I like reading any new medical information, but take it with a grain of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
"The retreat of glaciers around the world is the most visible - and
depressing - sign of global warming.
If that retreat continues at its present rate, it won't be long before the
glaciers will be gone, and the world of biology in the Arctic and high
altitudes changed dramatically.
So far, our attention has been focused on the extinction (or arrival) of
plants and animals, but are we in danger ourselves?
A team of scientists writing in the journal Medical Hypotheses claims that
the world's glaciers and ice caps are loaded with infectious agents,
especially viruses, and that their release by melting poses a new medical
threat.
Could they be right?
Here is what they say: Viruses of many kinds - including influenza - can be
frozen solid and still be infectious when they're thawed, so storage in ice
is not necessarily destructive.
A second point is that there's no reason to think that being frozen for
50,000 years is any worse than being frozen for five.
Of course, you have to get the viruses into the ice in the first place - and
then get them out, fully infective - if they're going to be a threat.
How would that happen? The authors point out that the life cycles of certain
viruses suit them to this kind of scenario.
One is polio. The feces of infected people are full of polio viruses, and
these often find their way into local rivers or streams, eventually reaching
the ocean.
The virus also freezes well.
No one has a clue whether or not it's found in ice, but the authors
nonetheless contend that "ice has a high potential for being a reservoir for
this virus."
The same is said for influenza.
In this case, the virus moves long distances, usually in the guts of
migrating wild ducks.
That implies that Arctic ponds and streams might be loaded with live
influenza viruses every summer. They could survive for days in water, and
for who knows how long in ice.
Direct evidence for polio or influenza viruses actually being locked in the
ice, ready to be unleashed by melting, is pretty scant. It amounts to
educated guessing. There is a better case for a less-well-known group called
the Caliciviruses.
They are odd: For one thing they prefer ocean fish (that's actually their
so-called reservoir), but will happily infect mammals, including us.
They are responsible for causing disease in an incredible variety of organs
(everything from the liver to the brain) in an equally diverse group of
mammals, from rabbits to grey whales.
The whale is an intriguing example.
Grey whales, which are full of Caliciviruses, take part in a famous annual
migration along the California coast and they encounter sea lions and fur
seals along the way, both of which are Calicivirus carriers themselves.
There's lots of opportunity for loose viruses to find their way into Arctic
waters, in which they survive very well.
And they might, just might, get splashed onto a glacier and locked into the
ice.
This theory argues that some viruses might emerge from the ice only after a
very long time.
In 2002, a Calicivirus isolated from an Alaskan Steller sea lion was found
to be genetically identical to a virus discovered more than 50 years ago.
That virus has a weird history: It was first identified in 1948, then
vanished, was rediscovered in 1968, then vanished again, only to reappear in
2002.
There appears to be neither rhyme nor reason to that cycle, but you could
speculate (as the authors do) that each appearance points to a single huge
release of viruses from the ice.
We know polio and influenza are very dangerous for us. It's not so crystal
clear with Caliciviruses. Animal biologists who have had contact with
infected sea lions and fur seals have become ill, though not seriously.
There's also suggestive evidence of slightly higher rates of Calicivirus
infection in some people with hepatitis and higher rates of abortion in
infected women.
But the medical picture certainly isn't stark as it is with those other
viruses.
So, should we be worried? At the moment it is far from being an airtight
argument.
Medical Hypotheses, which published the report, floats many, many ideas that
never again see the light of day.
But this one has, if not the ring of truth, at least a hint of it"
.
|
|
| User: "Barbarossa" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
28 Sep 2004 04:11:29 AM |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it with a grain of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out of Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it. That is very bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So, when we want to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better the Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
28 Sep 2004 12:01:43 PM |
|
|
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it with a grain of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out of Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it. That is very bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So, when we want to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better the Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either. Even if it were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their emissions, not just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also dissenters in the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate change is a natural
phenomenon and not over influenced by man's activities. After all, earth's
climate has changed many, many times over the history of the planet.
Jane
.
|
|
|
| User: "Barbarossa" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
29 Sep 2004 06:13:52 PM |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:WNg6d.5545$MD5.562943@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it with a grain
of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out of
Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it. That is very
bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So, when we want
to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better the
Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either. Even if it
were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their emissions, not just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also dissenters in the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate change is a
natural
phenomenon and not over influenced by man's activities. After all,
earth's
climate has changed many, many times over the history of the planet.
Just fresh from the press. I just read on Belgian videotext that Russia is
about to ratify the Kyoto agreement.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Barbarossa" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
28 Sep 2004 06:06:30 PM |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:WNg6d.5545$MD5.562943@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it with a grain
of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out of
Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it. That is very
bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So, when we want
to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better the
Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either. Even if it
were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their emissions, not just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also dissenters in the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate change is a
natural
phenomenon and not over influenced by man's activities. After all,
earth's
climate has changed many, many times over the history of the planet.
Those dissenters are usually found as "scientists" working for the
industrials
who don't want them to produce frightning news. And the number of
dissidents is slowly decreasing.
The Earth has had its fluctuations in general temperature, but there has
always been a correlation to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and
the average temperature. What scientist do agree upon in a large majority
is that the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has indeed increased the
last century caused by environmental pollution by the industry, the
usuage of cars and the heating of our homes. The overinfluencing is indeed
taking place. Only "scientists" with debatable jobs in the industry claim
otherwise. Highly recommended scientist such as Stephen Hawking are
certainly not on your side of the political agenda.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
28 Sep 2004 11:14:42 PM |
|
|
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4159ee24$0$10415$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:WNg6d.5545$MD5.562943@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it with a grain
of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out of
Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it. That is very
bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So, when we want
to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better the
Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either. Even if it
were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their emissions, not just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also dissenters in
the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate change is a
natural
phenomenon and not over influenced by man's activities. After all,
earth's
climate has changed many, many times over the history of the planet.
