The Helios Air Crash
By Peter Davenport
National UFO Reporting Center
director@ufocenter.com
8-15-5
Already, the "push" is on to explain the crash yesterday of Helios
Flight 522 in Greece as having been caused by faulty pressurization
equipment. That certainly is a possibility, but there is another
possible explanation, which no one appears to be talking about in the
corporate news media...
Visitors to your website certainly recall that several months ago, the
TSA announced that cigarette lighters no longer would be allowed
aboard commercial aircraft. At the time of the announcement, the
authorities did not state what the purpose of that policy change was,
but I suspect that most people assumed that its purpose was to prevent
passengers from being able to start campfires in the cabin, ignite
fuses, etc.. However, that wasn't my reaction to that announcement, by
any means...
There are many organic chemicals available, the fumes of which will
render humans unconscious very quickly. The best evidence of the
existence of such chemicals is their use by the Russian security
forces, when they stormed the theater in Moscow in October 2002 to
free hostages being held there by Chechnyen kidnappers. According to
the reports at the time, the occupants of the theater fell unconscious
immediately after gasses were pumped into the theater through the
ventilation system, and many of the occupants, both kidnappers and
hostages, died from subsequent asphyxiation.
Hence, TSA,s ban on cigarette lighters may have been implemented, in
order to prevent bad guys from being able surreptitiously to carry
such chemicals, concealed as lighter fluid, aboard a commercial
airliner.
I mention all of this because the events reported for the crash of the
Helios flight yesterday appear to be not inconsistent with the
scenario I describe above. In fact, some elements of the reports
coming from Greece seem inconsistent with a simple depressurization of
the aircraft. Although I am not well versed in the pressurization
system of a Boeing 737, or any other type of airliner, I suspect that
the oxygen masks are designed to deploy immediately in the event of a
cabin depressurization, and I suspect that the crew's oxygen masks
would deploy sooner, and faster, still.
Hence, it is not clear to me why almost everyone aboard the plane,
including the cockpit crew, fell unconscious. Moreover, it seems
strange that some of the occupants of the plane were seen still moving
about the cabin, and perhaps even the cockpit, when the F-16's
intercepted the airliner. If the pressurization event was so sudden
and dramatic that even the crew was quickly rendered unconscious, it
seems odd to me that anyone would be left conscious, and, therefore,
able to move about the aircraft.
One other comment about the reports that are being released today, the
day after the crash... The rescuers allegedly have reported that some
of the bodies of the victims were found "frozen solid." I am not an
expert in such matters, but it seems unusual to me that human bodies
could be frozen so quickly, i.e. in less than two hours, aboard an
airliner, particularly if the passengers were still alive and
insulated by clothing. If these reports about the bodies are true, it
suggests to me that the passengers may have died earlier in the
flight, which would lead to much more rapid chilling and freezing of
their remains.
Alternatively, if the reports are not true, that fact would make me
wonder whether the authorities know or suspect what may have happened,
and they are building a "web of disinformation, in order to mislead
the public. Shoulder-launched missiles may not be the only potential
threat to commercial aviation!!
I write, principally, Jeff, hoping to alert those of your readers who
fly commercial airliners for a living to the effect that the U. S.
government may not be giving us "mere" citizens all the information
they may possess regarding possible threats to commercial aviation. It
will be interesting to see whether forensic analysis of the victims
shows any sign of organic toxins in the victims' remains.
However, even if such a discovery were made at autopsy, I suspect the
governmental agencies and airline executives would have a vested
interest in keeping such information concealed from the public. Their
principal objective, I suspect, would be to keep the airlines flying,
and passengers paying for tickets, no matter what unseen risks there
may be.
If I were an airline pilot, I would be tempted to see to it that at
least one crew member in the cockpit was wearing an oxygen mask at all
times, in order to avoid the risks I describe above. In addition, I
would be tempted to contact the Chief Pilot of my airline, in order to
apprise all pilots of the potential risks they may face in the
cockpit.
Peter B. Davenport, Seattle, WA Commercial Pilot Certificate #2263995
.
