Is stealing wireless wrong?



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Topic: Science > Prophecies-Of-Nostradamus
User: "mukyuk"
Date: 23 Aug 2007 12:42:56 PM
Object: Is stealing wireless wrong?
A man has been arrested after being spotted allegedly sitting in a street
with a laptop using someone else's unsecured wireless connection. Is it
immoral to do this?
So here's the thing.
You're walking down the street in Hypotheticalville and in front of you is a
gentleman who, when he walks, spills seemingly endless torrents of golden
coins on to the pavement behind him.
He seems unconcerned by this and you notice that if not picked up, these
magic coins quickly evaporate. Is it moral for you to pick a few up?
It's the kind of tree-falls-in-the-forest whimsy that an undergraduate
philosopher might mull over for a moment, but back in the real world a not
entirely dissimilar debate is being played out.
The man arrested in a street in west London is at least the third person to
be accused of breaching the law by taking internet service without
permission.
The Communications Act 2003 says a "person who (a) dishonestly obtains an
electronic communications service, and (b) does so with intent to avoid
payment of a charge applicable to the provision of that service, is guilty
of an offence".
It is a bit like reading your book from the light coming out from
someone's window -- Julian Baggini-- Philosopher
There are also suggestions using somebody else's wireless could come under
the Computer Misuse Act, usually used to combat hacking and electronic
fraud.
But if it can be interpreted as illegal, can it be truly said to be immoral?
Heavy downloading might affect the unsecured person's speed of access or
download limit, but a use like checking an e-mail is hardly likely to be
noticed. Most "victims" will suffer no loss.
Philosopher Nick Bostrom, director of the Future of Humanity Institute at
Oxford University, says with technology moving rapidly, socially-accepted
moral positions can be slow to solidify.
Warchalking identified open wireless networks for those in the know
"I haven't thought about it. I'm not sure anybody has. It might be one of
those areas where cultural norms haven't evolved or stabilised yet. It's so
new it's not clear whether it's stealing or not. And sometimes the law
trails public norms.
"If you steal a silver Mont Blanc pen it's theft but if it's an ordinary
ballpoint pen or a pencil it is assumed you can take it.
"In the olden days people had norms about whether you were able to pick
apples from someone else's tree. Perhaps it's OK if the branches hang over
the road, but not from inside their garden. You have generally shared
expectations."
In 2002 Matt Jones, the original designer of the BBC News website, devised
"warchalking" with a group of friends. These chalk symbols on walls and
pavements showed those in the know where free wireless internet was.
Freeloaders v borrowers
Among the sternest critics of the concept was Nokia, who months later said:
"This is theft, plain and simple."
But they were worried about users congregating near an open network and
slowing it down, as much as by the ethical considerations. For one person
checking an e-mail hardly-stretched home connection, the issue might seem
different to some.
Philosopher Julian Baggini says he can't see what all the fuss is about.
"I'm pro the stealers on this one. If you are doing it systematically to
avoid chipping in your bit you are a freeloader and that's immoral.
Are they going to prosecute someone who stands outside a bakery warming
their hands?
Barry Fox
Technology writer
"But casual and occasional use while travelling is a bit like reading your
book from the light coming out from someone's window. It's like eating
someone's leftovers."
And he's happy to practise what he preaches.
"I've done it and I don't put a password on my own connection. For all I
know that's what someone's doing now.
"But the fact that something is morally acceptable doesn't change the fact
of its illegality. The rule of law is an important factor."
Freeloading is unacceptable, but the whole notion of a crackdown on the
theft of something that won't be missed shows up an increasingly possessive
society.
ISP victims
"We are really obsessed with things being ours or mine. But there are things
that can be shared."
An internet service provider (ISP) might argue it is the victim of wireless
theft. If people could use other people's wireless, why buy their own?
The idea of "piggybacking" off somebody else's system harks back to the dawn
of the internet and the phone phreaking - gaining free calls by cracking the
systems - that inspired many technology pioneers.
There's nothing wrong in a little al fresco surfing is there?
Now, of course, the morality of technology is a matter for mainstream
discourse.
Barry Fox, contributing editor for Europe Consumer Electronics Daily, says
unsecured networks are getting fewer and fewer, but the real moral issue is
why computer firms don't take more responsibility for their customers'
security.
"When I'm in London I'm in a block of flats, I scan and find unsecured
networks. When I first started there were any number of free and unsecured
networks, now it's mainly secured networks because many of the ISPs have
made it much easier.
"There is a view that if people are daft enough to throw their signal out
for anyone to pick up they deserve what they get.
"On the other hand, the computer manufacturers have never done anything to
make things easier for the consumer, unless forced to."
The risk of one's computer being hacked or used for malicious purposes is
not a fiction, and is the reason that many people insist on securing their
wireless connections.
Firework display
But Barry Fox finds it hard to see how a non-invasive use of someone else's
signal is a serious crime. "If the person was trying to infect a computer or
steal data, that's one thing. But are they going to prosecute someone who
stands outside a bakery warming their hands? It is like watching someone
else's firework display."
There will be many people who would be outraged to find someone nicking
their wireless. The water cooler ethicists may be split down the middle for
some time.
But, as Bostrom notes, more attention will bring debates and eventually an
accepted norm.
"Maybe with this arrest somebody will want to write a paper on it," he says.
The "open front door" analogy is correct, but it's not like stealing the
TV - which results in sigificant loss to the property owner. It is much more
like walking in, taking a look at the pictures on the wall, sitting on the
sofa for a few minutes, watching a bit of TV, and then walking out again
leaving everything perfectly intact. I really can't believe that the police
would spend a lot of time persuing people who trespassed in this way as
criminals. I totally agree with the permission argument - if you set up your
wireless network without any security you should be deemed to have allowed
access to all comers.
Andrew, Berkeley, California
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6960304.stm?dynamic_vote=ON#vote_6960304
.

