| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Big Bush Mandate" |
| Date: |
05 Nov 2004 09:57:22 AM |
| Object: |
What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
What would be the best way to begin privatizing our failed Social Security
system that the Democrat Party created? Several ideas come to mind:
1) Continue the employee and employer taxation the same as currently
exists, except funnel ALL of it into privately-owned and operated mutual
funds - Fidelity, T. Rowe Price, etc. etc. etc. - spreading out the money
over all mutual fund companies that currently exist. NO more flowing of the
Social Security taxes into the federal government slush fund as is now being
done.
2) Continue the employee and employer taxation as currently exists, except
reduce the amount which is pouring into the federal government slush fund by
50% or so, with the balance going to a mutual fund designated by the
employee, over which he will exercise authority.
3) Continue the Social Security system exactly as it is, but meet the
projected shortfall by taxing all registered Democrats, and ONLY registered
Democrats, to meet the shortfall, since it was the Democrats who created
that Ponzi scheme in the first place and since it was the Democrats who have
controlled Congress for most of the past 40 years.
4) Exempt all those employees under the age of say 40 years or so from
Social Security taxation, and allow them to do as they wish concerning their
own retirement. Then reduce federal spending by cutting the various welfare
programs (not defense spending, however) and use that resulting surplus to
continue funding the failed Social Security system until the last person
scheduled for SS benefits finally passes away.
.
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| User: "ausstu" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
06 Nov 2004 02:29:50 AM |
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"Big Bush Mandate" <Dems@OutInTheCold.com> wrote in message news:<CpNid.4769$O11.3059@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
What would be the best way to begin privatizing our failed Social Security
system that the Democrat Party created? Several ideas come to mind:
1) Continue the employee and employer taxation the same as currently
exists, except funnel ALL of it into privately-owned and operated mutual
funds - Fidelity, T. Rowe Price, etc. etc. etc. - spreading out the money
over all mutual fund companies that currently exist. NO more flowing of the
Social Security taxes into the federal government slush fund as is now being
done.
2) Continue the employee and employer taxation as currently exists, except
reduce the amount which is pouring into the federal government slush fund by
50% or so, with the balance going to a mutual fund designated by the
employee, over which he will exercise authority.
3) Continue the Social Security system exactly as it is, but meet the
projected shortfall by taxing all registered Democrats, and ONLY registered
Democrats, to meet the shortfall, since it was the Democrats who created
that Ponzi scheme in the first place and since it was the Democrats who have
controlled Congress for most of the past 40 years.
4) Exempt all those employees under the age of say 40 years or so from
Social Security taxation, and allow them to do as they wish concerning their
own retirement. Then reduce federal spending by cutting the various welfare
programs (not defense spending, however) and use that resulting surplus to
continue funding the failed Social Security system until the last person
scheduled for SS benefits finally passes away.
I think Bush's plan will be to underfund social security letting old
people die, so that young people can invest their retirement funds in
the stock market.
.
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| User: "Cyrakis" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
05 Nov 2004 05:32:38 PM |
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"Big Bush Mandate" <Dems@OutInTheCold.com> wrote in message news:<CpNid.4769$O11.3059@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
What would be the best way to begin privatizing our failed Social Security
system that the Democrat Party created? Several ideas come to mind:
1) Continue the employee and employer taxation the same as currently
exists, except funnel ALL of it into privately-owned and operated mutual
funds - Fidelity, T. Rowe Price, etc. etc. etc. - spreading out the money
over all mutual fund companies that currently exist. NO more flowing of the
Social Security taxes into the federal government slush fund as is now being
done.
Why does the government need to be involved in investment in mutual
funds at all? This proposal seems really odd. The government taxes
someone involuntarily, and then takes that money and gives it to a
private investment company? There are no guarantees that those
investment companies will make money, or even stay solvent. This
sounds like you just put the IRS to work for T. Rowe price, and gave
mutual fund managers the right to imprison people who don't contribute
to their funds.
2) Continue the employee and employer taxation as currently exists, except
reduce the amount which is pouring into the federal government slush fund by
50% or so, with the balance going to a mutual fund designated by the
employee, over which he will exercise authority.
The social security system never should have been a government slush
fund. If it had actually been funded and set aside as an endowment, it
might actually be generating money, instead of being a mega debt load
on future generations.
3) Continue the Social Security system exactly as it is, but meet the
projected shortfall by taxing all registered Democrats, and ONLY registered
Democrats, to meet the shortfall, since it was the Democrats who created
that Ponzi scheme in the first place and since it was the Democrats who have
controlled Congress for most of the past 40 years.
