| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Gallows" |
| Date: |
22 Oct 2004 12:43:48 PM |
| Object: |
What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
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| User: "qwerty" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
22 Oct 2004 01:31:15 PM |
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"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
"Uncivil War"
"Stolen Honor rewrites the history of the Vietnam War."
http://www.slate.com/id/2108458/
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| User: "Kel" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
23 Oct 2004 08:40:42 AM |
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"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a good cause?
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| User: "Dean" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
23 Oct 2004 10:00:49 AM |
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"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ubted.143715$BI5.117003@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a good
cause?
No I believe the cause was good. The way we fought it was wrong.
Dean
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| User: "Kel" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
23 Oct 2004 04:00:47 PM |
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"Dean" <deankelly@usadatanet.com> wrote in message
news:XqydnWrOXNG-7-fcRVn-3Q@usadatanet.net...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ubted.143715$BI5.117003@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a good
cause?
No I believe the cause was good. The way we fought it was wrong.
There really wasn't any cause because it was fought, we were told, to
prevent the domino effect. What happened? South Vietnam fell and no domino
effect took place. A needless waste of hundreds of thousands of lives. Kerry
called it right. People like him helped stop a war without a cause that
could have gone on another five years and killed God knows how many more.
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| User: "Sinclair Grewpe" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
23 Oct 2004 04:06:14 PM |
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"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3Ezed.145330$BI5.111295@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Dean" <deankelly@usadatanet.com> wrote in message
news:XqydnWrOXNG-7-fcRVn-3Q@usadatanet.net...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ubted.143715$BI5.117003@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a good
cause?
No I believe the cause was good. The way we fought it was wrong.
There really wasn't any cause because it was fought, we were told, to
prevent the domino effect. What happened? South Vietnam fell and no domino
effect took place. A needless waste of hundreds of thousands of lives.
Kerry called it right.
No he didn't. Kerry LIED, and worse yet, he stabbed our POWs in the back!
That guy is a piece of *****, pal.
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| User: "Kel" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
24 Oct 2004 07:33:05 AM |
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"Sinclair Grewpe" <FaithHealerKerry@DNCsucks.com> wrote in message
news:aJzed.5451$%h1.4117@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3Ezed.145330$BI5.111295@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Dean" <deankelly@usadatanet.com> wrote in message
news:XqydnWrOXNG-7-fcRVn-3Q@usadatanet.net...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ubted.143715$BI5.117003@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a good
cause?
No I believe the cause was good. The way we fought it was wrong.
There really wasn't any cause because it was fought, we were told, to
prevent the domino effect. What happened? South Vietnam fell and no
domino effect took place. A needless waste of hundreds of thousands of
lives. Kerry called it right.
No he didn't. Kerry LIED, and worse yet, he stabbed our POWs in the back!
That guy is a piece of *****, pal.
He said a wrong war was wrong. Good for him.
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| User: "InsuranceBroker" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
24 Oct 2004 08:33:13 AM |
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Subject: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see:
From: "Kel"
Date: 10/24/2004 8:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <5iNed.11883$i02.1544@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
"Sinclair Grewpe" <FaithHealerKerry@DNCsucks.com> wrote in message
news:aJzed.5451$%h1.4117@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Kel" < > wrote in message
news:3Ezed.145330$BI5.111295@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Dean" <deankelly@usadatanet.com> wrote in message
news:XqydnWrOXNG-7-fcRVn-3Q@usadatanet.net...
"Kel" < > wrote in message
news:ubted.143715$BI5.117003@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a good
cause?
No I believe the cause was good. The way we fought it was wrong.
There really wasn't any cause because it was fought, we were told, to
prevent the domino effect. What happened? South Vietnam fell and no
domino effect took place. A needless waste of hundreds of thousands of
lives. Kerry called it right.
No he didn't. Kerry LIED, and worse yet, he stabbed our POWs in the back!
That guy is a piece of *****, pal.
He said a wrong war was wrong. Good for him.
I will always vote for the guy who believes that a war is wrong. I will always
wonder about people like bush and cheney who refused to serve then talk about
being great leaders. Iraq was the wrong war at the wrong time. The
republicans sound like like the republicans of the early 60's with the stop
them in vietnam or they will be attacking you in your home. Scare game is the
only game republicans know.
Doing Insurance business in the Garden State
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| User: "Sir Cumference" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
24 Oct 2004 03:29:43 PM |
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InsuranceBubbaGump wrote:
I will always vote for the guy who believes that a war is wrong.
Then you will love Kerry, and when the next terrorist attack on US
citizens happen you and Kerry can sit and do nothing because you both
believe war is wrong. There are times when war is right because there is
no other option. Yet after we went to war and took out Saddam, Kerry
said it was the right thing to do, he supported the president. Why did
he say that then? Because it fit in with his personal political agenda
to say it was the right thing to do, but now that is can serve his
political agenda to flip-flop on the issue he says it was the wrong
thing to do. He goes which ever the favorable political wind blows, he
will flip on any issue to serve himself. He will not stand up to
difficult unpopular decisions for the good of this country. He will
cowtow to whomever in order to be popular.
I will always
wonder about people like bush and cheney who refused to serve then talk about
being great leaders. Iraq was the wrong war at the wrong time.
