Nese Duzel, of the center-left, liberal Turkish daily Radikal, interviewed
Turkish professor, former Turkish intelligence officer, and newspaper
columnist Mahir Kaynak [1] on the subject of Al-Qaeda's global terrorism.
[2] Kaynak claimed that the U.S. government was behind both 9/11 and the
assassination of president John F. Kennedy. The interview was also quoted at
length by columnists from other Turkish newspapers.
The following are excerpts from the interview:
There is No Al-Qaeda; It's a Code Name for a CIA Operation
Nese Duzel:"The world lives in an Al-Qaeda panic [.] What does someone
[involved in] intelligence [likeyou] think about an organization that is
present everywhere, yet cannot be seen or found anywhere?"
Mahir Kaynak: "[I would think] that there is no such organization."
Duzel:"So, isn't there an organization called Al-Qaeda? Are others carrying
out the terrorism, while we all look for a non-existent organization?"
Kaynak: "There is no such organization as Al-Qaeda. When you talk about a
[terrorist] organization, it should have political goals. There is no answer
to the question of what the goals of Al-Qaeda are. Nobody knows what it
wants to achieve. Whereas terrorist organizations like the IRA and ETA all
have concrete goals and well-defined geographic areas. Al-Qaeda has none of
these. No staff and no geographic area. The whole world is their
battleground."
Duzel: "It is said that Al-Qaeda wants to establish a Taliban-style regime
in the Islamic world. Don't you think this is Al-Qaeda's goal?"
Kaynak: "The goals must be in line with the means. You cannot take a pin and
attempt to kill someone with it. Al-Qaeda cannot establish its preferred
regime in the Islamic world by its own strength. It does not have the means,
the numbers, or the supporters. The reality is that there is no such
organization called Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda is the code name of an operation
[undertaken] by an intelligence service. This is why we must first decipher
this operation. There is an attempt to create some political consequences
through this 'Al-Qaeda operation.'"
Duzel: "What political consequences are being created by Al-Qaeda
terrorism?"
Kaynak: "The only results achieved by Al-Qaeda are the birth of anti-Islamic
[sentiment] in the West and the identification of Islam with terrorism. We
must find the answers to the questions of 'why is this result being sought?'
and 'who wants this?' Al-Qaeda's actions are changing the balances in the
world. It would be foolish to think that a small organization is [re]shaping
the entire world. This is a large operation. One that first and foremost
creates an anti-Islamic front of all the nations of the world."
Duzel:"What will be gained by the formation of an anti-Islamic front?"
Kaynak: "Today, there are two approaches to how the new world order should
be built. One is the approach of the global capital. The other is the
approach of Bush's America and Putin's Russia. The global capital adopts
Huntington's 'Clash of Civilizations' thesis. It divides the world into
Western civilization and those that remain outside of it, and wishes the
'new world balance [of power] to be built between the West and the others.'
The second approach aims at reaching the [same] balance that existed in the
past, with America on one side and Russia on the other. The current clashes
in the world are about which way to choose to reach such balance [of power].
It seems that Bush's America and Putin's Russia are in agreement. Against
them is the power of the global capital. Presently, there are no other
powers with any political goals. The global capital has its own idea on how
to govern the world."
Duzel: "What is that?"
Kaynak: "The global capital has a 'moderate Islam' policy. This is the
policy of eliminating Islam's incompatibility with capitalism [.]. Global
capital says, 'We will integrate Islam into the Western system and its
markets and in so doing we will solve the problem.' Al-Qaeda, on the other
hand, targets something very different [from the global capital]. It says,
'Let the Muslims become the enemy, the other.' The anti-Islamic front which
is formed as a result of Al-Qaeda actions does not differentiate between
moderate and radical. It sees all Muslims as terrorists. For an Islamic
power center to create such results makes no sense. It is a Western power
center that is doing all this. They are doing this in order to eliminate
both the global capitalists' 'moderate Islam' model and political Islam."
Duzel: "Why would America want to destroy a 'moderate Islam' that does not
clash with capitalism?"
Kaynak: "Because the global capital is [already] well organized within
Islam. [.] Currently, there is a unity between the Saudi wealth and the
global capital. America wants to destroy this. Otherwise, why would America
want to change the Saudi regime, that was once deemed closer to the U.S.
than any of its own states? Recently someone close to the Bush
administration complained that a rich Arab had withdrawn his investments
from the U.S. and directed them to Turkey, keeping the Turkish economy
robust."