Well, now you are just being silly. Majority rules in a democracy
(mostly), and the minority gets to follow their direction. Plenty of
democrats opposed various elements of military spending, yet they
don't get an option to pay less on their taxes because they don't
support B1 bombers.
4) Exempt all those employees under the age of say 40 years or so from
Social Security taxation, and allow them to do as they wish concerning their
own retirement. Then reduce federal spending by cutting the various welfare
programs (not defense spending, however) and use that resulting surplus to
continue funding the failed Social Security system until the last person
scheduled for SS benefits finally passes away.
Social security should be radically changed, that is certain. I think
my comment about making it an actual endowment, instead of a bunch of
IOU's has some merit. If the social security fund was a huge pot of
capital, that was earning interest, potentially the interest earned on
that fund could be enough to pay the social security payments needed
by qualifying citizens. The problem with it now, is that the money
collected for social security is added to the federal government's
general fund, and the federal government can not resist spending that
money. The only part set aside is that minimum amount required to pay
off existing claims.
Individualizing the system would be better than the current state, but
it begs the question, why have it at all? Why not just end social
security taxation, and allow all individuals access to individual
retirement accounts? Giving a law enforcement function to T. Rowe
Price does not seem right to me.
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| User: "Joe Broke" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
05 Nov 2004 11:15:24 PM |
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Whoever decided Social Security money should go into the General Fund
where it could be spent on "whatever" should be drawn and quartered in
the square. But arguing over how the whole horrible mess got where it is
now isn't going to solve a thing.
I thing it might go like this:
If you're 18, you can take up to 5% of your SS owed (7.65%) (or about
0.4% of your check up to limits) and open a SPECIAL NEW KIND of account,
which will be much like an IRA -- not a ROTH IRA, but rather the old
style IRA, where it is self-directed and grows tax-deferred, and you pay
taxes on it when you begin to withdraw money many years later.
Now when you turn 65 (or 75 or 85 -- whatever the retirement age is when
you're that old) you get 5% less benefits in your SS check, because you
paid 5% less into the system when you were young. And you're supposed to
be able to make up that 5% difference from your self-directed IRA-type
account, which you started back when you were 18, or whenever. So now
you have two revenue streams when you retire, instead of just one,
Social Security.
The "trick" here will be that you're only getting to take out 5% of
*your half* of your paycheck's SS owed, not your employer's additional
half. Then when you retire, the government holds back 5% of your ENTIRE
SS check (not just the half you paid into), because most people won't
ever think about the fact that half their SS is paid by their employers.
(See, I'm thinking like a conniving politician now!)
Three years years later (when you're 21) you can take up to 10% of your
SS owed out, then in another 3 years (when you're 24) 15%, etc., etc.,
on up to a limit of say, 50%.
Without the "trick" mentioned above, the current system will certainly
go bankrupt in the mean time, because for all these decades, Social
Security money has been going into the General Fund instead of being set
aside/invested for its own committed purpose, where it could be raided
for any other purpose congress wanted, and the US economy got quickly
into the deadly cycle of using currently withheld SS money to pay
current retiree's SS benefits. (Another example of your government
dollars (and politicians' brains) at work.)
But with the TRICK, it just might fly. :-)
Joe
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| User: "bill" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
05 Nov 2004 11:49:46 PM |
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In article <Joe-B45FB3.21152405112004@news.supernews.com>,
Joe Broke <Joe@ReallyBroke.net> wrote:
Whoever decided Social Security money should go into the General Fund
where it could be spent on "whatever" should be drawn and quartered in
the square. But arguing over how the whole horrible mess got where it is
now isn't going to solve a thing.
I thing it might go like this:
If you're 18, you can take up to 5% of your SS owed (7.65%) (or about
0.4% of your check up to limits) and open a SPECIAL NEW KIND of account,
which will be much like an IRA -- not a ROTH IRA, but rather the old
style IRA, where it is self-directed and grows tax-deferred, and you pay
taxes on it when you begin to withdraw money many years later.
Now when you turn 65 (or 75 or 85 -- whatever the retirement age is when
you're that old) you get 5% less benefits in your SS check, because you
paid 5% less into the system when you were young. And you're supposed to
be able to make up that 5% difference from your self-directed IRA-type
account, which you started back when you were 18, or whenever. So now
you have two revenue streams when you retire, instead of just one,
Social Security.
