| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
28 Sep 2003 04:46:00 AM |
| Object: |
Vouchers Do NOT Improve Education System |
A recent U.S. Government Accounting Office reviewed a number of voucher
studies & found that there was no clear evidence that students in
private schools do better academically than students in public schools.
I got this from another newsgroup. It's a true to life testimony of the
dangers of government subsidized vouchers, there's no way I can say it
any better, so I had to share:
Abel
_________
BRITBRAT@webtv.net wrote:
I have told this story before, in another group;-) A few years ago, my
daughter's family moved to Little Rock Arkansas for a year.
Since she had heard all kinds of horror stories about the public school
system there,
She enrolled her daughter/my grandchild in a Private School. Since my
granddaughter, has always struggled to get just average grades in school
here,
We were all delighted, at the huge academic improvement she made almost
immediately, and the glowing report cards. We were all so happy with
her achievements, she had A's and A+ on just about every paper she
brought home.
Well the Year in Little Rock came to an end, and we welcomed back to
Maryland our new found Genius Granddaughter. Late August that year she
was sighted up to go back to her old public school.
Not two weeks went by, when her mother was summand to the school. My
Granddaughter was found to be a year behind her classmates, in all
subjects, and was told that if she could not do the work, she would have
to be sent back to the lower grade. Of course, we hustled and found her
a good tutor that worked diligently with her, and she rallied,
eventually working on grade level.
The moral of this story is.... Not all Private schools are good. Some
just want you to feel good, so you will keep paying that tuition. Not
to say that all Private Schools are bad, there are some excellent ones.
My worry is, that the type of Private School that my Granddaughter went
to, will pop up all over the place, when some enterprising crooked
individuals, figures out they can make a fortune, from kids with
vouchers. and the parents are suckered in to thinking that the kids are
doing so much better than they were before.
Absolutely no to vouchers, let's work and make improvements with the
schools we have, so all children get the education they need and
deserve.
"A child miseducated is a child lost":
JOHN F. KENNEDY (the youngest person to ever be elected U.S. President,
at the age of 43)
Educate yourself and go to these links:
http://www.buzzflash.com & http://www.moveon.org &
http://www.veteransforpeace.org & http://www.salon.com &
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/LiberalFAQ.htm &
http://www.barbrastreisand.com
.
|
|
| User: "Apache" |
|
| Title: Re: Vouchers Do NOT Improve Education System |
28 Sep 2003 08:13:24 AM |
|
|
wrote in news:8431-3F76ADD8-67@storefull-
2178.public.lawson.webtv.net:
The thing is it's not whether it's a private school or a public school.
The question is whether it's a school for the privileged sons and
daughters of the wealthy or not. If we allow school vouchers not one
underprivileged kid will be admitted to any of the traditional schools
used by the wealthy to shield their kids from the public education
system. I wonder how fast our public education system would be fixed if
all children had to attend public schools even the privileged?
A recent U.S. Government Accounting Office reviewed a number of voucher
studies & found that there was no clear evidence that students in
private schools do better academically than students in public schools.
I got this from another newsgroup. It's a true to life testimony of
the
dangers of government subsidized vouchers, there's no way I can say it
any better, so I had to share:
Abel
_________
BRITBRAT@webtv.net wrote:
I have told this story before, in another group;-) A few years ago, my
daughter's family moved to Little Rock Arkansas for a year.
Since she had heard all kinds of horror stories about the public school
system there,
She enrolled her daughter/my grandchild in a Private School. Since my
granddaughter, has always struggled to get just average grades in
school
here,
We were all delighted, at the huge academic improvement she made almost
immediately, and the glowing report cards. We were all so happy with
her achievements, she had A's and A+ on just about every paper she
brought home.
Well the Year in Little Rock came to an end, and we welcomed back to
Maryland our new found Genius Granddaughter. Late August that year she
was sighted up to go back to her old public school.
Not two weeks went by, when her mother was summand to the school. My
Granddaughter was found to be a year behind her classmates, in all
subjects, and was told that if she could not do the work, she would
have
to be sent back to the lower grade. Of course, we hustled and found
her
a good tutor that worked diligently with her, and she rallied,
eventually working on grade level.
The moral of this story is.... Not all Private schools are good. Some
just want you to feel good, so you will keep paying that tuition. Not
to say that all Private Schools are bad, there are some excellent ones.