Those dissenters are usually found as "scientists" working for the
industrials
who don't want them to produce frightning news. And the number of
dissidents is slowly decreasing.
The Earth has had its fluctuations in general temperature, but there has
always been a correlation to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and
the average temperature. What scientist do agree upon in a large majority
is that the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has indeed increased the
last century caused by environmental pollution by the industry, the
usuage of cars and the heating of our homes. The overinfluencing is indeed
taking place. Only "scientists" with debatable jobs in the industry claim
otherwise. Highly recommended scientist such as Stephen Hawking are
certainly not on your side of the political agenda.
I was playing "Devil's Advocate", truth be told. My main point is that
Kyoto targets only industrialized countries, while those with emerging
economies may emit at will.
I think it will be a moot point, anyway, as the end of the age of cheap oil
is nigh. The peak oil theory is one I give credence to, as it is advocated
not by the usual band of freaks left over from the 60s but by geologists in
the field. I'm sure we're in for a rocky road adjusting.
Jane
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
.
|
|
|
| User: "Marvin The Paranoid Android" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
29 Sep 2004 05:47:23 AM |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SEq6d.8048$MD5.734180@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4159ee24$0$10415$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:WNg6d.5545$MD5.562943@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it with a
grain
of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out of
Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it. That is
very
bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So, when we
want
to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better the
Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either. Even if
it
were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their emissions, not just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also dissenters in
the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate change is a
natural
phenomenon and not over influenced by man's activities. After all,
earth's
climate has changed many, many times over the history of the planet.
Those dissenters are usually found as "scientists" working for the
industrials
who don't want them to produce frightning news. And the number of
dissidents is slowly decreasing.
The Earth has had its fluctuations in general temperature, but there has
always been a correlation to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and
the average temperature. What scientist do agree upon in a large
majority
is that the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has indeed increased the
last century caused by environmental pollution by the industry, the
usuage of cars and the heating of our homes. The overinfluencing is
indeed
taking place. Only "scientists" with debatable jobs in the industry
claim
otherwise. Highly recommended scientist such as Stephen Hawking are
certainly not on your side of the political agenda.
I was playing "Devil's Advocate", truth be told. My main point is that
Kyoto targets only industrialized countries, while those with emerging
economies may emit at will.
I think it will be a moot point, anyway, as the end of the age of cheap
oil
is nigh. The peak oil theory is one I give credence to, as it is
advocated
not by the usual band of freaks left over from the 60s but by geologists
in
the field. I'm sure we're in for a rocky road adjusting.
Jane
LOL ... what would be the diff between the '60's freaks and the geologists
if they both reached the same conclucions?
I don't think you need a degree or to be a rocket scientist to realize that
the Earth is finite and everything on it or in it is limited. I think the
'60's freaks were the ones telling people to change the way they lived so as
to do as little harm as possible to the enviroment. Are you going to wait
for the eggheads to come along and tell you this before you start to believe
it?
:-)
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.767 / Virus Database: 514 - Release Date: 9/21/04
.
|
|
|
| User: "Barbarossa" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
29 Sep 2004 07:39:55 AM |
|
|
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> schreef in bericht
news:8pw6d.10829$tT2.994617@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SEq6d.8048$MD5.734180@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4159ee24$0$10415$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:WNg6d.5545$MD5.562943@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it with a
grain
of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out of
Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it. That is
very
bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So, when we
want
to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better the
Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either. Even if
it
were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their emissions, not
just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also dissenters
in
the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate change is a
natural
phenomenon and not over influenced by man's activities. After all,
earth's
climate has changed many, many times over the history of the planet.
Those dissenters are usually found as "scientists" working for the
industrials
who don't want them to produce frightning news. And the number of
dissidents is slowly decreasing.
The Earth has had its fluctuations in general temperature, but there
has
always been a correlation to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and
the average temperature. What scientist do agree upon in a large
majority
is that the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has indeed increased the
last century caused by environmental pollution by the industry, the
usuage of cars and the heating of our homes. The overinfluencing is
indeed
taking place. Only "scientists" with debatable jobs in the industry
claim
otherwise. Highly recommended scientist such as Stephen Hawking are
certainly not on your side of the political agenda.
I was playing "Devil's Advocate", truth be told. My main point is that
Kyoto targets only industrialized countries, while those with emerging
economies may emit at will.
I think it will be a moot point, anyway, as the end of the age of cheap
oil
is nigh. The peak oil theory is one I give credence to, as it is
advocated
not by the usual band of freaks left over from the 60s but by geologists
in
the field. I'm sure we're in for a rocky road adjusting.
Jane
LOL ... what would be the diff between the '60's freaks and the geologists
if they both reached the same conclucions?
I don't think you need a degree or to be a rocket scientist to realize
that
the Earth is finite and everything on it or in it is limited. I think the
'60's freaks were the ones telling people to change the way they lived so
as
to do as little harm as possible to the enviroment. Are you going to wait
for the eggheads to come along and tell you this before you start to
believe
it?
