| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Harry Hope" |
| Date: |
05 Nov 2004 05:56:13 PM |
| Object: |
Was the election stolen? Judge for yourselves |
http://www.rubberbug.com/temp/FloridaChartsMed.jpg
Harry
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| User: "Foolcow" |
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| Title: Re: Was the election stolen? Judge for yourselves |
06 Nov 2004 10:12:04 PM |
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On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 23:56:13 +0000, Harry Hope wrote:
http://www.rubberbug.com/temp/FloridaChartsMed.jpg
Harry
Oh, so people in rural southern counties vote for Republicans, even if
they're registered Democrats? Who ever would have thought that? <roll>
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| User: "Patrick Kretzschmar" |
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| Title: Re: Was the election stolen? Judge for yourselves |
12 Nov 2004 07:03:42 PM |
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Hmm, BPVH's stats that he presented really seemed to shut everyone up
LoL. If I am wrong... Please reply ;-)
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| User: "NoPlutocracyUSA" |
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| Title: Re: Was the election stolen? Judge for yourselves |
13 Nov 2004 09:31:30 AM |
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"Patrick Kretzschmar" <TheLibertarian@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fa540c9.0411121703.4dcba9b5@posting.google.com...
Hmm, BPVH's stats that he presented really seemed to shut everyone up
LoL. If I am wrong... Please reply ;-)
Not at all. There is evidence that fraud was committed in the 2000 vote in
those counties in Florida, so BPVH's data is suspect. The difference in the
outcomes between the optical scan machines and the other machines in the
2004 election is statistically very significant. The 2004 Florida vote
count is very different from the exit poll results. The vote to raise the
minimum wage passed by 72% in Florida, while Kerry got 48%. How many people
would simultaneously vote for Bush and a big increase in the minimum wage?
Here's some data I'd like to see that I can't find: 2000 election Florida
exit poll results, county by county. That data would tell a big story.
----------------------------------------
Excerpt from http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm:
One possible explanation for this is the "Dixiecrat" theory, that in Florida
white voters (particularly the rural ones) have been registered as Democrats
for years, but voting Republican since Reagan. Looking at the 2000
statistics, also available on Dopp's site, there are similar anomalies,
although the trends are not as strong as in 2004. But some suggest the 2000
election may have been questionable in Florida, too.
One of the people involved in Dopp's analysis noted that it may be possible
to determine the validity of the "rural Democrat" theory by comparing
Florida's white rural counties to those of Pennsylvania, another swing state
but one that went for Kerry, as the exit polls there predicted.
Interestingly, the Pennsylvania analysis, available at
http://ustogether.org/election04/PA_vote_patt.htm, doesn't show the same
kind of swings as does Florida, lending credence to the possibility of
problems in Florida.
Even more significantly, Dopp had first run the analysis while filtering out
smaller (rural) counties, and still found that the only variable that
accounted for a swing toward Republican voting was the use of optical-scan
machines, whereas counties with touch-screen machines generally didn't
swing - regardless of size.
Others offer similar insights, based on other data. A professor at the
University of Massachusetts, Amherst, noted that in Florida the vote to
raise the minimum wage was approved by 72%, although Kerry got 48%. "The
correlation between voting for the minimum wage increase and voting for
Kerry isn't likely to be perfect," he noted, "but one would normally expect
that the gap - of 1.5 million votes - to be far smaller than it was."
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| User: "bpvh" |
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| Title: Re: Was the election stolen? Judge for yourselves |
14 Nov 2004 08:07:19 AM |
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"NoPlutocracyUSA" <person332XFG400201@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:4_KdnZ06UulOtQvcRVn-rg@adelphia.com...
"Patrick Kretzschmar" <TheLibertarian@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fa540c9.0411121703.4dcba9b5@posting.google.com...
Hmm, BPVH's stats that he presented really seemed to shut everyone
up
LoL. If I am wrong... Please reply ;-)
Not at all. There is evidence that fraud was committed in the 2000
vote in
those counties in Florida, so BPVH's data is suspect. The
difference in the
outcomes between the optical scan machines and the other machines in
the
2004 election is statistically very significant. The 2004 Florida
vote
count is very different from the exit poll results. The vote to
raise the
minimum wage passed by 72% in Florida, while Kerry got 48%. How
many people
would simultaneously vote for Bush and a big increase in the minimum
wage?