My worry is, that the type of Private School that my Granddaughter went
to, will pop up all over the place, when some enterprising crooked
individuals, figures out they can make a fortune, from kids with
vouchers. and the parents are suckered in to thinking that the kids are
doing so much better than they were before.
Absolutely no to vouchers, let's work and make improvements with the
schools we have, so all children get the education they need and
deserve.
"A child miseducated is a child lost":
JOHN F. KENNEDY (the youngest person to ever be elected U.S. President,
at the age of 43)
Educate yourself and go to these links:
http://www.buzzflash.com & http://www.moveon.org &
http://www.veteransforpeace.org & http://www.salon.com &
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/LiberalFAQ.htm &
http://www.barbrastreisand.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Vouchers Do NOT Improve Education System |
28 Sep 2003 07:47:48 PM |
|
|
Apache <Where@AmI.com> wrote: =A0=A0
If we allow school vouchers, not one
underprivileged kid will be admitted to any
of the traditional schools used by the
wealthy to shield their kids from the public
education system. I wonder how fast our
public education system would be fixed if
all children had to attend public schools
even the privileged?
To some extent, we already DO have that now. For the most part,
children of the priviledged ARE attending public schools. That's why the
issue of education is in the limelight now. We have some of the best
public schools in the world, as well as a few problem ones. Instead of
focusing on having more of the good ones, we have been focusing instead
on this silly voucher thing that will defund the already underfunded
public schools.
The public schools which have a large number of physically and
emotionally handicapped students, and a large number of immigrant and
minority students, these are the schools that are woefully underfunded
when you think about the extra needs that they have. Such schools
SHOULD be funded more, since it costs more to educate this groups which
is inherently under-educated. If these schools were funded properly to
meet their extra needs, then they wouldn't have any problems either.
BTW, I've seen both sides, I attended High School in the inner city of
Chicago, and I also went to the same public High School that Hillary
Clinton went to (Maine East High School) in my senior year. Maine East
High School is in a very rich suburb of Chicago, so you can imagine that
virtually no immigrants or handicapped students or any minorities
existed there. So the administrators had it easy, but the standards
were quite high there as well & it was well funded. I remember that it
was such a good school that when I went to College after that, the
College's textbooks were actually dumbed down in comparison.
Private schools are not any better than public schools, but they leave
that impression. Because private schools discriminate, they don't
normally allow admittance to those students who are difficult to
educate. And that means that the handicapped, the poor, the
undereducated, immigrants, & certain minorities are just flat out
discriminated against and denied admission. So the private schools have
a stacked deck of students who are already well educated to begin with.
This is like a "special Hospital" that denies admittance to people who
are actually sick or in need of medical care. If there was such a
Hospital, it would be disingenious of our government to then boast that
this "special Hospital" is somehow superior to public Hospitals that
admits everyone, sick and all, and then use this phony health statistic
to proceed to defund regular public Hospitals. The Republicans would
disingenously argue that regular Hospitals have too high a mortality
rate, in order to finance that "special Hospital" that has a supposedly
better track record of saving lives. This is a good analogy, because it
is exactly the kind of argument and tactic they are using to undermine
our public schools.
Think about it.
Check out the following article, I got it from the Sept. 25th issue of
USA TODAY, it's right on target:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-09-24-oppose_x.htm
ABANDON RISKY 'EXPERIMENT'
By Ralph Neas
In the coming days, Congress will be debating a private-school voucher
program for the District of Columbia. In spite of the rhetoric of
voucher supporters, this bill offers false hope to low-income students.
First, District parents may frequently find that participating voucher
schools have pulled in their "welcome" mats. The bill actually permits
private schools that receive tax dollars to reject students on the basis
of gender, disability status, limited English proficiency and other
factors.
Second, vouchers do not raise student achievement. After reviewing a
number of voucher studies, the U.S. Government Accounting Office found
that there was no clear evidence that students in private schools do
better academically than students in public schools.
In the end, using tax dollars to send a handful of students to private
schools will only leave the vast majority of students behind in
financially deprived public schools. Promises by the White House to
provide additional funds to the District's public schools mean very
little at a time when the administration has underfunded by $9 billion
the No Child Left Behind Act, the new federal school reform law, and
proposed deep cuts in other critical education programs.
