http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=572&a=351097&previousRenderType=6
(article in swedish)
.
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
09 Dec 2004 04:32:08 AM |
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"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:spVtd.39162$l%5.1495452@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:x4Otd.35695$dC3.907707@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6qJtd.31351$l%5.1239167@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Q8ttd.23434$l%5.1016432@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bdrtd.30466$dC3.632741@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:Zmktd.123663$dP1.439184@newsc.telia.net...
"tw" <no@no.com> skrev i meddelandet
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"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:5Cjtd.123654$dP1.439072@newsc.telia.net...
In Expressen today, there's an article about young women from
certain
cultures getting killed by their fathers for loving the wrong
man.
How has that cause the "ghettoisation" , violence or lack of
jobs
you
were
complaining about in Malmö?
That is a good example of what I'm talking about:
No it isn't - either that or you are confused as to exactly what
you
ARE
talking about. See above.
Some people don't want to
participate in our society; but they sure would like to set
the
rules.
Maybe they would, but how are they doing so far? Can you point
me
toward
any
groups lobbying for "honour" killings to be made legal? Did you
read
the
news today? There's a conference being held in Sweden to condemn
"honour"
killings. I can't imagine, for even one second, that anyone is
going
to
suggest it should be permitted in the interests of cultural
diversity..
Oh... The ghettos are sub-societies outside the real society.
That's
the
point.
Of course nobody (I think) really wants to kill his own daughter,
but
it's
in the culture. It was just an example.
tw should know all about it. I have posted numerous articles on
the
subject. However, he continues to minimize it. (I just read
another
book
by a young Jordanian woman in exile about the death of her best
friend
at
the hands of the friend's father. All because she snuck out to
(chastely)
date a Christian boy. The friend is in exile because she fears for
her
own
life for arranging the meetings. the royalties from the book go to
a
charity working to erradicate honour killings). You will have a
hard
time
convincing tw, though!
What's the book called?
"Honor Lost---Love and Death in Modern-Day Jordan" by Norma Khouri.
Thank you. I haven't read it but looked at some reviews and an interview
with
Khouri. I reminds me of another book (that I have read): Never Without
My
Daughter. You've surely seen the movie (but of you haven't don't worry,
it's
a piece of trash), It is rerun at least 4-5 times a year by most cable
TV
channels, everytime there is a little friction with Iran.
Back to this one, honour killings are far less common than the
arrangement
of
books in the suburban bookstores would suggest. Such killings are also
not
merely the preserve of Muslims. In the West we prefer to call them by
the
delicate euphemism of "crimes of passion". However, like the old news
adage
that what bleeds should lead, publishers seem to prefer books that offer
a
sensational-if not entirely accurate-view of the Middle East to books
that
reflect more nuanced and balanced views of what is a most complex and
heterogenous cultural millieu. With Muslim-Western relations
characterised
by
mutual misunderstandings and ignorance, such books-whether penned by
Musli
ms
or non-Muslims-feed the falsehood that lies at the heart of so many of
the
problems between the two civilizations.
For this reason, the real tragedy is not that this book and many others
like
it are basically a very distorted portrait of reality; the real tragedy
is
that so many of us find them so believable.
End of book review;-)
Stat.
You have not read the book...and yet you are arrogant enough to judge it?
It is not nobel-quality literature by any means, but this woman has lived
it
and wrote it as a tribute to her best friend, who was killed by her father
in collusion with her brothers.
So it is an emotional work, not a rational one. How surprising.
It is not a "crime of passion"! A crine of passion is when someone comes
home and finds their spouse in bed with someone else and murders without
thought.
How do you know it's without thought? Sounds like the two are really quite
comparable (and inexcusable) really..
Honour killings are planned executions.
Yes, planned executions are disgusting arent they? Where do you stand on the
death penalty again?
And they are much MORE
common than the media would have us believe.
How do you know that?
This latest book is not my only source of information on the subject. Far
from it.
What other anecdotal source do you use then?
.
|
|
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| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
09 Dec 2004 05:09:57 PM |
|
|
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:cp99bv$cnn$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:spVtd.39162$l%5.1495452@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:x4Otd.35695$dC3.907707@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6qJtd.31351$l%5.1239167@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Q8ttd.23434$l%5.1016432@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bdrtd.30466$dC3.632741@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:Zmktd.123663$dP1.439184@newsc.telia.net...
"tw" <no@no.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:cp4h90$lm$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:5Cjtd.123654$dP1.439072@newsc.telia.net...
In Expressen today, there's an article about young women
from
certain
cultures getting killed by their fathers for loving the
wrong
man.
How has that cause the "ghettoisation" , violence or lack of
jobs
you
were
complaining about in Malmö?
That is a good example of what I'm talking about:
No it isn't - either that or you are confused as to exactly
what
you
ARE
talking about. See above.
Some people don't want to
participate in our society; but they sure would like to set
the
rules.
Maybe they would, but how are they doing so far? Can you point
me
toward
any
groups lobbying for "honour" killings to be made legal? Did
you
read
the
news today? There's a conference being held in Sweden to
condemn
"honour"
killings. I can't imagine, for even one second, that anyone is
going
to
suggest it should be permitted in the interests of cultural
diversity..
Oh... The ghettos are sub-societies outside the real society.
That's
the
point.
Of course nobody (I think) really wants to kill his own
daughter,
but
it's
in the culture. It was just an example.
tw should know all about it. I have posted numerous articles on
the
subject. However, he continues to minimize it. (I just read
another
book
by a young Jordanian woman in exile about the death of her best
friend
at
the hands of the friend's father. All because she snuck out to
(chastely)
date a Christian boy. The friend is in exile because she fears
for
her
own
life for arranging the meetings. the royalties from the book go
to
a
charity working to erradicate honour killings). You will have a
hard
time
convincing tw, though!
What's the book called?
"Honor Lost---Love and Death in Modern-Day Jordan" by Norma Khouri.
Thank you. I haven't read it but looked at some reviews and an
interview
with
Khouri. I reminds me of another book (that I have read): Never Without
My
Daughter. You've surely seen the movie (but of you haven't don't
worry,
it's
a piece of trash), It is rerun at least 4-5 times a year by most cable
TV
channels, everytime there is a little friction with Iran.