You are really good at parroting your buddy Hanoi Kerry, yet when it
suited his political interest Kerry said it was the right thing to do.
Now that he thinks it suits his political interest, he say it was the
wrong war. He is totally self serving and will not do what is best for
this country, only what is best for him. He will not make tough
decisions if he thinks it might make him unpopular with Americans or the
rest of the world. He is weak, not fit to hold the highest office in the
land.
The
republicans sound like like the republicans of the early 60's with the stop
them in vietnam or they will be attacking you in your home. Scare game is the
only game republicans know.
Don't look now, but they have already attacked, right in your own back
yard or have you had your head in the sand so long you have become
totally blind. Remember 9/11 and the World Trade Towers?
Here is the blinding speed with which you boy Kerry will respond to such
an attack.
Here's what the Massachusetts Democrat said July 8 when Larry King asked
where he was on 9/11, according to CNN's own transcript:
'Nobody Could Think'
"I was in the Capitol. We'd just had a meeting - we'd just come into a
leadership meeting in Tom Daschle's office, looking out at the Capitol.
And as I came in, Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid were standing there, and
we watched the second plane come in to the building. And we shortly
thereafter sat down at the table and then we just realized nobody could
think, and then boom, right behind us, we saw the cloud of explosion at
the Pentagon. And then word came from the White House, they were
evacuating, and we were to evacuate, and so we immediately began the
evacuation."
It was forty minutes from the time the second plane hit the WTC and the
third plane hit the Pentagon. So for forty minutes when it appeared that
the country was under attack, Kerry couldn't think. And yet you simple
minded dummycrat liberals slam Bush for his seven minutes, which during
that time he was waiting for the Secret Service to gather specific
details so they could make a decision where the President should go.
I can see why you will vote for Kerry, most stupid people do.
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| User: "johann von Tebbes" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
24 Oct 2004 09:09:48 AM |
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How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy
George Will (archive)
October 24, 2004 | Print | Send
WASHINGTON -- Not since the election of 1800, the first in which one
party displaced another from the presidency, has there been such anxiety
about voting. In 1800 there were fears that the losing side would resort to
arms. Today's worry concerns a cloud of locust-like lawyers asserting novel
theories that purport to demonstrate that sensible rules, such as requiring
voters to have identification, are illegal, even unconstitutional.
This locust litigation will erupt around any close election -- any not
won beyond ``the margin of litigation.'' The lawyering, which has already
begun, will attack rules designed to defeat a banal and familiar
phenomenon -- old-fashioned fraud. Concerning which, there is a timely and
disturbing new book, ``Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our
Democracy'' by John Fund of The Wall Street Journal.
Even though the 1992 election saw the largest percentage increase in
voter turnout since 1952, Bill Clinton quickly sought to address the
supposed ``crisis'' of nonparticipation with the National Voter Registration
Act -- aka ``Motor Voter.'' It, Fund says, imposed ``fraud-friendly'' rules
on the states, requiring them, for example, to register to vote anyone
receiving a driver's license, and to offer mail-in registration with no
identification required.
Given such measures, perhaps we should not be surprised that, as Fund
reports, since 1995, Philadelphia's population has declined 13 percent but
registered voters have increased 24 percent. Are we sure we should we be
pleased?
The unexamined belief that an ever-higher rate of voter registration is
a Good Thing has met its limit in the center of the state that this year is
the center of the political universe -- Ohio. The U.S. Census Bureau's 2003
estimate is that in Franklin County -- Columbus -- there are approximately
815,000 people 18 or over. But 845,720 are now registered.
One reason for such unacceptable numbers in various jurisdictions
across the nation is that voter rolls are not frequently enough purged of
voters whose status has changed. For example, in 2000 The Indianapolis
Star's Bill Theobald reported that ``hundreds of thousands of names, as many
as one in five statewide'' were improperly on Indiana registration rolls
``because the people behind those names have moved, died or gone to
prison.'' Unfortunately, there is reluctance, especially among Republicans,
to support measures that might appear to have a ``disparate impact'' on
minorities and therefore be denounced as racist.
Today Americans demand, as a California voting official says, the kind
of convenience in voting they enjoy in buying airline tickets. So election
``day'' can be three months long (in Maine). Absentee voting has come to be
considered a right -- yet another one -- of convenience rather than a
limited privilege understood as a concession to necessity. Soon, voting by
mail (Oregonians all vote this way) and even online will be regarded as
rights.
These measures are supposed to increase turnout. However, according to
Curtis Gans of the Committee for the Study of the American Electorate, all
research is ``unequivocal in showing that easy absentee voting decreases
voter turnout'' because ``you are diffusing the mobilizing focus away from a
single day.''
What liberalized registration and voting procedures do increase are
opportunities for fraud, including the sort that Milwaukee television
station WTMJ found in 2002. Fund says it ``filmed Democratic campaign
workers handing out food and small sums of money to residents of a home for
the mentally ill in Kenosha, after which the patients were shepherded into a
separate room and given absentee ballots.''