Regarding this issue it would have been a lot better if the world has
listened
to those hippies from the 60s. Our energyproviders would have been solar-
wind- and waterenergy already with cars using H2. We listened too much
to scientists who were connected with the industry and to politicians who
are just in power to suit the militairy industrial complex.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
.
|
|
|
| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
29 Sep 2004 08:31:45 AM |
|
|
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:415aacc8$0$10418$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> schreef in bericht
news:8pw6d.10829$tT2.994617@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SEq6d.8048$MD5.734180@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4159ee24$0$10415$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:WNg6d.5545$MD5.562943@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it with a
grain
of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out of
Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it. That
is
very
bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So, when
we
want
to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better the
Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either. Even
if
it
were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their emissions, not
just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also dissenters
in
the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate change is
a
natural
phenomenon and not over influenced by man's activities. After
all,
earth's
climate has changed many, many times over the history of the
planet.
Those dissenters are usually found as "scientists" working for the
industrials
who don't want them to produce frightning news. And the number of
dissidents is slowly decreasing.
The Earth has had its fluctuations in general temperature, but there
has
always been a correlation to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and
the average temperature. What scientist do agree upon in a large
majority
is that the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has indeed increased the
last century caused by environmental pollution by the industry, the
usuage of cars and the heating of our homes. The overinfluencing is
indeed
taking place. Only "scientists" with debatable jobs in the industry
claim
otherwise. Highly recommended scientist such as Stephen Hawking are
certainly not on your side of the political agenda.
I was playing "Devil's Advocate", truth be told. My main point is
that
Kyoto targets only industrialized countries, while those with emerging
economies may emit at will.
I think it will be a moot point, anyway, as the end of the age of
cheap
oil
is nigh. The peak oil theory is one I give credence to, as it is
advocated
not by the usual band of freaks left over from the 60s but by
geologists
in
the field. I'm sure we're in for a rocky road adjusting.
Jane
LOL ... what would be the diff between the '60's freaks and the
geologists
if they both reached the same conclucions?
I don't think you need a degree or to be a rocket scientist to realize
that
the Earth is finite and everything on it or in it is limited. I think
the
'60's freaks were the ones telling people to change the way they lived
so
as
to do as little harm as possible to the enviroment. Are you going to
wait
for the eggheads to come along and tell you this before you start to
believe
it?
Regarding this issue it would have been a lot better if the world has
listened
to those hippies from the 60s.
We listened to the fuckers TOO MUCH with regard to power generation.
Our energyproviders would have been solar-
wind- and waterenergy already with cars using H2.
Please look into how many wind-turbines it takes to generate as much energy
as ONE nuclear power plant.
Please look at how much energy you need to expend to produce hydrogen from
water.
We listened too much
to scientists who were connected with the industry and to politicians who
are just in power to suit the militairy industrial complex.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
29 Sep 2004 12:03:47 PM |
|
|
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:415aacc8$0$10418$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> schreef in bericht
news:8pw6d.10829$tT2.994617@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SEq6d.8048$MD5.734180@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4159ee24$0$10415$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:WNg6d.5545$MD5.562943@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it with a
grain
of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out of
Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it. That
is
very
bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So, when
we
want
to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better the
Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either. Even
if
it
were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their emissions, not
just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also dissenters
in
the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate change is
a
natural
phenomenon and not over influenced by man's activities. After
all,
earth's
climate has changed many, many times over the history of the
planet.
Those dissenters are usually found as "scientists" working for the
industrials
who don't want them to produce frightning news. And the number of
dissidents is slowly decreasing.
The Earth has had its fluctuations in general temperature, but there
has
always been a correlation to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and
the average temperature. What scientist do agree upon in a large
majority
is that the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has indeed increased the
last century caused by environmental pollution by the industry, the
usuage of cars and the heating of our homes. The overinfluencing is
indeed
taking place. Only "scientists" with debatable jobs in the industry
claim
otherwise. Highly recommended scientist such as Stephen Hawking are
certainly not on your side of the political agenda.
I was playing "Devil's Advocate", truth be told. My main point is
that
Kyoto targets only industrialized countries, while those with emerging
economies may emit at will.
I think it will be a moot point, anyway, as the end of the age of
cheap
oil
is nigh. The peak oil theory is one I give credence to, as it is
advocated
not by the usual band of freaks left over from the 60s but by
geologists
in
the field. I'm sure we're in for a rocky road adjusting.
Jane
LOL ... what would be the diff between the '60's freaks and the
geologists
if they both reached the same conclucions?
I don't think you need a degree or to be a rocket scientist to realize
that
the Earth is finite and everything on it or in it is limited. I think
the
'60's freaks were the ones telling people to change the way they lived
so
as
to do as little harm as possible to the enviroment. Are you going to
wait
for the eggheads to come along and tell you this before you start to
believe
it?
Regarding this issue it would have been a lot better if the world has
listened
to those hippies from the 60s. Our energyproviders would have been solar-
wind- and waterenergy already with cars using H2. We listened too much
to scientists who were connected with the industry and to politicians who
are just in power to suit the militairy industrial complex.
You should read the peak oil bible, "The Party's Over", by Richard Heinberg.
In it, he looks at alternative fuels and explains why they will never work
on a large scale (the one that stuck in my mind was ethanol...we would need
every field we now grow corn on...leaving none for human/ animal
consumption...and we still couldn't power a fraction of our cars). He
explains why hydrogen, wind and solar power also will not work. It's an
interesting read.