Back to this one, honour killings are far less common than the
arrangement
of
books in the suburban bookstores would suggest. Such killings are also
not
merely the preserve of Muslims. In the West we prefer to call them by
the
delicate euphemism of "crimes of passion". However, like the old news
adage
that what bleeds should lead, publishers seem to prefer books that
offer
a
sensational-if not entirely accurate-view of the Middle East to books
that
reflect more nuanced and balanced views of what is a most complex and
heterogenous cultural millieu. With Muslim-Western relations
characterised
by
mutual misunderstandings and ignorance, such books-whether penned by
Musli
ms
or non-Muslims-feed the falsehood that lies at the heart of so many of
the
problems between the two civilizations.
For this reason, the real tragedy is not that this book and many
others
like
it are basically a very distorted portrait of reality; the real
tragedy
is
that so many of us find them so believable.
End of book review;-)
Stat.
You have not read the book...and yet you are arrogant enough to judge
it?
It is not nobel-quality literature by any means, but this woman has
lived
it
and wrote it as a tribute to her best friend, who was killed by her
father
in collusion with her brothers.
So it is an emotional work, not a rational one. How surprising.
So what? It is emotional about the friend and the things they did together,
but interspersed are statiscs and facts about Jordanian society. (Not
footnoted, but the sources are usually mentioned)
It is not a "crime of passion"! A crine of passion is when someone
comes
home and finds their spouse in bed with someone else and murders without
thought.
How do you know it's without thought? Sounds like the two are really quite
comparable (and inexcusable) really..
To me, that is what a crime of passion is...that is where the passion comes
in. If you know your partner is having an affair and you plot to kill them,
that is not a crime of passion, either.
Honour killings are planned executions.
Yes, planned executions are disgusting arent they? Where do you stand on
the
death penalty again?
I cry no tears for the guilty. These girls and women are guilty of nothing
that deserves death.
And they are much MORE
common than the media would have us believe.
How do you know that?
This latest book is not my only source of information on the subject.
Far
from it.
What other anecdotal source do you use then?
I gave you a list of books some time ago. Look it up.
Jane
.
|
|
|
| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
10 Dec 2004 03:37:08 AM |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2X4ud.49927$l%5.1642438@news20.bellglobal.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:cp99bv$cnn$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:spVtd.39162$l%5.1495452@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:x4Otd.35695$dC3.907707@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6qJtd.31351$l%5.1239167@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Q8ttd.23434$l%5.1016432@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bdrtd.30466$dC3.632741@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:Zmktd.123663$dP1.439184@newsc.telia.net...
"tw" <no@no.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:cp4h90$lm$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:5Cjtd.123654$dP1.439072@newsc.telia.net...
In Expressen today, there's an article about young women
from
certain
cultures getting killed by their fathers for loving the
wrong
man.
How has that cause the "ghettoisation" , violence or lack of
jobs
you
were
complaining about in Malmö?
That is a good example of what I'm talking about:
No it isn't - either that or you are confused as to exactly
what
you
ARE
talking about. See above.
Some people don't want to
participate in our society; but they sure would like to
set
the
rules.
Maybe they would, but how are they doing so far? Can you
point
me
toward
any
groups lobbying for "honour" killings to be made legal? Did
you
read
the
news today? There's a conference being held in Sweden to
condemn
"honour"
killings. I can't imagine, for even one second, that anyone
is
going
to
suggest it should be permitted in the interests of cultural
diversity..
Oh... The ghettos are sub-societies outside the real society.
That's
the
point.
Of course nobody (I think) really wants to kill his own
daughter,
but
it's
in the culture. It was just an example.
tw should know all about it. I have posted numerous articles
on
the
subject. However, he continues to minimize it. (I just read
another
book
by a young Jordanian woman in exile about the death of her best
friend
at
the hands of the friend's father. All because she snuck out to
(chastely)
date a Christian boy. The friend is in exile because she fears
for
her
own
life for arranging the meetings. the royalties from the book
go
to
a
charity working to erradicate honour killings). You will have
a
hard
time
convincing tw, though!
What's the book called?
"Honor Lost---Love and Death in Modern-Day Jordan" by Norma
Khouri.
Thank you. I haven't read it but looked at some reviews and an
interview
with
Khouri. I reminds me of another book (that I have read): Never
Without
My
Daughter. You've surely seen the movie (but of you haven't don't
worry,
it's
a piece of trash), It is rerun at least 4-5 times a year by most
cable
TV
channels, everytime there is a little friction with Iran.
Back to this one, honour killings are far less common than the
arrangement
of
books in the suburban bookstores would suggest. Such killings are
also
not
merely the preserve of Muslims. In the West we prefer to call them
by
the
delicate euphemism of "crimes of passion". However, like the old
news
adage
that what bleeds should lead, publishers seem to prefer books that
offer
a
sensational-if not entirely accurate-view of the Middle East to
books
that
reflect more nuanced and balanced views of what is a most complex
and
heterogenous cultural millieu. With Muslim-Western relations
characterised
by
mutual misunderstandings and ignorance, such books-whether penned by
Musli
ms
or non-Muslims-feed the falsehood that lies at the heart of so many
of
the
problems between the two civilizations.
For this reason, the real tragedy is not that this book and many
others
like
it are basically a very distorted portrait of reality; the real
tragedy
is
that so many of us find them so believable.
End of book review;-)
Stat.
You have not read the book...and yet you are arrogant enough to judge
it?
It is not nobel-quality literature by any means, but this woman has
lived
it
and wrote it as a tribute to her best friend, who was killed by her
father
in collusion with her brothers.
So it is an emotional work, not a rational one. How surprising.
So what?
So it shouldn't be used as a basis for investigating how widespread the
problem is. It is not a scientific study.
It is emotional about the friend and the things they did together,
but interspersed are statiscs and facts about Jordanian society. (Not
footnoted, but the sources are usually mentioned)
See above.
It is not a "crime of passion"! A crine of passion is when someone
comes
home and finds their spouse in bed with someone else and murders
without
thought.
