| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"A. Liberl" |
| Date: |
11 Apr 2005 12:05:35 AM |
| Object: |
WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY?
apx. 2.1%
WHY DO LIBERALS PUSH THE 10% GAY MYTH?
For some of them it is not a Myth! In fact, in many cases, more than
10% of their 'Liberal' acquaintances are Gay, but that not an accurate
overall number when you look at the Population as a whole.
How many GAYS do you know? How many Gays go to your Church?
In my case it is less than 0.5%, or 1 in 200.
DO LIBERAL'S HAVE A DIFFERENT AGENDA THAN GAY'S?
Yes!
While many Gays are Liberal's, the 'Liberal Political Activist' wishes
to use the Gay community to build up it's 'manufactured repressed
minority', to create Myth's and to spread Goebellism. They also use
the Gay Agenda to CREATE and HATCH new Liberals!
*Please see "Liberals are not Born they are Hatched"
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=Liberals+are+not+Born+they+are+Hatched
http://www.google.com/search?q=Liberals+are+not+Born+they+are+Hatched
WHY DO THE LIB'S LIE ABOUT THE NUMBERS?
The Liberal's know that if one of their key groups is seen as a
INSIGNIFICANT MINORITY, then they (the Lib's) will be seen as
a INSIGNIFICANT MINORITY too (and they are). So they create
the myth that their GAY's equal a larger percentage than they
really do.
Many of the Lib's want 'Homosexual Tolerance Training' to begin
in the 1st grade where they stand a good chance of confusing 6
year old children, and a better chance of producing more Gays.
*Please see "Liberals are not Born they are Hatched" (link above)
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| User: "Robin" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
11 Apr 2005 08:05:25 AM |
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"A. Liberl" <A@Liberal.org> wrote in message
news:b11k51pcts3phd6lvmc00om3j16m9753bg@4ax.com...
How many GAYS do you know? How many Gays go to your
Church?
In my case it is less than 0.5%, or 1 in 200.
How the ***** would you know how many gay people you know?
Gay people aren't born with a pink triangle in the center of
their forehead, and many gay people only come out to
friends. I have doubts that many gay people would consider
you a friend. And your "church" population is less than
representative of the general population. Many gay people
do not participate in organized religion because today's
"church" is far from inclusive.
<***** snipped>
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| User: "Captain Compassion" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
11 Apr 2005 10:01:08 AM |
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:05:25 GMT, "Robin" <robinandtami@nospam.com>
wrote:
"A. Liberl" <A@Liberal.org> wrote in message
news:b11k51pcts3phd6lvmc00om3j16m9753bg@4ax.com...
How many GAYS do you know? How many Gays go to your
Church?
In my case it is less than 0.5%, or 1 in 200.
How the ***** would you know how many gay people you know?
Gay people aren't born with a pink triangle in the center of
their forehead, and many gay people only come out to
friends. I have doubts that many gay people would consider
you a friend. And your "church" population is less than
representative of the general population. Many gay people
do not participate in organized religion because today's
"church" is far from inclusive.
Gaydar?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love the left. Life isn't a right but death is."
-- Captain Compassion
"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike
"Why would I listen to losers?" -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
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| User: "eldorado" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
11 Apr 2005 08:27:48 AM |
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Robin wrote:
Gay people aren't born with a pink triangle in the center of
their forehead
They aren't???
--
Randomly generated signature --
I feel so miserable without you, it's almost like having you here. (Stephen Bishop)
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| User: "Rodney Kelp" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
11 Apr 2005 11:13:03 AM |
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"A. Liberl" <A@Liberal.org> wrote in message
news:b11k51pcts3phd6lvmc00om3j16m9753bg@4ax.com...
WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY?
apx. 2.1%
WHY DO LIBERALS PUSH THE 10% GAY MYTH?
For some of them it is not a Myth! In fact, in many cases, more than
10% of their 'Liberal' acquaintances are Gay, but that not an accurate
overall number when you look at the Population as a whole.
How many GAYS do you know? How many Gays go to your Church?
In my case it is less than 0.5%, or 1 in 200.
DO LIBERAL'S HAVE A DIFFERENT AGENDA THAN GAY'S?
Yes!
While many Gays are Liberal's, the 'Liberal Political Activist' wishes
to use the Gay community to build up it's 'manufactured repressed
minority', to create Myth's and to spread Goebellism. They also use
the Gay Agenda to CREATE and HATCH new Liberals!
*Please see "Liberals are not Born they are Hatched"
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=Liberals+are+not+Born+they+are+Hatched
http://www.google.com/search?q=Liberals+are+not+Born+they+are+Hatched
WHY DO THE LIB'S LIE ABOUT THE NUMBERS?
The Liberal's know that if one of their key groups is seen as a
INSIGNIFICANT MINORITY, then they (the Lib's) will be seen as
a INSIGNIFICANT MINORITY too (and they are). So they create
the myth that their GAY's equal a larger percentage than they
really do.
Many of the Lib's want 'Homosexual Tolerance Training' to begin
in the 1st grade where they stand a good chance of confusing 6
year old children, and a better chance of producing more Gays.
*Please see "Liberals are not Born they are Hatched" (link above)
Why haven't all the gays died off hundreds of years ago if they can't
reproduce? There shouldn't be any now just through natural selection.
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| User: "Robin" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
11 Apr 2005 06:46:57 PM |
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"Rodney Kelp" <Rodneykelp605@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mPidnS3OBOKaP8ffRVn-qg@adelphia.com...
Why haven't all the gays died off hundreds of years ago if
they can't reproduce? There shouldn't be any now just
through natural selection.
That has to be one of the most ignorant statements I have
ever seen on Usenet. Do you think gay people are born
sterile?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
11 Apr 2005 03:39:42 PM |
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:13:03 -0400, "Rodney Kelp"
<Rodneykelp605@hotmail.com> wrote:
"A. Liberl" <A@Liberal.org> wrote in message
news:b11k51pcts3phd6lvmc00om3j16m9753bg@4ax.com...
WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY?
apx. 2.1%
WHY DO LIBERALS PUSH THE 10% GAY MYTH?
For some of them it is not a Myth! In fact, in many cases, more than
10% of their 'Liberal' acquaintances are Gay, but that not an accurate
overall number when you look at the Population as a whole.
How many GAYS do you know? How many Gays go to your Church?
In my case it is less than 0.5%, or 1 in 200.
DO LIBERAL'S HAVE A DIFFERENT AGENDA THAN GAY'S?
Yes!
While many Gays are Liberal's, the 'Liberal Political Activist' wishes
to use the Gay community to build up it's 'manufactured repressed
minority', to create Myth's and to spread Goebellism. They also use
the Gay Agenda to CREATE and HATCH new Liberals!
*Please see "Liberals are not Born they are Hatched"
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=Liberals+are+not+Born+they+are+Hatched
http://www.google.com/search?q=Liberals+are+not+Born+they+are+Hatched
WHY DO THE LIB'S LIE ABOUT THE NUMBERS?
The Liberal's know that if one of their key groups is seen as a
INSIGNIFICANT MINORITY, then they (the Lib's) will be seen as
a INSIGNIFICANT MINORITY too (and they are). So they create
the myth that their GAY's equal a larger percentage than they
really do.
Many of the Lib's want 'Homosexual Tolerance Training' to begin
in the 1st grade where they stand a good chance of confusing 6
year old children, and a better chance of producing more Gays.
*Please see "Liberals are not Born they are Hatched" (link above)
Why haven't all the gays died off hundreds of years ago if they can't
reproduce? There shouldn't be any now just through natural selection.
It a "life-style" choice.
RECOVERY, CHANGE & HOMOSEXUALITY WHAT THE EXPERTS HAVE TO SAY
by Yvette Cantu
Research Council
People leaving the homosexual lifestyle to recover their heterosexual
identities have received considerable media attention in the past
several months. Although extensive public discussion regarding this
issue is a relatively new phenomenon, psychiatrists and psychologists
have been helping people overcome same-sex attractions for decades.
Medical doctors and mental health professionals agree that men and
women struggling with homosexuality can, and do, change.
