Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0%2C5478%2C15694331%25255E1702%2C00.html
Pastor prefers jail over apology
By Mariza Fiamengo
22jun05
A CHRISTIAN pastor who has been ordered to apologise for vilifying
Muslims says he will go to jail rather than say sorry for his
comments.
Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) deputy president
Michael Higgins ordered two pastors of an evangelical order, Catch the
Fire Ministry, to apologise for comments they made in a speech, on a
website and in a newsletter.
In a landmark ruling, the tribunal found Muslims were vilified by
claims that Muslims were training to take over Australia, encouraging
domestic violence and that Islam was an inherently violent religion.
The case was the first to be heard by VCAT since the Racial and
Religious Tolerance Act took effect in Victoria at the start of 2002.
Outside the tribunal, Danny Nalliah – one of the pastors taken to VCAT
by the Islamic Council – described himself as a martyr and said he
would go to jail before apologising.
"Right from the inception, we have said that this law is a foul law,
this law is not a law which brings unity," Pastor Nalliah said.
"It causes disunity and as far as we are concerned right from the
beginning we have stated we will not apologise.
"We will go to prison for standing for the truth and not sacrifice our
freedom and freedom to speak."
He said the Evangelical group had nothing against Muslims and its
comments were taken out of context.
Judge Higgins said an apology was "appropriate" as the intention of
the Victorian legislation was to protect freedom of speech, while
placing limits on such freedom by prohibiting the vilification of
persons or classes of persons.
He said he took into account that the pastors were of good character,
but their passionate religious beliefs caused them to transgress the
law.
Catch the Fire is appealing the VCAT decision in the Victorian Supreme
Court.
.
|
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| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
22 Jun 2005 04:42:21 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
Woods
.
|
|
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| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
22 Jun 2005 06:13:43 PM |
|
|
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
?
Jane
Woods
.
|
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| User: "Aidan" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
22 Jun 2005 09:16:16 PM |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Hgmue.10598$X57.448482@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
?
We don't have free speech 'protected' by a constitution... we have laws that
limit our freedom of expression in certain matters, like racial and
religious hate speech (as is the case here). I've never run into a problem,
but if I were to try to publish a book about how Balinese Hindu's are aiming
to take over the world, or give a speech saying that Tibetan Buddhists are
violent maniacs, I could be charged under these laws.
.
|
|
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| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 03:49:13 AM |
|
|
"Aidan" <nospam.aweraw@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$a7qiii$q71$1@titan.linknet.com.au...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Hgmue.10598$X57.448482@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
?
We don't have free speech 'protected' by a constitution... we have laws
that limit our freedom of expression in certain matters, like racial and
religious hate speech (as is the case here). I've never run into a
problem, but if I were to try to publish a book about how Balinese Hindu's
are aiming to take over the world, or give a speech saying that Tibetan
Buddhists are violent maniacs, I could be charged under these laws.
OK, so it is like Canada, then. We also have hate laws where you can be
charged for fomenting hate. Ernst Zundel was charged under those laws.
Usually the law here is reserved for the most rabid of hatemongers.
Jane
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
22 Jun 2005 09:59:00 PM |
|
|
Aidan wrote:
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Hgmue.10598$X57.448482@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
?
We don't have free speech 'protected' by a constitution... we have laws that
limit our freedom of expression in certain matters, like racial and
religious hate speech (as is the case here). I've never run into a problem,
but if I were to try to publish a book about how Balinese Hindu's are aiming
to take over the world, or give a speech saying that Tibetan Buddhists are
violent maniacs, I could be charged under these laws.
You can't publish a book on pressure canning, either.
Woods
.
|
|
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| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 03:49:52 AM |
|
|
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:Uzpue.35157$fp6.32228@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Aidan wrote:
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Hgmue.10598$X57.448482@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
?
We don't have free speech 'protected' by a constitution... we have laws
that limit our freedom of expression in certain matters, like racial and
religious hate speech (as is the case here). I've never run into a
problem, but if I were to try to publish a book about how Balinese
Hindu's are aiming to take over the world, or give a speech saying that
Tibetan Buddhists are violent maniacs, I could be charged under these
laws.
You can't publish a book on pressure canning, either.
Now why is that?
Jane
Woods
.
|
|
|
| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 07:21:21 AM |
|
|
Jane wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:Uzpue.35157$fp6.32228@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Aidan wrote:
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Hgmue.10598$X57.448482@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
?
