antisocial personality disorder
Antisocial personality disorder (APD) is a personality disorder which is
often characterised by antisocial and impulsive behaviour. APD is
generally (if controversially) considered to be the same as, or similar
to, the disorder that was previously known as psychopathic or sociopathic
personality disorder. Approximately 3% of men and 1% of women have some
form of antisocial personality disorder (source: DSM-IV).
Although criminal activity is not a necessary requirement for the
diagnosis, these individuals often encounter legal difficulties due to
their disregard for societal standards and the rights of others.
Therefore, many of these individuals can be found in prisons. However, it
should be noted that criminal activity does not automatically warrant a
diagnosis of APD, nor does a diagnosis of APD imply that a person is a
criminal. It is hypothesized that many high achievers exhibit APD
characteristics. This, however, brings much criticism upon the diagnostic
criteria specified for those exhibiting Antisocial Personality Disorder
and the PCL-R. Both of these tests depend upon the person in question
being a criminal or having participated in criminal activities.
Research has shown that individuals with APD are indifferent to the
possibility of physical pain or many punishments, and show no indications
that they experience fear when so threatened; this may explain their
apparent disregard for the consequences of their actions, and their lack
of empathy when others are suffering.
The recent, controversial science of sociobiology attempts to explain
animal and human behavior and social structures, largely in terms of
evolutionarily stable strategies. For example, in one well-known 1995
paper by Linda Mealey, chronic antisocial/criminal behavior is explained
as a combination of two such strategies.
Diagnostic criteria (DSM-IV-TR)
The DSM-IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders (see
also: DSM cautionary statement), defines anti-social personality disorder
as a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of
others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of
the following:
1.. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors
as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
2.. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or
conning others for personal profit or pleasure
3.. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
4.. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical
fights or assaults
5.. reckless disregard for safety of self or others
6.. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to
sustain steady work or honor financial obligations
7.. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or
rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another
The manual lists the following additional necessary criteria:
a.. The individual is at least age 18 years.
b.. There is evidence of Conduct Disorder with onset before age 15
years.
c.. The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the
course of Schizophrenia or a Manic Episode.
Criticism of the DSM-IV criteria
The DSM-IV confound: some argue that an important differential has been
lost by including both sociopathy and psychopathy together under APD. As
Hare et al write in their abstract, "The Axis II Work Group of the Task
Force on DSM-IV has expressed concern that antisocial personality disorder
(APD) criteria are too long and cumbersome and that they focus on
antisocial behaviors rather than personality traits central to traditional
conceptions", concluding, "... conceptual and empirical arguments exist
for evaluating alternative approaches to the assessment of psychopathy ..
our hope is that the information presented here will stimulate further
research on the comparative validity of diagnostic criteria for
psychopathy; although too late to influence DSM-IV".
http://www.psych.utoronto.ca/~peterson/psy430s2001/Hare%20RD%20Psychopathy%20JAP%201991.pdf
Diagnostic criteria (PCL-R test)
In contemporary research and clinical practice, APD is most commonly
assessed with the Hare Psychopathy Checklist- Revised (PCL-R), which is a
clinical rating scale with 20 items. Each of the items in the PCL-R is
scored on a three-point scale according to specific criteria through file
information and a semi-structured interview. The items are as follows:
Interpersonal dimension
a.. Glibness/superficial charm
b.. Grandiose sense of self-worth
c.. Pathological lying
d.. Conning/manipulative
e.. Lack of remorse or guilt
f.. Shallow affect
g.. Callous/lack of empathy
h.. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Affective dimension
a.. Need for stimulation/-proneness to boredom
b.. Parasitic lifestyle
c.. Poor behavioral controls
d.. Early behavioral problems
e.. Lack of realistic, long-term goals
f.. Impulsivity
g.. Irresponsibility
h.. Juvenile delinquency
i.. Revocation of conditional release
Behavioral dimension
a.. Promiscuous sexual behavior
b.. Many short-term marital relationships
c.. Criminal versatility
Score 0 if the trait is absent, 1 if it is possibly or partially present
and 2 if it is present. The item scores are summed to yield a total score
ranging from 0 to 40 which is then considered to reflect the degree to
which they resemble the prototypical psychopath. A score higher than 30
supports a diagnosis of psychopathy. Forensic studies of prison
populations have reported average scores of around 22 on PCL-R; control
"normal" populations show an average score of around 5.