How do you know it's without thought? Sounds like the two are really
quite
comparable (and inexcusable) really..
To me, that is what a crime of passion is...that is where the passion
comes
in. If you know your partner is having an affair and you plot to kill
them,
that is not a crime of passion, either.
Under law, apparently, it is.
Honour killings are planned executions.
Yes, planned executions are disgusting arent they? Where do you stand on
the
death penalty again?
I cry no tears for the guilty.
...Which is exactly what the carrier-out of an honour killing woudl say. In
their eyes the victim is guilty.
BTW, are you 100% sure that 100% of people who get the death penalty are
definitely guilty?
These girls and women are guilty of nothing
that deserves death.
Well, you and I might feel that way but other people obviously don't. I
mean, I don't think a murderer deserves to die, but you do. See?
And they are much MORE
common than the media would have us believe.
How do you know that?
This latest book is not my only source of information on the subject.
Far
from it.
What other anecdotal source do you use then?
I gave you a list of books some time ago. Look it up.
So you agree your sources are anecdotal?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
10 Dec 2004 04:03:39 AM |
|
|
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:cpbqgp$l19$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2X4ud.49927$l%5.1642438@news20.bellglobal.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:cp99bv$cnn$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:spVtd.39162$l%5.1495452@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:x4Otd.35695$dC3.907707@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6qJtd.31351$l%5.1239167@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Q8ttd.23434$l%5.1016432@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bdrtd.30466$dC3.632741@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:Zmktd.123663$dP1.439184@newsc.telia.net...
"tw" <no@no.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:cp4h90$lm$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:5Cjtd.123654$dP1.439072@newsc.telia.net...
In Expressen today, there's an article about young women
from
certain
cultures getting killed by their fathers for loving the
wrong
man.
How has that cause the "ghettoisation" , violence or lack
of
jobs
you
were
complaining about in Malmö?
That is a good example of what I'm talking about:
No it isn't - either that or you are confused as to
exactly
what
you
ARE
talking about. See above.
Some people don't want to
participate in our society; but they sure would like to
set
the
rules.
Maybe they would, but how are they doing so far? Can you
point
me
toward
any
groups lobbying for "honour" killings to be made legal?
Did
you
read
the
news today? There's a conference being held in Sweden to
condemn
"honour"
killings. I can't imagine, for even one second, that
anyone
is
going
to
suggest it should be permitted in the interests of
cultural
diversity..
Oh... The ghettos are sub-societies outside the real
society.
That's
the
point.
Of course nobody (I think) really wants to kill his own
daughter,
but
it's
in the culture. It was just an example.
tw should know all about it. I have posted numerous articles
on
the
subject. However, he continues to minimize it. (I just read
another
book
by a young Jordanian woman in exile about the death of her
best
friend
at
the hands of the friend's father. All because she snuck out
to
(chastely)
date a Christian boy. The friend is in exile because she
fears
for
her
own
life for arranging the meetings. the royalties from the book
go
to
a
charity working to erradicate honour killings). You will
have
a
hard
time
convincing tw, though!
What's the book called?
"Honor Lost---Love and Death in Modern-Day Jordan" by Norma
Khouri.
Thank you. I haven't read it but looked at some reviews and an
interview
with
Khouri. I reminds me of another book (that I have read): Never
Without
My
Daughter. You've surely seen the movie (but of you haven't don't
worry,
it's
a piece of trash), It is rerun at least 4-5 times a year by most
cable
TV
channels, everytime there is a little friction with Iran.
Back to this one, honour killings are far less common than the
arrangement
of
books in the suburban bookstores would suggest. Such killings are
also
not
merely the preserve of Muslims. In the West we prefer to call them
by
the
delicate euphemism of "crimes of passion". However, like the old
news
adage
that what bleeds should lead, publishers seem to prefer books that
offer
a
sensational-if not entirely accurate-view of the Middle East to
books
that
reflect more nuanced and balanced views of what is a most complex
and
heterogenous cultural millieu. With Muslim-Western relations
characterised
by
mutual misunderstandings and ignorance, such books-whether penned
by
Musli
ms
or non-Muslims-feed the falsehood that lies at the heart of so
many
of
the
problems between the two civilizations.
For this reason, the real tragedy is not that this book and many
others
like
it are basically a very distorted portrait of reality; the real
tragedy
is
that so many of us find them so believable.
End of book review;-)
Stat.
You have not read the book...and yet you are arrogant enough to
judge
it?
It is not nobel-quality literature by any means, but this woman has
lived
it
and wrote it as a tribute to her best friend, who was killed by her
father
in collusion with her brothers.
So it is an emotional work, not a rational one. How surprising.
So what?
So it shouldn't be used as a basis for investigating how widespread the
problem is. It is not a scientific study.
It is emotional about the friend and the things they did together,
but interspersed are statiscs and facts about Jordanian society. (Not
footnoted, but the sources are usually mentioned)
See above.
It is not a "crime of passion"! A crine of passion is when someone
comes
home and finds their spouse in bed with someone else and murders
without
thought.
How do you know it's without thought? Sounds like the two are really
quite
comparable (and inexcusable) really..
To me, that is what a crime of passion is...that is where the passion
comes
in. If you know your partner is having an affair and you plot to kill
them,
that is not a crime of passion, either.
Under law, apparently, it is.
What is the statute?
Honour killings are planned executions.
Yes, planned executions are disgusting arent they? Where do you stand
on
the
death penalty again?
I cry no tears for the guilty.
..Which is exactly what the carrier-out of an honour killing woudl say. In
their eyes the victim is guilty.
The difference is the victim is also thought to be guilty by their society!
The men are given a slap on the wrist, if that. Western society treats the
murderer as the guilty party.
BTW, are you 100% sure that 100% of people who get the death penalty are
definitely guilty?
Not in the past, but with DNA, it is getting more and more definite.
Besides, in the US at least, they have years of appeals...Ted Bundy appealed
for 15 years before he was finally executed.
These girls and women are guilty of nothing
that deserves death.
Well, you and I might feel that way but other people obviously don't. I
mean, I don't think a murderer deserves to die, but you do. See?