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| User: "Charly the Bastard" |
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| Title: Re: Helios Air Crash |
17 Aug 2005 07:13:41 AM |
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wrote:
The Helios Air Crash
By Peter Davenport
National UFO Reporting Center
director@ufocenter.com
8-15-5
Already, the "push" is on to explain the crash yesterday of Helios
Flight 522 in Greece as having been caused by faulty pressurization
equipment. That certainly is a possibility, but there is another
possible explanation, which no one appears to be talking about in the
corporate news media...
Visitors to your website certainly recall that several months ago, the
TSA announced that cigarette lighters no longer would be allowed
aboard commercial aircraft. At the time of the announcement, the
authorities did not state what the purpose of that policy change was,
but I suspect that most people assumed that its purpose was to prevent
passengers from being able to start campfires in the cabin, ignite
fuses, etc.. However, that wasn't my reaction to that announcement, by
any means...
There are many organic chemicals available, the fumes of which will
render humans unconscious very quickly. The best evidence of the
existence of such chemicals is their use by the Russian security
forces, when they stormed the theater in Moscow in October 2002 to
free hostages being held there by Chechnyen kidnappers. According to
the reports at the time, the occupants of the theater fell unconscious
immediately after gasses were pumped into the theater through the
ventilation system, and many of the occupants, both kidnappers and
hostages, died from subsequent asphyxiation.
Hence, TSA,s ban on cigarette lighters may have been implemented, in
order to prevent bad guys from being able surreptitiously to carry
such chemicals, concealed as lighter fluid, aboard a commercial
airliner.
I mention all of this because the events reported for the crash of the
Helios flight yesterday appear to be not inconsistent with the
scenario I describe above. In fact, some elements of the reports
coming from Greece seem inconsistent with a simple depressurization of
the aircraft. Although I am not well versed in the pressurization
system of a Boeing 737, or any other type of airliner, I suspect that
the oxygen masks are designed to deploy immediately in the event of a
cabin depressurization, and I suspect that the crew's oxygen masks
would deploy sooner, and faster, still.
Hence, it is not clear to me why almost everyone aboard the plane,
including the cockpit crew, fell unconscious. Moreover, it seems
strange that some of the occupants of the plane were seen still moving
about the cabin, and perhaps even the cockpit, when the F-16's
intercepted the airliner. If the pressurization event was so sudden
and dramatic that even the crew was quickly rendered unconscious, it
seems odd to me that anyone would be left conscious, and, therefore,
able to move about the aircraft.
One other comment about the reports that are being released today, the
day after the crash... The rescuers allegedly have reported that some
of the bodies of the victims were found "frozen solid." I am not an
expert in such matters, but it seems unusual to me that human bodies
could be frozen so quickly, i.e. in less than two hours, aboard an
airliner, particularly if the passengers were still alive and
insulated by clothing. If these reports about the bodies are true, it
suggests to me that the passengers may have died earlier in the
flight, which would lead to much more rapid chilling and freezing of
their remains.
Alternatively, if the reports are not true, that fact would make me
wonder whether the authorities know or suspect what may have happened,
and they are building a "web of disinformation, in order to mislead
the public. Shoulder-launched missiles may not be the only potential
threat to commercial aviation!!
I write, principally, Jeff, hoping to alert those of your readers who
fly commercial airliners for a living to the effect that the U. S.
government may not be giving us "mere" citizens all the information
they may possess regarding possible threats to commercial aviation. It
will be interesting to see whether forensic analysis of the victims
shows any sign of organic toxins in the victims' remains.
However, even if such a discovery were made at autopsy, I suspect the
governmental agencies and airline executives would have a vested
interest in keeping such information concealed from the public. Their
principal objective, I suspect, would be to keep the airlines flying,
and passengers paying for tickets, no matter what unseen risks there
may be.
If I were an airline pilot, I would be tempted to see to it that at
least one crew member in the cockpit was wearing an oxygen mask at all
times, in order to avoid the risks I describe above. In addition, I
would be tempted to contact the Chief Pilot of my airline, in order to
apprise all pilots of the potential risks they may face in the
cockpit.
Peter B. Davenport, Seattle, WA Commercial Pilot Certificate #2263995
Okay, let's talk about systems. Cabin pressure air comes from the
compressor section on the engines. (Jet engines gulp vastly more air than
they need to keep the fire lit.) The air goes through the air cycle
machine, where it's cooled and reduced in pressure from the roughly three
atmospheres and 400 degrees, then it's fed into the air conditioning
ductwork and into the cabin. At the back of the pressure hull there's a
big valve that looks kinda like a trashcan lid with a knife edge seal.
