Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke'



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Topic: Science > Prophecies-Of-Nostradamus
User: ""
Date: 02 Jun 2005 06:58:24 AM
Object: Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4598955.stm?top
Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke'

The diagram appears in an undated report about nuclear weapons work in
Nazi Germany
Historians working in Germany and the US claim to have found a
60-year-old diagram showing a Nazi nuclear bomb.
It is the only known drawing of a "nuke" made by Nazi experts and
appears in a report held by a private archive.
The researchers who brought it to light say the drawing is a rough
schematic and does not imply the Nazis built, or were close to
building, an atomic bomb.
But a detail in the report hints some Nazi scientists may have been
closer to that goal than was previously believed.
The Nazis were far away from a 'classic' atomic bomb. But they hoped
to combine a 'mini-nuke' with a rocket
Rainer Karlsch
The report containing the diagram is undated, but the researchers
claim the evidence points to it being produced immediately after the
end of the war in Europe. It deals with the work of German nuclear
scientists during the war and lacks a title page, so there is no
evidence of who composed it.
One historian behind the discovery, Rainer Karlsch, caused a storm of
controversy earlier this year when he claimed to have uncovered
evidence the Nazis successfully tested a primitive nuclear device in
the last days of WWII. A number of historians rejected the claim.
The drawing is published in an article written for Physics World
magazine by Karlsch and Mark Walker, professor of history at Union
College in Schenectady, US.
'Mini-nuke'
The newly uncovered document was discovered after the publication of
Karlsch's book, Hitlers Bombe (Hitler's Bomb), in which he made the
nuclear test claim.
"The Nazis were far away from a 'classic' atomic bomb. But they hoped
to combine a "mini-nuke" with a rocket," Dr Karlsch told the BBC News
website.
"The military believed they needed around six months more to bring the
new weapon into action. But the scientists knew better how difficult
it was to get the enriched uranium required."
The head of Nazi Germany's nuclear energy programme was the physicist
Werner Heisenberg. Though he was highly accomplished in other areas of
physics, Heisenberg failed to understand a key aspect of nuclear
fission chain reactions.
Heisenberg's uncertainty
Some researchers say this led him to overestimate the amount of
uranium - the so-called fissile material - required to build a nuclear
bomb.

Hitler was desperate for weapons that would turn the tide of the war
However, the German report contains an estimate of slightly more than
5kg for the critical mass of a plutonium bomb. This is comparatively
close to the real figure and may suggest some Nazi scientists had a
better grasp of nuclear fission than Heisenberg.
Professor Paul Lawrence Rose of Pennsylvania State University, US, and
author of a 1998 book about the German uranium programme, said he had
no reason to believe the report was not genuine, but was dubious about
the significance of the critical mass detail.
"Though it's wonderful to find the 5kg figure written on the document,
one has to be sceptical about the rationale for it. Even if it's true
and [some scientists] did understand it, Heisenberg's group wouldn't
have accepted it," Rose told the BBC News website.
He further speculated it was possible the author arrived at this
figure by reading the Smyth Report into the development of the US
atomic bomb, which was published in July 1945. But Karlsch and Walker
reject this claim.
Bombshell claim
In Hitlers Bombe, Dr Karlsch suggests a team of scientists directed by
the physicist Kurt Diebner, which was in competition with Heisenberg's
group, tested a primitive nuclear device in Thuringia, eastern
Germany, in March 1945.
Rose says that this is unlikely. Transcripts of conversations taped by
MI6 when the scientists were held captive in England after the war
show Diebner lacked the knowledge to have done this, he claims.
"Karlsch revealed some very important details in his book, but I can't
go along with the picture he constructs with those details - of a Nazi
nuclear test," said Professor Dieter Hoffmann of the Max Planck
Institute for the History of Science in Berlin.
But in their Physics World article, Karlsch and Walker point to
evidence of innovations made by Diebner's team, including a nuclear
reactor design superior to that produced by Heisenberg's group.
"[Diebner] got the research papers from all other groups and he could
control the information flux. Only a few scientists around Diebner
knew about his bomb project. Heisenberg was not aware of it," Dr
Karlsch explained.

.

User: "Aidan"

Title: Re: Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke' 02 Jun 2005 08:37:50 AM
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------020905070305070305060203
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
itwill@happen.com wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4598955.stm?top
Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke'

The diagram appears in an undated report about nuclear weapons work in
Nazi Germany

Historians working in Germany and the US claim to have found a
60-year-old diagram showing a Nazi nuclear bomb.
It is the only known drawing of a "nuke" made by Nazi experts and
appears in a report held by a private archive.

