Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured

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Topic:	Science > Prophecies-Of-Nostradamus
User:	"Peter K."
Date:	23 Apr 2004 06:34:43 AM
Object:	Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured

Daniel's verse below may indicate the rapture already occured:
7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they
had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a
season
and time.
How could Christ live on Earth where Satan is bound for a 1000 years
if the nations (including Gog and Magog country named after grandson
of Noah) mentioned above are also allowed to CO-EXIST on the same
planet as Christ's dominion.
This is impossible and therefore the Rapture may have already occured
AND is ONLY in heaven (people that have died) and not on EARTH.
It is identified in the bible the first rapture (first resurection)
occurred at the time of large slaying of people which could have been
in the 1200 through the hand of the Barbaric Mongol Empire.
Fuller Chapter on Daniel and Armaggedon below:
7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast,
dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron
teeth:
it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet
of
it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it
had
ten horns.
7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them
another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns
plucked
up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of
man,
and a mouth speaking great things.
7:11I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the
horn
spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed,
and
given to the burning flame. 7:12As concerning the rest of the beasts,
they
had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a
season
and time.
-------------------------------------------------
.

User: "Diana Burgess"
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured	23 Apr 2004 07:19:44 AM

"Peter K." <guskz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7f35df4b.0404230334.4df06d38@posting.google.com...

Daniel's verse below may indicate the rapture already occured:

7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they
had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a
season
and time.

How could Christ live on Earth where Satan is bound for a 1000 years
if the nations (including Gog and Magog country named after grandson
of Noah) mentioned above are also allowed to CO-EXIST on the same
planet as Christ's dominion.

This is impossible and therefore the Rapture may have already occured
AND is ONLY in heaven (people that have died) and not on EARTH.

It is identified in the bible the first rapture (first resurection)
occurred at the time of large slaying of people which could have been
in the 1200 through the hand of the Barbaric Mongol Empire.

Fuller Chapter on Daniel and Armaggedon below:

7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast,
dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron
teeth:
it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet
of
it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it
had
ten horns.
7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them
another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns
plucked
up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of
man,
and a mouth speaking great things.

7:11I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the
horn
spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed,
and
given to the burning flame. 7:12As concerning the rest of the beasts,
they
had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a
season
and time.
-------------------------------------------------

If you had read the rest of the post where you lifted this from, this is the
first death of the beast of Revelation.
Try to keep up Peter.
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User: "Peter K."
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured	23 Apr 2004 01:11:59 PM

If you had read the rest of the post where you lifted this from, this is the
first death of the beast of Revelation.

Try to keep up Peter.

I already know Revelation has this similarity with Daniel Chap.7
What first death, this is the 666 Beast and he only dies once then
comes the 1000 years with Christ then Gog and Magog?
.

User: "Diana Burgess"
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured	25 Apr 2004 01:44:33 AM

"Peter K." <guskz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7f35df4b.0404231011.427b4eee@posting.google.com...

If you had read the rest of the post where you lifted this from, this is

the

first death of the beast of Revelation.

Try to keep up Peter.

I already know Revelation has this similarity with Daniel Chap.7

What first death, this is the 666 Beast and he only dies once then
comes the 1000 years with Christ then Gog and Magog?

13:1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of
the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns,
and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 13:2And the beast which I saw was
like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth
as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and
great authority. 13:3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death;
and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
HIS DEADLY WOUND WAS HEALED.
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User: "Peter K."
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured	25 Apr 2004 02:30:29 PM

What first death, this is the 666 Beast .....

13:1...a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns,.... 13:3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed

HIS DEADLY WOUND WAS HEALED.

Correct and Not correct:
The 4th Beast is Rome but the LITTLE Horn is never mentioned as Rome's
only that it replaces 3 of the 10 horns.
Daniel Chap. 7: 4 Beast are 4 Kings and therefore not just Empires as
well with time they can become only horns/heads and vice-versa.
The Mystery: Daniel's LITTLE horn is DIFFERENT from the rest it has
mouth and eyes = healed head but the head is a SEQUENTIAL empire not a
simultaneous kingdom like the 10 horns of the 4th BEAST of Rome!!!!
Rome was cast into the fire FOREVER (this one is NEVER to heal) and
the 10 horns permitted to continue but it is not "thee" FIRST
beast/empire of REVELATIONS that is now healed!!!!!
Evidence:
A) The 10 horns/toes of Rome are 10 SIMULTANEOUS Kingdoms, Christ
defeats the 10 toes (horns) of the Statue BUT as well the *WHOLE*
statue "after" is destroyed and becomes chaff (*ALL* Empires/Beasts
are thrown into the LAKE of fire).

B) Revelation's Dragon Beast/Empire is not exactly like Daniel's 4th
Beast of Rome since it is made of all the Beasts of Daniel's Chapter
7: (mouth of lion = New Babylone/Persia (or Rome),feet of bear =
PERSIA, body of leopoard = GREECE) and therefore all Empires (not just
Rome)
C) The 10 or 8 horns (after 3 are replaced) ARE ***SIMULTANEOUS***
kingdoms but Revelation's Beast with 8 (7) heads (The healed head is
of the seven but also an EIGHT) are sequential (not simultaneous: 7
heads are 7 Kings: where 6 Kings/Kingdoms/Empires are gone, one is,
one is left to come and is also of those past seven empires and
therefore an EIGHT....healed means it comes back twice = RESURRECTED
EMPIRE and not NESCESSARILY Rome although this HEALED HEAD (LITTLE
Horn with eyes/mouth) takes AUTHORITY over ROME's 10 horns!!!)
Daniel's LITLE horn with eyes/mouth (HEALED HEAD) takes over 3
horns:
In Nostradamus letter to Henry the 1st Antichrist: Xerxes(Persia) and
Attila's (Mongol/Hun) Empire take over 3 countries of Europe through
the Meditarean Sea: 1st Greece, then Italy (and Rome/Church = new law
with new mouth), and finally Spain.............then Spain is the
turning (Sierra Morena and the triumvir fleet) point who also
""perhaps"" is the 2nd Antichrist and all from Pamponia (Greece) to
Mesopotamia(Persia) is annhilated (exact words: these countries are
changed from "a city into a house")
(His Deadly Wound healed....who's wound = the Beast made up of *ALL*
Empires not just Rome and the little horn(king and EMPIRE) took over
Rome this ***ONE*** takes "temporary dominion/law/islamic law over the
other remaining 7 horns)
SINCE**** "this" Beast(Empire) has 7(8) heads and each is a
*****PREVIOUS***** KINGs/kingdom (NOT NOT simultaneous).......and you
agree these heads cannot be the horns which rule simultaneously with
the Beast.
THEREFORE "perhaps" the LITTLE horn is Nostradamus' Persia/Mongol
Empire and the Healed Head!!!
Persia takes over Italy Rome's Vatican it's islamic law becomes the
new law abolishing Christ's/Vatican's law.
.

User: "Misty"
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured	26 Apr 2004 05:23:48 AM

Peter K. wrote:

What first death, this is the 666 Beast .....

13:1...a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns,.... 13:3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed

HIS DEADLY WOUND WAS HEALED.

Correct and Not correct:

The 4th Beast is Rome but the LITTLE Horn is never mentioned as Rome's
only that it replaces 3 of the 10 horns.