The 1973 decision by the American Psychiatric Association to delete
homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (the APA's
official list of disorders) was "not a conclusion based on an
approximation of the scientific truth as dictated by reason, but was
instead an action demanded by the ideological temper of the times,"
according to Dr. Ronald Bayer in Homosexuality and American
Psychiatry:
The Politics of Diagnosis (New York: Basic Books, 1981, pp. 3-4). A
1977 survey conducted by the journal Medical Aspects of Human
Sexuality
reported that 69 percent of the 10,000 psychiatrists polled considered
homosexuality a pathological adaptation.
For over 70 years, prominent medical and mental health professionals
have been helping people who struggle with homosexuality to lose their
same-sex attractions and recover heterosexual identities. Here are
statements from just a few of them:
* "There is at present sufficient evidence that in a majority of cases
homosexuality can be successfully treated by psychoanalysis."
Charles W. Socarides, M.D., Homosexuality (New York: Jason Aronson,
1978), p. 3. Positions held include clinical professor of psychiatry
at
Albert Einstein College of Medicine. In 1995, he received the
Distinguished Professor Award from the Association of Psychoanalytic
Psychologists, British Health Service. He is the current president of
National Association of Research and Therapy of Homosexuality
(N.A.R.T.H.).
* Masters and Johnson reported a 71.6 percent success rate for
patients
leaving homosexuality after a follow-up of six years.
William H. Masters and Virginia E. Johnson, Homosexuality in
Perspective (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1979), pp. 402 and
408.
William H. Masters obtained his M.D. from the University of Rochester.
Positions held: professor of clinical obstetrics and gynecology for
the
School of Medicine of Washington University; director of the
Reproductive Biological Research Foundation; and co-director and
chairman of the board of the Masters and Johnson Institute. Virginia
E.
Johnson obtained her M.D. from the University of Missouri. Positions
held: research director of the Reproductive Biological Research
Foundation and co-director of the Masters and Johnson Institute.
* "The rate of recovery among the homosexuals treated in these groups
is 49 percent."
Dr. Toby Bieber, "Group Therapy with Homosexuals," Comprehensive Group
Psychotherapy, Harold I. Kaplan and Benjamin J. Saddock, eds.
(Baltimore: The Williams and Wilkins Company, 1971), p. 532. Formerly
a
faculty member of New York Medical College, she is now on the
group-therapy faculty of the Contemporary Center for Advanced
Psychoanalytic Studies in New Jersey.
* "In nearly thirty years, I have successfully concluded analyses of
one hundred homosexuals ... and have seen nearly five hundred cases in
consultation. ... On the basis of the experience thus gathered, I make
the positive statement that homosexuality has an excellent prognosis
in
psychiatric-psychoanalytic treatment of one to two years' duration,
with a minimum of three appointments each week provided the patient
really wishes to change."
* "And cure denotes not bisexuality, but real and unfaked
heterosexuality."
* "The color of a person's eyes cannot be changed therapeutically,
but homosexuality can be changed by psychotherapy."
Dr. Edmund Bergler, Homosexuality: Disease or Way of Life (New York:
Collier Books, 1962), pp. 176, 79, 166. Graduated Vienna's Medical
School and served on staff at the Freud Clinic from 1927 to 1937.
* In 1950, Dr. Anna Freud "lectured in New York on the recent advances
in treatment of homosexuals, stating that many of her patients lost
their inversion as a result of analysis. This occurred even in those
who had proclaimed their wish to remain homosexual when entering
treatment, having started only to obtain relief from their homosexual
symptoms."
Dr. Charles Socarides, "Homosexuality," American Handbook of
Psychiatry, 2nd edition, Vol. 3 (New York: Basic Books, Inc., 1974),
p.
308. Dr. Anna Freud studied with her father, Sigmund Freud.
* "I do not believe that there is a basic genetic homosexual tendency
in man. If this were true, the cured patient would still have his
homosexual needs, which he does not."
Dr. Arthur Janov, The Primal Scream (New York: Dell Publishing
Company,
1970), p. 328. Positions held: psychologist and psychiatric social
worker at Los Angeles Children's Hospital and consultant to
California Narcotic Outpatient Program. Developed the Primal Scream
program.
* "The myth that homosexuality is untreatable still has wide currency
among the public at large and among homosexuals themselves. ...
Although some gay liberationists argue that it would be preferable to
help these persons accept their homosexuality, this writer is of the
opinion that, if they wish to change, they deserve the opportunity to
try, with all the help that psychiatry can give them. ..."
Dr. Judd Marmor, "Homosexuality and Sexual Orientation Disturbances,"
Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry II, 2nd edition, (Baltimore: The
Williams & Wilkins Company, 1975), p. 1519. Grad. Columbia University.
Positions held: resident neurologist at Montefiore Hospital; president
of the American Psychiatric Association; and president of American
Academy of Psychoanalysis.
* "There is, nevertheless, continuing conviction among most, although
not all, dynamically oriented psychiatrists in general and
psychoanalysts in particular that homosexuality can and should be
changed to heterosexuality."
Dr. Richard A. Isay, "Homosexuality and Psychiatry," Psychiatric News
(February 7, 1992), p.3. Positions held: Clinical professor of
psychiatry at Cornell Medical College and chair of the American
Psychiatric Association Committee on Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual
Issues.
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| User: "Brian Henderson" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
11 Apr 2005 05:04:14 PM |
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:13:03 -0400, "Rodney Kelp"
<Rodneykelp605@hotmail.com> wrote:
Why haven't all the gays died off hundreds of years ago if they can't
reproduce? There shouldn't be any now just through natural selection.
That only demonstrates your own hopeless ignorance. Surely you could
have looked this up online before you posted and proved what an idiot
you were.
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| User: "Nolo Contendre" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
14 Apr 2005 03:48:45 PM |
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The popular remark is to say one is born with this perference. But if
gays believed such were true there would be no need to remove 'don't
ask - don't tell' in order to do lifestyle recruiting in the armed
services.
As far as a percentageo the population, the gay community likes to
quote a 10% figure. Which was first offered by Kinsey who had no
research or empirical basis by which to justify such a claim.
Do your own investigating and you will find that the most credible
research suggests somewhere between one-third of one percent and three
percent. Ten percent is nonsense.
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| User: "Postmans Holiday" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
15 Apr 2005 09:58:16 AM |
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Do your own investigating and you will find that the most credible
research suggests somewhere between one-third of one percent and
three percent. Ten percent is nonsense.
The ten percent figure is beyond supporting. That figure was provided
by Kinsey in 1948. And he had no basis on which to state such a claim.
Tom W. Smith's exhaustive study, 'Adult Sexual Behavior in 1989:
Numbers of Partners, Frequency and Risk', was conducted among a full
probability sample of the adult U.S. household population. Smith
reported that "Overall... less than 1% [of the study population] is
homosexual." Attempts to adjust for a favorable margin of error and by
geography (for example, favoring a high sample population from San
Francisco and New York) was unsuccessful in even reaching as high as
three precent.
Smith's results also correspond to independent research in France and
England. Science magazine, July 3, 1992, reported on a recent French
study that found only 1.1% of men and 0.3% of women said they'd had
homosexual intercourse in the past 12 months (as reported in
"Homosexual figures grossly exaggerated," AFA Journal, September, 1992,
pg. 9).
In 1994 The London Daily Mail released what it called `the most
exhaustive survey ever conducted into British sexual habits.' They
reported that the most stunning finding was that, "only 1.1 percent of
British men said they were active homosexuals, a figure similar to the
most recent reliable American polls." (World magazine, Jan. 29, 1994,
p. 9).
In the past 10/15 years successful lobbying efforts and political
correctness has prevented additional research from being initiated.
And in the current political climate no University or private research
enterprise would dare to implement such a study. Using the ten percent
figure, gays can argue that they have political and economic clout.
Were the actual figure made known, claims of political and economic
influence become less than insignificant.
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| User: "Sho Nuff" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
14 Apr 2005 04:32:20 PM |
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Also, they may well be born with such leanings just as the junkie has the
gene for it and the drunk, and the thief. Being bent towards a certain
anti-social act is NOT against the laws, actually ACTING OUT in the public
arena is where they run into the problem.
"Nolo Contendre" <jerry_jn@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113511725.089178.187080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
The popular remark is to say one is born with this perference. But if
gays believed such were true there would be no need to remove 'don't
ask - don't tell' in order to do lifestyle recruiting in the armed
services.