In 2000, in heavily Democratic St. Louis, at 6:30 p.m., a judge,
responding to a Democratic complaint filed in the name of a man the judge
did not actually hear from (the man was dead), ordered polls to remain open
until 10 p.m., three hours longer than the law allows, and ordered one
voting place downtown to be open until midnight.
Before 7 p.m., all over the city, persons were receiving automated,
prerecorded phone messages from Jesse Jackson saying, ``Tonight the polls in
St. Louis are staying open late until 10 p.m. in your neighborhood and until
midnight downtown.'' Between 7 and 7:30 p.m., Al Gore was calling radio
stations to announce the later voting hours. Apparently the entire episode
was orchestrated by the Democrats well in advance.
Fund's book is replete with stories enraging about the past and ominous
about the integrity of American democracy for the foreseeable future, which
arrives in less than two weeks.
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| User: "Gallows" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
23 Oct 2004 09:22:04 AM |
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"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ubted.143715$BI5.117003@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a good
cause?
This is not a question of whether the Vietnam War was a good idea or not, it
is a question of the character of John Kerry. He is responsible for he
"Rambo" scenario. Even Jane Fonda apologized for her actions . . . Kerry
won't at least release his records.
Gallows.
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| User: "Kel" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
23 Oct 2004 03:50:49 PM |
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"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:9Oted.80574$tU4.12073@okepread06...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ubted.143715$BI5.117003@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a good
cause?
This is not a question of whether the Vietnam War was a good idea or not,
it is a question of the character of John Kerry.
He showed great character by standing up publicly and stating that a wrong
was a wrong. That takes real courage. Especially given the mood in America
at the time. I doubt you've ever shown moral courage of that magnitude.
.
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| User: "Gallows" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
25 Oct 2004 06:08:42 PM |
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"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Juzed.145253$BI5.88236@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:9Oted.80574$tU4.12073@okepread06...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ubted.143715$BI5.117003@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a good
cause?
This is not a question of whether the Vietnam War was a good idea or not,
it is a question of the character of John Kerry.
He showed great character by standing up publicly and stating that a wrong
was a wrong. That takes real courage. Especially given the mood in America
at the time. I doubt you've ever shown moral courage of that magnitude.
Kerry is a self serving piece of trash and has no principles. The evidence
is not only exhibited in his campaign today, but also the things he said
when he returned from the war. Specifically, the ones he admitted where
exaggerations. The guy makes me sick.
Gallows.
.
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| User: "Kel" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
26 Oct 2004 05:42:30 AM |
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"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:NHffd.87121$tU4.30508@okepread06...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Juzed.145253$BI5.88236@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:9Oted.80574$tU4.12073@okepread06...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ubted.143715$BI5.117003@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a good
cause?
This is not a question of whether the Vietnam War was a good idea or
not, it is a question of the character of John Kerry.
He showed great character by standing up publicly and stating that a
wrong was a wrong. That takes real courage. Especially given the mood in
America at the time. I doubt you've ever shown moral courage of that
magnitude.
Kerry is a self serving piece of trash and has no principles.
He had the principle to stand up and say a wrong war was a wrong war. Bush
on the other hand agreed with a war that was wrong and then chose not to
fight in it.
.
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| User: "Gallows" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
26 Oct 2004 06:21:11 PM |
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"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qSpfd.47191$i02.5169@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:NHffd.87121$tU4.30508@okepread06...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Juzed.145253$BI5.88236@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:9Oted.80574$tU4.12073@okepread06...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ubted.143715$BI5.117003@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a good
cause?
This is not a question of whether the Vietnam War was a good idea or
not, it is a question of the character of John Kerry.
He showed great character by standing up publicly and stating that a
wrong was a wrong. That takes real courage. Especially given the mood in
America at the time. I doubt you've ever shown moral courage of that
magnitude.
Kerry is a self serving piece of trash and has no principles.
He had the principle to stand up and say a wrong war was a wrong war. Bush
on the other hand agreed with a war that was wrong and then chose not to
fight in it.
So fighting in a war despite the fact that you think it is a the wrong war
is a principle? Maybe yours, not mine.
Gallows.
.
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| User: "Kel" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
27 Oct 2004 08:14:04 AM |
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"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:yZAfd.78339$hj.43375@fed1read07...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qSpfd.47191$i02.5169@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:NHffd.87121$tU4.30508@okepread06...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Juzed.145253$BI5.88236@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:9Oted.80574$tU4.12073@okepread06...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ubted.143715$BI5.117003@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a good
cause?
This is not a question of whether the Vietnam War was a good idea or
not, it is a question of the character of John Kerry.
He showed great character by standing up publicly and stating that a
wrong was a wrong. That takes real courage. Especially given the mood
in America at the time. I doubt you've ever shown moral courage of that
magnitude.
Kerry is a self serving piece of trash and has no principles.
He had the principle to stand up and say a wrong war was a wrong war.
Bush on the other hand agreed with a war that was wrong and then chose
not to fight in it.
So fighting in a war despite the fact that you think it is a the wrong war
is a principle? Maybe yours, not mine.
No. Like many young Americans he went there believing the lies that he had
been told. When he got there, he realised (like thousands of others) that
this was not the war being sold back home. So, when he returned home he
spoke out loudly and bravely. Principle. It's the difference between him and
Bush. Bush has none.
