http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007
A PAINFUL measure of just how much Iraq has changed in the
four years since I started coming here is contained in my
cellphone. Many numbers in the address book are for Iraqis
who have either fled the country or been killed. One of the
first Sunni politicians: gunned down. A Shiite baker: missing.
A Sunni family: moved to Syria.
I first came to Iraq in April 2003, at the end of the looting
several weeks after the American invasion. In all, I have spent
22 months here, time enough for the place, its people and their
ever-evolving tragedy to fix itself firmly in my heart.
Now, as I am leaving Iraq, a new American plan is unfolding in
the capital. It feels as if we have come back to the beginning.
Boots are on the ground again. Boxy Humvees move in the streets.
Baghdad fell in 2003 and we are still trying to pick it back up.
But Iraq is a different country now.
The moderates are mostly gone. My phone includes at least a
dozen entries for middle-class families who have given up and
moved away. They were supposed to build democracy here. Instead
they work odd jobs in Syria and Jordan. Even the moderate
political leaders have left. I have three numbers for Adnan
Pachachi, the distinguished Iraqi statesman; none have Iraqi
country codes.
Neighborhoods I used to visit a year ago with my armed guards
and my black abaya are off limits. Most were Sunni and had been
merely dangerous. Now they are dead. A neighborhood that used
to be Baghdad’s Upper East Side has the dilapidated, broken
feel of a city just hit by a hurricane.
The Iraqi government and the political process, which seemed
to have great promise a year ago, have soured. Deeply damaged
from years of abuse under Saddam Hussein, the Shiites who run
the government have themselves turned into abusers.
Never having covered a civil war before, I learned about it
together with my Iraqi friends. It is a bit like watching a
slow-motion train wreck. Broken bodies fly past. Faces freeze
in one’s memory in the moments before impact. Passengers grab
handles and doorframes that simply tear off or uselessly
collapse.
I learned how much violence changes people, and how trust is
chipped away, leaving society a thin layer of moth-eaten fabric
that tears easily. It has unraveled so quickly. A year ago, my
interviews were peppered with phrases like “Iraqis are all
brothers.” The subjects would get angry when you asked their
sect. Now some of them introduce themselves that way.
I met Raad Jassim, a 38-year-old Shiite refugee, in a largely
empty house, recently owned by Sunnis, where he now lives in
western Baghdad. He moved there in the fall, after Sunni
militants killed his brother and his nephew and confiscated
his large chicken farm north of Baghdad. He had lived with
Sunnis his whole life, but after what happened, a hatred
spread through him like a disease.
“The word Sunni, it hurts me,” he said, sitting on the floor
in a bare room, his 7-year-old boy on his lap. “All that I
have lost came from this word. I try to avoid mixing with
them.”
“A volcano of revenge” has built up inside him, he said.
“I want to rip them up with my teeth.”
In another measure of just how much things have changed,
Mr. Jassim’s Shiite neighborhood is relatively safe. The area
is now largely free of Sunnis, after Shiite militias swept it
last year, and it runs smoothly on a complex network of
relationships among the local militias, the police and a
powerful local council. His street is dotted with fruit
stands. Boys in uniforms roughhouse. Men sit in teahouses
sipping from tiny glass cups.
Just to the south, the Sunni neighborhood of Dawoodi is ghostly
at almost any time of day. Wide boulevards trimmed with palm
trees used to connect luxury homes. Now giant piles of trash
go uncollected in the median.
A serious problem is dead bodies. They began to appear several
times a week last summer on the railroad tracks that run through
the neighborhood. But when residents call the police to pick up
the bodies, they do not come. The police are Shiite and afraid
of the area.
“Entering a Sunni area for them is a risk,” said Yasir, a
40-year-old Sunni whose house is close to the dumping ground.
A few weeks ago, a woman’s body appeared. It was raining. Yasir
said he covered her with blankets and called the police. A day
later the police arrived. They peeked under the waterlogged
blanket and drove away. It was another day before they collected
the body. They took it at night, turning off their headlights
and inching toward the area like thieves.
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering. A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make
up 80 percent of the population, will tell you that in spite of
all the mistakes the Americans have made here, the single act
of removing Saddam Hussein was worth it. And the new American
plan, despite all the obstacles, may have a chance to work.
With an Iraqi colleague, I have been studying a neighborhood
in northern Baghdad that has become a dumping ground for bodies.
There, after American troops conducted sweeps, the number of
corpses dropped by a third in September. The new plan is built
around that kind of tactic. But the odds are stacked against
the corps of bright young officers charged with making the
plan work, particularly because their Iraqi partner — the
government of Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki — seems to
be on an entirely different page. When American officials were
debating whether to send more troops in December, I went to see
an Iraqi government official. The prospect of more troops
infuriated him. More Americans would simply prolong the war,
he said.
“If you don’t allow the minority to lose, you will carry on
forever,” he said.
The remarks struck me as a powerful insight into the Shiites’
thinking. Abused under Mr. Hussein, they still act like an
oppressed class. That means Iraqis are looking into a future
of war, at least in the near term. As one young Shiite in
Sadr City said to me: “This just has to burn itself out.”
Hazim al-Aaraji, a disciple of the renegade Shiite cleric
Moktada al-Sadr, understands this. A cleric himself, he is
looking for foot soldiers for the war. On a warm October
afternoon, as he bustled around his mosque in western Baghdad,
he said the ideal disciples would have “an empty mind,” and
a weapon. Surprised by the word choice, an Iraqi friend I was
with stopped him, to clarify his intent. Once again, he used
the word “empty.”
The frank remark spoke of a new power balance, in which
radicals rule and moderates have no voice. For many families
I have become attached to here, the country is no longer
recognizable.
I met Haifa and her husband, Hassan, both teachers, in a
driveway in western Baghdad. They had just found the body of
their 12-year-old son, who had been kidnapped and brutally
killed, and were frantic with grief. They finally decided to
leave Iraq, but its violence tormented them to the end. They
paid a man to drive them to Jordan, but he was working with
Sunni militants in western Iraq, and pointed out Hassan, a
Shiite, to a Sunni gang that stopped the car. Over the next
several hours, Haifa waved a tiny Koran at men in masks,
pleading for her husband’s release, her two remaining children
in tow.
