When terrorists are not terrorists



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "Paul Abeles"
Date: 18 May 2004 09:25:24 PM
Object: When terrorists are not terrorists
I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who are being
slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists. They are
resistance fighters defending their homes.
Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists. The IDF when
it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.
Can we please differentiate?
.

User: "Follow-Up Guy"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 07:40:05 AM
"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message news:<oAzqc.46809$TT.5205@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who are being
slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists. They are
resistance fighters defending their homes.

Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists. The IDF when
it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?

******
The best definition of "Terrorism" I have found is the definition
given in Britannica.com, which is . . .
TERRORISM is "the systematic use of violence to create a general
climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a
particular political objective." Source: Britannica.com

http://www.britannica.com/search?query=terrorism&ct=
By this definition, both Israel and the USA are also guilty of
terrorism whenever they try to suppress legitimate resistance to
occupation by inflicting "accidental" death and injury to the civilian
populations of Occupied Palestine and Occupied Iraq.
In both cases, the best way to end terrorism on both sides of both
places is to end both occupations.

Rev. Bill McGinnis

http://LoveAllPeople.org
http://Anti-Terrorist.net
.
User: "Paul Abeles"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 07:44:31 AM
"Follow-Up Guy" <FollowUpGuy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dc8ed332.0405190440.3099c814@posting.google.com...

"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message

news:<oAzqc.46809$TT.5205@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists. They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.

Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists. The IDF

when

it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?


******

The best definition of "Terrorism" I have found is the definition
given in Britannica.com, which is . . .

TERRORISM is "the systematic use of violence to create a general
climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a
particular political objective." Source: Britannica.com

http://www.britannica.com/search?query=terrorism&ct=

By this definition, both Israel and the USA are also guilty of
terrorism whenever they try to suppress legitimate resistance to
occupation by inflicting "accidental" death and injury to the civilian
populations of Occupied Palestine and Occupied Iraq.

In both cases, the best way to end terrorism on both sides of both
places is to end both occupations.

Rev. Bill McGinnis



http://LoveAllPeople.org
http://Anti-Terrorist.net

I'm not sure about the US in Iraq but certainly Israel seems to fit the
definition.
.
User: "Count 1"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 09:27:30 AM
"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:PEIqc.47633$TT.17567@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Follow-Up Guy" <FollowUpGuy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dc8ed332.0405190440.3099c814@posting.google.com...

"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message

news:<oAzqc.46809$TT.5205@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists. They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.

Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists. The IDF

when

it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?


******

The best definition of "Terrorism" I have found is the definition
given in Britannica.com, which is . . .

TERRORISM is "the systematic use of violence to create a general
climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a
particular political objective." Source: Britannica.com

http://www.britannica.com/search?query=terrorism&ct=

By this definition, both Israel and the USA are also guilty of
terrorism whenever they try to suppress legitimate resistance to
occupation by inflicting "accidental" death and injury to the civilian
populations of Occupied Palestine and Occupied Iraq.

In both cases, the best way to end terrorism on both sides of both
places is to end both occupations.

Rev. Bill McGinnis



http://LoveAllPeople.org
http://Anti-Terrorist.net


I'm not sure about the US in Iraq but certainly Israel seems to fit the
definition.

Nope. Israel is merely defending herself against a group whose charter
specifically calls for her destruction. In your zeal to condemn anything
Israel does have you looked into Hamas's charter? Its quite revealing.
You should also look up the Islamic practice of 'taqqiya'.
Israel has offered a solution to the Palestinians on no less than 5
occasions. The Palestinians have rejected peace options everytime. Why?
Because of something called 'blind hatred'.
While I agree that a suicide bomber targetting IDF troops is not a terrorist
(terrorists hit civilians, not military targets) that *still* doesn't make
their actions legitimate. Targetting the IDF is only going to lead to more
death and continued suffering for the Palestinians.
.
User: "Paul Abeles"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 10:10:34 AM
"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h196pF7sg3nU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:PEIqc.47633$TT.17567@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Follow-Up Guy" <FollowUpGuy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dc8ed332.0405190440.3099c814@posting.google.com...

"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message

news:<oAzqc.46809$TT.5205@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who

are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists.

They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.

Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists. The

IDF

when

it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?


******

The best definition of "Terrorism" I have found is the definition
given in Britannica.com, which is . . .

