"Carl" <crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote in message
news:oIHEg.13$dh.7@newsfe12.lga...

While this is very well written (I didn't realize it was written by a
professional writer until I reached the end), and parts of it make much
sense, it is, after all, just rhetoric and offers no substantive

alternative

solutions.

First of all, it fails to recognize such things as that the attack on the
American embassy, the USS Cole attack, and the WTC attack, to name just a
few, all occurred before there existed a "war on terror" metaphor.
Apparently, in the eyes of extremists, we've been doing things "wrong"
for

a

long time.

Secondly, it fails to consider that the thought processes, philosophies,

and

motivations of religious fundamentalist extremists might be far different
than "western" or other more secular philosophies can comprhend. It is,
after all, beyond my personal comprehension that people can kill people
in
the name of God, believe that doing so will more ensure their entrance

into

heaven, and that God is actually sanctioning their deeds. It is beyond my
comprehension that any religious leader can attest to that he understands
God or has been authorized to speak for Him.

I, by the way, am not religious at all, just for clarification.

Thirdly, it presumes that objective news reaches the citizens of the
countries harboring or supporting terrorism. Unfortunately, unlike the
western world which at least makes a pretense of separating news agencies
from government ones and has as one of its underlying premises the
freedom
of the press and speech, this is not the case in most of these countries
which often have a government sponsored news agency and whose news is
provided unabashedly through a filter. You cannot tell me that Al
Jazeera
News makes any pretense of objectivity in its reporting. You cannot tell

me

seriously that opposition speech in those countries is not suppressed
harshly.

Yeah right, you really think the Western media does what you seem to think
it does, you're living in cloud cuckoo land if you do.

Redman

Expansion of Democracy, Foreign Political Intervention or War on Terror
Whatever! The problem is not extremists, but the fact the normal populus
is now involved, active and supportive on attacks against the US.

You over-complicate the *****. It's more of a Governmental Authority
trying to gain control of Religious Authority. Religion does play a part
but it for the most part it is "the intrusion and influence" of a foreign
government (US) on Middle Eastern countries (as well as African and South
America). Columbia has a great share if anti-American Terrorist activity
also but we seem to ignore much of what we diddle with in our Southern
Hemisphere.

Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Iran and Iraq are all failures of our own
puppet regimes, foreirn policy and our Democracy agenda. The Shah made
Saddam look like a Sunday School Teacher. We even supported Saddam in it's
war with Iran after the Iranians got rid of the Shaw. Our covert
assistance of Al Qaeda in Afghans war with Russia, for the control of
regional oil resources. The support of the Military coup in Pakistan. The
intoduction of Nuclear Weapons and WMD's in what was a rather peaceful,
basically an unarmed region of the Middle East with the Forced Zionist
quasi-democracy in a Muslim region.

America itself has the same problem here with the Christian Right fighting
for control and dominance of the United States to control every issue to
force the modification of the Constitution to be Bible freindly. Smoking,
Drinking, Sex, Abortion all issues dominated by the Christian extremist
forcing their views and beliefs upon all Americans. Even protected issues
such as Religion, I find it funny that the FBI was naming polygamists as
the Top Ten Most Wanted. Having multiple wives is worldy accepted, I have
enough with my hands full with one, but why is it against the law here, it
became very popular and simply threatened the Mormon and Christian
Authorities!

Your point of "Freedom of Speech" is misguided, WE think we have it but we
don't, WE think they don't have it but do. Everything in America is
tightly controlled, you can't do squat without paying a fee and getting
approval of the State. Marriage Kids, Cars, Phones, etc etc. You can't
yell fire in a theater here or there, if you speak out here they
photograph you, then you get profiled and documented. The Right of
Assembly now limited to the States approval. So what Rights do you have
not a whole lot. Even under some of the most extreme regimes, you could
get away with saying the big guy was a stupid pig, it became an issue and
a problem only when the CIA was backing an oppostition, did you ever see
the authority step in to stiffle Free Speech not because it was free but
because it was bought and paid for by American Taxpayers better known as
propaganda. That was a great claim by every President since Castro threw
out the Casino's and ***** houses America was building in Cuba, when we
flooded the airwaves with anti-castro *****. Castro is anti-free-speech
because he jammed it???? Get real!





God like Terrorism is just a word they like to use!



"Carl" <crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote in message
news:oIHEg.13$dh.7@newsfe12.lga...