A note of caution: the test must be administered by a trained mental
health practitioner under controlled conditions for it to have any
validity.
Fictional sociopaths
a.. Uchiha Itachi (Naruto, "Itachi the Killer")
b.. Eric Cartman (South Park)
c.. Hannibal Lecter (Red Dragon, The Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal)
d.. Alex DeLarge (A Clockwork Orange)
e.. Kazuo Kiriyama (Battle Royale)
f.. Mickey and Mallory Knox (Natural Born Killers)
g.. Patrick Bateman (American Psycho)
h.. Zé Pequeno (Cidade de Deus)
i.. Begbie (Trainspotting)
j.. "The Caller" (Phone Booth)
k.. Kevin (Sin City)
l.. Frederick Clegg (The Collector)
m.. Aaron Stampler (Primal Fear)
n.. Charles Anthony Bruno (Strangers on a Train)
o.. Rhoda Penmark (The Bad Seed)
p.. Chad (In the Company of Men)
q.. Don Logan (Sexy Beast)
r.. Mr. Gone (The Maxx)
s.. The Punisher/Frank Castle (Some versions) (Marvel Comics)
t.. Lieutenant Loren Singer (JAG)
u.. Tom Ripley (The Talented Mr. Ripley)
v.. Jason Dean (Heathers)
w.. Hud Bannon (Hud)
x.. Bridget Gregory (The Last Seduction)
y.. Annie Wilkes (Stephen King's Misery)
z.. Catherine Tramell (Paul Verhoeven's Basic Instinct)
aa.. Kane (WWE)
ab.. Achilles de Flandres (Ender's Shadow)
ac.. Foolkiller (Marvel Comics)
ad.. Lisa (Girl,_Interrupted)
Famous sociopaths
Note: sociopaths make up about 2% of the total population; few of them
show the same infamous behaviors as the following.
a.. John Wayne Gacy
b.. Charles Sobhraj
c.. Charles Manson
d.. Ted Bundy
e.. Jeffrey Dahmer
f.. David Berkowitz
g.. Fred West
Examples of sociopaths in television
Sociopaths in popular fiction and movies generally possess a number of
standard characteristics which are not necessarily as common amongst
real-life Sociopaths. The traditional "Hollywood sociopath" is likely to
exhibit some or all of the following traits which make them ideal
villains.
a.. High intelligence, and a preference for intellectual stimulation
(music, fine art etc.)
b.. A somewhat vain, stylish, almost "cat-like" demeanor
c.. Prestige, or a successful career or position
d.. A calm, calculating and always-in-control attitude
It is this last feature which is probably most at odds with the typical
real-life psychopath: an individual with APD is much more likely to be
impulsive, disorganised and short-tempered rather than the smooth-talking,
self-disciplined character portrayed by Anthony Hopkins or Kiefer
Sutherland.
In popular culture, "sociopath" is often used interchangeably with "serial
killer" (such as the characters in slasher films) though the terms are not
synonymous. It is, however, true that most serial killers are also
sociopaths.
Corporate Psychopathy
The Corporation, a documentary exploring the psyche of the corporation,
came to the conclusion that if the corporation can be regarded as a
person, rather than a legal entity, as it is under United States law, its
personality would meet all of the DSM-IV requirements for being a
sociopath (such as conning others for profit and recklessness).
http://www.answers.com/topic/antisocial-personality-disorder
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| User: "Su Zanadu" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
21 Jul 2005 08:56:34 AM |
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Um.....Doc?
Isn't this the second time you posted this? Maybe it was someone
else.....I dunno.
Anyway....so what's up?
WHO ya pointing the finger at? :)
Give me the heads up because I'm not too good at analizing some of the
people in this group.
Way TOO MUCH BS to sort thru! :P
gotta go! will check back tonight.
SuZanne
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| User: "Doc" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
22 Jul 2005 12:15:20 AM |
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"Su Zanadu" <tugbertswife@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:12392-42DFA992-268@storefull-3213.bay.webtv.net...