Here's some data I'd like to see that I can't find: 2000 election
Florida
exit poll results, county by county. That data would tell a big
story.
Some 2 million out of the 10 million votes cast in the 2004
presidential election in Florida were cast early. How does this
impact the accuracy of the exit polls?
Nationally, some 20 million plus votes were cast early. Again, how
does this impact the accuracy of exit polls nationwide.
Source:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6375312/
"Early Voting Has Arrived"
Cummins, J.
Wall Street Journal
November 3, 2004
Print Edition: pg A4
-bpvh
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| User: "NoPlutocracyUSA" |
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| Title: Re: Was the election stolen? Judge for yourselves |
14 Nov 2004 09:57:17 AM |
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If your earlier years data is correct, and it probably is, then you may be
right. The Floridian Democrats may be the weirdest voters in the country,
voting for repug presidents while voting overwhelmingly democratic on the
minimum wage proposition. Maybe the strong statistical variance between the
optical scan machines and the other types of machines is simply a very
unusual coincidence. However, it is still suspicious enough to warrant an
investigation, particularly given the fact that most of the votes have no
paper trail, which is why there are now six members of congress working with
the FBI on it. You're probably right, but we'll have to wait and see what
the results of the investigation reveal.
There is absolutely no excuse for not having paper ballots for every vote,
all of which are counted to verify the electronic results, and some type of
standardized hardware and open-source software for the machines in place and
troubleshot for the 2006 elections. The fact that this probably won't
happen will show clearly that our politicians are overtly corrupt, and they
want to keep this type of confusion and inability to verify votes in place
in order to continue to have the ability to commit vote fraud in future
elections.
"bpvh" <bpvhnews@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10pepkmm555ed9@corp.supernews.com...
"NoPlutocracyUSA" <person332XFG400201@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:4_KdnZ06UulOtQvcRVn-rg@adelphia.com...
"Patrick Kretzschmar" <TheLibertarian@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fa540c9.0411121703.4dcba9b5@posting.google.com...
Hmm, BPVH's stats that he presented really seemed to shut everyone
up
LoL. If I am wrong... Please reply ;-)
Not at all. There is evidence that fraud was committed in the 2000
vote in
those counties in Florida, so BPVH's data is suspect. The
difference in the
outcomes between the optical scan machines and the other machines in
the
2004 election is statistically very significant. The 2004 Florida
vote
count is very different from the exit poll results. The vote to
raise the
minimum wage passed by 72% in Florida, while Kerry got 48%. How
many people
would simultaneously vote for Bush and a big increase in the minimum
wage?
Here's some data I'd like to see that I can't find: 2000 election
Florida
exit poll results, county by county. That data would tell a big
story.
Some 2 million out of the 10 million votes cast in the 2004
presidential election in Florida were cast early. How does this
impact the accuracy of the exit polls?
Nationally, some 20 million plus votes were cast early. Again, how
does this impact the accuracy of exit polls nationwide.
Source:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6375312/
"Early Voting Has Arrived"
Cummins, J.
Wall Street Journal
November 3, 2004
Print Edition: pg A4
-bpvh
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| User: "bpvh" |
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| Title: Re: Was the election stolen? Judge for yourselves |
14 Nov 2004 12:23:24 PM |
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"NoPlutocracyUSA" <person332XFG400201@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:EbKdndJOb7DUHQrcRVn-oA@adelphia.com...
"bpvh" <bpvhnews@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10pepkmm555ed9@corp.supernews.com...
"NoPlutocracyUSA" <person332XFG400201@adelphia.net> wrote in
message
news:4_KdnZ06UulOtQvcRVn-rg@adelphia.com...
"Patrick Kretzschmar" <TheLibertarian@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
news:3fa540c9.0411121703.4dcba9b5@posting.google.com...