Jane
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
.
|
|
|
| User: "Barbarossa" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
29 Sep 2004 03:42:41 PM |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:TVB6d.12863$tT2.1064767@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:415aacc8$0$10418$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> schreef in bericht
news:8pw6d.10829$tT2.994617@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SEq6d.8048$MD5.734180@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4159ee24$0$10415$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:WNg6d.5545$MD5.562943@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it with
a
grain
of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out of
Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it. That
is
very
bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So, when
we
want
to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better the
Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either.
Even
if
it
were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their emissions,
not
just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also
dissenters
in
the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate change
is
a
natural
phenomenon and not over influenced by man's activities. After
all,
earth's
climate has changed many, many times over the history of the
planet.
Those dissenters are usually found as "scientists" working for the
industrials
who don't want them to produce frightning news. And the number of
dissidents is slowly decreasing.
The Earth has had its fluctuations in general temperature, but
there
has
always been a correlation to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere
and
the average temperature. What scientist do agree upon in a large
majority
is that the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has indeed increased
the
last century caused by environmental pollution by the industry,
the
usuage of cars and the heating of our homes. The overinfluencing
is
indeed
taking place. Only "scientists" with debatable jobs in the
industry
claim
otherwise. Highly recommended scientist such as Stephen Hawking
are
certainly not on your side of the political agenda.
I was playing "Devil's Advocate", truth be told. My main point is
that
Kyoto targets only industrialized countries, while those with
emerging
economies may emit at will.
I think it will be a moot point, anyway, as the end of the age of
cheap
oil
is nigh. The peak oil theory is one I give credence to, as it is
advocated
not by the usual band of freaks left over from the 60s but by
geologists
in
the field. I'm sure we're in for a rocky road adjusting.
Jane
LOL ... what would be the diff between the '60's freaks and the
geologists
if they both reached the same conclucions?
I don't think you need a degree or to be a rocket scientist to realize
that
the Earth is finite and everything on it or in it is limited. I think
the
'60's freaks were the ones telling people to change the way they lived
so
as
to do as little harm as possible to the enviroment. Are you going to
wait
for the eggheads to come along and tell you this before you start to
believe
it?
Regarding this issue it would have been a lot better if the world has
listened
to those hippies from the 60s. Our energyproviders would have been
solar-
wind- and waterenergy already with cars using H2. We listened too much
to scientists who were connected with the industry and to politicians
who
are just in power to suit the militairy industrial complex.
You should read the peak oil bible, "The Party's Over", by Richard
Heinberg.
In it, he looks at alternative fuels and explains why they will never work
on a large scale (the one that stuck in my mind was ethanol...we would
need
every field we now grow corn on...leaving none for human/ animal
consumption...and we still couldn't power a fraction of our cars). He
explains why hydrogen, wind and solar power also will not work. It's an
interesting read.
Probably not on a wordlwide scale, but when done correctly a country like
The Netherlands bordering the North Sea, with a riverdelta and on 52° N
will be able to live by wind-, water- and solarenergy fine.
Once, besides turf, The Netherlands lived by wind- en waterenergy alone!
Problem is that it takes decades to form layers of turf.
Problem is that those jerks, the Green parties, abhor the idea of so many
windmills in the landscape while I like to see those!
I am not against nuclear energy, it could be an addition, I am not in favour
of overloading our planet with nuclear plants, especially not in this era of
terrorism. Nuclear energy could help us close the oil era, transform to
water-, solar- and windenergy, while studying and implementing other
sources as well.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Marvin The Paranoid Android" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
29 Sep 2004 01:21:54 PM |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TVB6d.12863$tT2.1064767@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:415aacc8$0$10418$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> schreef in bericht
news:8pw6d.10829$tT2.994617@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SEq6d.8048$MD5.734180@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4159ee24$0$10415$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:WNg6d.5545$MD5.562943@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it with
a
grain
of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out of
Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it. That
is
very
bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So, when
we
want
to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better the
Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either.
Even
if
it
were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their emissions,
not
just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also
dissenters
in
the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate change
is
a
natural
phenomenon and not over influenced by man's activities. After
all,
earth's
climate has changed many, many times over the history of the
planet.
Those dissenters are usually found as "scientists" working for the
industrials
who don't want them to produce frightning news. And the number of
dissidents is slowly decreasing.
The Earth has had its fluctuations in general temperature, but
there
has
always been a correlation to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere
and
the average temperature. What scientist do agree upon in a large
majority
is that the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has indeed increased
the
last century caused by environmental pollution by the industry,
the
usuage of cars and the heating of our homes. The overinfluencing
is
indeed
taking place. Only "scientists" with debatable jobs in the
industry
claim
otherwise. Highly recommended scientist such as Stephen Hawking
are
certainly not on your side of the political agenda.
I was playing "Devil's Advocate", truth be told. My main point is
that
Kyoto targets only industrialized countries, while those with
emerging
economies may emit at will.
I think it will be a moot point, anyway, as the end of the age of
cheap
oil
is nigh. The peak oil theory is one I give credence to, as it is
advocated
not by the usual band of freaks left over from the 60s but by
geologists
in
the field. I'm sure we're in for a rocky road adjusting.
Jane
LOL ... what would be the diff between the '60's freaks and the
geologists
if they both reached the same conclucions?
I don't think you need a degree or to be a rocket scientist to realize
that
the Earth is finite and everything on it or in it is limited. I think
the
'60's freaks were the ones telling people to change the way they lived
so
as
to do as little harm as possible to the enviroment. Are you going to
wait
for the eggheads to come along and tell you this before you start to
believe
it?