Did Rome do that about the time the papacy came into existence long about
the year 538 AD.?
I think the 3 nations it plucked up were "Lumbards", "Revena", and "
Rome".
See Revelation 17:9-11
Revelation 17
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are
seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and
the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue
a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth,
and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
I see verse 11 put Rome with the seven as I said Rome was plucked up and
it became, the "Roman" Catholic church, AKA The papacy, also "The Man
of Sin".

Daniel Chap. 7: 4 Beast are 4 Kings and therefore not just Empires as
well with time they can become only horns/heads and vice-versa.

The Mystery: Daniel's LITTLE horn is DIFFERENT from the rest it has
mouth and eyes = healed head but the head is a SEQUENTIAL empire not a
simultaneous kingdom like the 10 horns of the 4th BEAST of Rome!!!!

Does that mean they are one right after the other?
That Sure looks like the Rcc to me.

Rome was cast into the fire FOREVER (this one is NEVER to heal) and
the 10 horns permitted to continue but it is not "thee" FIRST
beast/empire of REVELATIONS that is now healed!!!!!

The wound was healed some time after the deadly blow was inflicted in
1798 to 1929. YOU do the math on this one if you need to know how long
it was that no pope sat on the Throne in Vatican all that time.

Evidence:

A) The 10 horns/toes of Rome are 10 SIMULTANEOUS Kingdoms, Christ
defeats the 10 toes (horns) of the Statue BUT as well the *WHOLE*
statue "after" is destroyed and becomes chaff (*ALL* Empires/Beasts
are thrown into the LAKE of fire).

B) Revelation's Dragon Beast/Empire is not exactly like Daniel's 4th
Beast of Rome since it is made of all the Beasts of Daniel's Chapter
7: (mouth of lion = New Babylone/Persia (or Rome),feet of bear =
PERSIA, body of leopoard = GREECE) and therefore all Empires (not just
Rome)

It is all of them to show it is still "BABYLON"!
It has roots way back to King Nebuchadnezzar and includes all of the nations
that fell in line after Him.

C) The 10 or 8 horns (after 3 are replaced) ARE ***SIMULTANEOUS***
kingdoms but Revelation's Beast with 8 (7) heads (The healed head is
of the seven but also an EIGHT) are sequential (not simultaneous: 7
heads are 7 Kings: where 6 Kings/Kingdoms/Empires are gone, one is,
one is left to come and is also of those past seven empires and
therefore an EIGHT....healed means it comes back twice = RESURRECTED
EMPIRE and not NESCESSARILY Rome although this HEALED HEAD (LITTLE
Horn with eyes/mouth) takes AUTHORITY over ROME's 10 horns!!!)

What 3 nations or kingdoms were rooted up and are no more from the
formation of the Papacy?

Daniel's LITLE horn with eyes/mouth (HEALED HEAD) takes over 3
horns:

In Nostradamus letter to Henry the 1st Antichrist: Xerxes(Persia) and
Attila's (Mongol/Hun) Empire take over 3 countries of Europe through
the Meditarean Sea: 1st Greece, then Italy (and Rome/Church = new law
with new mouth), and finally Spain.............then Spain is the
turning (Sierra Morena and the triumvir fleet) point who also
""perhaps"" is the 2nd Antichrist and all from Pamponia (Greece) to
Mesopotamia(Persia) is annhilated (exact words: these countries are
changed from "a city into a house")

(His Deadly Wound healed....who's wound = the Beast made up of *ALL*
Empires not just Rome and the little horn(king and EMPIRE) took over
Rome this ***ONE*** takes "temporary dominion/law/islamic law over the
other remaining 7 horns)

Wrong, it dominates as the Roman Catholic church Laws. and enforces them
with the "INCISION"

SINCE**** "this" Beast(Empire) has 7(8) heads and each is a
*****PREVIOUS***** KINGs/kingdom (NOT NOT simultaneous).......and you
agree these heads cannot be the horns which rule simultaneously with
the Beast.

THEREFORE "perhaps" the LITTLE horn is Nostradamus' Persia/Mongol
Empire and the Healed Head!!!

The little horn has blasphemous "names" on it horns".
Who claims to be the Vicar Of Christ; ae "THE REPLACEMENT OF CHRIST"?

Persia takes over Italy Rome's Vatican it's islamic law becomes the
new law abolishing Christ's/Vatican's law.

The papacy took over Rome for one and that is how it got it's Name
The "Roman" Catholic Church".
All of what I say is recorded in any better study of History.
IN His Word,
Misty,
.

User: "Peter K."
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured	26 Apr 2004 03:44:05 PM

Misty <""yardholler\"@Nospam,charter.net> wrote in message

The 4th Beast is Rome but the LITTLE Horn is never mentioned as Rome's
only that it replaces 3 of the 10 horns.

Did Rome do that about the time the papacy came into existence long about
the year 538 AD.?
I think the 3 nations it plucked up were "Lumbards", "Revena", and "
Rome".

3 rulers and nations were exterminated (Vandals, Heruli, Ostrogoths)
before the church could take over control of Rome. And the church had
some authority over Europe hence little horn with eyes and mouth,
But there still could be considered 10 nations of the old Roman
Empire...don't know why Greece is not considered as one nation by
those Documenting about the 10 horns of Rome for example.
It is possible the Vatican becomes an Antichrist and makes new laws
such as on homosexual priests and others as Jesus said: "the most
precious parts of the Gospel will be removed".
But at present you can't say the Vatican and the churches are so evil
as to bring on the Apocalypse and that the Pope of whom St-Peter was
the founder does not adhere to the Gospel of Christ.
Nostradamus definetaly says Persia will defeat Greece, Italy, Spain
and capture the Pope...hard to be an Antichrist if you are in Prison.

See Revelation 17:9-11
Revelation 17
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are
seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and
the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue
a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth,
and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

I see verse 11 put Rome with the seven as I said Rome was plucked up and
it became, the "Roman" Catholic church, AKA The papacy, also "The Man
of Sin".

Does that mean they are one right after the other?

Yes, Revelations Beast IS SEQUENTIAL (not simultaneous), it is like
Daniel's Statue (Sequential) and not like the 10 horns of the 4th
Beast (Simultaneous).
Revelations Beast is made of at least ALL the 4 first Empires in
Daniel Chap.7.
More evident are the 7 heads which are 7 sequential kings(Empires)
throughout history. According to Revelations 5 are already gone.

Rome was cast into the fire FOREVER (this one is NEVER to heal) and
the 10 horns permitted to continue but it is not "thee" FIRST
beast/empire of REVELATIONS that is now healed!!!!!

True but still not blaspheming God as the little Horn does in Daniel
to be called an Antichrist and bringing on Armageddon.
And as you said it was healed in 1929 only once and not twice where as
Nostradamus says Italy and the Pope will fall into the Mohammets'
(Persia) hands. I don't think they will be clement to permit the Pope
to continue.
.

User: "Misty"
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured	27 Apr 2004 03:36:41 AM

Peter K. wrote:

Misty <""yardholler\"@Nospam,charter.net> wrote in message

The 4th Beast is Rome but the LITTLE Horn is never mentioned as Rome's
only that it replaces 3 of the 10 horns.

Did Rome do that about the time the papacy came into existence long about
the year 538 AD.?
I think the 3 nations it plucked up were "Lumbards", "Revena", and "
Rome".

I guess it depends on what school you go to.
One for sure was Rome hence the Roman papacy is the 8th and is of the seven,
as staten in Revelation 17.

But there still could be considered 10 nations of the old Roman
Empire...don't know why Greece is not considered as one nation by
those Documenting about the 10 horns of Rome for example.