Um.....Doc?
Isn't this the second time you posted this? Maybe it was someone
else.....I dunno.
Anyway....so what's up?
WHO ya pointing the finger at? :)
Give me the heads up because I'm not too good at analizing some of the
people in this group.
Way TOO MUCH BS to sort thru! :P
gotta go! will check back tonight.
SuZanne
No, Sue, I'm not pointing a finger at anyone...well, except, maybe...
Doc
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| User: "Su Zanadu" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
22 Jul 2005 06:26:18 AM |
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Doc wrote:
No, Sue, I'm not pointing a finger at
anyone...well, except, maybe... Doc
Not bold enough to say it? I can't blame you there! Nobody in their
right mind wants to tick off an APD! (psssT! email it to me secretly!
I'LL NEVER TELLLLLL!) ;)
SuZanne
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| User: "Doc" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
23 Jul 2005 11:28:21 PM |
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"Su Zanadu" <tugbertswife@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:581-42E0D7DA-352@storefull-3217.bay.webtv.net...
Doc wrote:
No, Sue, I'm not pointing a finger at
anyone...well, except, maybe... Doc
Not bold enough to say it? I can't blame you there! Nobody in their
right mind wants to tick off an APD! (psssT! email it to me secretly!
I'LL NEVER TELLLLLL!) ;)
SuZanne
Uh, huh...I know one individual that is a candidate but he's *left* the
group. Clue:
you emailed me his photo.
Doc ;)
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
24 Jul 2005 03:17:32 AM |
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"Uh, huh...I know one individual that is a candidate but he's *left*
the
group."
I'm about at times.
Your prognosois is accurate.
Werewolfy
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| User: "Doc" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
24 Jul 2005 07:15:48 AM |
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"Werewolfy" <thegrimreaper10@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1122193052.791359.131760@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
"Uh, huh...I know one individual that is a candidate but he's *left*
the
group."
I'm about at times.
Your prognosois is accurate.
Werewolfy
If you want to include yourself, that's up to you. But, I didn't mean you
at all. It's a guy who we all know, was here from the very beginning and
seemingly left the group. I feel he is still here, though. And I don't
have a photo of you. Sue sent me a photo of him, which I am trusting her
that the photo is actually who she said it was. He has(d) a very long mane
of dark hair (clue).
Doc
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| User: "Su Zanadu" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
24 Jul 2005 09:58:56 PM |
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Doc wrote:
If you want to include yourself, that's up
to you. But, I didn't mean you at all. It's
a guy who we all know, was here from
the very beginning and seemingly left
the group. I feel he is still here, though.
You think he is here? You mean "here" as in posting or just lurking?
And I don't have a photo of you. Sue
sent me a photo of him, which I am
trusting her that the photo is actually
who she said it was.
Jean posted that himself here in apn. He was very proud of that picture.
I believe Ricky has a copy himself. Doesn't everybody? ;)
He has(d) a very long mane of dark hair
(clue).
Doc
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
24 Jul 2005 08:22:40 AM |
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Doc explained:-
" ...you want to include yourself, that's up to you..."
Ahhh. Thank you Doctor.
I was still thinking about my score of 29 first time around with that
post! It does seem rather 'close to home' though. I blame my work.
There isn't too much difference between the chaser, and the chased
really. Not if you are any good at it anyway.
I have the....identity now.. Thanks.
Ricky
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| User: "Su Zanadu" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
24 Jul 2005 11:07:25 AM |
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Not YOU Ricky!
He's talking about the photo that Jean posted here in apn. A driver
license photo.
I would never divulge a photo or personal info that was given to me with
anybody else. I thought you knew me better than that.
SuZanne
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
25 Jul 2005 12:20:17 AM |
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"I would never divulge a photo or personal info that was given to me
with
anybody else. I thought you knew me better than that"...Susan.
I do Suz, I do...;)
Actually Sugar, whatever you do is alright by me. I came to both admire
and respect you, and your judgement) coupled with your 'down to Earth'
approach, a long time ago.
I like that feeling. It's unashamed friendship...;)
Now for that...horrid day (wed).