Regarding this issue it would have been a lot better if the world has
listened
to those hippies from the 60s. Our energyproviders would have been
solar-
wind- and waterenergy already with cars using H2. We listened too much
to scientists who were connected with the industry and to politicians
who
are just in power to suit the militairy industrial complex.
You should read the peak oil bible, "The Party's Over", by Richard
Heinberg.
In it, he looks at alternative fuels and explains why they will never work
on a large scale (the one that stuck in my mind was ethanol...we would
need
every field we now grow corn on...leaving none for human/ animal
consumption...and we still couldn't power a fraction of our cars). He
explains why hydrogen, wind and solar power also will not work. It's an
interesting read.
Jane
Um ... sure ... assuming we don't try to change the way we live.
Better organized urban areas could reduce the need for gas-powered
transport. Being able to walk for groceries ( more frequent trips with
lighter loads, bicycles with saddle bags, 'granny-carts' ) and other
necessities wouldn't only bring down living expenses but would be much
healthier for the enviroment as well as yourself.
I honestly think it starts with the individual and not large scale
endeavours. Hell, we're looking at getting the frig out of the city ( I'm
sick of having to drive my kids everywhere ) and looking at a place 30
minutes away ... small town, pop of approx 9,000. Everything is nearby
within a 3 minute bike ride or 10 minute walk. Two 'major' grocery stores, a
movie theatre in a converted Church basement ( for $30 we covered admission
for 4 plus a round of popcorn and drinks for all of us ), a bowling alley,
schools, everything ... all manageable without a stupid vehicle. And the
downtown area is turn of the century and incredibly vibrant with excellent
restaraunts and useful stores ( not 'boutiques' ). I'm so looking forward to
this it's not funny.
I think something other then oil that will have to be addressed in the near
future too is electrical consumption. Someone mentioned nuclear as being the
more realistic option. But those babies are nasty when it's time to
decommission. Again, I think a combination of personal conservation, plus
solar with high-density storage capacity would be the most likely scenario
.... but this will be simply to reduce demand on traditional sources of
electrical power such as coal, oil, hydro, and nuclear.
As resources become scarce, prices will increase. Something is going to have
to change whether we like it or not. May as well plan ahead and try to keep
a 'sunny' spin on it.... :-)
Cheers!
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.767 / Virus Database: 514 - Release Date: 9/21/04
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
29 Sep 2004 10:38:35 PM |
|
|
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:k3D6d.13256$tT2.1078636@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TVB6d.12863$tT2.1064767@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:415aacc8$0$10418$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> schreef in bericht
news:8pw6d.10829$tT2.994617@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SEq6d.8048$MD5.734180@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4159ee24$0$10415$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:WNg6d.5545$MD5.562943@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it
with
a
grain
of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out
of
Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it.
That
is
very
bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So,
when
we
want
to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better
the
Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either.
Even
if
it
were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their emissions,
not
just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also
dissenters
in
the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate
change
is
a
natural
phenomenon and not over influenced by man's activities. After
all,
earth's
climate has changed many, many times over the history of the
planet.
Those dissenters are usually found as "scientists" working for
the
industrials
who don't want them to produce frightning news. And the number
of
dissidents is slowly decreasing.
The Earth has had its fluctuations in general temperature, but
there
has
always been a correlation to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere
and
the average temperature. What scientist do agree upon in a large
majority
is that the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has indeed increased
the
last century caused by environmental pollution by the industry,
the
usuage of cars and the heating of our homes. The overinfluencing
is
indeed
taking place. Only "scientists" with debatable jobs in the
industry
claim
otherwise. Highly recommended scientist such as Stephen Hawking
are
certainly not on your side of the political agenda.
I was playing "Devil's Advocate", truth be told. My main point is
that
Kyoto targets only industrialized countries, while those with
emerging
economies may emit at will.
I think it will be a moot point, anyway, as the end of the age of
cheap
oil
is nigh. The peak oil theory is one I give credence to, as it is
advocated
not by the usual band of freaks left over from the 60s but by
geologists
in
the field. I'm sure we're in for a rocky road adjusting.
Jane
LOL ... what would be the diff between the '60's freaks and the
geologists
if they both reached the same conclucions?
I don't think you need a degree or to be a rocket scientist to
realize
that
the Earth is finite and everything on it or in it is limited. I
think
the
'60's freaks were the ones telling people to change the way they
lived
so
as
to do as little harm as possible to the enviroment. Are you going to
wait
for the eggheads to come along and tell you this before you start to
believe
it?
Regarding this issue it would have been a lot better if the world has
listened
to those hippies from the 60s. Our energyproviders would have been
solar-
wind- and waterenergy already with cars using H2. We listened too much
to scientists who were connected with the industry and to politicians
who
are just in power to suit the militairy industrial complex.
You should read the peak oil bible, "The Party's Over", by Richard
Heinberg.
In it, he looks at alternative fuels and explains why they will never
work
on a large scale (the one that stuck in my mind was ethanol...we would
need
every field we now grow corn on...leaving none for human/ animal
consumption...and we still couldn't power a fraction of our cars). He
explains why hydrogen, wind and solar power also will not work. It's an
interesting read.
Jane
Um ... sure ... assuming we don't try to change the way we live.
Better organized urban areas could reduce the need for gas-powered
transport. Being able to walk for groceries ( more frequent trips with
lighter loads, bicycles with saddle bags, 'granny-carts' ) and other
necessities wouldn't only bring down living expenses but would be much
healthier for the enviroment as well as yourself.