Ironically, although the Bush administration and Congress have made
accountability the cornerstone of No Child Left Behind, schools that
accept tax dollars under the voucher bill would not be required to meet
any of the new law's mandates.
Recent experiences with voucher programs highlight why accountability is
so important. A religious voucher school in Ohio was allowed to operate
for two years despite the fact that its 110-year-old building had no
fire alarm or sprinkler system. Investigators found lead-based paint,
which can cause brain damage in children, at a level eight times greater
than considered safe. Eight of the school's 12 instructors lacked state
teaching licenses, and one had been convicted of first-degree murder.
While acts of fraud or mismanagement can occur in any school, they are
less likely to occur in schools that are legally required to abide by
state and federal education standards and other laws and procedures
designed to keep these schools accountable to parents, their community
and taxpayers.
Most public schools do an excellent job educating children. While some
are struggling to educate all of their students, they can improve, and
many of them are showing immediate improvement through the use of
smaller classes, after-school programs and other common-sense reforms.
Rather than experiment with vouchers on children in the District of
Columbia, Congress and the president should focus their attention on
securing a high-quality public education for every child. That will take
resources, not rhetoric.
Ralph Neas is president of People for the American Way, a civil
liberties group.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-09-24-oppose_x.htm
"A child miseducated is a child lost":
JOHN F. KENNEDY (the youngest person to ever be elected U.S. President,
at the age of 43)
Educate yourself and go to these links:
http://www.buzzflash.com & http://www.moveon.org &
http://www.veteransforpeace.org & http://www.salon.com &
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/LiberalFAQ.htm &
http://www.barbrastreisand.com
.
|
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|
| User: "Douglas Otis" |
|
| Title: Re: Vouchers Do NOT Improve Education System |
28 Sep 2003 09:31:04 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Apache <Where@AmI.com> wrote:
If we allow school vouchers, not one
underprivileged kid will be admitted to any
of the traditional schools used by the
wealthy to shield their kids from the public
education system. I wonder how fast our
public education system would be fixed if
all children had to attend public schools
even the privileged?
To some extent, we already DO have that now. For the most part,
children of the priviledged ARE attending public schools. That's why the
issue of education is in the limelight now. We have some of the best
public schools in the world, as well as a few problem ones. Instead of
focusing on having more of the good ones, we have been focusing instead
on this silly voucher thing that will defund the already underfunded
public schools.
The public schools which have a large number of physically and
emotionally handicapped students, and a large number of immigrant and
minority students, these are the schools that are woefully underfunded
when you think about the extra needs that they have. Such schools
SHOULD be funded more, since it costs more to educate this groups which
is inherently under-educated. If these schools were funded properly to
meet their extra needs, then they wouldn't have any problems either.
BTW, I've seen both sides, I attended High School in the inner city of
Chicago, and I also went to the same public High School that Hillary
Clinton went to (Maine East High School) in my senior year. Maine East
High School is in a very rich suburb of Chicago, so you can imagine that
virtually no immigrants or handicapped students or any minorities
existed there. So the administrators had it easy, but the standards
were quite high there as well & it was well funded. I remember that it
was such a good school that when I went to College after that, the
College's textbooks were actually dumbed down in comparison.
Private schools are not any better than public schools, but they leave
that impression. Because private schools discriminate, they don't
normally allow admittance to those students who are difficult to
educate. And that means that the handicapped, the poor, the
undereducated, immigrants, & certain minorities are just flat out
discriminated against and denied admission. So the private schools have
a stacked deck of students who are already well educated to begin with.
This is like a "special Hospital" that denies admittance to people who
are actually sick or in need of medical care. If there was such a
Hospital, it would be disingenious of our government to then boast that
this "special Hospital" is somehow superior to public Hospitals that
admits everyone, sick and all, and then use this phony health statistic
to proceed to defund regular public Hospitals. The Republicans would
disingenously argue that regular Hospitals have too high a mortality
rate, in order to finance that "special Hospital" that has a supposedly
better track record of saving lives. This is a good analogy, because it
is exactly the kind of argument and tactic they are using to undermine
our public schools.
Think about it.