This valve is driven by the pressure computer, and opens and closes to
maintain cabin pressure. The concept is to pump air in faster than you let
it out, and the static pressure goes up.
What can go wromg: there are flow control valves throughout the system,
one of these sticks closed and the flow drops towards zero,
depressurization event in the making. There can be problems with the
engine that fill the cabin with smoke or noxious fumes. Carbon monoxide is
a silent colorless odorless killer. The outflow valve at the back can
stick open, which will make keeping pressure much more difficult at
altitude, but not impossible if the rest of the system is running full
out. Or you can have a pressure failure somewhere in the cargo holds,
which are inside the pressure hull. You can have a failure of the rear
pressure bulkhead into the unpressurized tailcone, and if it's a slow
leak, there might not be any outward signs of failure, like gaping holes
in the skin.
Next; emergency oxygen. Pasenger emergox is provided by pyrotechnic
candles which have a barometric trigger. Fast leak, slow leak, doesn't
matter. When the absolute pressure drops below the preset, they deploy and
start running. The fact that the Greek AF reported seeing masks deployed
confirms that there was a depressurization event sometime during the
flight at altitude. Cockpit oxygen comes from a cryo system (LOX) and is
isolated from the other oxy systems onboard.
Next, temperature. It's damn cold at 35,000 feet, about -70F. If the air
conditioning unit locks up at full power, it could get mighty cold in the
cabin, down around freezing or below. But I don't see how a human body
could freeze solid in only two hours, even if they were alreadty dead from
anoxia.
The missing CVR may or may not be routine. After all, this is a foreign
carrier, and not bound by FARs. It could be just a case of shoddy
maintinance, or the unit was in the 'shop' for repair ar the time of the
flight.
Charly, retired Mechanic, you'll understand that I don't think posting my
Certificate number woiuld be a good idea in a Post 9/11 world.
.
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: Helios Air Crash |
17 Aug 2005 07:29:32 AM |
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"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:430329F1.8CDE0B7E@worldnet.att.net...
The missing CVR may or may not be routine.
Who says it's missing?
After all, this is a foreign
carrier, and not bound by FARs.
You can bet your arse European operators are held to as, if not more,
stringent regulations as US ones.
It could be just a case of shoddy
maintinance, or the unit was in the 'shop' for repair ar the time of the
flight.
Charly, retired Mechanic, you'll understand that I don't think posting my
Certificate number woiuld be a good idea in a Post 9/11 world.
Not really, no. Why's that?
.
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| User: "Charly the Bastard" |
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| Title: Re: Helios Air Crash |
18 Aug 2005 03:46:02 PM |
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tw wrote:
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:430329F1.8CDE0B7E@worldnet.att.net...
The missing CVR may or may not be routine.
Who says it's missing?
After all, this is a foreign
carrier, and not bound by FARs.
You can bet your arse European operators are held to as, if not more,
stringent regulations as US ones.
It could be just a case of shoddy
maintinance, or the unit was in the 'shop' for repair ar the time of the
flight.
Charly, retired Mechanic, you'll understand that I don't think posting my
Certificate number woiuld be a good idea in a Post 9/11 world.
Not really, no. Why's that?
The latest report on the cable stated that only the casing for the CVR had been
recovered. This was a couple days ago. There were initial reports of witnesses
on the scene stating that the body parts in the wreckage were 'frozen solid'.
Why no number? Because the 'license' is a piece of paper that even a moron
could counterfeit in less than an hour, given a good number in the computer. A
mechanic's ticket is a Ramp Pass. It gets you out on the concrete with the
planes. Is the concept starting to sink in about how much of a security breach
that posting a Certificate number to a global unmoderated newsgroup can be?
Charly
.
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| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: Helios Air Crash |
19 Aug 2005 04:20:41 AM |
|
|
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4304F387.4CA008DB@worldnet.att.net...
tw wrote:
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:430329F1.8CDE0B7E@worldnet.att.net...
The missing CVR may or may not be routine.
Who says it's missing?
After all, this is a foreign
carrier, and not bound by FARs.
You can bet your arse European operators are held to as, if not more,
stringent regulations as US ones.
It could be just a case of shoddy
maintinance, or the unit was in the 'shop' for repair ar the time of
the
flight.