As far as a percentageo the population, the gay community likes to
quote a 10% figure. Which was first offered by Kinsey who had no
research or empirical basis by which to justify such a claim.
Do your own investigating and you will find that the most credible
research suggests somewhere between one-third of one percent and three
percent. Ten percent is nonsense.
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| User: "Rod Gazinia" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
14 Apr 2005 03:58:51 PM |
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On 14 Apr 2005 13:48:45 -0700, "Nolo Contendre" <jerry_jn@hotmail.com>
wrote:
As far as a percentageo the population, the gay community likes to
quote a 10% figure. Which was first offered by Kinsey who had no
research or empirical basis by which to justify such a claim.
there is plenty of credible evidence that KINSEY was wrong
and deliberately trying to mislead...
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| User: "eldorado" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
14 Apr 2005 04:27:43 PM |
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On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, Nolo Contendre wrote:
The popular remark is to say one is born with this perference. But if
gays believed such were true there would be no need to remove 'don't
ask - don't tell' in order to do lifestyle recruiting in the armed
services.
This paragraph was a joke right? You dont actually believe gays join
the military to "recruit"? Do you really believe the gay lifestyle is so
alluring that someone would join simply because their army buddy asked
them to?!?
--
Randomly generated signature --
Procrastination means never having to say you're sorry.
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| User: "Nolo Contendre" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
15 Apr 2005 10:06:08 AM |
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Were you in one of the armed services before 'Don't ask'? If so then
you would have known there were gay members. And they were ignored
until they decided to recruit others to their lifestyle. At which time
they received a discharge. And those who didn't try and turn some young
kid who was alone for the first time, were not bothered. I often
wondered about that - since we have been told that one was born with
this preference - why did they feel a need to recruit?
And if they do not recruit, why do gays continue to scream about 'Don't
ask, don't tell'? Since they received exactly what they wanted, an
opportunity to serve in the armed services. I do not recall any
homosexual advocate demanding recruiting privileges when Clinton was
developing his 'don't ask...' policy.
What is so wrong with the Clinton policy? Is it that difficult to keep
your sexual preference to yourself?
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| User: "Sho Nuff" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
15 Apr 2005 03:31:02 PM |
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Yes, I was in before the DON'T ASK came into being. And YES - there was
active recruiting going on within the ranks drawing more into the homosexual
lifestyle.
I do NOT say that recruiting was their sole reason for being in uniform, I
DO say that recruiting was ONE of the reasons.
"Nolo Contendre" <jerry_jn@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113574475.699748.235960@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Were you in one of the armed services before 'Don't ask'? If so then
you would have known there were gay members. And they were ignored
until they decided to recruit others to their lifestyle. At which time
they received a discharge. And those who didn't try and turn some young
kid who was alone for the first time, were not bothered. I often
wondered about that - since we have been told that one was born with
this preference - why did they feel a need to recruit?
And if they do not recruit, why do gays continue to scream about 'Don't
ask, don't tell'? Since they received exactly what they wanted, an
opportunity to serve in the armed services. I do not recall any
homosexual advocate demanding recruiting privileges when Clinton was
developing his 'don't ask...' policy.
What is so wrong with the Clinton policy? Is it that difficult to keep
your sexual preference to yourself?
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| User: "abracadabra" |
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| Title: Re: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY? |
11 Apr 2005 09:45:52 AM |
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"A. Liberl" <A@Liberal.org> wrote in message
news:b11k51pcts3phd6lvmc00om3j16m9753bg@4ax.com...
WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS GAY?
apx. 2.1%
Actually about 10%
Do you have any citation that claims it is only 2.1%?
And does discrimination become better if the minority is smaller?>
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| User: "eldorado" |
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| Title: In fairness to the right... |
12 Apr 2005 07:22:16 AM |
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Not all members of the right wing want to legislate the bedroom.
http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2005/04/10/news/breaking_news/doc425905e5231ec347011137.txt
Republican lawmaker urging end to `don't ask, don't tell' policy
By Steve Rothaus, Knight Ridder Newspapers (KRT)
MIAMI -- At odds with her party's leadership, Republican Congresswoman
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida is urging the Pentagon to end "don't ask,
don't tell" and allow gay men and lesbians to join and remain in the
military.
"We've tried the policy. I don't think it works. And we've spent a lot of
money enforcing it," said Ros-Lehtinen, a member of the Subcommittee on
National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations, who
became a co-sponsor of the bill on Tuesday.
"We investigate people. Bring them up on charges. Basically wreck their
lives. ... People who've signed up to serve our country. We should be
thanking them," she said.
Although her support won't change the law overnight, it represents a
dramatic break with GOP leadership over a hot-button issue that has split
the party and the nation.
Ros-Lehtinen, along with House Republicans Christopher Shays of
Connecticut and Jim Kolbe of Arizona, joins 70 Democrats in support of the
Military Readiness Enhancement Act, introduced by Rep. Marty Meehan,
D-Mass., last month to repeal the longtime gay ban.
"Don't ask, don't tell" became law in 1993, a compromise after President
Bill Clinton sought to relax military policy and allow gays to serve
openly. The law, which easily passed in both the House and Senate,
prohibits commanders and investigators from prying into a service member's
sex life, but calls for military discharge if someone in the armed service
acknowledges he or she is gay.
"It doesn't make any sense," Ros-Lehtinen said of the ban. "There's no
scientific evidence that sexual orientation has an effect on the ability
to perform as a military officer or a buck private."
For several years, Ros-Lehtinen has taken a leadership role in backing
pro-gay legislation. She has co-sponsored or supported:
--A federal hate-crimes act.
--A bill that protects gays from federal employment discrimination.
--Laws that increased funding for HIV/AIDS prevention.
Nearly 10,000 men and women have been discharged under "don't ask, don't
tell," which has cost the U.S. government more than $200 million to
enforce since passage in 1993, according to the Servicemembers Legal
Defense Network , a Washington gay-rights group.
Last week, an Army sergeant who was awarded a Purple Heart after being
wounded in Iraq publicly disclosed his homosexuality. He risks going to
jail and an early discharge from the service.
"I know a ton of gay men that would be more than willing to stay in the
Army if they could just be open," Sgt. Robert Stout, 23, told The
Associated Press. "But if we have to stay here and hide our lives all the
time, it's just not worth it."
Ros-Lehtinen, 52, said the military "should get the best men and women
regardless of their sexual orientation."
"It doesn't seem the best military tradition to exclude people because of
their sexual orientation," she said. "They can serve with as much
distinction as anyone else."
Ros-Lehtinen's husband, former acting U.S. Attorney Dexter Lehtinen, 59,
was awarded a Purple Heart for severe facial injuries he received during
Army combat in Vietnam. And her stepson, Douglas Lehtinen, 28, is a Marine
officer scheduled to be deployed this summer to Iraq.
"We've had these discussions in our family," Ros-Lehtinen said. "Douglas
would have no problem serving alongside anyone who's capable."
"In Iraq and Afghanistan we are fighting alongside coalition forces that
have in them gay men and women," Ros-Lehtinen said. "England is actively
recruiting gay men and women to join their armed forces."
Ros-Lehtinen said she has heard the arguments against allowing them to
serve (straight men not wanting to shower with gay men, etc.) and that
they're "ludicrous."
"It's the same kind of talk we heard about women serving in the military
and African Americans," she said.
Congressmen Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla., and Robert Wexler, D-Fla., also are
co-sponsors of lifting the gay ban.
"If you're in the military, the only concern should be if you shoot
straight -- not if you are straight," Hastings said.
The bill -- which has no companion legislation in the Senate -- has a long
way to go before becoming law. First, it needs to get out of committee.
"The odds are very small, unless the top military brass would embrace it,"
Wexler said. "When was the last time it snowed in South Florida?"
U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., who chairs the House Armed Services
Committee, has consistently voted against gay-rights issues, according to
Human Rights Campaign, a pro-gay Washington group that ranks lawmakers on
a scale of 0 to 100, 100 being the highest level of support.
Hunter ranks 0; Ros-Lehtinen ranks 86, according to HRC's 2004 report.