We don't have free speech 'protected' by a constitution... we have laws
that limit our freedom of expression in certain matters, like racial and
religious hate speech (as is the case here). I've never run into a
problem, but if I were to try to publish a book about how Balinese
Hindu's are aiming to take over the world, or give a speech saying that
Tibetan Buddhists are violent maniacs, I could be charged under these
laws.
You can't publish a book on pressure canning, either.
Now why is that?
I'm not certain, but presumably, the Australian government feels that
there is sufficient risk in pressure canning to not want pressure
canners produced, sold, or recipes produced. I did a check on Google
groups for rec.food.preserving and couldn't find that info - although I
seem to recall that they used to discuss the reason they couldn't get
pressure canners, or books on pressure canning, because the govt
wouldn't allow it. Being the resourceful sorts they are, they were
hearing about it and ordering stuff from the US and Canada, and getting
info from US and Canadian sites. (Evidently pressure canning isn't done
in Great Britain, either .... not sure why).
Woods
Jane
Woods
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 05:11:55 PM |
|
|
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:5Pxue.35178$fp6.18493@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Jane wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:Uzpue.35157$fp6.32228@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Aidan wrote:
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Hgmue.10598$X57.448482@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
?
We don't have free speech 'protected' by a constitution... we have laws
that limit our freedom of expression in certain matters, like racial and
religious hate speech (as is the case here). I've never run into a
problem, but if I were to try to publish a book about how Balinese
Hindu's are aiming to take over the world, or give a speech saying that
Tibetan Buddhists are violent maniacs, I could be charged under these
laws.
You can't publish a book on pressure canning, either.
Now why is that?
I'm not certain, but presumably, the Australian government feels that
there is sufficient risk in pressure canning to not want pressure canners
produced, sold, or recipes produced. I did a check on Google groups for
rec.food.preserving and couldn't find that info - although I seem to
recall that they used to discuss the reason they couldn't get pressure
canners, or books on pressure canning, because the govt wouldn't allow it.
Being the resourceful sorts they are, they were hearing about it and
ordering stuff from the US and Canada, and getting info from US and
Canadian sites. (Evidently pressure canning isn't done in Great Britain,
either .... not sure why).
Thanks...Interesting info., if a bit odd! I have a good friend in Florida
who lived in Australia for many years while married to an Aussie. I guess
we just never discussed free speech, as I had no idea they were so strict.
Jane
Woods
Jane
Woods
.
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| User: "WH" |
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| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 05:45:46 AM |
|
|
Jane wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
Free speech is one thing and they have that in Australia...incitement
to hatred and/or violence is another thing and they have laws against
that in Australia. Unfortunately in yankieland they don't have the
latter and that's why foxnews and the nut site can continue to spread
their racist version of events and their hatred! People like dimwanker,
pantyboy, macdonald and that other idiot with the pgp in the beginning
of every post, (yeah now I remember...Min), thrive because of this.
They have nothing else to fall back on...that's why people in the more
advanced countries, Europe, Australia, New Zealand etc. have a more
humane view of the planet and of their brothers and sisters! We have to
think for ourselves...we don't just sit and believe in one side or the
other.
WH
.
|
|
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| User: "Grantland" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 06:04:34 AM |
|
|
"WH" <bollogs@hotmail.com> intoned the PC like a ROBOT:
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
Free speech is one thing and they have that in Australia...incitement
to hatred and/or violence is another thing and they have laws against
that in Australia. Unfortunately in yankieland they don't have the
latter and that's why foxnews and the nut site can continue to spread
their racist version of events and their hatred! People like dimwanker,
pantyboy, macdonald and that other idiot with the pgp in the beginning
of every post, (yeah now I remember...Min), thrive because of this.
They have nothing else to fall back on...that's why people in the more
advanced countries, Europe, Australia, New Zealand etc. have a more
humane view of the planet and of their brothers and sisters! We have to
think for ourselves...we don't just sit and believe in one side or the
other.
WH
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 09:42:12 AM |
|
|
Chris The Gay Muslim Convert & IRA Mmeber wrote:
Jane wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
Free speech is one thing and they have that in Australia..
Wrong!
Tony
.