TERRORISM is "the systematic use of violence to create a general
climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a
particular political objective." Source: Britannica.com

http://www.britannica.com/search?query=terrorism&ct=

By this definition, both Israel and the USA are also guilty of
terrorism whenever they try to suppress legitimate resistance to
occupation by inflicting "accidental" death and injury to the civilian
populations of Occupied Palestine and Occupied Iraq.

In both cases, the best way to end terrorism on both sides of both
places is to end both occupations.

Rev. Bill McGinnis



http://LoveAllPeople.org
http://Anti-Terrorist.net


I'm not sure about the US in Iraq but certainly Israel seems to fit the
definition.


Nope. Israel is merely defending herself against a group whose charter
specifically calls for her destruction. In your zeal to condemn anything
Israel does have you looked into Hamas's charter? Its quite revealing.
You should also look up the Islamic practice of 'taqqiya'.

Israel has offered a solution to the Palestinians on no less than 5
occasions. The Palestinians have rejected peace options everytime. Why?
Because of something called 'blind hatred'.

While I agree that a suicide bomber targetting IDF troops is not a

terrorist

(terrorists hit civilians, not military targets) that *still* doesn't make
their actions legitimate. Targetting the IDF is only going to lead to more
death and continued suffering for the Palestinians.

I agree, Hamas is a terrorist organization.
.
User: "Count 1"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 10:18:56 AM
"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:KNKqc.47790$TT.3523@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h196pF7sg3nU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:PEIqc.47633$TT.17567@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Follow-Up Guy" <FollowUpGuy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dc8ed332.0405190440.3099c814@posting.google.com...

"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message

news:<oAzqc.46809$TT.5205@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who

are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists.

They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.

Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists. The

IDF

when

it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?


******

The best definition of "Terrorism" I have found is the definition
given in Britannica.com, which is . . .

TERRORISM is "the systematic use of violence to create a general
climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a
particular political objective." Source: Britannica.com

http://www.britannica.com/search?query=terrorism&ct=

By this definition, both Israel and the USA are also guilty of
terrorism whenever they try to suppress legitimate resistance to
occupation by inflicting "accidental" death and injury to the

civilian

populations of Occupied Palestine and Occupied Iraq.

In both cases, the best way to end terrorism on both sides of both
places is to end both occupations.

Rev. Bill McGinnis



http://LoveAllPeople.org
http://Anti-Terrorist.net


I'm not sure about the US in Iraq but certainly Israel seems to fit

the

definition.


Nope. Israel is merely defending herself against a group whose charter
specifically calls for her destruction. In your zeal to condemn

anything

Israel does have you looked into Hamas's charter? Its quite revealing.
You should also look up the Islamic practice of 'taqqiya'.

Israel has offered a solution to the Palestinians on no less than 5
occasions. The Palestinians have rejected peace options everytime. Why?
Because of something called 'blind hatred'.

While I agree that a suicide bomber targetting IDF troops is not a

terrorist

(terrorists hit civilians, not military targets) that *still* doesn't

make

their actions legitimate. Targetting the IDF is only going to lead to

more

death and continued suffering for the Palestinians.


I agree, Hamas is a terrorist organization.

Funny how you chose to leave that out in your condemnation of Israel. Israel
is a nation state with every right to defend herself from any group or
organization calling for her destruction. Hamas does exactly that, and
Israel not only has the right of self defense, but also the MORAL
RESPONSIBILITY to protect her citizens.
.
User: "Paul Abeles"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 10:52:21 AM
"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h1c77F7rq6vU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:KNKqc.47790$TT.3523@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h196pF7sg3nU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:PEIqc.47633$TT.17567@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Follow-Up Guy" <FollowUpGuy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dc8ed332.0405190440.3099c814@posting.google.com...

"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message

news:<oAzqc.46809$TT.5205@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians

who

are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists.

Those

Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists.

They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.

Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists.

The

IDF

when

it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?


******

The best definition of "Terrorism" I have found is the definition
given in Britannica.com, which is . . .

TERRORISM is "the systematic use of violence to create a general
climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a
particular political objective." Source: Britannica.com

http://www.britannica.com/search?query=terrorism&ct=

By this definition, both Israel and the USA are also guilty of
terrorism whenever they try to suppress legitimate resistance to
occupation by inflicting "accidental" death and injury to the

civilian

populations of Occupied Palestine and Occupied Iraq.

In both cases, the best way to end terrorism on both sides of both
places is to end both occupations.

Rev. Bill McGinnis



http://LoveAllPeople.org
http://Anti-Terrorist.net


I'm not sure about the US in Iraq but certainly Israel seems to fit

the

definition.


