"Nostrobino" <not.here@ultranet.com> wrote in message
news:Of%_c.14514$Y94.4346@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...

"Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mluoj0punh7506f5u0r08oc7dhn3nns429@4ax.com...

From The Associated Press, 9/5/04:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5922174/

Bush's National Guard file incomplete

[ . . . ]

"One of the downfalls back then in the National Guard was that not
everyone wanted to be chief of staff of the Air Force. They just
wanted to fly or maintain airplanes. So the record keeping could have
been better," said retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver Jr., a former head
of the Air National Guard.

He said the documents may not have been kept in the first place.

There's your answer, quoted in your own post. Did you miss it?

Now HOW ABOUT KERRY RELEASING ALL HIS MEDICAL RECORDS?

What if Kerry said his records may not have been kept in the first place?
Would that be enough for you?

"Nostrobino" <not.here@ultranet.com> wrote in message
news:Of%_c.14514$Y94.4346@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...

"Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mluoj0punh7506f5u0r08oc7dhn3nns429@4ax.com...

From The Associated Press, 9/5/04:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5922174/

Bush's National Guard file incomplete

[ . . . ]

"One of the downfalls back then in the National Guard was that not
everyone wanted to be chief of staff of the Air Force. They just
wanted to fly or maintain airplanes. So the record keeping could have
been better," said retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver Jr., a former head
of the Air National Guard.

He said the documents may not have been kept in the first place.

There's your answer, quoted in your own post. Did you miss it?

Now HOW ABOUT KERRY RELEASING ALL HIS MEDICAL RECORDS?

Bush has released everything.

No, he hasn't. The documents were most certainly "kept in the first

question
remains: where are they?

Bush would have kept copies of whatever the National Guard's version of a
DD-214.
Any vet would, unless it embarassed him. Let's see what he's got.

And why should Kerry release his medical records? Why don't you release

Go ahead and post them to a binaries group, if you think they are anyone's
business.

Military records are relevant. Medical records aren't, unless they contain
information
that would render a candidate incapable of performing his duties of

Nostrobino wrote:

"Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mluoj0punh7506f5u0r08oc7dhn3nns429@4ax.com...

From The Associated Press, 9/5/04:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5922174/

Bush's National Guard file incomplete

[ . . . ]

"One of the downfalls back then in the National Guard was that not
everyone wanted to be chief of staff of the Air Force. They just
wanted to fly or maintain airplanes. So the record keeping could have
been better," said retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver Jr., a former head
of the Air National Guard.

He said the documents may not have been kept in the first place.

There's your answer, quoted in your own post. Did you miss it?

Now HOW ABOUT KERRY RELEASING ALL HIS MEDICAL RECORDS?

Bush has released everything.

Kerry has released only a tiny fraction of his AVAILABLE service and

records, more of which would give details on a number of interesting

including his first "wound"--you know, the self-inflicted one, the

one?

COME ON, KERRY!

LET'S SEE THE RECORDS!

Go to his web site, stupid *****.

They're all there.

--
"Ignorance is an evil weed, which dictators may cultivate among their
dupes, but which no democracy can afford among its citizens."
- William H. Beveridge, 1944

Nostrobino wrote:

"Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mluoj0punh7506f5u0r08oc7dhn3nns429@4ax.com...

From The Associated Press, 9/5/04:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5922174/

Bush's National Guard file incomplete

[ . . . ]

"One of the downfalls back then in the National Guard was that not
everyone wanted to be chief of staff of the Air Force. They just
wanted to fly or maintain airplanes. So the record keeping could have
been better," said retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver Jr., a former head
of the Air National Guard.

He said the documents may not have been kept in the first place.

There's your answer, quoted in your own post. Did you miss it?

Now HOW ABOUT KERRY RELEASING ALL HIS MEDICAL RECORDS?

Bush has released everything.

Kerry has released only a tiny fraction of his AVAILABLE service and

records, more of which would give details on a number of interesting

including his first "wound"--you know, the self-inflicted one, the

one?