The "trick" here will be that you're only getting to take out 5% of
*your half* of your paycheck's SS owed, not your employer's additional
half. Then when you retire, the government holds back 5% of your ENTIRE
SS check (not just the half you paid into), because most people won't
ever think about the fact that half their SS is paid by their employers.
(See, I'm thinking like a conniving politician now!)
Three years years later (when you're 21) you can take up to 10% of your
SS owed out, then in another 3 years (when you're 24) 15%, etc., etc.,
on up to a limit of say, 50%.
Without the "trick" mentioned above, the current system will certainly
go bankrupt in the mean time, because for all these decades, Social
Security money has been going into the General Fund instead of being set
aside/invested for its own committed purpose, where it could be raided
for any other purpose congress wanted, and the US economy got quickly
into the deadly cycle of using currently withheld SS money to pay
current retiree's SS benefits. (Another example of your government
dollars (and politicians' brains) at work.)
But with the TRICK, it just might fly. :-)
Joe
Need to run that with population and incomes. See if it works.
Anyone?
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| User: "Erik A. Mattila" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
06 Nov 2004 10:27:32 AM |
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Joe Broke wrote:
Whoever decided Social Security money should go into the General Fund
where it could be spent on "whatever" should be drawn and quartered in
the square. But arguing over how the whole horrible mess got where it is
now isn't going to solve a thing.
I thing it might go like this:
If you're 18, you can take up to 5% of your SS owed (7.65%) (or about
0.4% of your check up to limits) and open a SPECIAL NEW KIND of account,
which will be much like an IRA -- not a ROTH IRA, but rather the old
style IRA, where it is self-directed and grows tax-deferred, and you pay
taxes on it when you begin to withdraw money many years later.
Now when you turn 65 (or 75 or 85 -- whatever the retirement age is when
you're that old) you get 5% less benefits in your SS check, because you
paid 5% less into the system when you were young. And you're supposed to
be able to make up that 5% difference from your self-directed IRA-type
account, which you started back when you were 18, or whenever. So now
you have two revenue streams when you retire, instead of just one,
Social Security.
The "trick" here will be that you're only getting to take out 5% of
*your half* of your paycheck's SS owed, not your employer's additional
half. Then when you retire, the government holds back 5% of your ENTIRE
SS check (not just the half you paid into), because most people won't
ever think about the fact that half their SS is paid by their employers.
(See, I'm thinking like a conniving politician now!)
Three years years later (when you're 21) you can take up to 10% of your
SS owed out, then in another 3 years (when you're 24) 15%, etc., etc.,
on up to a limit of say, 50%.
Without the "trick" mentioned above, the current system will certainly
go bankrupt in the mean time, because for all these decades, Social
Security money has been going into the General Fund instead of being set
aside/invested for its own committed purpose, where it could be raided
for any other purpose congress wanted, and the US economy got quickly
into the deadly cycle of using currently withheld SS money to pay
current retiree's SS benefits. (Another example of your government
dollars (and politicians' brains) at work.)
But with the TRICK, it just might fly. :-)
Joe
Your proposal might appear a tad more credible if you changed your
handle to, say...Joe Solvent. ;-)
.
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| User: "J Dubya" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
06 Nov 2004 11:20:28 AM |
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Big Bush Mandate wrote:
What would be the best way to begin privatizing our failed Social Security
system that the Democrat Party created?
SS was supposed to be a safety net for working people at the
bottom of the socio-economic ladder. Let's make it that again
by implementing means testing: if you make over a certain amount
(TBD, though in the interest of full disclosure, no matter what
that amount is, I will certainly be over it), you get no SS $.
Privatization is a debacle waiting to happen.
Most people are clueless about investing, and
would end up destitute (or at least worse off)
if left to do so on their own.
-J Dubya
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| User: "mhirtes" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
06 Nov 2004 12:41:59 PM |
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In article <4J7jd.209$Mr4.187@fe61.usenetserver.com>,
J Dubya <jbwinston@gmail.com> wrote:
Big Bush Mandate wrote:
What would be the best way to begin privatizing our failed Social Security
system that the Democrat Party created?
SS was supposed to be a safety net for working people at the
bottom of the socio-economic ladder. Let's make it that again
by implementing means testing: if you make over a certain amount
(TBD, though in the interest of full disclosure, no matter what
that amount is, I will certainly be over it), you get no SS $.
Privatization is a debacle waiting to happen.
Most people are clueless about investing, and
would end up destitute (or at least worse off)
if left to do so on their own.
