What is wrong with gay marriage?



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "N. Czerniak"
Date: 04 Mar 2004 02:03:24 PM
Object: What is wrong with gay marriage?
http://www.newhavenregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11050509&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=7581&rfi=6
No one can explain how gays are such a horrible threat
by John D. Anderson
March 2, 2004
Britney Spears and President Bush believe in the sanctity of marriage. She
said so after she got married as a joke in Las Vegas. Bush said so in his
State of the Union speech. This is America, so they are both free to
believe what they want, however disingenuous it sounds in her case and is
beginning to sound in his case.
But none of this has anything to do with the current move to extend legal
marriage to gays and lesbians. We want recognition from the state. Sanctity
is not a legal concern.
Bush seems to think that, like the Roman emperors, his role includes the
function of Pontifex Maximus. This isn't Rome. He was elected to be
president, not high priest. His concerns for the sanctity of marriage are
extraneous to the interpretation of law. No one is suggesting that the
Massachusetts court or any other courts require faith communities to extend
their religious ceremonial where they do not choose.
I've paid careful attention to print media and television whenever there was
a discussion of same-gender marriage.
Robert Wenz of the National Association of Evangelicals a few weeks ago
spoke of marriage "as God designed it" and "God's biological design for
marriage." Bryant Gumbel asked Wenz what the consequences of gays marrying
would be. Wenz just said there was a need to protect marriage. He never said
from what.
James Dobson of Focus on the Family sent a February direct-mail appeal
saying homosexuals were about to "administer a devastating and potentially
fatal blow to the traditional family."
I don't know what this means, but I'm reminded of that period in our history
when blacks for the first time legally got into the swimming pool and all
the whites got out. Will heterosexuals stop getting married if I can?
No one has been able to specify what this horrible threat to marriage is.
A few months back, I challenged the readers of this newspaper to write in
and help me out on this. Nothing happened. The truth is that gay marriage in
no way affects traditional heterosexual marriage.
The bishop of Boston recently spoke at the annual Mass for lawyers. He
called upon them to protect marriage and block gay marriage.
There was not a word about divorce or domestic violence. Marriage as an
institution has been shattered by heterosexuals. The divorce rate is 50
percent. Clearly the threat to marriage predates gays and lesbians.
There's so much knee-jerking going on over gay marriage it's starting to
look like a Rockettes kick line.
As I wrote last time, if marriage is about kids, gays and lesbians are
already there. Millions of children are being raised by two men or two
women. And the sad thing is that these kids lack legal protections of kids
whose parents are heterosexual.
But marriage under the law is not about children. Marriage in our culture
doesn't necessarily include children. We hear that two people are married
and we ask, "Do they have kids?" Marriage exists without children in our
minds, our language, our society. When people marry, they negotiate whether
to have kids.
The state recognizes children outside of marriage. A single person with a
child is recognized and supported by the legal system, as is the child. The
state safeguards their relationship with all its rights and privileges - for
example, inheritance. Insurance companies automatically extend coverage to
kids.
My point? Outside of religious institutions, marriage is a legal contract, a
state-recognized and legally bolstered relationship. It's not about
sanctity. It's about equity and stability.
There's a lot of desperate talk about polls and activist judges imposing
their will on the people. In the State of the Union speech, Bush said these
judges are acting "without regard for the will of the people and their
elected representatives." He said "the people's voice must be heard."
It is being heard. It was heard in the 1960s, when the Supreme Court struck
down laws prohibiting inter-racial marriage. The courts don't base the
interpretation of law on polls. The polls after racially mixed marriages
became legal showed overwhelming popular dissent. The law didn't care, nor
should it.
Did Bush ask for a poll when the Supreme Court gave him the presidency?
©New Haven Register 2004
--
Tired of the same rhetoric of lies and deceit?
http://www.gentlemanjim.net/
"It aint what you don't know that'll hurt ya, it's what you "know" that aint
so." -- Will Rogers
.

User: "quibbler"

Title: Re: What is wrong with gay marriage? 04 Mar 2004 08:33:47 PM
In article <2YL1c.16386$h23.15474@fed1read06>,
says...

http://www.newhavenregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11050509&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=7581&rfi=6

<snip>

Bush seems to think

<bzzzzzt> Bush doesn't think at all.

that, like the Roman emperors, his role includes the
function of Pontifex Maximus.

Bush's only role is that of Gluteus Maximus

This isn't Rome.

But the neocons want to turn the US into an empire. They already have an
idiot emperor named Georgie and all they need are wars of conquest.
--
_____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.

User: "The,Frog.,."

