As if Columbine and Oklahoma have not taught us anything.
It appears that Musslim children are no more susceptible to the anguish
of growing up in modern society than and Christian (or other) child in
North America.
The latest findings in Britain seem to have given this 'full validity'!!!
When I was young, it was know as rebelling against the system - and it still is. Its
just that now, stealing a car is not enough.
As for ways to spot these types of 'deviations'. Believe it or not, it is no different
then
spotting you next High School Bomber!!! It is usually associated to 'above' average
students who feel cut off from the rest of the 'IN' crowd for reasons of
'indifference'
(or more commonly, they feel the need for their lifestyle to be different and the
only CORRECT
lifestyle).
Most parents refuse to spot these lifestyle changes in their 'offspring', and this is
where
the TRUE Problem is!
The Musslim Community that wishes for a better life here in North America should not
be held
fully accountable for the actions of their children. After all, they are just
bringing up their children the best the can, and their children are just falling into
the 'trap' of trying to fit in. The real problem lies in the ability for all parents
(and I mean "All Parents") to spot improper behavior of there Offspring.
"An once of prevention out measures a pound of obscure."
Working Towards A Better World For All Of Us.
:-(]
.
|
|
| User: " John F Lemke" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 06:53:45 PM |
|
|
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
.
|
|
|
| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 07:48:47 PM |
|
|
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992? And your
source?
.
|
|
|
| User: " John F Lemke" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 08:00:50 PM |
|
|
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122338927.269122.19260@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far
to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due
to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no
evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an
operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of
my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have
nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the
names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of
traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for
Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on
his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992?
Slow down, again. Who said he committed treason in '92? He was simply
fired for violating the rules, ethics. Seems to be a couple of precedents
in there.
And your source?
Dig, Stephen. :-) You'll find one of them to be one of the sources you've
used in the past.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 08:07:47 PM |
|
|
John F Lemke wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122338927.269122.19260@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far
to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due
to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no
evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an
operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of
my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have
nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the
names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of
traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for
Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on
his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992?
Slow down, again. Who said he committed treason in '92? He was simply
fired for violating the rules, ethics. Seems to be a couple of precedents
in there.
And your source?
Dig, Stephen. :-) You'll find one of them to be one of the sources you've
used in the past.
No, as others here have correctly lectured to me in the past, it is the
responsibilty of the person making the claim to provide the source. And
as for a source I've used in the past, that's wonderful. I don't expect
an unbiased source to provide only one point of view. And by the way,
Jon, my name is not Stephen.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Marvin The Paranoid Android" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 08:18:26 PM |
|
|
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122338927.269122.19260@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far
to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due
to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no
evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an
operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of
my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have
nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the
names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of
traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for
Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on
his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992?
Slow down, again. Who said he committed treason in '92? He was simply
fired for violating the rules, ethics. Seems to be a couple of precedents
in there.
And your source?
Dig, Stephen. :-) You'll find one of them to be one of the sources you've
used in the past.
No, as others here have correctly lectured to me in the past, it is the
responsibilty of the person making the claim to provide the source. And
as for a source I've used in the past, that's wonderful. I don't expect
an unbiased source to provide only one point of view. And by the way,
Jon, my name is not Stephen.
http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/112133564191280.xml&coll=7
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-rove13jul13,0,6821835.story?coll=ny-leadnationalnews-headlines
-- bottom of the page
.
|
|
|
| User: " John F Lemke" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 08:23:30 PM |
|
|
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122340746.06bf66000131c682055dab2b48bf1410@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/112133564191280.xml&coll=7
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-rove13jul13,0,6821835.story?coll=ny-leadnationalnews-headlines
-- bottom of the page
http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/showcase/la-na-rove13jul13.story?page=2
.
|
|
|
| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 09:38:45 PM |
|
|
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122340746.06bf66000131c682055dab2b48bf1410@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/112133564191280.xml&coll=7
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-rove13jul13,0,6821835.story?coll=ny-leadnationalnews-headlines
-- bottom of the page
http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/showcase/la-na-rove13jul13.story?page=2
You're right, I have used the LA Times as a source. But I must have
missed where it says Rove was proven to have leaked something. And I'm
not sure how this has anything to do with my original statement to
Woods, which was questioning her claim that she's a moderate.