.
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| User: "Gallows" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
28 Oct 2004 07:09:14 PM |
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"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:waNfd.55366$i02.23097@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:yZAfd.78339$hj.43375@fed1read07...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qSpfd.47191$i02.5169@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:NHffd.87121$tU4.30508@okepread06...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Juzed.145253$BI5.88236@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:9Oted.80574$tU4.12073@okepread06...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ubted.143715$BI5.117003@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a good
cause?
This is not a question of whether the Vietnam War was a good idea or
not, it is a question of the character of John Kerry.
He showed great character by standing up publicly and stating that a
wrong was a wrong. That takes real courage. Especially given the mood
in America at the time. I doubt you've ever shown moral courage of
that magnitude.
Kerry is a self serving piece of trash and has no principles.
He had the principle to stand up and say a wrong war was a wrong war.
Bush on the other hand agreed with a war that was wrong and then chose
not to fight in it.
So fighting in a war despite the fact that you think it is a the wrong
war is a principle? Maybe yours, not mine.
No. Like many young Americans he went there believing the lies that he had
been told. When he got there, he realised (like thousands of others) that
this was not the war being sold back home. So, when he returned home he
spoke out loudly and bravely. Principle. It's the difference between him
and Bush. Bush has none.
Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, tell me: what was
wrong with that war?
Gallows.
.
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| User: "Kel" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
29 Oct 2004 03:31:30 AM |
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"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:GSfgd.80752$hj.71118@fed1read07...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:waNfd.55366$i02.23097@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:yZAfd.78339$hj.43375@fed1read07...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qSpfd.47191$i02.5169@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:NHffd.87121$tU4.30508@okepread06...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Juzed.145253$BI5.88236@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:9Oted.80574$tU4.12073@okepread06...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ubted.143715$BI5.117003@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <Fight@TheRevolution.com> wrote in message
news:nFbed.48614$%x.23718@okepread04...
http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/program-excerpts.asp
Are you the only American left who thinks the Vietnam war was a
good cause?
This is not a question of whether the Vietnam War was a good idea or
not, it is a question of the character of John Kerry.
He showed great character by standing up publicly and stating that a
wrong was a wrong. That takes real courage. Especially given the mood
in America at the time. I doubt you've ever shown moral courage of
that magnitude.
Kerry is a self serving piece of trash and has no principles.
He had the principle to stand up and say a wrong war was a wrong war.
Bush on the other hand agreed with a war that was wrong and then chose
not to fight in it.
So fighting in a war despite the fact that you think it is a the wrong
war is a principle? Maybe yours, not mine.
No. Like many young Americans he went there believing the lies that he
had been told. When he got there, he realised (like thousands of others)
that this was not the war being sold back home. So, when he returned home
he spoke out loudly and bravely. Principle. It's the difference between
him and Bush. Bush has none.
Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, tell me: what was
wrong with that war?
It had no point. The arguments made to justify it at the time were that a
Communist domino effect would ripple across South East Asia in the event of
a US defeat. When the defeat came, after the death of 58,000 US soldiers,
the domino effect did not. They had died for nothing.
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| User: "Cleopatra" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
26 Oct 2004 01:15:37 PM |
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"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<qSpfd.47191$i02.5169@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:NHffd.87121$tU4.30508@okepread06...
(snip)
Kerry is a self serving piece of trash and has no principles.
He had the principle to stand up and say a wrong war was a wrong war. Bush
on the other hand agreed with a war that was wrong and then chose not to
fight in it.
The problem with your *analysis* here is it has as its assumption that
there are some wars you liberals would favor. We know better, and if
your gang were around in 1941 you'd be telling the rest of us Japan's
attack on Pearl Harbor was maybe OK since Roosevelt likely knew it was
coming. A Michael Moore back then would have you all convinced
Roosevelt was the devil incarnate.
Cleopatra
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| User: "Kel" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
26 Oct 2004 04:12:50 PM |
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"Cleopatra" <Botox_Billionaire@linkedto.themailcrypt.com> wrote in message
news:a10554a0.0410261015.1db881df@posting.google.com...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<qSpfd.47191$i02.5169@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:NHffd.87121$tU4.30508@okepread06...
(snip)
Kerry is a self serving piece of trash and has no principles.
He had the principle to stand up and say a wrong war was a wrong war.
Bush
on the other hand agreed with a war that was wrong and then chose not to
fight in it.
The problem with your *analysis* here is it has as its assumption that
there are some wars you liberals would favor.
Actually, over here in Blighty we were enduring the Blitz whilst you lot sat
it out. It took Pearl Harbour for you to realise that there was a problem
going on.
We know better, and if
your gang were around in 1941 you'd be telling the rest of us Japan's
attack on Pearl Harbor was maybe OK since Roosevelt likely knew it was
coming. A Michael Moore back then would have you all convinced
Roosevelt was the devil incarnate.
No, we'd been asking Roosevelt to join for quite some time actually. Back in
your box, Fascist.
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| User: "Gallows" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
26 Oct 2004 06:37:24 PM |
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"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:m5zfd.160178$BI5.145389@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Cleopatra" <Botox_Billionaire@linkedto.themailcrypt.com> wrote in message
news:a10554a0.0410261015.1db881df@posting.google.com...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<qSpfd.47191$i02.5169@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:NHffd.87121$tU4.30508@okepread06...