I honestly think it starts with the individual and not large scale
endeavours. Hell, we're looking at getting the frig out of the city ( I'm
sick of having to drive my kids everywhere ) and looking at a place 30
minutes away ... small town, pop of approx 9,000. Everything is nearby
within a 3 minute bike ride or 10 minute walk. Two 'major' grocery stores,
a
movie theatre in a converted Church basement ( for $30 we covered
admission
for 4 plus a round of popcorn and drinks for all of us ), a bowling alley,
schools, everything ... all manageable without a stupid vehicle. And the
downtown area is turn of the century and incredibly vibrant with excellent
restaraunts and useful stores ( not 'boutiques' ). I'm so looking forward
to
this it's not funny.
I hate the city. we live in the country, in a small village. If not for
our jobs, we would not need our vehicles that much. We are both in the auto
manufacturing business, so believe me, I do not enjoy reading about peak
oil! :)
We grow a lot of our own produce and buy much of our meat directly from
local farmers. We heat mainly with wood, supplemented by oil. I can cook
the old-fashioned way...give me some beans, a meaty bone, some veggies and
herbs and I can make a feast! The problem is, there are many, many people
today that eat everything out of a box and think "cooking" is making Kraft
Dinner. While my family has a long way to go to be self-sufficient, some
people will not be capable of it. I still think it will a huge, disruptive
change.
I think something other then oil that will have to be addressed in the
near
future too is electrical consumption. Someone mentioned nuclear as being
the
more realistic option. But those babies are nasty when it's time to
decommission. Again, I think a combination of personal conservation, plus
solar with high-density storage capacity would be the most likely scenario
... but this will be simply to reduce demand on traditional sources of
electrical power such as coal, oil, hydro, and nuclear.
As resources become scarce, prices will increase. Something is going to
have
to change whether we like it or not. May as well plan ahead and try to
keep
a 'sunny' spin on it.... :-)
True. My hydro bills are running at $200 Canuck-bucks a month in
summer...and that's with controls. God only knows what they will be when
the controls come off next May :( !
Cheers!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Marvin The Paranoid Android" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
30 Sep 2004 04:59:10 AM |
|
|
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%cL6d.13041$MD5.944773@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:k3D6d.13256$tT2.1078636@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TVB6d.12863$tT2.1064767@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:415aacc8$0$10418$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> schreef in bericht
news:8pw6d.10829$tT2.994617@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SEq6d.8048$MD5.734180@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4159ee24$0$10415$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:WNg6d.5545$MD5.562943@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it
with
a
grain
of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out
of
Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it.
That
is
very
bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So,
when
we
want
to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better
the
Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either.
Even
if
it
were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their
emissions,
not
just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also
dissenters
in
the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate
change
is
a
natural
phenomenon and not over influenced by man's activities.
After
all,
earth's
climate has changed many, many times over the history of the
planet.
Those dissenters are usually found as "scientists" working for
the
industrials
who don't want them to produce frightning news. And the number
of
dissidents is slowly decreasing.
The Earth has had its fluctuations in general temperature, but
there
has
always been a correlation to the amount of CO2 in the
atmosphere
and
the average temperature. What scientist do agree upon in a
large
majority
is that the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has indeed
increased
the
last century caused by environmental pollution by the
industry,
the
usuage of cars and the heating of our homes. The
overinfluencing
is
indeed
taking place. Only "scientists" with debatable jobs in the
industry
claim
otherwise. Highly recommended scientist such as Stephen
Hawking
are
certainly not on your side of the political agenda.
I was playing "Devil's Advocate", truth be told. My main point
is
that
Kyoto targets only industrialized countries, while those with
emerging
economies may emit at will.
I think it will be a moot point, anyway, as the end of the age
of
cheap
oil
is nigh. The peak oil theory is one I give credence to, as it
is
advocated
not by the usual band of freaks left over from the 60s but by
geologists
in
the field. I'm sure we're in for a rocky road adjusting.
Jane
LOL ... what would be the diff between the '60's freaks and the
geologists
if they both reached the same conclucions?
I don't think you need a degree or to be a rocket scientist to
realize
that
the Earth is finite and everything on it or in it is limited. I
think
the
'60's freaks were the ones telling people to change the way they
lived
so
as
to do as little harm as possible to the enviroment. Are you going
to
wait
for the eggheads to come along and tell you this before you start
to
believe
it?
Regarding this issue it would have been a lot better if the world
has
listened
to those hippies from the 60s. Our energyproviders would have been
solar-
wind- and waterenergy already with cars using H2. We listened too
much
to scientists who were connected with the industry and to
politicians
who
are just in power to suit the militairy industrial complex.
You should read the peak oil bible, "The Party's Over", by Richard
Heinberg.
In it, he looks at alternative fuels and explains why they will never
work
on a large scale (the one that stuck in my mind was ethanol...we would
need
every field we now grow corn on...leaving none for human/ animal
consumption...and we still couldn't power a fraction of our cars). He
explains why hydrogen, wind and solar power also will not work. It's
an
interesting read.
Jane
Um ... sure ... assuming we don't try to change the way we live.
Better organized urban areas could reduce the need for gas-powered
transport. Being able to walk for groceries ( more frequent trips with
lighter loads, bicycles with saddle bags, 'granny-carts' ) and other
necessities wouldn't only bring down living expenses but would be much
healthier for the enviroment as well as yourself.