.
|
|
|
| User: " John F Lemke" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
26 Jul 2005 06:32:51 AM |
|
|
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122345525.556339.19240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122340746.06bf66000131c682055dab2b48bf1410@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/112133564191280.xml&coll=7
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-rove13jul13,0,6821835.story?coll=ny-leadnationalnews-headlines
-- bottom of the page
http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/showcase/la-na-rove13jul13.story?page=2
You're right, I have used the LA Times as a source. But I must have
missed where it says Rove was proven to have leaked something. And I'm
not sure how this has anything to do with my original statement to
Woods, which was questioning her claim that she's a moderate.
No, he was just fired from a pretty good job for leaking something. :-)
It shows that Mr. Rove has a leaking propensity. That sort of thing makes
people extremely unhappy. Even people who have mellowed in their old age.
It's bad enough to expose CIA operatives in the field. It's extremely
aggravating, perhaps treasonous, when CIA operatives are exposed by people
in very high office. There's less immenent personal danger in that,
perhaps, but it's no less dangerous to our system in the long run.
I wonder if Mr. Rove ever had to take an oath to protect the constitution.
Whether he did or not I wonder if he was protecting the constitution when he
outed Ms. Plame. I think it was mostly a matter of playing cheap politics
with someone's life, someone's career and escalating cheap politics to
extreme levels.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 09:08:35 PM |
|
|
Marvin The Paranoid Android wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122338927.269122.19260@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far
to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due
to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no
evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an
operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of
my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have
nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the
names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of
traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for
Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on
his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992?
Slow down, again. Who said he committed treason in '92? He was simply
fired for violating the rules, ethics. Seems to be a couple of precedents
in there.
And your source?
Dig, Stephen. :-) You'll find one of them to be one of the sources you've
used in the past.
No, as others here have correctly lectured to me in the past, it is the
responsibilty of the person making the claim to provide the source. And
as for a source I've used in the past, that's wonderful. I don't expect
an unbiased source to provide only one point of view. And by the way,
Jon, my name is not Stephen.
http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/112133564191280.xml&coll=7
A letter to the editor?
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-rove13jul13,0,6821835.story?coll=ny-leadnationalnews-headlines
-- bottom of the page
Yes, it makes a vague claim of some possibility. Do you have a more
solid reference?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 08:19:31 PM |
|
|
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992? And your
source?
Interestingly, John didn't claim that Rove broke any law in 1992, merely
that Bush, Sr. fired him. Oh, and he also provided a quote from Bush,
Sr. that states the Republican canon on what a traitor is.
Woods
.
|
|
|
| User: " John F Lemke" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 08:24:54 PM |
|
|
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:DcgFe.175458$g5.111153@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due
to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an
operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of
my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have
nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the
names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of
traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for
Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on
his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992? And your
source?
Interestingly, John didn't claim that Rove broke any law in 1992, merely
that Bush, Sr. fired him. Oh, and he also provided a quote from Bush,
Sr. that states the Republican canon on what a traitor is.
Woods
Ever steady, always on the beam, constantly insightful Woods. :-)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 09:40:31 PM |
|
|
John F Lemke wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:DcgFe.175458$g5.111153@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due
to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an
operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of
my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have
nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the
names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of
traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for
Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on
his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992? And your
source?
Interestingly, John didn't claim that Rove broke any law in 1992, merely
that Bush, Sr. fired him. Oh, and he also provided a quote from Bush,
Sr. that states the Republican canon on what a traitor is.
Woods
Ever steady, always on the beam, constantly insightful
and evermore extreme
Woods. :-)
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 08:38:38 PM |
|
|
John F Lemke wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:DcgFe.175458$g5.111153@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due
to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an
operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of
my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have
nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the
names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of
traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for
Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on
his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992? And your
source?
Interestingly, John didn't claim that Rove broke any law in 1992, merely
that Bush, Sr. fired him. Oh, and he also provided a quote from Bush,
Sr. that states the Republican canon on what a traitor is.
Woods
Ever steady, always on the beam, constantly insightful Woods. :-)
Flatterer!
(Your check is in the mail! <g>)
Woods
.
|
|
|
| User: " John F Lemke" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 09:13:07 PM |
|
|
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:yugFe.68621$0i3.18156@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Interestingly, John didn't claim that Rove broke any law in 1992, merely
that Bush, Sr. fired him. Oh, and he also provided a quote from Bush,
Sr. that states the Republican canon on what a traitor is.
Woods
JFL says:
Ever steady, always on the beam, constantly insightful Woods. :-)
Flatterer!
(Your check is in the mail! <g>)
Woods
:-)
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 09:06:09 PM |
|
|
Woodswun wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992? And your
source?
Interestingly, John didn't claim that Rove broke any law in 1992, merely
that Bush, Sr. fired him.
