http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007
A PAINFUL measure of just how much Iraq has changed in the
four years since I started coming here is contained in my
cellphone. Many numbers in the address book are for Iraqis
who have either fled the country or been killed. One of the
first Sunni politicians: gunned down. A Shiite baker: missing.
A Sunni family: moved to Syria.
I first came to Iraq in April 2003, at the end of the looting
several weeks after the American invasion. In all, I have spent
22 months here, time enough for the place, its people and their
ever-evolving tragedy to fix itself firmly in my heart.
Now, as I am leaving Iraq, a new American plan is unfolding in
the capital. It feels as if we have come back to the beginning.
Boots are on the ground again. Boxy Humvees move in the streets.
Baghdad fell in 2003 and we are still trying to pick it back up.
But Iraq is a different country now.
The moderates are mostly gone. My phone includes at least a
dozen entries for middle-class families who have given up and
moved away. They were supposed to build democracy here. Instead
they work odd jobs in Syria and Jordan. Even the moderate
political leaders have left. I have three numbers for Adnan
Pachachi, the distinguished Iraqi statesman; none have Iraqi
country codes.
Neighborhoods I used to visit a year ago with my armed guards
and my black abaya are off limits. Most were Sunni and had been
merely dangerous. Now they are dead. A neighborhood that used
to be Baghdad’s Upper East Side has the dilapidated, broken
feel of a city just hit by a hurricane.
The Iraqi government and the political process, which seemed
to have great promise a year ago, have soured. Deeply damaged
from years of abuse under Saddam Hussein, the Shiites who run
the government have themselves turned into abusers.
Never having covered a civil war before, I learned about it
together with my Iraqi friends. It is a bit like watching a
slow-motion train wreck. Broken bodies fly past. Faces freeze
in one’s memory in the moments before impact. Passengers grab
handles and doorframes that simply tear off or uselessly
collapse.
I learned how much violence changes people, and how trust is
chipped away, leaving society a thin layer of moth-eaten fabric
that tears easily. It has unraveled so quickly. A year ago, my
interviews were peppered with phrases like “Iraqis are all
brothers.” The subjects would get angry when you asked their
sect. Now some of them introduce themselves that way.
I met Raad Jassim, a 38-year-old Shiite refugee, in a largely
empty house, recently owned by Sunnis, where he now lives in
western Baghdad. He moved there in the fall, after Sunni
militants killed his brother and his nephew and confiscated
his large chicken farm north of Baghdad. He had lived with
Sunnis his whole life, but after what happened, a hatred
spread through him like a disease.
“The word Sunni, it hurts me,” he said, sitting on the floor
in a bare room, his 7-year-old boy on his lap. “All that I
have lost came from this word. I try to avoid mixing with
them.”
“A volcano of revenge” has built up inside him, he said.
“I want to rip them up with my teeth.”
In another measure of just how much things have changed,
Mr. Jassim’s Shiite neighborhood is relatively safe. The area
is now largely free of Sunnis, after Shiite militias swept it
last year, and it runs smoothly on a complex network of
relationships among the local militias, the police and a
powerful local council. His street is dotted with fruit
stands. Boys in uniforms roughhouse. Men sit in teahouses
sipping from tiny glass cups.
Just to the south, the Sunni neighborhood of Dawoodi is ghostly
at almost any time of day. Wide boulevards trimmed with palm
trees used to connect luxury homes. Now giant piles of trash
go uncollected in the median.
A serious problem is dead bodies. They began to appear several
times a week last summer on the railroad tracks that run through
the neighborhood. But when residents call the police to pick up
the bodies, they do not come. The police are Shiite and afraid
of the area.
“Entering a Sunni area for them is a risk,” said Yasir, a
40-year-old Sunni whose house is close to the dumping ground.
A few weeks ago, a woman’s body appeared. It was raining. Yasir
said he covered her with blankets and called the police. A day
later the police arrived. They peeked under the waterlogged
blanket and drove away. It was another day before they collected
the body. They took it at night, turning off their headlights
and inching toward the area like thieves.
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering. A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make
up 80 percent of the population, will tell you that in spite of
all the mistakes the Americans have made here, the single act
of removing Saddam Hussein was worth it. And the new American
plan, despite all the obstacles, may have a chance to work.
With an Iraqi colleague, I have been studying a neighborhood
in northern Baghdad that has become a dumping ground for bodies.
There, after American troops conducted sweeps, the number of
corpses dropped by a third in September. The new plan is built
around that kind of tactic. But the odds are stacked against
the corps of bright young officers charged with making the
plan work, particularly because their Iraqi partner — the
government of Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki — seems to
be on an entirely different page. When American officials were
debating whether to send more troops in December, I went to see
an Iraqi government official. The prospect of more troops
infuriated him. More Americans would simply prolong the war,
he said.
“If you don’t allow the minority to lose, you will carry on
forever,” he said.
The remarks struck me as a powerful insight into the Shiites’
thinking. Abused under Mr. Hussein, they still act like an
oppressed class. That means Iraqis are looking into a future
of war, at least in the near term. As one young Shiite in
Sadr City said to me: “This just has to burn itself out.”
Hazim al-Aaraji, a disciple of the renegade Shiite cleric
Moktada al-Sadr, understands this. A cleric himself, he is
looking for foot soldiers for the war. On a warm October
afternoon, as he bustled around his mosque in western Baghdad,
he said the ideal disciples would have “an empty mind,” and
a weapon. Surprised by the word choice, an Iraqi friend I was
with stopped him, to clarify his intent. Once again, he used
the word “empty.”
The frank remark spoke of a new power balance, in which
radicals rule and moderates have no voice. For many families
I have become attached to here, the country is no longer
recognizable.
I met Haifa and her husband, Hassan, both teachers, in a
driveway in western Baghdad. They had just found the body of
their 12-year-old son, who had been kidnapped and brutally
killed, and were frantic with grief. They finally decided to
leave Iraq, but its violence tormented them to the end. They
paid a man to drive them to Jordan, but he was working with
Sunni militants in western Iraq, and pointed out Hassan, a
Shiite, to a Sunni gang that stopped the car. Over the next
several hours, Haifa waved a tiny Koran at men in masks,
pleading for her husband’s release, her two remaining children
in tow.
Hassan, meanwhile, knelt in a small room, his hands behind his
back. His captors shot a man next to him in the neck. Haifa,
a Sunni, eventually prevailed on them to let him go. The family
returned to Baghdad, then borrowed money to fly to Jordan.
Now they live there, in a tiny basement apartment without
windows in a white stone housing project on the side of a hill.