Also there is a 10 nation coalition called the league of nations that
also are there today but are most obscure with the invention of so may
state nations of The Papacy, and do not forget the US. of A. fits in the
scheme of things as well.

It is possible the Vatican becomes an Antichrist and makes new laws
such as on homosexual priests and others as Jesus said: "the most
precious parts of the Gospel will be removed".

The very first one was to reveal it was The Man of Sin of Prophecy
revealed and when he revealed himself it started the Prophecy of the
1260 prophetic days which equaled literal 1260 years.
It was that long for, believe it or not, "THE GREAT TRIBULATION".

But at present you can't say the Vatican and the churches are so evil
as to bring on the Apocalypse and that the Pope of whom St-Peter was
the founder does not adhere to the Gospel of Christ.

The day of the Apocalypse is arbitrary.
It may mean the wars like W.W.I and W.W.II and all that is now going on in
the gulf.
Or it may mean just one more prophecy about the time of the GT.

Nostradamus definetaly says Persia will defeat Greece, Italy, Spain
and capture the Pope...hard to be an Antichrist if you are in Prison.

Umm. See Daniel 8 and 9, and you may see that Greece is mentioned therein.
IN 1798 that pope was arrested an put in prison where he died and from then
on the popes were subject to kings, not like they were during the 1260 years
before that happened.

Does that mean they are one right after the other?

Very good you see this. Hence the line of sixes in Revelation 13,
one six right after the other 6 6 6.
Also see Daniel 7:25, to see what God lets His Saints be subject to for
that prophetic time period.
Daniel 7
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and
shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change
times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time
and times and the dividing of time.
This prophetic time is also mentioned in Revelation 12 and is of
the same time period of 1260 literal years when properly broken down
or decoded by the rules of Keys of prophecy applied.

More evident are the 7 heads which are 7 sequential kings(Empires)
throughout history. According to Revelations 5 are already gone.

Might they have had popes from them in the line of popes?
I know mostly the popes were Italian. but the one now was a pol.

Rome was cast into the fire FOREVER (this one is NEVER to heal) and
the 10 horns permitted to continue but it is not "thee" FIRST
beast/empire of REVELATIONS that is now healed!!!!!

I think if you take a look at that beast you may see that one of the heads
is in fact the nation of the papacy.

True but still not blaspheming God as the little Horn does in Daniel
to be called an Antichrist and bringing on Armageddon.

What is more blasphemous then to claim to take the place of the son of God?
They claim to be the Vicar of Christ.
I asked a Rcc priest if any man could take the place of Jesus.
He said "NO THAT IS BLASPHEMY".
Then I asked him if the pope could do that?
He said "yes well he can".
I also asked him about the name all RCC Priests take when they are ordained
VICARIOVS FILII DEI.
He said Yes he did take that title.
Then I added up the roman numerals in it and showed him he too has the
blasphemous name then the bible talks about.
He got so mad he grabbed the little piece of paper and tore it to bits.
HE also said the bible does not say that.
He confirmed a lot in that short while, I must say.

And as you said it was healed in 1929 only once and not twice where as
Nostradamus says Italy and the Pope will fall into the Mohammets'
(Persia) hands. I don't think they will be clement to permit the Pope
to continue.

The bible says God will only permit it for a while until the time of the
gentiles is over.
I thought that may be for the time of the GT. but is seems it is a time according
to God not me. he he he.
Also I talked to Muslims and they are fighting against the Christians.
I told him the papacy is not christian.
He said "The claim they are".
So Yes you may well be right God is going to kill 2 birds with one stone
if they do attack the Papacy in furry that God lets them do.
It will be much to their dismay that they use Jesus name so falsely maybe
even to their total destruction.
The next time it will not be just a head wound but total annihilation.
IN his word,
Misty,
.

User: "Peter K."
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured	27 Apr 2004 05:30:34 PM

Misty <""yardholler\"@Nospam,charter.net> wrote in message

I guess it depends on what school you go to.
One for sure was Rome .....

I just gave someone else's popular opinion (all three above occupied
Rome at one time or another)

started the Prophecy of the

1260 prophetic days which equaled literal 1260 years.
It was that long for, believe it or not, "THE GREAT TRIBULATION".

I also believe the 1260 days = 1260 years but it doesn't exactly agree
with the 3.5 days that then equal 1260 days that then equal years (the
general belief is 3.5 years = 1260 days)
Also it's hard to place Revelation's 2 witness that appear at the
mid-week (1260 days) and ascend into heaven in from of everyone. You
could play with words to explain 2 witnesses as something else
(example beast = empire) but not them going up to heaven in front of
everyone (unless it was never documented in past history)

Plausibly true but CHRIST told St-Peter you will be the HEAD of my
Church and that is not a blaspheme...In fact St-Peter is theoretically
the first POPE of the Christian Church and according to Malachy the
last one will be called Peter the Roman. You must also be aware that
many apparitions from God have appeared to Popes in order to help
them...As well one of the three Sisters of Fatima whom appeared the
Virgin Mary gave her a message to send to the Pope which delt on the
risk of losing his Life....
The Bible's reference to the Abomination of Desolation...the
Abomination was considered THEE Blaspheme to God and his temple in
Jerusalem.
The fist abomination of Desolation was from Antioch King of Siria in
Daniel Chap.11 verse 31:
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the
sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and
they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate
The next Abomination DESOLATING God's Temple is WHOM ever is now
occupying God's Holy Temple in Jerusalem...which is a MUSLIM Temple
and the prophecy say it will remaing desolate for 2 periods of 1260
days: therefore since it's still desolate the 1260 days should
theoretically be 1260 years....
And that is the JEWISH temple, which the blood of the Lamb is an
abomination to CHRIST therefore theoretically I think CHRIST says it
is done for and his Blood and Sacrifice is the Payment to God...going
back to blood of lambs would be an insult to Christ's sacrifice done
once and for everyone.
In addition I believe that when the Muslim's as Nostradamus
Prophecized in his letter to King Henry take over Rome and Christ's
Church that may very well be ten times more of an Abomination of
DESOLATION than the Jewish temple...
When ISLAM(MOHAMED) invaded other countries in the Past they FORCED
them to convert to ISLAM or KILLED THEM (EXAMPLE EGYPT)!
.

User: "Misty"
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured	28 Apr 2004 06:03:56 AM

Peter K. wrote:

Misty <""yardholler\"@Nospam,charter.net> wrote in message

I guess it depends on what school you go to.
One for sure was Rome .....

I just gave someone else's popular opinion (all three above occupied
Rome at one time or another)

Those you mentioned seem to have been those that were coming from other places
in attack of Rome but did not stay to occupy the land, where Lumbards, Revenna
and Rome, were nations with kings so I have been lectured on as presented.

started the Prophecy of the

1260 prophetic days which equaled literal 1260 years.
It was that long for, believe it or not, "THE GREAT TRIBULATION".

I also believe the 1260 days = 1260 years but it doesn't exactly agree
with the 3.5 days that then equal 1260 days that then equal years (the
general belief is 3.5 years = 1260 days)

I have to agree there seems to be a problem with that one 3 1/2 days in
Revelation. It is either a translation error or it takes much though to
make sense of what it it indeed talking about.
This because if we apply the keys to that one 3 1/2 days it would show only
3 1/2 literal years and fit no place. Revelation 11:11
I guess I will have to leave that for some one else to fit in some place.
I do not find the bible authority to double expand that one prophetic time
period. This is why I think it is some kind of error.
How ever Time, times and a half times means year, 2 year, and a half year, not
days so this one works much better for the expansion to day year keys.