Oh, I thought the topic under discussion was Rove's "act of treason" as
you so eloquently put it.
Oh, and he also provided a quote from Bush, Sr. that states the
Republican canon on what a traitor is.
Yes, and you're jumping to the conclusion that Rove did what Bush, Sr.
was talking about in that quote. It is your leap to "an act of treason"
that makes you an extremist.
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
26 Jul 2005 04:41:22 PM |
|
|
Steven Douglas wrote:
Woodswun wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992? And your
source?
Interestingly, John didn't claim that Rove broke any law in 1992, merely
that Bush, Sr. fired him.
Oh, I thought the topic under discussion was Rove's "act of treason" as
you so eloquently put it.
Yes, that post was just demonstrating Rove's MO. That's "modus
operendi", or the way he works. IE - slime.
Oh, and he also provided a quote from Bush, Sr. that states the
Republican canon on what a traitor is.
Yes, and you're jumping to the conclusion that Rove did what Bush, Sr.
was talking about in that quote. It is your leap to "an act of treason"
that makes you an extremist.
Rove admitted that he outed her, I didn't have to exert myself in the
least. You sure are jumping through hoops to make it not true, though.
Woods
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
26 Jul 2005 10:12:07 PM |
|
|
Woodswun wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
Woodswun wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992? And your
source?
Interestingly, John didn't claim that Rove broke any law in 1992, merely
that Bush, Sr. fired him.
Oh, I thought the topic under discussion was Rove's "act of treason" as
you so eloquently put it.
Yes, that post was just demonstrating Rove's MO. That's "modus
operendi", or the way he works. IE - slime.
Right, and just being "slime" in your opinion, is enough to convict
someone of treason. Okay.
Oh, and he also provided a quote from Bush, Sr. that states the
Republican canon on what a traitor is.
Yes, and you're jumping to the conclusion that Rove did what Bush, Sr.
was talking about in that quote. It is your leap to "an act of treason"
that makes you an extremist.
Rove admitted that he outed her, I didn't have to exert myself in the
least. You sure are jumping through hoops to make it not true, though.
No, I'm jumping through hoops to remind you that you convicted Rove of
treason without evidence, and that makes you immoderate.
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
27 Jul 2005 04:20:08 PM |
|
|
Steven Douglas wrote:
Woodswun wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
Woodswun wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992? And your
source?
Interestingly, John didn't claim that Rove broke any law in 1992, merely
that Bush, Sr. fired him.
Oh, I thought the topic under discussion was Rove's "act of treason" as
you so eloquently put it.
Yes, that post was just demonstrating Rove's MO. That's "modus
operendi", or the way he works. IE - slime.
Right, and just being "slime" in your opinion, is enough to convict
someone of treason. Okay.
Naturally, you're wrong again. It's quite common for past behavior to
be cited in regards to criminal behavior. Why else bother to keep rap
sheets?
Oh, and he also provided a quote from Bush, Sr. that states the
Republican canon on what a traitor is.
Yes, and you're jumping to the conclusion that Rove did what Bush, Sr.
was talking about in that quote. It is your leap to "an act of treason"
that makes you an extremist.
Rove admitted that he outed her, I didn't have to exert myself in the
least. You sure are jumping through hoops to make it not true, though.
No, I'm jumping through hoops to remind you that you convicted Rove of
treason without evidence, and that makes you immoderate.
Reaching a logical conclusion, and having an opinion, based on strong
evidencevmakes someone "immoderate"?!? Woah - hold the presses,
breaking news on Stephen's new definition!!!
LOL!
Woods
.
|
|
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| User: "Marvin The Paranoid Android" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
27 Jul 2005 06:23:39 PM |
|
|
Woodswun wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
Woodswun wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
Woodswun wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is
"far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of
"moderate" due to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no
evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an
operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the
best of my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I
have nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing
the names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of
traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for
Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone
experienced on his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992? And your
source?
Interestingly, John didn't claim that Rove broke any law in 1992,
merely
that Bush, Sr. fired him.
Oh, I thought the topic under discussion was Rove's "act of treason" as
you so eloquently put it.
Yes, that post was just demonstrating Rove's MO. That's "modus
operendi", or the way he works. IE - slime.
Right, and just being "slime" in your opinion, is enough to convict
someone of treason. Okay.
Naturally, you're wrong again. It's quite common for past behavior to
be cited in regards to criminal behavior. Why else bother to keep rap
sheets?
What was that saying about a zebra and it's stripes?? :-D
Oh, and he also provided a quote from Bush, Sr. that states the
Republican canon on what a traitor is.