Title: Re: What is wrong with gay marriage? 04 Mar 2004 02:22:12 PM
It would appear that the homosexuals are severly over-represented in
this newsgroup.
The fact is, if the majority of the citizens decide to pass this
amendment, it will be the law of the land.
They will do so if they believe it is in the best interests of the
nation.
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:03:24 -0800, "N. Czerniak" <Nate57@cox.net>
wrote:

http://www.newhavenregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11050509&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=7581&rfi=6

No one can explain how gays are such a horrible threat
by John D. Anderson
March 2, 2004

Britney Spears and President Bush believe in the sanctity of marriage. She
said so after she got married as a joke in Las Vegas. Bush said so in his
State of the Union speech. This is America, so they are both free to
believe what they want, however disingenuous it sounds in her case and is
beginning to sound in his case.

But none of this has anything to do with the current move to extend legal
marriage to gays and lesbians. We want recognition from the state. Sanctity
is not a legal concern.

Bush seems to think that, like the Roman emperors, his role includes the
function of Pontifex Maximus. This isn't Rome. He was elected to be
president, not high priest. His concerns for the sanctity of marriage are
extraneous to the interpretation of law. No one is suggesting that the
Massachusetts court or any other courts require faith communities to extend
their religious ceremonial where they do not choose.

I've paid careful attention to print media and television whenever there was
a discussion of same-gender marriage.

Robert Wenz of the National Association of Evangelicals a few weeks ago
spoke of marriage "as God designed it" and "God's biological design for
marriage." Bryant Gumbel asked Wenz what the consequences of gays marrying
would be. Wenz just said there was a need to protect marriage. He never said
from what.

James Dobson of Focus on the Family sent a February direct-mail appeal
saying homosexuals were about to "administer a devastating and potentially
fatal blow to the traditional family."

I don't know what this means, but I'm reminded of that period in our history
when blacks for the first time legally got into the swimming pool and all
the whites got out. Will heterosexuals stop getting married if I can?

No one has been able to specify what this horrible threat to marriage is.

A few months back, I challenged the readers of this newspaper to write in
and help me out on this. Nothing happened. The truth is that gay marriage in
no way affects traditional heterosexual marriage.

The bishop of Boston recently spoke at the annual Mass for lawyers. He
called upon them to protect marriage and block gay marriage.

There was not a word about divorce or domestic violence. Marriage as an
institution has been shattered by heterosexuals. The divorce rate is 50
percent. Clearly the threat to marriage predates gays and lesbians.

There's so much knee-jerking going on over gay marriage it's starting to
look like a Rockettes kick line.

As I wrote last time, if marriage is about kids, gays and lesbians are
already there. Millions of children are being raised by two men or two
women. And the sad thing is that these kids lack legal protections of kids
whose parents are heterosexual.

But marriage under the law is not about children. Marriage in our culture
doesn't necessarily include children. We hear that two people are married
and we ask, "Do they have kids?" Marriage exists without children in our
minds, our language, our society. When people marry, they negotiate whether
to have kids.

The state recognizes children outside of marriage. A single person with a
child is recognized and supported by the legal system, as is the child. The
state safeguards their relationship with all its rights and privileges - for
example, inheritance. Insurance companies automatically extend coverage to
kids.

My point? Outside of religious institutions, marriage is a legal contract, a
state-recognized and legally bolstered relationship. It's not about
sanctity. It's about equity and stability.

There's a lot of desperate talk about polls and activist judges imposing
their will on the people. In the State of the Union speech, Bush said these
judges are acting "without regard for the will of the people and their
elected representatives." He said "the people's voice must be heard."

It is being heard. It was heard in the 1960s, when the Supreme Court struck
down laws prohibiting inter-racial marriage. The courts don't base the
interpretation of law on polls. The polls after racially mixed marriages
became legal showed overwhelming popular dissent. The law didn't care, nor
should it.

Did Bush ask for a poll when the Supreme Court gave him the presidency?

©New Haven Register 2004

Liberalism is Communism one drink at a time. - P.J. O'Rourke
.
User: "Kookie Kampbell of Kanada \KKK"

Title: Re: What is wrong with gay marriage? 04 Mar 2004 04:09:59 PM
"The,Frog.,." <meme@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:rs3f405vhjhjrergp0fg73frva6r8u9shh@4ax.com...


It would appear that the homosexuals are severly over-represented in
this newsgroup.
The fact is, if the majority of the citizens decide to pass this
amendment, it will be the law of the land.

They will do so if they believe it is in the best interests of the
nation.

....and their Preacher!
.
User: "The,Frog.,."

Title: Re: What is wrong with gay marriage? 04 Mar 2004 06:20:24 PM
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:09:59 -0800, "Kookie Kampbell of Kanada \(KKK\)"
<abuse@powergate.ca> wrote:


"The,Frog.,." <meme@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:rs3f405vhjhjrergp0fg73frva6r8u9shh@4ax.com...


It would appear that the homosexuals are severly over-represented in
this newsgroup.
The fact is, if the majority of the citizens decide to pass this
amendment, it will be the law of the land.