Hugs...Ricky
Ps. The rest of you shut up....;) Suz is a very good friend, and that
is exactly what we are to one-another.
Werewolfy
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| User: "O:--:" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
21 Jul 2005 11:37:49 AM |
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This all sounds like the behavior of my guard raven!
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| User: "Doc" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
22 Jul 2005 12:17:19 AM |
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"O:-)(-:<" <tadapope@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1121963869.020238.312150@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
This all sounds like the behavior of my guard raven!
Could be some mold in the seed.
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
21 Jul 2005 03:15:11 AM |
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a.. John Wayne Gacy
b.. Charles Sobhraj
c.. Charles Manson
d.. Ted Bundy
e.. Jeffrey Dahmer
f.. David Berkowitz
g.. Fred West
I grew up with Fred West Doc. Knew him quite well. We hated each other.
I could tell you quite a lot about him!
I saw Fred a little before he killed himself. He was out-going, and
just complained about being questioned on the same subject. When asked.
"How many have you killed?" Fred just threw a temper fit, and said, "I
don't bloody know. How the Hell do you expect me to know how how many
it was, loads"
I did a programme for BBC after Rose's conviction. Managed a nice fee
and a free week-end back to London, all expenses paid.
Fred wasn't 'creepy' at all. He was popular amongst like-minded
criminals with whom he associated. Worked hard and lived for sex. Loved
to fight in the street and loathed the Police.
My mother had a bed-sit in his infamous house in Cromwell road in the
early '70's..just when he was filling the cellar with bodies! I used to
call around then, but Fred would go crazy if he saw me, so I didn't
visit too often.
I know why now!
Incidently, Too much empasis on Fred has always been given by the
press. Rosie West was the most evil woman I have ever known. She was
more than just an accomplice, she was the driving force behind him.
Ricky
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| User: "Doc" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
22 Jul 2005 12:14:25 AM |
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"Werewolfy" <thegrimreaper10@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1121933711.246985.39420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
a.. John Wayne Gacy
b.. Charles Sobhraj
c.. Charles Manson
d.. Ted Bundy
e.. Jeffrey Dahmer
f.. David Berkowitz
g.. Fred West
I grew up with Fred West Doc. Knew him quite well. We hated each other.
I could tell you quite a lot about him!
I saw Fred a little before he killed himself. He was out-going, and
just complained about being questioned on the same subject. When asked.
"How many have you killed?" Fred just threw a temper fit, and said, "I
don't bloody know. How the Hell do you expect me to know how how many
it was, loads"
I did a programme for BBC after Rose's conviction. Managed a nice fee
and a free week-end back to London, all expenses paid.
Fred wasn't 'creepy' at all. He was popular amongst like-minded
criminals with whom he associated. Worked hard and lived for sex. Loved
to fight in the street and loathed the Police.
My mother had a bed-sit in his infamous house in Cromwell road in the
early '70's..just when he was filling the cellar with bodies! I used to
call around then, but Fred would go crazy if he saw me, so I didn't
visit too often.
I know why now!
Incidently, Too much empasis on Fred has always been given by the
press. Rosie West was the most evil woman I have ever known. She was
more than just an accomplice, she was the driving force behind him.
Ricky
That's fascinating. "Thanks for sharing." IMO, we're attracted to the
murderer because we all have had murderous thoughts, at least, sometime in
our lives. It might've been only for a second or two, but nonethless we've
all experienced the intense feeling of hating and/or fearing someone so
much that getting rid of them, in creative ways sometimes, is tossed
around like some crazy salad in the dark corners of our minds.
Truly curious and chilling--both serial killers and this species.
Doc
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| User: "MonsieurStat" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
22 Jul 2005 08:33:15 PM |
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"Doc" <bushelsofbushrot@HellsHereNow.com> wrote in message
news:dbpvbn0r9d@enews2.newsguy.com...
"Werewolfy" <thegrimreaper10@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1121933711.246985.39420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
a.. John Wayne Gacy
b.. Charles Sobhraj
c.. Charles Manson
d.. Ted Bundy
e.. Jeffrey Dahmer
f.. David Berkowitz
g.. Fred West
I grew up with Fred West Doc. Knew him quite well. We hated each other.