And they are much MORE
common than the media would have us believe.
How do you know that?
This latest book is not my only source of information on the
subject.
Far
from it.
What other anecdotal source do you use then?
I gave you a list of books some time ago. Look it up.
So you agree your sources are anecdotal?
Nope! Some are anecdotal, some are scholarly.
Jane
.
|
|
|
| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
10 Dec 2004 08:07:32 AM |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1weud.37361$dC3.1207282@news20.bellglobal.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:cpbqgp$l19$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2X4ud.49927$l%5.1642438@news20.bellglobal.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:cp99bv$cnn$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:spVtd.39162$l%5.1495452@news20.bellglobal.com...
<snip>
Honour killings are planned executions.
Yes, planned executions are disgusting arent they? Where do you
stand
on
the
death penalty again?
I cry no tears for the guilty.
..Which is exactly what the carrier-out of an honour killing woudl say.
In
their eyes the victim is guilty.
The difference is the victim is also thought to be guilty by their
society!
Then there is no difference.That's generally what "guilty" means. For
example, if I walk down the street drinking from a beer bottle and smoking a
spliff in Amsterdam, I'm not guilty of anything. Try it in the US and I am
guilty on a couple of counts. "Law" is not an absolute concept, it varies
from society to society, so it follows that guilt does the same.
The men are given a slap on the wrist, if that. Western society treats
the
murderer as the guilty party.
In *both* societies the "guilty" party is seen as the guilty party.
BTW, are you 100% sure that 100% of people who get the death penalty are
definitely guilty?
Not in the past
Bummer for all those people executed wrongly, eh?
, but with DNA, it is getting more and more definite.
Hmm, DNA is not the catch-all some peopel woudl have you believe. It is
about as good as fingerprinting, which was presumably around "in the past"
and didn't do much to save innocent people then, as you admit.
By the way, what sort of certainty rate are you prepared to accept? 99% 80?
How would YOU feel if you got stuck on death row for something you hadn't
done and couldn't afford a hot-shot lawyer?
Besides, in the US at least, they have years of appeals...
Everyone?! Surely you need to be able to employ a competent (i.e. expensive)
lawyer to do that.
Ted Bundy appealed
for 15 years before he was finally executed.
Eh? convicted 1979, fried 89 != 10 years..Anyway, how come innocent people
get put to death wrongly, as you freely admit even though this appeals
system is in place? (For those who can afford it)
These girls and women are guilty of nothing
that deserves death.
Well, you and I might feel that way but other people obviously don't. I
mean, I don't think a murderer deserves to die, but you do. See?
And they are much MORE
common than the media would have us believe.
How do you know that?
This latest book is not my only source of information on the
subject.
Far
from it.
What other anecdotal source do you use then?
I gave you a list of books some time ago. Look it up.
So you agree your sources are anecdotal?
Nope! Some are anecdotal, some are scholarly.
but I thought the "true extent" wasn't known? This being the case, how can
anyone right a scholarly book on how often it occurs?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "MonsieurStat" |
|
| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
09 Dec 2004 09:16:11 AM |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:spVtd.39162$l%5.1495452@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:x4Otd.35695$dC3.907707@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6qJtd.31351$l%5.1239167@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Q8ttd.23434$l%5.1016432@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bdrtd.30466$dC3.632741@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:Zmktd.123663$dP1.439184@newsc.telia.net...
"tw" <no@no.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:cp4h90$lm$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:5Cjtd.123654$dP1.439072@newsc.telia.net...
In Expressen today, there's an article about young women from
certain
cultures getting killed by their fathers for loving the wrong
man.
How has that cause the "ghettoisation" , violence or lack of jobs
you
were
complaining about in Malmö?
That is a good example of what I'm talking about:
No it isn't - either that or you are confused as to exactly what
you
ARE
talking about. See above.
Some people don't want to
participate in our society; but they sure would like to set the
rules.
Maybe they would, but how are they doing so far? Can you point me
toward
any
groups lobbying for "honour" killings to be made legal? Did you
read
the
news today? There's a conference being held in Sweden to condemn
"honour"
killings. I can't imagine, for even one second, that anyone is
going
to
suggest it should be permitted in the interests of cultural
diversity..
Oh... The ghettos are sub-societies outside the real society. That's
the
point.
Of course nobody (I think) really wants to kill his own daughter,
but
it's
in the culture. It was just an example.
tw should know all about it. I have posted numerous articles on the
subject. However, he continues to minimize it. (I just read another
book
by a young Jordanian woman in exile about the death of her best
friend
at
the hands of the friend's father. All because she snuck out to
(chastely)
date a Christian boy. The friend is in exile because she fears for
her
own
life for arranging the meetings. the royalties from the book go to a
charity working to erradicate honour killings). You will have a hard
time
convincing tw, though!
What's the book called?
"Honor Lost---Love and Death in Modern-Day Jordan" by Norma Khouri.
Thank you. I haven't read it but looked at some reviews and an interview
with
Khouri. I reminds me of another book (that I have read): Never Without My
Daughter. You've surely seen the movie (but of you haven't don't worry,
it's
a piece of trash), It is rerun at least 4-5 times a year by most cable TV
channels, everytime there is a little friction with Iran.
Back to this one, honour killings are far less common than the arrangement
of
books in the suburban bookstores would suggest. Such killings are also not
merely the preserve of Muslims. In the West we prefer to call them by the
delicate euphemism of "crimes of passion". However, like the old news
adage
that what bleeds should lead, publishers seem to prefer books that offer a
sensational-if not entirely accurate-view of the Middle East to books that
reflect more nuanced and balanced views of what is a most complex and
heterogenous cultural millieu. With Muslim-Western relations characterised
by
mutual misunderstandings and ignorance, such books-whether penned by Musli
ms
or non-Muslims-feed the falsehood that lies at the heart of so many of the
problems between the two civilizations.
For this reason, the real tragedy is not that this book and many others
like
it are basically a very distorted portrait of reality; the real tragedy is
that so many of us find them so believable.
End of book review;-)
Stat.
You have not read the book...and yet you are arrogant enough to judge it?