Like many Iraqis there, they live in hiding. Residency permits
cost $100,000, far beyond their means. Hassan cannot work, nor
even risk leaving the house during the day for fear the Jordanian
police will deport him.
He tries not to talk to people, afraid someone will recognize
his Iraqi accent. He doesn’t bargain in the vegetable market.
He accepts mean remarks by Jordanian cabdrivers wordlessly.
Most of all, he wants to go home. “But death is waiting for us
there,” he tells me. “We are homeless. Please help us.”
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
27 Jan 2007 08:10:30 PM |
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On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007
<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it. And the new American plan, despite all the obstacles,
may have a chance to work.
And here's what a native Iraqi has to say:
By NIBRAS KAZIMI
January 25, 2007
[excerpt] The wider Sunni insurgency - the groups beyond Al Qaeda - is
being slowly, and surely, defeated. The average insurgent today feels
demoralized, disillusioned, and hunted. Those who have not been
captured yet are opting for a quieter life outside of Iraq. Al Qaeda
continues to grow for the time being as it cannibalizes the other
insurgent groups and absorbs their most radical and hardcore fringes
into its fold. The Baathists, who had been critical in spurring the
initial insurgency, are becoming less and less relevant, and are
drifting without a clear purpose following the hanging of their idol,
Saddam Hussein. Rounding out this changing landscape is that Al Qaeda
itself is getting a serious beating as the Americans improve in
intelligence gathering and partner with more reliable Iraqi forces.
In other words, battling the insurgency now essentially means battling
Al Qaeda. This is a major accomplishment.
Last October, my sources began telling me about rumblings among the
insurgent strategists suggesting that their murderous endeavor was
about to run out of steam. This sense of fatigue began registering
among mid-level insurgent commanders in late December, and it has
devolved to the rank and file since then. The insurgents have begun to
feel that the tide has turned against them. [end excerpt]
http://www.nysun.com/article/47363?page_no=1
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| User: "Perseid Rocks" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 02:57:49 PM |
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After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Steven Douglas"
<dsteven@flashmail.com> Spat the Words
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007
<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it. And the new American plan, despite all the obstacles,
may have a chance to work.
And here's what a native Iraqi has to say:
Congratulations. Bush has just replaced one despotic abuser
of power by another group that will do exactly the same thing.
By NIBRAS KAZIMI
January 25, 2007
[excerpt] The wider Sunni insurgency - the groups beyond Al Qaeda - is
being slowly, and surely, defeated. The average insurgent today feels
demoralized, disillusioned, and hunted. Those who have not been
captured yet are opting for a quieter life outside of Iraq. Al Qaeda
continues to grow for the time being as it cannibalizes the other
insurgent groups and absorbs their most radical and hardcore fringes
into its fold. The Baathists, who had been critical in spurring the
initial insurgency, are becoming less and less relevant, and are
drifting without a clear purpose following the hanging of their idol,
Saddam Hussein. Rounding out this changing landscape is that Al Qaeda
itself is getting a serious beating as the Americans improve in
intelligence gathering and partner with more reliable Iraqi forces.
In other words, battling the insurgency now essentially means battling
Al Qaeda. This is a major accomplishment.
Last October, my sources began telling me about rumblings among the
insurgent strategists suggesting that their murderous endeavor was
about to run out of steam. This sense of fatigue began registering
among mid-level insurgent commanders in late December, and it has
devolved to the rank and file since then. The insurgents have begun to
feel that the tide has turned against them. [end excerpt]
http://www.nysun.com/article/47363?page_no=1
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| User: "Dr. Bipolar" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
27 Jan 2007 08:46:07 PM |
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On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000 double
amputees...tens of thousands of dead civilians, children and
babies...infrastructure shattered, sporadic electrical and water
service
for nearly 4 years, hundreds dead every week, hundreds more injured
and
crippled every week, weak floundering government, civil war, Iran
moves in
(reportedly) with agents and special forces, an American
administration
sunk to the bottom, the American people bitterly divided, huge amounts
of
money for war contracts wasted (and you didn't even have to pay extra
taxes!!), money pulled ot of social programs for the poor, disabled,
homeless; Halliburton's no-bid windfall-profit marathon contracts,
increased
terrorist attacks, a widening of the war into Somalia (with heavy
civilian
casualties), many thousands more troops moving in, naval forces
heading
for the Gulf...why, heavens to Betsy! Removing a tyrant that didn't
threaten the US's security, and a tyrant the Iraqis had the
responsibility
to remove if they wanted freedom so badly, well, gettin' Saddam out
sure as hell costs a lot. One tinhorn dictator and all this bloody
fucking
cost. And you know what, saphead? You didn't have to bloody a finger
to do
it, pay any extra taxes to support it, and neither did the leaders you
support and their families or
friends, and neither did the great majority of Americans have to
sacrifice a thing to get the deed done. *****, even the hanging was an
ugly insane hateful affair by that wonderful US-supported government,
that bastion of civilization amidst the barbarians.
Yeah, it was sure fucking *worth* it...that ol' righteous-*****
ideological-wallow of a war sure feels good, don't it, fella? Nice
and
cozy here, ain't it, sittin' on your ergonomic chair, playin' with the
expensive binary machine, scratching your hairy
nutz...and kissin' the Bible.
Sheeeeesh....you ***** psycho.
Docrodile
And the new American plan, despite all the obstacles,
may have a chance to work.
And here's what a native Iraqi has to say:
By NIBRAS KAZIMI
January 25, 2007
[excerpt] The wider Sunni insurgency - the groups beyond Al Qaeda - is
being slowly, and surely, defeated. The average insurgent today feels
demoralized, disillusioned, and hunted. Those who have not been
captured yet are opting for a quieter life outside of Iraq. Al Qaeda
continues to grow for the time being as it cannibalizes the other
insurgent groups and absorbs their most radical and hardcore fringes
into its fold. The Baathists, who had been critical in spurring the
initial insurgency, are becoming less and less relevant, and are
drifting without a clear purpose following the hanging of their idol,
Saddam Hussein. Rounding out this changing landscape is that Al Qaeda
itself is getting a serious beating as the Americans improve in
intelligence gathering and partner with more reliable Iraqi forces.
In other words, battling the insurgency now essentially means battling
Al Qaeda. This is a major accomplishment.
Last October, my sources began telling me about rumblings among the
insurgent strategists suggesting that their murderous endeavor was
about to run out of steam. This sense of fatigue began registering
among mid-level insurgent commanders in late December, and it has
devolved to the rank and file since then. The insurgents have begun to
feel that the tide has turned against them. [end excerpt]
http://www.nysun.com/article/47363?page_no=1
.