I could tell you quite a lot about him!
I saw Fred a little before he killed himself. He was out-going, and
just complained about being questioned on the same subject. When asked.
"How many have you killed?" Fred just threw a temper fit, and said, "I
don't bloody know. How the Hell do you expect me to know how how many
it was, loads"
I did a programme for BBC after Rose's conviction. Managed a nice fee
and a free week-end back to London, all expenses paid.
Fred wasn't 'creepy' at all. He was popular amongst like-minded
criminals with whom he associated. Worked hard and lived for sex. Loved
to fight in the street and loathed the Police.
My mother had a bed-sit in his infamous house in Cromwell road in the
early '70's..just when he was filling the cellar with bodies! I used to
call around then, but Fred would go crazy if he saw me, so I didn't
visit too often.
I know why now!
Incidently, Too much empasis on Fred has always been given by the
press. Rosie West was the most evil woman I have ever known. She was
more than just an accomplice, she was the driving force behind him.
Ricky
That's fascinating. "Thanks for sharing." IMO, we're attracted to the
murderer because we all have had murderous thoughts, at least, sometime in
our lives. It might've been only for a second or two, but nonethless we've
all experienced the intense feeling of hating and/or fearing someone so
much that getting rid of them, in creative ways sometimes, is tossed
around like some crazy salad in the dark corners of our minds.
Truly curious and chilling--both serial killers and this species.
I get one of those about couple times a week driving to work.
(I take the train the other days).
Stat.
Doc
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
22 Jul 2005 09:45:08 PM |
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"MonsieurStat" <monsieurstat@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:u7hEe.11458$je2.1130988@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Doc" <bushelsofbushrot@HellsHereNow.com> wrote in message
news:dbpvbn0r9d@enews2.newsguy.com...
"Werewolfy" <thegrimreaper10@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1121933711.246985.39420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
a.. John Wayne Gacy
b.. Charles Sobhraj
c.. Charles Manson
d.. Ted Bundy
e.. Jeffrey Dahmer
f.. David Berkowitz
g.. Fred West
I grew up with Fred West Doc. Knew him quite well. We hated each other.
I could tell you quite a lot about him!
I saw Fred a little before he killed himself. He was out-going, and
just complained about being questioned on the same subject. When asked.
"How many have you killed?" Fred just threw a temper fit, and said, "I
don't bloody know. How the Hell do you expect me to know how how many
it was, loads"
I did a programme for BBC after Rose's conviction. Managed a nice fee
and a free week-end back to London, all expenses paid.
Fred wasn't 'creepy' at all. He was popular amongst like-minded
criminals with whom he associated. Worked hard and lived for sex. Loved
to fight in the street and loathed the Police.
My mother had a bed-sit in his infamous house in Cromwell road in the
early '70's..just when he was filling the cellar with bodies! I used to
call around then, but Fred would go crazy if he saw me, so I didn't
visit too often.
I know why now!
Incidently, Too much empasis on Fred has always been given by the
press. Rosie West was the most evil woman I have ever known. She was
more than just an accomplice, she was the driving force behind him.
Ricky
That's fascinating. "Thanks for sharing." IMO, we're attracted to the
murderer because we all have had murderous thoughts, at least, sometime
in
our lives. It might've been only for a second or two, but nonethless
we've
all experienced the intense feeling of hating and/or fearing someone so
much that getting rid of them, in creative ways sometimes, is tossed
around like some crazy salad in the dark corners of our minds.
Truly curious and chilling--both serial killers and this species.
I get one of those about couple times a week driving to work.
(I take the train the other days).
Stat.
Don't wear any heavy coats on the train til October, Stat.
.
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| User: "MonsieurStat" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
22 Jul 2005 10:23:13 PM |
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" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote in message
news:E8ednfAzpaIkMnzfRVn-hg@locallink.net...
"MonsieurStat" <monsieurstat@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:u7hEe.11458$je2.1130988@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Doc" <bushelsofbushrot@HellsHereNow.com> wrote in message
news:dbpvbn0r9d@enews2.newsguy.com...