Check out the following article, I got it from the Sept. 25th issue of
USA TODAY, it's right on target:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-09-24-oppose_x.htm
ABANDON RISKY 'EXPERIMENT'
By Ralph Neas
In the coming days, Congress will be debating a private-school voucher
program for the District of Columbia. In spite of the rhetoric of
voucher supporters, this bill offers false hope to low-income students.
First, District parents may frequently find that participating voucher
schools have pulled in their "welcome" mats. The bill actually permits
private schools that receive tax dollars to reject students on the basis
of gender, disability status, limited English proficiency and other
factors.
Second, vouchers do not raise student achievement. After reviewing a
number of voucher studies, the U.S. Government Accounting Office found
that there was no clear evidence that students in private schools do
better academically than students in public schools.
In the end, using tax dollars to send a handful of students to private
schools will only leave the vast majority of students behind in
financially deprived public schools. Promises by the White House to
provide additional funds to the District's public schools mean very
little at a time when the administration has underfunded by $9 billion
the No Child Left Behind Act, the new federal school reform law, and
proposed deep cuts in other critical education programs.
Ironically, although the Bush administration and Congress have made
accountability the cornerstone of No Child Left Behind, schools that
accept tax dollars under the voucher bill would not be required to meet
any of the new law's mandates.
Recent experiences with voucher programs highlight why accountability is
so important. A religious voucher school in Ohio was allowed to operate
for two years despite the fact that its 110-year-old building had no
fire alarm or sprinkler system. Investigators found lead-based paint,
which can cause brain damage in children, at a level eight times greater
than considered safe. Eight of the school's 12 instructors lacked state
teaching licenses, and one had been convicted of first-degree murder.
While acts of fraud or mismanagement can occur in any school, they are
less likely to occur in schools that are legally required to abide by
state and federal education standards and other laws and procedures
designed to keep these schools accountable to parents, their community
and taxpayers.
Most public schools do an excellent job educating children. While some
are struggling to educate all of their students, they can improve, and
many of them are showing immediate improvement through the use of
smaller classes, after-school programs and other common-sense reforms.
Rather than experiment with vouchers on children in the District of
Columbia, Congress and the president should focus their attention on
securing a high-quality public education for every child. That will take
resources, not rhetoric.
Ralph Neas is president of People for the American Way, a civil
liberties group.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-09-24-oppose_x.htm
"A child miseducated is a child lost":
JOHN F. KENNEDY (the youngest person to ever be elected U.S. President,
at the age of 43)
There is a problem within public schools that should be addressed to
remove valid concerns. Private accommodations within public schools
should enable parents control over their children's endocritnation and
discipline.
Since the 1948 SC ruling, all private education must be done off
school grounds was an over-reaction to a complaint about unwanted
exposure to affinities created by private religious classes. Offenses
such as school approval of private teachers and general fees applied
to private classes made the case. This clearly overstepped
separation.
Are vouchers the only solution or, for one class out of 5, can the
parent opt to pay for private instruction? Today, most states use a
Released Time provision in response to this SC ruling to allow a
private class to be held one day a week off of school grounds. This
is disruptive to a student's normal public education and is seldom
used. Imagine public schools sanction an area to be rented by private
groups to allow the student's schedule to mesh with private
instruction at this adjunct facility.
A parent would pay the rent of this room and the cost of the
instructor. This would allow the parent a proxy observer into their
child's welfare within the public school system as well as provide
requisite moral training only properly handled within private
instruction. Once the parent bears a portion of the expense, greater
participation should be expected. Rather than seeing this as a camel's
nose under the tent, it should be seen as a logical means of providing
moral and spiritual guidance children are lacking. The parent would
have full choice in the matter.
Separation should not be viewed as freedom from religion, but rather
as freedom to determine the religion taught to their child. Moral
guidance and inspiration offered by a private instructor could never
be matched that of a civil servant. A civil servant is not free to
make and break rules to ensure the misbehaving student receives no
quarter. In most public schools, as long as the student does not act
out, they are free to fail or even not attend.
A private instructor paid directly by the parent will take a far
greater interest in the outcome. This interest would apply to the
performance within the public sector as well to win the parents trust
and confidence. The public schools would require less funding as each
student enrolled in this private classes would reduce the burden 20%.