Two years ago, HRC sent Ros-Lehtinen a thank-you note for "the totality of
her record, not just one vote."
Ros-Lehtinen "has really taken a leadership issue on repealing the
military's gay ban among Republicans," said Steve Ralls, communications
director for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network.
"Her endorsement, her sponsorship of the bill, is going to lead a lot of
other moderate Republicans in the House to come on board," he said.
Perhaps, but it's unlikely Ros-Lehtinen will sway conservative GOP leaders
including House Speaker Tom DeLay.
"The other side has been systematically, over time, desensitizing the
American people into thinking that this is an acceptable lifestyle. It is
not acceptable," DeLay told The Miami Herald in a 1998 discussion about
gay rights. "It is wrong. It is dangerous. It destroys families. It
destroys people."
Ros-Lehtinen says she will staunchly support the repeal until it happens.
"It's a process -- a learning process. It takes a long time to get people
to change their minds. I don't get frustrated. If I did, I wouldn't keep
talking about the Cuban embargo every day."
--
Randomly generated signature --
Earn cash in your spare time--blackmail your friends.
.
|
|
|
| User: "abracadabra" |
|
| Title: Re: In fairness to the right... |
12 Apr 2005 10:41:32 AM |
|
|
"eldorado" <eldorado@io.com> wrote in message
news:20050412071451.D70842@eris.io.com...
Not all members of the right wing want to legislate the bedroom.
http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2005/04/10/news/breaking_news/doc425905e5231ec347011137.txt
Republican lawmaker urging end to `don't ask, don't tell' policy
By Steve Rothaus, Knight Ridder Newspapers (KRT)
MIAMI -- At odds with her party's leadership, Republican Congresswoman
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida is urging the Pentagon to end "don't ask,
don't tell" and allow gay men and lesbians to join and remain in the
military.
You mean it wasn't good policy to throw out translators because they might
be gay?
.
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|
| User: "Sho Nuff" |
|
| Title: Re: In fairness to the right... |
12 Apr 2005 04:01:01 PM |
|
|
Why be fair to the right now? Must be some further perversion of the real
truth you are about to spew...
There is a valid reason by the symbol of the Democrats is a JACKASS.
"eldorado" <eldorado@io.com> wrote in message
news:20050412071451.D70842@eris.io.com...
Not all members of the right wing want to legislate the bedroom.
http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2005/04/10/news/breaking_news/doc425905e5231ec347011137.txt
Republican lawmaker urging end to `don't ask, don't tell' policy
By Steve Rothaus, Knight Ridder Newspapers (KRT)
MIAMI -- At odds with her party's leadership, Republican Congresswoman
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida is urging the Pentagon to end "don't ask,
don't tell" and allow gay men and lesbians to join and remain in the
military.
"We've tried the policy. I don't think it works. And we've spent a lot of
money enforcing it," said Ros-Lehtinen, a member of the Subcommittee on
National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations, who
became a co-sponsor of the bill on Tuesday.
"We investigate people. Bring them up on charges. Basically wreck their
lives. ... People who've signed up to serve our country. We should be
thanking them," she said.
Although her support won't change the law overnight, it represents a
dramatic break with GOP leadership over a hot-button issue that has split
the party and the nation.
Ros-Lehtinen, along with House Republicans Christopher Shays of
Connecticut and Jim Kolbe of Arizona, joins 70 Democrats in support of the
Military Readiness Enhancement Act, introduced by Rep. Marty Meehan,
D-Mass., last month to repeal the longtime gay ban.
"Don't ask, don't tell" became law in 1993, a compromise after President
Bill Clinton sought to relax military policy and allow gays to serve
openly. The law, which easily passed in both the House and Senate,
prohibits commanders and investigators from prying into a service member's
sex life, but calls for military discharge if someone in the armed service
acknowledges he or she is gay.
"It doesn't make any sense," Ros-Lehtinen said of the ban. "There's no
scientific evidence that sexual orientation has an effect on the ability
to perform as a military officer or a buck private."
For several years, Ros-Lehtinen has taken a leadership role in backing
pro-gay legislation. She has co-sponsored or supported:
--A federal hate-crimes act.
--A bill that protects gays from federal employment discrimination.
--Laws that increased funding for HIV/AIDS prevention.
Nearly 10,000 men and women have been discharged under "don't ask, don't
tell," which has cost the U.S. government more than $200 million to
enforce since passage in 1993, according to the Servicemembers Legal
Defense Network , a Washington gay-rights group.
Last week, an Army sergeant who was awarded a Purple Heart after being
wounded in Iraq publicly disclosed his homosexuality. He risks going to
jail and an early discharge from the service.
"I know a ton of gay men that would be more than willing to stay in the
Army if they could just be open," Sgt. Robert Stout, 23, told The
Associated Press. "But if we have to stay here and hide our lives all the
time, it's just not worth it."
Ros-Lehtinen, 52, said the military "should get the best men and women
regardless of their sexual orientation."
"It doesn't seem the best military tradition to exclude people because of
their sexual orientation," she said. "They can serve with as much
distinction as anyone else."
Ros-Lehtinen's husband, former acting U.S. Attorney Dexter Lehtinen, 59,
was awarded a Purple Heart for severe facial injuries he received during
Army combat in Vietnam. And her stepson, Douglas Lehtinen, 28, is a Marine
officer scheduled to be deployed this summer to Iraq.
"We've had these discussions in our family," Ros-Lehtinen said. "Douglas
would have no problem serving alongside anyone who's capable."
"In Iraq and Afghanistan we are fighting alongside coalition forces that
have in them gay men and women," Ros-Lehtinen said. "England is actively
recruiting gay men and women to join their armed forces."
Ros-Lehtinen said she has heard the arguments against allowing them to
serve (straight men not wanting to shower with gay men, etc.) and that
they're "ludicrous."
"It's the same kind of talk we heard about women serving in the military
and African Americans," she said.
Congressmen Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla., and Robert Wexler, D-Fla., also are
co-sponsors of lifting the gay ban.
"If you're in the military, the only concern should be if you shoot
straight -- not if you are straight," Hastings said.
The bill -- which has no companion legislation in the Senate -- has a long
way to go before becoming law. First, it needs to get out of committee.
"The odds are very small, unless the top military brass would embrace it,"
Wexler said. "When was the last time it snowed in South Florida?"
U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., who chairs the House Armed Services
Committee, has consistently voted against gay-rights issues, according to
Human Rights Campaign, a pro-gay Washington group that ranks lawmakers on
a scale of 0 to 100, 100 being the highest level of support.
Hunter ranks 0; Ros-Lehtinen ranks 86, according to HRC's 2004 report.
Two years ago, HRC sent Ros-Lehtinen a thank-you note for "the totality of
her record, not just one vote."
Ros-Lehtinen "has really taken a leadership issue on repealing the
military's gay ban among Republicans," said Steve Ralls, communications
director for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network.
"Her endorsement, her sponsorship of the bill, is going to lead a lot of
other moderate Republicans in the House to come on board," he said.
Perhaps, but it's unlikely Ros-Lehtinen will sway conservative GOP leaders
including House Speaker Tom DeLay.
"The other side has been systematically, over time, desensitizing the
American people into thinking that this is an acceptable lifestyle. It is
not acceptable," DeLay told The Miami Herald in a 1998 discussion about
gay rights. "It is wrong. It is dangerous. It destroys families. It
destroys people."
Ros-Lehtinen says she will staunchly support the repeal until it happens.
"It's a process -- a learning process. It takes a long time to get people
to change their minds. I don't get frustrated. If I did, I wouldn't keep
talking about the Cuban embargo every day."
--
Randomly generated signature --
Earn cash in your spare time--blackmail your friends.
.
|
|
|
| User: "eldorado" |
|
| Title: Re: In fairness to the right... |
13 Apr 2005 06:23:42 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Sho Nuff wrote:
Why be fair to the right now? Must be some further perversion of the real
truth you are about to spew...
Why do you get so upset when I try to point out that not all republicans
want to legislate the bedroom? Unless, of course, you like prying into
other peoples bedrooms.
"eldorado" <eldorado@io.com> wrote in message
news:20050412071451.D70842@eris.io.com...