Yes, and you're jumping to the conclusion that Rove did what Bush, Sr.
was talking about in that quote. It is your leap to "an act of treason"
that makes you an extremist.
Rove admitted that he outed her, I didn't have to exert myself in the
least. You sure are jumping through hoops to make it not true, though.
No, I'm jumping through hoops to remind you that you convicted Rove of
treason without evidence, and that makes you immoderate.
Reaching a logical conclusion, and having an opinion, based on strong
evidencevmakes someone "immoderate"?!? Woah - hold the presses,
breaking news on Stephen's new definition!!!
LOL!
Woods
I like Steven. Debating or arguing with him is good fun. He changes
tactics and keeps you on your toes as I hope we do for him.
I believe he realizes the gravity of Rove's 'apparent' indiscretion. I
also believe he's read the news concerning the investigation and doesn't
really need us to remind him of Time's Matt Coopers testimony or Rove's
lawyer's ( Luskin? ) denial that Rove gave Time clearance to reveal Rove
as the source. But, he's still a believer in this Admin or the President
or whatever ... he's tenacious. But he's civil and I have to say I do
look forward to his posts and replies.
But ... I have no idea why he's hammering away at your 'moderatism' ...
it seems almost 'extremist'. Which is still all good fun!!
Tally Ho!
-Der Marv
.
|
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|
| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
27 Jul 2005 07:34:50 PM |
|
|
Marvin The Paranoid Android wrote:
Woodswun wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
Woodswun wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
Woodswun wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is
"far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of
"moderate" due to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no
evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse"
him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an
operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the
best of my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I
have nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by
exposing the names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of
traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for
Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone
experienced on his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992? And your
source?
Interestingly, John didn't claim that Rove broke any law in 1992,
merely
that Bush, Sr. fired him.
Oh, I thought the topic under discussion was Rove's "act of
treason" as
you so eloquently put it.
Yes, that post was just demonstrating Rove's MO. That's "modus
operendi", or the way he works. IE - slime.
Right, and just being "slime" in your opinion, is enough to convict
someone of treason. Okay.
Naturally, you're wrong again. It's quite common for past behavior to
be cited in regards to criminal behavior. Why else bother to keep rap
sheets?
What was that saying about a zebra and it's stripes?? :-D
Oh, and he also provided a quote from Bush, Sr. that states the
Republican canon on what a traitor is.
Yes, and you're jumping to the conclusion that Rove did what Bush, Sr.
was talking about in that quote. It is your leap to "an act of
treason"
that makes you an extremist.
Rove admitted that he outed her, I didn't have to exert myself in the
least. You sure are jumping through hoops to make it not true, though.
No, I'm jumping through hoops to remind you that you convicted Rove of
treason without evidence, and that makes you immoderate.
Reaching a logical conclusion, and having an opinion, based on strong
evidencevmakes someone "immoderate"?!? Woah - hold the presses,
breaking news on Stephen's new definition!!!
LOL!
Woods
I like Steven. Debating or arguing with him is good fun. He changes
tactics and keeps you on your toes as I hope we do for him.
I believe he realizes the gravity of Rove's 'apparent' indiscretion. I
also believe he's read the news concerning the investigation and doesn't
really need us to remind him of Time's Matt Coopers testimony or Rove's
lawyer's ( Luskin? ) denial that Rove gave Time clearance to reveal Rove
as the source. But, he's still a believer in this Admin or the President
or whatever ... he's tenacious. But he's civil and I have to say I do
look forward to his posts and replies.
But ... I have no idea why he's hammering away at your 'moderatism' ...
it seems almost 'extremist'. Which is still all good fun!!
Yup, I'm certainly having fun with it!
Woods
Tally Ho!
-Der Marv
.
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| User: "Marvin The Paranoid Android" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 07:53:28 PM |
|
|
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992? And your
source?
None at all and personally I'm shocked that Lemke would stoop as low as
he has here to slime Karl Rove.
Mosbacher wasn't a covert CIA agent either ... unbelieveable how
leftists will stoop to ever new lows to endanger the forces fighting
terrorism.
.
|
|
|
| User: " John F Lemke" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 08:11:54 PM |
|
|
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122339409.06caac412ba58f370756401558a293a2@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
John F Lemke wrote:
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122331120.82102164636112b42a3f74aeb8a01a0a@teranews...
Steven Douglas wrote:
A) Since you're a leftist, anything to the right of liberal is "far to
the Right." I question your self-proclaimed status of "moderate" due
to
your conclusion that Rove committed treason, when there is no evidence
at this time to back up your claim. Even to merely "accuse" him of
treason at this point would make you an extremist.