Hassan, meanwhile, knelt in a small room, his hands behind his
back. His captors shot a man next to him in the neck. Haifa,
a Sunni, eventually prevailed on them to let him go. The family
returned to Baghdad, then borrowed money to fly to Jordan.
Now they live there, in a tiny basement apartment without
windows in a white stone housing project on the side of a hill.
Like many Iraqis there, they live in hiding. Residency permits
cost $100,000, far beyond their means. Hassan cannot work, nor
even risk leaving the house during the day for fear the Jordanian
police will deport him.
He tries not to talk to people, afraid someone will recognize
his Iraqi accent. He doesn’t bargain in the vegetable market.
He accepts mean remarks by Jordanian cabdrivers wordlessly.
Most of all, he wants to go home. “But death is waiting for us
there,” he tells me. “We are homeless. Please help us.”
.
|
|
| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
29 Jan 2007 09:02:58 PM |
|
|
On Jan 29, 7:48 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170033519.167185.146950@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 3:31 pm, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:1170015560.206193.148400@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:57 am, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:26 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:46 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks
<eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80
percent
of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes
the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam
Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000 double
amputees...tens of thousands of dead civilians, children and
babies...infrastructure shattered, sporadic electrical and water
service
for nearly 4 years, hundreds dead every week, hundreds more
injured
and
crippled every week, weak floundering government, civil war,
Iran
moves in
(reportedly) with agents and special forces, an American
administration
sunk to the bottom, the American people bitterly divided, huge
amounts
of
money for war contracts wasted (and you didn't even have to pay
extra
taxes!!), money pulled ot of social programs for the poor,
disabled,
homeless; Halliburton's no-bid windfall-profit marathon
contracts,
increased
terrorist attacks, a widening of the war into Somalia (with
heavy
civilian
casualties), many thousands more troops moving in, naval forces
heading
for the Gulf...why, heavens to Betsy! Removing a tyrant that
didn't
threaten the US's security, and a tyrant the Iraqis had the
responsibility
to remove if they wanted freedom so badly, well, gettin' Saddam
out
sure as hell costs a lot. One tinhorn dictator and all this
bloody
fucking
cost. And you know what, saphead? You didn't have to bloody a
finger
to do
it, pay any extra taxes to support it, and neither did the
leaders
you
support and their families or
friends, and neither did the great majority of Americans have to
sacrifice a thing to get the deed done. *****, even the hanging
was
an
ugly insane hateful affair by that wonderful US-supported
government,
that bastion of civilization amidst the barbarians.
Yeah, it was sure fucking *worth* it...that ol' righteous-*****
ideological-wallow of a war sure feels good, don't it, fella?
Nice
and
cozy here, ain't it, sittin' on your ergonomic chair, playin'
with
the
expensive binary machine, scratching your hairy
nutz...and kissin' the Bible.
Sheeeeesh....you ***** psycho.
Oh, maybe you didn't notice the point was that a great many
Shiites
and Kurds say it was worth it.
Oh, yeah, Stevie the majority of Iraqis think it was just great we
sacrificed our lives to throw off a dictator that they were unable
to
muster the courage, organization, and firepower to depose violently.
And maybe you didn't notice that the words you're currently referring
to were taken right out of Randolph's article.
No, I noticed it all, Kid. And why is it that freedom means so little
to
them that they had to wait for the day that some foreign power would
come
in and help gie it to them? And all the while suffering under a
dictator,
but unable to muster the moral determination and physical power to
depose
it? Wow! Do you think the American colonists should've called in a
major
military force from some foreign country (maybe promising them a big
pile
of money and property as an incentive) and had them help give them
their
freedom from an English monarchy?
The French did help. I'm surprised someone of your great intellect was
unaware of that fact.
Oh, I was sure you'd bring that up...did the French START THE REVOLUTION
or organize it? No! And did the French work for the same goal as the
American colonialists? No!
You're missing the point, and it was your own point. You said
something about how you expect the oppressed to rise up without any
help. Well, the colonists tried that, didn't they? But it's likely
they would have failed without help from the French. But then maybe
you wish they had failed. The point is that you expect people to rise
up and throw off an oppressor without any help, which is more
difficult than you choose to acknowledge.
good luck with your 'correction' of the AP writer's story.
I didn't mention "correction" in either my email or in my post. I
don't expect a correction.
I'm sure he's laughing himself silly right now.
Sure, why not? Typical of reporters who don't care about the truth.
Have you ever been quoted by a reporter? They don't care about facts.
Most have an agenda to promote, and that's all that matters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Docrodile" |
|
| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
29 Jan 2007 10:35:41 PM |
|
|
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170126178.556786.203850@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 29, 7:48 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170033519.167185.146950@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 3:31 pm, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:1170015560.206193.148400@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:57 am, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:26 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:46 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks
<eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80
percent
of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes
the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam
Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000
double
amputees...tens of thousands of dead civilians, children and
babies...infrastructure shattered, sporadic electrical and
water
service
for nearly 4 years, hundreds dead every week, hundreds more
injured
and
crippled every week, weak floundering government, civil war,
Iran
moves in
(reportedly) with agents and special forces, an American
administration
sunk to the bottom, the American people bitterly divided,
huge
amounts
of
money for war contracts wasted (and you didn't even have to
pay
extra
taxes!!), money pulled ot of social programs for the poor,
disabled,
homeless; Halliburton's no-bid windfall-profit marathon
contracts,
increased
terrorist attacks, a widening of the war into Somalia (with
heavy
civilian
casualties), many thousands more troops moving in, naval
forces
heading
for the Gulf...why, heavens to Betsy! Removing a tyrant that
didn't
threaten the US's security, and a tyrant the Iraqis had the
responsibility
to remove if they wanted freedom so badly, well, gettin'
Saddam
out
sure as hell costs a lot. One tinhorn dictator and all this
bloody
fucking
cost. And you know what, saphead? You didn't have to bloody a
finger
to do
it, pay any extra taxes to support it, and neither did the
leaders
you
support and their families or
friends, and neither did the great majority of Americans have
to
sacrifice a thing to get the deed done. *****, even the
hanging
was
an
ugly insane hateful affair by that wonderful US-supported
government,
that bastion of civilization amidst the barbarians.