Nope. Israel is merely defending herself against a group whose

charter

specifically calls for her destruction. In your zeal to condemn

anything

Israel does have you looked into Hamas's charter? Its quite

revealing.

You should also look up the Islamic practice of 'taqqiya'.

Israel has offered a solution to the Palestinians on no less than 5
occasions. The Palestinians have rejected peace options everytime.

Why?

Because of something called 'blind hatred'.

While I agree that a suicide bomber targetting IDF troops is not a

terrorist

(terrorists hit civilians, not military targets) that *still* doesn't

make

their actions legitimate. Targetting the IDF is only going to lead to

more

death and continued suffering for the Palestinians.


I agree, Hamas is a terrorist organization.


Funny how you chose to leave that out in your condemnation of Israel.

Israel

is a nation state with every right to defend herself from any group or
organization calling for her destruction. Hamas does exactly that, and
Israel not only has the right of self defense, but also the MORAL
RESPONSIBILITY to protect her citizens.

One could say the destruction of ALL Palestinians is protecting Israelis.
And I suppose you would support that strategy and morally justify it?
.
User: "Count 1"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 11:10:14 AM
"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:VoLqc.47798$TT.18561@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h1c77F7rq6vU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:KNKqc.47790$TT.3523@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h196pF7sg3nU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:PEIqc.47633$TT.17567@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Follow-Up Guy" <FollowUpGuy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dc8ed332.0405190440.3099c814@posting.google.com...

"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message

news:<oAzqc.46809$TT.5205@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians

who

are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists.

Those

Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not

terrorists.

They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.

Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists.

The

IDF

when

it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?


******

The best definition of "Terrorism" I have found is the

definition

given in Britannica.com, which is . . .

TERRORISM is "the systematic use of violence to create a

general

climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a
particular political objective." Source: Britannica.com

http://www.britannica.com/search?query=terrorism&ct=

By this definition, both Israel and the USA are also guilty of
terrorism whenever they try to suppress legitimate resistance to
occupation by inflicting "accidental" death and injury to the

civilian

populations of Occupied Palestine and Occupied Iraq.

In both cases, the best way to end terrorism on both sides of

both

places is to end both occupations.

Rev. Bill McGinnis



http://LoveAllPeople.org
http://Anti-Terrorist.net


I'm not sure about the US in Iraq but certainly Israel seems to

fit

the

definition.


Nope. Israel is merely defending herself against a group whose

charter

specifically calls for her destruction. In your zeal to condemn

anything

Israel does have you looked into Hamas's charter? Its quite

revealing.

You should also look up the Islamic practice of 'taqqiya'.

Israel has offered a solution to the Palestinians on no less than 5
occasions. The Palestinians have rejected peace options everytime.

Why?

Because of something called 'blind hatred'.

While I agree that a suicide bomber targetting IDF troops is not a

terrorist

(terrorists hit civilians, not military targets) that *still*

doesn't

make

their actions legitimate. Targetting the IDF is only going to lead

to

more

death and continued suffering for the Palestinians.


I agree, Hamas is a terrorist organization.


Funny how you chose to leave that out in your condemnation of Israel.

Israel

is a nation state with every right to defend herself from any group or
organization calling for her destruction. Hamas does exactly that, and
Israel not only has the right of self defense, but also the MORAL
RESPONSIBILITY to protect her citizens.


One could say the destruction of ALL Palestinians is protecting Israelis.
And I suppose you would support that strategy and morally justify it?

Nope. I would say the best thing for both parties is the two state
solution. Something Sharon is committed to seeing happen. I'm especially
looking forward to the international theater of the absurd an independent
nation state of Palestine becomes.
.
User: "Paul Abeles"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 08:50:18 PM
"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h1f7eF81knhU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:VoLqc.47798$TT.18561@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h1c77F7rq6vU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:KNKqc.47790$TT.3523@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h196pF7sg3nU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:PEIqc.47633$TT.17567@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Follow-Up Guy" <FollowUpGuy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dc8ed332.0405190440.3099c814@posting.google.com...

"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message

news:<oAzqc.46809$TT.5205@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those

Palestinians

who

are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists.

Those

Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not

terrorists.

They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.

Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are

terrorists.

The

IDF

when

it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?


******

The best definition of "Terrorism" I have found is the

definition

given in Britannica.com, which is . . .