Hmm, BPVH's stats that he presented really seemed to shut
everyone
up
LoL. If I am wrong... Please reply ;-)
Not at all. There is evidence that fraud was committed in the
2000
vote in
those counties in Florida, so BPVH's data is suspect. The
difference in the
outcomes between the optical scan machines and the other machines
in
the
2004 election is statistically very significant. The 2004
Florida
vote
count is very different from the exit poll results. The vote to
raise the
minimum wage passed by 72% in Florida, while Kerry got 48%. How
many people
would simultaneously vote for Bush and a big increase in the
minimum
wage?
Here's some data I'd like to see that I can't find: 2000
election
Florida
exit poll results, county by county. That data would tell a big
story.
Some 2 million out of the 10 million votes cast in the 2004
presidential election in Florida were cast early. How does this
impact the accuracy of the exit polls?
Nationally, some 20 million plus votes were cast early. Again, how
does this impact the accuracy of exit polls nationwide.
Source:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6375312/
"Early Voting Has Arrived"
Cummins, J.
Wall Street Journal
November 3, 2004
Print Edition: pg A4
-bpvh
If your earlier years data is correct, and it probably is, then you
may be
right. The Floridian Democrats may be the weirdest voters in the
country,
voting for repug presidents while voting overwhelmingly democratic
on the
minimum wage proposition. Maybe the strong statistical variance
between the
optical scan machines and the other types of machines is simply a
very
unusual coincidence. However, it is still suspicious enough to
warrant an
investigation, particularly given the fact that most of the votes
have no
paper trail, which is why there are now six members of congress
working with
the FBI on it. You're probably right, but we'll have to wait and
see what
the results of the investigation reveal.
Look at which counties used optical scan machines, which used EVote
(touchscreen), etc, in Florida:
Smaller (population), rural counties where more likely to use optical
scan machines. Larger (pop.), more urban, areas were more likely to
use EVote machines. The difference in voting patterns between optical
scan and EVote machines can be explained by this rural/urban divide:
urban areas tend to vote Democrat while rural areas tend to vote
Republican.
Furthermore, if you compare the vote change between 2000 and 2004 in
all the counties using X technology in 2004, counties that used
optical scan machines in 2004 increased their vote percentage for Bush
by about 3.5 percentage points while counties that used EVote machines
in 2004 increased their vote percentage for Bush by about 3.0
percentage points.
In the eight counties in question at the top of this thread, all eight
used optical scan machines. There is a paper trail for these votes.
It was the paper-trailless EVote machines that went for Kerry while
the paper-trailable optical scan machines that went for Bush.
There is absolutely no excuse for not having paper ballots for every
vote,
all of which are counted to verify the electronic results, and some
type of
standardized hardware and open-source software for the machines in
place and
troubleshot for the 2006 elections. The fact that this probably
won't
happen will show clearly that our politicians are overtly corrupt,
and they
want to keep this type of confusion and inability to verify votes in
place
in order to continue to have the ability to commit vote fraud in
future
elections.
About the papertrail, I wholeheartedly agree.
And the voters should have their ballots run while they are present so
that if the ballot is rejected, it can be rectified on the spot. The
spoiled ballot problem needs to be solved.
It might also be nice to have some sort of receipt stating who/what
was voted for.
At my voting station, optical scan machines are used and the ballot is
run through while the voter is there(by the voter actually). In the
past, if the voter did not cast a vote for the presidential candidate
in a presidential election, the ballot was kicked out for the voter to
try again. Not sure how it worked if the voter truly did not want to
vote for president. If other races other than president were left
unvoted, the ballot was accepted. This year, if there was no vote for
the presidential candidate, the ballot was accepted. This is a change
for the worse.
Sources:
http://vevo.verifiedvoting.org/verifier/map.php?&topic_string=5std&state=Florida
http://electionexamination.blogspot.com/
-bpvh
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| User: "bpvh" |
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| Title: Re: Was the election stolen? Judge for yourselves |
14 Nov 2004 07:59:56 AM |
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"NoPlutocracyUSA" <person332XFG400201@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:4_KdnZ06UulOtQvcRVn-rg@adelphia.com...
"Patrick Kretzschmar" <TheLibertarian@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fa540c9.0411121703.4dcba9b5@posting.google.com...