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|
|
|
| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 07:26:45 AM |
|
|
WH wrote:
Jane wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
Free speech is one thing and they have that in Australia...incitement
to hatred and/or violence is another thing and they have laws against
that in Australia. Unfortunately in yankieland they don't have the
latter and that's why foxnews and the nut site can continue to spread
their racist version of events and their hatred! People like dimwanker,
pantyboy, macdonald and that other idiot with the pgp in the beginning
of every post, (yeah now I remember...Min), thrive because of this.
They have nothing else to fall back on...that's why people in the more
advanced countries, Europe, Australia, New Zealand etc. have a more
humane view of the planet and of their brothers and sisters! We have to
think for ourselves...we don't just sit and believe in one side or the
other.
Where do you draw the link between free speech and "incitement to hatred
and/or violence" if it is not the act of calling for a specific violent
act? I should think that most political speeches these days would fall
into that category.
Woods
WH
.
|
|
|
|
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| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
22 Jun 2005 09:53:10 PM |
|
|
Jane wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
?
Jane
They have what we would call a censorship board, which approves or
disapproves items for publication in hard copy as well as internet sites.
(You can see http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/cens1.html - I'm sure
there are other sites, I'm not spending a whole lot of time looking).
Also, they are not allowed to publish books on pressure canning. I
can't comment on other areas related to speech, but I know that internet
sites and publications on matters considered perfectly okay in Canada
and the US are verbotten there.
Woods
Woods
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 03:52:09 AM |
|
|
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:qupue.35153$fp6.6831@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Jane wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
?
Jane
They have what we would call a censorship board, which approves or
disapproves items for publication in hard copy as well as internet sites.
(You can see http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/cens1.html - I'm sure
there are other sites, I'm not spending a whole lot of time looking).
Also, they are not allowed to publish books on pressure canning. I can't
comment on other areas related to speech, but I know that internet sites
and publications on matters considered perfectly okay in Canada and the US
are verbotten there.
Wow! Like I was saying to Aidan, we do have "hate" laws in Canada, but they
are reserved for the most vile hatemongers (like Ernst Zundel). Having said
that, I actually believe we should have free speech without conditions, but
the law as it stands does allow for free exchange of most ideas, so I don't
get too worked up about it.
Jane
Woods
Woods
.
|
|
|
| User: "MonsieurStat" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
25 Jun 2005 07:03:02 PM |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_Kuue.74469$Kk4.870978@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:qupue.35153$fp6.6831@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Jane wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
?
Jane
They have what we would call a censorship board, which approves or
disapproves items for publication in hard copy as well as internet sites.
(You can see http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/cens1.html - I'm sure
there are other sites, I'm not spending a whole lot of time looking).
Also, they are not allowed to publish books on pressure canning. I can't
comment on other areas related to speech, but I know that internet sites
and publications on matters considered perfectly okay in Canada and the
US are verbotten there.
Wow! Like I was saying to Aidan, we do have "hate" laws in Canada, but
they are reserved for the most vile hatemongers (like Ernst Zundel).
Having said that, I actually believe we should have free speech without
conditions, but the law as it stands does allow for free exchange of most
ideas, so I don't get too worked up about it.
In Canada, as long as you love Zionists, you can hate everybody else. It's
even encouraged!
Stat.
Jane
Woods
Woods
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
25 Jun 2005 08:53:41 PM |
|
|
"MonsieurStat" <monsieurstat@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ugmve.80931$Kk4.1369121@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_Kuue.74469$Kk4.870978@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:qupue.35153$fp6.6831@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Jane wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
?
Jane
They have what we would call a censorship board, which approves or
disapproves items for publication in hard copy as well as internet
sites.
(You can see http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/cens1.html - I'm sure
there are other sites, I'm not spending a whole lot of time looking).
Also, they are not allowed to publish books on pressure canning. I
can't comment on other areas related to speech, but I know that internet
sites and publications on matters considered perfectly okay in Canada
and the US are verbotten there.
Wow! Like I was saying to Aidan, we do have "hate" laws in Canada, but
they are reserved for the most vile hatemongers (like Ernst Zundel).
Having said that, I actually believe we should have free speech without
conditions, but the law as it stands does allow for free exchange of most
ideas, so I don't get too worked up about it.
In Canada, as long as you love Zionists, you can hate everybody else. It's
even encouraged!
*****, and you know it! Hopefully, you are in troll mode again!
Jane
Stat.
