I remembered reading this one months ago, and thought it might now appear
apropos....
Century 6, Qua. 69
French:
La pitie grande sera sans long tarder,
Ceux qui donnaient seront contrains de prendre:
Nus affames de froid, soif, soi bander,
Le monts passer commentant grand esclandre.
*Literal French to English translation:
LINE 1: The great pity will be (then) without long delay,
LINE 2: Those who (were) generous will be constrained to receive:
LINE 3: Naked starving with cold, thirst, bandaging oneself,
LINE 4: Passing the mountains constituting a great spectacle.
Interpretation:
After a great outpouring of sympathy, without a long delay,
Those who were generous will themselves be in need,
Without clothes, food, shelter, clean water, or adequate medical help,
Passing the mountains, comprising an unimaginable spectacle
.
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| User: "Claude Latremouille" |
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| Title: Re : I remember reading this one... |
12 Jan 2005 03:52:19 PM |
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On 12 Jan 2005 06:47:16 GMT, (JimGem3015) wrote
about quatrain VI-69:
*
I remembered reading this one months ago, and thought it might now appear
apropos....
*
Let's see, then:
*
------------- C E N T V R I E___S I X S I E S M E. -----------
------------------ (édition de novembre 1557) ----------------
*
---------------------------- l x i x -------------------------
--------- La pitié grande sera sans loing tarder, ------------
--------- Ceulx qui donnoient,constraints de prendre: --------
--------- Nudz affamez de froit,soif,foy bender, -------------
--------- Les monts passer faisant grand esclandre. ----------
*
Given the number of differences between the so-called November
1557 edition and the so-called September 1557 edition, both are
worth quoting:
*
------------- C E N T V R I E___S I X S I E S M E. -----------
----------------- (édition de septembre 1557) ----------------
*
---------------------------- L X I X -------------------------
--------- La pitié grande sera sans loing tarder, ------------
--------- Ceulx qui donnoient seront constrains de prendre: --
--------- Nudz affamez de froit,soif,soy bander, -------------
--------- Les monts passer commettant grand esclandre. -------
*
While we are at it, why not quote the third original printing of
this quatrain:
*
-------------------- C E N T V R I E___V I. ------------------
----------------- (édition prétendue de 1568) ----------------
*
---------------------------- L X I X. ------------------------
--------- La pitié grande sera sans loing tarder, ------------
--------- Ceux qui donnoient seront contrains de prendre. ----
--------- Nudz affamez de froit,soif,soy bander, -------------
--------- Les monts passer commettant grand esclandre. -------
*
That's how Nostradamus wanted to print it: in three different
ways.
*
[...]
*
*Literal French to English translation:
LINE 1: The great pity will be (then) without long delay,
LINE 2: Those who (were) generous will be constrained to receive:
LINE 3: Naked starving with cold, thirst, bandaging oneself,
LINE 4: Passing the mountains constituting a great spectacle.
Interpretation:
After a great outpouring of sympathy, without a long delay,
Those who were generous will themselves be in need,
Without clothes, food, shelter, clean water, or adequate medical help,
Passing the mountains, comprising an unimaginable spectacle
*
Hmmm, the translation being questionable, its interpretation
follows the dictum 'garbage in, garbage out'. "Bander" can also
mean to form a gang. "Esclandre" is closer to a scandalous event
than to a spectacle. "Prendre" means to take, not to receive.
*
The decyphered text from the first version above tells a long-
forgotten story, that of the fate of the Church in France under
the Revolution, going as far as having a pope prisoner in her
midst:
*
--------- Le Pays n'a pas de Prestre, la digne tiare ---------
--------- de Pie Six est constrainte, quand un ordre non -----
--------- diuin soubz une France affamée de Foy --------------
--------- le fait passer les monts dedans la France. ---------
*
The original text speaks of hunger and thirst, the decyphered
text refers to a land suffering from a deprivation of Faith, a
land without priests, whose pope (Pius VI) is even forced to
cross the Alps to reside in France, where he finally dies.
*
By whose ungodly order is he constrained? Bonaparte's!
*
Clever, eh, this Nostradamus?!
*
Claude Latrémouille
http://web.ncf.ca/cj559
*
=== ===
=== CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
===========================
--
*** ** ***
C L A U D E L A T R E M O U I L L E
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "JimGem3015" |
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| Title: Re: Re : I remember reading this one... |
13 Jan 2005 12:53:29 AM |
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C6-Q69
*Literal French to English translation:
LINE 1: The great pity will be (then) without long delay,
LINE 2: Those who (were) generous will be constrained to receive:
LINE 3: Naked starving with cold, thirst, bandaging oneself,
LINE 4: Passing the mountains constituting a great spectacle.
Interpretation:
After a great outpouring of sympathy, without a long delay,
Those who were generous will themselves be in need,
Without clothes, food, shelter, clean water, or adequate medical help,
Passing the mountains, comprising an unimaginable spectacle
*
Hmmm, the translation being questionable, its interpretation
follows the dictum 'garbage in, garbage out'. "Bander" can also
mean to form a gang. "Esclandre" is closer to a scandalous event
than to a spectacle. "Prendre" means to take, not to receive.
Hello...If you "take" some aid from another you are RECEIVING assistance.
Hello, wake up.
Those that were "generous" after, what will not be considered a very long
delay, will be reduced to "taking" and "receiving".... PRENDRE.
And by the way..some will TAKE, others will receive.
Not very long after a universal demonstration of sympathy, and an equally
unprecendented outpouring of assistance to tsusami victims; those that were so
generous in their giving, will themselves be reduced to taking, and receiving
assistance.
