| Topic: |
Science > Prophecies-Of-Nostradamus |
| User: |
"Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer" |
| Date: |
19 Jul 2007 12:20:52 AM |
| Object: |
Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
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I just finished reading 'A Lawyer Presents the Case for the
Afterlife'--Irrefutable Objective Evidence by Victor Zammit,
whose on-line book was recently brought to the attention of
readers, including myself, over multiple popular newsgroups:
http://www.victorzammit.com/book/4thedition/index.html
Overall, it's an interesting read, and I would recommend it
to anyone. I would say I can agree with 90% of the author's
personal conclusions based on the evidence, and disagree on
maybe 10%. But the evidence itself certainly speaks volumes,
and its well-researched presentation moves right along. Not
too much pedantry nor tedium, no more than one might expect.
Some I'd never heard of, others I'm much more familiar with.
A rather long bibliography for such a relatively short book.
As always, the evidence for God and all things supernatural
flies in the face of unbelievers. Zammit's book does a fine
job of presenting starkly-objective empirical evidence that
even the dyed-in-the-wool unbelievers may find difficult to
ignore. But that doesn't mean they won't ignore it and mock
it anyway. Or, if not, they'll attack the messenger instead.
I know that I can personally identify with, and corroborate,
some of the supernatural experiences reported. Clairvoyance,
lucid past-life memories, witnessing unmistakable presences
of spirit-people, frequent astral projection, definite EVPs,
one unmistakable NDE in the Light (a.k.a. bosom of Abraham),
and more everyday ESP, psychic perceptions, synchronicities,
things that I believe everybody does, more or less, but not
everyone is (super) consciously aware that they're doing it;
at least not at the time, but perhaps more on reflection as
an EVP typically only becomes apparent upon play-back. With
practice, like prolific psychic medium James van Praagh has
said, "it's like a muscle; the more you use it, the more it
develops!" But if you don't believe you have it, you're apt
not to use it. So practice believing, believe in using your
psychic "muscle"--it's your God-given birthright, after all.
Though I do have other perhaps nitpicky criticisms of this
book, e.g. his inept criticism of S. scriptures, or belief
in profane courts of mortal men, remember that belief, the
power of faith, is as the difference between night and day.
Don't deny the Solar conductor, or director, His equal due.
In Vigilance,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
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| User: "Cardinal Chunder" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
19 Jul 2007 07:58:37 AM |
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Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
I just finished reading 'A Lawyer Presents the Case for the
Afterlife'--Irrefutable Objective Evidence by Victor Zammit,
whose on-line book was recently brought to the attention of
readers, including myself, over multiple popular newsgroups:
Victor Zammit is a kook, just like you.
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| User: "Zippy P" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
19 Jul 2007 08:24:40 AM |
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Occam's razor sez:
Which is more likely,
1) There are supernatural things like ESP, out of body stuff, ghosts,
mindreading, instrumental telecommunications, remote viewing, voices on tape
and aliens, and we all just choose not to believe in them because we're all
afraid of knowing the real truth.
OR
2) You're a kook
I vote #2.
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| User: "Kimba W, Lion kimbawlion" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
19 Jul 2007 03:56:27 PM |
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"Zippy P" <zippyp@bokaloo.org> wrote:
Occam's razor sez:
Which is more likely,
1) There are supernatural things like ESP, out of body stuff, ghosts,
mindreading, instrumental telecommunications, remote viewing, voices on tape
and aliens, and we all just choose not to believe in them because we're all
afraid of knowing the real truth.
OR
2) You're a kook
"The most merciful thing in the world is the inability of the human mind to
correlate all its contents. The sciences, each straining in its own
direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but someday the piecing together
of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality
that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly
light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
--H.P. Lovecraft
Occam's Razor is just an excuse to cuddle up with your preconceived notions
and not think about things. --me
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| User: "Cardinal Chunder" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
19 Jul 2007 04:55:10 PM |
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Kimba W, Lion wrote:
"Zippy P" <zippyp@bokaloo.org> wrote:
Occam's razor sez:
Which is more likely,
1) There are supernatural things like ESP, out of body stuff, ghosts,
mindreading, instrumental telecommunications, remote viewing, voices on tape
and aliens, and we all just choose not to believe in them because we're all
afraid of knowing the real truth.