My judgment isn't on the book per say, but the whole way these things are
sensationalized, and used in contexts that have little to do with their
source causes.
And as you say, this book isn't any different from the hundreds and hundreds
of similar works. I am quite sure the vast majority of these books have a
noble intent to begin, but they usually achieve very much the opposite of
what they set out to do, by further increasing prejudices against whole
groups of people and deflecting attention from those source causes.
Like the review says the tragedy is not only that reality is distorted, but
that so many of us buy completely into that distorted reality.
Stat.
It is not nobel-quality literature by any means, but this woman has lived
it
and wrote it as a tribute to her best friend, who was killed by her father
in collusion with her brothers.
It is not a "crime of passion"! A crine of passion is when someone comes
home and finds their spouse in bed with someone else and murders without
thought. Honour killings are planned executions. And they are much MORE
common than the media would have us believe.
This latest book is not my only source of information on the subject. Far
from it.
Jane
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
09 Dec 2004 05:10:57 PM |
|
|
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k%Ztd.36617$dC3.1020615@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:spVtd.39162$l%5.1495452@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:x4Otd.35695$dC3.907707@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6qJtd.31351$l%5.1239167@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Q8ttd.23434$l%5.1016432@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bdrtd.30466$dC3.632741@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:Zmktd.123663$dP1.439184@newsc.telia.net...
"tw" <no@no.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:cp4h90$lm$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:5Cjtd.123654$dP1.439072@newsc.telia.net...
In Expressen today, there's an article about young women from
certain
cultures getting killed by their fathers for loving the wrong
man.
How has that cause the "ghettoisation" , violence or lack of
jobs
you
were
complaining about in Malmö?
That is a good example of what I'm talking about:
No it isn't - either that or you are confused as to exactly
what
you
ARE
talking about. See above.
Some people don't want to
participate in our society; but they sure would like to set
the
rules.
Maybe they would, but how are they doing so far? Can you point
me
toward
any
groups lobbying for "honour" killings to be made legal? Did
you
read
the
news today? There's a conference being held in Sweden to
condemn
"honour"
killings. I can't imagine, for even one second, that anyone is
going
to
suggest it should be permitted in the interests of cultural
diversity..
Oh... The ghettos are sub-societies outside the real society.
That's
the
point.
Of course nobody (I think) really wants to kill his own daughter,
but
it's
in the culture. It was just an example.
tw should know all about it. I have posted numerous articles on
the
subject. However, he continues to minimize it. (I just read
another
book
by a young Jordanian woman in exile about the death of her best
friend
at
the hands of the friend's father. All because she snuck out to
(chastely)
date a Christian boy. The friend is in exile because she fears
for
her
own
life for arranging the meetings. the royalties from the book go
to a
charity working to erradicate honour killings). You will have a
hard
time
convincing tw, though!
What's the book called?
"Honor Lost---Love and Death in Modern-Day Jordan" by Norma Khouri.
Thank you. I haven't read it but looked at some reviews and an
interview
with
Khouri. I reminds me of another book (that I have read): Never Without
My
Daughter. You've surely seen the movie (but of you haven't don't worry,
it's
a piece of trash), It is rerun at least 4-5 times a year by most cable
TV
channels, everytime there is a little friction with Iran.
Back to this one, honour killings are far less common than the
arrangement
of
books in the suburban bookstores would suggest. Such killings are also
not
merely the preserve of Muslims. In the West we prefer to call them by
the
delicate euphemism of "crimes of passion". However, like the old news
adage
that what bleeds should lead, publishers seem to prefer books that
offer a
sensational-if not entirely accurate-view of the Middle East to books
that
reflect more nuanced and balanced views of what is a most complex and
heterogenous cultural millieu. With Muslim-Western relations
characterised
by
mutual misunderstandings and ignorance, such books-whether penned by
Musli
ms
or non-Muslims-feed the falsehood that lies at the heart of so many of
the
problems between the two civilizations.
For this reason, the real tragedy is not that this book and many others
like
it are basically a very distorted portrait of reality; the real tragedy
is
that so many of us find them so believable.
End of book review;-)
Stat.
You have not read the book...and yet you are arrogant enough to judge
it?
My judgment isn't on the book per say, but the whole way these things are
sensationalized, and used in contexts that have little to do with their
source causes.
And as you say, this book isn't any different from the hundreds and
hundreds
of similar works. I am quite sure the vast majority of these books have a
noble intent to begin, but they usually achieve very much the opposite of
what they set out to do, by further increasing prejudices against whole
groups of people and deflecting attention from those source causes.
Like the review says the tragedy is not only that reality is distorted,
but
that so many of us buy completely into that distorted reality.
Stat.
You cannot "review" something you haven't read!
Jane
It is not nobel-quality literature by any means, but this woman has
lived
it
and wrote it as a tribute to her best friend, who was killed by her
father
in collusion with her brothers.
It is not a "crime of passion"! A crine of passion is when someone
comes
home and finds their spouse in bed with someone else and murders without
thought. Honour killings are planned executions. And they are much
MORE
common than the media would have us believe.
This latest book is not my only source of information on the subject.
Far
from it.
Jane
.
|
|
|
| User: "MonsieurStat" |
|
| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
11 Dec 2004 01:24:44 AM |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZX4ud.49977$l%5.1642882@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k%Ztd.36617$dC3.1020615@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:spVtd.39162$l%5.1495452@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:x4Otd.35695$dC3.907707@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6qJtd.31351$l%5.1239167@news20.bellglobal.com...
"MonsieurStat" <Monsieurstat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Q8ttd.23434$l%5.1016432@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bdrtd.30466$dC3.632741@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:Zmktd.123663$dP1.439184@newsc.telia.net...
"tw" <no@no.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:cp4h90$lm$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:5Cjtd.123654$dP1.439072@newsc.telia.net...
In Expressen today, there's an article about young women from
certain
cultures getting killed by their fathers for loving the wrong
man.
How has that cause the "ghettoisation" , violence or lack of
jobs
you
were
complaining about in Malmö?
That is a good example of what I'm talking about:
No it isn't - either that or you are confused as to exactly
what
you
ARE
talking about. See above.