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| User: "Perseid Rocks" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 02:56:39 PM |
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After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ray52@excite.com>
Spat the Words
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000 double
amputees...
And most of those American casualties are National Guard with
good jobs here at home. This is Bush's version of 'job creation'
and it should help someone like Stephen who appears to be seeking
a permanent position. More dead Americans means more job openings
for Stephen.
.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 05:32:28 PM |
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"Perseid Rocks" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns98C68DD90E56Brrfkwrantispamattbic@216.196.97.136...
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Dr. Bipolar"
<g-ray52@excite.com>
Spat the Words
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000 double
amputees...
And most of those American casualties are National Guard with
good jobs here at home. This is Bush's version of 'job creation'
and it should help someone like Stephen who appears to be seeking
a permanent position. More dead Americans means more job openings
for Stephen.
LOL! (Actually, not funny...but, ironic and the way you put it
sardonically.)
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 07:16:22 PM |
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On Jan 28, 12:56 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com>
Spat the Words
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000 double
amputees...
And most of those American casualties are National Guard with
good jobs here at home.
Most are National Guard? Do you have a cite for that?
This is Bush's version of 'job creation' and it should help someone
like Stephen who appears to be seeking a permanent position.
That's the last thing I want. What gave you that idea?
More dead Americans means more job openings for Stephen.
I don't need anyone's job openings, you detestable creep.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
29 Jan 2007 09:49:37 AM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170033382.798033.296000@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:56 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Dr. Bipolar"
<g-ra...@excite.com>
Spat the Words
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of
the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000 double
amputees...
And most of those American casualties are National Guard with
good jobs here at home.
Most are National Guard? Do you have a cite for that?
This is Bush's version of 'job creation' and it should help someone
like Stephen who appears to be seeking a permanent position.
That's the last thing I want. What gave you that idea?
More dead Americans means more job openings for Stephen.
I don't need anyone's job openings, you detestable creep.
But, Stevie, you said you had dead-end jobs...maybe you can get some
open-ended ones provided by the graves of the soldiers of the war you
avidly support.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
29 Jan 2007 09:07:13 PM |
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On Jan 29, 7:49 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170033382.798033.296000@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:56 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Dr. Bipolar"
<g-ra...@excite.com>
Spat the Words
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of
the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000 double
amputees...
And most of those American casualties are National Guard with
good jobs here at home.
Most are National Guard? Do you have a cite for that?
This is Bush's version of 'job creation' and it should help someone
like Stephen who appears to be seeking a permanent position.
That's the last thing I want. What gave you that idea?
More dead Americans means more job openings for Stephen.
I don't need anyone's job openings, you detestable creep.
But, Stevie, you said you had dead-end jobs...
Yes, I was trying to go along with your stupid joke. Obviously you're
taking it seriously, joker.
.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
29 Jan 2007 10:44:26 PM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170126433.460514.206900@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 29, 7:49 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170033382.798033.296000@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:56 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Dr. Bipolar"
<g-ra...@excite.com>
Spat the Words
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
Yes, I was trying to go along with your stupid joke. Obviously you're
taking it seriously, joker.
You're the ***** joker who's ten cards short of a ***** deck, JUNIOR !
You smirking republican reptilian *****.
.
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| User: "mukyuk" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
01 Feb 2007 10:24:04 AM |
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"Docrodile" <swampthing@hellsbayou.net> wrote in message
news:epmife$g05$2@aioe.org...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170126433.460514.206900@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 29, 7:49 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170033382.798033.296000@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:56 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Dr. Bipolar"
<g-ra...@excite.com>
Spat the Words
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
Yes, I was trying to go along with your stupid joke. Obviously you're
taking it seriously, joker.
You're the ***** joker who's ten cards short of a ***** deck, JUNIOR !
You smirking republican reptilian *****.
Steven is not an *****, he is the actual ***** that comes out of one!!!
.
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| User: "Brian" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
30 Jan 2007 06:21:33 AM |
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* Docrodile:
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170126433.460514.206900@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 29, 7:49 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170033382.798033.296000@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:56 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Dr. Bipolar"
<g-ra...@excite.com>
Spat the Words
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> >>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
Yes, I was trying to go along with your stupid joke. Obviously you're
taking it seriously, joker.
You're the ***** joker who's ten cards short of a ***** deck, JUNIOR !
You smirking republican reptilian *****.
Wow, someone woke up on the wrong side of the padded cell...
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
27 Jan 2007 11:26:37 PM |
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On Jan 27, 6:46 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000 double
amputees...tens of thousands of dead civilians, children and
babies...infrastructure shattered, sporadic electrical and water
service
for nearly 4 years, hundreds dead every week, hundreds more injured
and
crippled every week, weak floundering government, civil war, Iran
moves in
(reportedly) with agents and special forces, an American
administration
sunk to the bottom, the American people bitterly divided, huge amounts
of
money for war contracts wasted (and you didn't even have to pay extra
taxes!!), money pulled ot of social programs for the poor, disabled,
homeless; Halliburton's no-bid windfall-profit marathon contracts,
increased
terrorist attacks, a widening of the war into Somalia (with heavy
civilian
casualties), many thousands more troops moving in, naval forces
heading
for the Gulf...why, heavens to Betsy! Removing a tyrant that didn't
threaten the US's security, and a tyrant the Iraqis had the
responsibility
to remove if they wanted freedom so badly, well, gettin' Saddam out
sure as hell costs a lot. One tinhorn dictator and all this bloody
fucking
cost. And you know what, saphead? You didn't have to bloody a finger
to do
it, pay any extra taxes to support it, and neither did the leaders you
support and their families or
friends, and neither did the great majority of Americans have to
sacrifice a thing to get the deed done. *****, even the hanging was an
ugly insane hateful affair by that wonderful US-supported government,
that bastion of civilization amidst the barbarians.
Yeah, it was sure fucking *worth* it...that ol' righteous-*****
ideological-wallow of a war sure feels good, don't it, fella? Nice
and
cozy here, ain't it, sittin' on your ergonomic chair, playin' with the
expensive binary machine, scratching your hairy
nutz...and kissin' the Bible.
Sheeeeesh....you ***** psycho.
Oh, maybe you didn't notice the point was that a great many Shiites
and Kurds say it was worth it.
.