Jane
Woods
Woods
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Charly the Bastard" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
24 Jun 2005 07:31:44 AM |
|
|
Jane wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:qupue.35153$fp6.6831@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Jane wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
?
Jane
They have what we would call a censorship board, which approves or
disapproves items for publication in hard copy as well as internet sites.
(You can see http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/cens1.html - I'm sure
there are other sites, I'm not spending a whole lot of time looking).
Also, they are not allowed to publish books on pressure canning. I can't
comment on other areas related to speech, but I know that internet sites
and publications on matters considered perfectly okay in Canada and the US
are verbotten there.
Wow! Like I was saying to Aidan, we do have "hate" laws in Canada, but they
are reserved for the most vile hatemongers (like Ernst Zundel). Having said
that, I actually believe we should have free speech without conditions, but
the law as it stands does allow for free exchange of most ideas, so I don't
get too worked up about it.
Jane
Woods
Woods
First, they came for the Gypsies, but I didn't know any Gypsies, so I said
nothing.
Next, they came for the Catholics, but I wasn't Catholic, so I said nothing.
Next, they came for the Jews, none of my family was Jewish, so I said nothing.
Finally, they came for me, and there was no one left to say anything.
If you don't use a freedom, you lose that freedom.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
24 Jun 2005 04:45:11 PM |
|
|
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:42BBFD2D.4DFA49C4@worldnet.att.net...
Jane wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:qupue.35153$fp6.6831@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Jane wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
?
Jane
They have what we would call a censorship board, which approves or
disapproves items for publication in hard copy as well as internet
sites.
(You can see http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/cens1.html - I'm sure
there are other sites, I'm not spending a whole lot of time looking).
Also, they are not allowed to publish books on pressure canning. I
can't
comment on other areas related to speech, but I know that internet
sites
and publications on matters considered perfectly okay in Canada and the
US
are verbotten there.
Wow! Like I was saying to Aidan, we do have "hate" laws in Canada, but
they
are reserved for the most vile hatemongers (like Ernst Zundel). Having
said
that, I actually believe we should have free speech without conditions,
but
the law as it stands does allow for free exchange of most ideas, so I
don't
get too worked up about it.
Jane
Woods
Woods
First, they came for the Gypsies, but I didn't know any Gypsies, so I
said
nothing.
Next, they came for the Catholics, but I wasn't Catholic, so I said
nothing.
Next, they came for the Jews, none of my family was Jewish, so I said
nothing.
Finally, they came for me, and there was no one left to say anything.
If you don't use a freedom, you lose that freedom.
Good point.
Jane
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Aidan" |
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| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
22 Jun 2005 09:02:47 PM |
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"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
To an extent, that is true... but that is not to say that we can't express
ourselves.
The reson this pastor is being castigated, is because he vilified muslims
and Islam in general both in this sermons and in distributed print. He
claims that what he said were purely theological critisisms, but to claim
that "Muslims [are] training to take over Australia" is a pretty dangerous
thing to say, especially in todays post-911 anti-muslim hysteria.
While I don't completely agree with these racial and religious vilification
laws (I believe society is best served when ideas can be exchanged freely,
and people learn from those exchanges), I do feel that this was an abuse of
a position of power on the part of the pastor.
In any event, these laws are double edge sword, and as usual Tony missed
that fact... these laws prevent Imams from vilifying Christians in their
Mosques, the same way they are being used to stop these Pastors vilifying
Muslims in their Churches... it cuts both ways.
The man was spreading falsehoods, and causing pointless confrontation
between muslims and christians, and this is why he has been taken to court
over the matter. Really, what he was saying amounts to nothing more than
hate speech.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
22 Jun 2005 10:02:41 PM |
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Aidan wrote:
The reson this pastor is being castigated, is because he vilified muslims
and Islam in general both in this sermons and in distributed print. He
claims that what he said were purely theological critisisms, but to claim
that "Muslims [are] training to take over Australia" is a pretty dangerous
thing to say, especially in todays post-911 anti-muslim hysteria.
From BBC
Friday, 11 April, 2003
Australia outlaws Islamic groups
[excerpt] Under Australia's tough new anti-terrorism laws, anyone
joining a banned group or assisting in its activities can be sentenced
to up to 25 years in prison.