Charly, retired Mechanic, you'll understand that I don't think posting
my
Certificate number woiuld be a good idea in a Post 9/11 world.
Not really, no. Why's that?
The latest report on the cable stated that only the casing for the CVR had
been
recovered. This was a couple days ago. There were initial reports of
witnesses
on the scene stating that the body parts in the wreckage were 'frozen
solid'.
Why no number? Because the 'license' is a piece of paper that even a moron
could counterfeit in less than an hour, given a good number in the
computer. A
mechanic's ticket is a Ramp Pass. It gets you out on the concrete with the
planes.
Get the ***** out of here. If the security in the US is anything like the
security at even the GA part of a British airfield (and Iäm sure it's a lot
tougher) you won't be getting airside without a swipe-card with your photo
on it at the VERY least. Simply chanting your license number into the card
reader isn't going to do you much good is it?
Is the concept starting to sink in about how much of a security breach
that posting a Certificate number to a global unmoderated newsgroup can
be?
No, but the concept that you'r equite possibly a) fullof ***** or b) simply
don't know what you're talking about is...
Charly
.
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| User: "Charly the Bastard" |
|
| Title: Re: Helios Air Crash |
19 Aug 2005 07:59:39 AM |
|
|
tw wrote:
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4304F387.4CA008DB@worldnet.att.net...
tw wrote:
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:430329F1.8CDE0B7E@worldnet.att.net...
The missing CVR may or may not be routine.
Who says it's missing?
After all, this is a foreign
carrier, and not bound by FARs.
You can bet your arse European operators are held to as, if not more,
stringent regulations as US ones.
It could be just a case of shoddy
maintinance, or the unit was in the 'shop' for repair ar the time of
the
flight.
Charly, retired Mechanic, you'll understand that I don't think posting
my
Certificate number woiuld be a good idea in a Post 9/11 world.
Not really, no. Why's that?
The latest report on the cable stated that only the casing for the CVR had
been
recovered. This was a couple days ago. There were initial reports of
witnesses
on the scene stating that the body parts in the wreckage were 'frozen
solid'.
Why no number? Because the 'license' is a piece of paper that even a moron
could counterfeit in less than an hour, given a good number in the
computer. A
mechanic's ticket is a Ramp Pass. It gets you out on the concrete with the
planes.
Get the ***** out of here. If the security in the US is anything like the
security at even the GA part of a British airfield (and Iäm sure it's a lot
tougher) you won't be getting airside without a swipe-card with your photo
on it at the VERY least. Simply chanting your license number into the card
reader isn't going to do you much good is it?
Is the concept starting to sink in about how much of a security breach
that posting a Certificate number to a global unmoderated newsgroup can
be?
No, but the concept that you'r equite possibly a) fullof ***** or b) simply
don't know what you're talking about is...
Charly
Guess again. A Ticket is good until " Suspended, revoked, or surrendered" and is
not reissued at intervals by the FAA. Mine is paper, 'lamination in plastic
highly recomended' by the FAA. It's over twenty years old, and still good. No
photo. The company you work for issues photo IDs, not the FAA. But a 'good' fake
ticket will get you a company ID. And yes, I can still walk right out onto the
Ramp with a toolbox, and no one gives me a second look.
.
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| User: "Tom" |
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| Title: Re: Helios Air Crash |
20 Aug 2005 12:14:21 PM |
|
|
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4305D7B9.1D2528C7@worldnet.att.net...
tw wrote:
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4304F387.4CA008DB@worldnet.att.net...
tw wrote:
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
message
news:430329F1.8CDE0B7E@worldnet.att.net...
The missing CVR may or may not be routine.
Who says it's missing?
After all, this is a foreign
carrier, and not bound by FARs.
You can bet your arse European operators are held to as, if not
more,
stringent regulations as US ones.
It could be just a case of shoddy
maintinance, or the unit was in the 'shop' for repair ar the time
of
the
flight.
Charly, retired Mechanic, you'll understand that I don't think
posting
my
Certificate number woiuld be a good idea in a Post 9/11 world.
Not really, no. Why's that?
The latest report on the cable stated that only the casing for the CVR
had
been
recovered. This was a couple days ago. There were initial reports of
witnesses
on the scene stating that the body parts in the wreckage were 'frozen
solid'.