(snip)
Kerry is a self serving piece of trash and has no principles.
He had the principle to stand up and say a wrong war was a wrong war.
Bush
on the other hand agreed with a war that was wrong and then chose not to
fight in it.
The problem with your *analysis* here is it has as its assumption that
there are some wars you liberals would favor.
Actually, over here in Blighty we were enduring the Blitz whilst you lot
sat it out. It took Pearl Harbour for you to realise that there was a
problem going on.
We saved your ***** you ungreatful pig.
We know better, and if
your gang were around in 1941 you'd be telling the rest of us Japan's
attack on Pearl Harbor was maybe OK since Roosevelt likely knew it was
coming. A Michael Moore back then would have you all convinced
Roosevelt was the devil incarnate.
No, we'd been asking Roosevelt to join for quite some time actually. Back
in your box, Fascist.
Fascist fascist! OOOOOOOO . . . We are free and you are a talking head for
the state news and radio. Get your head out of your *****, Kel.
Gallows.
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| User: "Kel" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
27 Oct 2004 08:10:04 AM |
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"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:McBfd.78344$hj.11307@fed1read07...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:m5zfd.160178$BI5.145389@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Cleopatra" <Botox_Billionaire@linkedto.themailcrypt.com> wrote in
message news:a10554a0.0410261015.1db881df@posting.google.com...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<qSpfd.47191$i02.5169@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:NHffd.87121$tU4.30508@okepread06...
(snip)
Kerry is a self serving piece of trash and has no principles.
He had the principle to stand up and say a wrong war was a wrong war.
Bush
on the other hand agreed with a war that was wrong and then chose not
to
fight in it.
The problem with your *analysis* here is it has as its assumption that
there are some wars you liberals would favor.
Actually, over here in Blighty we were enduring the Blitz whilst you lot
sat it out. It took Pearl Harbour for you to realise that there was a
problem going on.
We saved your ***** you ungreatful pig.
We are actually not in the least bit ungrateful. We are enormously grateful.
However, the rather insane argument put forward by Cleopatra was simply
factually incorrect.
We know better, and if
your gang were around in 1941 you'd be telling the rest of us Japan's
attack on Pearl Harbor was maybe OK since Roosevelt likely knew it was
coming. A Michael Moore back then would have you all convinced
Roosevelt was the devil incarnate.
No, we'd been asking Roosevelt to join for quite some time actually. Back
in your box, Fascist.
Fascist fascist! OOOOOOOO . . . We are free and you are a talking head
for the state news and radio. Get your head out of your *****, Kel.
Gallows.
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| User: "Steveo" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
26 Oct 2004 03:40:29 PM |
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Kel wrote:
"Cleopatra" <Botox_Billionaire@linkedto.themailcrypt.com> wrote in message
news:a10554a0.0410261015.1db881df@posting.google.com...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<qSpfd.47191$i02.5169@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:NHffd.87121$tU4.30508@okepread06...
(snip)
Kerry is a self serving piece of trash and has no principles.
He had the principle to stand up and say a wrong war was a wrong war.
Bush
on the other hand agreed with a war that was wrong and then chose not to
fight in it.
The problem with your *analysis* here is it has as its assumption that
there are some wars you liberals would favor.
Actually, over here in Blighty we were enduring the Blitz whilst you lot sat
it out. It took Pearl Harbour for you to realise that there was a problem
going on.
We know better, and if
your gang were around in 1941 you'd be telling the rest of us Japan's
attack on Pearl Harbor was maybe OK since Roosevelt likely knew it was
coming. A Michael Moore back then would have you all convinced
Roosevelt was the devil incarnate.
No, we'd been asking Roosevelt to join for quite some time actually. Back in
your box, Fascist.
It's too much to expect that these rightards would actually know history.
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| User: "Gallows" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
26 Oct 2004 06:38:29 PM |
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"Steveo" <steveo@endwar.com> wrote in message
news:wgAfd.44212$bk1.40298@fed1read05...
Kel wrote:
"Cleopatra" <Botox_Billionaire@linkedto.themailcrypt.com> wrote in
message news:a10554a0.0410261015.1db881df@posting.google.com...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<qSpfd.47191$i02.5169@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:NHffd.87121$tU4.30508@okepread06...
(snip)
Kerry is a self serving piece of trash and has no principles.
He had the principle to stand up and say a wrong war was a wrong war.
Bush
on the other hand agreed with a war that was wrong and then chose not to
fight in it.
The problem with your *analysis* here is it has as its assumption that
there are some wars you liberals would favor.
Actually, over here in Blighty we were enduring the Blitz whilst you lot
sat it out. It took Pearl Harbour for you to realise that there was a
problem going on.
We know better, and if
your gang were around in 1941 you'd be telling the rest of us Japan's
attack on Pearl Harbor was maybe OK since Roosevelt likely knew it was
coming. A Michael Moore back then would have you all convinced
Roosevelt was the devil incarnate.
No, we'd been asking Roosevelt to join for quite some time actually. Back
in your box, Fascist.