I honestly think it starts with the individual and not large scale
endeavours. Hell, we're looking at getting the frig out of the city (
I'm
sick of having to drive my kids everywhere ) and looking at a place 30
minutes away ... small town, pop of approx 9,000. Everything is nearby
within a 3 minute bike ride or 10 minute walk. Two 'major' grocery
stores,
a
movie theatre in a converted Church basement ( for $30 we covered
admission
for 4 plus a round of popcorn and drinks for all of us ), a bowling
alley,
schools, everything ... all manageable without a stupid vehicle. And the
downtown area is turn of the century and incredibly vibrant with
excellent
restaraunts and useful stores ( not 'boutiques' ). I'm so looking
forward
to
this it's not funny.
I hate the city. we live in the country, in a small village. If not for
our jobs, we would not need our vehicles that much. We are both in the
auto
manufacturing business, so believe me, I do not enjoy reading about peak
oil! :)
That's where we're heading ... my wife works in the city but there's a bus
that runs from where we're looking to city center.
We grow a lot of our own produce and buy much of our meat directly from
local farmers. We heat mainly with wood, supplemented by oil. I can cook
the old-fashioned way...give me some beans, a meaty bone, some veggies and
herbs and I can make a feast! The problem is, there are many, many people
today that eat everything out of a box and think "cooking" is making Kraft
Dinner. While my family has a long way to go to be self-sufficient, some
people will not be capable of it. I still think it will a huge,
disruptive
change.
That's awesome. Easy on the beans tho !
And you are correct about 'KD' generation.
Becoming self-sufficient would be the extreme. I think we're stuck working
as a society.
I think something other then oil that will have to be addressed in the
near
future too is electrical consumption. Someone mentioned nuclear as being
the
more realistic option. But those babies are nasty when it's time to
decommission. Again, I think a combination of personal conservation,
plus
solar with high-density storage capacity would be the most likely
scenario
... but this will be simply to reduce demand on traditional sources of
electrical power such as coal, oil, hydro, and nuclear.
As resources become scarce, prices will increase. Something is going to
have
to change whether we like it or not. May as well plan ahead and try to
keep
a 'sunny' spin on it.... :-)
True. My hydro bills are running at $200 Canuck-bucks a month in
summer...and that's with controls. God only knows what they will be when
the controls come off next May :( !
Same here ...
---
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Version: 6.0.771 / Virus Database: 518 - Release Date: 9/28/04
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
29 Sep 2004 06:30:25 PM |
|
|
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message news:<k3D6d.13256$tT2.1078636@news20.bellglobal.com>...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TVB6d.12863$tT2.1064767@news20.bellglobal.com...
I honestly think it starts with the individual and not large scale
endeavours.
Whoops, Marvin that is a right-wing philosophy. Be careful you can
actually make something happen with that type of attitude ;)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Marvin The Paranoid Android" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
29 Sep 2004 06:51:22 PM |
|
|
"Michael Johnathan McDonald" <abookoflife@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dd3256f0.0409291530.289c7b0c@posting.google.com...
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> wrote in message
news:<k3D6d.13256$tT2.1078636@news20.bellglobal.com>...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TVB6d.12863$tT2.1064767@news20.bellglobal.com...
I honestly think it starts with the individual and not large scale
endeavours.
Whoops, Marvin that is a right-wing philosophy. Be careful you can
actually make something happen with that type of attitude ;)
Yeah, but I still enjoy universal health care and heavily subsidized post
secondary education !
I generally vote Conservative anyways ...
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.767 / Virus Database: 514 - Release Date: 9/21/04
.
|
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|
| User: "Jean Guernon" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
29 Sep 2004 09:53:04 PM |
|
|
Solar farms on a small scale works not even in southern states and
tropical countries, also in France, and a few mills of wind power
generates enough electricity to feed towns in Scandinavian countries,
england, and Quebec.
In Quebec, a few km sq of area in Gaspesia will generate nearly the 1GW
required by the whole region.
http://www.regie-energie.qc.ca/300/312/a-98-02.pdf
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3.3.2.6 Impact sur le réseau Puisqu’il est possible que les besoins et
les conditions économiques suscitent un développement accéléré et que
les deuxième et troisième phases puissent atteindre 100 MW à 150 MW
installés par année, la capacité totale d’un parc éolien en Gaspésie
pourrait atteindre éventuellement près de 900 MW et serait près de la
demande de pointe annuelle locale, soit environ 1 000 MW et risque
souvent d’excéder la demande de la région à d’autres moments.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can imagine easily 1000 of those in the Northern unused tundra. I
mean if only investment is the problem. If they see it that way, this 1
gigawatt of production a day takes a decade to build but then produces
the installed energy equivalent of 15,157.895 bbl a day. 1000 of these
would give off eq. 15 millions barrels a day. The fact is that it can be
sent directly in power lines and stored as hydrogen in specially
designed plants to be used at peek hours.
Even when there will be a switch to hydrogen it will not need to be sent
in pipelines as hydrogen is easy to generate and can always be produced
elsewhere. The local hydrogen plants would be for storage capacity.
Anyway, it is not for nothing that Greenpeace says that we can suffice
the planet in energy with wind power in their recent ad.
along with Armory Lovins improvement on efficiency, wind power can be
quite an asset to counter greenhouse gases catastrophic effects and
middle east shortages, which makes China vote against action in Sudan
for instance. Petroleum wouldn't sway the West, but it does make the
main weasels of the permanent SC (safe Russia) jump in loop for Muslim
ideology.
J.