Yeah, it was sure fucking *worth* it...that ol' righteous-*****
ideological-wallow of a war sure feels good, don't it, fella?
Nice
and
cozy here, ain't it, sittin' on your ergonomic chair, playin'
with
the
expensive binary machine, scratching your hairy
nutz...and kissin' the Bible.
Sheeeeesh....you ***** psycho.
Oh, maybe you didn't notice the point was that a great many
Shiites
and Kurds say it was worth it.
Oh, yeah, Stevie the majority of Iraqis think it was just great
we
sacrificed our lives to throw off a dictator that they were
unable
to
muster the courage, organization, and firepower to depose
violently.
And maybe you didn't notice that the words you're currently
referring
to were taken right out of Randolph's article.
No, I noticed it all, Kid. And why is it that freedom means so
little
to
them that they had to wait for the day that some foreign power would
come
in and help gie it to them? And all the while suffering under a
dictator,
but unable to muster the moral determination and physical power to
depose
it? Wow! Do you think the American colonists should've called in a
major
military force from some foreign country (maybe promising them a big
pile
of money and property as an incentive) and had them help give them
their
freedom from an English monarchy?
The French did help. I'm surprised someone of your great intellect
was
unaware of that fact.
Oh, I was sure you'd bring that up...did the French START THE
REVOLUTION
or organize it? No! And did the French work for the same goal as the
American colonialists? No!
You're missing the point, and it was your own point. You said
something about how you expect the oppressed to rise up without any
help. Well, the colonists tried that, didn't they? But it's likely
they would have failed without help from the French. But then maybe
you wish they had failed. The point is that you expect people to rise
up and throw off an oppressor without any help, which is more
difficult than you choose to acknowledge.
The French weren't there helping Americans to accomplish their goal, they
were in the war to accomplish France's -- and that goal, Stevie, had
nothing to do with gaining freedom, but furthering the French monarchial
empire in America and in Canada. And you think the American colonists
could not have gained their freedom from the British without the French
working with them to further their tyrannical empire? Well, had the French
succeeded, a good chunk of America would've been under French monarchial
rule --- and do you think the American colonists would've accepted it? As
it turned out, the two 'comrades' were working for two totally different
goals, Washington knew that and wrote in his memoirs about it. He worried
that the French would have to be fought later...and would America win THAT
war? Wasn't a great idea to accept the French monarchy's offer of help!
It's debatable whether American colonists needed the French, and no one
can be sure whether they could've succeeded without the French. Historians
will argue that forever...BUT one thing is clear about throwing off
tyranny, for the colonists then, and for the Iraqis today (and applying to
all in history that have or wanted to):
That using foreign power to help one throw off tyranny WITHOUT THAT
FOREIGN POWER BEING DIRECTLY THREATENED BY THE SOVEREIGN TYRANNY IS A
MISUSE OF MILITARY FORCE--A VIOLATION OF THE VERY PURPOSE A MILITARY FORCE
HAS, AND THAT IS TO DEFEND AGAINST A DIRECT THREAT OR AN ATTACK. Setting
up a preemptive first-strike policy based on faulty intelligence, and
therefore no direct threat is evident nor an attack has occurred, is an
illegal, immoral, unnecessary violation of a sovereign power and a
violation of a sovereign power's people's responsibility to find a way, a
means, an opportunity to oppose a power they find unsatisfactory. To use A
MILITARY FORCE TO ENFORCE AN IDEOLOGY BASED SOLELY ON IDEOLOGY AND A
DIRECT THREAT IS NOT POSED, OR AN INVASION HAS NOT OCCURRED OUTSIDE THE
SOVEREIGN POWER'S BORDERS IS UNJUSTIFIED, ILLEGAL, IMMORAL AND CONSTITUTES
A CLEAR VIOLATION OF A SOVEREIGN POWER AND THE RIGHT OF A SOVEREIGN PEOPLE
TO FIND A WAY, A MEANS, AND AN OPPORTUNITY TO OPPOSE A GOVERNMENT THEY
FIND UNSATISFACTORY.
DO YOU FUCKING GET IT, KID...DO YOU FUCKING GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD HOW
WRONG OUR GOVERMENT HAS BEEN IN PREEMPTIVELY INVADING IRAQ? DO YOU GET IT
THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULL, KID????
LET ME REPEAT IT -- WE CANNOT USE OUR MILITARY FORCE TO ENFORCE OUR
IDEOLOGICAL DESIGN ON THE WORLD, KID, UNLESS, AS FORD EMPHASIZED, A DIRECT
THREAT IS POSED TO OUR NATIONAL SECURITY (or an actual attack has already
occurred). NOW, WAS IT FOUND THAT IRAQ POSED A DIRECT THREAT AGAINST OUR
SECURITY, KID?
ANWER THAT!!!
DID WE FIND SUCH A THREAT???? DID IRAQ ATTACK US OR OUR NATIONAL
INTERESTS???
WHAT WAS THE THREAT, KID, THAT PROMPTED US TO PREEMPTIVELY ATTACK IRAQ??
THE WMD, RIGHT? AND DID WE FIND THE WMD THERE?? Well, goddamnit, Stevie,
DID WE????
AND NOT FINDING A DIRECT THREAT,NOT FINDING THE EVIDENCE OF IT, AND NOT
DEFENDING AGAINST AN ACTUAL ATTACK, WHAT WAS THE REASON WE PREEMPTIVELY
ATTACKED IRAQ and occupied it, removed its government, and are now in the
midst of a fucking civil war?!?!