While this is very well written (I didn't realize it was written by a
professional writer until I reached the end), and parts of it make much
sense, it is, after all, just rhetoric and offers no substantive
alternative solutions.

First of all, it fails to recognize such things as that the attack on the
American embassy, the USS Cole attack, and the WTC attack, to name just a
few, all occurred before there existed a "war on terror" metaphor.
Apparently, in the eyes of extremists, we've been doing things "wrong"
for a long time.

Secondly, it fails to consider that the thought processes, philosophies,
and motivations of religious fundamentalist extremists might be far
different than "western" or other more secular philosophies can
comprhend. It is, after all, beyond my personal comprehension that people
can kill people in the name of God, believe that doing so will more
ensure their entrance into heaven, and that God is actually sanctioning
their deeds. It is beyond my comprehension that any religious leader can
attest to that he understands God or has been authorized to speak for
Him.

I, by the way, am not religious at all, just for clarification.

Thirdly, it presumes that objective news reaches the citizens of the
countries harboring or supporting terrorism. Unfortunately, unlike the
western world which at least makes a pretense of separating news agencies
from government ones and has as one of its underlying premises the
freedom of the press and speech, this is not the case in most of these
countries which often have a government sponsored news agency and whose
news is provided unabashedly through a filter. You cannot tell me that
Al Jazeera News makes any pretense of objectivity in its reporting. You
cannot tell me seriously that opposition speech in those countries is not
suppressed harshly.

Therefore, imho, attempting to understand the problem in terms of western
thought, or believe that solutions can come from the western cultures'
idea of negotiation/compromise is to possibly completely underestimate
the nature of the "enemy", and can, and will be, a most fatal error.

<know_buddee@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155741515.388167.161150@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

"War on terror" is a false metaphor


The war on terror is a false metaphor that has led to counterproductive
and self-defeating policies. Five years after 9/11, a misleading figure
of speech applied literally has unleashed a real war fought on several
fronts -- Iraq, Gaza, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Somalia -- a war that has
killed thousands of innocent civilians and enraged millions around the
world. Yet al Qaeda has not been subdued; a plot that could have
claimed more victims than 9/11 has just been foiled by the vigilance of
British intelligence.

Unfortunately, the "war on terror" metaphor was uncritically accepted
by the American public as the obvious response to 9/11. It is now
widely admitted that the invasion of Iraq was a blunder. But the war on
terror remains the frame into which American policy has to fit. Most
Democratic politicians subscribe to it for fear of being tagged as weak
on defense.

What makes the war on terror self-defeating?

· First, war by its very nature creates innocent victims. A war waged
against terrorists is even more likely to claim innocent victims
because terrorists tend to keep their whereabouts hidden. The deaths,
injuries and humiliation of civilians generate rage and resentment
among their families and communities that in turn serves to build
support for terrorists.

· Second, terrorism is an abstraction. It lumps together all
political movements that use terrorist tactics. Al Qaeda, Hamas,
Hezbollah, the Sunni insurrection and the Mahdi army in Iraq are very
different forces, but President Bush's global war on terror prevents us
from differentiating between them and dealing with them accordingly. It
inhibits much-needed negotiations with Iran and Syria because they are
states that support terrorist groups.

· Third, the war on terror emphasizes military action while most
territorial conflicts require political solutions. And, as the British
have shown, al Qaeda is best dealt with by good intelligence. The war
on terror increases the terrorist threat and makes the task of the
intelligence agencies more difficult. Osama bin Laden and Ayman
al-Zawahiri are still at large; we need to focus on finding them, and
preventing attacks like the one foiled in England.

· Fourth, the war on terror drives a wedge between "us" and "them."
We are innocent victims. They are perpetrators. But we fail to notice
that we also become perpetrators in the process; the rest of the world,
however, does notice. That is how such a wide gap has arisen between
America and much of the world.

Taken together, these four factors ensure that the war on terror cannot
be won. An endless war waged against an unseen enemy is doing great
damage to our power and prestige abroad and to our open society at
home. It has led to a dangerous extension of executive powers; it has
tarnished our adherence to universal human rights; it has inhibited the
critical process that is at the heart of an open society; and it has
cost a lot of money. Most importantly, it has diverted attention from
other urgent tasks that require American leadership, such as finishing
the job we so correctly began in Afghanistan, addressing the looming
global energy crisis, and dealing with nuclear proliferation.