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| User: "Dr. Bipolar" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 02:57:13 AM |
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On Jan 27, 9:26 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:46 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000 double
amputees...tens of thousands of dead civilians, children and
babies...infrastructure shattered, sporadic electrical and water
service
for nearly 4 years, hundreds dead every week, hundreds more injured
and
crippled every week, weak floundering government, civil war, Iran
moves in
(reportedly) with agents and special forces, an American
administration
sunk to the bottom, the American people bitterly divided, huge amounts
of
money for war contracts wasted (and you didn't even have to pay extra
taxes!!), money pulled ot of social programs for the poor, disabled,
homeless; Halliburton's no-bid windfall-profit marathon contracts,
increased
terrorist attacks, a widening of the war into Somalia (with heavy
civilian
casualties), many thousands more troops moving in, naval forces
heading
for the Gulf...why, heavens to Betsy! Removing a tyrant that didn't
threaten the US's security, and a tyrant the Iraqis had the
responsibility
to remove if they wanted freedom so badly, well, gettin' Saddam out
sure as hell costs a lot. One tinhorn dictator and all this bloody
fucking
cost. And you know what, saphead? You didn't have to bloody a finger
to do
it, pay any extra taxes to support it, and neither did the leaders you
support and their families or
friends, and neither did the great majority of Americans have to
sacrifice a thing to get the deed done. *****, even the hanging was an
ugly insane hateful affair by that wonderful US-supported government,
that bastion of civilization amidst the barbarians.
Yeah, it was sure fucking *worth* it...that ol' righteous-*****
ideological-wallow of a war sure feels good, don't it, fella? Nice
and
cozy here, ain't it, sittin' on your ergonomic chair, playin' with the
expensive binary machine, scratching your hairy
nutz...and kissin' the Bible.
Sheeeeesh....you ***** psycho.Oh, maybe you didn't notice the point was that a great many Shiites
and Kurds say it was worth it.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
Oh, yeah, Stevie the majority of Iraqis think it was just great we
sacrificed our lives to throw off a dictator that they were unable to
muster the courage, organization, and firepower to depose violently.
Imagine how many other peoples under tyrants we could have rumbled
into their nations and liberated them from those awful leaders,
too!!! Ford could've stormed into Cambodia and liberated those people
from Pol Pot (much worse than Saddam!), but he chose not to....let's
see, what was it Ford said shortly before his death? Something about
not starting wars with adversaries unless our security is directly
threatened. Yeah, that was it. You and your neocon monkeys miss the
whole point that we have a military -- and that is to defend ourselves
and our vital interests from an attack or a direct threat posed to us.
Neither was the case for invading Iraq, Stevie. And, sure, I'd bet the
Cambodians would've kissed our feet for throwing off Pol Pot -- but,
if they hated the tyranny and suffered so badly, it is their
responsibility to rise up and oppose it at whatever cost to
themselves. You want our young men and women to be used up and put
into graves for an ideological militaristic crusade against the evils
of human leadership globally, and while that is quite noble on the
surface, down below the surface rests the reality -- our military
isn't to be used for your or anyone's ideological satisfaction, glory,
irrational fears, moral superiority, etc. It is used only for the
purposes that your hero, Ford, specifically said. And that is the
mental sickness of you and your neocon idealists, Stevie -- you think
little of the human cost in the fanatical self-centered drive to
realize your ideological objectives. You're a sick deluded man,
Stevie, and you'll never get any better following the same kind of
psychotic idealism (at the leadership level), or disassociation, that
your personality encompasses. You get a lot of people killed with
leaders that share the psychosis and personality extremes you exhibit
here daily. So many dead to satisfy the Iraqis and Kurds for a mission
they themselves should've been on, and could've been on -- not the US,
or any foreign interventionalist power's mission to relieve them of
tyranny. Bush's misuse of the military for egotistical purposes, or
for purely ideological purposes, without a direct threat by a foreign
leader to our security is a criminal act, irresponsbile, reckless, and
just plain stupid and crazy. Hey, stupid, let's rumble into North
Korea and liberate those people -- I'm SURE they'd be pleased for us
to do so, and I'm SURE I'd find you supporting it...while sitting
pretty and pristine here, untouched by any threat or hardship of it.
You cowardly little psycho. You sniveling little *****.
Dr. Bipolar ;)~
.
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| User: "Brian" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
29 Jan 2007 02:40:09 PM |
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* Dr. Bipolar:
Oh, yeah, Stevie the majority of Iraqis think it was just great we
sacrificed our lives to throw off a dictator that they were unable to
muster the courage, organization, and firepower to depose violently.
Imagine how many other peoples under tyrants we could have rumbled
into their nations and liberated them from those awful leaders,
too!!! Ford could've stormed into Cambodia and liberated those people
from Pol Pot (much worse than Saddam!), but he chose not to....let's
see, what was it Ford said shortly before his death? Something about
not starting wars with adversaries unless our security is directly
threatened. Yeah, that was it. You and your neocon monkeys miss the
whole point that we have a military -- and that is to defend ourselves
and our vital interests from an attack or a direct threat posed to us.
Neither was the case for invading Iraq, Stevie. And, sure, I'd bet the
Cambodians would've kissed our feet for throwing off Pol Pot -- but,
if they hated the tyranny and suffered so badly, it is their
responsibility to rise up and oppose it at whatever cost to
themselves. You want our young men and women to be used up and put
into graves for an ideological militaristic crusade against the evils
of human leadership globally, and while that is quite noble on the
surface, down below the surface rests the reality -- our military
isn't to be used for your or anyone's ideological satisfaction, glory,
irrational fears, moral superiority, etc. It is used only for the
purposes that your hero, Ford, specifically said. And that is the
mental sickness of you and your neocon idealists, Stevie -- you think
little of the human cost in the fanatical self-centered drive to
realize your ideological objectives. You're a sick deluded man,
Stevie, and you'll never get any better following the same kind of
psychotic idealism (at the leadership level), or disassociation, that
your personality encompasses. You get a lot of people killed with
leaders that share the psychosis and personality extremes you exhibit
here daily. So many dead to satisfy the Iraqis and Kurds for a mission
they themselves should've been on, and could've been on -- not the US,
or any foreign interventionalist power's mission to relieve them of
tyranny. Bush's misuse of the military for egotistical purposes, or
for purely ideological purposes, without a direct threat by a foreign
leader to our security is a criminal act, irresponsbile, reckless, and
just plain stupid and crazy. Hey, stupid, let's rumble into North
Korea and liberate those people -- I'm SURE they'd be pleased for us
to do so, and I'm SURE I'd find you supporting it...while sitting
pretty and pristine here, untouched by any threat or hardship of it.
You cowardly little psycho. You sniveling little *****.
Dr. Bipolar ;)~
So according to you, ignore it and it will go away?