Also it's hard to place Revelation's 2 witness that appear at the
mid-week (1260 days) and ascend into heaven in from of everyone. You
could play with words to explain 2 witnesses as something else
(example beast = empire) but not them going up to heaven in front of
everyone (unless it was never documented in past history)

Well heaven is not all that far away you know.
It may mean God approved of what man did with it when it was translated to
the every day language as it came off of the printing presses.
Or it may mean God took the original manuscripts.
I guess the jury is still out on that mystery but I am sure The bible is
the 2 witnesses that came through the Dark ages of the Great Tribulation.

Yes Peter was the first Christian Apostle not pope of the Christian Church,
Not the "Roman Catholic Church", Do you see the difference here?
See how easy it is to mix them together? Satan knows this too and hates it
when a wise person can make the distinction.
Peter never did claim to take the place of Jesus Christ as every priest
and pope does.

You must also be aware that
many apparitions from God have appeared to Popes in order to help
them...As well one of the three Sisters of Fatima whom appeared the
Virgin Mary gave her a message to send to the Pope which delt on the
risk of losing his Life....

What does Man have to do to take the place of Jesus Christ?
He has to present himself as "THE SON OF LIGHT".
He also has to put on sheep's clothing even though he is a wolf bent on destruction
of the true sheep.
HE also has to have a deity to hid behind. That deity is none other then the
impostor Satan looking like the son of morning or the morning star, AKA the
rising "SUN", for if you look closely you will find the sun god of old in their
temples right behind the heads of their Crucifixes.

The Bible's reference to the Abomination of Desolation...the
Abomination was considered THEE Blaspheme to God and his temple in
Jerusalem.

Prophecy about the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem of 70 ad.

The fist abomination of Desolation was from Antioch King of Siria in
Daniel Chap.11 verse 31:

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the
sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and
they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate

The next Abomination DESOLATING God's Temple is WHOM ever is now
occupying God's Holy Temple in Jerusalem...which is a MUSLIM Temple
and the prophecy say it will remaing desolate for 2 periods of 1260
days: therefore since it's still desolate the 1260 days should
theoretically be 1260 years....

I do not think is means the Muslim building. there was no temple there
when that Mosque was built.
Also that mosque has been there far longer then the prophetic 1260 days.
I need book chapter and verse for the double time period you are stating.
Wow! All these years I have missed that.

And that is the JEWISH temple, which the blood of the Lamb is an
abomination to CHRIST therefore theoretically I think CHRIST says it
is done for and his Blood and Sacrifice is the Payment to God...going
back to blood of lambs would be an insult to Christ's sacrifice done
once and for everyone.

But every one of the building block of the present New Jerusalem are covered
by jesus' blood.
WE Christians are those building block for this temple and city are not made
by the hands of Man but are the chosen ones of God.

In addition I believe that when the Muslim's as Nostradamus
Prophecized in his letter to King Henry take over Rome and Christ's
Church that may very well be ten times more of an Abomination of
DESOLATION than the Jewish temple...

The only church the muslims can take over is the Man made church of Rome.
They can not even see the Christina Church that Jesus is the chief cap stone
of.

When ISLAM(MOHAMED) invaded other countries in the Past they FORCED
them to convert to ISLAM or KILLED THEM (EXAMPLE EGYPT)!

God may use them to destroy The RCC and its sister The US Government.
God will only let them both be in existence for his allotted time and
then they will both fall apart from the inside out or maybe implode
on themselves.
M,
.

User: "Peter K."
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured	28 Apr 2004 10:53:55 AM

Misty <""yardholler\"@Nospam,charter.net> wrote in message

How ever Time, times and a half times means year, 2 year, and a half year, not
days so this one works much better for the expansion to day year keys.

The same arithmatic should be used on all time = 1, times = 2, half
time =.5
1+2+.5 = 3.5
and agrees with the 2 periods of 3.5 days that make up Daniel's
remaining week
otherwise I really think times and half a time = 2.5
----------------------------
What's just as interesting is the SEASON in Revelation:
Both the Slain at the 5th Seal have to "wait" as "SEASON" for their
remaining Brethren and Satan is let loose after the 1000 years for a
"SEASON" with Gog & Magog....A Season = 1/4 of a year = 3 Months =
365.25 /4 = 91 days

VICARIOVS FILII DEI.

The Pharisee's will be the last to enter Heaven, Jesus said Sodom and
Gomorha will receive more passion from God then them. The Phairsee's
Crusified Jesus when he said: "I am the Son of God". Also we are all
the Sons of God.
And God said to Moses: "You are GOD" ....no blasphemy
Jesus to James:"This is your mother, Mary this is your son"
Jesus to Satan:"You were the Son of the Morning as appointed by GOD",
the "mother" and largest tree of Lebano whom the angels fed of your
branches........but then you looked at your majesty and got filled
with pride and only that is your Sin.
God to David: "Your sin is having counted your wealth and measuring
the strength of your nation(number of people) so choose your
punishment: either x months at the ennemies hand or a plague sent by
ME on the LAND".

Yes Peter was the first Christian Apostle not pope of the Christian Church,
Not the "Roman Catholic Church", Do you see the difference here?

Correct but Christ told St-Peter to be the Head and to "build" his
CHURCH, Christ main purpose was to build his Church in his memory
where we eat his body (eucharisty) and drink his blood(red wine) in
memory of him.
Removal of the Pope in the 1800's and the Christian Church was
"precipitated" by wars and largest bloodshed of many Centuries from
King's of France(Napolean) wishing to Conquer(Emperor) all Europe. The
king is more of an anti-christ than the Pope. Jesus is love(#1) but
also shall rule with an "IRON" rod according to God.

The Bible's reference to the Abomination of Desolation...the
Abomination was considered THEE Blaspheme to God and his temple in
Jerusalem.

Prophecy about the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem of 70 ad.

Correct and after their shall remain "1 week" of Daniel's 70 weeks
where the temple shall remain desolate and be trampled by the
people(GENTILES) of the Prince to Come (Satan/Dragon).
Revelation "do not measure the outer temple for it will belong to the
Gentiles")
the PRINCE to come(Satan and Revelation's Dragon made up of
Beasts(Gentiles) of Daniel chap.7)

I do not think is means the Muslim building. there was no temple there
when that Mosque was built.
Also that mosque has been there far longer then the prophetic 1260 days.

By definition: Gentiles is all nations except Jews.(all parts of
Revelation's Dragon)

I need book chapter and verse for the double time period you are stating.
Wow! All these years I have missed that.

It is Daniel's remaining week of the 70 weeks(perhaps a new calendar
after Christ Death/Birth 0AC therefore a new interpretations to the
week)
Daniel 9.26: After 7 weeks and 62 weeks (69 weeks):"the
people(Gentiles) of the prince that shall come shall DESTROY the city
and the sanctuary"
Now the temple is DESTROYED/GONE/NO SACRIFICE and ONE week left:
Daniel 9.27:27 And he(the DRAGON/prince that shall come) shall confirm
the covenant with many for ONE week: and in the***MIDST***of the
week(3.5 days) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,
even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon
the desolate.
In Revelation's the 2 Witnesses arrive in the MIDDLE of the WEEK
(after 3.5 days) are killed and then the Dragon continues further with
another 3.5 days = 1 week.
Mind you the 2 Witnesses die after 3 days....could be litteral days or
3 of the remaining 3.5 days is about 1000 days(1000 years where Satan
remains chained)
Also there are many variations of the exact 1260 days in Daniel chap
12:
11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away,
and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a
thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth,
and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."