Why no number? Because the 'license' is a piece of paper that even a
moron
could counterfeit in less than an hour, given a good number in the
computer. A
mechanic's ticket is a Ramp Pass. It gets you out on the concrete with
the
planes.
Get the ***** out of here. If the security in the US is anything like the
security at even the GA part of a British airfield (and Iäm sure it's a
lot
tougher) you won't be getting airside without a swipe-card with your
photo
on it at the VERY least. Simply chanting your license number into the
card
reader isn't going to do you much good is it?
Is the concept starting to sink in about how much of a security breach
that posting a Certificate number to a global unmoderated newsgroup
can
be?
No, but the concept that you'r equite possibly a) fullof ***** or b)
simply
don't know what you're talking about is...
Charly
Guess again.
I wasn't guessing.
A Ticket is good until " Suspended, revoked, or surrendered" and > is not
reissued at intervals by the FAA. Mine is paper, 'lamination in plastic
highly recomended' by the FAA. It's over twenty years old, and still good.
Not going to get you through any airside security doors then.
No
photo. The company you work for issues photo IDs, not the FAA. But a
'good' fake
ticket will get you a company ID.
So in other words, you\e the same as any cleaner or toilet tank emptier, if
you have the right i.d. you can get airside. Still utterly irrelevant to
your preening about how giving out your P.E. number woudl be a breach of
security, ya flaming putz
And yes, I can still walk right out onto the
Ramp with a toolbox, and no one gives me a second look.
*****. You woudl need the appropriate ID at least, you siad so yourself
above.
.
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| User: "Charly the Bastard" |
|
| Title: Re: Helios Air Crash |
19 Aug 2005 12:57:07 PM |
|
|
Charly the ***** wrote:
tw wrote:
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4304F387.4CA008DB@worldnet.att.net...
tw wrote:
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:430329F1.8CDE0B7E@worldnet.att.net...
The missing CVR may or may not be routine.
Who says it's missing?
After all, this is a foreign
carrier, and not bound by FARs.
You can bet your arse European operators are held to as, if not more,
stringent regulations as US ones.
It could be just a case of shoddy
maintinance, or the unit was in the 'shop' for repair ar the time of
the
flight.
Charly, retired Mechanic, you'll understand that I don't think posting
my
Certificate number woiuld be a good idea in a Post 9/11 world.
Not really, no. Why's that?
The latest report on the cable stated that only the casing for the CVR had
been
recovered. This was a couple days ago. There were initial reports of
witnesses
on the scene stating that the body parts in the wreckage were 'frozen
solid'.
Why no number? Because the 'license' is a piece of paper that even a moron
could counterfeit in less than an hour, given a good number in the
computer. A
mechanic's ticket is a Ramp Pass. It gets you out on the concrete with the
planes.
Get the ***** out of here. If the security in the US is anything like the
security at even the GA part of a British airfield (and Iäm sure it's a lot
tougher) you won't be getting airside without a swipe-card with your photo
on it at the VERY least. Simply chanting your license number into the card
reader isn't going to do you much good is it?
That's because England is a Police State. We don't have cameras on every lightpole
and narcs in every woodpile...yet. Up until this year, we didn't even have a
'standard drivers license'. All the vetting is done BEFORE licences and
certificates are issued. Aviation is the most heavily regulated industry in the US,
short of the government itself. By the time you get your ticket, the FAA knows
everything about you, so paper is enough. Of course, that's subject to change given
the Real ID Act, but I haven't gotten anything from the FAA about it yet.
Charly
.
|
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| User: "Tom" |
|
| Title: Re: Helios Air Crash |
20 Aug 2005 12:11:50 PM |
|
|
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:43061D70.EA01D537@worldnet.att.net...
Charly the ***** wrote:
tw wrote:
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4304F387.4CA008DB@worldnet.att.net...
tw wrote:
"Charly the *****" <nitecrawler7@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
message
news:430329F1.8CDE0B7E@worldnet.att.net...
The missing CVR may or may not be routine.
Who says it's missing?
After all, this is a foreign
carrier, and not bound by FARs.
You can bet your arse European operators are held to as, if not
more,
stringent regulations as US ones.
It could be just a case of shoddy
maintinance, or the unit was in the 'shop' for repair ar the
time of
the
flight.
