| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Geek Floyd" |
| Date: |
10 Oct 2003 07:39:23 PM |
| Object: |
What is your time worth - if we give you freedom, everyone will want it! |
the natural denomination for goods and services is labour-time.
Currency is an artificial construct required for legal reasons.
You sell your time and get currency
to exchange for goods and services.
The actual exchange is between your time and the goods and services.
This ignore non-earned income, but those are the guys who're making the
rules (they want to increase the rent relative to the labour time, so you
end up paying them just for the privilege of staying alive).
On the one hand we want to keep the size of the government fairly
small.
However, there's more and more suffering caused in the name of
convenience of the government.
Please help me with the impact, pros and cons of limiting the
governments theft of our time.
Consider this scenario:
Dear Taxpayer, we lost your 10883432 Form w... Accordingly, by law we
can not compel
You to resubmit that form
Accordingly, if we do not receive a response from you, we will hereby
forgive any taxes owed by you this year.
If we owe you money, we will reprocess your form and add x % to the
amount of your resubmitted return.
Sorry for the inconvenience
Yes, it's a fantasy, but if it was seriously proposed, it would limit
the government to essential constitutional functions. What would be
the negative impact?
Jobs = money money = power power = freedom
Join our new topic board:
http://www.oddhobby.com/H1B/GFMB3xio/index.php
Learn why saving US jobs is not protectionism.
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| User: "Baxter" |
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| Title: Re: What is your time worth - if we give you freedom, everyone will want it! |
10 Oct 2003 09:12:29 PM |
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Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
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"Geek Floyd" <h1b_debate@geakfloyd.com> wrote in message
news:802779f6.0310101639.50fc39c@posting.google.com...
the natural denomination for goods and services is labour-time.
Currency is an artificial construct required for legal reasons.
You sell your time and get currency
to exchange for goods and services.
The actual exchange is between your time and the goods and services.
This ignore non-earned income, but those are the guys who're making the
rules (they want to increase the rent relative to the labour time, so
you
end up paying them just for the privilege of staying alive).
On the one hand we want to keep the size of the government fairly
small.
Why? So there'll be less cops to get in the way of criminals? So there'll
be fewer firemen to protect our property? Frankly, this "small government"
mantra is beginning to get tiresome - particularly when it really means you
really just want things shifted.
.
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| User: "Geek Floyd" |
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| Title: Re: What is your time worth - if we give you freedom, everyone will want it! |
11 Oct 2003 08:54:47 PM |
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"Geek Floyd" <h1b_debate@geakfloyd.com> wrote in message
news:802779f6.0310101639.50fc39c@posting.google.com...
the natural denomination for goods and services is labour-time.
Currency is an artificial construct required for legal reasons.
You sell your time and get currency
to exchange for goods and services.
The actual exchange is between your time and the goods and services.
This ignore non-earned income, but those are the guys who're making the
rules (they want to increase the rent relative to the labour time, so
you
end up paying them just for the privilege of staying alive).
On the one hand we want to keep the size of the government fairly
small.
Why? So there'll be less cops to get in the way of criminals? So there'll
be fewer firemen to protect our property? Frankly, this "small government"
mantra is beginning to get tiresome - particularly when it really means you
really just want things shifted.
....we're not a Republican organization so please take this the right
way: you need to think for yourself and not react like the
propagandists want you to react. One of my favorite Dharma & Greg
episodes showed Dharma going from bureaucrat to bureaucrat to try to
find out where to fight tickets--she was ticketed because she was nice
enough to pay the parking meters for other people, and in that TV
world, it was illegal to do that.
So think for a minute. Have you ever heard any of the right wing
propagandists say that they wanted less police? In fact, the left
wing propagandists say the right wingers like "law and order" too
much. So, your reply doesn't really fit any propaganda from the left
or the right so that's why we think you haven't thought this through.
Next, when we say government, we really mean Federal government.
Although the truth is your local government can violate your
constitution rights more easily and more often than the Feds. Still,
the most important part of this is that smaller government just means
a less "socialist" government. Meaning in a big government your taxes
are wasted, because a greater percentage of the people are dependant
on you and the government but they don't really do anything other than
to vote to keep themselves employed. The single goal of government
should be to keep us happy, not stay in power. The Dems and the
Repubs are only concerned with staying in power and the country is
suffering for it.
So, in a big government when you pay your taxes and you want the money
to go to poor people, only 25 cents out of every dollar makes it to
the poor people, the rest of the money goes to the bureaucrats. That
"25 cents" number is a validated statistic. That's why Clinton had no
choice but to discontinue welfare—the money wasn't making it to the
people. Well that, and Clinton was the poster child for demagogues.