The only church the muslims can take over is the Man made church of Rome.

Yes but they shall kill anyone who does not convert to ISLAM that why
95% of ALL Arabs are Muslim, they where killed in the PAST (around
300-400AC don't remember) if they did not convert.

When ISLAM(MOHAMED) invaded other countries in the Past they FORCED
them to convert to ISLAM or KILLED THEM (EXAMPLE EGYPT)!

I think it's called "EXTREMIST" religion, perhaps a punishment by God
when to much LIBERALISM occurs (Homesexuality, divorce, orgys,
pornography)...
Hopefully the Future will not have to always re-balance between
"conservatistic extremism" and "over indulged liberalism".
.

User: "Misty"
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured	29 Apr 2004 05:10:35 AM

Peter K. wrote:

Misty <""yardholler\"@Nospam,charter.net> wrote in message

How ever Time, times and a half times means, year, 2 year, and a half year, not
days so this one works much better for the expansion to day year keys.

I see you misread what I wrote, Year, 2 years and a half year Meant to be
one year, 2 years and a half year. if you look at it again you will
see it I put in an , comma for you.

YEs it would but there is "time," there first in front of the "Times" so it would
make it 3 and 1/3 prophetic years not days.
Days in Prophesy have other meanings.

----------------------------
What's just as interesting is the SEASON in Revelation:
Both the Slain at the 5th Seal have to "wait" as "SEASON" for their
remaining Brethren and Satan is let loose after the 1000 years for a
"SEASON" with Gog & Magog....A Season = 1/4 of a year = 3 Months =
365.25 /4 = 91 days

Where do you get that key from?
I have been searching for that information for a long time.
Please show me book chapter and verse for authority to do that
calculation.

VICARIOVS FILII DEI.

I read you.

And God said to Moses: "You are GOD" ....no blasphemy
Jesus to James:"This is your mother, Mary this is your son"
Jesus to Satan:"You were the Son of the Morning as appointed by GOD",
the "mother" and largest tree of Lebano whom the angels fed of your
branches........but then you looked at your majesty and got filled
with pride and only that is your Sin.
God to David: "Your sin is having counted your wealth and measuring
the strength of your nation(number of people) so choose your
punishment: either x months at the ennemies hand or a plague sent by
ME on the LAND".

Umm, I do not read you here.

Yes Peter was the first Christian Apostle, not pope, of the Christian Church,
Not the "Roman Catholic Church", Do you see the difference here?

That is why it is called the "Christian Church" not The Roman
Catholic Church, or Methodist, or Lutheran or any of the other congregations
that have secular names as their titles.
I doubt you will be able to even find the the True Christian Church if
you were to search for it on Earth today.
Where 2 or 3 are gathered together.
Matthew 18
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there
am I in the midst of them.
Now this is the True Christian Church you will find in the Bible.
How will you be able to find this one in the World?
I have seen those pretending to be those 2 or 3 but seldom were they
gathered together in The Name of Jesus Christ.

Removal of the Pope in the 1800's and the Christian Church was
"precipitated" by wars and largest bloodshed of many Centuries from
King's of France(Napolean) wishing to Conquer(Emperor) all Europe. The
king is more of an anti-christ than the Pope. Jesus is love(#1) but
also shall rule with an "IRON" rod according to God.

The "Beast and it's little horn shall be different then the others (kingdoms);
Daniel
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth
beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had
great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped
the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the
beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them
another little horn, before whom there were three of the first
horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were
eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
revelation 17:
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these
shall hate the *****,
and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh,
and burn her with fire.
Wow! Now whom could that ***** possibly be?

The Bible's reference to the Abomination of Desolation...the
Abomination was considered THEE Blaspheme to God and his temple in
Jerusalem.

Prophecy about the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem of 70 ad.

Correct and after their shall remain "1 week" of Daniel's 70 weeks
where the temple shall remain desolate and be trampled by the
people(GENTILES) of the Prince to Come (Satan/Dragon).

Not so! The prophecy is about Jesus and His ministry for that last week
of the Prophecy. There is not authority to separate the last week from
the Whole prophecy it was fulfilled along with the 69 weeks of years just
as it is Prophesied. The 70 weeks of years was fulfilled in or about
34 AD. Seven years after Jesus was baptized in The river Jordan at 30
years old. He was crucified 3 1/2 years into his ministry but He did
not stop there, He was only cut off, as it says. In fact he is still
doing his ministry today but the prophecy was fulfilled completely when
paul was sent to minister to the "Gentiles" apart from the Hebrew nation,
That had been the Chosen people up to that point.

Revelation "do not measure the outer temple for it will belong to the
Gentiles")

the PRINCE to come(Satan and Revelation's Dragon made up of
Beasts(Gentiles) of Daniel chap.7)

See Daniel 8 and it names 3 of the 4 beasts, Can you guess who the
4th beast was to be and is?

I do not think is means the Muslim building. there was no temple there
when that Mosque was built.
Also that mosque has been there far longer then the prophetic 1260 days.

By definition: Gentiles is all nations except Jews.(all parts of
Revelation's Dragon)

NOt so!
See above for Daniel 8 that names the beasts.
Daniel 7 put a signification on them by representing them as animal.
They al are one in Revelation 13.
Those nations followed in line in history starting with King Nebuchadnezzar.
Daniel 1.

I need book chapter and verse for the double time period you are stating.
Wow! All these years I have missed that.

Daniel
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy
city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and
to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting
righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint
the most Holy.
Here is says "to seal up the vision and prophecy". . .
This tells us it is not to be tampered with and it will be complete in it's
fulfillment. There is no authority to remove half or part of the last week.
The last week is only set apart to talk about it not to remove it from the
whole prophecy. There is no prophecy anywhere in the Bible that comes apart
and is fulfilled in 2 different time periods to make it fit some hubbub of
invented bible translation or interpretations.
Also it was to "Anoint the most Holy, if you really know who that was to
be?
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the
commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the
Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street
shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
- - - 62 weeks of years it would have been completed just in time for
"The Messiah" to come onto the scene as is what this prophecy is all about
besides the rebuilding of Old Jerusalem and it total destruction again.
I do not think King Nebuchadnezzar totally destroyed it when he sacked
it in about 606 BC.. Here it calls the "Messiah" the Prince.
- - -
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but
not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with
a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Here the people of the "prince" low case p is talking about some other
prince then the messiah. Notice it does not say how long after the
62 weeks that was to happen. WE do know it was in 70 AD. however.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one
week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the
sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the
overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,
even until the consummation, and that determined shall be
poured upon the desolate.
- - - - -
Who confirmed a covenant with many for the one week, or the first half
of that last week and beyond to the end of that week.
When Jesus gave up his life on the Cross the veil in that temple was
torn from bottom to top to expose the inner sanctuary that put an end to the
Daily sacrifice, as He was the lamb that all those daily sacrifices were
pointing to and even thought the jews tried to sew the veil back up it was
still the end of the temple and that old Jerusalem never again to be
built by human hands. Rome came and tore the city and the temple down
to make a finale end to it.
It still says "for one week" not half the week. see above but in the middle of the
week He was crucified, dead, and buried but He came to life and still made
the New covenant with "the many". Now stopping of the total Prophecy at all.
- - - - -

Now the temple is DESTROYED/GONE/NO SACRIFICE and ONE week left:
Daniel 9.27:27 And he(the DRAGON/prince that shall come) shall confirm
the covenant with many for ONE week: and in the***MIDST***of the
week(3.5 days) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,
even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon
the desolate.