TERRORISM is "the systematic use of violence to create a

general

climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about

a

particular political objective." Source: Britannica.com

http://www.britannica.com/search?query=terrorism&ct=

By this definition, both Israel and the USA are also guilty of
terrorism whenever they try to suppress legitimate resistance

to

occupation by inflicting "accidental" death and injury to the

civilian

populations of Occupied Palestine and Occupied Iraq.

In both cases, the best way to end terrorism on both sides of

both

places is to end both occupations.

Rev. Bill McGinnis



http://LoveAllPeople.org
http://Anti-Terrorist.net


I'm not sure about the US in Iraq but certainly Israel seems to

fit

the

definition.


Nope. Israel is merely defending herself against a group whose

charter

specifically calls for her destruction. In your zeal to condemn

anything

Israel does have you looked into Hamas's charter? Its quite

revealing.

You should also look up the Islamic practice of 'taqqiya'.

Israel has offered a solution to the Palestinians on no less than

5

occasions. The Palestinians have rejected peace options everytime.

Why?

Because of something called 'blind hatred'.

While I agree that a suicide bomber targetting IDF troops is not a

terrorist

(terrorists hit civilians, not military targets) that *still*

doesn't

make

their actions legitimate. Targetting the IDF is only going to lead

to

more

death and continued suffering for the Palestinians.


I agree, Hamas is a terrorist organization.


Funny how you chose to leave that out in your condemnation of Israel.

Israel

is a nation state with every right to defend herself from any group or
organization calling for her destruction. Hamas does exactly that,

and

Israel not only has the right of self defense, but also the MORAL
RESPONSIBILITY to protect her citizens.


One could say the destruction of ALL Palestinians is protecting

Israelis.

And I suppose you would support that strategy and morally justify it?


Nope. I would say the best thing for both parties is the two state
solution.

I agree. Why haven't they done it?
.
User: "The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 20 May 2004 03:01:19 AM
"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message news:<u9Uqc.49017$TT.5419@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h1f7eF81knhU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:VoLqc.47798$TT.18561@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h1c77F7rq6vU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:KNKqc.47790$TT.3523@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h196pF7sg3nU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:PEIqc.47633$TT.17567@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Follow-Up Guy" <FollowUpGuy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dc8ed332.0405190440.3099c814@posting.google.com...

"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message

news:<oAzqc.46809$TT.5205@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those

Palestinians
who
are
being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists.

Those

Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not

terrorists.
They
are

resistance fighters defending their homes.

Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are

terrorists.
The
IDF
when

it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?


******

The best definition of "Terrorism" I have found is the

definition

given in Britannica.com, which is . . .

TERRORISM is "the systematic use of violence to create a

general

climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about

a

particular political objective." Source: Britannica.com

http://www.britannica.com/search?query=terrorism&ct=

By this definition, both Israel and the USA are also guilty of
terrorism whenever they try to suppress legitimate resistance

to

occupation by inflicting "accidental" death and injury to the

civilian

populations of Occupied Palestine and Occupied Iraq.

In both cases, the best way to end terrorism on both sides of

both

places is to end both occupations.

Rev. Bill McGinnis



http://LoveAllPeople.org
http://Anti-Terrorist.net


I'm not sure about the US in Iraq but certainly Israel seems to

fit
the

definition.


Nope. Israel is merely defending herself against a group whose

charter

specifically calls for her destruction. In your zeal to condemn

anything

Israel does have you looked into Hamas's charter? Its quite

revealing.

You should also look up the Islamic practice of 'taqqiya'.

Israel has offered a solution to the Palestinians on no less than

5

occasions. The Palestinians have rejected peace options everytime.

Why?

Because of something called 'blind hatred'.

While I agree that a suicide bomber targetting IDF troops is not a

terrorist

(terrorists hit civilians, not military targets) that *still*

doesn't
make

their actions legitimate. Targetting the IDF is only going to lead

to
more

death and continued suffering for the Palestinians.


I agree, Hamas is a terrorist organization.


Funny how you chose to leave that out in your condemnation of Israel.

Israel

is a nation state with every right to defend herself from any group or
organization calling for her destruction. Hamas does exactly that,

and

Israel not only has the right of self defense, but also the MORAL
RESPONSIBILITY to protect her citizens.


One could say the destruction of ALL Palestinians is protecting

Israelis.

And I suppose you would support that strategy and morally justify it?


Nope. I would say the best thing for both parties is the two state
solution.


I agree. Why haven't they done it?

Because palestinians® are very much like you -- they want to live off
other peoples' taxes, american, european, israeli.
.

User: "Count 1"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 20 May 2004 10:31:49 AM

Nope. I would say the best thing for both parties is the two state
solution.