With American influence at low ebb, the world is in danger of sliding
into a vicious circle of escalating violence. We can escape it only if
we Americans repudiate the war on terror as a false metaphor. If we
persevere on the wrong course, the situation will continue to
deteriorate. It is not our will that is being tested, but our
understanding of reality. It is painful to admit that our current
predicaments are brought about by our own misconceptions. However, not
admitting it is bound to prove even more painful in the long run. The
strength of an open society lies in its ability to recognize and
correct its mistakes. This is the test that confronts us.

Excerpted from the Wall Street Journal Tuesday, August 15, 2006
"A Self-Defeating War"
By George Soros

===================

One way to help fight the real terrorists!
http://www.ImpeachBush.org

===================

for those who missed them:

Pictures of Destruction and Civilian Victims of the Anglo-American
Aggression in Iraq

These photos are only of a very tiny fraction of the thousands of Iraqi
Civilian Victims who have been terrorised, humiliated, injured, maimed
and killed through British and American bombing of civilian areas in
various cities of Iraq. Due to insecurity, independent reporters could
not and still can not reach many areas to photograph and report the
atrocities. Several independent reporters and journalists were
deliberately bombed to prevent them reporting the atrocities. We kindly
request Independent News Reporters to send us photos of the
Anglo-American atrocities in Iraq for inclusion on these pages.

Please note that some of these pictures are not suitable for small
children and those who have weak hearts.

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

=================

One way to help fight the real terrorists!
http://www.ImpeachBush.org

The so called "war" on terror - is a form of war on good people
everywhere. The worst criminals in the world are the billionaires who
control the american "news" media and a few bastards who work out of
the white house and pentagon.

Ultimately it's all about money and their insatiable greed. Peace is
not profitable and it's the #1 obstacle to war. War is extremely
profitable. If that were not the case there would be no war.

The soldiers mean well, but they are ignorant of the truth. Otherwise
they would not serve the ***** warmongers.

It's a tricky situation when you consider that anyone who stands in
forceful resistance to the American empire is labeled a "terrorist" by
the deception and greed based American Empire.

We must never forget the shock and awe - when the US dropped tens of
thousands of bombs on the good people Baghdad - a city of 6+ million
(more people than both Los Angeles & Houston together). Despite the
fact that the corrupt US news media proudly proclaimed that it was a
matter of the "empire striking back", it was terrorism. Thousands of
defenseless women and children were needlessly massacred and Americans
were encouraged to be proud of and to support Bush's so called 'war on
terror'.

By supporting the Bush regime, people are indeed supporting terrorism.
Most of them have been led to believe that the biggest terrorist regime
in the world is actually fighting terrorism, so I wouldn't call that
treason. They're simply guilty of being too gullible, of believing the
lies of the most spectacular propaganda system of all time, which is
based on unlimited greed.

RH

The soldiers mean well, but they are ignorant of the truth. Otherwise
they would not serve the ***** warmongers

The so called "war" on terror - is a form of war on good people
everywhere. The worst criminals in the world are the billionaires who
control the american "news" media and a few bastards who work out of
the white house and pentagon.

Ultimately it's all about money and their insatiable greed. Peace is
not profitable and it's the #1 obstacle to war. War is extremely
profitable. If that were not the case there would be no war.

The soldiers mean well, but they are ignorant of the truth. Otherwise
they would not serve the ***** warmongers.

It's a tricky situation when you consider that anyone who stands in
forceful resistance to the American empire is labeled a "terrorist" by
the deception and greed based American Empire.

We must never forget the shock and awe - when the US dropped tens of
thousands of bombs on the good people Baghdad - a city of 6+ million
(more people than both Los Angeles & Houston together). Despite the
fact that the corrupt US news media proudly proclaimed that it was a
matter of the "empire striking back", it was terrorism. Thousands of
defenseless women and children were needlessly massacred and Americans
were encouraged to be proud of and to support Bush's so called 'war on
terror'.

By supporting the Bush regime, people are indeed supporting terrorism.
Most of them have been led to believe that the biggest terrorist regime
in the world is actually fighting terrorism, so I wouldn't call that
treason. They're simply guilty of being too gullible, of believing the
lies of the most spectacular propaganda system of all time, which is
based on unlimited greed.

RH

=============

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a
revolutionary act."
George Orwell

George Orwell in "1984":
"It's not a matter of whether the war is not real, or if it is, Victory
[peace] is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to
be continuous [to last forever and to remain extremely profitable for
a few extremely rich men]. Hierarchical society [where the rich get
richer and the poor are pissed on] is only possible on the basis of
poverty and ignorance... In principle, the war effort is always planned
to keep [significant parts of] society on the brink of starvation [with
many struggling & barely getting by].