Matt Cooper ( Time reporter ) stated Rove revealed Plame as an
operative
married to Joseph Wilson. Rove confirmed this himself, to the best of
my
knowledge. The "accusations" are coming from the grand jury.
From another extremist:
"Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have
nothing
but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the
names
of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of
traitors." -
George H. W. Bush at the naming of the George Bush Center for
Intelligence.
Rove was fired from the Bush the 41st campaign in '92 for leaking
information to Robert Novak. Maybe Shrub needed someone experienced on
his
team. Such poetry.
Tsk, tsk..............
I see, what law concerning treason did Rove break in 1992? And your
source?
None at all and personally I'm shocked that Lemke would stoop as low as
he has here to slime Karl Rove.
Mosbacher wasn't a covert CIA agent either ... unbelieveable how
leftists will stoop to ever new lows to endanger the forces fighting
terrorism.
:-0 I'd feel horrible if I'd labeled Rove a traitor for what he did in '92.
George the 41st might end up doing that before long for the Plame travesty.
At least he won't have to fire Rove again THIS time.
Dry, Marv, very dry. Good freakin' job. :-)
.
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 08:22:26 PM |
|
|
" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote in message
news:v8adnQKZwav4E3jfRVn-jw@locallink.net...
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122339409.06caac412ba58f370756401558a293a2@teranews...
Mosbacher wasn't a covert CIA agent either ...
Marv knows all about it.
Of course Rove denied it so it must not be true. Funny how they fired him
for it anyway.
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 08:37:45 PM |
|
|
John F Lemke wrote:
" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote in message
news:v8adnQKZwav4E3jfRVn-jw@locallink.net...
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122339409.06caac412ba58f370756401558a293a2@teranews...
Mosbacher wasn't a covert CIA agent either ...
Marv knows all about it.
Of course Rove denied it so it must not be true. Funny how they fired him
for it anyway.
Bush, Sr. was former director of the CIA. There's no way he made a
mistake in firing Rove.
Woods
.
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
25 Jul 2005 09:13:30 PM |
|
|
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:JtgFe.68618$0i3.57173@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
John F Lemke wrote:
" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote in message
news:v8adnQKZwav4E3jfRVn-jw@locallink.net...
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:1122339409.06caac412ba58f370756401558a293a2@teranews...
Mosbacher wasn't a covert CIA agent either ...
Marv knows all about it.
Of course Rove denied it so it must not be true. Funny how they fired
him
for it anyway.
Bush, Sr. was former director of the CIA. There's no way he made a
mistake in firing Rove.
Woods
Interesting point.
.
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| User: "Marvin The Paranoid Android" |
|
| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
20 Jul 2005 06:21:02 PM |
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|
Steven Douglas wrote:
Marvin The Paranoid Android wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
What force in this world is PURPOSELY killing innocent civilians in
Iraq? Who was that guy who blew himself up the other day while standing
next to a gasoline tanker truck? That one blast killed more people than
the four London terrorist bombs. Where is the ANGER with the terrorists
in Iraq? Oh that's right, we're more angry with Karl Rove than we are
with terrorist murderers of innocent civilians in Iraq, aren't we you
bunch of wonderful humanitarian leftists?
What does Karl Rove have to do with terrorists in Iraq?
Not a damned thing.
::: coffee spew :::
*sigh*
Of course that's your reaction, because you're more angry with Karl
Rove than you are with the murderous terrorists.
Yes, 'of course', just as you expected of a 'leftist', right?
FYI, up here in Canuckistan I vote Conservative.
And ... you'll have to refresh me of your reaction over Rummy's cool
'Shock & Awe'. Cool taglines didn't mean it was another episode of 'The
A-Team' where a million bullets let fly in an hour and no one gets hurt.
Does it all just depend on who's killing the innocent?
Karl Rove is Bush's Brain. Bush's Brain decided invading Iraq was
justified because of purported WMD's.
Did you ever answer my question: what would have happened if Saddam
Hussein HAD cooperated with the Un inspectors, as required by
Resolution 1441? If Saddam HAD cooperated, would Rove have been able to
push ahead with his plot?
I-M-M-I-N-E-N-T T-H-R-E-A-T ... it *wasnt* there ...
How often to I have to say this -- the words "imminent threat" in
Bush's State of the Union address were stated in this context:
"Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent.
Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions,
politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is
permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all
recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and
restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an
option." (Applause.)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html
the invasion wasn't justified from a legal standpoint nor from a
militarily sound standpoint.