Vouchers offer the problem of no immediate alternative facilities for
a transition. This partial private instruction within sanctioned
regions of the public school campus would allow full utilization of
present public facilities while still offering the parent greater
options in receiving the help they need for their child.
.
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| User: "Apache" |
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| Title: Re: Vouchers Do NOT Improve Education System |
28 Sep 2003 09:39:47 PM |
|
|
wrote in news:6142-3F778134-389@storefull-
2174.public.lawson.webtv.net:
I see your point and I tend to agree. I went to school all over as a
military dependant. I spent the last two years of high school in Georgia
after coming out of New York and insured my children never attended
school in the south. Both my kids went to school in Manhattan, Kansas and
had good educations - my daughter got a scholarship to University of
Chicago and my son went to George Washington University. They would have
never had that opportunity if they had attended school in Georgia.
I think our definition of privileged is different. The folks I consider
privileged are the folks at the top 1% who never cross our paths. I would
doubt their kids go to a public school. My brother makes around
250,000/year and his kids attend public school. But then he is not, in my
mind, privileged.
Apache <Where@AmI.com> wrote:
If we allow school vouchers, not one
underprivileged kid will be admitted to any
of the traditional schools used by the
wealthy to shield their kids from the public
education system. I wonder how fast our
public education system would be fixed if
all children had to attend public schools
even the privileged?
To some extent, we already DO have that now. For the most part,
children of the priviledged ARE attending public schools. That's why
the
issue of education is in the limelight now. We have some of the best
public schools in the world, as well as a few problem ones. Instead of
focusing on having more of the good ones, we have been focusing instead
on this silly voucher thing that will defund the already underfunded
public schools.
The public schools which have a large number of physically and
emotionally handicapped students, and a large number of immigrant and
minority students, these are the schools that are woefully underfunded
when you think about the extra needs that they have. Such schools
SHOULD be funded more, since it costs more to educate this groups which
is inherently under-educated. If these schools were funded properly
to
meet their extra needs, then they wouldn't have any problems either.
BTW, I've seen both sides, I attended High School in the inner city of
Chicago, and I also went to the same public High School that Hillary
Clinton went to (Maine East High School) in my senior year. Maine East
High School is in a very rich suburb of Chicago, so you can imagine
that
virtually no immigrants or handicapped students or any minorities
existed there. So the administrators had it easy, but the standards
were quite high there as well & it was well funded. I remember that it
was such a good school that when I went to College after that, the
College's textbooks were actually dumbed down in comparison.
Private schools are not any better than public schools, but they leave
that impression. Because private schools discriminate, they don't
normally allow admittance to those students who are difficult to
educate. And that means that the handicapped, the poor, the
undereducated, immigrants, & certain minorities are just flat out
discriminated against and denied admission. So the private schools
have
a stacked deck of students who are already well educated to begin with.
This is like a "special Hospital" that denies admittance to people who
are actually sick or in need of medical care. If there was such a
Hospital, it would be disingenious of our government to then boast that
this "special Hospital" is somehow superior to public Hospitals that
admits everyone, sick and all, and then use this phony health statistic
to proceed to defund regular public Hospitals. The Republicans would
disingenously argue that regular Hospitals have too high a mortality
rate, in order to finance that "special Hospital" that has a supposedly
better track record of saving lives. This is a good analogy, because
it
is exactly the kind of argument and tactic they are using to undermine
our public schools.
Think about it.
Check out the following article, I got it from the Sept. 25th issue of
USA TODAY, it's right on target:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-09-24-oppose_x.htm
ABANDON RISKY 'EXPERIMENT'
By Ralph Neas
In the coming days, Congress will be debating a private-school voucher
program for the District of Columbia. In spite of the rhetoric of
voucher supporters, this bill offers false hope to low-income students.
First, District parents may frequently find that participating voucher
schools have pulled in their "welcome" mats. The bill actually permits
private schools that receive tax dollars to reject students on the
basis
of gender, disability status, limited English proficiency and other
factors.
Second, vouchers do not raise student achievement. After reviewing a
number of voucher studies, the U.S. Government Accounting Office found
that there was no clear evidence that students in private schools do
better academically than students in public schools.
In the end, using tax dollars to send a handful of students to private
schools will only leave the vast majority of students behind in
financially deprived public schools. Promises by the White House to
provide additional funds to the District's public schools mean very
little at a time when the administration has underfunded by $9 billion
the No Child Left Behind Act, the new federal school reform law, and
proposed deep cuts in other critical education programs.