.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
29 Jan 2007 10:38:14 PM |
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"Brian" <my@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:12rsmt9tj5m3e71@corp.supernews.com...
* Dr. Bipolar:
Oh, yeah, Stevie the majority of Iraqis think it was just great we
sacrificed our lives to throw off a dictator that they were unable to
muster the courage, organization, and firepower to depose violently.
Imagine how many other peoples under tyrants we could have rumbled into
their nations and liberated them from those awful leaders, too!!! Ford
could've stormed into Cambodia and liberated those people from Pol Pot
(much worse than Saddam!), but he chose not to....let's see, what was
it Ford said shortly before his death? Something about not starting
wars with adversaries unless our security is directly threatened.
Yeah, that was it. You and your neocon monkeys miss the whole point
that we have a military -- and that is to defend ourselves and our
vital interests from an attack or a direct threat posed to us. Neither
was the case for invading Iraq, Stevie. And, sure, I'd bet the
Cambodians would've kissed our feet for throwing off Pol Pot -- but, if
they hated the tyranny and suffered so badly, it is their
responsibility to rise up and oppose it at whatever cost to themselves.
You want our young men and women to be used up and put into graves for
an ideological militaristic crusade against the evils of human
leadership globally, and while that is quite noble on the surface, down
below the surface rests the reality -- our military isn't to be used
for your or anyone's ideological satisfaction, glory, irrational fears,
moral superiority, etc. It is used only for the purposes that your
hero, Ford, specifically said. And that is the mental sickness of you
and your neocon idealists, Stevie -- you think little of the human cost
in the fanatical self-centered drive to realize your ideological
objectives. You're a sick deluded man, Stevie, and you'll never get any
better following the same kind of psychotic idealism (at the leadership
level), or disassociation, that your personality encompasses. You get a
lot of people killed with leaders that share the psychosis and
personality extremes you exhibit here daily. So many dead to satisfy
the Iraqis and Kurds for a mission they themselves should've been on,
and could've been on -- not the US, or any foreign interventionalist
power's mission to relieve them of tyranny. Bush's misuse of the
military for egotistical purposes, or for purely ideological purposes,
without a direct threat by a foreign leader to our security is a
criminal act, irresponsbile, reckless, and just plain stupid and crazy.
Hey, stupid, let's rumble into North Korea and liberate those people --
I'm SURE they'd be pleased for us to do so, and I'm SURE I'd find you
supporting it...while sitting pretty and pristine here, untouched by
any threat or hardship of it. You cowardly little psycho. You sniveling
little *****.
Dr. Bipolar ;)~
So according to you, ignore it and it will go away?
NO, BY ALL MEANS, *****, YOU, TOO...JOIN STEVEN IN THE IDEOLOGICAL
CAMPAIGN TO RID THE WORLD OF ALL DICTATORS ... SEE MY POST TO STEVIE THE
***** AND YOU'VE GOT YOUR REPLY TO YOUR LITTLE
SNIPPET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LET'S GET WORLD WAR THREE GOING, FUCKHEAD'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.
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| User: "Brian" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
30 Jan 2007 06:15:46 AM |
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* Docrodile:
"Brian" <my@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:12rsmt9tj5m3e71@corp.supernews.com...
* Dr. Bipolar:
Oh, yeah, Stevie the majority of Iraqis think it was just great we
sacrificed our lives to throw off a dictator that they were unable to
muster the courage, organization, and firepower to depose violently.
Imagine how many other peoples under tyrants we could have rumbled
into their nations and liberated them from those awful leaders,
too!!! Ford could've stormed into Cambodia and liberated those
people from Pol Pot (much worse than Saddam!), but he chose not
to....let's see, what was it Ford said shortly before his death?
Something about not starting wars with adversaries unless our
security is directly threatened. Yeah, that was it. You and your
neocon monkeys miss the whole point that we have a military -- and
that is to defend ourselves and our vital interests from an attack or
a direct threat posed to us. Neither was the case for invading Iraq,
Stevie. And, sure, I'd bet the Cambodians would've kissed our feet
for throwing off Pol Pot -- but, if they hated the tyranny and
suffered so badly, it is their responsibility to rise up and oppose
it at whatever cost to themselves. You want our young men and women
to be used up and put into graves for an ideological militaristic
crusade against the evils of human leadership globally, and while
that is quite noble on the surface, down below the surface rests the
reality -- our military isn't to be used for your or anyone's
ideological satisfaction, glory, irrational fears, moral superiority,
etc. It is used only for the purposes that your hero, Ford,
specifically said. And that is the mental sickness of you and your
neocon idealists, Stevie -- you think little of the human cost in the
fanatical self-centered drive to realize your ideological objectives.
You're a sick deluded man, Stevie, and you'll never get any better
following the same kind of psychotic idealism (at the leadership
level), or disassociation, that your personality encompasses. You get
a lot of people killed with leaders that share the psychosis and
personality extremes you exhibit here daily. So many dead to satisfy
the Iraqis and Kurds for a mission they themselves should've been on,
and could've been on -- not the US, or any foreign interventionalist
power's mission to relieve them of tyranny. Bush's misuse of the
military for egotistical purposes, or for purely ideological
purposes, without a direct threat by a foreign leader to our security
is a criminal act, irresponsbile, reckless, and just plain stupid and
crazy. Hey, stupid, let's rumble into North Korea and liberate those
people -- I'm SURE they'd be pleased for us to do so, and I'm SURE
I'd find you supporting it...while sitting pretty and pristine here,
untouched by any threat or hardship of it. You cowardly little
psycho. You sniveling little *****.
Dr. Bipolar ;)~
So according to you, ignore it and it will go away?
NO, BY ALL MEANS, *****, YOU, TOO...JOIN STEVEN IN THE IDEOLOGICAL
CAMPAIGN TO RID THE WORLD OF ALL DICTATORS ... SEE MY POST TO STEVIE THE
***** AND YOU'VE GOT YOUR REPLY TO YOUR LITTLE
SNIPPET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LET'S GET WORLD WAR THREE GOING, FUCKHEAD'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A simple no would suffice asshat.