So when people say big government, whether they're Democrat or
Republican, they're talking about waste… they're talking about people
sitting around doing very little work and you are paying their
salaries. They're talking about 2 departments doing the same thing.
And the reason some political parties want big government is because
all those government workers will vote for them, because they want to
keep their jobs.
It has nothing to do with "services". Our government is huge, what
services do you get? It's waste, it's money that could be spent on
the people, us, you, me. Look at the drug war over 2 hundred billion,
that's "billion" dollars. I don't know where that money is going,
but it aint stopping drugs.
For $200,000,000.00 you could put a cop in front of everyone's house
(zero drug use, zero crime) and still have money left over. So even
if we wanted a drug war (and we don't) 200B is way too much for way
too little. Right now we have 11 million pounds of surplus butter.
Even if you want the government to buy butter, there's an 11 million
pound surplus. I could go on and on…
Locally we have a 400 million dollar park (trees, grass etc.) which is
now at least 100 million over budget, we have another 80 million
dollars spent on very high maintenance trees (they're planted in the
streets so, Chicago = winter = salt = dead tree). So I'm paying city
workers to turn the city into a forest.
They just announced they want to be able to search private garages and
give tickets to people who don't have city stickers on their
cars—while the cars are on private property! However, our fire
fighters still don't have a contract or the training they need. Oh,
by training you think I meant anti-terrorism? Nope, they found
paramedics who weren't even trained on the equipment in the "filthy"
uncleaned ambulances. But hey! We have trees!
Propaganda is propaganda. And sometimes it can be hard to know who to
believe. But this one's easy:
Big government ≠ good service
Big government ≠ safety
Big government = waste.
Jobs = money money = power power = freedom
Join our new topic board:
http://www.oddhobby.com/H1B/GFMB3xio/index.php
Learn why saving US jobs is not protectionism.
www.geekfloyd.com
.
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| User: "Vladislav Lubojacky" |
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| Title: Re: What is your time worth - if we give you freedom, everyone willwant it! |
11 Oct 2003 08:24:36 AM |
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Baxter wrote:
"Geek Floyd" <h1b_debate@geakfloyd.com> wrote in message
news:802779f6.0310101639.50fc39c@posting.google.com...
the natural denomination for goods and services is labour-time.
Currency is an artificial construct required for legal reasons.
You sell your time and get currency
to exchange for goods and services.
The actual exchange is between your time and the goods and services.
This ignore non-earned income, but those are the guys who're making the
rules (they want to increase the rent relative to the labour time, so
you
end up paying them just for the privilege of staying alive).
On the one hand we want to keep the size of the government fairly
small.
Why? So there'll be less cops to get in the way of criminals? So there'll
be fewer firemen to protect our property? Frankly, this "small government"
mantra is beginning to get tiresome - particularly when it really means you
really just want things shifted.
First I would first determine in which parts of the goverment, which is
aparently big, you can minimize. Police and firefighters better not.
Where do you want to minimize?
Best Regards
Jack
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| User: "Scott Auge" |
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| Title: Re: What is your time worth - if we give you freedom, everyone willwant it! |
11 Oct 2003 09:35:13 PM |
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Anyone ever notice, that when it comes to cut-back time in the US, it is
either raise taxes or they will cut police and fire? Kinda tells ya
what politicians repect most.
My father was a city manager, and you would not believe the money that
gets handed out.
Money to youth organizations.
Money for economic developement.
Money for city beautification.
Every council meeting has an OKing of the bills or something more to
spend money on.
There are a lot of places to cut money without cutting police and fire.
Vladislav Lubojacky wrote:
Baxter wrote:
"Geek Floyd" <h1b_debate@geakfloyd.com> wrote in message
news:802779f6.0310101639.50fc39c@posting.google.com...
the natural denomination for goods and services is labour-time.
Currency is an artificial construct required for legal reasons.
You sell your time and get currency
to exchange for goods and services.
The actual exchange is between your time and the goods and services.
This ignore non-earned income, but those are the guys who're making the
rules (they want to increase the rent relative to the labour time, so
you
end up paying them just for the privilege of staying alive).
On the one hand we want to keep the size of the government fairly
small.
Why? So there'll be less cops to get in the way of criminals? So
there'll
be fewer firemen to protect our property? Frankly, this "small
government"
mantra is beginning to get tiresome - particularly when it really
means you
really just want things shifted.
First I would first determine in which parts of the goverment, which is
aparently big, you can minimize. Police and firefighters better not.
Where do you want to minimize?
Best Regards
Jack
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