Ironically, although the Bush administration and Congress have made
accountability the cornerstone of No Child Left Behind, schools that
accept tax dollars under the voucher bill would not be required to meet
any of the new law's mandates.
Recent experiences with voucher programs highlight why accountability
is
so important. A religious voucher school in Ohio was allowed to
operate
for two years despite the fact that its 110-year-old building had no
fire alarm or sprinkler system. Investigators found lead-based paint,
which can cause brain damage in children, at a level eight times
greater
than considered safe. Eight of the school's 12 instructors lacked
state
teaching licenses, and one had been convicted of first-degree murder.
While acts of fraud or mismanagement can occur in any school, they are
less likely to occur in schools that are legally required to abide by
state and federal education standards and other laws and procedures
designed to keep these schools accountable to parents, their community
and taxpayers.
Most public schools do an excellent job educating children. While some
are struggling to educate all of their students, they can improve, and
many of them are showing immediate improvement through the use of
smaller classes, after-school programs and other common-sense reforms.
Rather than experiment with vouchers on children in the District of
Columbia, Congress and the president should focus their attention on
securing a high-quality public education for every child. That will
take
resources, not rhetoric.
Ralph Neas is president of People for the American Way, a civil
liberties group.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-09-24-oppose_x.htm
"A child miseducated is a child lost":
JOHN F. KENNEDY (the youngest person to ever be elected U.S. President,
at the age of 43)
Educate yourself and go to these links:
http://www.buzzflash.com & http://www.moveon.org &
http://www.veteransforpeace.org & http://www.salon.com &
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/LiberalFAQ.htm &
http://www.barbrastreisand.com
.
|
|
|
|
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Vouchers Do NOT Improve Education System |
28 Sep 2003 06:40:40 AM |
|
|
Now, just how would someone do a "study" to prove such a thing?
"Education," after all, is intended to prepare one for life, and at it's
very basic level, teach one to think logically, for oneself.
If your children come home from school spouting all the "politically
correct" slogans, and the false history and class
hate taught in public schools, many of us consider this brain washing, not
education.
"Studies" by "experts" are an old leftist method to overawe the average
person, who would never think of challenging an "expert."
If you want your kids "educated" to await the next political directive of
truth from on high, send them to public schools. If they accept the revealed
"truth" they learn there, they will get very good grades. But they will
never be truly educated.
<AbelMalcolm@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8431-3F76ADD8-67@storefull-2178.public.lawson.webtv.net...
A recent U.S. Government Accounting Office reviewed a number of voucher
studies & found that there was no clear evidence that students in
private schools do better academically than students in public schools.
I got this from another newsgroup. It's a true to life testimony of the
dangers of government subsidized vouchers, there's no way I can say it
any better, so I had to share:
Abel
_________
BRITBRAT@webtv.net wrote:
I have told this story before, in another group;-) A few years ago, my
daughter's family moved to Little Rock Arkansas for a year.
Since she had heard all kinds of horror stories about the public school
system there,
She enrolled her daughter/my grandchild in a Private School. Since my
granddaughter, has always struggled to get just average grades in school
here,
We were all delighted, at the huge academic improvement she made almost
immediately, and the glowing report cards. We were all so happy with
her achievements, she had A's and A+ on just about every paper she
brought home.
Well the Year in Little Rock came to an end, and we welcomed back to
Maryland our new found Genius Granddaughter. Late August that year she
was sighted up to go back to her old public school.
Not two weeks went by, when her mother was summand to the school. My
Granddaughter was found to be a year behind her classmates, in all
subjects, and was told that if she could not do the work, she would have
to be sent back to the lower grade. Of course, we hustled and found her
a good tutor that worked diligently with her, and she rallied,
eventually working on grade level.
The moral of this story is.... Not all Private schools are good. Some
just want you to feel good, so you will keep paying that tuition. Not
to say that all Private Schools are bad, there are some excellent ones.
My worry is, that the type of Private School that my Granddaughter went
to, will pop up all over the place, when some enterprising crooked
individuals, figures out they can make a fortune, from kids with
vouchers. and the parents are suckered in to thinking that the kids are
doing so much better than they were before.