I'm constantly amazed at how some arguments used in this group are
simply invalid. For example,
"Saddam DID cooperate with the inspectors." Wrong.
"Bush said Iraq was an imminent threat." Wrong.
Invalid?? LOL ... you, the one who trounces out the old UN 1441, yet the
UNSC never gave it's OK for the US and UK to use force in Iraq.
You use a UN resolution to justify the invasion, yet it was the UN that
wanted to give the weapons inspectors more then a lousy 3 months to
perform their job. Hans Blix didn't disagree with extending the inspections.
Sorry, but you're projecting.
Continue to be amazed if you must ...
That "legal standpoint" argument is also getting old. Exactly what
legal statute was violated? And why must this group keep arguing the
same invalid points over and over again?
Because you still don't get it. The Downing St Memo raised legitimate
and 'valid' doubts as to the legality of the invasion.
As for the militarily sound standpoint, there is no doubt mistakes were
made. But then mistakes are made in every war. Many men died on D-Day
in the invasion of France in 1944. Many more men died in the Battle of
the Bulge, which was not anticipated and possibly should have been.
It's the nature of war that mistakes will be made.
Hmmm ... I know you're not saying Saddam's army was comparable to the
German Army, but ....
It seems Bush ejaculated prematurely. If he had waited and given the UN
inspectors more time he either would have found out that Saddam didn't
have WMD's or a WMD program, that the equipment and weapons had been
shipped to Syria, or that he did have a secret WMD program in place and
had traditional allies to help without incurring the heavy costs that
the US has already borne in lives and money. But it's too late now ...
and someone needs to answer the question ... 'Why?'
Ultimately, you have once again mangaged to avoid my question. What
would have happened IF Saddam Hussein HAD cooperated with the UN
inspectors, as he was required to do by Resolution 1441?
I can't answer that, because I honestly can't say if BushCo would have
accepted that.
I thought Bush did a great job at the UN in Nov '02 getting weapons
inspectors back into Iraq. What troubled me were his speeches following
where he consistently accused Hussein of hiding WMDs ... or being
uncoooperative. Blix felt that progress was being made.
So, define 'cooperation' in Bush-Speak, and then it will be easier to
answer.
Would there be a force PURPOSELY killing innocent civilians in Iraq if
it wasn't for Karl Rove? Would there be the guy blowing himself up by a
fuel tanker if it wasn't for Karl Rove?
As I said in my previous post, some people are more angry with Karl
Rove than they are with the actual terrorists who are doing the actual
killing.
<blink>
I know, it is somtimes difficult to get past misdirected anger and
place it where it actually beongs -- and right now it belongs on the
murderous terrorists in Iraq who are killing and maiming innocent
civlians -- can't you direct some of your anger where it actually
belongs? While there was approprite anger with the London terrorists,
there is an unusual lack of anger with the terrorists in Iraq. I've
found myself <blinking> about that lack of anger for quite some time.
I may have likewise missed your <blinking> during 'Shock & Awe'.
When did the terrorists/insurgents show up in Iraq?
I see, the terrorists' actions are secondary because it's all Karl
Rove's fault. And before you blink, read it again and think about it. I
think you explain it all with your next remark below:
Iraq was a stable region before Iraq was liberated. You haven't noticed
the difference?
Karl Rove is a scumbag.
Iraq is a mess and a free-for-all killing ground.
Connect the dots.
I did that when I said some of you are more angry with Karl Rove than
you are with the murderous terrorists in Iraq. And in your case, you
just confirmed it.
Maybe in your world.
Yes, it's obvious we inhabit different worlds of reality.
Absolutely.
I do enjoy debating ( sometimes heatedly ) and pointing out and having
pointed out that we hold different viewpoints. We've avoided calling
each other 'douchebags', 'idiots', 'faggots' and all the other usual
slurs, so I guess there's still some hope! :O
You seem to think Rove and BushCo have no blood on their hands from the
current mess in Iraq.
How about the leaders of UK, Australia, Italy, Poland, Czech Republic,
and about 30 others? Is it ALL Karl Rove's fault? And how about Saddam
Hussein himself? Have you answered my question concerning his
cooperation yet?
Without US committment, there would be no war in Iraq. Without Rove,
there would be no Bush Presidency. I apologize for the 'connect the
dots' comment, but for every action there is a cause.
Rove's current predicament is a result of this criminal Admin's cherry
picking of intelligence
And apparently all the other intelligence agencies of the world who
agreed, including France, Germany, and Russia.