User: "Woodswun"

Title: Re: Is stealing wireless wrong? 23 Aug 2007 05:09:28 PM
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:42:56 +0000, mukyuk wrote:

A man has been arrested after being spotted allegedly sitting in a street
with a laptop using someone else's unsecured wireless connection. Is it
immoral to do this?

Yes. Unless you've discussed it with the person paying for the internet
connection, you're stealing bandwith, and it can impact the legitimate
owner of the wireless router's enjoyment of the connection. (Gamers are
especially vulnerable to "lag").
That said, you're an idiot to not close up your wireless network and
should consider yourself lucky if all anyone ever does is put a little
extra load through your pipe to the net.


So here's the thing.

You're walking down the street in Hypotheticalville and in front of you is a
gentleman who, when he walks, spills seemingly endless torrents of golden
coins on to the pavement behind him.

He seems unconcerned by this and you notice that if not picked up, these
magic coins quickly evaporate. Is it moral for you to pick a few up?

Depends. Are you gonna try to give them back, or are you not going to
tell him and keep them for yourself?


It's the kind of tree-falls-in-the-forest whimsy that an undergraduate
philosopher might mull over for a moment, but back in the real world a
not entirely dissimilar debate is being played out.

The man arrested in a street in west London is at least the third person
to be accused of breaching the law by taking internet service without
permission.

I think that's a silly law. There are a number of wi-fi networks around
that are expressly for public use. A n00b isn't going to know one from
the other.


The Communications Act 2003 says a "person who (a) dishonestly obtains
an electronic communications service, and (b) does so with intent to
avoid payment of a charge applicable to the provision of that service,
is guilty of an offence".

I would take that as stealing from the ISP, not some halfwit who doesn't
know enough to close his network. As you know, there are open wi-fi
connections in every internet cafe that are there for anyone to use - how
is a person supposed to know that something they can get on isn't there
for the public? (This assumes that there was no password cracking going
on to gain access to said wi-fi)/


It is a bit like reading your book from the light coming out from
someone's window -- Julian Baggini-- Philosopher

There are also suggestions using somebody else's wireless could come
under the Computer Misuse Act, usually used to combat hacking and
electronic fraud.

But if it can be interpreted as illegal, can it be truly said to be
immoral?

Intent is everything.


Heavy downloading might affect the unsecured person's speed of access or
download limit, but a use like checking an e-mail is hardly likely to be
noticed. Most "victims" will suffer no loss.

They are a "victim" of their own ineptitude and stupidity. If someone
never bothers to check the tire pressure on his tires, is it someone
else's fault when they go flat? No, of course not - it's standard
maintenance. Just so, it's standard maintenance to secure a network
that's broadcasting.


Philosopher Nick Bostrom, director of the Future of Humanity Institute
at Oxford University, says with technology moving rapidly,
socially-accepted moral positions can be slow to solidify.


Warchalking identified open wireless networks for those in the know

"I haven't thought about it. I'm not sure anybody has. It might be one
of those areas where cultural norms haven't evolved or stabilised yet.
It's so new it's not clear whether it's stealing or not. And sometimes
the law trails public norms.

I think it's more a matter of people don't understand the basics of the
technology. If you had to crack into the network, that would be
"stealing", otherwise, it really depends on the intent of the person who
used the network as to whether it's immoral (although, I prefer the term
"unethical" to "immoral").