"The listing of these groups as terrorist organisations will serve to
deter Australians from becoming involved in their activities," said
Attorney-General Daryl Williams.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2938449.stm
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| User: "Aidan" |
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| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 12:43:26 AM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119494399.484897.308240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Aidan wrote:
The reson this pastor is being castigated, is because he vilified muslims
and Islam in general both in this sermons and in distributed print. He
claims that what he said were purely theological critisisms, but to claim
that "Muslims [are] training to take over Australia" is a pretty
dangerous
thing to say, especially in todays post-911 anti-muslim hysteria.
From BBC
Friday, 11 April, 2003
Australia outlaws Islamic groups
[excerpt] Under Australia's tough new anti-terrorism laws, anyone
joining a banned group or assisting in its activities can be sentenced
to up to 25 years in prison.
"The listing of these groups as terrorist organisations will serve to
deter Australians from becoming involved in their activities," said
Attorney-General Daryl Williams.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2938449.stm
Not surprising... these are certainly criminal organisations.
What I did not know, is that there is an 'Islamic Army of Aden'... not quite
spelt the same, but it sounds like my name... now I'll have to look up what
it means. Cheers.
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| User: "Aidan" |
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| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 12:48:12 AM |
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"Aidan" <nospam.aweraw@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$lsziii$1c1$1@titan.linknet.com.au...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119494399.484897.308240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Aidan wrote:
The reson this pastor is being castigated, is because he vilified
muslims
and Islam in general both in this sermons and in distributed print. He
claims that what he said were purely theological critisisms, but to
claim
that "Muslims [are] training to take over Australia" is a pretty
dangerous
thing to say, especially in todays post-911 anti-muslim hysteria.
From BBC
Friday, 11 April, 2003
Australia outlaws Islamic groups
[excerpt] Under Australia's tough new anti-terrorism laws, anyone
joining a banned group or assisting in its activities can be sentenced
to up to 25 years in prison.
"The listing of these groups as terrorist organisations will serve to
deter Australians from becoming involved in their activities," said
Attorney-General Daryl Williams.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2938449.stm
Not surprising... these are certainly criminal organisations.
What I did not know, is that there is an 'Islamic Army of Aden'... not
quite spelt the same, but it sounds like my name... now I'll have to look
up what it means. Cheers.
Hmm, a city.... not as interesting as I first thought.
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 06:35:10 AM |
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"Aidan" <nospam.aweraw@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$j00jii$4c1$1@titan.linknet.com.au...
"Aidan" <nospam.aweraw@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$lsziii$1c1$1@titan.linknet.com.au...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119494399.484897.308240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Aidan wrote:
The reson this pastor is being castigated, is because he vilified
muslims
and Islam in general both in this sermons and in distributed print.
He
claims that what he said were purely theological critisisms, but to
claim
that "Muslims [are] training to take over Australia" is a pretty
dangerous
thing to say, especially in todays post-911 anti-muslim hysteria.
From BBC
Friday, 11 April, 2003
Australia outlaws Islamic groups
[excerpt] Under Australia's tough new anti-terrorism laws, anyone
joining a banned group or assisting in its activities can be sentenced
to up to 25 years in prison.
"The listing of these groups as terrorist organisations will serve to
deter Australians from becoming involved in their activities," said
Attorney-General Daryl Williams.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2938449.stm
Not surprising... these are certainly criminal organisations.
What I did not know, is that there is an 'Islamic Army of Aden'... not
quite spelt the same, but it sounds like my name... now I'll have to
look
up what it means. Cheers.
Hmm, a city.... not as interesting as I first thought.
Well, a state in the Red Sea, actually (the capital is called "Crater" I
believe, whichis nice). Used to be a British protectorate then we withdrew
from the whole mess in 1967something (though we DID try and keep the natives
from massacaring each other in the ensuing power vacuum for a while, because
we can be nice like that when we want to). Friend of mine's late father
spent a bit of time there shooting at the fuzzy-wuzzies as part of his
national service. Hated it.
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Aden/index.html
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
22 Jun 2005 09:58:29 PM |
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Aidan wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
To an extent, that is true... but that is not to say that we can't express
ourselves.
True enough, but it depends on what you want to express, does it not?
The reson this pastor is being castigated, is because he vilified muslims
and Islam in general both in this sermons and in distributed print. He
claims that what he said were purely theological critisisms, but to claim
that "Muslims [are] training to take over Australia" is a pretty dangerous
thing to say, especially in todays post-911 anti-muslim hysteria.