It's too much to expect that these rightards would actually know history.
Right, and you hold fighting for something you don't believe in as a
principle. Learn to think, Steveo.
Gallows.
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| User: "SteveL" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
26 Oct 2004 07:24:00 PM |
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On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:38:29 -0400, "Gallows"
<NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote:
No, we'd been asking Roosevelt to join for quite some time actually. Back
in your box, Fascist.
It's too much to expect that these rightards would actually know history.
Right, and you hold fighting for something you don't believe in as a
principle. Learn to think, Steveo.
Kel made a point about protesting a wrong war on principle, you
twisted that into Kerry fighting for something he didn't believe in,
then extrapolated approval for your distortion onto Kel, and now to
steveo - who'd said nothing about any of this!!
*You* learn to think.
And learn some history while you're at it. The American Right was
overwhelmingly isolationist before Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt ( on the
left of American Politics, in case you didn't know) was trying to help
the Brits as best he could and was consistently dismissed as a
warmonger by the Republican Right, who even disapproved of Lend Lease,
and convoy escorts.
Kel is 100% right that the US just sat around and waited to be
attacked - and did so largely at the behest of the Roosevelt-hating
Right.
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| User: "Gallows" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
26 Oct 2004 08:42:23 PM |
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"SteveL" <stevelon@deletethisbitntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:cYidnRQwk7A8d-PcRVnyiQ@giganews.com...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:38:29 -0400, "Gallows"
<NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote:
No, we'd been asking Roosevelt to join for quite some time actually.
Back
in your box, Fascist.
It's too much to expect that these rightards would actually know
history.
Right, and you hold fighting for something you don't believe in as a
principle. Learn to think, Steveo.
Kel made a point about protesting a wrong war on principle, you
twisted that into Kerry fighting for something he didn't believe in,
then extrapolated approval for your distortion onto Kel, and now to
steveo - who'd said nothing about any of this!!
Steve, can you read a thread? Let's review the conversation for our slow
witted friend Steve:
Kel: He admitted that appalling things happen during a war. That's a true
statement. Some of them are war crimes.
Gallows: So, tell me Kel, is it a principle that you hold true the one that
justifies war criminals not being punished for their crimes? Or at least
not have the right to become president?
Kel: It's never going to happen that Americans are made to answer for their
war crimes though, is it?
Gallows: Not by your standard.
Kel: And he was courageous to take the stance he took after that war.
Gallows: No, he did it because he could. Kerry will abuse any power that
is given to him, even if that power is derived from either the evil he has
done or from the nerve to lie about it. Either way, he is an opportunist
with NO PRINCIPLES. He is either a war criminal or a liar, no in between.
Which one do you support?
Steve, do try to keep up.
*You* learn to think.
*You* learn to read.
And learn some history while you're at it. The American Right was
overwhelmingly isolationist before Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt ( on the
left of American Politics, in case you didn't know) was trying to help
the Brits as best he could and was consistently dismissed as a
warmonger by the Republican Right, who even disapproved of Lend Lease,
and convoy escorts.
Kel is 100% right that the US just sat around and waited to be
attacked - and did so largely at the behest of the Roosevelt-hating
Right.
Whatever man, I am not arguing history with you or Kel. I am telling Kel
(and you if you are not an American) that the US saved Europe's ***** many
times, and the fact that we only get spat at by the likes of you and him
make me sick. We should have left you for the Germans and Hitler, you
deserved each other.
Gallows.
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| User: "Gallows" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
28 Oct 2004 07:07:29 PM |
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"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:F4Nfd.55312$i02.16932@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:W1Dfd.78374$hj.12769@fed1read07...
"SteveL" <stevelon@deletethisbitntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:cYidnRQwk7A8d-PcRVnyiQ@giganews.com...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:38:29 -0400, "Gallows"
<NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote:
No, we'd been asking Roosevelt to join for quite some time actually.
Back
in your box, Fascist.
It's too much to expect that these rightards would actually know
history.
Right, and you hold fighting for something you don't believe in as a
principle. Learn to think, Steveo.
Kel made a point about protesting a wrong war on principle, you
twisted that into Kerry fighting for something he didn't believe in,
then extrapolated approval for your distortion onto Kel, and now to
steveo - who'd said nothing about any of this!!
Steve, can you read a thread? Let's review the conversation for our slow
witted friend Steve:
Kel: He admitted that appalling things happen during a war. That's a
true statement. Some of them are war crimes.
Gallows: So, tell me Kel, is it a principle that you hold true the one
that justifies war criminals not being punished for their crimes? Or at
least not have the right to become president?
Kel: It's never going to happen that Americans are made to answer for
their war crimes though, is it?
Gallows: Not by your standard.
As I've previously pointed you are somehow attempting to imply that I
favour war criminals being allowed to walk away scot free. That has never
been my argument. My argument is that you are attempting to wave a red
herring and somehow argue that Kerry (because of his admissions) is unfit
to be President. The reason no American will ever face war crime charges
is because George Bush refused to ratify the ICC. Kerry, on the other
hand, has argued that it should be ratified.
Someone does not have to belong to the ICC to be convicted of a war crime,
Kel. Proof: Abu Ghraib. Your proof: zero.