The researchers who brought it to light say the drawing is a rough
schematic and does not imply the Nazis built, or were close to
building, an atomic bomb.

But a detail in the report hints some Nazi scientists may have been
closer to that goal than was previously believed.

The Nazis were far away from a 'classic' atomic bomb. But they hoped
to combine a 'mini-nuke' with a rocket

Rainer Karlsch

The report containing the diagram is undated, but the researchers
claim the evidence points to it being produced immediately after the
end of the war in Europe. It deals with the work of German nuclear
scientists during the war and lacks a title page, so there is no
evidence of who composed it.

One historian behind the discovery, Rainer Karlsch, caused a storm of
controversy earlier this year when he claimed to have uncovered
evidence the Nazis successfully tested a primitive nuclear device in
the last days of WWII. A number of historians rejected the claim.

The drawing is published in an article written for Physics World
magazine by Karlsch and Mark Walker, professor of history at Union
College in Schenectady, US.

'Mini-nuke'

The newly uncovered document was discovered after the publication of
Karlsch's book, Hitlers Bombe (Hitler's Bomb), in which he made the
nuclear test claim.

"The Nazis were far away from a 'classic' atomic bomb. But they hoped
to combine a "mini-nuke" with a rocket," Dr Karlsch told the BBC News
website.

"The military believed they needed around six months more to bring the
new weapon into action. But the scientists knew better how difficult
it was to get the enriched uranium required."

The head of Nazi Germany's nuclear energy programme was the physicist
Werner Heisenberg. Though he was highly accomplished in other areas of
physics, Heisenberg failed to understand a key aspect of nuclear
fission chain reactions.

Heisenberg's uncertainty

Some researchers say this led him to overestimate the amount of
uranium - the so-called fissile material - required to build a nuclear
bomb.


Hitler was desperate for weapons that would turn the tide of the war
However, the German report contains an estimate of slightly more than
5kg for the critical mass of a plutonium bomb. This is comparatively
close to the real figure and may suggest some Nazi scientists had a
better grasp of nuclear fission than Heisenberg.

Professor Paul Lawrence Rose of Pennsylvania State University, US, and
author of a 1998 book about the German uranium programme, said he had
no reason to believe the report was not genuine, but was dubious about
the significance of the critical mass detail.

"Though it's wonderful to find the 5kg figure written on the document,
one has to be sceptical about the rationale for it. Even if it's true
and [some scientists] did understand it, Heisenberg's group wouldn't
have accepted it," Rose told the BBC News website.

He further speculated it was possible the author arrived at this
figure by reading the Smyth Report into the development of the US
atomic bomb, which was published in July 1945. But Karlsch and Walker
reject this claim.

Bombshell claim

In Hitlers Bombe, Dr Karlsch suggests a team of scientists directed by
the physicist Kurt Diebner, which was in competition with Heisenberg's
group, tested a primitive nuclear device in Thuringia, eastern
Germany, in March 1945.

Rose says that this is unlikely. Transcripts of conversations taped by
MI6 when the scientists were held captive in England after the war
show Diebner lacked the knowledge to have done this, he claims.

"Karlsch revealed some very important details in his book, but I can't
go along with the picture he constructs with those details - of a Nazi
nuclear test," said Professor Dieter Hoffmann of the Max Planck
Institute for the History of Science in Berlin.

But in their Physics World article, Karlsch and Walker point to
evidence of innovations made by Diebner's team, including a nuclear
reactor design superior to that produced by Heisenberg's group.

"[Diebner] got the research papers from all other groups and he could
control the information flux. Only a few scientists around Diebner
knew about his bomb project. Heisenberg was not aware of it," Dr
Karlsch explained.

Here's some nice info I found on slashdot about this:
"First, if you look at the diagram
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/sci_nat_enl_1117632780/img/1.jpg>,
you'll see that it plainly shows a plutonium core. Problem, Nazi Germany
did not have an operational nuclear reactor. Thus they had no ability to
create kilograms of plutonium. This makes the diagram a pipe-dream at best.
Second, if you look at the diagram you'll see that it is initiated a
gun-type trigger, something that is impossible for Pu. This makes the
diagram look like the work of someone that doesn't know what they are
doing. Maybe this was deliberate (though rather obvious) misinformation
by a scientist who didn't want Hitler to get the bomb.
Third, it is undated, and unnamed, from an unknown source. Not worth
even reading.
In any event, Germany had no means of effectively delivering such a
weapon. They lacked the heavy aircraft which the USA used. The V2 rocket
only had a fraction of the payload capacity needed. The best they could
have done is load it on a cargo vessel and attempt to sail into
someone's harbour. Or leave it behind in a city like Paris after
retreating. Neither of which would have been terribly impressive, since
they would be ground-bursts and not much different from a few tons of
dynamite."
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<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:itwill@happen.com">itwill@happen.com</a> wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid1117713518.bd243f125d49acef194597326b7204be@teranews"
type="cite">
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4598955.stm?top">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4598955.stm?top</a>
Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke'