Not all members of the right wing want to legislate the bedroom.
http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2005/04/10/news/breaking_news/doc425905e5231ec347011137.txt
Republican lawmaker urging end to `don't ask, don't tell' policy
By Steve Rothaus, Knight Ridder Newspapers (KRT)
MIAMI -- At odds with her party's leadership, Republican Congresswoman
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida is urging the Pentagon to end "don't ask,
don't tell" and allow gay men and lesbians to join and remain in the
military.
"We've tried the policy. I don't think it works. And we've spent a lot of
money enforcing it," said Ros-Lehtinen, a member of the Subcommittee on
National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations, who
became a co-sponsor of the bill on Tuesday.
"We investigate people. Bring them up on charges. Basically wreck their
lives. ... People who've signed up to serve our country. We should be
thanking them," she said.
Although her support won't change the law overnight, it represents a
dramatic break with GOP leadership over a hot-button issue that has split
the party and the nation.
Ros-Lehtinen, along with House Republicans Christopher Shays of
Connecticut and Jim Kolbe of Arizona, joins 70 Democrats in support of the
Military Readiness Enhancement Act, introduced by Rep. Marty Meehan,
D-Mass., last month to repeal the longtime gay ban.
"Don't ask, don't tell" became law in 1993, a compromise after President
Bill Clinton sought to relax military policy and allow gays to serve
openly. The law, which easily passed in both the House and Senate,
prohibits commanders and investigators from prying into a service member's
sex life, but calls for military discharge if someone in the armed service
acknowledges he or she is gay.
"It doesn't make any sense," Ros-Lehtinen said of the ban. "There's no
scientific evidence that sexual orientation has an effect on the ability
to perform as a military officer or a buck private."
For several years, Ros-Lehtinen has taken a leadership role in backing
pro-gay legislation. She has co-sponsored or supported:
--A federal hate-crimes act.
--A bill that protects gays from federal employment discrimination.
--Laws that increased funding for HIV/AIDS prevention.
Nearly 10,000 men and women have been discharged under "don't ask, don't
tell," which has cost the U.S. government more than $200 million to
enforce since passage in 1993, according to the Servicemembers Legal
Defense Network , a Washington gay-rights group.
Last week, an Army sergeant who was awarded a Purple Heart after being
wounded in Iraq publicly disclosed his homosexuality. He risks going to
jail and an early discharge from the service.
"I know a ton of gay men that would be more than willing to stay in the
Army if they could just be open," Sgt. Robert Stout, 23, told The
Associated Press. "But if we have to stay here and hide our lives all the
time, it's just not worth it."
Ros-Lehtinen, 52, said the military "should get the best men and women
regardless of their sexual orientation."
"It doesn't seem the best military tradition to exclude people because of
their sexual orientation," she said. "They can serve with as much
distinction as anyone else."
Ros-Lehtinen's husband, former acting U.S. Attorney Dexter Lehtinen, 59,
was awarded a Purple Heart for severe facial injuries he received during
Army combat in Vietnam. And her stepson, Douglas Lehtinen, 28, is a Marine
officer scheduled to be deployed this summer to Iraq.
"We've had these discussions in our family," Ros-Lehtinen said. "Douglas
would have no problem serving alongside anyone who's capable."
"In Iraq and Afghanistan we are fighting alongside coalition forces that
have in them gay men and women," Ros-Lehtinen said. "England is actively
recruiting gay men and women to join their armed forces."
Ros-Lehtinen said she has heard the arguments against allowing them to
serve (straight men not wanting to shower with gay men, etc.) and that
they're "ludicrous."
"It's the same kind of talk we heard about women serving in the military
and African Americans," she said.
Congressmen Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla., and Robert Wexler, D-Fla., also are
co-sponsors of lifting the gay ban.
"If you're in the military, the only concern should be if you shoot
straight -- not if you are straight," Hastings said.
The bill -- which has no companion legislation in the Senate -- has a long
way to go before becoming law. First, it needs to get out of committee.
"The odds are very small, unless the top military brass would embrace it,"
Wexler said. "When was the last time it snowed in South Florida?"
U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., who chairs the House Armed Services
Committee, has consistently voted against gay-rights issues, according to
Human Rights Campaign, a pro-gay Washington group that ranks lawmakers on
a scale of 0 to 100, 100 being the highest level of support.
Hunter ranks 0; Ros-Lehtinen ranks 86, according to HRC's 2004 report.
Two years ago, HRC sent Ros-Lehtinen a thank-you note for "the totality of
her record, not just one vote."
Ros-Lehtinen "has really taken a leadership issue on repealing the
military's gay ban among Republicans," said Steve Ralls, communications
director for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network.
"Her endorsement, her sponsorship of the bill, is going to lead a lot of
other moderate Republicans in the House to come on board," he said.
Perhaps, but it's unlikely Ros-Lehtinen will sway conservative GOP leaders
including House Speaker Tom DeLay.
"The other side has been systematically, over time, desensitizing the
American people into thinking that this is an acceptable lifestyle. It is
not acceptable," DeLay told The Miami Herald in a 1998 discussion about
gay rights. "It is wrong. It is dangerous. It destroys families. It
destroys people."
Ros-Lehtinen says she will staunchly support the repeal until it happens.
"It's a process -- a learning process. It takes a long time to get people
to change their minds. I don't get frustrated. If I did, I wouldn't keep
talking about the Cuban embargo every day."
--
Randomly generated signature --
Earn cash in your spare time--blackmail your friends.
--
Randomly generated signature --
"I'm the crazy one who thinks that words reach people." - Anne Sexton
.
|
|
|
| User: "Sho Nuff" |
|
| Title: Re: In fairness to the right... |
13 Apr 2005 03:42:48 PM |
|
|
The SPIRIT of the laws are to maintain your privacy, and mine. In your
bedroom is YOUR business. When you try to make others ACCEPT it as good and
normal it is violating the privacy of those others.
So, go ahead and grease up your butt if you want to but PLEASE shut the
door!!
"eldorado" <eldorado@io.com> wrote in message
news:20050413062149.L23428@eris.io.com...
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Sho Nuff wrote:
Why be fair to the right now? Must be some further perversion of the
real
truth you are about to spew...
Why do you get so upset when I try to point out that not all republicans
want to legislate the bedroom? Unless, of course, you like prying into
other peoples bedrooms.
"eldorado" <eldorado@io.com> wrote in message
news:20050412071451.D70842@eris.io.com...
Not all members of the right wing want to legislate the bedroom.
http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2005/04/10/news/breaking_news/doc425905e5231ec347011137.txt
Republican lawmaker urging end to `don't ask, don't tell' policy
By Steve Rothaus, Knight Ridder Newspapers (KRT)
MIAMI -- At odds with her party's leadership, Republican Congresswoman
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida is urging the Pentagon to end "don't ask,
don't tell" and allow gay men and lesbians to join and remain in the
military.
"We've tried the policy. I don't think it works. And we've spent a lot
of
money enforcing it," said Ros-Lehtinen, a member of the Subcommittee on
National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations, who
became a co-sponsor of the bill on Tuesday.
"We investigate people. Bring them up on charges. Basically wreck their
lives. ... People who've signed up to serve our country. We should be
thanking them," she said.
Although her support won't change the law overnight, it represents a
dramatic break with GOP leadership over a hot-button issue that has
split
the party and the nation.
Ros-Lehtinen, along with House Republicans Christopher Shays of
Connecticut and Jim Kolbe of Arizona, joins 70 Democrats in support of
the
Military Readiness Enhancement Act, introduced by Rep. Marty Meehan,
D-Mass., last month to repeal the longtime gay ban.
"Don't ask, don't tell" became law in 1993, a compromise after President
Bill Clinton sought to relax military policy and allow gays to serve
openly. The law, which easily passed in both the House and Senate,
prohibits commanders and investigators from prying into a service
member's
sex life, but calls for military discharge if someone in the armed
service
acknowledges he or she is gay.
"It doesn't make any sense," Ros-Lehtinen said of the ban. "There's no
scientific evidence that sexual orientation has an effect on the ability
to perform as a military officer or a buck private."
For several years, Ros-Lehtinen has taken a leadership role in backing
pro-gay legislation. She has co-sponsored or supported:
--A federal hate-crimes act.
--A bill that protects gays from federal employment discrimination.