YOU AND YOUR ILK WANT US TO ACCEPT USING OUR MILITARY FORCES TO MOVE
AGAINST A TYRANT THAT IS A SOVEREIGN PROBLEM, AND YOU WANT US TO HELP A
SOVEREIGN PEOPLE AGAINST THAT TYRANT, WITHOUT ANY OUTSIDE THREAT PROVED,
OR ANY OUTSIDE ATTACK. YOU AND YOUR NEOCON BUDDIES ARE FUCKING IDEOLOGICAL
NUTCASES WHO WANT TO EXPEND HUMAN LIFE, AS WE HAVE DONE IN LARGE NUMBERS
ALREADY AND ARE DOING EVERY YEAR FOR FOUR YEARS, TO GIVE YOU THE
SATISFACTION OF REALIZING YOUR IDEOLOGICAL GOAL, YOUR IDEOLOGICAL MISSION.
WELL, THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING USING AND DISPOSING OF OUR YOUNG MEN AND
WOMEN'S LIVES TO SATISFY YOUR IDEOLOGICAL GOALS, YOU ***** *****!!!!
AND THE SAME THANKS TO YOUR FUCKING PSYCHOTIC FANATICAL LEADERS YOU
SUPPORT!!!!!
I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO SAY TO YOU, YOU ***** PSYCHO!!!!
YOU'RE NOT ONLY 'MISSING THE POINT' YOU'RE MISSING YOUR ***** SANITY AND
HUMANITY!!!!
It's all about YOU, you insufferable fucker, and what YOU want to satisfy
your religio-political 'boy scout' philosophy that is immature, wrong as
hell, stupid as all *****, totally psychotic, self-serving, myopic.....
How would you have like it to have gotten your ***** arms or legs or all
four limbs blown the ***** because some mall-shoppin' computer
keyboard-tappin' psychotic ex-peacetime soldier was supporting his little
ideology 10,000 protective miles away???? And that lil' solider, who
never saw battle action, thought it was a GREAT IDEA TO OPPOSE A DICTATOR
that REPRESENTED NO THREAT TO HIS LITTLE PRISTINE WORLD THOUSANDS OF MILES
AWAY, AND A GREAT IDEA TO LIBERATE A PEOPLE UNDER THAT DICTATOR EVEN
THOUGH THE DICTATOR NEVER POSED A DIRECT THREAT OR ATTACKED HIS
NATION!!!!! It was just a GREAT IDEA to use up other peoples' lives for
what he thought was a MORAL PRINCIPLE that needed defending.
DID FORD USE THAT LIL' SOLDIER'S MORAL PRINCIPLE TO INVADE CAMBODIA, THROW
OFF A TYRANNY THERE, AND DID THAT DICTATORSHIP REPRESENT A DIRECT THREAT,
OR DID IT ATTACK?
SHOULD BUSH INVADE NORTH KOREA...SHOULD HE INVADE CHINA...well, *****,
SHOULD HE??????????????????????????????????????????? THEY ACTUALLY DO HAVE
NUKES, YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LET'S GET ON
WITH A WORLD WAR, *****!!!!! THEN YOU CAN HAVE THE PAIN AND DEATH
DELIVERED TO YOU UP YOUR ***** HERE!!!!!
Docrodile
good luck with your 'correction' of the AP writer's story.
I didn't mention "correction" in either my email or in my post. I
don't expect a correction.
I'm sure he's laughing himself silly right now.
Sure, why not? Typical of reporters who don't care about the truth.
Have you ever been quoted by a reporter? They don't care about facts.
Most have an agenda to promote, and that's all that matters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
29 Jan 2007 11:05:25 PM |
|
|
On Jan 29, 8:35 pm, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170126178.556786.203850@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 29, 7:48 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170033519.167185.146950@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 3:31 pm, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:1170015560.206193.148400@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:57 am, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:26 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:46 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks
<eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80
percent
of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes
the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam
Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000
double
amputees...tens of thousands of dead civilians, children and
babies...infrastructure shattered, sporadic electrical and
water
service
for nearly 4 years, hundreds dead every week, hundreds more
injured
and
crippled every week, weak floundering government, civil war,
Iran
moves in
(reportedly) with agents and special forces, an American
administration
sunk to the bottom, the American people bitterly divided,
huge
amounts
of
money for war contracts wasted (and you didn't even have to
pay
extra
taxes!!), money pulled ot of social programs for the poor,
disabled,
homeless; Halliburton's no-bid windfall-profit marathon
contracts,
increased
terrorist attacks, a widening of the war into Somalia (with
heavy
civilian
casualties), many thousands more troops moving in, naval
forces
heading
for the Gulf...why, heavens to Betsy! Removing a tyrant that
didn't
threaten the US's security, and a tyrant the Iraqis had the
responsibility
to remove if they wanted freedom so badly, well, gettin'
Saddam
out
sure as hell costs a lot. One tinhorn dictator and all this
bloody
fucking
cost. And you know what, saphead? You didn't have to bloody a
finger
to do
it, pay any extra taxes to support it, and neither did the
leaders
you
support and their families or
friends, and neither did the great majority of Americans have
to
sacrifice a thing to get the deed done. *****, even the
hanging
was
an
ugly insane hateful affair by that wonderful US-supported
government,
that bastion of civilization amidst the barbarians.
Yeah, it was sure fucking *worth* it...that ol' righteous-*****
ideological-wallow of a war sure feels good, don't it, fella?
Nice
and
cozy here, ain't it, sittin' on your ergonomic chair, playin'
with
the
expensive binary machine, scratching your hairy
nutz...and kissin' the Bible.
Sheeeeesh....you ***** psycho.
Oh, maybe you didn't notice the point was that a great many
Shiites
and Kurds say it was worth it.
Oh, yeah, Stevie the majority of Iraqis think it was just great
we
sacrificed our lives to throw off a dictator that they were
unable
to
muster the courage, organization, and firepower to depose
violently.
And maybe you didn't notice that the words you're currently
referring
to were taken right out of Randolph's article.