France, Germany and Russia also accepted the reliability of their
intelligence too and were willing to give Blix and the UN inspectors
more then 3 months to do their job. Blix convinced them of this.
BushCo was operating by a different agenda.
and character asassination of dissentors to make the case for the
invasion.
Whose character was assassinated? The guy who went to Niger and
disagreed with UK's intelligence?
I'll take that to be a rhetorical question.
Wait for the inquiries and trials to get underway ... maybe then we'll
see some of the ugly truths come out.
In your dreams -- in your world.
World's collide.
Cheers!
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: How To Spot Your Neighborhood Terrorist. |
20 Jul 2005 10:22:32 PM |
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Marvin The Paranoid Android wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
Marvin The Paranoid Android wrote:
Steven Douglas wrote:
What force in this world is PURPOSELY killing innocent civilians in
Iraq? Who was that guy who blew himself up the other day while standing
next to a gasoline tanker truck? That one blast killed more people than
the four London terrorist bombs. Where is the ANGER with the terrorists
in Iraq? Oh that's right, we're more angry with Karl Rove than we are
with terrorist murderers of innocent civilians in Iraq, aren't we you
bunch of wonderful humanitarian leftists?
What does Karl Rove have to do with terrorists in Iraq?
Not a damned thing.
::: coffee spew :::
*sigh*
Of course that's your reaction, because you're more angry with Karl
Rove than you are with the murderous terrorists.
Yes, 'of course', just as you expected of a 'leftist', right?
FYI, up here in Canuckistan I vote Conservative.
You and tw are Conservatives, and I'm a liberal (seriously, I am a
liberal in the tradition of John F. Kennedy).
And ... you'll have to refresh me of your reaction over Rummy's cool
'Shock & Awe'. Cool taglines didn't mean it was another episode of 'The
A-Team' where a million bullets let fly in an hour and no one gets hurt.
I think telling Saddam we were going to use "Shock and Awe" was to
shake him up before anything even happened. Actually, the author of the
"Shock and Awe" strategy, Harlan K. Ullman, says the US military did
not actually use Shock and Awe.
Does it all just depend on who's killing the innocent?
It all depends on who is purposely targeting the innocent. Of course
every civilian death is tragic. Dear God, why didn't Saddam Hussein
cooperate with the inspectors?
Karl Rove is Bush's Brain. Bush's Brain decided invading Iraq was
justified because of purported WMD's.
Did you ever answer my question: what would have happened if Saddam
Hussein HAD cooperated with the Un inspectors, as required by
Resolution 1441? If Saddam HAD cooperated, would Rove have been able to
push ahead with his plot?
I-M-M-I-N-E-N-T T-H-R-E-A-T ... it *wasnt* there ...
How often to I have to say this -- the words "imminent threat" in
Bush's State of the Union address were stated in this context:
"Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent.
Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions,
politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is
permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all
recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and
restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an
option." (Applause.)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030128-19.html
the invasion wasn't justified from a legal standpoint nor from a
militarily sound standpoint.
I'm constantly amazed at how some arguments used in this group are
simply invalid. For example,
"Saddam DID cooperate with the inspectors." Wrong.
"Bush said Iraq was an imminent threat." Wrong.
Invalid?? LOL ... you, the one who trounces out the old UN 1441, yet the
UNSC never gave it's OK for the US and UK to use force in Iraq.
The US and UK did not need a further resolution. Former President Bill
Clinton has said Bush, Blair and company did not need a further
resolution.
You use a UN resolution to justify the invasion, yet it was the UN that
wanted to give the weapons inspectors more then a lousy 3 months to
perform their job. Hans Blix didn't disagree with extending the inspections.
Sorry, but you're projecting.
Continue to be amazed if you must ...
It was November 2002 when UN Resoluton 1441 was passed, calling on Iraq
to allow the return of UN inspectors. That resolution threatened severe
consequences for failure to cooperate, so Iraq allowed the inspectors
to return after a 4 year absence.
Two months later, on January 31, 2003, Hans Blix said the Iraqis "have
not been taking the questions seriously."
Article: "Blix sees no new Iraqi cooperation"
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/30/sprj.irq.wrap/
Iraq was reminded of 1441's threat of severe consequences. Rather than
join in the call for Saddam Hussein to cooperate, antiwar activists in
the US and around the world instead blamed President Bush and labeled
him a warmonger.