OR
2) You're a kook
"The most merciful thing in the world is the inability of the human mind to
correlate all its contents. The sciences, each straining in its own
direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but someday the piecing together
of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality
that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly
light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
--H.P. Lovecraft
Occam's Razor is just an excuse to cuddle up with your preconceived notions
and not think about things. --me
There is a difference between thinking about things and imagining things.
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| User: "Kimba W, Lion kimbawlion" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
19 Jul 2007 10:01:05 PM |
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Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
There is a difference between thinking about things and imagining things.
Duh.
What has that got to do with the conversation?
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| User: "Cardinal Chunder" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
20 Jul 2007 05:29:26 AM |
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Kimba W, Lion wrote:
Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
There is a difference between thinking about things and imagining things.
Duh.
What has that got to do with the conversation?
It means I can imagine up all kinds of claptrap to explain some event,
but it doesn't make it right. And there no reason to favour a
complicated explanation if simpler one exists and (more than) adequately
explains events.
As is the case with people asserting afterlife.
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| User: "Kimba W. Lion kimbawlion" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
20 Jul 2007 10:38:16 AM |
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Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
It means I can imagine up all kinds of claptrap to explain some event,
but it doesn't make it right. And there no reason to favour a
complicated explanation if simpler one exists and (more than) adequately
explains events.
As is the case with people asserting afterlife.
So in your view it is simpler to assume that, when someone asserts
something you don't know about or don't want to know about, that person
must be imagining things--see my earlier comment about Occam's Razor.
Calling this an adequate explanation of events is simply a failure to
correlate all the factors involved.
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| User: "Cardinal Chunder" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
20 Jul 2007 11:56:26 AM |
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Kimba W. Lion wrote:
Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
It means I can imagine up all kinds of claptrap to explain some event,
but it doesn't make it right. And there no reason to favour a
complicated explanation if simpler one exists and (more than) adequately
explains events.
As is the case with people asserting afterlife.
So in your view it is simpler to assume that, when someone asserts
something you don't know about or don't want to know about, that person
must be imagining things
Nope. Go and read what Occam's Razor means.
--see my earlier comment about Occam's Razor.
Calling this an adequate explanation of events is simply a failure to
correlate all the factors involved.
What factors are you referring to now? Are you going to astound us with
actual proof for the afterlife as opposed to the usual hearsay?
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| User: "Kimba W. Lion kimbawlion" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
20 Jul 2007 03:26:01 PM |
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Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
Are you going to astound us with
actual proof for the afterlife as opposed to the usual hearsay?
I have no delusions of convincing you of anything. It's just that the
arrogance of stupidity is such a very bizarre thing that I can't resist
playing with it once in a while.
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| User: "Larry Huntley" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
20 Jul 2007 08:52:44 PM |
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Kimba W. Lion <kimbawlion> stepped up to the podium, tapped the aging SM57
and announced in news:hg62a3hh2c6rh0s7nektrjfvdm42pahnk7@4ax.com:
Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
Are you going to astound us with
actual proof for the afterlife as opposed to the usual hearsay?
I have no delusions of convincing you of anything. It's just that the
arrogance of stupidity is such a very bizarre thing that I can't resist
playing with it once in a while.
No one has asked you to "convince" them of anything. If you had
actual proof to provide, no "convincing" would be necessary. Since
you seem to believe in an afterlife, perhaps you could state why you
do.
- L
--
Larry Huntley Portland, OR
Skep-Ti-Cult Member #130-978649-969 (no Snazzy Rank)
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| User: "Kimba W. Lion kimbawlion" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
21 Jul 2007 06:48:43 AM |
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Larry Huntley <ljhuntleyNO@SPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
No one has asked you to "convince" them of anything. If you had
actual proof to provide, no "convincing" would be necessary. Since
you seem to believe in an afterlife, perhaps you could state why you
do.
Wow. You guys really need a new script. This old one just goes in circles.
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| User: "Cardinal Chunder" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
21 Jul 2007 01:31:52 PM |
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Kimba W. Lion wrote:
Larry Huntley <ljhuntleyNO@SPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
No one has asked you to "convince" them of anything. If you had
actual proof to provide, no "convincing" would be necessary. Since
you seem to believe in an afterlife, perhaps you could state why you
do.