Duzel: "What is Turkey's place in this conflict?"
Kaynak: "Today, Turkey is one of the most important countries with its model
of 'moderate Islam.' The [Turkish] government is not on good terms with
America. Prime Minister Erdogan has complained that 'they are pushing
buttons.' The Bush and Putin administrations want to eliminate the global
capital thesis for moderate Islam. They [Bush and Putin] say that there can
be no moderate Islam. 'Islam is one and all radical. You [the Muslims] will
either become secular or you will disappear.' They want to stop Islam from
being political. The conclusion is that the current clash is not between a
man in the cave [i.e. bin Laden] and the world. The clash is between the
global capital and Bush's America. Al-Qaeda is carrying out all the
provocations on behalf of the side of Bush and Putin, to destroy the model
of moderate Islam."
Duzel:"What do you mean by 'global capital?"
Kaynak: "Global capital does not run any corporation, industry and does not
own them, but rather owns and uses the money. These people in the financial
sector make use of funds that are not limited to their own wealth. [.] The
global capital commands trillions of dollars and is as powerful as
nation-states. They are not tied to any geography; the whole world is their
place. If America fell, that would not disturb them either."
Duzel: "Is [George] Soros one of them?"
Kaynak: "Soros, Rothschild, [and] Rockefeller are representatives of the
global capital. They have power that exceeds that of governments. The
American and Russian governments are trying to eliminate the political power
of the global capital. Al-Qaeda is [a tool] being used against this global
capital and against Islam. But some continue to say that 'there is a man
called Osama bin Laden in a cave in Afghanistan and he is fighting a war
against the world.'"
The CIA is Carrying Out the 'Al-Qaeda' Operations. Terrorism is Carried Out
by Governments. CIA Operatives Were Sent on Suicide Missions to Hit Their
Own Twin Towers
Duzel: "Even if Al-Qaeda is the code name of an operation, there still is an
organization that carries out the operation. How can there be an
organization so strong that all the intelligence services of the world keep
searching without success? In a way, it looks stronger than all of the
intelligence agencies put together."
Kaynak: "The CIA carries out the Al-Qaeda operation, and the Putin
administration knows about it. It may even be a partner to the operation.
The intelligence services of other countries understand it, [but] it is not
easy to do anything against America. Anyway, in operations conducted by
states the truth does not emerge. [For example,] there is almost no doubt
that Kennedy was assassinated by the state, but the evidence is never
revealed. In this case, the men America uses are given the name 'Al-Qaeda.'
For a certain act they select a few men and they carry out the action. They
are not part of any organization, but just men that the CIA uses. This is
terror that is committed by governments. They send these [men] on suicide
missions. They hit their own Twin Towers. Such decisions are made by
American policy makers. Bush may not even be aware. The CIA is an executive
organ within the scope of a much greater power."
Duzel: "Did the CIA kill their fellow [U.S.] citizens by striking at the
Twin Towers?"
Kaynak: "Why wouldn't the CIA carry out the [events of] September 11? What
if they had told you that the alternative would be war? [That] had they not
done this, they would have fought a war that would kill a million people?
"There were similar calculations during World War Two. There was a fight for
the takeover of some areas, and it resulted in the deaths of 50 million
people. Currently, the world is in a low-cost war. As parties to this war,
we are shown Al-Qaeda on one side and the world on the other side. If you
accepted this [as a fact], you would be totally irrational."
Duzel: "How so?"
Kaynak: "At the present time, results are being created that are similar to
those at the end of World War [Two]. There is no way one can accept that
[all] this is being accomplished by a handful of militants. [They say] that
there is this power that, with its actions, is reshaping the world - but
nobody is betraying the organization, no amount of reward money is helping,
no information is being leaked. Why? Because there is no such organization
called Al-Qaeda.
"According to the project, a few Muslims are used in the operations. They
already knew such men, whom they had trained in Afghanistan and Pakistan
against the Soviets. [.] These people are [usually] killed in action. All
precautions are taken to prevent the leaking of information. The militant,
for example, may not even know that he is a militant. You attract him to the
secret service, then give him a bag to deliver. You blow up the bag by
remote control. Here you've got a suicide bomber. You can ask a truck driver
to transport milk and blow up [the truck] when it is on its way."