Charly, retired Mechanic, you'll understand that I don't think
posting
my
Certificate number woiuld be a good idea in a Post 9/11 world.
Not really, no. Why's that?
The latest report on the cable stated that only the casing for the
CVR had
been
recovered. This was a couple days ago. There were initial reports of
witnesses
on the scene stating that the body parts in the wreckage were
'frozen
solid'.
Why no number? Because the 'license' is a piece of paper that even a
moron
could counterfeit in less than an hour, given a good number in the
computer. A
mechanic's ticket is a Ramp Pass. It gets you out on the concrete
with the
planes.
Get the ***** out of here. If the security in the US is anything like
the
security at even the GA part of a British airfield (and Iäm sure it's
a lot
tougher) you won't be getting airside without a swipe-card with your
photo
on it at the VERY least. Simply chanting your license number into the
card
reader isn't going to do you much good is it?
That's because England is a Police State. We don't have cameras on every
lightpole
and narcs in every woodpile...yet.
TOtally irrelevant to security measures at an airport
Up until this year, we didn't even have a
'standard drivers license'. All the vetting is done BEFORE licences and
certificates are issued.
In whcih case, the person in question would have to have an actual ID. not
merely know YOUR number. They\d also need to know you\re name, address where
you studied etc etc.
Aviation is the most heavily regulated industry in the US,
short of the government itself.
Yeah, whcih is why they\re choosy about who gets to go airside
By the time you get your ticket, the FAA knows
everything about you, so paper is enough. Of course, that's subject to
change given
the Real ID Act, but I haven't gotten anything from the FAA about it yet.
Charly
.
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| User: "FourCell" |
|
| Title: Re: Helios Air Crash |
17 Aug 2005 08:01:29 AM |
|
|
Air temperature drops 2.5F, for ech 1,000 feeet increase in
altitude.
Surface temperature, 90 F (Mediterranean, Mid-Summer), less
87.5 F, is still 2.5 F, not -70F.
This didn't happen in mid-Winter. It was a short-haul flight, and
bodies can't freeze solid at 2.5F in less than two hours.
In fact, if they'd thrown a blanket on, would have been
pretty cold (no wind chill), but not frozen solid in 2 hours.
.
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| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: Helios Air Crash |
17 Aug 2005 08:25:51 AM |
|
|
"FourCell" <fourcell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124282997.409503.194330@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Air temperature drops 2.5F, for ech 1,000 feeet increase in
altitude.
Where did you pull that from? Temperature lapse rates are NOT constant., you
gibbering fucking ignorant luddite:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/ballonsolaire/en-theorie2.htm
"according to the International Standard Atmosphere :
- In the troposphere (at our latitudes : from the ground up to 11000m -
36.000 ft), the temperature decrease at a rate of 6,5°C per km. This
variation of temperature with the altitude is called standard atmosphere
temperature gradient.
- At the beginning of the stratosphere (at our latitudes : from 11000m up to
20000m - 65.600 ft), the temperature remain constant at -56,5°C or -69,7°F
or 216,6°K."
Surface temperature, 90 F (Mediterranean, Mid-Summer),
Surface temperature is largely irrelevant. Doubly so when you have erroneous
figures on the temperature lapse rate..
less 87.5 F, is still 2.5 F, not -70F.
Temp at 40,000 feet can be reckoned to be around -50 c, in fact. See above.
This didn't happen in mid-Winter.
Doesn't matter a ***** whether it's winter or summer
" from 11000m up to 20000m - 65.600 ft), the temperature **remain constant**
at -56,5°C or -69,7°F or 216,6°K."
It was a short-haul flight, and
bodies can't freeze solid at 2.5F in less than two hours.
In fact, if they'd thrown a blanket on, would have been
pretty cold (no wind chill), but not frozen solid in 2 hours.
Once again, WHO said ANYONE was "frozen solid"? The coroner who has examined
about 20 bodies so far says he found signs that they had circulation and
breathing when they died.
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| User: "jay j bee" |
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| Title: Re: Helios Air Crash |
16 Aug 2005 11:35:50 PM |
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wrote:
The Helios Air Crash
By Peter Davenport
National UFO Reporting Center
director@ufocenter.com
8-15-5
Already, the "push" is on to explain the crash yesterday of Helios
Flight 522 in Greece as having been caused by faulty pressurization
equipment. That certainly is a possibility, but there is another
possible explanation, which no one appears to be talking about in the
corporate news media...