They will do so if they believe it is in the best interests of the
nation.


...and their Preacher!

Don't fear democracy......
Liberalism is Communism one drink at a time. - P.J. O'Rourke
.
User: "Blutak"

Title: Re: What is wrong with gay marriage? 05 Mar 2004 06:05:40 AM
"The,Frog.,." <meme@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:rthf401j3l0ak7ds9d7qqhcf2gkqd1trfu@4ax.com...

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:09:59 -0800, "Kookie Kampbell of Kanada \(KKK\)"
<abuse@powergate.ca> wrote:


"The,Frog.,." <meme@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:rs3f405vhjhjrergp0fg73frva6r8u9shh@4ax.com...


It would appear that the homosexuals are severly over-represented in
this newsgroup.
The fact is, if the majority of the citizens decide to pass this
amendment, it will be the law of the land.

They will do so if they believe it is in the best interests of the
nation.


...and their Preacher!


Don't fear democracy......

seems someone is unaware of the differences between majoritarianism and
democracy as political systems........
.

User: "quibbler"

Title: Re: What is wrong with gay marriage? 05 Mar 2004 01:13:02 PM
"The,Frog.,." <meme@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<rthf401j3l0ak7ds9d7qqhcf2gkqd1trfu@4ax.com>...

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:09:59 -0800, "Kookie Kampbell of Kanada \(KKK\)"
<abuse@powergate.ca> wrote:


"The,Frog.,." <meme@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:rs3f405vhjhjrergp0fg73frva6r8u9shh@4ax.com...


It would appear that the homosexuals are severly over-represented in
this newsgroup.
The fact is, if the majority of the citizens decide to pass this
amendment, it will be the law of the land.

They will do so if they believe it is in the best interests of the
nation.


...and their Preacher!


Don't fear democracy......

You do. You only support democracy when you happen to be in the
majority. When Clinton was president you and the rest of your
empty-minded minions railed against being out of power and supported
every anti-democratic maneuver you could think of.

Liberalism is Communism one drink at a time. - P.J. O'Rourke

Conservatism is Fascism and Slavery one shot glass at a time.
.
User: "The,Frog.,."

Title: Re: What is wrong with gay marriage? 05 Mar 2004 04:06:31 PM
On 5 Mar 2004 11:13:02 -0800,
(quibbler) wrote:

"The,Frog.,." <meme@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<rthf401j3l0ak7ds9d7qqhcf2gkqd1trfu@4ax.com>...

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:09:59 -0800, "Kookie Kampbell of Kanada \(KKK\)"
<abuse@powergate.ca> wrote:


"The,Frog.,." <meme@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:rs3f405vhjhjrergp0fg73frva6r8u9shh@4ax.com...


It would appear that the homosexuals are severly over-represented in
this newsgroup.
The fact is, if the majority of the citizens decide to pass this
amendment, it will be the law of the land.

They will do so if they believe it is in the best interests of the
nation.


...and their Preacher!


Don't fear democracy......


You do. You only support democracy when you happen to be in the
majority. When Clinton was president you and the rest of your
empty-minded minions railed against being out of power and supported
every anti-democratic maneuver you could think of.

Nope, I was with Teddy....even then.....
"Nominees deserve a vote. If our . . . colleagues don't like them,
vote against them. But don't just sit on them - that is obstruction of
justice. Free and full debate over judicial nominations is healthy.
The Constitution is clear that only individuals acceptable to both the
President and the Senate should be confirmed. The President and the
Senate do not always agree. But we should resolve these disagreements
by voting on these nominees - yes or no. As Chief Justice Rehnquist
said in his annual report, `The Senate is surely under no obligation
to confirm any particular nominee, but after the necessary time it
should vote' up or down."
144 Cong. Rec. S86 (Jan. 28, 1998) (statement of Sen. Kennedy).
Liberalism is Communism one drink at a time. - P.J. O'Rourke
.


User: "g00"

Title: Re: What is wrong with gay marriage? 05 Mar 2004 09:18:57 AM
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:20:24 -0600, The,Frog.,. wrote:

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:09:59 -0800, "Kookie Kampbell of Kanada \(KKK\)"
<abuse@powergate.ca> wrote:


"The,Frog.,." <meme@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:rs3f405vhjhjrergp0fg73frva6r8u9shh@4ax.com...


It would appear that the homosexuals are severly over-represented in
this newsgroup.
The fact is, if the majority of the citizens decide to pass this
amendment, it will be the law of the land.

They will do so if they believe it is in the best interests of the
nation.


...and their Preacher!


Don't fear democracy......

I don't. I fear Mob Rule.

Liberalism is Communism one drink at a time. - P.J. O'Rourke

--
In Europe, when tobacco was first introduced, it was immediately banned.
In Turkey, if you got caught with tobacco, you had your nose slit. China
and Russia imposed the death penalty for possession of tobacco. ANDREW
WEIL, M.D.
.