Jane a écrit:
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:415aacc8$0$10418$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> schreef in bericht
news:8pw6d.10829$tT2.994617@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SEq6d.8048$MD5.734180@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4159ee24$0$10415$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:WNg6d.5545$MD5.562943@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it with a
grain
of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out of
Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it. That
is
very
bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So, when
we
want
to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better the
Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either. Even
if
it
were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their emissions, not
just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also dissenters
in
the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate change is
a
natural
phenomenon and not over influenced by man's activities. After
all,
earth's
climate has changed many, many times over the history of the
planet.
Those dissenters are usually found as "scientists" working for the
industrials
who don't want them to produce frightning news. And the number of
dissidents is slowly decreasing.
The Earth has had its fluctuations in general temperature, but there
has
always been a correlation to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and
the average temperature. What scientist do agree upon in a large
majority
is that the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has indeed increased the
last century caused by environmental pollution by the industry, the
usuage of cars and the heating of our homes. The overinfluencing is
indeed
taking place. Only "scientists" with debatable jobs in the industry
claim
otherwise. Highly recommended scientist such as Stephen Hawking are
certainly not on your side of the political agenda.
I was playing "Devil's Advocate", truth be told. My main point is
that
Kyoto targets only industrialized countries, while those with emerging
economies may emit at will.
I think it will be a moot point, anyway, as the end of the age of
cheap
oil
is nigh. The peak oil theory is one I give credence to, as it is
advocated
not by the usual band of freaks left over from the 60s but by
geologists
in
the field. I'm sure we're in for a rocky road adjusting.
Jane
LOL ... what would be the diff between the '60's freaks and the
geologists
if they both reached the same conclucions?
I don't think you need a degree or to be a rocket scientist to realize
that
the Earth is finite and everything on it or in it is limited. I think
the
'60's freaks were the ones telling people to change the way they lived
so
as
to do as little harm as possible to the enviroment. Are you going to
wait
for the eggheads to come along and tell you this before you start to
believe
it?
Regarding this issue it would have been a lot better if the world has
listened
to those hippies from the 60s. Our energyproviders would have been solar-
wind- and waterenergy already with cars using H2. We listened too much
to scientists who were connected with the industry and to politicians who
are just in power to suit the militairy industrial complex.
You should read the peak oil bible, "The Party's Over", by Richard Heinberg.
In it, he looks at alternative fuels and explains why they will never work
on a large scale (the one that stuck in my mind was ethanol...we would need
every field we now grow corn on...leaving none for human/ animal
consumption...and we still couldn't power a fraction of our cars). He
explains why hydrogen, wind and solar power also will not work. It's an
interesting read.
Jane
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
.
|
|
|
| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: Interesting Disease Theory |
30 Sep 2004 02:35:43 AM |
|
|
Lying old fraud
"Jean Guernon" <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message
news:kyK6d.5567$Du2.4025@edtnps89...
Solar farms on a small scale works not even in southern states and
tropical countries, also in France, and a few mills of wind power
generates enough electricity to feed towns in Scandinavian countries,
england, and Quebec.
In Quebec, a few km sq of area in Gaspesia will generate nearly the 1GW
required by the whole region.
http://www.regie-energie.qc.ca/300/312/a-98-02.pdf
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3.3.2.6 Impact sur le réseau Puisqu’il est possible que les besoins et
les conditions économiques suscitent un développement accéléré et que
les deuxième et troisième phases puissent atteindre 100 MW à 150 MW
installés par année, la capacité totale d’un parc éolien en Gaspésie
pourrait atteindre éventuellement près de 900 MW et serait près de la
demande de pointe annuelle locale, soit environ 1 000 MW et risque
souvent d’excéder la demande de la région à d’autres moments.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can imagine easily 1000 of those in the Northern unused tundra. I
mean if only investment is the problem. If they see it that way, this 1
gigawatt of production a day takes a decade to build but then produces
the installed energy equivalent of 15,157.895 bbl a day. 1000 of these
would give off eq. 15 millions barrels a day. The fact is that it can be
sent directly in power lines and stored as hydrogen in specially
designed plants to be used at peek hours.
Even when there will be a switch to hydrogen it will not need to be sent
in pipelines as hydrogen is easy to generate and can always be produced
elsewhere. The local hydrogen plants would be for storage capacity.
Anyway, it is not for nothing that Greenpeace says that we can suffice
the planet in energy with wind power in their recent ad.
along with Armory Lovins improvement on efficiency, wind power can be
quite an asset to counter greenhouse gases catastrophic effects and
middle east shortages, which makes China vote against action in Sudan
for instance. Petroleum wouldn't sway the West, but it does make the
main weasels of the permanent SC (safe Russia) jump in loop for Muslim
ideology.
J.
Jane a écrit:
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:415aacc8$0$10418$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@galaxy.com> schreef in bericht
news:8pw6d.10829$tT2.994617@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SEq6d.8048$MD5.734180@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4159ee24$0$10415$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:WNg6d.5545$MD5.562943@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41592a70$0$9009$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6CM5d.769$tT2.265507@news20.bellglobal.com...
I like reading any new medical information, but take it with a
grain
of
salt! Interesting article from today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1096150207840
<snipped for convienience; link is above>
Then the Americans better vote Bush and his oil-clique out of
Washington.
He refuses to sign the Kyoto agreement and live up to it. That
is
very
bad
news considering the plausibility of your post right? So, when
we
want
to
prevent such epidemic disasters from happening it's better the
Republicans
are not running America.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Kyoto has major flaws and Russia has not signed it, either. Even
if
it
were
improved so that ALL countries had limits on their emissions, not
just
western countries, it is too late, IMO. There are also dissenters
in
the
scientific community who are of the opinion that climate change is
a
< | | | | | | | | | |