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 02:19:20 PM |
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On Jan 28, 12:57 am, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:26 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:46 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000 double
amputees...tens of thousands of dead civilians, children and
babies...infrastructure shattered, sporadic electrical and water
service
for nearly 4 years, hundreds dead every week, hundreds more injured
and
crippled every week, weak floundering government, civil war, Iran
moves in
(reportedly) with agents and special forces, an American
administration
sunk to the bottom, the American people bitterly divided, huge amounts
of
money for war contracts wasted (and you didn't even have to pay extra
taxes!!), money pulled ot of social programs for the poor, disabled,
homeless; Halliburton's no-bid windfall-profit marathon contracts,
increased
terrorist attacks, a widening of the war into Somalia (with heavy
civilian
casualties), many thousands more troops moving in, naval forces
heading
for the Gulf...why, heavens to Betsy! Removing a tyrant that didn't
threaten the US's security, and a tyrant the Iraqis had the
responsibility
to remove if they wanted freedom so badly, well, gettin' Saddam out
sure as hell costs a lot. One tinhorn dictator and all this bloody
fucking
cost. And you know what, saphead? You didn't have to bloody a finger
to do
it, pay any extra taxes to support it, and neither did the leaders you
support and their families or
friends, and neither did the great majority of Americans have to
sacrifice a thing to get the deed done. *****, even the hanging was an
ugly insane hateful affair by that wonderful US-supported government,
that bastion of civilization amidst the barbarians.
Yeah, it was sure fucking *worth* it...that ol' righteous-*****
ideological-wallow of a war sure feels good, don't it, fella? Nice
and
cozy here, ain't it, sittin' on your ergonomic chair, playin' with the
expensive binary machine, scratching your hairy
nutz...and kissin' the Bible.
Sheeeeesh....you ***** psycho.
Oh, maybe you didn't notice the point was that a great many Shiites
and Kurds say it was worth it.
Oh, yeah, Stevie the majority of Iraqis think it was just great we
sacrificed our lives to throw off a dictator that they were unable to
muster the courage, organization, and firepower to depose violently.
And maybe you didn't notice that the words you're currently referring
to were taken right out of Randolph's article.
.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 05:31:18 PM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170015560.206193.148400@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:57 am, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:26 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:46 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent
of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam
Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000 double
amputees...tens of thousands of dead civilians, children and
babies...infrastructure shattered, sporadic electrical and water
service
for nearly 4 years, hundreds dead every week, hundreds more injured
and
crippled every week, weak floundering government, civil war, Iran
moves in
(reportedly) with agents and special forces, an American
administration
sunk to the bottom, the American people bitterly divided, huge
amounts
of
money for war contracts wasted (and you didn't even have to pay
extra
taxes!!), money pulled ot of social programs for the poor,
disabled,
homeless; Halliburton's no-bid windfall-profit marathon contracts,
increased
terrorist attacks, a widening of the war into Somalia (with heavy
civilian
casualties), many thousands more troops moving in, naval forces
heading
for the Gulf...why, heavens to Betsy! Removing a tyrant that didn't
threaten the US's security, and a tyrant the Iraqis had the
responsibility
to remove if they wanted freedom so badly, well, gettin' Saddam out
sure as hell costs a lot. One tinhorn dictator and all this bloody
fucking
cost. And you know what, saphead? You didn't have to bloody a
finger
to do
it, pay any extra taxes to support it, and neither did the leaders
you
support and their families or
friends, and neither did the great majority of Americans have to
sacrifice a thing to get the deed done. *****, even the hanging was
an
ugly insane hateful affair by that wonderful US-supported
government,
that bastion of civilization amidst the barbarians.
Yeah, it was sure fucking *worth* it...that ol' righteous-*****
ideological-wallow of a war sure feels good, don't it, fella? Nice
and
cozy here, ain't it, sittin' on your ergonomic chair, playin' with
the
expensive binary machine, scratching your hairy
nutz...and kissin' the Bible.
Sheeeeesh....you ***** psycho.
Oh, maybe you didn't notice the point was that a great many Shiites
and Kurds say it was worth it.
Oh, yeah, Stevie the majority of Iraqis think it was just great we
sacrificed our lives to throw off a dictator that they were unable to
muster the courage, organization, and firepower to depose violently.
And maybe you didn't notice that the words you're currently referring
to were taken right out of Randolph's article.
No, I noticed it all, Kid. And why is it that freedom means so little to
them that they had to wait for the day that some foreign power would come
in and help gie it to them? And all the while suffering under a dictator,
but unable to muster the moral determination and physical power to depose
it? Wow! Do you think the American colonists should've called in a major
military force from some foreign country (maybe promising them a big pile
of money and property as an incentive) and had them help give them their
freedom from an English monarchy? Do you think that was something you
could've supported back then? Huh???
Getting Saddam out -- was that the reason that was given to the American
public and to the UNSC?
To liberate an oppressed people? No, certainly, it wasn't and you know it.
It was W M D ... and since it wasn't there, any direct threat to our
national security evaporated without the evidence. And his violations of
the Resolutions didn't threaten our national security. He was bottled up
militarily for many years, with the sanctions punishing the civilians more
than him and his government. Good to let them suffer, eh? By the time we
rumbled in, he had no air force left, and his ground force was
ill-equipped. What a sterling victory for a great military machine! Shock
and awe, baby...
There was no more reason to continue on with the escapade after WMD
weren't found...and yet here we are, sending in more targets, knocking on
the door of Iran, and opening a front with Somalia.A civil war ensures.
And we can't win a civil war, Stevie. It's up to them to finish what we
unfortunately, tragically started by blunder, and compounded by lies.
What would Jesus have said, if anything (which is likely), about such
purposeless mass murder and maiming? Well, he didn't even want killing
with a purpose, did he? Or support for any governmental power, did he?
Lying and being deceptive while civilians die and soldiers die?
So, apparently you're a freaking fanatic who bases his weak convoluted
religious stance on the Old Testiclement -- where a God killed his own
creation, and send orders to his human agents to kill even more.
The Old Testiclement -- dripping with madness, violence and warfare from
God and his angels sending out orders for extra helpings from humans,
too...dripping with testosterone. Does God have balls? I wonder...
Docrodile ;)~
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
28 Jan 2007 07:18:39 PM |
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On Jan 28, 3:31 pm, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1170015560.206193.148400@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:57 am, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:26 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:46 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80 percent
of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam
Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000 double
amputees...tens of thousands of dead civilians, children and
babies...infrastructure shattered, sporadic electrical and water
service
for nearly 4 years, hundreds dead every week, hundreds more injured
and
crippled every week, weak floundering government, civil war, Iran
moves in
(reportedly) with agents and special forces, an American
administration
sunk to the bottom, the American people bitterly divided, huge
amounts
of
money for war contracts wasted (and you didn't even have to pay
extra
taxes!!), money pulled ot of social programs for the poor,
disabled,
homeless; Halliburton's no-bid windfall-profit marathon contracts,
increased
terrorist attacks, a widening of the war into Somalia (with heavy
civilian
casualties), many thousands more troops moving in, naval forces
heading
for the Gulf...why, heavens to Betsy! Removing a tyrant that didn't
threaten the US's security, and a tyrant the Iraqis had the
responsibility
to remove if they wanted freedom so badly, well, gettin' Saddam out
sure as hell costs a lot. One tinhorn dictator and all this bloody
fucking
cost. And you know what, saphead? You didn't have to bloody a
finger
to do
it, pay any extra taxes to support it, and neither did the leaders
you
support and their families or
friends, and neither did the great majority of Americans have to
sacrifice a thing to get the deed done. *****, even the hanging was
an
ugly insane hateful affair by that wonderful US-supported
government,
that bastion of civilization amidst the barbarians.