User: "g00"

Title: Re: What is wrong with gay marriage? 05 Mar 2004 09:17:43 AM
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:22:12 -0600, The,Frog.,. wrote:


It would appear that the homosexuals are severly over-represented in this
newsgroup.
The fact is, if the majority of the citizens decide to pass this
amendment, it will be the law of the land.

They will do so if they believe it is in the best interests of the nation.


Many have asked you the same thing this poster asks. Each time you ignore
the question. I assume it is because the answer is irrational. You are so
vehemently homophobic and absolutely obsessed with all issues concerning
gays that I would conjecture that you yourself probably have latent
homosexual tendencies and gays are a threat to your sexuality. If you did
not, then this subject would not bother you so much.
If I am wrong, then there must be a legitimate, rational basis for your
opinion. Let's hear it! How has your life or marriage changed since
gays got married in SF (I mean besides giving you more posting material)?


On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:03:24 -0800, "N. Czerniak" <Nate57@cox.net> wrote:

http://www.newhavenregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11050509&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=7581&rfi=6

No one can explain how gays are such a horrible threat by John D.
Anderson
March 2, 2004

Britney Spears and President Bush believe in the sanctity of marriage.
She said so after she got married as a joke in Las Vegas. Bush said so
in his State of the Union speech. This is America, so they are both free
to believe what they want, however disingenuous it sounds in her case and
is beginning to sound in his case.

But none of this has anything to do with the current move to extend legal
marriage to gays and lesbians. We want recognition from the state.
Sanctity is not a legal concern.

Bush seems to think that, like the Roman emperors, his role includes the
function of Pontifex Maximus. This isn't Rome. He was elected to be
president, not high priest. His concerns for the sanctity of marriage are
extraneous to the interpretation of law. No one is suggesting that the
Massachusetts court or any other courts require faith communities to
extend their religious ceremonial where they do not choose.

I've paid careful attention to print media and television whenever there
was a discussion of same-gender marriage.

Robert Wenz of the National Association of Evangelicals a few weeks ago
spoke of marriage "as God designed it" and "God's biological design for
marriage." Bryant Gumbel asked Wenz what the consequences of gays
marrying would be. Wenz just said there was a need to protect marriage.
He never said from what.

James Dobson of Focus on the Family sent a February direct-mail appeal
saying homosexuals were about to "administer a devastating and
potentially fatal blow to the traditional family."

I don't know what this means, but I'm reminded of that period in our
history when blacks for the first time legally got into the swimming pool
and all the whites got out. Will heterosexuals stop getting married if I
can?

No one has been able to specify what this horrible threat to marriage is.

A few months back, I challenged the readers of this newspaper to write in
and help me out on this. Nothing happened. The truth is that gay marriage
in no way affects traditional heterosexual marriage.

The bishop of Boston recently spoke at the annual Mass for lawyers. He
called upon them to protect marriage and block gay marriage.

There was not a word about divorce or domestic violence. Marriage as an
institution has been shattered by heterosexuals. The divorce rate is 50
percent. Clearly the threat to marriage predates gays and lesbians.

There's so much knee-jerking going on over gay marriage it's starting to
look like a Rockettes kick line.

As I wrote last time, if marriage is about kids, gays and lesbians are
already there. Millions of children are being raised by two men or two
women. And the sad thing is that these kids lack legal protections of
kids whose parents are heterosexual.

But marriage under the law is not about children. Marriage in our culture
doesn't necessarily include children. We hear that two people are married
and we ask, "Do they have kids?" Marriage exists without children in our
minds, our language, our society. When people marry, they negotiate
whether to have kids.

The state recognizes children outside of marriage. A single person with a
child is recognized and supported by the legal system, as is the child.
The state safeguards their relationship with all its rights and
privileges - for example, inheritance. Insurance companies automatically
extend coverage to kids.

My point? Outside of religious institutions, marriage is a legal
contract, a state-recognized and legally bolstered relationship. It's not
about sanctity. It's about equity and stability.

There's a lot of desperate talk about polls and activist judges imposing
their will on the people. In the State of the Union speech, Bush said
these judges are acting "without regard for the will of the people and
their elected representatives." He said "the people's voice must be
heard."

It is being heard. It was heard in the 1960s, when the Supreme Court
struck down laws prohibiting inter-racial marriage. The courts don't base
the interpretation of law on polls. The polls after racially mixed
marriages became legal showed overwhelming popular dissent. The law
didn't care, nor should it.

Did Bush ask for a poll when the Supreme Court gave him the presidency?

©New Haven Register 2004



Liberalism is Communism one drink at a time. - P.J. O'Rourke

--
When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained. MARK TWAIN
.



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