"Werewolfy" <thegrimreaper10@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1121933711.246985.39420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
a.. John Wayne Gacy
b.. Charles Sobhraj
c.. Charles Manson
d.. Ted Bundy
e.. Jeffrey Dahmer
f.. David Berkowitz
g.. Fred West
I grew up with Fred West Doc. Knew him quite well. We hated each
other.
I could tell you quite a lot about him!
I saw Fred a little before he killed himself. He was out-going, and
just complained about being questioned on the same subject. When
asked.
"How many have you killed?" Fred just threw a temper fit, and said, "I
don't bloody know. How the Hell do you expect me to know how how many
it was, loads"
I did a programme for BBC after Rose's conviction. Managed a nice fee
and a free week-end back to London, all expenses paid.
Fred wasn't 'creepy' at all. He was popular amongst like-minded
criminals with whom he associated. Worked hard and lived for sex.
Loved
to fight in the street and loathed the Police.
My mother had a bed-sit in his infamous house in Cromwell road in the
early '70's..just when he was filling the cellar with bodies! I used
to
call around then, but Fred would go crazy if he saw me, so I didn't
visit too often.
I know why now!
Incidently, Too much empasis on Fred has always been given by the
press. Rosie West was the most evil woman I have ever known. She was
more than just an accomplice, she was the driving force behind him.
Ricky
That's fascinating. "Thanks for sharing." IMO, we're attracted to the
murderer because we all have had murderous thoughts, at least, sometime
in
our lives. It might've been only for a second or two, but nonethless
we've
all experienced the intense feeling of hating and/or fearing someone so
much that getting rid of them, in creative ways sometimes, is tossed
around like some crazy salad in the dark corners of our minds.
Truly curious and chilling--both serial killers and this species.
I get one of those about couple times a week driving to work.
(I take the train the other days).
Stat.
Don't wear any heavy coats on the train til October, Stat.
LOL
Good advice John. Thanks :-)
I'll ask the wife to check my clothes for any loose strings that might look
like wires before going out too.
Stat.
.
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| User: "Su Zanadu" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
22 Jul 2005 06:21:39 AM |
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Doc wrote:
IMO, we're attracted to the murderer
because we all have had murderous
thoughts, at least, sometime in our
lives.
You have?
I NEVER have!
Yes, I have thoughts about slapping somebody but getting rid of them?
WELL - I NEVER! :)
SuZanne
It might've been only for a second
or two, but nonethless we've all
experienced the intense feeling of hating
and/or fearing someone so much that
getting rid of them, in creative ways
sometimes, is tossed around like some
crazy salad in the dark corners of our
minds.
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| User: "Doc" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
23 Jul 2005 11:26:11 PM |
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"Su Zanadu" <tugbertswife@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:581-42E0D6C3-351@storefull-3217.bay.webtv.net...
Doc wrote:
IMO, we're attracted to the murderer
because we all have had murderous
thoughts, at least, sometime in our
lives.
You have?
I NEVER have!
Yes, I have thoughts about slapping somebody but getting rid of them?
WELL - I NEVER! :)
SuZanne
Well, you oughta' try it sometime. You don't know what you're missing.
Doc ;)
It might've been only for a second
or two, but nonethless we've all
experienced the intense feeling of hating
and/or fearing someone so much that
getting rid of them, in creative ways
sometimes, is tossed around like some
crazy salad in the dark corners of our
minds.
.
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| User: "dreamwalker" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
21 Jul 2005 07:22:11 AM |
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"Werewolfy" <thegrimreaper10@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1121933711.246985.39420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
a.. John Wayne Gacy
b.. Charles Sobhraj
c.. Charles Manson
d.. Ted Bundy
e.. Jeffrey Dahmer
f.. David Berkowitz
g.. Fred West
I grew up with Fred West Doc. Knew him quite well. We hated each other.
I could tell you quite a lot about him!
I saw Fred a little before he killed himself. He was out-going, and
just complained about being questioned on the same subject. When asked.
"How many have you killed?" Fred just threw a temper fit, and said, "I
don't bloody know. How the Hell do you expect me to know how how many
it was, loads"
I did a programme for BBC after Rose's conviction. Managed a nice fee
and a free week-end back to London, all expenses paid.
