| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"K C" |
| Date: |
15 Apr 2004 09:32:25 AM |
| Object: |
What did Kerry do to prevent 9-11 |
With all the attention on Bush and Clinton's suggested failures to
prevent 9-11 or to fight the war on terror, the press has been trying
to present Kerry as an unbiased solution. However, Kerry was in
office for decades before 9-11. What did he do, as a congressman, to
prepare us.
Well, he voted to gut the intelligence agencies. He voted to reduce
the military. He vocally opposed us fighting terrorists in Iraq.
Consider these quotes from two articles...
["It's true Kerry expressed opposition to those weapons 20 years ago
as a candidate, voted against Pentagon budgets several times as a
senator in the early and mid-1990's, and proposed cuts in military and
intelligence budgets as deficit-reduction measures as recently as
1996."] - FactCheck.org
--
[The AP review of Kerry's votes in the Senate for more than a decade
show that he often has backed or spearheaded targeted cuts in the
Pentagon budget.
In the early 1990s, he voted to limit funding for the B-2 stealth
bomber, which for years was plagued by cost overruns and had an
eye-popping pricetag of $2 billion per plane. Under the direction of
then-Defense Secretary ***** Cheney, the Pentagon decided to buy fewer
planes.
Kerry also voted to trim $3 billion to $4 billion from the defense
bill in 1991-92. And in 1995 and 1996, he voted against both major
defense spending and authorization bills.
"In the early stages of his (Senate career) he looked to squeeze the
fat out of some of the big defense budgets," said Michael Meehan,
senior Kerry campaign adviser. "We had enormous deficits and he would
oppose big ticket weapons systems that were very expensive."
Kerry, a longtime member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, at
times argued for spending restraint and on other occasions was at odds
with the first Bush administration, the Clinton White House and even
some Democrats on the Senate Armed Services Committee, which is
responsible for the annual defense authorization bills.
In one 1990 debate, Kerry pushed for cuts in an anti-satellite weapons
system, which had increased in cost from $73 million to a proposed
$208 million in a single year. He said the funding should stay at the
$73 million level, but that any savings should go to other defense
programs.
In other instances, Kerry:
* Voted to eliminate the B-2 bomber program in 1992.
* Voted on several occasions to reduce funding for long-range missile
defense programs. Derisively referred to as President Reagan's "Star
Wars" program by some in Congress, missile defense was a constant
source of controversy in the 1990s as lawmakers questioned the
feasibility of a missile shield, especially after the collapse of the
Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War.
Christine Iverson, spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee,
said Kerry voted against spending on weapons systems that have proven
valuable in the Persian Gulf, including the F-16 and F-15 fighter
aircraft.
"There is a canyon of difference between his voting record in the
Senate and his rhetoric on the campaign trail," Iverson said.] - AP
Feb. 24, 2004
--
Now, I want you to realize something. When Kerry was opposing
military and intelligence spending requests in the 90s, he was
opposing CLINTON requests for military and intelligence spending.
Thus, Kerry was even worse than Clinton on backing the military and
intel efforts of the USA.
http://beingone.20m.com/providence.html
.
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| User: "Graefaxe" |
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| Title: Re: What did Kerry do to prevent 9-11 |
15 Apr 2004 10:47:03 AM |
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"K C" <writingken@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e88a6c8b.0404150632.7ec56489@posting.google.com...
With all the attention on Bush and Clinton's suggested failures to
prevent 9-11 or to fight the war on terror, the press has been trying
to present Kerry as an unbiased solution. However, Kerry was in
office for decades before 9-11. What did he do, as a congressman, to
prepare us.
Well, he voted to gut the intelligence agencies. He voted to reduce
the military. He vocally opposed us fighting terrorists in Iraq.
Consider these quotes from two articles...
["It's true Kerry expressed opposition to those weapons 20 years ago
as a candidate, voted against Pentagon budgets several times as a
senator in the early and mid-1990's, and proposed cuts in military and
intelligence budgets as deficit-reduction measures as recently as
1996."] - FactCheck.org
And, to continue the article...