I agree. Why haven't they done it?

Because Palestinians don't want it. They keep rejecting it for a one state
solution or a two state solution with 'Right of Return'. RoR is a non
starter. Israel simply won't accept a defintion of 'refugee' created
specifically for Palestinian refugees - which extends refugee status to
descendents.
Look up what UNRWA is all about.
.
User: "Paul Abeles"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 20 May 2004 10:41:07 AM
"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h41baF8rd0gU1@uni-berlin.de...

Nope. I would say the best thing for both parties is the two state
solution.


I agree. Why haven't they done it?


Because Palestinians don't want it. They keep rejecting it for a one state
solution or a two state solution with 'Right of Return'. RoR is a non
starter. Israel simply won't accept a defintion of 'refugee' created
specifically for Palestinian refugees - which extends refugee status to
descendents.

Look up what UNRWA is all about.

The right of return for Arabs is morally justified but is probably suicidal
for a Jewish state.
.
User: "Count 1"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 20 May 2004 10:57:40 AM
"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:nk4rc.50285$TT.8846@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h41baF8rd0gU1@uni-berlin.de...

Nope. I would say the best thing for both parties is the two state
solution.


I agree. Why haven't they done it?


Because Palestinians don't want it. They keep rejecting it for a one

state

solution or a two state solution with 'Right of Return'. RoR is a non
starter. Israel simply won't accept a defintion of 'refugee' created
specifically for Palestinian refugees - which extends refugee status to
descendents.

Look up what UNRWA is all about.


The right of return for Arabs is morally justified but is probably

suicidal

for a Jewish state.

I'm not interested in your understanding of 'morally justified'. Its
equally morally unjustifiable for the Israeli government to agree to a deal
which could be described as 'suicidal'.
So its a non starter. You asked why there is no two state solution. Now
you know.
.
User: "itisme"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 20 May 2004 11:39:16 AM
When they are fighting for their freedom from mass murderers who are
occupying their land.
"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h42rqF86v80U1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:nk4rc.50285$TT.8846@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h41baF8rd0gU1@uni-berlin.de...

Nope. I would say the best thing for both parties is the two

state

solution.


I agree. Why haven't they done it?


Because Palestinians don't want it. They keep rejecting it for a one

state

solution or a two state solution with 'Right of Return'. RoR is a non
starter. Israel simply won't accept a defintion of 'refugee' created
specifically for Palestinian refugees - which extends refugee status

to

descendents.

Look up what UNRWA is all about.


The right of return for Arabs is morally justified but is probably

suicidal

for a Jewish state.



I'm not interested in your understanding of 'morally justified'. Its
equally morally unjustifiable for the Israeli government to agree to a

deal

which could be described as 'suicidal'.

So its a non starter. You asked why there is no two state solution. Now
you know.


.
User: "The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 21 May 2004 12:25:03 PM
"itisme" <itisme@texas.net> wrote in message news:<Ua5rc.3350$9f6.1403@fe2.texas.rr.com>...

When they are fighting for their freedom from mass murderers who are
occupying their land.

Arabs by definition do not know what freedom is, much less what to do
with it, so it's all meaningless soup of words.

"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h42rqF86v80U1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:nk4rc.50285$TT.8846@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h41baF8rd0gU1@uni-berlin.de...

Nope. I would say the best thing for both parties is the two

state

solution.


I agree. Why haven't they done it?


Because Palestinians don't want it. They keep rejecting it for a one

state

solution or a two state solution with 'Right of Return'. RoR is a non
starter. Israel simply won't accept a defintion of 'refugee' created
specifically for Palestinian refugees - which extends refugee status

to

descendents.

Look up what UNRWA is all about.


The right of return for Arabs is morally justified but is probably

suicidal

for a Jewish state.



I'm not interested in your understanding of 'morally justified'. Its
equally morally unjustifiable for the Israeli government to agree to a

deal

which could be described as 'suicidal'.

So its a non starter. You asked why there is no two state solution. Now
you know.


.




User: "Arthur Brain"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 21 May 2004 05:01:58 AM
"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message news:<2h41baF8rd0gU1@uni-berlin.de>...


RoR is a non
starter. Israel simply won't accept a defintion of 'refugee' created
specifically for Palestinian refugees - which extends refugee status to
descendents.


Funny how this idea doesn't stop the jewish descendants of war crimes
pursuing claims against the descendants of the war criminals.