-J Dubya
The good thing to hope for is that almost no one has been foolish enough
to take up on Bush's Medicare card scam. Chances are only a few will be
stupid enough to take the risk and opt for Bush's SS privitazation offer
either.
What if they held a Social Security / Medicare revolution and nobody
came?
.
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| User: "Jesus Was A Liberal" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
05 Nov 2004 10:10:29 AM |
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If I can't have the power of the largest, most stable pension fund ever
created, then give me back my money, and let me invest it how I like, and
where I like.
The true benefit of Social Security was that it was backed by the US
Government, which used to be fiscally sound. Now Bush is taking down the
USG, and taking the dollar with it, I want to move my pension funds out of
the US, and into non-dollar-denominated equities. All savvy investors are
getting out of the dollar fast and furious.
If you're serious about privatization, then you must provide an opt-out.
Period.
Liberal Jesus
"Big Bush Mandate" <Dems@OutInTheCold.com> wrote in message
news:CpNid.4769$O11.3059@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
What would be the best way to begin privatizing our failed Social Security
system that the Democrat Party created? Several ideas come to mind:
1) Continue the employee and employer taxation the same as currently
exists, except funnel ALL of it into privately-owned and operated mutual
funds - Fidelity, T. Rowe Price, etc. etc. etc. - spreading out the money
over all mutual fund companies that currently exist. NO more flowing of
the Social Security taxes into the federal government slush fund as is now
being done.
2) Continue the employee and employer taxation as currently exists,
except reduce the amount which is pouring into the federal government
slush fund by 50% or so, with the balance going to a mutual fund
designated by the employee, over which he will exercise authority.
3) Continue the Social Security system exactly as it is, but meet the
projected shortfall by taxing all registered Democrats, and ONLY
registered Democrats, to meet the shortfall, since it was the Democrats
who created that Ponzi scheme in the first place and since it was the
Democrats who have controlled Congress for most of the past 40 years.
4) Exempt all those employees under the age of say 40 years or so from
Social Security taxation, and allow them to do as they wish concerning
their own retirement. Then reduce federal spending by cutting the various
welfare programs (not defense spending, however) and use that resulting
surplus to continue funding the failed Social Security system until the
last person scheduled for SS benefits finally passes away.
.
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| User: "Big Bush Mandate" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
05 Nov 2004 10:53:51 AM |
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"Jesus Was A Liberal" <jesus@galilee.org> wrote in message
news:VBNid.299885$wV.232908@attbi_s54...
If you're serious about privatization, then you must provide an opt-out.
Period.
No, we don't have to "must" do anything. And we ESPECIALLY don't have to
"must" do what the loser DEMOCRATS in the House or the Senate might want.
Why? Because they are the LOSERS, while the Republicans are the winners,
of our democratic process.
"Big Bush Mandate" <Dems@OutInTheCold.com> wrote in message
news:CpNid.4769$O11.3059@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
What would be the best way to begin privatizing our failed Social
Security system that the Democrat Party created? Several ideas come to
mind:
1) Continue the employee and employer taxation the same as currently
exists, except funnel ALL of it into privately-owned and operated mutual
funds - Fidelity, T. Rowe Price, etc. etc. etc. - spreading out the money
over all mutual fund companies that currently exist. NO more flowing of
the Social Security taxes into the federal government slush fund as is
now being done.
2) Continue the employee and employer taxation as currently exists,
except reduce the amount which is pouring into the federal government
slush fund by 50% or so, with the balance going to a mutual fund
designated by the employee, over which he will exercise authority.
3) Continue the Social Security system exactly as it is, but meet the
projected shortfall by taxing all registered Democrats, and ONLY
registered Democrats, to meet the shortfall, since it was the Democrats
who created that Ponzi scheme in the first place and since it was the
Democrats who have controlled Congress for most of the past 40 years.
4) Exempt all those employees under the age of say 40 years or so from
Social Security taxation, and allow them to do as they wish concerning
their own retirement. Then reduce federal spending by cutting the
various welfare programs (not defense spending, however) and use that
resulting surplus to continue funding the failed Social Security system
until the last person scheduled for SS benefits finally passes away.
.
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| User: "Jesus Was A Liberal" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
05 Nov 2004 11:12:22 AM |
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"Big Bush Mandate" <Dems@OutInTheCold.com> wrote in message
news:zeOid.4833$O11.4705@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Jesus Was A Liberal" <jesus@galilee.org> wrote in message
news:VBNid.299885$wV.232908@attbi_s54...