(http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=153)
Analysis
President Bush said March 8 at a political fundraiser in Dallas that Kerry's
1995 proposal to cut $1.5 billion over five years was "deeply
irresponsible."
His bill was so deeply irresponsible that he didn't have a single co-sponsor
in the United States Senate. Once again, Senator Kerry is trying to have it
both ways. He's for good intelligence, yet he was willing to gut the
intelligence services. And that is no way to lead a nation in a time of war.
"Gut" intelligence? It was 1%
It's true that Kerry's 1995 proposal called for cutting intelligence funding
by $1.5 billion over five years. The actual amount of intelligence spending
is classified, but according to the Boston Globe, the Washington Post and
others, the US was spending roughly $27 billion on intelligence at the time.
So the $300-million cut would have amounted to a little over 1 percent.
Hardly a "gutting."
It's true Kerry's measure had no co-sponsors and died without a hearing. But
that's hardly evidence it was "deeply irresponsible" as the President
claimed. On the contrary, there was bipartisan support for cutting what was
seen as wasteful spending of classified intelligence funds.
In fact, Kerry's proposal came five days after the Washington Post had
reported that one intelligence agency, the super-secret National
Reconnaissance Office, had quietly hoarded between $1 billion and $1.7
billion in unspent funds without informing the Central Intelligence Agency
or the Pentagon. The CIA was in the midst of an inquiry into the NRO's
funding because of complaints that the agency had spent $300 million on
unspent funds from its classified budget to build a new headquarters
building in Virginia a year earlier.
"Irresponsible?" But Republicans Approved.
Also, the very same day Kerry proposed his $1.5 billion cut, the Senate
passed by voice vote an amendment proposed by Republican Senator Arlen
Specter of Pennsylvania to eliminate $1 billion in intelligence funds for
fiscal year 1996. Specter made clear he was attempting to recoup $1 billion
in unused intelligence funds from the NRO:
It has alleged that the NRO has accumulated more than $1 billion in unspent
funds without informing the Pentagon, CIA, or Congress.
Kerry co-sponsored a companion measure to the Specter amendment, along with
Republican Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama. The cut eventually became law as
part of a House-Senate package endorsed by the Republican leadership.
And in fact, the reports of an NRO slush fund turned out to be true.
According to former CIA general counsel Jeffrey Smith, who led the
investigation:
Our inquiry revealed that the NRO had for years accumulated very substantial
amount as a 'rainy day fund.'
Smith, quoted by Slate Magazine, said Kerry's proposal was an attempt "to
re-assert adequate Congressional oversight of the intelligence budget."
A "pattern?" Well, not exactly
The Bush campaign in a March 9 document accused Kerry of "a pattern of
intelligence cuts." But aside from the 1995 proposal, the only evidence of a
"pattern" offered was a 1994 deficit-reduction bill Kerry sponsored (S.
1826) that included a $1 billion a year in cuts to the intelligence budget
for 1994-1998.
It is true that some members of Kerry's own party criticized that proposal.
Sen. Dennis DeConcini said intelligence funds already had been cut $3.5
billion:
I continue to believe that last year's intelligence cut was as deep as the
intelligence community can withstand during its post-cold-war transition.
And Sen. Daniel Inouye echoed that:
An additional $1 billion would severely hamper the intelligence community's
ability to provide decisionmakers and policymakers with information on
matters vital to this country.
On Feb 10,1994, Kerry's amendment was defeated 75-20 with 38 Democratic
Senators voting against it.
But it is also true that even at that time there was growing concern about
the how effectively the intelligence agencies were spending the money they
had. Later in 1994 Congress formed the Aspin Commission to assess the state
of the intelligence services. It was bipartisan. Following the death of
former Secretary of Defense Les Aspin, for whom the panel was named, it was
headed by another former Secretary of Defense, Harold Brown, and by
Republican former Sen. Warren Rudman of New Hampshire.
When the 17-member panel completed its report two years later, it said
intelligence funding, despite recent cuts, was still 80% higher than it had
been in 1980 even after adjustments for inflation. And while the commission
did not recommend any more cuts, it acknowledged that balancing the federal
budget would probably require that cuts be made.