And so, another 3 weeks after Hans Blix said Iraq was uncooperative, we
read this:
"BAGHDAD, Iraq, Feb. 19 -- President Saddam Hussein's government,
apparently emboldened by antiwar sentiment at the U.N. Security Council
and in worldwide street protests, has not followed through on its
promises of increased cooperation with U.N. arms inspectors, according
to inspectors in Iraq."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A32416-2003Feb19?language=printer
On March 7, Hans Blix addressed the Security Council. Knowing Iraq's
lack of cooperation was causing the threat of severe consequences to
draw ever more near, he appeared to paint a rosy picture of Iraq's
cooperation in the entirety of his address. But try as he might, he
couldn't hide Saddam's blatant lack of cooperation completely, as
selected quotes point out:
"Mr. President, Iraq, with a highly developed administrative system,
should be able to provide more documentary evidence about its
proscribed weapons programs. Only a few new such documents have come to
light so far and been handed over since we began inspections. It was a
disappointment that Iraq's declaration of the 7th of December did not
bring new documentary evidence."
"One can hardly avoid the impression that after a period of somewhat
reluctant cooperation, there's been an acceleration of initiatives from
the Iraqi side since the end of January. This is welcome. But the value
of these measures must be soberly judged by how many question marks
they actually succeed in straightening out.
"This is not yet clear.
"Against this background, the question is now asked whether Iraq has
cooperated, 'immediately, unconditionally and actively,' with UNMOVIC,
as is required under Paragraph 9 of Resolution 1441. The answers can be
seen from the factor descriptions that I have provided."
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/07/sprj.irq.un.transcript.blix/
[Quoting CBS News] - Secretary of State Colin Powell urged members to
read Blix's 167-page report detailing a long list of unanswered
questions about Iraq's chemical, biological and missile programs over
the past 12 years, which Powell called "chilling" and "damning."
Portions of the document, obtained by CBS News, list questions about
the types and numbers of chemical and biological agents for which Iraq
has never accounted. It states that inspectors "cannot discount the
possibility that Iraq has developed mobile-production facilities or
that it has production equipment at other hidden sites."
It says Iraq has given no evidence that its stocks of VX nerve gas or
botulinum toxin were ever destroyed.
Britain and the United States proposed Friday giving Saddam Hussein an
ultimatum to comply with U.N. inspections by March 17 or face war. [end
quote]
http://cbsnews.cbs.com/stories/2003/03/08/iraq/main543257.shtml
That "legal standpoint" argument is also getting old. Exactly what
legal statute was violated? And why must this group keep arguing the
same invalid points over and over again?
Because you still don't get it. The Downing St Memo raised legitimate
and 'valid' doubts as to the legality of the invasion.
There is no "legality" argument to be made. The Downing St. Memo is
someone's opinion.
As for the militarily sound standpoint, there is no doubt mistakes were
made. But then mistakes are made in every war. Many men died on D-Day
in the invasion of France in 1944. Many more men died in the Battle of
the Bulge, which was not anticipated and possibly should have been.
It's the nature of war that mistakes will be made.
Hmmm ... I know you're not saying Saddam's army was comparable to the
German Army, but ....
Of course not. 3000 Americans died on the 6th of June, 1944 (D-Day)
alone. Many of those deaths happened due to mistakes, such as an
initial wave of US aircraft inadvertently bombing open ground behind
the German gun emplacements.
It seems Bush ejaculated prematurely. If he had waited and given the UN
inspectors more time he either would have found out that Saddam didn't
have WMD's or a WMD program, that the equipment and weapons had been
shipped to Syria, or that he did have a secret WMD program in place and
had traditional allies to help without incurring the heavy costs that
the US has already borne in lives and money. But it's too late now ...
and someone needs to answer the question ... 'Why?'
And if it had all been true, as major Democrats agreed it was, and he
HADN'T acted -- and something terrible had happened as a result of his
inaction, what would those same Democrats have had to say about his
inaction?
Senator John Kerry: "I think Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass
destruction are a threat, and that's why I voted to hold him
accountable and to make certain that we disarm him." (NPR's "All Things
Considered," 3/19/03)
Senator John Kerry: "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam
Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive
regime. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so
consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he is miscalculating
America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for
weapons of mass destruction. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with
weapons of mass destruction is real." (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At
Georgetown University, Washington, DC, 1/23/03)
Senator Ted Kennedy: "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein
is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." ("Remarks By
Senator Edward Kennedy (D-MA) At The Johns Hopkins School Of Advanced
International Studies," Federal News Service, 9/27/02)
Senator Hillary Clinton: "In the four years since the inspectors left,
intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his
chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability,
and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary
to terrorists, including al-Qaeda members ... It is clear, however,
that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his
capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying
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