The diagram appears in an undated report about nuclear weapons work in
Nazi Germany
Historians working in Germany and the US claim to have found a
60-year-old diagram showing a Nazi nuclear bomb.
It is the only known drawing of a "nuke" made by Nazi experts and
appears in a report held by a private archive.
The researchers who brought it to light say the drawing is a rough
schematic and does not imply the Nazis built, or were close to
building, an atomic bomb.
But a detail in the report hints some Nazi scientists may have been
closer to that goal than was previously believed.
The Nazis were far away from a 'classic' atomic bomb. But they hoped
to combine a 'mini-nuke' with a rocket
Rainer Karlsch
The report containing the diagram is undated, but the researchers
claim the evidence points to it being produced immediately after the
end of the war in Europe. It deals with the work of German nuclear
scientists during the war and lacks a title page, so there is no
evidence of who composed it.
One historian behind the discovery, Rainer Karlsch, caused a storm of
controversy earlier this year when he claimed to have uncovered
evidence the Nazis successfully tested a primitive nuclear device in
the last days of WWII. A number of historians rejected the claim.
The drawing is published in an article written for Physics World
magazine by Karlsch and Mark Walker, professor of history at Union
College in Schenectady, US.
'Mini-nuke'
The newly uncovered document was discovered after the publication of
Karlsch's book, Hitlers Bombe (Hitler's Bomb), in which he made the
nuclear test claim.
"The Nazis were far away from a 'classic' atomic bomb. But they hoped
to combine a "mini-nuke" with a rocket," Dr Karlsch told the BBC News
website.
"The military believed they needed around six months more to bring the
new weapon into action. But the scientists knew better how difficult
it was to get the enriched uranium required."
The head of Nazi Germany's nuclear energy programme was the physicist
Werner Heisenberg. Though he was highly accomplished in other areas of
physics, Heisenberg failed to understand a key aspect of nuclear
fission chain reactions.
Heisenberg's uncertainty
Some researchers say this led him to overestimate the amount of
uranium - the so-called fissile material - required to build a nuclear
bomb.

Hitler was desperate for weapons that would turn the tide of the war
However, the German report contains an estimate of slightly more than
5kg for the critical mass of a plutonium bomb. This is comparatively
close to the real figure and may suggest some Nazi scientists had a
better grasp of nuclear fission than Heisenberg.
Professor Paul Lawrence Rose of Pennsylvania State University, US, and
author of a 1998 book about the German uranium programme, said he had
no reason to believe the report was not genuine, but was dubious about
the significance of the critical mass detail.
"Though it's wonderful to find the 5kg figure written on the document,
one has to be sceptical about the rationale for it. Even if it's true
and [some scientists] did understand it, Heisenberg's group wouldn't
have accepted it," Rose told the BBC News website.
He further speculated it was possible the author arrived at this
figure by reading the Smyth Report into the development of the US
atomic bomb, which was published in July 1945. But Karlsch and Walker
reject this claim.
Bombshell claim
In Hitlers Bombe, Dr Karlsch suggests a team of scientists directed by
the physicist Kurt Diebner, which was in competition with Heisenberg's
group, tested a primitive nuclear device in Thuringia, eastern
Germany, in March 1945.
Rose says that this is unlikely. Transcripts of conversations taped by
MI6 when the scientists were held captive in England after the war
show Diebner lacked the knowledge to have done this, he claims.
"Karlsch revealed some very important details in his book, but I can't
go along with the picture he constructs with those details - of a Nazi
nuclear test," said Professor Dieter Hoffmann of the Max Planck
Institute for the History of Science in Berlin.
But in their Physics World article, Karlsch and Walker point to
evidence of innovations made by Diebner's team, including a nuclear
reactor design superior to that produced by Heisenberg's group.
"[Diebner] got the research papers from all other groups and he could
control the information flux. Only a few scientists around Diebner
knew about his bomb project. Heisenberg was not aware of it," Dr
Karlsch explained. </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Here's some nice info I found on slashdot about this:<br>
<br>
"First, if you look at <a
href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/sci_nat_enl_1117632780/img/1.jpg"
title="bbc.co.uk">the diagram</a>,
you'll see that it plainly shows a plutonium core. Problem, Nazi
Germany did not have an operational nuclear reactor. Thus they had no
ability to create kilograms of plutonium. This makes the diagram a
pipe-dream at best.
<p>Second, if you look at the diagram you'll see that it is initiated
a gun-type trigger, something that is impossible for Pu. This makes the
diagram look like the work of someone that doesn't know what they are
doing. Maybe this was deliberate (though rather obvious) misinformation
by a scientist who didn't want Hitler to get the bomb.
</p>
<p>Third, it is undated, and unnamed, from an unknown source. Not worth
even reading.
</p>
<p>In any event, Germany had no means of effectively delivering
such a weapon. They lacked the heavy aircraft which the USA used. The
V2 rocket only had a fraction of the payload capacity needed. The best
they could have done is load it on a cargo vessel and attempt to sail
into someone's harbour. Or leave it behind in a city like Paris after
retreating. Neither of which would have been terribly impressive, since
they would be ground-bursts and not much different from a few tons of
dynamite."<br>
<br>
</p>
</body>
</html>
--------------020905070305070305060203--
.
User: "tw"