While I don't completely agree with these racial and religious vilification
laws (I believe society is best served when ideas can be exchanged freely,
and people learn from those exchanges), I do feel that this was an abuse of
a position of power on the part of the pastor.
Yes, I agree. However, since he fell short of inciting anyone to commit
violent acts against them, in the United States his would be considered
strictly an opinion, to which he was entitled.
In any event, these laws are double edge sword, and as usual Tony missed
that fact... these laws prevent Imams from vilifying Christians in their
Mosques, the same way they are being used to stop these Pastors vilifying
Muslims in their Churches... it cuts both ways.
Very true.
The man was spreading falsehoods, and causing pointless confrontation
between muslims and christians, and this is why he has been taken to court
over the matter. Really, what he was saying amounts to nothing more than
hate speech.
It could be classified as such, possibly, but it really depends.
Obviously, if he was telling baldfaced lies, that's one thing, if he has
some reason to believe his statements to be true (even if it's due to
paranoia) that's another thing.
His statements would have been protected in the United States,
regardless of how tasteless/hateful or whether it was an abuse of his
position. I don't think Tony fully appreciates the freedoms that he's
willing to have Bush and Cheney get rid of in the name of "safety".
Woods
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| User: "Aidan" |
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| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 12:24:40 AM |
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"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:pzpue.35156$fp6.8838@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Aidan wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
To an extent, that is true... but that is not to say that we can't
express ourselves.
True enough, but it depends on what you want to express, does it not?
Well, we're still allowed to express our displeasure with the government...
for the moment at least. Most of these expression limiting laws set out a
fairly specific framework as to what they limit, and what they do not...
still, it does somewhat limit the free exchange of ideas, which is a bad
thing in the long run.
The reson this pastor is being castigated, is because he vilified muslims
and Islam in general both in this sermons and in distributed print. He
claims that what he said were purely theological critisisms, but to claim
that "Muslims [are] training to take over Australia" is a pretty
dangerous thing to say, especially in todays post-911 anti-muslim
hysteria.
While I don't completely agree with these racial and religious
vilification laws (I believe society is best served when ideas can be
exchanged freely, and people learn from those exchanges), I do feel that
this was an abuse of a position of power on the part of the pastor.
Yes, I agree. However, since he fell short of inciting anyone to commit
violent acts against them, in the United States his would be considered
strictly an opinion, to which he was entitled.
Yes, he's certainly entitled to that opinion, but given his position in the
community, his opinions will hold more weight for some people than say, big
bird, were he to stand in the street and preach the same things. People who
hold positions of power need to be very careful about what they say to those
who look to them for guidance... and in that respect, I don't think it's
right for him to have dropped his own (arguably incitive) pre-conceptions
onto those who trust and respect him.
In any event, these laws are double edge sword, and as usual Tony missed
that fact... these laws prevent Imams from vilifying Christians in their
Mosques, the same way they are being used to stop these Pastors vilifying
Muslims in their Churches... it cuts both ways.
Very true.
The man was spreading falsehoods, and causing pointless confrontation
between muslims and christians, and this is why he has been taken to
court over the matter. Really, what he was saying amounts to nothing
more than hate speech.
It could be classified as such, possibly, but it really depends.
Obviously, if he was telling baldfaced lies, that's one thing, if he has
some reason to believe his statements to be true (even if it's due to
paranoia) that's another thing.
His statements would have been protected in the United States, regardless
of how tasteless/hateful or whether it was an abuse of his position.
Well, I have no doubt that he believes what he's saying is true. The thing
about this is, as I understand it from watch the news coverage, he's being
charged because his opinions have resulted in Christian/Muslim
confrontations. No violent confrontations as yet, but after hearing some
audio of one of these confrontations yesterday on the radio, it's clear who
the aggressors were: the Christians. One Christian woman was hurling
insults about camels and burkas (couldn't quite get the gist), and a Muslim
man replying to her by saying, "We are all Australians. I do not deride
your lifestyle, and I would appreciate the same courtesy from you". Most
other reports I've read or heard, point to similar exchanges.
I don't think Tony fully appreciates the freedoms that he's willing to
have Bush and Cheney get rid of in the name of "safety".