So which of the two, based on your wish to see war criminals punished,
should you vote for? By your logic it would have to be Kerry. There... now
you know what to do as a righteous man who hates war criminals.
The one that has not admitted to committing war crimes, Bush.
Gallows.
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| User: "Kel" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
29 Oct 2004 03:27:32 AM |
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"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:2Rfgd.80751$hj.59679@fed1read07...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:F4Nfd.55312$i02.16932@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:W1Dfd.78374$hj.12769@fed1read07...
"SteveL" <stevelon@deletethisbitntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:cYidnRQwk7A8d-PcRVnyiQ@giganews.com...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:38:29 -0400, "Gallows"
<NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote:
No, we'd been asking Roosevelt to join for quite some time actually.
Back
in your box, Fascist.
It's too much to expect that these rightards would actually know
history.
Right, and you hold fighting for something you don't believe in as a
principle. Learn to think, Steveo.
Kel made a point about protesting a wrong war on principle, you
twisted that into Kerry fighting for something he didn't believe in,
then extrapolated approval for your distortion onto Kel, and now to
steveo - who'd said nothing about any of this!!
Steve, can you read a thread? Let's review the conversation for our
slow witted friend Steve:
Kel: He admitted that appalling things happen during a war. That's a
true statement. Some of them are war crimes.
Gallows: So, tell me Kel, is it a principle that you hold true the one
that justifies war criminals not being punished for their crimes? Or at
least not have the right to become president?
Kel: It's never going to happen that Americans are made to answer for
their war crimes though, is it?
Gallows: Not by your standard.
As I've previously pointed you are somehow attempting to imply that I
favour war criminals being allowed to walk away scot free. That has never
been my argument. My argument is that you are attempting to wave a red
herring and somehow argue that Kerry (because of his admissions) is unfit
to be President. The reason no American will ever face war crime charges
is because George Bush refused to ratify the ICC. Kerry, on the other
hand, has argued that it should be ratified.
Someone does not have to belong to the ICC to be convicted of a war crime,
Kel. Proof: Abu Ghraib. Your proof: zero.
As I've said before, the convictions at Abu Ghraib are the equivalent of
jailing the monkey instead of the organ grinder. The war criminals are not
the grunts who carry out the policies, but the commanders who order them. In
this case, the person who should face war crime charges is Donald Rumsfeld.
.
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| User: "Gallows" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
29 Oct 2004 11:42:20 PM |
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"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:U9ngd.1202$T34.494@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:2Rfgd.80751$hj.59679@fed1read07...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:F4Nfd.55312$i02.16932@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:W1Dfd.78374$hj.12769@fed1read07...
"SteveL" <stevelon@deletethisbitntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:cYidnRQwk7A8d-PcRVnyiQ@giganews.com...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:38:29 -0400, "Gallows"
<NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote:
No, we'd been asking Roosevelt to join for quite some time
actually. Back
in your box, Fascist.
It's too much to expect that these rightards would actually know
history.
Right, and you hold fighting for something you don't believe in as a
principle. Learn to think, Steveo.
Kel made a point about protesting a wrong war on principle, you
twisted that into Kerry fighting for something he didn't believe in,
then extrapolated approval for your distortion onto Kel, and now to
steveo - who'd said nothing about any of this!!
Steve, can you read a thread? Let's review the conversation for our
slow witted friend Steve:
Kel: He admitted that appalling things happen during a war. That's a
true statement. Some of them are war crimes.
Gallows: So, tell me Kel, is it a principle that you hold true the one
that justifies war criminals not being punished for their crimes? Or
at least not have the right to become president?
Kel: It's never going to happen that Americans are made to answer for
their war crimes though, is it?
Gallows: Not by your standard.
As I've previously pointed you are somehow attempting to imply that I
favour war criminals being allowed to walk away scot free. That has
never been my argument. My argument is that you are attempting to wave a
red herring and somehow argue that Kerry (because of his admissions) is
unfit to be President. The reason no American will ever face war crime
charges is because George Bush refused to ratify the ICC. Kerry, on the
other hand, has argued that it should be ratified.
Someone does not have to belong to the ICC to be convicted of a war
crime, Kel. Proof: Abu Ghraib. Your proof: zero.
As I've said before, the convictions at Abu Ghraib are the equivalent of
jailing the monkey instead of the organ grinder. The war criminals are not
the grunts who carry out the policies, but the commanders who order them.
In this case, the person who should face war crime charges is Donald
Rumsfeld.
How do you know this? A hunch? It is BULL *****.
Gallows.
.
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| User: "Kel" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
30 Oct 2004 05:25:40 AM |
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"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:FYEgd.83570$hj.47784@fed1read07...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:U9ngd.1202$T34.494@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:2Rfgd.80751$hj.59679@fed1read07...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:F4Nfd.55312$i02.16932@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:W1Dfd.78374$hj.12769@fed1read07...
"SteveL" <stevelon@deletethisbitntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:cYidnRQwk7A8d-PcRVnyiQ@giganews.com...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:38:29 -0400, "Gallows"
<NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote:
No, we'd been asking Roosevelt to join for quite some time
actually. Back
in your box, Fascist.
It's too much to expect that these rightards would actually know
history.