The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects [who are
intentionally kept down (poor), so enough of them will be desperate
enough to put on a uniform & fight]... [the war's] object is not the
victory... but to keep the very structure of [our deception & greed
based, totalitarian ***** led] society [where the super rich grow
fatter and fatter, while the average people - especially non-whites,
get pissed on] intact."

--------------------------------------------------------------------

"One reason that propaganda often works better on the educated than on
the uneducated is that educated people read more, so they receive more
propaganda. Another is that they have jobs in management, media, and
academia and therefore work in some capacity as agents of the
propaganda system--and they believe what the system expects them to
believe. By and large, they're part of the privileged elite, and share
the interests and perceptions of those in power. " Noam Chomsky

A good short article:
Propaganda American Style by Noam Chomsky
http://www.zpub.com/un/chomsky.html
================

Media Education Foundation
Elite Propaganda
THE MYTH OF THE LIBERAL MEDIA
The Propaganda Model of News

watch/listen to free 60 min. video:

Video
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6435.htm

Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky demolish one of the central tenets of
our political culture, the idea of the "liberal media." Instead,
utilizing a systematic model based on massive empirical research, they
reveal the manner in which the news media are so subordinated to
corporate and conservative interests that their function can only be
described as that of "elite propaganda."

"If you want to understand the way a system works, you look at its
institutional structure. How it is organized, how it is controlled,
how it is funded." -Noam Chomsky

"The Mainstream media really represent elite interests, and what the
propaganda model tries to do is stipulate a set of institutional
variables, reflecting this elite power, that very powerfully influence
the media." -Edward Herman

======================
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience.
Our problem is that numbers of people all over the world have obeyed
the dictates of the leaders of their government and have gone to war,
and millions have been killed because of this obedience. . . Our
problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of
poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem
is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves,
and all the while the grand thieves are running the country. That's our
problem." Howard Zinn, "Failure to Quit", p. 45

"We cannot afford to differ on the question of honesty if we expect our
republic permanently to endure. Honesty is not so much a credit as an
absolute prerequisite to efficient service to the public. Unless a man
is honest, we have no right to keep him in public life; it matters not
how brilliant his capacity." Theodore Roosevelt

" The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the
growth of private power to the point where it becomes stronger than the
democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism - ownership of
government by an individual, by a group or any controlling private
power." President Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and
causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the
war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high
places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavour
to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until
all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is
destroyed." Abraham Lincoln

=

"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible
government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to
the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy
alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first
task of the statesmanship of today." President Theodore Roosevelt

=

"We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most
completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world - no
longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a Government by
conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion
and duress of small groups of dominant men." Woodrow Wilson

===================

One way to help fight the real terrorists!
http://www.ImpeachBush.org

===================

for those who missed them:

Pictures of Destruction and Civilian Victims of the Anglo-American
Aggression in Iraq

These photos are only of a very tiny fraction of the thousands of Iraqi
Civilian Victims who have been terrorised, humiliated, injured, maimed
and killed through British and American bombing of civilian areas in
various cities of Iraq. Due to insecurity, independent reporters could
not and still can not reach many areas to photograph and report the
atrocities. Several independent reporters and journalists were
deliberately bombed to prevent them reporting the atrocities. We kindly
request Independent News Reporters to send us photos of the
Anglo-American atrocities in Iraq for inclusion on these pages.

Please note that some of these pictures are not suitable for small
children and those who have weak hearts.

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

=================

One way to help fight the real terrorists!
http://www.ImpeachBush.org

The so called "war" on terror - is a form of war on good people
everywhere. The worst criminals in the world are the billionaires who
control the american "news" media and a few bastards who work out of
the white house and pentagon.

Ultimately it's all about money and their insatiable greed. Peace is
not profitable and it's the #1 obstacle to war. War is extremely
profitable. If that were not the case there would be no war.

The soldiers mean well, but they are ignorant of the truth. Otherwise
they would not serve the ***** warmongers.

It's a tricky situation when you consider that anyone who stands in
forceful resistance to the American empire is labeled a "terrorist" by
the deception and greed based American Empire.

We must never forget the shock and awe - when the US dropped tens of
thousands of bombs on the good people Baghdad - a city of 6+ million
(more people than both Los Angeles & Houston together). Despite the
fact that the corrupt US news media proudly proclaimed that it was a
matter of the "empire striking back", it was terrorism. Thousands of
defenseless women and children were needlessly massacred and Americans
were encouraged to be proud of and to support Bush's so called 'war on
terror'.