Yeah, it was sure fucking *worth* it...that ol' righteous-*****
ideological-wallow of a war sure feels good, don't it, fella? Nice
and
cozy here, ain't it, sittin' on your ergonomic chair, playin' with
the
expensive binary machine, scratching your hairy
nutz...and kissin' the Bible.
Sheeeeesh....you ***** psycho.
Oh, maybe you didn't notice the point was that a great many Shiites
and Kurds say it was worth it.
Oh, yeah, Stevie the majority of Iraqis think it was just great we
sacrificed our lives to throw off a dictator that they were unable to
muster the courage, organization, and firepower to depose violently.
And maybe you didn't notice that the words you're currently referring
to were taken right out of Randolph's article.
No, I noticed it all, Kid. And why is it that freedom means so little to
them that they had to wait for the day that some foreign power would come
in and help gie it to them? And all the while suffering under a dictator,
but unable to muster the moral determination and physical power to depose
it? Wow! Do you think the American colonists should've called in a major
military force from some foreign country (maybe promising them a big pile
of money and property as an incentive) and had them help give them their
freedom from an English monarchy?
The French did help. I'm surprised someone of your great intellect was
unaware of that fact.
.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
29 Jan 2007 09:48:01 AM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170033519.167185.146950@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 3:31 pm, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in
messagenews:1170015560.206193.148400@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 12:57 am, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 9:26 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:46 pm, "Dr. Bipolar" <g-ra...@excite.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:10 pm, "Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:44 pm, Perseid Rocks
<eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net>
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/weekinreview/28tave.html
It Has Unraveled So Quickly
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: January 28, 2007<snip>
For those eager to write off Iraq as lost, one fact bears
remembering.
A great many Shiites and Kurds, who together make up 80
percent
of the
population, will tell you that in spite of all the mistakes
the
Americans have made here, the single act of removing Saddam
Hussein
was worth it.
Was it? Man, over 3000 dead and 15,000 injured, over 2000 double
amputees...tens of thousands of dead civilians, children and
babies...infrastructure shattered, sporadic electrical and water
service
for nearly 4 years, hundreds dead every week, hundreds more
injured
and
crippled every week, weak floundering government, civil war,
Iran
moves in
(reportedly) with agents and special forces, an American
administration
sunk to the bottom, the American people bitterly divided, huge
amounts
of
money for war contracts wasted (and you didn't even have to pay
extra
taxes!!), money pulled ot of social programs for the poor,
disabled,
homeless; Halliburton's no-bid windfall-profit marathon
contracts,
increased
terrorist attacks, a widening of the war into Somalia (with
heavy
civilian
casualties), many thousands more troops moving in, naval forces
heading
for the Gulf...why, heavens to Betsy! Removing a tyrant that
didn't
threaten the US's security, and a tyrant the Iraqis had the
responsibility
to remove if they wanted freedom so badly, well, gettin' Saddam
out
sure as hell costs a lot. One tinhorn dictator and all this
bloody
fucking
cost. And you know what, saphead? You didn't have to bloody a
finger
to do
it, pay any extra taxes to support it, and neither did the
leaders
you
support and their families or
friends, and neither did the great majority of Americans have to
sacrifice a thing to get the deed done. *****, even the hanging
was
an
ugly insane hateful affair by that wonderful US-supported
government,
that bastion of civilization amidst the barbarians.
Yeah, it was sure fucking *worth* it...that ol' righteous-*****
ideological-wallow of a war sure feels good, don't it, fella?
Nice
and
cozy here, ain't it, sittin' on your ergonomic chair, playin'
with
the
expensive binary machine, scratching your hairy
nutz...and kissin' the Bible.
Sheeeeesh....you ***** psycho.
Oh, maybe you didn't notice the point was that a great many
Shiites
and Kurds say it was worth it.
Oh, yeah, Stevie the majority of Iraqis think it was just great we
sacrificed our lives to throw off a dictator that they were unable
to
muster the courage, organization, and firepower to depose violently.
And maybe you didn't notice that the words you're currently referring
to were taken right out of Randolph's article.
No, I noticed it all, Kid. And why is it that freedom means so little
to
them that they had to wait for the day that some foreign power would
come
in and help gie it to them? And all the while suffering under a
dictator,
but unable to muster the moral determination and physical power to
depose
it? Wow! Do you think the American colonists should've called in a
major
military force from some foreign country (maybe promising them a big
pile
of money and property as an incentive) and had them help give them
their
freedom from an English monarchy?
The French did help. I'm surprised someone of your great intellect was
unaware of that fact.
Oh, I was sure you'd bring that up...did the French START THE REVOLUTION
or organize it? No! And did the French work for the same goal as the
American colonialists? No! They had their own designs, which focused on
the 'northern regions' - Canada, and the regaining of its lost American
territory. In all likelihood, had France prevailed in its objective, and
occupied the US, there would've been another large war -- between France
and the US government. And was France a democracy at that time? No! They
wanted to establish colonies under monarchial rule. Should we compare that
to Bush's occupation of Iraq? OK, I'm game! LOL! Go ahead and compare it,
Stevie. I'm surprised you didn't mention the German contingent,too! LOL!
So, we didn't ask the French to help us out because they had the goals in
mind, but that we feared being short on manpower to defeat the British and
accepted, however reluctantly, their contribution as Washington knew the
French had different goals. The mutual interest at the moment made it an
opportunistic venture for France. And, essentially, it was a gross error
on our part...and later on their's, too. You're an idiot, Stevie...and
good luck with your 'correction' of the AP writer's story. I'm sure he's
laughing himself silly right now. We're so sick and tired of you trying to
pump up your languishing neoconic ego here, and defend sick scoundrels in
office, and support that insane fucking war, that I truly hope you'll
finally go totally off your rocker (and you're halfway there now) and kill
your stupid self. If I can help, let me know. I'd be glad to assist in
your demise, dance on your grave, and shout Hallelujah! God, that AP
writer must be cackling over your crazy email...LOL!