No, I noticed it all, Kid. And why is it that freedom means so
little
to
them that they had to wait for the day that some foreign power would
come
in and help gie it to them? And all the while suffering under a
dictator,
but unable to muster the moral determination and physical power to
depose
it? Wow! Do you think the American colonists should've called in a
major
military force from some foreign country (maybe promising them a big
pile
of money and property as an incentive) and had them help give them
their
freedom from an English monarchy?
The French did help. I'm surprised someone of your great intellect
was
unaware of that fact.
Oh, I was sure you'd bring that up...did the French START THE
REVOLUTION
or organize it? No! And did the French work for the same goal as the
American colonialists? No!
You're missing the point, and it was your own point. You said
something about how you expect the oppressed to rise up without any
help. Well, the colonists tried that, didn't they? But it's likely
they would have failed without help from the French. But then maybe
you wish they had failed. The point is that you expect people to rise
up and throw off an oppressor without any help, which is more
difficult than you choose to acknowledge.
The French weren't there helping Americans to accomplish their goal, they
were in the war to accomplish France's --
Ah, you missed the point again. And if you think I'm going to read all
that upper case blabbering, think again.
.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
|
| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
30 Jan 2007 03:07:53 AM |
|
|
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170126178.556786.203850@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 29, 7:48 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170033519.167185.146950@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 3:31 pm, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:1170015560.206193.148400@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:57 am, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:26 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:46 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks
<eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
good luck with your 'correction' of the AP writer's story.
I didn't mention "correction" in either my email or in my post. I
don't expect a correction.
I'm sure he's laughing himself silly right now.
Sure, why not? Typical of reporters who don't care about the truth.
Have you ever been quoted by a reporter? They don't care about facts.
Most have an agenda to promote, and that's all that matters.j
THEN WHY BOTHER?? LOL!!! You damn psycho!
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
30 Jan 2007 08:26:53 AM |
|
|
On Jan 30, 1:07 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170126178.556786.203850@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 29, 7:48 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170033519.167185.146950@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 3:31 pm, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:1170015560.206193.148400@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:57 am, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:26 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:46 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks
<eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
good luck with your 'correction' of the AP writer's story.
I didn't mention "correction" in either my email or in my post. I
don't expect a correction.
I'm sure he's laughing himself silly right now.
Sure, why not? Typical of reporters who don't care about the truth.
Have you ever been quoted by a reporter? They don't care about facts.
Most have an agenda to promote, and that's all that matters.j
THEN WHY BOTHER??
Just giving him a point of fact of which he was obviously ignorant.
.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
|
| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
30 Jan 2007 02:12:09 PM |
|
|
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170167213.173210.234100@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 30, 1:07 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170126178.556786.203850@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 29, 7:48 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170033519.167185.146950@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 3:31 pm, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:1170015560.206193.148400@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:57 am, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:26 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:46 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas"
<dste...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks
<eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
THEN WHY BOTHER??
Just giving him a point of fact of which he was obviously ignorant.
He's already filed your 'point' in his circular file...where it belongs.
.
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| User: "Dr. Bipolar" |
|
| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
27 Jan 2007 09:38:37 PM |
|
|
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it. And the new American plan, despite all the obstacles,
may have a chance to work.
And here's what a native Iraqi has to say:
By NIBRAS KAZIMI
January 25, 2007
[excerpt] The wider Sunni insurgency - the groups beyond Al Qaeda - is
being slowly, and surely, defeated. The average insurgent today feels
demoralized, disillusioned, and hunted. Those who have not been
captured yet are opting for a quieter life outside of Iraq. Al Qaeda
continues to grow for the time being as it cannibalizes the other
insurgent groups and absorbs their most radical and hardcore fringes
into its fold. The Baathists, who had been critical in spurring the
initial insurgency, are becoming less and less relevant, and are
drifting without a clear purpose following the hanging of their idol,
Saddam Hussein. Rounding out this changing landscape is that Al Qaeda
itself is getting a serious beating as the Americans improve in
intelligence gathering and partner with more reliable Iraqi forces.
In other words, battling the insurgency now essentially means battling
Al Qaeda. This is a major accomplishment.
Last October, my sources began telling me about rumblings among the
insurgent strategists suggesting that their murderous endeavor was
about to run out of steam. This sense of fatigue began registering
among mid-level insurgent commanders in late December, and it has
devolved to the rank and file since then. The insurgents have begun to
feel that the tide has turned against them. [end excerpt]
It's always nice to hear from a 'feel-good' propagandist for the Bush
failed policy. You know things are going really badly by the frequency
and rosiness of these planted stories. I wonder how many times he had
to bend over for a good *****-crackin' from Cheney and Bush. It's
amazing that violence can continue at an accelerated pace, with the
casualties piling up daily as usual, and yet sit on your neocon *****
and gorge yourself with this plate of gaseous pig food. Surreal...my
generation used to hear exactly the same ***** stories during the
worsening of the Viet Nam War...yep, we're takin' it to the enemy, and
we got 'em on the run...it's just a matter of time now, and all will
be well, and we'll be heroes!!!!
LOL! You ***** psycho!
Dr. Bipolar :)~
http://www.nysun.com/article/47363?page_no=1
.
|
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
27 Jan 2007 11:29:11 PM |
|
|
On Jan 27, 7:38 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it. And the new American plan, despite all the obstacles,
may have a chance to work.
And here's what a native Iraqi has to say:
By NIBRAS KAZIMI
January 25, 2007
[excerpt] The wider Sunni insurgency - the groups beyond Al Qaeda - is
being slowly, and surely, defeated. The average insurgent today feels
demoralized, disillusioned, and hunted. Those who have not been
captured yet are opting for a quieter life outside of Iraq. Al Qaeda
continues to grow for the time being as it cannibalizes the other
insurgent groups and absorbs their most radical and hardcore fringes
into its fold. The Baathists, who had been critical in spurring the
initial insurgency, are becoming less and less relevant, and are
drifting without a clear purpose following the hanging of their idol,
Saddam Hussein. Rounding out this changing landscape is that Al Qaeda
itself is getting a serious beating as the Americans improve in
intelligence gathering and partner with more reliable Iraqi forces.