And the commission stopped well short of claiming further cuts would "gut"
the intelligence services:
Reductions to the existing and planned intelligence resources may be
possible without damaging the nation's security. Indeed, finding such
reductions is critical . . . (I)t is clear a more rigorous analysis of the
resources budgeted for intelligence is required.
Sources
Wayne Washington, "Bush Hits Kerry Try in 1995 to Cut Intelligence;
'Misleading Attack,' Senator's Camp Says," The Boston Globe 9 March 2004.
Walter Pincus and Dana Milbank "Bush Exaggerates Kerry's Position on
Intelligence Budget" Washington Post 12 March 2004: A4.
Mike Allen, "Bush, Cheney Attack Kerry as Indecisive; President Focuses on
Intelligence Issues," The Washington Post 9 March 2004: A6.
Richard W. Stevenson and Jodi Wilgoren, "Bush Attacks Kerry on Bill to Trim
Intelligence Budget," The New York Times 9 March 2004: A20.
Jennifer Loven, "Bush accuses Kerry of trying to have it 'both ways,'" The
Associated Press 9 March 2004.
Fred Kaplan, "John Kerry's Defense Defense, " Slate Magazine Posted 25 Feb.
2004.
Fred Kaplan, "Bush Insults Kerry's Intelligence, " Slate Magazine Posted 9
March 2004.
"Chairman Ed Gillespie News Conference on Sen. Kerry's Voting Record, " 25
Feb. 2004, Gop.com.
"The Kerry Line, Kerry: A Pattern of Intelligence Cuts ," 9 March 2004
Bush-Cheney '04, Inc.
"Statement from Kerry Spokesman on Bush Attacks on Kerry Record on
Intelligence," 8 March 2004 JohnKerry.com.
"Preparing for the 21st Century: An Appraisal of U.S. Intelligence, " Aspin
Commission 1 March 1996.
"Bush-Cheney '04 Campaign Chairman Governor Marc Racicot's Letter to Senator
John Kerry, " 22 Feb. 2004 Georgebush.com.
"Statement by Speaker Dennis Hastert: Kerry's Record of Cutting
Intelligence," 9 March 2004 Georgebush.com.
S. 1290 "Responsible Deficit Reduction Act of 1995 ," Introduced 29 Sept.
1995.
S. Amdt 2881 to S. 922 Proposed 29 Sept. 1995.
S. 1826 "Deficit Reduction Act of 1994, " Introduced 3 Feb. 1994.
S. Amdt 1452 to H.R. 3759 Proposed 9 Feb. 1994.
George W. Bush, "President Lays Out the Clear Choice: Steady Leadership vs.
Uncertain & Unfair Policies, " 8 March 2004 Georgebush.com.
U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 103rd Congrees - 2nd Session S.Amdt 1452 Vote
#39 10 Feb. 1994.
Related Articles
Did Kerry Oppose Tanks & Planes? Not Lately
Kerry voted often against nuclear missiles and bombers in the '90s, but GOP
claims that he opposed a long list of conventional weapons are overblown.
--
[The AP review of Kerry's votes in the Senate for more than a decade
show that he often has backed or spearheaded targeted cuts in the
Pentagon budget.
In the early 1990s, he voted to limit funding for the B-2 stealth
bomber, which for years was plagued by cost overruns and had an
eye-popping pricetag of $2 billion per plane. Under the direction of
then-Defense Secretary ***** Cheney, the Pentagon decided to buy fewer
planes.
Nothing to do with terrorism. The B-2 is a carryover from the Cold War.
Designed in the 80s, it was and is designed to be a strategic stealth attack
aircraft.
Kerry also voted to trim $3 billion to $4 billion from the defense
bill in 1991-92. And in 1995 and 1996, he voted against both major
defense spending and authorization bills.
"In the early stages of his (Senate career) he looked to squeeze the
fat out of some of the big defense budgets," said Michael Meehan,
senior Kerry campaign adviser. "We had enormous deficits and he would
oppose big ticket weapons systems that were very expensive."
As did most of the fiscally responsible Senators and Representatives. The
big ticket items were primarily pork with very limited usability outside of
a very narrow scope (B-2, Star Wars, etc.). Also, the most vocal proponents
were usually those that had constituants building the items.