Not so see above in the bible printing, there is not one word there that says
the last week was to be removed from the prophecy.
but The temple and the city were to be destroyed by the people of that other
prince that was to come. There is a prince of darkness that is at work in the
world and is behind the earthly kings of people of high authority.
Actually the Hebrews tried to continue with the daily sacrifices but Rome put
an end to that in 70 AD. about 39 Years after "The Crucifixion" of "The Messiah".
Jesus is the Prince of God The Father in Heaven and is the Prince that
put and end to the sacrifice, not the prince of the "Dragon"

In Revelation's the 2 Witnesses arrive in the MIDDLE of the WEEK
(after 3.5 days) are killed and then the Dragon continues further with
another 3.5 days = 1 week.

Is that what it really says?
I do not read it that way at all.
Revelation 11
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel
stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar,
and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and
measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy
city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall
prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed
in sackcloth.
- - - - -
Now those 2 time periods are depicting the same Prophetic time span, and it is
not 3.5 years as it looks like and what you recognize it to be.
I may fill you in on how to deal with those prophetic numbers.
- - - - -
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks
standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of
their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man
will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the
days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn
them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as
often as they will.
- - - - -- This Rain,
is a prophetic bible Rain meaning learning of the bible truths.
- - - - -
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the
beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make
war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the
great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt,
where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and
nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half,
and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
- - - - -
I have been Shown, or reminded how this time period fits into the whole
prophecy. The 3.5 days here are a part of or inside of the prophetic
1260 days mentioned in verses 2 and 3.
I am saying there would be a 3 and a half years of time within the 1260
day prophecy but not add to it to make it 3.5 years longer.
- - - - - -
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over
them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another;
because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the
earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from
God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great
fear fell upon them which saw them.
- - - - - - -
Again, this time is a segment of the 1260 years of "THE GREAT TRIBULATION" or
what in history is known as "THE DARK AGES". NOne of these time periods
call for adding them together at all to make them longer then the 3.5 years.
- - - - - - -
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them,
Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and
their enemies beheld them.
- - - - -
This portrays they were elevated to heavenly status.
- - - - -
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the
tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain
of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and
gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh
quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices
in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the
kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for
ever and ever.
- - - - -
This looks like that will be the end of the secular congregations of
the Denominational Churches.
- - - - -
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on
their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which
art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee
thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the
time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou
shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the
saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest
destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen
in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings,
and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Mind you the 2 Witnesses die after 3 days....could be litteral days or
3 of the remaining 3.5 days is about 1000 days(1000 years where Satan
remains chained)

They are prophetic time periods. 3.5 days in prophecy means literal years.
believe it or not, I can show you the keys and how they work.
See Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:4-6. God is making prophecy there and is
giving us the key 3 times so we have no excuse to not know them. Now it is
up to us to apply them to the rest of His Bible Prophesies properly.

Also there are many variations of the exact 1260 days in Daniel chap
12:
11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away,
and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a
thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth,
and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."

If you can find a starting date for those prophetic times you will know that
at the end of them something happens.
I think they too are to start at the same time as the 70 weeks of years
in Daniel 9:25. I am not 100% sure of this though at this very instant.

We may have to go and revisit that "Abomination of Desolation thing.
We may be twisting it out of context.

The only church the muslims can take over is the Man made church of Rome.

Yes but they shall kill anyone who does not convert to ISLAM that why
95% of ALL Arabs are Muslim, they where killed in the PAST (around
300-400AC don't remember) if they did not convert.

I read you, but remember The Creator God is more powerful then the Muslim
corrupt religion but God may be using them for his Purpose.
They are not the only corrupt religion of the world though.

When ISLAM(MOHAMED) invaded other countries in the Past they FORCED
them to convert to ISLAM or KILLED THEM (EXAMPLE EGYPT)!

I think it's called "EXTREMIST" religion, perhaps a punishment by God
when to much LIBERALISM occurs (Homesexuality, divorce, orgys,
pornography)...

OH those are all bad things when it comes to how God looks at man.

Hopefully the Future will not have to always re-balance between
"conservatistic extremism" and "over indulged liberalism".

Of You read above it says God will put and end to the gentile sects and include
them in his fold when the calamity shows people their folly.
Then we will have real God governing this world.
Wow! This was a long one I hope we can shorten it a bit soon.
IN His Word,
Misty,
.

User: "Peter K."
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured	30 Apr 2004 09:43:24 AM

Misty <""yardholler\"@Nospam,charter.net> wrote in message

Where do you get that key from?
I have been searching for that information for a long time.
Please show me book chapter and verse for authority to do that
calculation.

I'm presuming a Season is one of the 4 Seasons of the year therefore
365 days/4.
Actually except for Daniel, it's called a "LITTLE SEASON"
Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words
which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his
body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 7:12 As concerning the
rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their
lives were prolonged for a *season* and time.
The Slain people of the 5th SEAL atRevelation 6:11 And white robes
were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that
they should rest yet for a *LITTLE SEASON*, until their fellowservants
also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be
fulfilled
Revelation20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up,
and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more,
till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be
loosed a *LITTLE SEASON*
Revelation20:4 Speaks of the Slain people that lived with Christ 1000
years!!!!!!Therefore since it's only the dead/slain that live with him
then the 1st resurection could already have occured and is only UP in
heaven.

God to David: "Your sin is having counted your wealth and measuring
the strength of your nation(number of people) so choose your
punishment: either x months at the ennemies hand or a plague sent by
ME on the LAND".

Umm, I do not read you here.

Nothing really, it was the prophet who told him this and that
Measuring his wealth and Strength of his nation may have been
considered as "PRIDE" to God which then chastised him. (Same as
Satan's pride)

I doubt you will be able to even find the the True Christian Church if
you were to search for it on Earth today.
Where 2 or 3 are gathered together.
Matthew 18
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there
am I in the midst of them.

Now this is the True Christian Church you will find in the Bible.
How will you be able to find this one in the World?

True but He told St-Peter three times look after my sheep which is
similar to the Rooster informing St-Peter you can sin over the church
so be carefull. And this was about a Church much bigger than two or
three people...

revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these
shall hate the *****,
and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh,
and burn her with fire.

Wow! Now whom could that ***** possibly be?

It does reflect Rome's ten horns although 3 are supposidly replaced.

It still says "for one week" not half the week. see above but in the middle of the
week He was crucified, dead, and buried but He came to life and still made
the New covenant with "the many". Now stopping of the total Prophecy at all.

I don't think Christ has been Annointed some would dispute his Baptism
by John but if you follow the sequence of Daniel's 70 weeks it's
expressed as the LAST event.
Daniel 9:24 ....and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal
up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Correct and after their shall remain "1 week" of Daniel's 70 weeks
where the temple shall remain desolate and be trampled by the
people(GENTILES) of the Prince to Come (Satan/Dragon).

I think your missing my only point which is only that Daniel says the
temple is destroyed after the 62 weeks (the remaining 1 week is only
talked about later).
Daniel 9.26 And after ****threescore and two weeks**** shall Messiah
be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that
shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

I need book chapter and verse for the double time period you are stating.
Wow! All these years I have missed that.

In Revelation's the 2 Witnesses arrive in the MIDDLE of the WEEK
(after 3.5 days) are killed and then the Dragon continues further with
another 3.5 days = 1 week.

Is that what it really says?
I do not read it that way at all.