Wow. You guys really need a new script. This old one just goes in circles.
Your continued evasion of the request to supply evidence is noted.
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| User: "Cujo DeSockpuppet" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
21 Jul 2007 01:34:28 PM |
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Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote in
news:f7tjf912ela@news4.newsguy.com:
Kimba W. Lion wrote:
Larry Huntley <ljhuntleyNO@SPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
No one has asked you to "convince" them of anything. If you had
actual proof to provide, no "convincing" would be necessary. Since
you seem to believe in an afterlife, perhaps you could state why you
do.
Wow. You guys really need a new script. This old one just goes in
circles.
Your continued evasion of the request to supply evidence is noted.
Why would a new script be needed anyway? It still keeps the kooks dancing.
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| User: "Kimba W. Lion kimbawlion" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
21 Jul 2007 05:42:28 PM |
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Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
Your continued evasion of the request to supply evidence is noted.
And so is your trotting out the space chickens. Geez, if you can't think
for yourself, at least buy a new script once in a while. That one wasn't
even funny the first time I heard it. And I've heard it many, many times.
Come to think of it, you went to the space chickens just a little ahead of
schedule; are you tired of the same old thing, too?
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| User: "Cardinal Chunder" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
21 Jul 2007 05:52:35 PM |
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Kimba W. Lion wrote:
Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
Your continued evasion of the request to supply evidence is noted.
And so is your trotting out the space chickens. Geez, if you can't think
for yourself, at least buy a new script once in a while. That one wasn't
even funny the first time I heard it. And I've heard it many, many times.
Come to think of it, you went to the space chickens just a little ahead of
schedule; are you tired of the same old thing, too?
So you're saying you've heard reports of space chickens before but still
you choose to dismiss it? If you think think Occam's Razor is for people
with no imagination, why are you not seriously investigating these
reports of space chickens?
Meanwhile perhaps you might supply evidence for whatever the hell else
it is you think should be exempt from Occam's Razor.
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| User: "Kimba W. Lion kimbawlion" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
21 Jul 2007 07:04:24 PM |
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Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
So you're saying you've heard reports of space chickens before but still
you choose to dismiss it? If you think think Occam's Razor is for people
with no imagination, why are you not seriously investigating these
reports of space chickens?
Weak attempt; expect better. Try not to rush your next reply. D+.
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| User: "Cardinal Chunder" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
23 Jul 2007 03:27:55 AM |
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Kimba W. Lion wrote:
Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
So you're saying you've heard reports of space chickens before but still
you choose to dismiss it? If you think think Occam's Razor is for people
with no imagination, why are you not seriously investigating these
reports of space chickens?
Weak attempt; expect better. Try not to rush your next reply. D+.
Your continued evasion is noted. Can't you just give a straight answer?
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| User: "Cardinal Chunder" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
20 Jul 2007 05:11:57 PM |
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Kimba W. Lion wrote:
Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
Are you going to astound us with
actual proof for the afterlife as opposed to the usual hearsay?
I have no delusions of convincing you of anything. It's just that the
arrogance of stupidity is such a very bizarre thing that I can't resist
playing with it once in a while.
Right. So it's arrogant to expect people to supply evidence for their
extraordinary claims?
I lost my car keys the other day. I eventually found them down the back
of the sofa and reasonably concluded they must have fallen down there.
But let's toss out Occam's Razor and go the kook route of reasoning.
Perhaps my keys were moved down the back of the sofa by the high chief
of all the gnomes in order to ward off interdimensional space chickens!
After all, that's as much an explanation as my mundane and boring one.
In fact its far more exciting - space chickens! And since Occam's Razor
doesn't matter, let's simply assert it as fact! Space chickens! Gnomes!
Do you get it yet? Occam's Razor is there for a reason. It's a nutball
filter.
I doubt you do. Most likely you have some nutty belief lodged in your
skull and you're not going to let common sense get the better of you.
That is perhaps why you avoided providing evidence for the afterlife as
I asked for. Much better to make feeble excuses rather than provide
evidence for your klaims right?
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| User: "Kimba W. Lion kimbawlion" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
21 Jul 2007 06:34:44 AM |
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Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
Most likely you have some nutty belief lodged in your
skull and you're not going to let common sense get the better of you.