Hmm, BPVH's stats that he presented really seemed to shut everyone
up
LoL. If I am wrong... Please reply ;-)
Not at all. There is evidence that fraud was committed in the 2000
vote in
those counties in Florida, so BPVH's data is suspect. The
difference in the
outcomes between the optical scan machines and the other machines in
the
2004 election is statistically very significant. The 2004 Florida
vote
count is very different from the exit poll results. The vote to
raise the
minimum wage passed by 72% in Florida, while Kerry got 48%. How
many people
would simultaneously vote for Bush and a big increase in the minimum
wage?
Well, since one of my posts went back to 1980 .... :
Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:pm4oo05ij3d6ajun2nl0lt3a0c0jnmsr52@4ax.com...
http://www.rubberbug.com/temp/FloridaChartsMed.jpg
Harry
As shown below, the counties supposedly showing fraud are historically
Republican counties.
The disputed counties in the picture are:
Bradford
Baker
Calhoun
Columbia
Desoto
Dixie
Franklin
Holmes
In 2000,
Bradford went:
Bush 5416
Gore 3075
Baker went:
Bush 5611
Gore 2392
Calhoun went:
Bush 2873
Gore 2156
Columbia went:
Bush 10968
Gore 7049
Desoto went:
Bush 4256
Gore 3321
Dixie went:
Bush 2697
Gore 1827
Franklin went:
Bush 2454
Gore 2047
Holmes went:
Bush 5012
Gore 2177
A clean sweep for Bush.
In 1996:
Bradford -- Dole
Baker -- Dole
Calhoun -- Clinton
Columbia -- Dole
Desoto -- Dole
Dixie -- Clinton
Franklin -- Clinton
Holmes -- Dole
5-3 for Dole.
In 1992:
Bradford -- Bush I
Baker -- Bush I
Calhoun -- Bush I
Columbia -- Bush I
Desoto -- Bush I
Dixie -- Clinton
Franklin -- Bush I
Holmes -- Bush I
7-1 for Bush I.
In 1988, all for Bush I.
In 1984, all for Reagan.
In 1980, 6-2 for Carter with only Desoto and Holmes for Reagan.
To show any kind of fraud, counties that are not historically
Republican need to be used. From 1980 to 2000, of the 48 county
races, the GOP candidate won 38 times.
Sources:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/
http://www.polidata.us/pub/reports/129601CY.pdf
http://www.polidata.us/pub/reports/129201CY.pdf
http://www.polidata.us/books/FL/default.htm
-bpvh
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| User: "Chris the Liberal" |
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| Title: Re: Was the election stolen? Judge for yourselves |
14 Nov 2004 05:17:00 PM |
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"NoPlutocracyUSA" <person332XFG400201@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<4_KdnZ06UulOtQvcRVn-rg@adelphia.com>...
"Patrick Kretzschmar" <TheLibertarian@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fa540c9.0411121703.4dcba9b5@posting.google.com...
Hmm, BPVH's stats that he presented really seemed to shut everyone up
LoL. If I am wrong... Please reply ;-)
Not at all. There is evidence that fraud was committed in the 2000 vote in
those counties in Florida, so BPVH's data is suspect. The difference in the
outcomes between the optical scan machines and the other machines in the
2004 election is statistically very significant. The 2004 Florida vote
count is very different from the exit poll results. The vote to raise the
minimum wage passed by 72% in Florida, while Kerry got 48%. How many people
would simultaneously vote for Bush and a big increase in the minimum wage?
Here's some data I'd like to see that I can't find: 2000 election Florida
exit poll results, county by county. That data would tell a big story.
----------------------------------------
Excerpt from http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm:
One possible explanation for this is the "Dixiecrat" theory, that in Florida
white voters (particularly the rural ones) have been registered as Democrats
for years, but voting Republican since Reagan. Looking at the 2000
statistics, also available on Dopp's site, there are similar anomalies,
although the trends are not as strong as in 2004. But some suggest the 2000
election may have been questionable in Florida, too.
Don't know about Florida, but regardless of registration, if you vote
here in a party primary, that becomes your "label" until you vote in
another primary.
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