Some people don't want to
participate in our society; but they sure would like to set
the
rules.
Maybe they would, but how are they doing so far? Can you point
me
toward
any
groups lobbying for "honour" killings to be made legal? Did
you
read
the
news today? There's a conference being held in Sweden to
condemn
"honour"
killings. I can't imagine, for even one second, that anyone is
going
to
suggest it should be permitted in the interests of cultural
diversity..
Oh... The ghettos are sub-societies outside the real society.
That's
the
point.
Of course nobody (I think) really wants to kill his own daughter,
but
it's
in the culture. It was just an example.
tw should know all about it. I have posted numerous articles on
the
subject. However, he continues to minimize it. (I just read
another
book
by a young Jordanian woman in exile about the death of her best
friend
at
the hands of the friend's father. All because she snuck out to
(chastely)
date a Christian boy. The friend is in exile because she fears
for
her
own
life for arranging the meetings. the royalties from the book go
to a
charity working to erradicate honour killings). You will have a
hard
time
convincing tw, though!
What's the book called?
"Honor Lost---Love and Death in Modern-Day Jordan" by Norma Khouri.
Thank you. I haven't read it but looked at some reviews and an
interview
with
Khouri. I reminds me of another book (that I have read): Never Without
My
Daughter. You've surely seen the movie (but of you haven't don't worry,
it's
a piece of trash), It is rerun at least 4-5 times a year by most cable
TV
channels, everytime there is a little friction with Iran.
Back to this one, honour killings are far less common than the
arrangement
of
books in the suburban bookstores would suggest. Such killings are also
not
merely the preserve of Muslims. In the West we prefer to call them by
the
delicate euphemism of "crimes of passion". However, like the old news
adage
that what bleeds should lead, publishers seem to prefer books that
offer a
sensational-if not entirely accurate-view of the Middle East to books
that
reflect more nuanced and balanced views of what is a most complex and
heterogenous cultural millieu. With Muslim-Western relations
characterised
by
mutual misunderstandings and ignorance, such books-whether penned by
Musli
ms
or non-Muslims-feed the falsehood that lies at the heart of so many of
the
problems between the two civilizations.
For this reason, the real tragedy is not that this book and many others
like
it are basically a very distorted portrait of reality; the real tragedy
is
that so many of us find them so believable.
End of book review;-)
Stat.
You have not read the book...and yet you are arrogant enough to judge
it?
My judgment isn't on the book per say, but the whole way these things are
sensationalized, and used in contexts that have little to do with their
source causes.
And as you say, this book isn't any different from the hundreds and
hundreds
of similar works. I am quite sure the vast majority of these books have a
noble intent to begin, but they usually achieve very much the opposite of
what they set out to do, by further increasing prejudices against whole
groups of people and deflecting attention from those source causes.
Like the review says the tragedy is not only that reality is distorted,
but
that so many of us buy completely into that distorted reality.
Stat.
You cannot "review" something you haven't read!
But it's not the book that is the issue here. It's the readers who base their
beliefs on stuff they read (or hear from other unreliable sources) and then
make all kinds of wrong conclusions about entire societies.
Stat.
Jane
It is not nobel-quality literature by any means, but this woman has
lived
it
and wrote it as a tribute to her best friend, who was killed by her
father
in collusion with her brothers.
It is not a "crime of passion"! A crine of passion is when someone
comes
home and finds their spouse in bed with someone else and murders without
thought. Honour killings are planned executions. And they are much
MORE
common than the media would have us believe.
This latest book is not my only source of information on the subject.
Far
from it.
Jane
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
08 Dec 2004 02:07:08 AM |
|
|
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:Zmktd.123663$dP1.439184@newsc.telia.net...
"tw" <no@no.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:cp4h90$lm$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:5Cjtd.123654$dP1.439072@newsc.telia.net...
In Expressen today, there's an article about young women from certain
cultures getting killed by their fathers for loving the wrong man.
How has that cause the "ghettoisation" , violence or lack of jobs you
were
complaining about in Malmö?
No reply, Hans? Can't we stick to the point?
That is a good example of what I'm talking about:
No it isn't - either that or you are confused as to exactly what you ARE
talking about. See above.
Some people don't want to
participate in our society; but they sure would like to set the rules.
Maybe they would, but how are they doing so far? Can you point me toward
any
groups lobbying for "honour" killings to be made legal? Did you read
the
news today? There's a conference being held in Sweden to condemn
"honour"
killings. I can't imagine, for even one second, that anyone is going to
suggest it should be permitted in the interests of cultural diversity..
Oh... The ghettos are sub-societies outside the real society. That's the
point.
How is Islam to blame?
Of course nobody (I think) really wants to kill his own daughter, but it's
in the culture. It was just an example.
Again, how advanced is teh campaign to impose these laws on us? I haven't
heard much about it recently.
"tw" <no@no.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:cp3uig$jpu$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1102399123.728015.121230@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
tw <no@no.com> wrote:
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:v2Wsd.7185$l%5.394466@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0412052234.439c5962@posting.google.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in article:
<D7Esd.124$l%5.26638@news20.bellglobal.com>...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:p1Asd.10247$d5.91551@newsb.telia.net...
http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=572&a=351097&previousRenderType=6
(article in swedish)
But you could still fill us in on the gist of it! tw may
ignore this
post
(he sometimes does that when proven wrong) :)!
I think he'll respond when he gets back from his usual
weekend
break.
I looked up a few words from the headline, and it seems to
say
something about an extreme increase in law activity
something
or
other
You're right, he did respond. Oh, well, I can't ALWAYS be
right
;-)!
..or even *ever* ? ;-)
I wish I'd replied in this thread, but when I fired up outlook
this
morning
I didn't spot it and assumed it was part of teh standard
loss/latency
our
news server is afflicted with. (I apologise to Steven in advance
if
he
botehed replying to the last post in "missionaries and
murderers" -
it
hasn't turned up in google yet if you have, Steve.