This coming from the person that needs to construct straw man arguments to
support his untenable position.
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| User: "Cardinal Chunder" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
21 Jul 2007 01:30:39 PM |
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Kimba W. Lion wrote:
Cardinal Chunder <cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
Most likely you have some nutty belief lodged in your
skull and you're not going to let common sense get the better of you.
This coming from the person that needs to construct straw man arguments to
support his untenable position.
What straw man argument would that be? What thing is it that you think
doesn't deserve to have Occam's Razor applied to it?
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| User: "Jyeshta" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
19 Jul 2007 06:06:45 PM |
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On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:55:10 +0100, Cardinal Chunder
<cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
Kimba W, Lion wrote:
"Zippy P" <zippyp@bokaloo.org> wrote:
Occam's razor sez:
Which is more likely,
1) There are supernatural things like ESP, out of body stuff, ghosts,
mindreading, instrumental telecommunications, remote viewing, voices on tape
and aliens, and we all just choose not to believe in them because we're all
afraid of knowing the real truth.
OR
2) You're a kook
"The most merciful thing in the world is the inability of the human mind to
correlate all its contents. The sciences, each straining in its own
direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but someday the piecing together
of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality
that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly
light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
--H.P. Lovecraft
Occam's Razor is just an excuse to cuddle up with your preconceived notions
and not think about things. --me
There is a difference between thinking about things and imagining things.
Yet, without imagination, we'd still be in the Stone Age.
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| User: "Bob Officer" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
21 Jul 2007 12:17:25 PM |
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On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:06:45 -0500, in alt.astrology, Jyeshta
<whatever@twixtntween.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:55:10 +0100, Cardinal Chunder
<cc@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote:
Kimba W, Lion wrote:
"Zippy P" <zippyp@bokaloo.org> wrote:
Occam's razor sez:
Which is more likely,
1) There are supernatural things like ESP, out of body stuff, ghosts,
mindreading, instrumental telecommunications, remote viewing, voices on tape
and aliens, and we all just choose not to believe in them because we're all
afraid of knowing the real truth.
OR
2) You're a kook
"The most merciful thing in the world is the inability of the human mind to
correlate all its contents. The sciences, each straining in its own
direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but someday the piecing together
of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality
that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly
light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
--H.P. Lovecraft
Occam's Razor is just an excuse to cuddle up with your preconceived notions
and not think about things. --me
There is a difference between thinking about things and imagining things.
Yet, without imagination, we'd still be in the Stone Age.
Without thinking we would believe in astrology, praying to rocks,
beast, statues, and a imaginary man that lives in the sky.
Oops you still believe in some of that stuff, don't you?
--
Ak'toh'di
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| User: "Jyeshta" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
19 Jul 2007 06:05:44 PM |
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On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:56:27 -0400, "Kimba W, Lion" <kimbawlion>
wrote:
"Zippy P" <zippyp@bokaloo.org> wrote:
Occam's razor sez:
Which is more likely,
1) There are supernatural things like ESP, out of body stuff, ghosts,
mindreading, instrumental telecommunications, remote viewing, voices on tape
and aliens, and we all just choose not to believe in them because we're all
afraid of knowing the real truth.
OR
2) You're a kook
"The most merciful thing in the world is the inability of the human mind to
correlate all its contents. The sciences, each straining in its own
direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but someday the piecing together
of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality
that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly
light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
--H.P. Lovecraft
Occam's Razor is just an excuse to cuddle up with your preconceived notions
and not think about things. --me
"Occam's Razor is the principle of having little imagination."
(or something to that effect...) --Fox Mulder
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| User: "suzee" |
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| Title: Re: Lawyer Presents Case for Afterlife - Use Your Own Judgment |
19 Jul 2007 01:47:39 PM |
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Zippy P wrote:
Occam's razor sez:
Which is more likely,
1) There are supernatural things like ESP, out of body stuff, ghosts,
mindreading, instrumental telecommunications, remote viewing, voices on tape
and aliens, and we all just choose not to believe in them because we're all
afraid of knowing the real truth.
OR
2) You're a kook
I vote #2.
Both could be true....
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