Right, and you hold fighting for something you don't believe in as a
principle. Learn to think, Steveo.
Kel made a point about protesting a wrong war on principle, you
twisted that into Kerry fighting for something he didn't believe in,
then extrapolated approval for your distortion onto Kel, and now to
steveo - who'd said nothing about any of this!!
Steve, can you read a thread? Let's review the conversation for our
slow witted friend Steve:
Kel: He admitted that appalling things happen during a war. That's a
true statement. Some of them are war crimes.
Gallows: So, tell me Kel, is it a principle that you hold true the
one that justifies war criminals not being punished for their crimes?
Or at least not have the right to become president?
Kel: It's never going to happen that Americans are made to answer for
their war crimes though, is it?
Gallows: Not by your standard.
As I've previously pointed you are somehow attempting to imply that I
favour war criminals being allowed to walk away scot free. That has
never been my argument. My argument is that you are attempting to wave
a red herring and somehow argue that Kerry (because of his admissions)
is unfit to be President. The reason no American will ever face war
crime charges is because George Bush refused to ratify the ICC. Kerry,
on the other hand, has argued that it should be ratified.
Someone does not have to belong to the ICC to be convicted of a war
crime, Kel. Proof: Abu Ghraib. Your proof: zero.
As I've said before, the convictions at Abu Ghraib are the equivalent of
jailing the monkey instead of the organ grinder. The war criminals are
not the grunts who carry out the policies, but the commanders who order
them. In this case, the person who should face war crime charges is
Donald Rumsfeld.
How do you know this? A hunch? It is BULL *****.
"Well, if you look at the chronology and the charts, we know that back in
August of 2003, there was a meeting held between Donald Rumsfeld, Stephen
Cambone, the undersecretary of intelligence and defense, as well as Major
General Miller, who was in charge of the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.
At that time, Major General Miller was told that he has to "Gitmotize," take
the interrogation techniques from Guantanamo Bay and bring them to Iraq,
specifically Abu Ghraib, for intelligence acquisition".
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0408/19/ltm.04.html
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| User: "Gallows" |
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| Title: Re: What the Democrats don't want you to see: |
01 Nov 2004 06:35:51 PM |
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"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:E_Jgd.11878$cn.7220@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:FYEgd.83570$hj.47784@fed1read07...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:U9ngd.1202$T34.494@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:2Rfgd.80751$hj.59679@fed1read07...
"Kel" <ostermanuk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:F4Nfd.55312$i02.16932@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Gallows" <NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote in message
news:W1Dfd.78374$hj.12769@fed1read07...
"SteveL" <stevelon@deletethisbitntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:cYidnRQwk7A8d-PcRVnyiQ@giganews.com...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:38:29 -0400, "Gallows"
<NotToTouchTheEarth@here.com> wrote:
No, we'd been asking Roosevelt to join for quite some time
actually. Back
in your box, Fascist.
It's too much to expect that these rightards would actually know
history.
Right, and you hold fighting for something you don't believe in as a
principle. Learn to think, Steveo.
Kel made a point about protesting a wrong war on principle, you
twisted that into Kerry fighting for something he didn't believe in,
then extrapolated approval for your distortion onto Kel, and now to
steveo - who'd said nothing about any of this!!
Steve, can you read a thread? Let's review the conversation for our
slow witted friend Steve:
Kel: He admitted that appalling things happen during a war. That's a
true statement. Some of them are war crimes.
Gallows: So, tell me Kel, is it a principle that you hold true the
one that justifies war criminals not being punished for their crimes?
Or at least not have the right to become president?
Kel: It's never going to happen that Americans are made to answer
for their war crimes though, is it?
Gallows: Not by your standard.
As I've previously pointed you are somehow attempting to imply that I
favour war criminals being allowed to walk away scot free. That has
never been my argument. My argument is that you are attempting to wave
a red herring and somehow argue that Kerry (because of his admissions)
is unfit to be President. The reason no American will ever face war
crime charges is because George Bush refused to ratify the ICC. Kerry,
on the other hand, has argued that it should be ratified.
Someone does not have to belong to the ICC to be convicted of a war
crime, Kel. Proof: Abu Ghraib. Your proof: zero.
As I've said before, the convictions at Abu Ghraib are the equivalent of
jailing the monkey instead of the organ grinder. The war criminals are
not the grunts who carry out the policies, but the commanders who order
them. In this case, the person who should face war crime charges is
Donald Rumsfeld.
How do you know this? A hunch? It is BULL *****.
"Well, if you look at the chronology and the charts, we know that back in
August of 2003, there was a meeting held between Donald Rumsfeld, Stephen
Cambone, the undersecretary of intelligence and defense, as well as Major
General Miller, who was in charge of the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.
At that time, Major General Miller was told that he has to "Gitmotize,"
take the interrogation techniques from Guantanamo Bay and bring them to
Iraq, specifically Abu Ghraib, for intelligence acquisition".
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0408/19/ltm.04.html
Okay, cite any legitimate source that states the things that happened at Abu
Ghraib happened at Gitmo? If you can't, "gitmotize"ing Abu Ghraib would not
be a bad thing. Poor terrorist.
Gallows.
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