In other words, battling the insurgency now essentially means battling
Al Qaeda. This is a major accomplishment.
Last October, my sources began telling me about rumblings among the
insurgent strategists suggesting that their murderous endeavor was
about to run out of steam. This sense of fatigue began registering
among mid-level insurgent commanders in late December, and it has
devolved to the rank and file since then. The insurgents have begun to
feel that the tide has turned against them. [end excerpt]
It's always nice to hear from a 'feel-good' propagandist for the Bush
failed policy. You know things are going really badly by the frequency
and rosiness of these planted stories. I wonder how many times he had
to bend over for a good *****-crackin' from Cheney and Bush. It's
amazing that violence can continue at an accelerated pace, with the
casualties piling up daily as usual, and yet sit on your neocon *****
and gorge yourself with this plate of gaseous pig food. Surreal...my
generation used to hear exactly the same ***** stories during the
worsening of the Viet Nam War...yep, we're takin' it to the enemy, and
we got 'em on the run...it's just a matter of time now, and all will
be well, and we'll be heroes!!!!
LOL! You ***** psycho!
Well, it was a native Iraqi who wrote the article. If you disagree (in
all your infinite wisdom), why don't you send him an email from your
computer in the Northwest United States and tell him why he (a native
Iraqi) is wrong?
.
|
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|
| User: "Perseid Rocks" |
|
| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 03:02:18 PM |
|
|
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Steven Douglas"
<dsteven@flashmail.com> Spat the Words
On Jan 27, 7:38 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of
the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it. And the new American plan, despite all the obstacles,
may have a chance to work.
And here's what a native Iraqi has to say:
By NIBRAS KAZIMI
January 25, 2007
[excerpt] The wider Sunni insurgency - the groups beyond Al Qaeda -
is
being slowly, and surely, defeated. The average insurgent today feels
demoralized, disillusioned, and hunted. Those who have not been
captured yet are opting for a quieter life outside of Iraq. Al Qaeda
continues to grow for the time being as it cannibalizes the other
insurgent groups and absorbs their most radical and hardcore fringes
into its fold. The Baathists, who had been critical in spurring the
initial insurgency, are becoming less and less relevant, and are
drifting without a clear purpose following the hanging of their idol,
Saddam Hussein. Rounding out this changing landscape is that Al Qaeda
itself is getting a serious beating as the Americans improve in
intelligence gathering and partner with more reliable Iraqi forces.
In other words, battling the insurgency now essentially means
battling
Al Qaeda. This is a major accomplishment.
Last October, my sources began telling me about rumblings among the
insurgent strategists suggesting that their murderous endeavor was
about to run out of steam. This sense of fatigue began registering
among mid-level insurgent commanders in late December, and it has
devolved to the rank and file since then. The insurgents have begun
to
feel that the tide has turned against them. [end excerpt]
It's always nice to hear from a 'feel-good' propagandist for the Bush
failed policy. You know things are going really badly by the frequency
and rosiness of these planted stories. I wonder how many times he had
to bend over for a good *****-crackin' from Cheney and Bush. It's
amazing that violence can continue at an accelerated pace, with the
casualties piling up daily as usual, and yet sit on your neocon *****
and gorge yourself with this plate of gaseous pig food. Surreal...my
generation used to hear exactly the same ***** stories during the
worsening of the Viet Nam War...yep, we're takin' it to the enemy, and
we got 'em on the run...it's just a matter of time now, and all will
be well, and we'll be heroes!!!!
LOL! You ***** psycho!
Well, it was a native Iraqi who wrote the article. If you disagree (in
all your infinite wisdom), why don't you send him an email from your
computer in the Northwest United States and tell him why he (a native
Iraqi) is wrong?
Chalabi was a native Iraqi. Chalabi was gung ho about US troops
invading Iraq and deposing Saddam. Why do you suppose that was
Stephen ? You like being used by every tin-pot loser out of power
partisan out there, yes ?
Oh sorry ! We invaded because there were WMD !! So sorry !
.
|
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| User: "Docrodile" |
|
| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 05:48:18 PM |
|
|
"Perseid Rocks" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns98C68ECED30FErrfkwrantispamattbic@216.196.97.136...
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Steven Douglas"
<dsteven@flashmail.com> Spat the Words
On Jan 27, 7:38 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of
the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it. And the new American plan, despite all the obstacles,
may have a chance to work.
And here's what a native Iraqi has to say:
By NIBRAS KAZIMI
January 25, 2007
Well, it was a native Iraqi who wrote the article. If you disagree (in
all your infinite wisdom), why don't you send him an email from your
computer in the Northwest United States and tell him why he (a native
Iraqi) is wrong?
Chalabi was a native Iraqi. Chalabi was gung ho about US troops
invading Iraq and deposing Saddam. Why do you suppose that was
Stephen ? You like being used by every tin-pot loser out of power
partisan out there, yes ?
Oh sorry ! We invaded because there were WMD !! So sorry !
Hey, Perseid, perhaps you remember a very interesting, mysterious incident
right after Saddam was captured. The memory of it is pretty good, but
possibly incomplete. It was in December 2003. I recall that two top
Kurdish leaders held a press conference in Baghdad and criticized the US
military command and Bush for not giving them due credit for helping find
Saddam, and there was also something about Saddam being found by them a
few weeks earlier, and secretly held, and then turned over to the US. And
it seems he ended up in the infamous spiderhole near the strange lil'
shack by the river...LOL...a place they had searched before without
success. Anyway, I recall the Kurds being quite upset about this
'betrayal' and then the story quickly disappeared...and I do mean,
vanished from the mainstream press within a week.
Do you have anything on this?
Docrodile
.
|
|
|
| User: "Perseid Rocks" |
|
| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
29 Jan 2007 02:39:04 AM |
|
|
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Docrodile"
<swampthing@hellsbayou.net> Spat the Words
"Perseid Rocks" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns98C68ECED30FErrfkwrantispamattbic@216.196.97.136...