Left without clothes, food, shelter, clean water, or adequate medical help.
Passing the mountains, fleeing the floodwaters, the pitiful multitudes create
quite a scene and spectacle.
Esclandre = scandal, exposure, scene.
Do you have a Thesaurus?
.
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| User: "Claude Latremouille" |
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| Title: Re: I remember reading this one... |
13 Jan 2005 11:39:17 AM |
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On 13 Jan 2005 06:53:29 GMT, (JimGem3015)
wrote again about quatrain VI-69:
*
------------- C E N T V R I E___S I X S I E S M E. -----------
------------------ (édition de novembre 1557) ----------------
*
---------------------------- l x i x -------------------------
--------- La pitié grande sera sans loing tarder, ------------
--------- Ceulx qui donnoient,constraints de prendre: --------
--------- Nudz affamez de froit,soif,foy bender, -------------
--------- Les monts passer faisant grand esclandre. ----------
*
------------- C E N T V R I E___S I X S I E S M E. -----------
----------------- (édition de septembre 1557) ----------------
*
---------------------------- L X I X -------------------------
--------- La pitié grande sera sans loing tarder, ------------
--------- Ceulx qui donnoient seront constrains de prendre: --
--------- Nudz affamez de froit,soif,soy bander, -------------
--------- Les monts passer commettant grand esclandre. -------
*
-------------------- C E N T V R I E___V I. ------------------
----------------- (édition prétendue de 1568) ----------------
*
---------------------------- L X I X. ------------------------
--------- La pitié grande sera sans loing tarder, ------------
--------- Ceux qui donnoient seront contrains de prendre. ----
--------- Nudz affamez de froit,soif,soy bander, -------------
--------- Les monts passer commettant grand esclandre. -------
*
*Literal French to English translation:
LINE 1: The great pity will be (then) without long delay,
LINE 2: Those who (were) generous will be constrained to receive:
LINE 3: Naked starving with cold, thirst, bandaging oneself,
LINE 4: Passing the mountains constituting a great spectacle.
Interpretation:
After a great outpouring of sympathy, without a long delay,
Those who were generous will themselves be in need,
Without clothes, food, shelter, clean water, or adequate medical help,
Passing the mountains, comprising an unimaginable spectacle
*
Hmmm, the translation being questionable, its interpretation
follows the dictum 'garbage in, garbage out'. "Bander" can also
mean to form a gang. "Esclandre" is closer to a scandalous event
than to a spectacle. "Prendre" means to take, not to receive.
Hello...If you "take" some aid from another you are RECEIVING assistance.
*
Yes, an accountant would say that. If you debit an account, you
must credit another one. But the original text could suggest that
those who were later deprived were forced to take (on their own
initiative, without being given anything).
*
[...]
*
Left without clothes, food, shelter, clean water, or adequate medical help.
Passing the mountains, fleeing the floodwaters, the pitiful multitudes create
quite a scene and spectacle.
Esclandre = scandal, exposure, scene.
Do you have a Thesaurus?
*
Being a French-speaking fellow, I usually do not need to consult
a thesaurus to know my own language. To make a scene would be
indeed be 'faire un esclandre'. To have a misdeed exposed would
also be 'faire un esclandre'. To engage in scandalous conduct
would also be 'faire un esclandre'.
*
A spectacle is not a very good way of rendering "esclandre", as a
spectacle can be one which does not involve a scandal at all.
Actually, the word "esclandre" suggests more of a noisy,
disturbing event than just something which can be seen
(spectacle, from the Latin spectare, to see). Which is why I was
commenting upon your translation.
*
But my basic point, as you already know, was that quatrain VI-69
does not necessarily refer to the latest news event, but to a
long-forgotten episode of French history, namely the Revolution
(which reduced the nobility to poverty) and one of its sequels,
Bonaparte's war against the pope, forced to cross the Alps ("Les
monts passer...") and to end his days in France.
*
Have a nice day, ye all!
*
Claude Latrémouille
http://web.ncf.ca/cj559
*
=== ===
=== CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
===========================
--
*** ** ***
C L A U D E L A T R E M O U I L L E
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "TaDa Pope" |
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| Title: Re: I remember reading this one... |
13 Jan 2005 04:28:33 PM |
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'The Box Car Children'
Tangents are infinite in all of nature in
all universes constantly and at random.
* D OUOSVAVV M *
*PUBLIUS ENIGMA*
Oh Joy!
The Psychedelic Pope
Patron Saint of the Internet
http://www.apple2.org.za/gswv/me/
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: I remember reading this one... |
12 Jan 2005 05:29:50 PM |
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Well this group should be called Latex or just old rubber talk about
stretching it! Perhaps Mr Leoni can fill the reader in with a rather
objective and balanced approach he is known for:
CVIQ 69. This one Jaubert applies also to events of 1556. Because Guise
paid his soldiers better, the troops of Marshal Brissac deserted to the
other French army Brissac found himself without any more money for his
troops, which in the winter had to be disbanded. Starving, they
proceeded to plunder Piedmont (including the mountains of Montferrat).
While assinine, this interpretation is backed tip by the "before long."
Though Le Pelletier does not have the latter behind him, his
interpretation is much more convincing: The condition of the French
clergy will soon (1792) become pitiful. These men who distributed their
immense wealth to the poor [sic!] will be obliged to beg for their
bread. Stripped, proscribed, wandering, dying of the cold, of hunger,
of thirst, they will pass over the Alps in bands and will take refuge
in Italy, causing everywhere a great scandal.
It is far more likely that Nostradamus indeed meant it for a
persecution of the clergy.
LB
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