Title: Re: Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke' 02 Jun 2005 08:46:09 AM

"Aidan" <nospam.aidan@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:newscache$25nghi$zi1$1@titan.linknet.com.au...

Maybe this was deliberate (though rather obvious) misinformation by a

scientist who didn't want Hitler to get the bomb.
Heisenberg tried to pull that exact line post war - "I didn't REALLY ***** my
calculations up, I just didn't want Hitler to have the bomb". Niels Bohr
disagreed with this analysis, having worked alongside Heisenberg pre-war at
Copenhagen University when he (Heisenberg) was rather enthusiastic about the
idea..
Bohr was smuggled to Sweden and thence to the UK when the Hun looked like
they might arrest him and make him work on a Nazi bomb, interesting story.
.

User: ""

Title: Re: Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke' 03 Jun 2005 08:11:31 AM
Aiden wrote:

Or leave it behind in a city like Paris after
retreating. Neither of which would have been terribly impressive, since
they would be ground-bursts and not much different from a few tons of
dynamite."

I snipped the rest, all one needs to know is this last part which is
laughable.
Tony
.
User: "Aidan"

Title: Re: Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke' 03 Jun 2005 04:53:19 PM
wrote:

Aiden wrote:



Or leave it behind in a city like Paris after
retreating. Neither of which would have been terribly impressive, since
they would be ground-bursts and not much different from a few tons of
dynamite."



I snipped the rest, all one needs to know is this last part which is
laughable.

Tony


Oh, you mean those physics arguments, where it's said a gun-type trigger
doesn't work with a Pu core? Yes, it is laughable that you conveniently
ignore that part.
Do some reading about nuclear weapon some time Tone.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke' 04 Jun 2005 10:58:55 AM
Aiden wrote:

tonyz2001@aol.com wrote:

Aiden wrote:



Or leave it behind in a city like Paris after
retreating. Neither of which would have been terribly impressive, since
they would be ground-bursts and not much different from a few tons of
dynamite."



I snipped the rest, all one needs to know is this last part which is
laughable.

Tony

Oh, you mean those physics arguments

No, the part about a ground burst being no more powerful than a few
tons of dynamite.
Tony
.
User: "Aidan"

Title: Re: Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke' 04 Jun 2005 10:33:20 PM
wrote:

Aiden wrote:



wrote:



Aiden wrote:





Or leave it behind in a city like Paris after
retreating. Neither of which would have been terribly impressive, since
they would be ground-bursts and not much different from a few tons of
dynamite."




I snipped the rest, all one needs to know is this last part which is
laughable.

Tony





Oh, you mean those physics arguments



No, the part about a ground burst being no more powerful than a few
tons of dynamite.

Tony


So you don't feel that the physical impossibility, of a nuclear weapon
using a gun-type trigger with a Pu core, is note worthy? Yes, you are
quite laughable.
Given that this diagram *cannot* work as a conventional nuclear weapon,
the effect of detonating it would be similar to that of "a few tons of
dynamite". Get it now, dumb *****?
.