Visitors to your website certainly recall that several months ago, the
TSA announced that cigarette lighters no longer would be allowed
aboard commercial aircraft. At the time of the announcement, the
authorities did not state what the purpose of that policy change was,
but I suspect that most people assumed that its purpose was to prevent
passengers from being able to start campfires in the cabin, ignite
fuses, etc.. However, that wasn't my reaction to that announcement, by
any means...
There are many organic chemicals available, the fumes of which will
render humans unconscious very quickly. The best evidence of the
existence of such chemicals is their use by the Russian security
forces, when they stormed the theater in Moscow in October 2002 to
free hostages being held there by Chechnyen kidnappers. According to
the reports at the time, the occupants of the theater fell unconscious
immediately after gasses were pumped into the theater through the
ventilation system, and many of the occupants, both kidnappers and
hostages, died from subsequent asphyxiation.
Hence, TSA,s ban on cigarette lighters may have been implemented, in
order to prevent bad guys from being able surreptitiously to carry
such chemicals, concealed as lighter fluid, aboard a commercial
airliner.
I mention all of this because the events reported for the crash of the
Helios flight yesterday appear to be not inconsistent with the
scenario I describe above. In fact, some elements of the reports
coming from Greece seem inconsistent with a simple depressurization of
the aircraft. Although I am not well versed in the pressurization
system of a Boeing 737, or any other type of airliner, I suspect that
the oxygen masks are designed to deploy immediately in the event of a
cabin depressurization, and I suspect that the crew's oxygen masks
would deploy sooner, and faster, still.
Hence, it is not clear to me why almost everyone aboard the plane,
including the cockpit crew, fell unconscious. Moreover, it seems
strange that some of the occupants of the plane were seen still moving
about the cabin, and perhaps even the cockpit, when the F-16's
intercepted the airliner. If the pressurization event was so sudden
and dramatic that even the crew was quickly rendered unconscious, it
seems odd to me that anyone would be left conscious, and, therefore,
able to move about the aircraft.
One other comment about the reports that are being released today, the
day after the crash... The rescuers allegedly have reported that some
of the bodies of the victims were found "frozen solid." I am not an
expert in such matters, but it seems unusual to me that human bodies
could be frozen so quickly, i.e. in less than two hours, aboard an
airliner, particularly if the passengers were still alive and
insulated by clothing. If these reports about the bodies are true, it
suggests to me that the passengers may have died earlier in the
flight, which would lead to much more rapid chilling and freezing of
their remains.
Alternatively, if the reports are not true, that fact would make me
wonder whether the authorities know or suspect what may have happened,
and they are building a "web of disinformation, in order to mislead
the public. Shoulder-launched missiles may not be the only potential
threat to commercial aviation!!
I write, principally, Jeff, hoping to alert those of your readers who
fly commercial airliners for a living to the effect that the U. S.
government may not be giving us "mere" citizens all the information
they may possess regarding possible threats to commercial aviation. It
will be interesting to see whether forensic analysis of the victims
shows any sign of organic toxins in the victims' remains.
However, even if such a discovery were made at autopsy, I suspect the
governmental agencies and airline executives would have a vested
interest in keeping such information concealed from the public. Their
principal objective, I suspect, would be to keep the airlines flying,
and passengers paying for tickets, no matter what unseen risks there
may be.
If I were an airline pilot, I would be tempted to see to it that at
least one crew member in the cockpit was wearing an oxygen mask at all
times, in order to avoid the risks I describe above. In addition, I
would be tempted to contact the Chief Pilot of my airline, in order to
apprise all pilots of the potential risks they may face in the
cockpit.
Peter B. Davenport, Seattle, WA Commercial Pilot Certificate #2263995
I support your sugestions on whearing oxigen masks permanently for at
least one (co-) pilot.
But there is a lot to say for a "normal cover-up".
The company has a dubious administration and there are rumors that the
crew refused to make the flight. After some time talking they finaly
where convinced to do it anyway.
And oh yeah... the blackbox is missing!
But that does not matter in the case of me oposing your suspicion.
JayJBee
"How can we live together, with suspicious mind?
Elvis is dead, long live jayjbee!"
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