If you're serious about privatization, then you must provide an opt-out.
Period.
No, we don't have to "must" do anything. And we ESPECIALLY don't have to
"must" do what the loser DEMOCRATS in the House or the Senate might want.
Why? Because they are the LOSERS, while the Republicans are the winners,
of our democratic process.
Listen you money-grabbing Socialist, if I had your genius and a quarter I
could call someone to give you a clue. You can't take my Social Security
and invest it in your loser-***** corporation.
Why do you Bush Socialists want to grab my money? Can't make profits the
old fashioned way?
Here comes the clue train. Better get a ticket.
Liberal Jesus
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| User: "bill" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
05 Nov 2004 10:16:24 AM |
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In article <VBNid.299885$wV.232908@attbi_s54>,
"Jesus Was A Liberal" <jesus@galilee.org> wrote:
If I can't have the power of the largest, most stable pension fund ever
created, then give me back my money, and let me invest it how I like, and
where I like.
The true benefit of Social Security was that it was backed by the US
Government, which used to be fiscally sound. Now Bush is taking down the
USG, and taking the dollar with it, I want to move my pension funds out of
the US, and into non-dollar-denominated equities. All savvy investors are
getting out of the dollar fast and furious.
If you're serious about privatization, then you must provide an opt-out.
Period.
Liberal Jesus
No. You have never had that option before why would you get it now?
That's like opting out of paying taxes.
I'd say not privitazation but private control.
You know like PERS people have.
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| User: "no paper" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
05 Nov 2004 10:58:23 AM |
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On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:57:22 +0000, Big Bush Mandate(sic) wrote:
--confused ideas about the third rail of American Politics. In it he
displayed his complete lack of knowledge of why any sane Republican or
Democrat will ever make major changes to Social Security:
1) For all its small flaws it works better than anything else.
2) The elderly have a real aversion to starving to death
3) The rich don't have to pay for it. Except for the Medicare part any
income after $100,000 is exempt.
4) Baby boomers are getting on in years and most by now have learned how
to vote (although lately not always wisely).
5) AARP
Except for this Man-dater you have made some very good suggestions
</sarcasm>.
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| User: "Big Bush Mandate" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
05 Nov 2004 10:59:24 AM |
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"no paper" <trail2004@election.gov> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.11.05.16.58.20.698671@election.gov...
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:57:22 +0000, Big Bush Mandate(sic) wrote:
--confused ideas about the third rail of American Politics. In it he
displayed his complete lack of knowledge of why any sane Republican or
Democrat will ever make major changes to Social Security:
I've noticed that liberal Democrat posters have quite a track record of
uttering PROPHESIES in these newsgroups.
It has also been my observation that RARELY do their demmie prophesies come
true. For example, there were numerous posters (perhaps you're not one of
them, however) who prophesied that John Kerry would "win the race for the
White House". Some of the more-deranged demmie posters even went so far as
to prophesy that "the Democrats will win back the Senate" or would "increase
their seats in the House" or would "increase their seats in the Senate".
Needless to say, NONE of those demmie prophesies came true.
So I hope you won't feel personally offended if I have SERIOUS doubts about
YOUR prophesy above being rather worthless, madam.
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| User: "bill" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
05 Nov 2004 10:52:08 AM |
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In article <pan.2004.11.05.16.58.20.698671@election.gov>,
no paper <trail2004@election.gov> wrote:
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:57:22 +0000, Big Bush Mandate(sic) wrote:
--confused ideas about the third rail of American Politics. In it he
displayed his complete lack of knowledge of why any sane Republican or
Democrat will ever make major changes to Social Security:
1) For all its small flaws it works better than anything else.
2) The elderly have a real aversion to starving to death
3) The rich don't have to pay for it. Except for the Medicare part any
income after $100,000 is exempt.
4) Baby boomers are getting on in years and most by now have learned how
to vote (although lately not always wisely).
5) AARP
Except for this Man-dater you have made some very good suggestions
</sarcasm>.
You're a dolt. It will go bankrupt. It's inadequate. It needs to be free
of Congress robbing from it. It needs to be fairer, meaning all must pay.
How about you quit bitching and offer some solutions or just stick your
head in the sand and keep repeating it's all fine.
.
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| User: "LiberalConservative" |
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| Title: Re: What's the Best Way to Begin Privatizing Social Security? |
05 Nov 2004 09:54:46 PM |
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take the whole Social Security fund and bet it on Red 31.
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