The fact is, Israel made 900,000 refugees through ethnic-cleansing in
1948, and many more since. The only way to create peace for themselves
will be to deal with this crime once-and-for-all.
You say RoR is unacceptable, and I believe you, so the only option is
restitution through resettlement, genuine apology, and just
compensation, just like what the Krauts had to do for the survivors of
the holocaust.

But then again, who would be surprised to find out that genocidists
are hypocrites as well...?
.



User: "Mathias Donien"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 01:51:05 PM
Count 1 wrote:

Paul Abeles wrote:

Count 1 wrote:

Funny how you chose to leave that out in your condemnation of Israel.
Israel
is a nation state with every right to defend herself from any group or
organization calling for her destruction. Hamas does exactly that, and
Israel not only has the right of self defense, but also the MORAL
RESPONSIBILITY to protect her citizens.

One could say the destruction of ALL Palestinians is protecting Israelis.
And I suppose you would support that strategy and morally justify it?


Nope. I would say the best thing for both parties is the two state
solution. Something Sharon is committed to seeing happen. I'm especially
looking forward to the international theater of the absurd an independent
nation state of Palestine becomes.

It needs international support like Bosnia or Afghanistan to create
pluralistic structures.
.



User: "Mathias Donien"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 01:44:56 PM
Count 1 wrote:

Paul Abeles wrote:

I agree, Hamas is a terrorist organization.


Funny how you chose to leave that out in your condemnation of Israel. Israel
is a nation state with every right to defend herself from any group or
organization calling for her destruction. Hamas does exactly that, and
Israel not only has the right of self defense, but also the MORAL
RESPONSIBILITY to protect her citizens.

Agreed. But the question is: Are such actions really helpful in
achieving this aim or are these actions rather contraproductive.
.



User: "InsuranceBroker"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 09:37:57 AM

Subject: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists
From: "Count 1"


Date: 5/19/2004 10:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <2h196pF7sg3nU1@uni-berlin.de>


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:PEIqc.47633$TT.17567@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Follow-Up Guy" <FollowUpGuy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dc8ed332.0405190440.3099c814@posting.google.com...

"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message

news:<oAzqc.46809$TT.5205@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists. They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.

Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists. The IDF

when

it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?


******

The best definition of "Terrorism" I have found is the definition
given in Britannica.com, which is . . .

TERRORISM is "the systematic use of violence to create a general
climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a
particular political objective." Source: Britannica.com

http://www.britannica.com/search?query=terrorism&ct=

By this definition, both Israel and the USA are also guilty of
terrorism whenever they try to suppress legitimate resistance to
occupation by inflicting "accidental" death and injury to the civilian
populations of Occupied Palestine and Occupied Iraq.

In both cases, the best way to end terrorism on both sides of both
places is to end both occupations.

Rev. Bill McGinnis



http://LoveAllPeople.org
http://Anti-Terrorist.net


I'm not sure about the US in Iraq but certainly Israel seems to fit the
definition.


Nope. Israel is merely defending herself against a group whose charter
specifically calls for her destruction.

Except on the west bank were Israel is the occupier. It is not defense when
you are the aggressor.
In your zeal to condemn anything

Israel does have you looked into Hamas's charter? Its quite revealing.
You should also look up the Islamic practice of 'taqqiya'.

You are correct. Have you looked at the Israel actions like dropping 1100 lb
bombs on apartment buildings?


Israel has offered a solution to the Palestinians on no less than 5
occasions.

Israel has also blocked more that 5 UN actions. You cannot cry that the other
guy is wrong when you are clearnly part of the problem.
The Palestinians have rejected peace options everytime. Why?

Because of something called 'blind hatred'.

Well the Egyptian required the station of US troops between the Israel and
Egypt to get any agreement. You do know that the US has forces between egypt
and Israel. We need troops badly but we have to have them sitting doing
nothing but separation to make sure that Israel does not attack again.


While I agree that a suicide bomber targetting IDF troops is not a terrorist
(terrorists hit civilians, not military targets) that *still* doesn't make
their actions legitimate. Targetting the IDF is only going to lead to more
death and continued suffering for the Palestinians.

The IDF are foreign troops so they are targets. YOu can agree or disagree but
the west bank is not part of Israel.









Doing Insurance business in the Garden State
.




User: ""

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 05:59:26 AM
On Wed, 19 May 2004 02:25:24 GMT, "Paul Abeles"
<abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote:>I'm the first to condemn terrorism.
However those Palestinians who are being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists. They are
resistance fighters defending their homes.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad are terrorists.
.