Docrodile
France, despite its financial difficulties, used the occasion of the
American Revolutionary War (1775-1783) to seek revenge against the Kingdom
of Great Britain and the 1763 Treaty of Paris.
Some historians argue that France intervened to seek revenge against
Britain and the 1763 Treaty of Paris. However Dull, in 1975, argued that
France intervened because of dispassionate calculation, not because of
Anglophobia or a desire to avenge the loss of Canada. French participation
reflected the desperate French diplomatic position on the European
continent. The war was a tragic failure for France: American independence
failed to weaken Britain. The Battle of Saratoga provided only the
occasion for French participation, a policy which had already been
decided. The Spanish navy was vital to the maintenance of the military
initiative by the allies. France was desperate for peace but did not
attempt to betray the United States. The French government was overwhelmed
by debt maintenance, but war led to the financial crisis "which provided
the immediate occasion for the release of those forces which shattered the
French political and social order."
The French entered the war in 1778, and assisted in the victory of the
Americans seeking independence from Britain (realized in the 1783 Treaty
of Paris). Its status as a great modern power was affirmed and its taste
for revenge was satisfied, but the war was detrimental to the country's
finances.
Even though French cities avoided any direct destruction, victory in a war
against Britain with battles like the decisive siege of Yorktown in 1781
had a large military cost (one billion livre tournois) which severely
degraded fragile finances and increased the deficit in France. Even worse,
France's hope to become the first commercial partner of the
newly-established United States was not realized, and Britain immediately
became the United States' main trade partner. Pre-war trade patterns were
largely kept between Britain and the US, with most American trade
remaining within the British Empire. Recognition of France's participation
in the Revolution was mainly manifested in the United States' appreciation
of French military heroes like the Comte de Rochambeau and the Marquis de
Lafayette. France's hope to regain its territories in the United States
(Nouvelle-France) was also lost.
The weakening of the French state, the example of the American Revolution,
and the rising visibility of viable alternatives to the absolute monarchy
were all factors that helped influence the French Revolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolutionary_War
.
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| User: "Perseid" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
30 Jan 2007 01:55:36 AM |
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After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, "Docrodile"
<swampthing@hellsbayou.net> Spat the Words
Even though French cities avoided any direct destruction, victory in a war
against Britain with battles like the decisive siege of Yorktown in 1781
had a large military cost (one billion livre tournois) which severely
degraded fragile finances and increased the deficit in France.
This is all way too much for poor Stevie. Like Bush he thinks
in GRAND ideological terms, like the victorious armies of god
sweeping democracy into the heathen arab mideast tribes.
These intertwined, sometimes conflicting interests, tenuous
alliances, and erstwhile friends and allies which are
calling the shots in these large political-military engagements
are just more detail than he or Bush really care for.
Just give them a few army-man pieces, a large board-map, and
the side of righteousness, and they're as happy as pie.
Even worse,
France's hope to become the first commercial partner of the
newly-established United States was not realized, and Britain immediately
became the United States' main trade partner. Pre-war trade patterns were
largely kept between Britain and the US, with most American trade
remaining within the British Empire. Recognition of France's participation
in the Revolution was mainly manifested in the United States' appreciation
of French military heroes like the Comte de Rochambeau and the Marquis de
Lafayette. France's hope to regain its territories in the United States
(Nouvelle-France) was also lost.
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
29 Jan 2007 09:19:06 PM |
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On Jan 29, 7:48 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
I truly hope you'll finally go totally off your rocker (and you're
halfway there now) and kill your stupid self. If I can help, let me
know. I'd be glad to assist in your demise, dance on your grave,
and shout Hallelujah!
Of course I now know you're only joking, as you have informed me
previously on an occasion such as this one. Some joke. But then
everything you say is a joke, you joker, so I suppose it makes sense
to consider it a joke. Such class you exude! Oh, by the way, I wish
you good health and a long life. I want you around here for a long,
long time, so you can continue to joke your way through life.
.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
30 Jan 2007 03:12:26 AM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170127146.838265.45180@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 29, 7:48 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
I truly hope you'll finally go totally off your rocker (and you're
halfway there now) and kill your stupid self. If I can help, let me
know. I'd be glad to assist in your demise, dance on your grave,
and shout Hallelujah!
Of course I now know you're only joking,
YOU DO????
I wasn't.
LOL!!!
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
30 Jan 2007 08:30:39 AM |
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On Jan 30, 1:12 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170127146.838265.45180@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 29, 7:48 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
I truly hope you'll finally go totally off your rocker (and you're
halfway there now) and kill your stupid self. If I can help, let me
know. I'd be glad to assist in your demise, dance on your grave,
and shout Hallelujah!
Of course I now know you're only joking,
YOU DO????
Yes, you previously chided me for taking you seriously when you made
similar remarks.
I wasn't.
Sure you weren't! What a joker you are!
LOL!!!
See, you just proved you're a joker. Don't worry, I'll never take
another thing you say seriously!
.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
30 Jan 2007 02:12:59 PM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170167439.250621.130190@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 30, 1:12 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170127146.838265.45180@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 29, 7:48 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
I truly hope you'll finally go totally off your rocker (and you're
halfway there now) and kill your stupid self. If I can help, let me
know. I'd be glad to assist in your demise, dance on your grave,
and shout Hallelujah!
Of course I now know you're only joking,
YOU DO????
Yes, you previously chided me for taking you seriously when you made
similar remarks.
I wasn't.
Sure you weren't! What a joker you are!
LOL!!!
See, you just proved you're a joker. Don't worry, I'll never take
another thing you say seriously!
*sniff* *sob*
.
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| User: "Brian" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
30 Jan 2007 08:43:54 AM |
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* Steven Douglas:
On Jan 30, 1:12 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170127146.838265.45180@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 29, 7:48 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
I truly hope you'll finally go totally off your rocker (and you're
halfway there now) and kill your stupid self. If I can help, let me
know. I'd be glad to assist in your demise, dance on your grave,
and shout Hallelujah!
Of course I now know you're only joking,
YOU DO????
Yes, you previously chided me for taking you seriously when you made
similar remarks.
I wasn't.
Sure you weren't! What a joker you are!
LOL!!!
See, you just proved you're a joker. Don't worry, I'll never take
another thing you say seriously!
Who does?
.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: It Has Unraveled So Quickly |
30 Jan 2007 02:13:25 PM |
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"Brian" <my@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:12rumdafn3o9tf6@corp.supernews.com...
* Steven Douglas:
On Jan 30, 1:12 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170127146.838265.45180@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 29, 7:48 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
I truly hope you'll finally go totally | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