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Steven Douglas"
<dsteven@flashmail.com> Spat the Words
On Jan 27, 7:38 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of
the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it. And the new American plan, despite all the obstacles,
may have a chance to work.
And here's what a native Iraqi has to say:
By NIBRAS KAZIMI
January 25, 2007
Well, it was a native Iraqi who wrote the article. If you disagree (in
all your infinite wisdom), why don't you send him an email from your
computer in the Northwest United States and tell him why he (a native
Iraqi) is wrong?
Chalabi was a native Iraqi. Chalabi was gung ho about US troops
invading Iraq and deposing Saddam. Why do you suppose that was
Stephen ? You like being used by every tin-pot loser out of power
partisan out there, yes ?
Oh sorry ! We invaded because there were WMD !! So sorry !
Hey, Perseid, perhaps you remember a very interesting, mysterious
incident
right after Saddam was captured. The memory of it is pretty good, but
possibly incomplete. It was in December 2003. I recall that two top
Kurdish leaders held a press conference in Baghdad and criticized the US
military command and Bush for not giving them due credit for helping
find
Saddam, and there was also something about Saddam being found by them a
few weeks earlier, and secretly held, and then turned over to the US.
And
it seems he ended up in the infamous spiderhole near the strange lil'
shack by the river...LOL...a place they had searched before without
success. Anyway, I recall the Kurds being quite upset about this
'betrayal' and then the story quickly disappeared...and I do mean,
vanished from the mainstream press within a week.
Do you have anything on this?
I don't, no. This is the first I've heard of this. I just did
a google search with the words 'saddam capture kurdish involvement'
and came up with several stories as you have described here, but
I don't know how we could verify this. The US gov't can't censor
foreign news outlets, so these articles are still floating around
out there.
Docrodile
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Dr. Bipolar" |
|
| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 02:21:58 AM |
|
|
On Jan 27, 9:29 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 7:38 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it. And the new American plan, despite all the obstacles,
may have a chance to work.
And here's what a native Iraqi has to say:
By NIBRAS KAZIMI
January 25, 2007
[excerpt] The wider Sunni insurgency - the groups beyond Al Qaeda - is
being slowly, and surely, defeated. The average insurgent today feels
demoralized, disillusioned, and hunted. Those who have not been
captured yet are opting for a quieter life outside of Iraq. Al Qaeda
continues to grow for the time being as it cannibalizes the other
insurgent groups and absorbs their most radical and hardcore fringes
into its fold. The Baathists, who had been critical in spurring the
initial insurgency, are becoming less and less relevant, and are
drifting without a clear purpose following the hanging of their idol,
Saddam Hussein. Rounding out this changing landscape is that Al Qaeda
itself is getting a serious beating as the Americans improve in
intelligence gathering and partner with more reliable Iraqi forces.
In other words, battling the insurgency now essentially means battling
Al Qaeda. This is a major accomplishment.
Last October, my sources began telling me about rumblings among the
insurgent strategists suggesting that their murderous endeavor was
about to run out of steam. This sense of fatigue began registering
among mid-level insurgent commanders in late December, and it has
devolved to the rank and file since then. The insurgents have begun to
feel that the tide has turned against them. [end excerpt]
It's always nice to hear from a 'feel-good' propagandist for the Bush
failed policy. You know things are going really badly by the frequency
and rosiness of these planted stories. I wonder how many times he had
to bend over for a good *****-crackin' from Cheney and Bush. It's
amazing that violence can continue at an accelerated pace, with the
casualties piling up daily as usual, and yet sit on your neocon *****
and gorge yourself with this plate of gaseous pig food. Surreal...my
generation used to hear exactly the same ***** stories during the
worsening of the Viet Nam War...yep, we're takin' it to the enemy, and
we got 'em on the run...it's just a matter of time now, and all will
be well, and we'll be heroes!!!!
LOL! You ***** psycho!Well, it was a native Iraqi who wrote the article. If you disagree (in
all your infinite wisdom), why don't you send him an email from your
computer in the Northwest United States and tell him why he (a native
Iraqi) is wrong?
You're extremely naive, Stevie. Or you're just a liar. You wouldn't
know what wisdom was if it bit you in your pimply *****. Am I to believe
you don't understand how the media is manipulated by politicians and
corporate leaders? Maybe you should study the news coming out of the
Scooter Libby perjury trial. I'll make it easy for ya -- it's right
there under the header," Former Cheney Aide Parts Curtain..."
If I sent your lil' Iraqi native (?) an email, I'd be asking him all
the things you wouldn't, like, "How did you come to write this
article, which flies in the face of all reality?" "What are your
political and private affiliations and friends?" And, "What is your
professional and personal background?"
After I got straight answers on those, if I could even get straight
answers from this propagandist, which is doubtful, this probable
operative that either works for the political powers in Iraq or the
US, or both, and works either in the intel community as an
'operative,' or in the corporate world as a publicist (and so on),
then maybe I could determine the truthful value of his piece he wrote.
Of course, it may be he's just a deluded idiot like you, Stevie. LOL!
But, I wouldn't really need any of that, Stevie...I've been around for
a long time and know how the media is used by political and corporate
powers. I worked in the straight mainstream media for awhile. If you
weren't so damned stupid, or a liar, you'd pass on silly planted
stories like the one you chose to support your surreal rosy
perspective on a bloody hellhole Bush created, and the mass suffering
going on in it.
But you're too unemotional to feel the people's pain as the tragic
result of bad leaders' decision-making, and too removed in your
pristine ivory tower to trot down the spiral staircase and open the
door and walk away from the tower and see the rest of the neighborhood
at ground level.
Too wrapped up in your psychosis, your fantasies, your insufferable
ego, Kid. You would've made a good loyal Nazi.
Dr. Bipolar
- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 02:16:54 PM |
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On Jan 28, 12:21 am, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:29 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 7:38 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it. And the new American plan, despite all the obstacles,
may have a chance to work.