I certainly can't argue there. ;-)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 09:45:31 AM |
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Aiden wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
To an extent, that is true... but that is not to say that we can't express
ourselves.
Wrong!
The reson this pastor is being castigated, is because he vilified muslims
and Islam in general both in this sermons and in distributed print. He
claims that what he said were purely theological critisisms, but to claim
that "Muslims [are] training to take over Australia" is a pretty dangerous
thing to say, especially in todays post-911 anti-muslim hysteria.
The truth is dangerous?
In any event, these laws are double edge sword, and as usual Tony missed
that fact... these laws prevent Imams from vilifying Christians in their
Mosques,
Wrong! Who's in the Mosques translating the Arabic? No one.
The man was spreading falsehoods, and causing pointless confrontation
between muslims and christians,
When your cities are being bombed by Muslim terrorists, maybe you'll
change your mind.
Tony
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| User: "Aidan" |
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| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 06:51:06 PM |
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<TheSilver@Bullet.com> wrote in message
news:1119537916.ef2d63219c7d734ad3c917b0fce91fe4@teranews...
Aiden wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:1Xkue.49020$g5.46826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
To an extent, that is true... but that is not to say that we can't express
ourselves.
Wrong!
Oh, great answer! Actually, I can say pretty much what ever I want. I
can't, however, spread hate and intolerance unchecked. I can say I don't
approve of Christians harassing people of other religions, but I can't say
that all Christians are trouble makers and need to be "dealt with".
That's pretty much what this guy did.
The reson this pastor is being castigated, is because he vilified muslims
and Islam in general both in this sermons and in distributed print. He
claims that what he said were purely theological critisisms, but to claim
that "Muslims [are] training to take over Australia" is a pretty dangerous
thing to say, especially in todays post-911 anti-muslim hysteria.
The truth is dangerous?
Oh yeah sure Tony... you know the truth, I bet.
Are you trying to say that approximately 1.5% of the entire population that
are Muslims are all planning to take over the country, and force their way
of life on everyone else? HAH! Assuming that everyone single one of the
1.5% of Australia that are Muslim are planning to take over the country, how
do you think the other 98.5% would react?
More likely, (and even this is a stretch) 1/5 (of 1.5%) at most would feel
that way... they face incredible opposition from within their own ranks.
The funny thing about this is, that there are a few Christians who would
like to force Islam out of Australia, and they out number that 1.5% of the
population that are Muslim, I guarantee it.... so it's they who are
"planning to take over the country, and force their way of life on everyone
else". Lucky for everyone, the majority seems more sane over here, and the
evangelicals don't hold quite so much power as they do in the US at the
moment.
In any event, these laws are double edge sword, and as usual Tony missed
that fact... these laws prevent Imams from vilifying Christians in their
Mosques,
Wrong! Who's in the Mosques translating the Arabic? No one.
Translators funnily enough... many services are done in both Arabic and
English. Not all Muslims speak Arabic, after all. (ridiculous
generalisations are your forte, aren't they?)
The man was spreading falsehoods, and causing pointless confrontation
between muslims and christians,
When your cities are being bombed by Muslim terrorists, maybe you'll
change your mind.
When (and if) we segregate and treat Muslims like second class citizens,
then I would expect that they might take exception, and try something
stupid, like a bombing. But that is true of any group... if you marginalize
them enough, eventually they will feel they have no other recourse than
through terrorism. Surprised you haven't picked up on that yet... (also,
surprised that someone as dull minded as you is still able to breath
unassisted.)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
23 Jun 2005 09:39:10 AM |
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Woods wrote:
TheSilver@Bullet.com wrote:
Real smart, real fucking smart, jail the people who are sounding the
alarm against the Islamic jihad.
Tony
They don't have full freedom of speech in Australia, Tony.
Woods
Obviously.
Tony
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| User: "Su Zanadu" |
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| Title: Re: Aussie govt. to jail Christians for speaking against Islam |
24 Jun 2005 05:22:28 PM |
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JJB wrote:
Ever asked yourself what is happening to
the pop charts?
I don't listen to the radio too much but classic rock CD's.
To give you an idea of the type of music I like, I just bought "The
Cream of Clapton" and "Eric Clapton Unplugged" and "Bob Seger's Greatest
Hits".
I've been wearing them out the past few days.
http://www.fruityloops.com/
Is there something particular you are wanting to show me on this site?
SuZanne
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