COME ON, KERRY!

LET'S SEE THE RECORDS!

Go to his web site, stupid *****.

They're all there.

Nostrobino wrote:

"Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mluoj0punh7506f5u0r08oc7dhn3nns429@4ax.com...

From The Associated Press, 9/5/04:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5922174/

Bush's National Guard file incomplete

[ . . . ]

"One of the downfalls back then in the National Guard was that not
everyone wanted to be chief of staff of the Air Force. They just
wanted to fly or maintain airplanes. So the record keeping could have
been better," said retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver Jr., a former head
of the Air National Guard.

He said the documents may not have been kept in the first place.

There's your answer, quoted in your own post. Did you miss it?

Now HOW ABOUT KERRY RELEASING ALL HIS MEDICAL RECORDS?

Bush has released everything.

Another lying rightard.

Outside experts suggest that National Guard commanders may not have
produced documentation required by their own regulations.

``One of the downfalls back then in the National Guard was that not
everyone wanted to be chief of staff of the Air Force. They just wanted
to fly or maintain airplanes. So the record keeping could have been
better,'' said retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver Jr., a former head of
the Air National Guard. He said the documents may not have been kept in
the first place.
The AP talked to experts unaffiliated with either campaign who have
reviewed Bush's files for missing documents. They said it was not
unusual for guard commanders to ignore deficiencies by junior officers
such as Bush. But they said missing a physical exam, which caused him to
be grounded, was not common.
Commanders did have broad
discretion to allow guardsmen to make up for missed training sessions,
said Weaver and Lawrence Korb, Pentagon personnel chief during the
Reagan administration from 1981 to 1985.

``If you missed it, you could make it up,'' said Korb, who now works for
the Center for American Progress, which supports Kerry.

Bush's National Guard File Missing Records

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Documents that should have been written to explain
gaps in President Bush's Texas Air National Guard service are missing
from the military records released about his service in 1972 and 1973,
according to regulations and outside experts.

For example, Air National Guard regulations at the time required
commanders to write an investigative report for the Air Force when Bush
missed his annual medical exam in 1972. The regulations also required
commanders to confirm in writing that Bush received counseling after
missing five months of drills.

No such records have been made public and the government told The
Associated Press in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit
that it has released all records it can find.

Outside experts suggest that National Guard commanders may not have
produced documentation required by their own regulations.

``One of the downfalls back then in the National Guard was that not
everyone wanted to be chief of staff of the Air Force. They just wanted
to fly or maintain airplanes. So the record keeping could have been
better,'' said retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver Jr., a former head of
the Air National Guard. He said the documents may not have been kept in
the first place.

Challenging the government's declaration that no more documents exist,
the AP identified five categories of records that should have been
generated after Bush skipped his pilot's physical and missed five months
of training.

``Each of these actions by any member of the National Guard should have
generated the creation of many documents that have yet to be produced,''
AP lawyer David Schulz wrote the Justice Department Aug. 26.

White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said there were no other documents
to explain discrepancies in Bush's files.

Military service during the Vietnam War has become an issue in the
presidential election as both candidates debate the current wars in Iraq
and Afghanistan.

Democrat John Kerry commanded a Navy Swift boat in Vietnam and was
awarded five medals, including a Silver Star. But his heroism has been
challenged in ads by some veterans who support Bush.

The president served stateside in the Air National Guard during Vietnam.
Democrats have accused him of shirking his Guard service and getting
favored treatment as the son of a prominent Washington figure.

The AP talked to experts unaffiliated with either campaign who have
reviewed Bush's files for missing documents. They said it was not
unusual for guard commanders to ignore deficiencies by junior officers
such as Bush. But they said missing a physical exam, which caused him to
be grounded, was not common.

``It's sort of like a code of honor that you didn't go DNF (duty not
including flying),'' said retired Air Force Col. Leonard Walls, who flew
181 combat missions over Vietnam. ``There was a lot of pride in keeping
combat-ready status.''