I didn't reply. I agreed with about 75% of what you wrote, and I
liked
the way you ended each paragraph ... so I decided at that point
there
was no reason to argue a few details. It is my opinion the Mufti's
role
in Hitler's heirarchy has been underreported by history. My links
about
the Mufti do not prove anything, one way or the other. They simply
provide evidence. For example, the BBC story demonstrates his high
level of operational command). One of the other links told of 5000
Jewish children that Hitler was ready to trade for some German
POW's
... until the Mufti convinced the SS to forego the deal, and the
5000
children were sent to death camps. The Mufti was concerned the
5000
children would eventually be sent to the Palestine Mandate, and
that
was the last thing he wanted to see happen. A German officer said
later
he thought the Mufti would have liked to see all Jews dead.
http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/medigest/may00/arabnazi.html
http://www.balkanpeace.org/hed/archive/apr04/hed6371.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/world/middle_east/1423589.stm
The article, by the way, was about joblessness increasing since
the
1990ish
(while not mentioing that was also when teh Swedish economy
tanked),
and
also contained a fascinating expsoe on how you are more likely
to
be
the
victim of a violent crime in an urban area than in a rural one!
News
to us
all. I'm sure. Howvere, even though the opinion piece was
written
by
a
member of Folkpartiet (who have some decidedly Tony-esque views
on
race)
they made no attempt to blame this phenomena on Muslims.
Ironic that Folkpartiet is the self-proclaimed "Liberal" party of
Sweden, which makes me think it would not be Tony's party of
choice.
Well.. they're more "libertarian" than liberal, but I actually got
the
confised withe the "Moderate" party (which is anything but).
Nonetheless, the article Hans posted was a) an opinion piece rather
than
hard news and b) made no mention whatsoever of Islam being the main
(or
even
a!) factor in the economic ghettoisation of inner city areas.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Hans D. Magnusson" |
|
| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
08 Dec 2004 10:30:04 AM |
|
|
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:5Cjtd.123654$dP1.439072@newsc.telia.net...
In Expressen today, there's an article about young women from
certain
cultures getting killed by their fathers for loving the wrong man.
How has that cause the "ghettoisation" , violence or lack of jobs you
were
complaining about in Malmö?
No reply, Hans? Can't we stick to the point?
That is a good example of what I'm talking about:
No it isn't - either that or you are confused as to exactly what you
ARE
talking about. See above.
Some people don't want to
participate in our society; but they sure would like to set the
rules.
Maybe they would, but how are they doing so far? Can you point me
toward
any
groups lobbying for "honour" killings to be made legal? Did you read
the
news today? There's a conference being held in Sweden to condemn
"honour"
killings. I can't imagine, for even one second, that anyone is going
to
suggest it should be permitted in the interests of cultural
diversity..
Oh... The ghettos are sub-societies outside the real society. That's the
point.
How is Islam to blame?
Of course nobody (I think) really wants to kill his own daughter, but
it's
in the culture. It was just an example.
Again, how advanced is teh campaign to impose these laws on us? I haven't
heard much about it recently.
As I said: Some people don't want to participate in our society; but they
sure would like to set the rules. If you can't understand what I mean, well,
I don't care. You're stuck on silly details, just trying to win a
conversation on the internet. What we've been building for centuries is
going down fast. The difference between me and you is that I care. End of
discussion.
.
|
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
09 Dec 2004 03:08:11 AM |
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"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:g_Ftd.123750$dP1.439878@newsc.telia.net...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:5Cjtd.123654$dP1.439072@newsc.telia.net...
In Expressen today, there's an article about young women from
certain
cultures getting killed by their fathers for loving the wrong man.
How has that cause the "ghettoisation" , violence or lack of jobs
you
were
complaining about in Malmö?
No reply, Hans? Can't we stick to the point?
That is a good example of what I'm talking about:
No it isn't - either that or you are confused as to exactly what you
ARE
talking about. See above.
Some people don't want to
participate in our society; but they sure would like to set the
rules.
Maybe they would, but how are they doing so far? Can you point me
toward
any
groups lobbying for "honour" killings to be made legal? Did you
read
the
news today? There's a conference being held in Sweden to condemn
"honour"
killings. I can't imagine, for even one second, that anyone is going
to
suggest it should be permitted in the interests of cultural
diversity..
Oh... The ghettos are sub-societies outside the real society. That's
the
point.
How is Islam to blame?
Of course nobody (I think) really wants to kill his own daughter, but
it's
in the culture. It was just an example.
Again, how advanced is teh campaign to impose these laws on us? I
haven't
heard much about it recently.
As I said: Some people don't want to participate in our society; but they
sure would like to set the rules.
What rules are "they" attempting to set?
Who are "they"?
What influence does Islam have on "them"
If you can't understand what I mean, well,
I don't care. You're stuck on silly details, just trying to win a
conversation on the internet.
Well, as long as you keep making assertions without supporting them with any
evidence whatsoever, I'm not going to NEED to try in order to win..
What we've been building for centuries is
going down fast. The difference between me and you is that I care.
I think the difference is that I'm rational..
End of
discussion.
You call making baseless assertions discussion?!
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| User: "Hans D. Magnusson" |
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| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
09 Dec 2004 10:19:17 AM |
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"tw" <no@no.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:cp94ei$a40$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:g_Ftd.123750$dP1.439878@newsc.telia.net...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:5Cjtd.123654$dP1.439072@newsc.telia.net...
In Expressen today, there's an article about young women from
certain
cultures getting killed by their fathers for loving the wrong
man.
How has that cause the "ghettoisation" , violence or lack of jobs
you
were
complaining about in Malmö?
No reply, Hans? Can't we stick to the point?
That is a good example of what I'm talking about:
No it isn't - either that or you are confused as to exactly what
you
ARE
talking about. See above.
Some people don't want to
participate in our society; but they sure would like to set the
rules.
Maybe they would, but how are they doing so far? Can you point me
toward
any
groups lobbying for "honour" killings to be made legal? Did you
read
the
news today? There's a conference being held in Sweden to condemn
"honour"
killings. I can't imagine, for even one second, that anyone is
going
to
suggest it should be permitted in the interests of cultural
diversity..
Oh... The ghettos are sub-societies outside the real society. That's
the
point.
How is Islam to blame?