Kerry, a longtime member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, at
times argued for spending restraint and on other occasions was at odds
with the first Bush administration, the Clinton White House and even
some Democrats on the Senate Armed Services Committee, which is
responsible for the annual defense authorization bills.
Basically, he was doing his job. Without debate, we would have dictatorial
rule.
In one 1990 debate, Kerry pushed for cuts in an anti-satellite weapons
system, which had increased in cost from $73 million to a proposed
$208 million in a single year. He said the funding should stay at the
$73 million level, but that any savings should go to other defense
programs.
Again, where is the anti-terrorism use? Star Wars has been a major failure
with huge cost overruns in a time when the chances of missile attack have
gone down, not up.
In other instances, Kerry:
* Voted to eliminate the B-2 bomber program in 1992.
* Voted on several occasions to reduce funding for long-range missile
defense programs. Derisively referred to as President Reagan's "Star
Wars" program by some in Congress, missile defense was a constant
source of controversy in the 1990s as lawmakers questioned the
feasibility of a missile shield, especially after the collapse of the
Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War.
He was consistant 2 years later. My, oh my!
Christine Iverson, spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee,
said Kerry voted against spending on weapons systems that have proven
valuable in the Persian Gulf, including the F-16 and F-15 fighter
aircraft.
Many people thing the F-15 and F-16 programs need to be scaled back for the
new JTF program. Others think that the 25 year old designs need to be
retrofitted again and again. Others still think that more study is
required. Others think that the JTF designs need to be reevaluated. The
F-15 and F-16 are hardly state of the art aircraft, but no one will ever
deny that they are still very effective on todays battlefield.
"There is a canyon of difference between his voting record in the
Senate and his rhetoric on the campaign trail," Iverson said.] - AP
Feb. 24, 2004
--
Now, I want you to realize something. When Kerry was opposing
military and intelligence spending requests in the 90s, he was
opposing CLINTON requests for military and intelligence spending.
Thus, Kerry was even worse than Clinton on backing the military and
intel efforts of the USA.
http://beingone.20m.com/providence.html
Gee, and I thought it was the Clinton military machine that did so well in
Afghanistan and Iraq. Bush's budgets and Rumsfeld's proposed force changes
had not had any effect, at the time. While I do not agree with the way in
which the military was used, I respect the job that they did and the
effectiveness whith which they did it.
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: What did Kerry do to prevent 9-11 |
15 Apr 2004 04:30:39 PM |
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(K C) wrote:
With all the attention on Bush and Clinton's suggested failures to
prevent 9-11 or to fight the war on terror, the press has been trying
to present Kerry as an unbiased solution.
Cite, please. I've seen no press article claiming that Kerry is
either unbiased or necessarily has a solution.
However, Kerry was in
office for decades before 9-11. What did he do, as a congressman, to
prepare us.
Presumably, he represented his constituents. That is what congressmen
so. It is the executive branch that defends the country, not
individual members of the legislative branch.
Go retake civics class.
Well, he voted to gut the intelligence agencies. He voted to reduce
the military. He vocally opposed us fighting terrorists in Iraq.
We weren't fighting terrorists in Iraq, until we made those
terrorists.
[The AP review of Kerry's votes in the Senate for more than a decade
show that he often has backed or spearheaded targeted cuts in the
Pentagon budget.
In the early 1990s, he voted to limit funding for the B-2 stealth
bomber, which for years was plagued by cost overruns and had an
eye-popping pricetag of $2 billion per plane. Under the direction of
then-Defense Secretary ***** Cheney, the Pentagon decided to buy fewer
planes.
HOw is that relevant to fighting terrorism?
Kerry also voted to trim $3 billion to $4 billion from the defense
bill in 1991-92. And in 1995 and 1996, he voted against both major
defense spending and authorization bills.
"In the early stages of his (Senate career) he looked to squeeze the
fat out of some of the big defense budgets," said Michael Meehan,
senior Kerry campaign adviser. "We had enormous deficits and he would
oppose big ticket weapons systems that were very expensive."
How are big ticket weapons systems relevant to fighting terrorism?