Secret Services Must Be Hiding bin Laden
Duzel:"Al-Qaeda has a ghost leader, just like the organization itself. He
too cannot be seen or found. Can anyone being sought the way he is hide for
such a long time without powerful support?"
Kaynak: "No, he cannot possibly hide. It must be secret services that are
hiding him."
Duzel:"It is Al-Qaeda that linked Islam with terrorism. Thanks to Al-Qaeda,
in the West the word 'Muslim' is associated with terrorism. Muslims are
being persecuted everywhere. What could be Al-Qaeda's goal in linking Islam
with terrorism like this?"
Kaynak: "Islam's political character is bound to be lost once it is
associated with terrorism. The aim is to identify Islam with terrorism and
thus disqualify Islam as an ideology or a political movement. If you want to
kill a political thought, first you empty it of any ideal, and then you turn
it into activism alone. This is how the Left was eliminated in Turkey. They
first emptied the Left of thought, and then turned the Leftists' profile
into one of 'armed activists.' It happened with the Kurdish movement too. It
started as a movement of classes, then became terrorist. Today, the West is
using the same method with Islam. The deep [i.e. covert] American government
is eliminating political Islam."
Duzel: "Why do they want to get rid of 'political Islam'?"
Kaynak: "Political Islam was taking the place of the Left [in combating
capitalism and imperialism]. Even in Western societies, the oppressed people
had started seeing Islam as a religion of salvation. Now they are emptying
Islam of its content, [and] at the same time they are ending the hegemony of
the global capital in the Islamic countries. This is the battle of
nation-states against the global capital. Global capital was opposed to the
'states' and was about to become more powerful than the 'states'. [.]
[Nation-]states are trying to gain control over the global capital, which is
a by-product of capitalism. The globalization mechanisms are being destroyed
by Al-Qaeda's actions. The truth is that the rise of Islam in the world did
not happen as a result of the dynamics within Islam itself. Had it not been
for [the U.S.'s] Green Belt project [3] - a policy to contain the Soviet
Union - we would not now be seeing so many people [Muslims] praying [five
times a day]. But now that they [i.e. the Americans] realize how powerful
the global capital has become within the Green Belt countries and political
Islam, they want to get rid of both."
Duzel: "We [Turkey] have the additional problem of PKK terrorism. PKK is now
adopting some bloody tactics from which they had refrained in the past. They
are attacking civilian targets in [Turkey's] western regions. Why are they
doing this?"
Kaynak: "It is no [longer] clear who PKK is. It is divided. Which part of it
is carrying out the terrorism, or whether it really is PKK, are very
questionable [issues]. PKK is in a fight with Iran and Syria. It is declared
a 'terrorist' [organization] by both America and Europe. It does not get
along with Barzani or Talabani. Would such an organization ever say, 'This
many enemies are not enough for me. Let me also bring in the Turkish
military forces so that I can be totally crushed?' It is some other powers
that want to get rid of the PKK that are carrying out some acts of terrorism
and attributing this to PKK. For example, if I were Barzani, I would have
done something like this to get rid of the PKK problem. Because of these
acts of terror, if we [Turkey] drive all those that are in Turkey into Iraq,
they'd be left hungry and penniless, and since they would be isolated and
have no political support anymore, they would be obliged to go under
Barzani's command. The [best] way to eliminate an organization is not by
using arms, but by buying them off. They want to destroy the PKK now, and
the current plan is to get them under Barzani's control. This is what they
are doing. Members of the PKK will become paid soldiers."
[1] Professor Mahir Kaynak taught economics for many years, first at
Istanbul University and then at Gazi University, and also served for 10
years as an officer in the Turkish intelligence agency MIT (Milli Istihbarat
Teskilati). Prof. Kaynak is also a columnist for the centrist, mainstream
Turkish daily STAR Gazete.
[2] Radikal (Turkey), August 1, 2005.
[3] In Turkish public opinion and the Turkish media, the Green Belt project
is known as a U.S. Cold War-era policy designed to contain the USSR with the
surrounding Islamic states. This policy is believed to have been in effect
from the 1950s through the 1980s, when the U.S. supported Islamic
governments and nurtured anti-Communist Islamist sentiment in Muslim
countries such as Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Later, some Arab
countries, including Iraq and Saudi Arabia, became part of this "belt."
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Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
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