And here's what a native Iraqi has to say:
By NIBRAS KAZIMI
January 25, 2007
[excerpt] The wider Sunni insurgency - the groups beyond Al Qaeda - is
being slowly, and surely, defeated. The average insurgent today feels
demoralized, disillusioned, and hunted. Those who have not been
captured yet are opting for a quieter life outside of Iraq. Al Qaeda
continues to grow for the time being as it cannibalizes the other
insurgent groups and absorbs their most radical and hardcore fringes
into its fold. The Baathists, who had been critical in spurring the
initial insurgency, are becoming less and less relevant, and are
drifting without a clear purpose following the hanging of their idol,
Saddam Hussein. Rounding out this changing landscape is that Al Qaeda
itself is getting a serious beating as the Americans improve in
intelligence gathering and partner with more reliable Iraqi forces.
In other words, battling the insurgency now essentially means battling
Al Qaeda. This is a major accomplishment.
Last October, my sources began telling me about rumblings among the
insurgent strategists suggesting that their murderous endeavor was
about to run out of steam. This sense of fatigue began registering
among mid-level insurgent commanders in late December, and it has
devolved to the rank and file since then. The insurgents have begun to
feel that the tide has turned against them. [end excerpt]
It's always nice to hear from a 'feel-good' propagandist for the Bush
failed policy. You know things are going really badly by the frequency
and rosiness of these planted stories. I wonder how many times he had
to bend over for a good *****-crackin' from Cheney and Bush. It's
amazing that violence can continue at an accelerated pace, with the
casualties piling up daily as usual, and yet sit on your neocon *****
and gorge yourself with this plate of gaseous pig food. Surreal...my
generation used to hear exactly the same ***** stories during the
worsening of the Viet Nam War...yep, we're takin' it to the enemy, and
we got 'em on the run...it's just a matter of time now, and all will
be well, and we'll be heroes!!!!
LOL! You ***** psycho!Well, it was a native Iraqi who wrote the article. If you disagree (in
all your infinite wisdom), why don't you send him an email from your
computer in the Northwest United States and tell him why he (a native
Iraqi) is wrong?
You're extremely naive, Stevie. Or you're just a liar. You wouldn't
know what wisdom was if it bit you in your pimply *****. Am I to believe
you don't understand how the media is manipulated by politicians and
corporate leaders? Maybe you should study the news coming out of the
Scooter Libby perjury trial. I'll make it easy for ya -- it's right
there under the header," Former Cheney Aide Parts Curtain..."
If I sent your lil' Iraqi native (?) an email, I'd be asking him all
the things you wouldn't, like, "How did you come to write this
article, which flies in the face of all reality?" "What are your
political and private affiliations and friends?" And, "What is your
professional and personal background?"
Sheesh, what an arrogant, pompous windbag you are.
Nibras Kazimi
Visiting Fellow
Hudson Institute, Washington, D.C. Headquarters
Biographical Highlights
Nibras Kazimi is a visiting scholar at the Hudson Institute. He also
writes a weekly column on the Middle East for the New York Sun.
Previously, he directed the Research Bureau of the Iraqi National
Congress in Washington DC and Baghdad, and was a pro-bono advisor for
the Higher National Commission for De-Ba'athification, which he helped
establish and staff.
Mr. Kazimi's research focuses on the growing threat of jihadism in the
Middle East, as well as prospects for democracy in the region. His
primary interest is the national security of Iraq, and how threats to
the nascent democracy there are enabled and coordinated by regional
Middle Eastern actors and factors. He has traveled widely, and
recently has been to Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan.
Mr. Kazimi is a graduate of Brandeis University, and he speaks Arabic
and English fluently.
http://www.hudson.org/learn/index.cfm?fuseaction=staff_bio&eid=Kazimi
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 05:39:30 PM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170015414.488237.74090@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:21 am, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:29 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 7:38 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering.
Middle Eastern actors and factors. He has traveled widely, and
recently has been to Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan.
Yeah, I bet he has travelled widely, and has the CIA or NSA or DIA
crawling up his stinking *****.
Mr. Kazimi is a graduate of Brandeis University, and he speaks Arabic
and English fluently.
http://www.hudson.org/learn/index.cfm?fuseaction=staff_bio&eid=Kazimi
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| User: "Perseid Rocks" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 03:04:57 PM |
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After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Steven Douglas"
<dsteven@flashmail.com> Spat the Words
You're extremely naive, Stevie. Or you're just a liar. You wouldn't
know what wisdom was if it bit you in your pimply *****. Am I to believe
you don't understand how the media is manipulated by politicians and
corporate leaders? Maybe you should study the news coming out of the
Scooter Libby perjury trial. I'll make it easy for ya -- it's right
there under the header," Former Cheney Aide Parts Curtain..."
If I sent your lil' Iraqi native (?) an email, I'd be asking him all
the things you wouldn't, like, "How did you come to write this
article, which flies in the face of all reality?" "What are your
political and private affiliations and friends?" And, "What is your
professional and personal background?"
Sheesh, what an arrogant, pompous windbag you are.
Nibras Kazimi
Visiting Fellow
Hudson Institute, Washington, D.C. Headquarters
Biographical Highlights
Nibras Kazimi is a visiting scholar at the Hudson Institute. He also
writes a weekly column on the Middle East for the New York Sun.
Previously, he directed the Research Bureau of the Iraqi National
Congress in Washington DC and Baghdad, and was a pro-bono advisor for
the Higher National Commission for De-Ba'athification, which he helped
establish and staff.
Mr. Kazimi's research focuses on the growing threat of jihadism in the
Middle East, as well as prospects for democracy in the region. His
primary interest is the national security of Iraq, and how threats to
the nascent democracy there are enabled and coordinated by regional
Middle Eastern actors and factors. He has traveled widely, and
recently has been to Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan.
Mr. Kazimi is a graduate of Brandeis University, and he speaks Arabic
and English fluently.
http://www.hudson.org/learn/index.cfm?fuseaction=staff_bio&eid=Kazimi
Yes indeed. All the Iraqi exiles wanted US troops to invade
Iraq and depose Saddam. You like being used by these out of
power political exiles, yes ?
Oh sorry ! We invaded because there were WMD !! So sorry !
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