"If you steal a silver Mont Blanc pen it's theft but if it's an ordinary
ballpoint pen or a pencil it is assumed you can take it.

Since when?!?


"In the olden days people had norms about whether you were able to pick
apples from someone else's tree. Perhaps it's OK if the branches hang
over the road, but not from inside their garden. You have generally
shared expectations."

In 2002 Matt Jones, the original designer of the BBC News website,
devised "warchalking" with a group of friends. These chalk symbols on
walls and pavements showed those in the know where free wireless
internet was.

Freeloaders v borrowers

Among the sternest critics of the concept was Nokia, who months later
said: "This is theft, plain and simple."

Yes, but is it criminal? I think not.


But they were worried about users congregating near an open network and
slowing it down, as much as by the ethical considerations. For one
person checking an e-mail hardly-stretched home connection, the issue
might seem different to some.

Philosopher Julian Baggini says he can't see what all the fuss is about.

"I'm pro the stealers on this one. If you are doing it systematically to
avoid chipping in your bit you are a freeloader and that's immoral.

Are they going to prosecute someone who stands outside a bakery
warming
their hands?

Barry Fox
Technology writer

"But casual and occasional use while travelling is a bit like reading
your book from the light coming out from someone's window. It's like
eating someone's leftovers."

And he's happy to practise what he preaches.

"I've done it and I don't put a password on my own connection. For all I
know that's what someone's doing now.

"But the fact that something is morally acceptable doesn't change the
fact of its illegality. The rule of law is an important factor."

Freeloading is unacceptable, but the whole notion of a crackdown on the
theft of something that won't be missed shows up an increasingly
possessive society.

ISP victims

"We are really obsessed with things being ours or mine. But there are
things that can be shared."

An internet service provider (ISP) might argue it is the victim of
wireless theft. If people could use other people's wireless, why buy
their own?

The idea of "piggybacking" off somebody else's system harks back to the
dawn of the internet and the phone phreaking - gaining free calls by
cracking the systems - that inspired many technology pioneers.


There's nothing wrong in a little al fresco surfing is there?

Now, of course, the morality of technology is a matter for mainstream
discourse.

Barry Fox, contributing editor for Europe Consumer Electronics Daily,
says unsecured networks are getting fewer and fewer, but the real moral
issue is why computer firms don't take more responsibility for their
customers' security.

"When I'm in London I'm in a block of flats, I scan and find unsecured
networks. When I first started there were any number of free and
unsecured networks, now it's mainly secured networks because many of the
ISPs have made it much easier.

"There is a view that if people are daft enough to throw their signal
out for anyone to pick up they deserve what they get.

"On the other hand, the computer manufacturers have never done anything
to make things easier for the consumer, unless forced to."

The risk of one's computer being hacked or used for malicious purposes
is not a fiction, and is the reason that many people insist on securing
their wireless connections.

Firework display

But Barry Fox finds it hard to see how a non-invasive use of someone
else's signal is a serious crime. "If the person was trying to infect a
computer or steal data, that's one thing. But are they going to
prosecute someone who stands outside a bakery warming their hands? It is
like watching someone else's firework display."

I agree. In fact, I don't think it should be a 'serious crime' to even
use the network enough to slow the legitimate ISP customer's connectivity
to a crawl.
Now, if you're using someone else's connection to cover your tracks for
something illegal, now THAT is a crime.


There will be many people who would be outraged to find someone nicking
their wireless. The water cooler ethicists may be split down the middle
for some time.

But, as Bostrom notes, more attention will bring debates and eventually
an accepted norm.

"Maybe with this arrest somebody will want to write a paper on it," he
says.

Well, geez, this article practically was!


The "open front door" analogy is correct, but it's not like stealing the
TV - which results in sigificant loss to the property owner. It is much
more like walking in, taking a look at the pictures on the wall, sitting
on the sofa for a few minutes, watching a bit of TV, and then walking
out again leaving everything perfectly intact. I really can't believe
that the police would spend a lot of time persuing people who trespassed
in this way as criminals. I totally agree with the permission argument -
if you set up your wireless network without any security you should be
deemed to have allowed access to all comers. Andrew, Berkeley,
California

Yup. A lot of businesses do that, no reason to expect the end user to be
able to tell that they're connecting to Joe Idiot's home network instead
of Wi-Fi Cafe.
Woods


http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6960304.stm?dynamic_vote=ON#vote_6960304

.
User: "mukyuk"

Title: Re: Is stealing wireless wrong? 23 Aug 2007 06:32:31 PM
The title of the article was a little thought provoking. Presumably it's
wrong to steal 'anything'.
.
User: "Werewolfy"

Title: Re: Is stealing wireless wrong? 23 Aug 2007 08:33:03 PM
On Aug 24, 12:32?am, "mukyuk" <a...@b.com> wrote:

The title of the article was a little thought provoking. Presumably it's
wrong to steal 'anything'.