In one 1990 debate, Kerry pushed for cuts in an anti-satellite weapons
system, which had increased in cost from $73 million to a proposed
$208 million in a single year. He said the funding should stay at the
$73 million level, but that any savings should go to other defense
programs.
How is an anti-satellite weapons system relevant to fighting
terrorism?
"Other defense programs" might include those that fight terrorism.
In other instances, Kerry:
* Voted to eliminate the B-2 bomber program in 1992.
* Voted on several occasions to reduce funding for long-range missile
defense programs. Derisively referred to as President Reagan's "Star
Wars" program by some in Congress, missile defense was a constant
source of controversy in the 1990s as lawmakers questioned the
feasibility of a missile shield, especially after the collapse of the
Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War.
Christine Iverson, spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee,
said Kerry voted against spending on weapons systems that have proven
valuable in the Persian Gulf, including the F-16 and F-15 fighter
aircraft.
Not relevant to a war against terrorism.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
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| User: "K C" |
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| Title: Re: What did Kerry do to prevent 9-11 |
16 Apr 2004 09:12:50 AM |
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Bob branch.
Go retake civics class.
Well, he voted to gut the intelligence agencies. He voted to reduce
the military. He vocally opposed us fighting terrorists in Iraq.
We weren't fighting terrorists in Iraq, until we made those
terrorists.
Go take a history class. At least two of the UN resoulutions condemn
Iraq for having terrorists in their country, which I've shown you
before. Powell's links between Saddam's administration and Al Queda
were never shown false. Finally, Saddam was what if not a terrorist?
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: What did Kerry do to prevent 9-11 |
16 Apr 2004 12:51:42 PM |
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(K C) wrote:
Go take a history class. At least two of the UN resoulutions condemn
Iraq for having terrorists in their country, which I've shown you
before. Powell's links between Saddam's administration and Al Queda
were never shown false.
Bush admitted a long time ago that there were no ties.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
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| User: "InsuranceBroker" |
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| Title: Re: What did Kerry do to prevent 9-11 |
16 Apr 2004 09:23:40 AM |
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Subject: Re: What did Kerry do to prevent 9-11
From: (K C)
Date: 4/16/2004 10:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <e88a6c8b.0404160612.7076b40b@posting.google.com>
Bob branch.
Go retake civics class.
Well, he voted to gut the intelligence agencies. He voted to reduce
the military. He vocally opposed us fighting terrorists in Iraq.
We weren't fighting terrorists in Iraq, until we made those
terrorists.
Go take a history class. At least two of the UN resoulutions condemn
Iraq for having terrorists in their country, which I've shown you
before. Powell's links between Saddam's administration and Al Queda
were never shown false. Finally, Saddam was what if not a terrorist?
Saddam was a guy who was totaly controlled and in a box. It was the idiot
republicans who for the benefit of a few war profiteers opened that box.
Doing Insurance business in the Garden State
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| User: "eldorado" |
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| Title: Re: What did Kerry do to prevent 9-11 |
15 Apr 2004 10:26:49 AM |
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On 15 Apr 2004, K C wrote:
With all the attention on Bush and Clinton's suggested failures to
prevent 9-11 or to fight the war on terror, the press has been trying
to present Kerry as an unbiased solution. However, Kerry was in
office for decades before 9-11. What did he do, as a congressman, to
prepare us.
Well, he voted to gut the intelligence agencies. He voted to reduce
the military. He vocally opposed us fighting terrorists in Iraq.
Consider these quotes from two articles...
["It's true Kerry expressed opposition to those weapons 20 years ago
as a candidate, voted against Pentagon budgets several times as a
senator in the early and mid-1990's, and proposed cuts in military and
intelligence budgets as deficit-reduction measures as recently as
1996."] - FactCheck.org
Why is it that Republicans are quick to point out that 9/11 changed
everything - and to use this as a defense for lapses in the current admin
(ie even after the now infamous PDB Bush chose to go on vacation and Tenet
said yesterday that during the month of August he did not brief the
president - since he was on vacation - in spite of the increase in
chatter) and yet need to point out Kerry's voting record of twenty years
ago?
--
Randomly generated signature --
If you can't speak softly, just use the stick.
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