Absolutely no to vouchers, let's work and make improvements with the
schools we have, so all children get the education they need and
deserve.
"A child miseducated is a child lost":
JOHN F. KENNEDY (the youngest person to ever be elected U.S. President,
at the age of 43)
Educate yourself and go to these links:
http://www.buzzflash.com & http://www.moveon.org &
http://www.veteransforpeace.org & http://www.salon.com &
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/LiberalFAQ.htm &
http://www.barbrastreisand.com
.
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| User: "suds mcduff" |
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| Title: Re: Vouchers Do NOT Improve Education System |
29 Sep 2003 05:40:43 PM |
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<nshinede@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:YMzdb.36549$uJ2.12502@fe3.columbus.rr.com...
Now, just how would someone do a "study" to prove such a thing?
"Education," after all, is intended to prepare one for life, and at it's
very basic level, teach one to think logically, for oneself.
If your children come home from school spouting all the "politically
correct" slogans,
-----------For example?
and the false history
----Examples? Both my kids go to public schools, I have their textbooks
available for review.Please point out the false history in "A History of the
United States" by Boorstin and Kelly, Prentice Hall edition, so I can inform
the school board of the pack of lies within.
and class
hate taught in public schools,
----------Cites?
..
many of us consider this brain washing, not
education.
-------Ah yes, and religious schooling offers open minded study of
science,literature and philosophy.
"Studies" by "experts" are an old leftist method to overawe the average
person, who would never think of challenging an "expert."
----And the new,rightest method is to adhere to amature sources with no
study whatsoever?Spare us.
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| User: "Mani Deli" |
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| Title: Re: Vouchers Do NOT Improve Education System |
29 Sep 2003 05:12:06 PM |
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:46:00 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Absolutely no to vouchers, let's work and make improvements with the
schools we have, so all children get the education they need and
deserve.
The aim of the Republican party of the rich is to keep America stupid
and ill informed. Our Education President is doing a lot to implement
this. Check it out.
You learn, no economics (you might just find out how the system really
works) no civics (you might learn how politicians ***** the system and
avoid the Constitution.) I can suggest lots more.
Among what you will learn is how to fit in without annoying the rich
con men running the place, the holiness of the Flag, god and the
pledge and, the goodness of superstition and the joys of ignorance.
Vouchers will greatly help in this. Its easy. Take away the money from
public schools and of course steal some and then point out how crappy
these public institutions have become. Any average dimwit can see
this.
Now any con-man can start a private school and will along with every
assorted religious fanatic. The rabble who don't care about education
can even collect kick-backs from these vouchers and help in the keep
'em stupid campaign.
Anyone who thinks this isn't done deliberately is off on the American
Dream. Perhaps some day the nation will wake up and face the American
Reality.
Tired of Modern Art? See-
http://www3.sympatico.ca/manideli/
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| User: "Louis Owen" |
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| Title: Re: Vouchers Do NOT Improve Education System |
28 Sep 2003 05:53:31 AM |
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School performances: Part III
Thomas Sowell
September 26, 2003
Many of the pronouncements coming from those who run our public schools
range from fallacies to frauds. The new book "No Excuses" by Abigail and
Stephan Thernstrom exposes a number of these self-serving lies.
You may have heard how hard it is to find enough teachers -- and therefore
how necessary it is to raise salaries, in order to attract more people into
this field. One example can demonstrate what is wrong with this picture,
though there are innumerable other examples.
A young man who graduated summa ***** laude from elite Williams College
decided that he wanted to be a teacher. He sent letters and resumes to eight
different school districts. Not one gave him even the courtesy of a reply.
Does that sound like there is a teacher's shortage? Moreover, any number of
other highly qualified people have had the same experience.
The joker in the deal is that, no matter how highly qualified you are, your
desire to become a teacher is not likely to get off the ground unless you
have jumped through the bureaucratic hoops that keep people out of this
field -- thereby protecting the jobs of unionized incompetents who are
already in our schools.
The most important of these hoops is taking unbelievably dreary and stupid
courses in education. Using these costly and time-consuming courses as a
barrier, those in the education establishment "maintain low standards and
high barriers at the same time," as Secretary of Education Rod Paige has
aptly put it.