Of course nobody (I think) really wants to kill his own daughter,
but
it's
in the culture. It was just an example.
Again, how advanced is teh campaign to impose these laws on us? I
haven't
heard much about it recently.
As I said: Some people don't want to participate in our society; but
they
sure would like to set the rules.
What rules are "they" attempting to set?
Who are "they"?
What influence does Islam have on "them"
The killing of van Gogh. Who did it? And why?
If you can't understand what I mean, well,
I don't care. You're stuck on silly details, just trying to win a
conversation on the internet.
Well, as long as you keep making assertions without supporting them with
any
evidence whatsoever, I'm not going to NEED to try in order to win..
What we've been building for centuries is
going down fast. The difference between me and you is that I care.
I think the difference is that I'm rational..
In what way? You think "South Central Malmö" is a pleasant place. Do you
think the victims think so too?
End of
discussion.
You call making baseless assertions discussion?!
You're out; got caught trying to steal the base.
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
10 Dec 2004 03:41:30 AM |
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"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:9W_td.123873$dP1.440603@newsc.telia.net...
"tw" <no@no.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:cp94ei$a40$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:g_Ftd.123750$dP1.439878@newsc.telia.net...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:5Cjtd.123654$dP1.439072@newsc.telia.net...
In Expressen today, there's an article about young women from
certain
cultures getting killed by their fathers for loving the wrong
man.
How has that cause the "ghettoisation" , violence or lack of
jobs
you
were
complaining about in Malmö?
No reply, Hans? Can't we stick to the point?
That is a good example of what I'm talking about:
No it isn't - either that or you are confused as to exactly what
you
ARE
talking about. See above.
Some people don't want to
participate in our society; but they sure would like to set
the
rules.
Maybe they would, but how are they doing so far? Can you point
me
toward
any
groups lobbying for "honour" killings to be made legal? Did you
read
the
news today? There's a conference being held in Sweden to condemn
"honour"
killings. I can't imagine, for even one second, that anyone is
going
to
suggest it should be permitted in the interests of cultural
diversity..
Oh... The ghettos are sub-societies outside the real society.
That's
the
point.
How is Islam to blame?
Of course nobody (I think) really wants to kill his own daughter,
but
it's
in the culture. It was just an example.
Again, how advanced is teh campaign to impose these laws on us? I
haven't
heard much about it recently.
As I said: Some people don't want to participate in our society; but
they
sure would like to set the rules.
What rules are "they" attempting to set?
Who are "they"?
What influence does Islam have on "them"
The killing of van Gogh.
Malmö isn't in Holland, Hans. Get out of Småland occasionally, eh?
Who did it? And why?
Some religious nutcase, because he was a religious nutcase. Peter Sutcliffe
murdered prostitutes in the UK and said God told him to. Society is full of
such twisted nutcases.
If you can't understand what I mean, well,
I don't care. You're stuck on silly details, just trying to win a
conversation on the internet.
Well, as long as you keep making assertions without supporting them with
any
evidence whatsoever, I'm not going to NEED to try in order to win..
What we've been building for centuries is
going down fast. The difference between me and you is that I care.
I think the difference is that I'm rational..
In what way?
In as much as I'm prepared to back up what I say with data.
You think "South Central Malmö" is a pleasant place.
Yep it is - seen the property prices lately?
Do you think the victims think so too?
What victims are you talking about?
End of
discussion.
You call making baseless assertions discussion?!
You're out; got caught trying to steal the base.
You're not making any sense Hans. Try it in Swedish if you like.
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| User: "Hans D. Magnusson" |
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| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
10 Dec 2004 10:56:01 AM |
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Tolerance will wipe out the west. I guess you just can't wait.
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| User: "Jane" |
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| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
11 Dec 2004 03:56:33 AM |
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"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:Bykud.123997$dP1.441425@newsc.telia.net...
Tolerance will wipe out the west. I guess you just can't wait.
Hear, hear! Some of us have been saying that for years. Some things you
just shouldn't tolerate!
Jane
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| User: "MonsieurStat" |
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| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
11 Dec 2004 08:59:51 PM |
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"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kvzud.54600$dC3.1431795@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:Bykud.123997$dP1.441425@newsc.telia.net...
Tolerance will wipe out the west. I guess you just can't wait.
Hear, hear! Some of us have been saying that for years. Some things you
just shouldn't tolerate!
Of course not. There's in fact a LOT of things we shouldn't tolerate.
Especially in the West, the land of plenty!
Let me give you a few examples:
- Killing of women and children
- Napalming civilians to death
- Starving and refusing medical care to children
- Torturing of prisoners
- Killing of prisoners for fun
- Dropping nasty bombs on the head of civilians who've never done anything to
us
- Invading countries to take control of their ressources and land
- Over throwing democratically governments
- Denying our own citizens their basic human right
And many many other things that we should not tolerate, but we do because
they don't affect us directly and even will benefit us somehow.
Stat.
Jane
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| User: "TonyZ2001" |
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| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
11 Dec 2004 05:45:20 AM |
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"Jane"
wrote:
"Hans D. Magnusson" <hd@home.se> wrote in message
news:Bykud.123997$dP1.441425@newsc.telia.net...
Tolerance will wipe out the west. I guess you just can't wait.
Hear, hear! Some of us have been >saying that for years. Some things you
just shouldn't tolerate!
Jane
Yep, but Liberals are tolerant of everything except Christianity.
If you really pay attention to Liberals, you will find that most are self
loathing, and in fact many are masochistic.
Tony
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| User: "WH" |
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| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
11 Dec 2004 06:36:07 AM |
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That should read "HERE" "HERE" you fool. But then again you racists
aren't exactly famous for your intelligence are you?
WH
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| User: "Jane" |
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| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
11 Dec 2004 10:25:08 PM |
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"WH" <bollogs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1102768567.708166.308310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
That should read "HERE" "HERE" you fool.
Since when???
But then again you racists
aren't exactly famous for your intelligence are you?
Don't speak too soon, dimbulb!
WH
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| User: "WH" |
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| Title: Re: Have you read the news today, tw? |
12 Dec 2004 05:59:34 AM |
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.....same here!
WH
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