Fred wasn't 'creepy' at all. He was popular amongst like-minded
criminals with whom he associated. Worked hard and lived for sex. Loved
to fight in the street and loathed the Police.
My mother had a bed-sit in his infamous house in Cromwell road in the
early '70's..just when he was filling the cellar with bodies! I used to
call around then, but Fred would go crazy if he saw me, so I didn't
visit too often.
I know why now!
Incidently, Too much empasis on Fred has always been given by the
press. Rosie West was the most evil woman I have ever known. She was
more than just an accomplice, she was the driving force behind him.
Ricky
Nope, serial killers. Whole different breed.
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| User: "Jane" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
21 Jul 2005 03:54:44 AM |
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"Werewolfy" <thegrimreaper10@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1121933711.246985.39420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
a.. John Wayne Gacy
b.. Charles Sobhraj
c.. Charles Manson
d.. Ted Bundy
e.. Jeffrey Dahmer
f.. David Berkowitz
g.. Fred West
I grew up with Fred West Doc. Knew him quite well. We hated each other.
I could tell you quite a lot about him!
I saw Fred a little before he killed himself. He was out-going, and
just complained about being questioned on the same subject. When asked.
"How many have you killed?" Fred just threw a temper fit, and said, "I
don't bloody know. How the Hell do you expect me to know how how many
it was, loads"
I did a programme for BBC after Rose's conviction. Managed a nice fee
and a free week-end back to London, all expenses paid.
Fred wasn't 'creepy' at all. He was popular amongst like-minded
criminals with whom he associated. Worked hard and lived for sex. Loved
to fight in the street and loathed the Police.
My mother had a bed-sit in his infamous house in Cromwell road in the
early '70's..just when he was filling the cellar with bodies! I used to
call around then, but Fred would go crazy if he saw me, so I didn't
visit too often.
I know why now!
Incidently, Too much empasis on Fred has always been given by the
press. Rosie West was the most evil woman I have ever known. She was
more than just an accomplice, she was the driving force behind him.
I've read a couple books about them and I got the impression that Rose was,
as you say, the driving force. Much like our own Karla Homolka (who just
got out of jail) was the force behind Paul Bernardo. He raped women, but
never murdered anyone until he hooked up with her. She was the one who
stole knock-out drugs from the vet clinic where she worked and had her folks
over for dinner while there was a body in the cold cellar. People have a
hard time seeing the evil in women...
Anyway, it is fascinating that you knew them.
Jane
Ricky
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
21 Jul 2005 04:52:29 PM |
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"Anyway, it is fascinating that you knew them"
Gloucester's infamous past Jane!
He was a couple of years older than me, but we crossed paths a fair
bit. There is quite a few things books don't mention..and it's best
that I don't say a lot as well.
Some mistakes were made along the way with various investigations. Oh,
nothing specific..but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I shouldn't really have posted that message though. It's history now,
and there are certain matters best described as 'not in the public
interest'. Seeing his name printed out brought back a lot of memories.
Werewolfy
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| User: "Jane" |
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| Title: Re: APD: Who possibly suffers from it in this NG? (Another poll?) |
21 Jul 2005 05:23:08 PM |
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"Werewolfy" <thegrimreaper10@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1121982749.019678.182710@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
"Anyway, it is fascinating that you knew them"
Gloucester's infamous past Jane!
He was a couple of years older than me, but we crossed paths a fair
bit. There is quite a few things books don't mention..and it's best
that I don't say a lot as well.
Some mistakes were made along the way with various investigations. Oh,
nothing specific..but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
That is always the case. the Bernardo/Homolka case was thoroughly botched,
too. That is how Karla ended up with a deal that got her out of jail in 12
years whilst videos of her abusing the victims were already in the hands of
her husband's lawyer.
I shouldn't really have posted that message though. It's history now,
and there are certain matters best described as 'not in the public
interest'. Seeing his name printed out brought back a lot of memories.
I wouldn't worry about it. I admit to a lurid interest in serial killers,
so I had to respond. The book titled "Happy Like Murderers" was one that
really put Rose in a bad light.
Jane
Werewolfy
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