--Laws that increased funding for HIV/AIDS prevention.
Nearly 10,000 men and women have been discharged under "don't ask, don't
tell," which has cost the U.S. government more than $200 million to
enforce since passage in 1993, according to the Servicemembers Legal
Defense Network , a Washington gay-rights group.
Last week, an Army sergeant who was awarded a Purple Heart after being
wounded in Iraq publicly disclosed his homosexuality. He risks going to
jail and an early discharge from the service.
"I know a ton of gay men that would be more than willing to stay in the
Army if they could just be open," Sgt. Robert Stout, 23, told The
Associated Press. "But if we have to stay here and hide our lives all
the
time, it's just not worth it."
Ros-Lehtinen, 52, said the military "should get the best men and women
regardless of their sexual orientation."
"It doesn't seem the best military tradition to exclude people because
of
their sexual orientation," she said. "They can serve with as much
distinction as anyone else."
Ros-Lehtinen's husband, former acting U.S. Attorney Dexter Lehtinen, 59,
was awarded a Purple Heart for severe facial injuries he received during
Army combat in Vietnam. And her stepson, Douglas Lehtinen, 28, is a
Marine
officer scheduled to be deployed this summer to Iraq.
"We've had these discussions in our family," Ros-Lehtinen said. "Douglas
would have no problem serving alongside anyone who's capable."
"In Iraq and Afghanistan we are fighting alongside coalition forces that
have in them gay men and women," Ros-Lehtinen said. "England is actively
recruiting gay men and women to join their armed forces."
Ros-Lehtinen said she has heard the arguments against allowing them to
serve (straight men not wanting to shower with gay men, etc.) and that
they're "ludicrous."
"It's the same kind of talk we heard about women serving in the military
and African Americans," she said.
Congressmen Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla., and Robert Wexler, D-Fla., also
are
co-sponsors of lifting the gay ban.
"If you're in the military, the only concern should be if you shoot
straight -- not if you are straight," Hastings said.
The bill -- which has no companion legislation in the Senate -- has a
long
way to go before becoming law. First, it needs to get out of committee.
"The odds are very small, unless the top military brass would embrace
it,"
Wexler said. "When was the last time it snowed in South Florida?"
U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., who chairs the House Armed Services
Committee, has consistently voted against gay-rights issues, according
to
Human Rights Campaign, a pro-gay Washington group that ranks lawmakers
on
a scale of 0 to 100, 100 being the highest level of support.
Hunter ranks 0; Ros-Lehtinen ranks 86, according to HRC's 2004 report.
Two years ago, HRC sent Ros-Lehtinen a thank-you note for "the totality
of
her record, not just one vote."
Ros-Lehtinen "has really taken a leadership issue on repealing the
military's gay ban among Republicans," said Steve Ralls, communications
director for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network.
"Her endorsement, her sponsorship of the bill, is going to lead a lot of
other moderate Republicans in the House to come on board," he said.
Perhaps, but it's unlikely Ros-Lehtinen will sway conservative GOP
leaders
including House Speaker Tom DeLay.
"The other side has been systematically, over time, desensitizing the
American people into thinking that this is an acceptable lifestyle. It
is
not acceptable," DeLay told The Miami Herald in a 1998 discussion about
gay rights. "It is wrong. It is dangerous. It destroys families. It
destroys people."
Ros-Lehtinen says she will staunchly support the repeal until it
happens.
"It's a process -- a learning process. It takes a long time to get
people
to change their minds. I don't get frustrated. If I did, I wouldn't keep
talking about the Cuban embargo every day."
--
Randomly generated signature --
Earn cash in your spare time--blackmail your friends.
--
Randomly generated signature --
"I'm the crazy one who thinks that words reach people." - Anne Sexton
.
|
|
|
| User: "eldorado" |
|
| Title: Re: In fairness to the right... |
14 Apr 2005 07:15:11 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Sho Nuff wrote:
The SPIRIT of the laws are to maintain your privacy, and mine. In your
bedroom is YOUR business. When you try to make others ACCEPT it as good and
normal it is violating the privacy of those others.
Funny how times have changed, 10 years ago (give or take) the right wing
was celebrating Bowers V Hardwick. In which it was ok for police to
arrest two gay men in the privacy of their bedroom. Progress may be slow
in coming for the Republican party, but times they are a-changin'. In
addition to the article I posted below, Republican Gov. M. Jodi Rell of
Connecticut has stated she would sign the Civil Union bill that
was voted on in the state Senate.
"eldorado" <eldorado@io.com> wrote in message
news:20050413062149.L23428@eris.io.com...
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Sho Nuff wrote:
Why be fair to the right now? Must be some further perversion of the
real
truth you are about to spew...
Why do you get so upset when I try to point out that not all republicans
want to legislate the bedroom? Unless, of course, you like prying into
other peoples bedrooms.
"eldorado" <eldorado@io.com> wrote in message
news:20050412071451.D70842@eris.io.com...
Not all members of the right wing want to legislate the bedroom.
http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2005/04/10/news/breaking_news/doc425905e5231ec347011137.txt
Republican lawmaker urging end to `don't ask, don't tell' policy
By Steve Rothaus, Knight Ridder Newspapers (KRT)
MIAMI -- At odds with her party's leadership, Republican Congresswoman
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida is urging the Pentagon to end "don't ask,
don't tell" and allow gay men and lesbians to join and remain in the
military.
"We've tried the policy. I don't think it works. And we've spent a lot
of
money enforcing it," said Ros-Lehtinen, a member of the Subcommittee on
National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations, who
became a co-sponsor of the bill on Tuesday.
"We investigate people. Bring them up on charges. Basically wreck their
lives. ... People who've signed up to serve our country. We should be
thanking them," she said.
Although her support won't change the law overnight, it represents a
dramatic break with GOP leadership over a hot-button issue that has
split
the party and the nation.
Ros-Lehtinen, along with House Republicans Christopher Shays of
Connecticut and Jim Kolbe of Arizona, joins 70 Democrats in support of
the
Military Readiness Enhancement Act, introduced by Rep. Marty Meehan,
D-Mass., last month to repeal the longtime gay ban.
"Don't ask, don't tell" became law in 1993, a compromise after President
Bill Clinton sought to relax military policy and allow gays to serve
openly. The law, which easily passed in both the House and Senate,
prohibits commanders and investigators from prying into a service
member's
sex life, but calls for military discharge if someone in the armed
service
acknowledges he or she is gay.
"It doesn't make any sense," Ros-Lehtinen said of the ban. "There's no
scientific evidence that sexual orientation has an effect on the ability
to perform as a military officer or a buck private."
For several years, Ros-Lehtinen has taken a leadership role in backing
pro-gay legislation. She has co-sponsored or supported:
--A federal hate-crimes act.
--A bill that protects gays from federal employment discrimination.
--Laws that increased funding for HIV/AIDS prevention.
Nearly 10,000 men and women have been discharged under "don't ask, don't
tell," which has cost the U.S. government more than $200 million to
enforce since passage in 1993, according to the Servicemembers Legal
Defense Network , a Washington gay-rights group.
Last week, an Army sergeant who was awarded a Purple Heart after being
wounded in Iraq publicly disclosed his homosexuality. He risks going to
jail and an early discharge from the service.
"I know a ton of gay men that would be more than willing to stay in the
Army if they could just be open," Sgt. Robert Stout, 23, told The
Associated Press. "But if we have to stay here and hide our lives all
the
time, it's just not worth it."
Ros-Lehtinen, 52, said the military "should get the best men and women
regardless of their sexual orientation."
"It doesn't seem the best military tradition to exclude people because
of
their sexual orientation," she said. "They can serve with as much
distinction as anyone else."
Ros-Lehtinen's husband, former acting U.S. Attorney Dexter Lehtinen, 59,
was awarded a Purple Heart for severe facial injuries he received during
Army combat in Vietnam. And her stepson, Douglas Lehtinen, 28, is a
Marine
officer scheduled to be deployed this summer to Iraq.
"We've had these discussions in our family," Ros-Lehtinen said. "Douglas
would have no problem serving alongside anyone who's capable."
"In Iraq and Afghanistan we are fighting alongside coalition forces that
have in them gay men and women," Ros-Lehtinen said. "England is actively
recruiting gay men and women to join their armed forces."