User: "fritz"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 06:56:51 AM
Paul Abeles wrote ...
| I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who are being
| slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
| Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists. They are
| resistance fighters defending their homes.
|
| Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists. The IDF when
| it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.
|
| Can we please differentiate?
|
The IDF has just killed at least 9 Palestinians in a crowd who were protesting in Gaza.
The brave Israelis again fired a missile from the safety of a helicopter.
|
.

User: "bob young"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 20 May 2004 07:37:05 AM
Paul Abeles wrote:

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who are being
slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists. They are
resistance fighters defending their homes.

Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists. The IDF when
it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?

I think the Isaelis would like to live a peaceful existance and not have
lunatics with bombs strapped to their bodies blowing up teenagers in cafes.
This was a demonstration and parents had no right to let kids be there. They
are at a state of war. Kids should be kept at home away from the fighting.
Israel has tried everything to prevent the suicide bombers and continue to do
so, but the real authority to stop them should be the Palestinian
administration


.
User: "Paul Abeles"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 20 May 2004 09:42:12 AM
"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:40ACA516.12E09B5@netvigator.com...



Paul Abeles wrote:

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists. They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.

Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists. The IDF

when

it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?


I think the Isaelis would like to live a peaceful existance and not have
lunatics with bombs strapped to their bodies blowing up teenagers in

cafes.


This was a demonstration and parents had no right to let kids be there.

They

are at a state of war. Kids should be kept at home away from the

fighting.


Israel has tried everything to prevent the suicide bombers and continue to

do

so, but the real authority to stop them should be the Palestinian
administration

Just like the Yanks stopped 9/11 and the OK City bombing?
.
User: "The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 23 May 2004 03:47:28 AM
"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message news:<8t3rc.50113$TT.38438@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...

"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:40ACA516.12E09B5@netvigator.com...



Paul Abeles wrote:

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists. They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.

Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists. The IDF

when

it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?


I think the Isaelis would like to live a peaceful existance and not have
lunatics with bombs strapped to their bodies blowing up teenagers in

cafes.


This was a demonstration and parents had no right to let kids be there.

They

are at a state of war. Kids should be kept at home away from the

fighting.


Israel has tried everything to prevent the suicide bombers and continue to

do

so, but the real authority to stop them should be the Palestinian
administration



Just like the Yanks stopped 9/11 and the OK City bombing?

Just like rotashield to stop your verbal diarrhea. But you became more
diarrhetic. LOL
.



User: "Sheldon Liberman"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 18 May 2004 10:42:56 PM
Paul Abeles wrote:

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who are being
slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists. They are
resistance fighters defending their homes.

A surprising number of which were found to have had weapons or onramps
to tunnels. Go figure...


Those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis are terrorists. The IDF when
it kills innocent Palestinians is a terrorist organization.

Can we please differentiate?


.
User: "Paul Abeles"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 18 May 2004 11:36:12 PM
"Sheldon Liberman" <sheldon.liberman@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40AAD7C0.5020805@sympatico.ca...



Paul Abeles wrote:

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists. They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.


A surprising number of which were found to have had weapons or onramps
to tunnels. Go figure...

And how else are they expected to defend themselves from helicopters tanks
and missiles?
Now be fair and reasonable.
.
User: "Count 1"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 09:29:44 AM
"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:0vBqc.47002$TT.34170@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Sheldon Liberman" <sheldon.liberman@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40AAD7C0.5020805@sympatico.ca...



Paul Abeles wrote:

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists. They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.


A surprising number of which were found to have had weapons or onramps
to tunnels. Go figure...


And how else are they expected to defend themselves from helicopters tanks
and missiles?

Ironic that the tanks and missiles wouldn't be there if Hamas didn't send in
suicide bombers to specifically kill Israeli children.

Now be fair and reasonable.

And I'd ask you to do the same.
.
User: "Paul Abeles"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 10:08:33 AM
"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h19avF7p02sU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:0vBqc.47002$TT.34170@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Sheldon Liberman" <sheldon.liberman@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40AAD7C0.5020805@sympatico.ca...



Paul Abeles wrote:

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who

are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists.

They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.


A surprising number of which were found to have had weapons or onramps
to tunnels. Go figure...


And how else are they expected to defend themselves from helicopters

tanks

and missiles?


Ironic that the tanks and missiles wouldn't be there if Hamas didn't send

in

suicide bombers to specifically kill Israeli children.

Now be fair and reasonable.


And I'd ask you to do the same.