Factual studies show no correlation between taking these courses and
successful teaching. Private schools are able to get good teachers by hiring
people who never took any such courses. That is where our Williams graduate
finally found a job.
The very people in the education establishment who maintain barriers to keep
out teachers are the ones constantly telling us what a shortage of teachers
there is -- and how more money is needed. This is a scam that has worked for
years and will probably work for more years to come.
Then there are the "studies prove" scams. According to the education
establishment, studies prove that Head Start helps poor children's
educational performance, small classes lead to higher test scores, and
busing black children to white schools produces educational benefits due to
"diversity."
The quality of many of these studies is as unbelievably bad as the quality
of courses in education.
Here is a common pattern: If you do 20 studies comparing the effect that A
has on B, you may find that in 18 of those studies there is no correlation
between A and B. In one of the other two, you may find that more A is
followed by more B. And in the other, more A is followed by less B. Overall,
still no correlation.
Depending on what the education establishment wants, they can seize upon the
one study out of 20 that showed more A leading to more B and burst into the
media with it. If the conclusion of that one study fits in with the media
vision of the world, then it may be trumpeted across the land as "proof."
The Head Start program is a classic example. Anyone who expresses any
skepticism about claims that Head Start is a great success will be denounced
as someone who doesn't "care" about the low-income and minority children
that this program supposedly helps. One of the great propaganda tricks is to
change questions of fact into questions of motives.
The Thernstroms show what feeble facts there are behind this program that
has cost billions of dollars. Look for them to be denounced for being
heartless, if not racist. But don't expect advocates of Head Start to engage
in a serious discussion of facts.
It is much the same story when it comes to claims that "studies prove" that
small classes lead to better education. The Thernstroms show cases where
class sizes as small as 12 led to no better results when the students were
tested.
Ordering students bussed from their own neighborhoods for the sake of racial
balance has similarly failed to produce the much-trumpeted educational
benefits.
The time is long overdue to start looking at facts instead of listening to
rhetoric. Reading "No Excuses" is a start.
Cheers
Lou
<AbelMalcolm@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8431-3F76ADD8-67@storefull-2178.public.lawson.webtv.net...
A recent U.S. Government Accounting Office reviewed a number of voucher
studies & found that there was no clear evidence that students in
private schools do better academically than students in public schools.
I got this from another newsgroup. It's a true to life testimony of the
dangers of government subsidized vouchers, there's no way I can say it
any better, so I had to share:
Abel
_________
BRITBRAT@webtv.net wrote:
I have told this story before, in another group;-) A few years ago, my
daughter's family moved to Little Rock Arkansas for a year.
Since she had heard all kinds of horror stories about the public school
system there,
She enrolled her daughter/my grandchild in a Private School. Since my
granddaughter, has always struggled to get just average grades in school
here,
We were all delighted, at the huge academic improvement she made almost
immediately, and the glowing report cards. We were all so happy with
her achievements, she had A's and A+ on just about every paper she
brought home.
Well the Year in Little Rock came to an end, and we welcomed back to
Maryland our new found Genius Granddaughter. Late August that year she
was sighted up to go back to her old public school.
Not two weeks went by, when her mother was summand to the school. My
Granddaughter was found to be a year behind her classmates, in all
subjects, and was told that if she could not do the work, she would have
to be sent back to the lower grade. Of course, we hustled and found her
a good tutor that worked diligently with her, and she rallied,
eventually working on grade level.
The moral of this story is.... Not all Private schools are good. Some
just want you to feel good, so you will keep paying that tuition. Not
to say that all Private Schools are bad, there are some excellent ones.
My worry is, that the type of Private School that my Granddaughter went
to, will pop up all over the place, when some enterprising crooked
individuals, figures out they can make a fortune, from kids with
vouchers. and the parents are suckered in to thinking that the kids are
doing so much better than they were before.
Absolutely no to vouchers, let's work and make improvements with the
schools we have, so all children get the education they need and
deserve.
"A child miseducated is a child lost":
JOHN F. KENNEDY (the youngest person to ever be elected U.S. President,
at the age of 43)
Educate yourself and go to these links:
http://www.buzzflash.com & http://www.moveon.org &
http://www.veteransforpeace.org & http://www.salon.com &
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/LiberalFAQ.htm &
http://www.barbrastreisand.com
.
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