Bush has said he fulfilled all his obligations. He was in the Texas Air
National Guard from 1968 to 1973 and was trained to fly F-102 fighters.

``I'm proud of my service,'' Bush told a rally last weekend in Lima, Ohio.

Records of Bush's service have significant gaps, starting in 1972. Bush
has said he left Texas that year to work on the unsuccessful Senate
campaign in Alabama of family friend Winton Blount.

The five kinds of missing files are:

--A report from the Texas Air National Guard to Bush's local draft board
certifying that Bush remained in good standing. The government has
released copies of those DD Form 44 documents for Bush for 1971 and
earlier years but not for 1972 or 1973. Records from Bush's draft board
in Houston do not show his draft status changed after he joined the
guard in 1968. The AP obtained the draft board records Aug. 27 under the
Freedom of Information Act.

--Records of a required investigation into why Bush lost flight status.
When Bush skipped his 1972 physical, regulations required his Texas
commanders to ``direct an investigation as to why the individual failed
to accomplish the medical examination,'' according to the Air Force
manual at the time. An investigative report was supposed to be forwarded
``with the command recommendation'' to Air Force officials ``for final
determination.''

Bush's spokesmen have said he skipped the exam because he knew he would
be doing desk duty in Alabama. But Bush was required to take the
physical by the end of July 1972, more than a month before he won final
approval to train in Alabama.

--A written acknowledgment from Bush that he had received the orders
grounding him. His Texas commanders were ordered to have Bush sign such
a document; but none has been released.

--Reports of formal counseling sessions Bush was required to have after
missing more than three training sessions. Bush missed at least five
months' worth of National Guard training in 1972. No documents have
surfaced indicating Bush was counseled or had written authorization to
skip that training or make it up later. Commanders did have broad
discretion to allow guardsmen to make up for missed training sessions,
said Weaver and Lawrence Korb, Pentagon personnel chief during the
Reagan administration from 1981 to 1985.

``If you missed it, you could make it up,'' said Korb, who now works for
the Center for American Progress, which supports Kerry.

--A signed statement from Bush acknowledging he could be called to
active duty if he did not promptly transfer to another guard unit after
leaving Texas. The statement was required as part of a Vietnam-era
crackdown on no-show guardsmen. Bush was approved in September 1972 to
train with the Alabama unit, more than four months after he left Texas.

Bush was approved to train in September, October and November 1972 with
the Alabama Air National Guard's 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group.
The only record tying Bush to that unit is a dental exam at the group's
Montgomery base in January 1973. No records have been released giving
Bush permission to train with the 187th after November 1972.

Walls, the Air Force combat veteran, was assigned to the 187th in 1972
and 1973 to train its pilots to fly the F-4 Phantom. Walls and more than
a dozen other members of the 187th say they never saw Bush. One member
of the unit, retired Lt. Col. John Calhoun, has said he remembers Bush
showing up for training with the 187th.

Pay records show Bush was credited for training in January, April and
May 1973; other files indicate that service was outside Texas.

A May 1973 yearly evaluation from Bush's Texas unit gives the future
president no ratings and stated Bush had not been seen at the Texas base
since April 1972. In a directive from June 29, 1973, an Air Force
personnel official pressed Bush's unit for information about his Alabama
service.

``This officer should have been reassigned in May 1972,'' wrote Master
Sgt. Daniel P. Harkness, ``since he no longer is training in his AFSC
(Air Force Service Category, or job title) or with his unit of

Then-Maj. Rufus G. Martin replied Nov. 12, 1973: ``Not rated for the
period 1 May 72 through 30 Apr 73. Report for this period not available
for administrative reasons.''

By then, Texas Air National Guard officials had approved Bush's request
to leave the guard to attend Harvard Business School; his last days of
duty were in July 1973.



--
"Ignorance is an evil weed, which dictators may cultivate among their
dupes, but which no democracy can afford among its citizens."
- William H. Beveridge, 1944