Ros-Lehtinen said she has heard the arguments against allowing them to
serve (straight men not wanting to shower with gay men, etc.) and that
they're "ludicrous."
"It's the same kind of talk we heard about women serving in the military
and African Americans," she said.
Congressmen Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla., and Robert Wexler, D-Fla., also
are
co-sponsors of lifting the gay ban.
"If you're in the military, the only concern should be if you shoot
straight -- not if you are straight," Hastings said.
The bill -- which has no companion legislation in the Senate -- has a
long
way to go before becoming law. First, it needs to get out of committee.
"The odds are very small, unless the top military brass would embrace
it,"
Wexler said. "When was the last time it snowed in South Florida?"
U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., who chairs the House Armed Services
Committee, has consistently voted against gay-rights issues, according
to
Human Rights Campaign, a pro-gay Washington group that ranks lawmakers
on
a scale of 0 to 100, 100 being the highest level of support.
Hunter ranks 0; Ros-Lehtinen ranks 86, according to HRC's 2004 report.
Two years ago, HRC sent Ros-Lehtinen a thank-you note for "the totality
of
her record, not just one vote."
Ros-Lehtinen "has really taken a leadership issue on repealing the
military's gay ban among Republicans," said Steve Ralls, communications
director for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network.
"Her endorsement, her sponsorship of the bill, is going to lead a lot of
other moderate Republicans in the House to come on board," he said.
Perhaps, but it's unlikely Ros-Lehtinen will sway conservative GOP
leaders
including House Speaker Tom DeLay.
"The other side has been systematically, over time, desensitizing the
American people into thinking that this is an acceptable lifestyle. It
is
not acceptable," DeLay told The Miami Herald in a 1998 discussion about
gay rights. "It is wrong. It is dangerous. It destroys families. It
destroys people."
Ros-Lehtinen says she will staunchly support the repeal until it
happens.
"It's a process -- a learning process. It takes a long time to get
people
to change their minds. I don't get frustrated. If I did, I wouldn't keep
talking about the Cuban embargo every day."
--
Randomly generated signature --
Earn cash in your spare time--blackmail your friends.
--
Randomly generated signature --
"I'm the crazy one who thinks that words reach people." - Anne Sexton
--
Randomly generated signature --
Loyalty to a petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul. [Mark Twain]
.
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| User: "Sho Nuff" |
|
| Title: Re: In fairness to the right... |
14 Apr 2005 04:30:30 PM |
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Regarding that case, how did the police know what they were doing in the
bedroom?
THAT is the point! Keep queer sex, actually keep ALL sex out of sight of
the general public.
The police have never had the right to kick in a door to see if someone was
having their butt banged, but they have ALWAYS had the right to stop the act
from happening in public.
So, I celebrate ANY sex act that the police bust because it is going on in
the wrong place! Doesn't matter if it is 2 guys, 2 girls, one of each, or a
group...it must be kept PRIVATE!
"eldorado" <eldorado@io.com> wrote in message
news:20050414070656.A47428@eris.io.com...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Sho Nuff wrote:
The SPIRIT of the laws are to maintain your privacy, and mine. In your
bedroom is YOUR business. When you try to make others ACCEPT it as good
and
normal it is violating the privacy of those others.
Funny how times have changed, 10 years ago (give or take) the right wing
was celebrating Bowers V Hardwick. In which it was ok for police to
arrest two gay men in the privacy of their bedroom. Progress may be slow
in coming for the Republican party, but times they are a-changin'. In
addition to the article I posted below, Republican Gov. M. Jodi Rell of
Connecticut has stated she would sign the Civil Union bill that was voted
on in the state Senate.
"eldorado" <eldorado@io.com> wrote in message
news:20050413062149.L23428@eris.io.com...
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Sho Nuff wrote:
Why be fair to the right now? Must be some further perversion of the
real
truth you are about to spew...
Why do you get so upset when I try to point out that not all
republicans
want to legislate the bedroom? Unless, of course, you like prying into
other peoples bedrooms.
"eldorado" <eldorado@io.com> wrote in message
news:20050412071451.D70842@eris.io.com...
Not all members of the right wing want to legislate the bedroom.
http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2005/04/10/news/breaking_news/doc425905e5231ec347011137.txt
Republican lawmaker urging end to `don't ask, don't tell' policy
By Steve Rothaus, Knight Ridder Newspapers (KRT)
MIAMI -- At odds with her party's leadership, Republican Congresswoman
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida is urging the Pentagon to end "don't
ask,
don't tell" and allow gay men and lesbians to join and remain in the
military.
"We've tried the policy. I don't think it works. And we've spent a lot
of
money enforcing it," said Ros-Lehtinen, a member of the Subcommittee
on
National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations, who
became a co-sponsor of the bill on Tuesday.
"We investigate people. Bring them up on charges. Basically wreck
their
lives. ... People who've signed up to serve our country. We should be
thanking them," she said.
Although her support won't change the law overnight, it represents a
dramatic break with GOP leadership over a hot-button issue that has
split
the party and the nation.
Ros-Lehtinen, along with House Republicans Christopher Shays of
Connecticut and Jim Kolbe of Arizona, joins 70 Democrats in support of
the
Military Readiness Enhancement Act, introduced by Rep. Marty Meehan,
D-Mass., last month to repeal the longtime gay ban.
"Don't ask, don't tell" became law in 1993, a compromise after
President
Bill Clinton sought to relax military policy and allow gays to serve
openly. The law, which easily passed in both the House and Senate,
prohibits commanders and investigators from prying into a service
member's
sex life, but calls for military discharge if someone in the armed
service
acknowledges he or she is gay.
"It doesn't make any sense," Ros-Lehtinen said of the ban. "There's no
scientific evidence that sexual orientation has an effect on the
ability
to perform as a military officer or a buck private."
For several years, Ros-Lehtinen has taken a leadership role in backing
pro-gay legislation. She has co-sponsored or supported:
--A federal hate-crimes act.
--A bill that protects gays from federal employment discrimination.
--Laws that increased funding for HIV/AIDS prevention.
Nearly 10,000 men and women have been discharged under "don't ask,
don't
tell," which has cost the U.S. government more than $200 million to
enforce since passage in 1993, according to the Servicemembers Legal
Defense Network , a Washington gay-rights group.
Last week, an Army sergeant who was awarded a Purple Heart after being
wounded in Iraq publicly disclosed his homosexuality. He risks going
to
jail and an early discharge from the service.
"I know a ton of gay men that would be more than willing to stay in
the
Army if they could just be open," Sgt. Robert Stout, 23, told The
Associated Press. "But if we have to stay here and hide our lives all
the
time, it's just not worth it."
Ros-Lehtinen, 52, said the military "should get the best men and women
regardless of their sexual orientation."
"It doesn't seem the best military tradition to exclude people because
of
their sexual orientation," she said. "They can serve with as much
distinction as anyone else."
Ros-Lehtinen's husband, former acting U.S. Attorney Dexter Lehtinen,
59,
was awarded a Purple Heart for severe facial injuries he received
during
Army combat in Vietnam. And her stepson, Douglas Lehtinen, 28, is a
Marine
officer scheduled to be deployed this summer to Iraq.
"We've had these discussions in our family," Ros-Lehtinen said.
"Douglas
would have no problem serving alongside anyone who's capable."
"In Iraq and Afghanistan we are fighting alongside coalition forces
that
have in them gay men and women," Ros-Lehtinen said. "England is
actively
recruiting gay men and women to join their armed forces."
Ros-Lehtinen said she has heard the arguments against allowing them to
serve (straight men not wanting to shower with gay men, etc.) and that
they're "ludicrous."
"It's the same kind of talk we heard about women serving in the
military
and African Americans," she said.
Congressmen Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla., and Robert Wexler, D-Fla., also
are
co-sponsors of lifting the gay ban.
"If you're in the military, the only concern should be if you shoot
straight -- not if you are straight," Hastings said.
The bill -- which has no companion legislation in the Senate -- has a
long
way to go before becoming law. First, it needs to get out of
committee.
"The odds are very small, unless the top military brass would embrace
it,"
Wexler said. "When was the last time it snowed in South Florida?"