By supporting the Bush regime, people are indeed supporting terrorism.
Most of them have been led to believe that the biggest terrorist regime
in the world is actually fighting terrorism, so I wouldn't call that
treason. They're simply guilty of being too gullible, of believing the
lies of the most spectacular propaganda system of all time, which is
based on unlimited greed.

RH

=============

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a
revolutionary act."
George Orwell

George Orwell in "1984":
"It's not a matter of whether the war is not real, or if it is, Victory
[peace] is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to
be continuous [to last forever and to remain extremely profitable for
a few extremely rich men]. Hierarchical society [where the rich get
richer and the poor are pissed on] is only possible on the basis of
poverty and ignorance... In principle, the war effort is always planned
to keep [significant parts of] society on the brink of starvation [with
many struggling & barely getting by].

The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects [who are
intentionally kept down (poor), so enough of them will be desperate
enough to put on a uniform & fight]... [the war's] object is not the
victory... but to keep the very structure of [our deception & greed
based, totalitarian ***** led] society [where the super rich grow
fatter and fatter, while the average people - especially non-whites,
get pissed on] intact."

--------------------------------------------------------------------

"One reason that propaganda often works better on the educated than on
the uneducated is that educated people read more, so they receive more
propaganda. Another is that they have jobs in management, media, and
academia and therefore work in some capacity as agents of the
propaganda system--and they believe what the system expects them to
believe. By and large, they're part of the privileged elite, and share
the interests and perceptions of those in power. " Noam Chomsky

A good short article:
Propaganda American Style by Noam Chomsky
http://www.zpub.com/un/chomsky.html
================

Media Education Foundation
Elite Propaganda
THE MYTH OF THE LIBERAL MEDIA
The Propaganda Model of News

watch/listen to free 60 min. video:

Video
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6435.htm

Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky demolish one of the central tenets of
our political culture, the idea of the "liberal media." Instead,
utilizing a systematic model based on massive empirical research, they
reveal the manner in which the news media are so subordinated to
corporate and conservative interests that their function can only be
described as that of "elite propaganda."

"If you want to understand the way a system works, you look at its
institutional structure. How it is organized, how it is controlled,
how it is funded." -Noam Chomsky

"The Mainstream media really represent elite interests, and what the
propaganda model tries to do is stipulate a set of institutional
variables, reflecting this elite power, that very powerfully influence
the media." -Edward Herman

======================
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience.
Our problem is that numbers of people all over the world have obeyed
the dictates of the leaders of their government and have gone to war,
and millions have been killed because of this obedience. . . Our
problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of
poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem
is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves,
and all the while the grand thieves are running the country. That's our
problem." Howard Zinn, "Failure to Quit", p. 45

"We cannot afford to differ on the question of honesty if we expect our
republic permanently to endure. Honesty is not so much a credit as an
absolute prerequisite to efficient service to the public. Unless a man
is honest, we have no right to keep him in public life; it matters not
how brilliant his capacity." Theodore Roosevelt

" The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the
growth of private power to the point where it becomes stronger than the
democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism - ownership of
government by an individual, by a group or any controlling private
power." President Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and
causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the
war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high
places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavour
to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until
all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is
destroyed." Abraham Lincoln

=

"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible
government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to
the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy
alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first
task of the statesmanship of today." President Theodore Roosevelt

=

"We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most
completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world - no
longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a Government by
conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion
and duress of small groups of dominant men." Woodrow Wilson

===================

One way to help fight the real terrorists!
http://www.ImpeachBush.org

===================

for those who missed them:

Pictures of Destruction and Civilian Victims of the Anglo-American
Aggression in Iraq

These photos are only of a very tiny fraction of the thousands of Iraqi
Civilian Victims who have been terrorised, humiliated, injured, maimed
and killed through British and American bombing of civilian areas in
various cities of Iraq. Due to insecurity, independent reporters could
not and still can not reach many areas to photograph and report the
atrocities. Several independent reporters and journalists were
deliberately bombed to prevent them reporting the atrocities. We kindly
request Independent News Reporters to send us photos of the
Anglo-American atrocities in Iraq for inclusion on these pages.

Please note that some of these pictures are not suitable for small
children and those who have weak hearts.

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

=================

One way to help fight the real terrorists!
http://www.ImpeachBush.org