First question to answer in theft is, 'Is it capable of being stolen?'
Then, 'Does it have an owner'.
Heat from a bakery is not 'capable of being stolen', so would not
become theft. An abstract item of 'property', such as electricity or,
as in this discussion, internet services, also cannot be stolen. They
cannot be carried away, therefore do not fulfill the definition of
theft.
To counteract this, laws governing such actions that are deemed wrong
are passed. 'Fraudulant abstraction of electricity' is one such. The
same applies to the internet services. They cannot be stolen, but a
Country may make a law...and do make such laws...criminalising the act
of misappropriation.
Obviously, I am discussing English Law.
The article is interesting, but obviously not written by someone who
deals with legislation..or perhaps prefers to word the article in a
way that provokes thought.
Moral questions are another matter. A fair few people would say many
things were allowed to be 'appropriated' then add, "As long as they
are not mine".
Werewolfy
.
User: "mukyuk"

Title: Re: Is stealing wireless wrong? 23 Aug 2007 09:44:58 PM
"Werewolfy" <Werewolfy1@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1187919183.230312.169700@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

On Aug 24, 12:32?am, "mukyuk" <a...@b.com> wrote:

The title of the article was a little thought provoking. Presumably it's
wrong to steal 'anything'.


First question to answer in theft is, 'Is it capable of being stolen?'
Then, 'Does it have an owner'.

Heat from a bakery is not 'capable of being stolen', so would not
become theft. An abstract item of 'property', such as electricity or,
as in this discussion, internet services, also cannot be stolen. They
cannot be carried away, therefore do not fulfill the definition of
theft.
To counteract this, laws governing such actions that are deemed wrong
are passed. 'Fraudulant abstraction of electricity' is one such. The
same applies to the internet services. They cannot be stolen, but a
Country may make a law...and do make such laws...criminalising the act
of misappropriation.

Obviously, I am discussing English Law.

The article is interesting, but obviously not written by someone who
deals with legislation..or perhaps prefers to word the article in a
way that provokes thought.

Moral questions are another matter. A fair few people would say many
things were allowed to be 'appropriated' then add, "As long as they
are not mine".

In some circles it's common practice to deliberately leave the network open
so as to share. They do it as a means of rebelling against the greedy
corporations.


Werewolfy

.
User: "Werewolfy"

Title: Re: Is stealing wireless wrong? 24 Aug 2007 03:11:48 AM
On Aug 24, 3:44?am, "mukyuk" <a...@b.com> wrote:

In some circles it's common practice to deliberately leave the network open
so as to share. They do it as a means of rebelling against the greedy
corporations.

Now you now I just love that word, Mondo. 'Rebel'.
Mention that and my interest rises 100%. Well done to those who share
networks and if their motives are in reprisal against profiteering, I
support that.
Laws prohibiting many things are enacted that do not necessarily
represent the 'Wish of the People'. Any law will only work with the
consent of the people. Apathy is responsible for much of our
acceptance of restrictive legislation. Human Nature I suppose is the
culprit there.
Despite my ummm..earlier profession, or perhaps even bcause of it...I
am the first to walk on the grass when a sign forbids that practice.
You're right. The article is thought-provoking.
Werewolfy
.
User: "mukyuk"

Title: Re: Is stealing wireless wrong? 24 Aug 2007 10:04:08 AM
"Werewolfy" <Werewolfy1@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1187943108.941804.213400@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

On Aug 24, 3:44?am, "mukyuk" <a...@b.com> wrote:

In some circles it's common practice to deliberately leave the network
open
so as to share. They do it as a means of rebelling against the greedy
corporations.


Now you now I just love that word, Mondo. 'Rebel'.
Mention that and my interest rises 100%. Well done to those who share
networks and if their motives are in reprisal against profiteering, I
support that.

Laws prohibiting many things are enacted that do not necessarily
represent the 'Wish of the People'. Any law will only work with the
consent of the people. Apathy is responsible for much of our
acceptance of restrictive legislation. Human Nature I suppose is the
culprit there.

Despite my ummm..earlier profession, or perhaps even bcause of it...I
am the first to walk on the grass when a sign forbids that practice.

You're right. The article is thought-provoking.

he he he. I could easily relate to all you said!!


Werewolfy



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