U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., who chairs the House Armed Services
Committee, has consistently voted against gay-rights issues, according
to
Human Rights Campaign, a pro-gay Washington group that ranks lawmakers
on
a scale of 0 to 100, 100 being the highest level of support.
Hunter ranks 0; Ros-Lehtinen ranks 86, according to HRC's 2004 report.
Two years ago, HRC sent Ros-Lehtinen a thank-you note for "the
totality
of
her record, not just one vote."
Ros-Lehtinen "has really taken a leadership issue on repealing the
military's gay ban among Republicans," said Steve Ralls,
communications
director for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network.
"Her endorsement, her sponsorship of the bill, is going to lead a lot
of
other moderate Republicans in the House to come on board," he said.
Perhaps, but it's unlikely Ros-Lehtinen will sway conservative GOP
leaders
including House Speaker Tom DeLay.
"The other side has been systematically, over time, desensitizing the
American people into thinking that this is an acceptable lifestyle. It
is
not acceptable," DeLay told The Miami Herald in a 1998 discussion
about
gay rights. "It is wrong. It is dangerous. It destroys families. It
destroys people."
Ros-Lehtinen says she will staunchly support the repeal until it
happens.
"It's a process -- a learning process. It takes a long time to get
people
to change their minds. I don't get frustrated. If I did, I wouldn't
keep
talking about the Cuban embargo every day."
--
Randomly generated signature --
Earn cash in your spare time--blackmail your friends.
--
Randomly generated signature --
"I'm the crazy one who thinks that words reach people." - Anne Sexton
--
Randomly generated signature --
Loyalty to a petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human
soul. [Mark Twain]
.
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| User: "Brian Henderson" |
|
| Title: Re: In fairness to the right... |
15 Apr 2005 06:22:13 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:30:30 -0400, "Sho Nuff"
<shonuff@papernapkin.net> wrote:
So, I celebrate ANY sex act that the police bust because it is going on in
the wrong place! Doesn't matter if it is 2 guys, 2 girls, one of each, or a
group...it must be kept PRIVATE!
In general, I agree with you, but let's be honest, there are a lot of
things that go on between heterosexual couples in public that people
would have a fit about if it was a gay couple. Tact and self-control
seem to have gone the way of the dodo in the last couple years and
it's not considered too extreme to have two people dry humping in the
local mall with their tongues down each other's throats.
As far as I'm concerned, I want equality for everyone, gay or
straight, black or white, but some of this overly-permissive nonsense
has got to go.
.
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| User: "Sho Nuff" |
|
| Title: Re: In fairness to the right... |
15 Apr 2005 07:28:59 PM |
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Well, sadly, here in the Metro DC area, you can go into most any place, and
see same sex couples in lip locks just as you describe.
Just yesterday at lunchtime in a local restaurant I saw two women in heat
doing some serious necking in a booth.
It is everywhere now and should be squashed.
"Brian Henderson" <BrianL.Henderson@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:csi0615m9i8jjslmpsieqeiied10v18o9e@4ax.com...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:30:30 -0400, "Sho Nuff"
<shonuff@papernapkin.net> wrote:
So, I celebrate ANY sex act that the police bust because it is going on in
the wrong place! Doesn't matter if it is 2 guys, 2 girls, one of each, or
a
group...it must be kept PRIVATE!
In general, I agree with you, but let's be honest, there are a lot of
things that go on between heterosexual couples in public that people
would have a fit about if it was a gay couple. Tact and self-control
seem to have gone the way of the dodo in the last couple years and
it's not considered too extreme to have two people dry humping in the
local mall with their tongues down each other's throats.
As far as I'm concerned, I want equality for everyone, gay or
straight, black or white, but some of this overly-permissive nonsense
has got to go.
.
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| User: "Brian Henderson" |
|
| Title: Re: In fairness to the right... |
16 Apr 2005 11:27:44 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:28:59 -0400, "Sho Nuff"
<shonuff@papernapkin.net> wrote:
Well, sadly, here in the Metro DC area, you can go into most any place, and
see same sex couples in lip locks just as you describe.
Just yesterday at lunchtime in a local restaurant I saw two women in heat
doing some serious necking in a booth.
It is everywhere now and should be squashed.
Yes, but only if it's done fairly. While I do disagree with a lot of
things hard-core homosexual activists claim and want, I think they're
dead on here. You can hardly demand that they not be able to do
things that everyone else is openly doing, it's unfair and unjust. Of
course, that doesn't mean that just because it's being done openly by
heterosexuals, it should be allowed, or if it is allowed, that anyone
should not be allowed to do the same thing.
Just more evidence that society is falling apart.
.
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|
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| User: "Sho Nuff" |
|
| Title: Re: In fairness to the right... |
17 Apr 2005 10:08:45 AM |
|
|
The whole gay right garbage is a sign of a failing society.
"Brian Henderson" <BrianL.Henderson@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:v6p36198rs28831cotsugmgcpqbils8bi4@4ax.com...
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:28:59 -0400, "Sho Nuff"
<shonuff@papernapkin.net> wrote:
Well, sadly, here in the Metro DC area, you can go into most any place,
and
see same sex couples in lip locks just as you describe.
Just yesterday at lunchtime in a local restaurant I saw two women in heat
doing some serious necking in a booth.
It is everywhere now and should be squashed.
Yes, but only if it's done fairly. While I do disagree with a lot of
things hard-core homosexual activists claim and want, I think they're
dead on here. You can hardly demand that they not be able to do
things that everyone else is openly doing, it's unfair and unjust. Of
course, that doesn't mean that just because it's being done openly by
heterosexuals, it should be allowed, or if it is allowed, that anyone
should not be allowed to do the same thing.
Just more evidence that society is falling apart.
.
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| User: "eldorado" |
|
| Title: Re: In fairness to the right... |
17 Apr 2005 06:32:30 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005, Sho Nuff wrote:
The whole gay right garbage is a sign of a failing society.
Would you explain why you feel this way? I would think that a society in
which a minority member feels they need to beg for equal rights is a sign
of a failing society
"Brian Henderson" <BrianL.Henderson@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:v6p36198rs28831cotsugmgcpqbils8bi4@4ax.com...
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:28:59 -0400, "Sho Nuff"
<shonuff@papernapkin.net> wrote:
Well, sadly, here in the Metro DC area, you can go into most any place,
and
see same sex couples in lip locks just as you describe.
Just yesterday at lunchtime in a local restaurant I saw two women in heat
doing some serious necking in a booth.
It is everywhere now and should be squashed.
Yes, but only if it's done fairly. While I do disagree with a lot of
things hard-core homosexual activists claim and want, I think they're
dead on here. You can hardly demand that they not be able to do
things that everyone else is openly doing, it's unfair and unjust. Of
course, that doesn't mean that just because it's being done openly by
heterosexuals, it should be allowed, or if it is allowed, that anyone
should not be allowed to do the same thing.
Just more evidence that society is falling apart.
--
Randomly generated signature --
"My one regret in life is that I am not someone else." -- Woody Allen
.
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| User: "Sho Nuff" |
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| Title: Re: In fairness to the right... |
18 Apr 2005 06:45:21 PM |
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Check out the history of the fall of all the previous empires, Persia,
Alexander the Great, the Romans...homosexuality was instrumental in the
breakdown of each. Simply look at history the way it really is and not the
way the Looney Left has re-written it.
"eldorado" <eldorado@io.com> wrote in message
news:20050417183108.H22800@eris.io.com...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005, Sho Nuff wrote:
The whole gay right garbage is a sign of a failing society.
Would you explain why you feel this way? I would think that a society in
which a minority member feels they need to beg for equal rights is a sign
of a failing society
"Brian Henderson" <BrianL.Henderson@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:v6p36198rs28831cotsugmgcpqbils8bi4@4ax.com...
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:28:59 -0400, "Sho Nuff"
<shonuff@papernapkin.net> wrote:
Well, sadly, here in the Metro DC area, you can go into most any place,
and
see same sex couples in lip locks just as you describe.
Just yesterday at lunchtime in a local restaurant I saw two women in
heat
doing some serious necking in a booth.
It is everywhere now and should be squashed.
Yes, but only if it's done fairly. While I do disagree wit | | | | | | | | | | | | | |