This is in Gaza NOT Israel.
.
User: "Count 1"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 10:14:40 AM
"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:RLKqc.47789$TT.11679@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h19avF7p02sU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:0vBqc.47002$TT.34170@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Sheldon Liberman" <sheldon.liberman@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40AAD7C0.5020805@sympatico.ca...



Paul Abeles wrote:

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians who

are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists. Those
Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists.

They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.


A surprising number of which were found to have had weapons or

onramps

to tunnels. Go figure...


And how else are they expected to defend themselves from helicopters

tanks

and missiles?


Ironic that the tanks and missiles wouldn't be there if Hamas didn't

send

in

suicide bombers to specifically kill Israeli children.

Now be fair and reasonable.


And I'd ask you to do the same.


This is in Gaza NOT Israel.

I've oft wondered if you're.....you know....'special'. You think they need
the tunnels to fight tanks and helicopters. However they wouldn't need to
fight tanks and helicopters if they weren't sending in suicide bombers,
shooting at funeral processions, killing pregnant women and her kids, and
the other various acts of human right abuses these groups engage in.
I don't care if you criticize israel legitimately. However you don't - you
use faulty logic to come to spurious conclusions.
.
User: "Paul Abeles"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 10:48:59 AM
"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h1bv7F7rgohU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:RLKqc.47789$TT.11679@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h19avF7p02sU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:0vBqc.47002$TT.34170@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Sheldon Liberman" <sheldon.liberman@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40AAD7C0.5020805@sympatico.ca...



Paul Abeles wrote:

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians

who

are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists.

Those

Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not terrorists.

They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.


A surprising number of which were found to have had weapons or

onramps

to tunnels. Go figure...


And how else are they expected to defend themselves from helicopters

tanks

and missiles?


Ironic that the tanks and missiles wouldn't be there if Hamas didn't

send

in

suicide bombers to specifically kill Israeli children.

Now be fair and reasonable.


And I'd ask you to do the same.


This is in Gaza NOT Israel.


I've oft wondered if you're.....you know....'special'. You think they

need

the tunnels to fight tanks and helicopters. However they wouldn't need to
fight tanks and helicopters if they weren't sending in suicide bombers,
shooting at funeral processions, killing pregnant women and her kids, and
the other various acts of human right abuses these groups engage in.

I don't care if you criticize israel legitimately. However you don't -

you

use faulty logic to come to spurious conclusions.

I object to the killing of innocent people per se. You seem to only object
to the killing of Jews, innocent or guilty.
.
User: "Count 1"

Title: Re: When terrorists are not terrorists 19 May 2004 11:08:49 AM
"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:LlLqc.47797$TT.42534@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h1bv7F7rgohU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:RLKqc.47789$TT.11679@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Count 1" <omnipitus2002@yaboob.com> wrote in message
news:2h19avF7p02sU1@uni-berlin.de...


"Paul Abeles" <abeles@bigpond.comnospam> wrote in message
news:0vBqc.47002$TT.34170@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


"Sheldon Liberman" <sheldon.liberman@sympatico.ca> wrote in

message

news:40AAD7C0.5020805@sympatico.ca...



Paul Abeles wrote:

I'm the first to condemn terrorism. However those Palestinians

who

are

being

slaughtered by the almighty IDF in Gaza are not terrorists.

Those

Palestinians who killed IDF soldiers in Gaza are not

terrorists.

They

are

resistance fighters defending their homes.


A surprising number of which were found to have had weapons or

onramps

to tunnels. Go figure...


And how else are they expected to defend themselves from

helicopters

tanks

and missiles?


Ironic that the tanks and missiles wouldn't be there if Hamas didn't

send

in

suicide bombers to specifically kill Israeli children.

Now be fair and reasonable.


And I'd ask you to do the same.


This is in Gaza NOT Israel.


I've oft wondered if you're.....you know....'special'. You think they

need

the tunnels to fight tanks and helicopters. However they wouldn't need

to

fight tanks and helicopters if they weren't sending in suicide bombers,
shooting at funeral processions, killing pregnant women and her kids,

and

the other various acts of human right abuses these groups engage in.

I don't care if you criticize israel legitimately. However you don't -

you

use faulty logic to come to spurious conclusions.


I object to the killing of innocent people per se. You seem to only object
to the killing of Jews, innocent or guilty.

Don't attempt to visit my intentions Mr. Abeles. You have zero information
regarding what I might or might not object to. The sad fact is the
architects of the situation in Rafah right now are Palestinians, and other
arab nations. Not Israel.
.








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