- - - - -

Now those 2 time periods are depicting the same Prophetic time span, and it is
not 3.5 years as it looks like and what you recognize it to be.
I may fill you in on how to deal with those prophetic numbers.
- - - - -

The Witnesses come back to life after 3.5 days= 2 x 3.5 = 1 week
There's Gentiles in Daniel that destroy the temple. Revelation has
Gentiles for 3.5 days...most would believe they are one and the same.
(and the people(Rome's Gentiles) of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary
And the mid-week of the Witnesses related to mid-week of Daniel.
---------------
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the
oblation to cease
-----------
It is believe to be the false covenant with the Prince that shall come
as is in Daniel chapter 11's Antichrist:
-----------------
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall
not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably,
and obtain the kingdom by ********flatteries***********.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before
him, and shall be broken; yea, also the ******prince of the
covenant*******
-------------------
flatteries = false covenant until the mid-week arrives and his true
stripes are revealed (and he kills the 2 witnesses that come back to
life at the end of the week (3.5 days later).
the prince of the covenant is the prince of the people that shall come
which is the Antichrist (named as the Vile person above)
.

User: "Misty"
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured or is occuring	01 May 2004 04:18:46 AM

Peter K. wrote:

Misty <""yardholler\"@Nospam,charter.net> wrote in message

Where do you get that key from?
I have been searching for that information for a long time.
Please show me book chapter and verse for authority to do that
calculation.

I'm presuming a Season is one of the 4 Seasons of the year therefore
365 days/4.

OH, OK! I guess I can not refute that. I hope I can burn this into
my memory, as short as it is for short term anyway. My long term
memory is pretty good though.

Actually except for Daniel, it's called a "LITTLE SEASON"

Hmm. I wonder if that is of any significance.

Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words
which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his
body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 7:12 As concerning the
rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their
lives were prolonged for a *season* and time.

OK I do know a Time is one literal year, if this is applicable, but I do
not see it as having a specific starting date. So it may come when it will
some time after the main beast is destroyed.

The Slain people of the 5th SEAL atRevelation 6:11 And white robes
were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that
they should rest yet for a *LITTLE SEASON*, until their fellowservants
also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be
fulfilled

Again I would not expect that the little season would be a hard time period
like 3.5 days would be.
Now there has been over 1900 years of time that has passed so I wonder if any
of those fellow servants have joined them yet and if so I wonder how many
they would be.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up,
and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more,
till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be
loosed a *LITTLE SEASON*

OK.

Revelation 20:4 Speaks of the Slain people that lived with Christ 1000
years!!!!!!Therefore since it's only the dead/slain that live with him
then the 1st resurection could already have occured and is only UP in
heaven.

I contend that when one becomes a believer in Jesus Christ they may go
through a sort of resurrection at that very time and even go through
a form of death and rebirth, as we much be reborn to follow Our Lord
Jesus.

Umm, I do not read you here.

Well I do understand from my reading of the Old Testament that there was not
to be another body count, but David did it anyway, Yes. I think he took
the body count because also David did not fully trust God and needed to be
sure of how big his army was.

OH for sure it is still growing and has been ever sense Jesus came out of the
Grave and Raptured the First Christian; Mary Magdala as her reward also for
pouring the perfume on him during the time Jesus washed the disciples feet.
It also looks like she was the only one to do Jesus' feet. The other
disciples apparently did not wash his feet.

It does reflect Rome's ten horns although 3 are supposidly replaced.

At which time were they replaced?
See Daniel 7:7-8
Daniel 7
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth
beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it
had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and
stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse
from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them
another little horn, before whom there were three of the first
horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were
eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Can you tell me what happened to Rome and where did it go at the start
of the "Papal Schism" or government or what ever it is and was called.

(I corrected the now to be no stopping of the total prophecy. . .)

I don't think Christ has been Annointed some would dispute his Baptism
by John but if you follow the sequence of Daniel's 70 weeks it's
expressed as the LAST event.

Indeed, Jesus is the anointed of God the Father to be the one that the
Old Testament was prophesying about.
The 70 weeks prophecy was a final timeline to usher in the Messiah.
And the last week was "EMPHASIZED" to tell the reader it was a special week
of the Prophecy.
It it was the last event of the prophecy, however there is an extenuation of
the insight of what would happen a while after the Prophecy was fulfilled
concerning the Newly rebuilt earthly city and earthly Temple.
The insight it is giving is it too would be destroyed shortly after its
purpose was fulfilled.

Daniel 9:24 ....and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal
up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Yes and it did seal up the prophecy so it would not stop until it's
fulfillment. Verse 24 was indeed fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

Correct and after their shall remain "1 week" of Daniel's 70 weeks
where the temple shall remain desolate and be trampled by the
people(GENTILES) of the Prince to Come (Satan/Dragon).

I think your missing my only point which is only that Daniel says the
temple is destroyed after the 62 weeks (the remaining 1 week is only
talked about later).

OH, OH, there is a line missing between your post and the post above.
I think you posted both of them? Mine did not appear inbetween for
some reason that is beyond our control at this point in time.
Hmm.

Daniel 9.26 And after ****threescore and two weeks**** shall Messiah
be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that
shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

I will point out now some of what is going on there;
A few verses before this one it say "seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks";
So it could talk about the last week and what would happen to Messiah during that
last week,
But this one in hopes that the train of though was not destroyed would
want to talk more about after that prophecy what would happen.
Even though the whole prophecy is talking about rebuilding the city that
The Babylonians sacked; it is also talking about the one that was to
be destroyed shortly after the prophecy was fulfilled.
It kind of looks like an oxymoron to Daniel. but This time sure does fill in
the timeline between the Old Testament (witness) and the New Testament (witness)
Right up to 34 AD.. Then it also extends the timeline to when the city was
totally destroyed again.
It does not give the date of the destruction though, or that would have extended
the time stated.
This also added to the mystery to the people who read the Book of daniel until
it was unsealed by The Book of REvelation when Revelation was finally understood
and published for us all to study and apply to the timeline of history.

snip>

In Revelation's the 2 Witnesses arrive in the MIDDLE of the WEEK
(after 3.5 days) are killed and then the Dragon continues further with
another 3.5 days = 1 week.

Is that what it really says?
I do not read it that way at all.

- - - - -

The Witnesses come back to life after 3.5 days= 2 x 3.5 = 1 week

That is about a totally different prophecy and the
3.5 days are within a larger prophecy of a few verses before that of the
1260 day time period, also the 42 months.

There's Gentiles in Daniel that destroy the temple. Revelation has
Gentiles for 3.5 days...most would believe they are one and the same.

It May have been if it was in the same prophecy but it is not it is about
a whole different prophecy and time period. it is with in a time period of
"THE GREAT TRIBULATION" not the destruction of Jerusalem, for it was
prophesied shortly after the earthly Jerusalem was destroyed.

(and the people(Rome's Gentiles) of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary

It did that in 70 AD. And there is no Prophecy that put a date on when
that would take place so we get the date from recorded History.

And the mid-week of the Witnesses related to mid-week of Daniel.