User: "tw"

Title: Re: Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke' 02 Jun 2005 07:04:39 AM
You wished they'd succeeded do you, Bitchtits? Defeating "bolshevism" and
guarding the Fatherland against the asiatic hordes seem to be two of the
many things you and Uncle Adolf have in common...
<itwill@happen.com> wrote in message
news:1117713518.bd243f125d49acef194597326b7204be@teranews...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4598955.stm?top
Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke'

The diagram appears in an undated report about nuclear weapons work in
Nazi Germany

Historians working in Germany and the US claim to have found a
60-year-old diagram showing a Nazi nuclear bomb.
It is the only known drawing of a "nuke" made by Nazi experts and
appears in a report held by a private archive.

The researchers who brought it to light say the drawing is a rough
schematic and does not imply the Nazis built, or were close to
building, an atomic bomb.

But a detail in the report hints some Nazi scientists may have been
closer to that goal than was previously believed.

The Nazis were far away from a 'classic' atomic bomb. But they hoped
to combine a 'mini-nuke' with a rocket

Rainer Karlsch

The report containing the diagram is undated, but the researchers
claim the evidence points to it being produced immediately after the
end of the war in Europe. It deals with the work of German nuclear
scientists during the war and lacks a title page, so there is no
evidence of who composed it.

One historian behind the discovery, Rainer Karlsch, caused a storm of
controversy earlier this year when he claimed to have uncovered
evidence the Nazis successfully tested a primitive nuclear device in
the last days of WWII. A number of historians rejected the claim.

The drawing is published in an article written for Physics World
magazine by Karlsch and Mark Walker, professor of history at Union
College in Schenectady, US.

'Mini-nuke'

The newly uncovered document was discovered after the publication of
Karlsch's book, Hitlers Bombe (Hitler's Bomb), in which he made the
nuclear test claim.

"The Nazis were far away from a 'classic' atomic bomb. But they hoped
to combine a "mini-nuke" with a rocket," Dr Karlsch told the BBC News
website.

"The military believed they needed around six months more to bring the
new weapon into action. But the scientists knew better how difficult
it was to get the enriched uranium required."

The head of Nazi Germany's nuclear energy programme was the physicist
Werner Heisenberg. Though he was highly accomplished in other areas of
physics, Heisenberg failed to understand a key aspect of nuclear
fission chain reactions.

Heisenberg's uncertainty

Some researchers say this led him to overestimate the amount of
uranium - the so-called fissile material - required to build a nuclear
bomb.


Hitler was desperate for weapons that would turn the tide of the war
However, the German report contains an estimate of slightly more than
5kg for the critical mass of a plutonium bomb. This is comparatively
close to the real figure and may suggest some Nazi scientists had a
better grasp of nuclear fission than Heisenberg.

Professor Paul Lawrence Rose of Pennsylvania State University, US, and
author of a 1998 book about the German uranium programme, said he had
no reason to believe the report was not genuine, but was dubious about
the significance of the critical mass detail.

"Though it's wonderful to find the 5kg figure written on the document,
one has to be sceptical about the rationale for it. Even if it's true
and [some scientists] did understand it, Heisenberg's group wouldn't
have accepted it," Rose told the BBC News website.

He further speculated it was possible the author arrived at this
figure by reading the Smyth Report into the development of the US
atomic bomb, which was published in July 1945. But Karlsch and Walker
reject this claim.

Bombshell claim

In Hitlers Bombe, Dr Karlsch suggests a team of scientists directed by
the physicist Kurt Diebner, which was in competition with Heisenberg's
group, tested a primitive nuclear device in Thuringia, eastern
Germany, in March 1945.

Rose says that this is unlikely. Transcripts of conversations taped by
MI6 when the scientists were held captive in England after the war
show Diebner lacked the knowledge to have done this, he claims.

"Karlsch revealed some very important details in his book, but I can't
go along with the picture he constructs with those details - of a Nazi
nuclear test," said Professor Dieter Hoffmann of the Max Planck
Institute for the History of Science in Berlin.

But in their Physics World article, Karlsch and Walker point to
evidence of innovations made by Diebner's team, including a nuclear
reactor design superior to that produced by Heisenberg's group.

"[Diebner] got the research papers from all other groups and he could
control the information flux. Only a few scientists around Diebner
knew about his bomb project. Heisenberg was not aware of it," Dr
Karlsch explained.





.
User: ""

Title: Re: Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke' 03 Jun 2005 08:07:19 AM
Tommy Boy wrote:

You wished they'd succeeded do you, Bitchtits? Defeating "bolshevism" and
guarding the Fatherland against the asiatic hordes seem to be two of the
many things you and Uncle Adolf have in common...

What do the people at Lund have to say about your abuse of their
computers?
Tony
.



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