I do not think so, It is referring about the 2 witnesses and it is in a
timeline of a larger prophecy mentioned a few verses before it.
Revelation 11 ff.
Revelation 11
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel
stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar,
and them that worship therein.
- - - - - -
This temple is not the earthly temple.
This temple is * * * * temple of God * * * *.
This is talking about spiritual things, not that temple that was destroyed
in 70 ad and not again built by human hands.
- - - - - -
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure
it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall
they tread under foot forty and two months.
- - - - - - - -
See it is only the court is to be trampled on not the temple itself.
- - - - - - - -
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy
a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
- - - - - -
These 2 witnesses will be there for the whole time of the prophecy of
42 Prophetic months, or 1260 Prophetic days.
- - - - - -
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing
before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth,
and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in
this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of
their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and
to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
- - - - -
Rain not means no words coming from God to nurish the people of God
during that time. That is why we call it "THE DARK AGES". No learning
was going on, because the priests would not let any one stand up like
Gallalao.
Turn the waters to blood meant wars would be going on during that time.
- - - - -
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that
ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and
shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city,
which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was
crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall
see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their
dead bodies to be put in graves.
- - - - - -
This 3.5 years is some time during the 1260 Prophetic day they were
prophesying. It is not a part of the 70 weeks of years at all that is found
in DAniel 9.
- - - - - -

---------------
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the
oblation to cease
-----------

It is believe to be the false covenant with the Prince that shall come
as is in Daniel chapter 11's Antichrist:

It is not though. It was what HE (Jesus) was doing during his ministry form
the time He was baptized to his crucifixion.
When the Veil was torn in two when he died on the cross because he was that
daily sacrifice for all time.
And in the following 3.5 years He, Jesus, was helping his Apostles include the
Gentiles into the "NEW JERUSALEM" and setting together The Christian Church in
the world but not "of" the world.
That is all spelled out in the Book of "Acts of the Apostles"

-----------------
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall
not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably,
and obtain the kingdom by ********flatteries***********.

Umm. what book are you getting this from? It looks like it is Daniel 11?

22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before
him, and shall be broken; yea, also the ******prince of the
covenant*******
-------------------

Jesus The Messiah is the **************"PRINCE OF THE COVENANT"**************
in fact God made the old covenant with Abraham and the children of Israel
The new Covenant is to include not only the children of Israel one at a time
but also those that are not blood children of Israel, *******The Gentiles*********
The prince of the gentiles is not a prince with a capital P.
When talking about Jesus it is a CAPITAL Prince.

flatteries = false covenant until the mid-week arrives and his true
stripes are revealed (and he kills the 2 witnesses that come back to
life at the end of the week (3.5 days later).

Flatteries yes he is a master of intrigue and Lies.
and yes he, meaning many in a row or one after the other in that Schism
will attempt to get rid of the 2 witnesses but lo and behold they come back
to life much to his chagrin, and continue their Prophesying.
FYI, They are still prophesying today if you open up our bible and let them
speak.

the prince of the covenant is the prince of the people that shall come
which is the Antichrist (named as the Vile person above)

Also known as a "The Man of Sin". and was to be revealed some time to start
the 1260 prophetic Day Prophecy.
We have to rightly divide between the two princes mentioned in Daniel 9 prophecy.
It is easy to get them mixed up for sure for sure.
IN His Word,
Misty,
.

User: "Peter K."
Title: Re: Daniel may reveal the Rapture ALREADY occured or is occuring	01 May 2004 10:27:36 AM

Again I would not expect that the little season would be a hard time period
like 3.5 days would be.

Actually 365/4 = 91 days perhaps is the normal Age span of one man(or
Antichrist) = 91 years

OK it sounds reasonalbe, although I thought he sent a plague to Daniel
to reduce his strength (lower him = pride) and Daniel would not know
the count anymore (nor his strength).
I believe if you're the only one with a television and "compare
yourself" (measure yourself) to the others you can be filled up with
pride. But if everyone has a TV then you "look" like a fool for
thinking that way since everyone has one (SO by Daniel not knowing his
strength, he cannot measure, therefore cannot know if he has more
Televisions then others (then other nations).

Can you tell me what happened to Rome and where did it go at the start
of the "Papal Schism" or government or what ever it is and was called.

I think what is needed is to know exactly all the 10 horns to
determine if the Papal properly replaced the three....example Greece
was nerver mentioned as a horn by those documenting the prophecy which
perhaps it should...
Also in Revelations it's 10 horns (not seven) which are 10 kings that
share the kingdom with the BEAST for one hour although there is seven
heads and seven crowns.

Daniel 9:24 ....and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal
up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Yes and it did seal up the prophecy so it would not stop until it's
fulfillment. Verse 24 was indeed fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

I think 9:24 is sequential and therefore the *VERY LAST* thing to seal
up the vision is "only" by God to "anoint" Christ (the last so far
done to Christ in sequential: is crucifix, and ascention,...perhaps
somewhere towards the END of Revelations he is Anointed). The
Anointement I believe means: to anoint Christ as RULER over ALL and
under GOD which has not happened yet (nor everlasting righteousness).
(Even Satan was an Anointed Cherub in Ezechial, I believe means
appointed by God)

Daniel 9.26 And after ****threescore and two weeks**** shall Messiah
be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that
shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;

I will point out now some of what is going on there;
A few verses before this one it say "seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks";

Seven weeks are start of finish of the 1st temple

So it could talk about the last week and what would happen to Messiah during that last week,

Well to me it says :" After "62 weeks" all three: Christ, Jerusalem
and the Temple/Sanctuary are destroyed/killed." The remaining week has
not been mentioned yet.... (it comes later in 9.27)
-------------------------------------
Daniel remaining week I think you said Christ is the covenant and
removed the sacrifice.....but in contradicts Daniel Chap.11:
I agree with you it makes perfect sense if it's the covenant
(pact/marriage papers) with God .... but in Daniel 11 there could be a
false covenant through flatteries/peaceably/deceitfully that is broken
latter on (good chance it's the middle of the week).
9:27 "Christ or Antichrist" Has a Covenant for 1 week, in middle of
week removes sacrifice, and because of *ABOMINATION* the temple/city
is desolate, and until thee "DETERMINED CONSUMATION" will be *poured*
on these desolate.

Daniel 9.27 is exactly like Daniel 11.31 and 11.31 is CLEARLY that
ANTICHRIST and corrupts the covenant (through flatteries in 11.32):
Daniel 11.32 "And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he
corrupt by flatteries..."
11.31 The Antichrist who is working against the holy covenant: removes
the sacrifice, the SANCTUARY is *polluted*, and replaced by the
*ABOMINATION* that will make it desolate.
1. This SAME person continues until Chap.12 where he fights with
Micheal (12.1 And at that time shall Michael stand up....)
2. and then comes the FINAL JUDGEMENT Daniel 12:2 "And many of them
that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting
life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt"

The Witnesses come back to life after 3.5 days= 2 x 3.5 = 1 week

That is about a totally different prophecy and the
3.5 days are within a larger prophecy of a few verses before that of the
1260 day time period, also the 42 months.

You interpretation is sound and reasonable but also a popular believe
is it's the Antichrist who kills the Witnesses who are in the
Sanctuary for 3.5 days therefore at the Mid-Week (therefore the
Sanctuary is destroyed) and then... the remaining 3.5 days belong to
the Antichrist where he magnifies himself as in Daniel 11 after the
sanctuary is destroyed.

- - - - - -
This temple is not the earthly temple.
This temple is * * * * temple of God * * * *.
This is talking about spiritual things, not that temple that was destroyed
in 70 ad and not again built by human hands.
- - - - - -

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure
it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall
they tread under foot forty and two months.

- - - - - - - -
See it is only the court is to be trampled on not the temple itself.
- - - - - - - -

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy
a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Sounds good also but the temple many believe is the new temple in
Jerusalem where a FALSE covenant with the Antichrist for 1 week, he
rules outside the temple (gentiles) and permits them (and 2 witnesses)
to sacrifice for the first 3.5 days then the 2 witnesses and temple
are gone and Antichrist rules for 3.5 days.
.

User: "Misty"