Jean Guernon <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message

Leigh_Bee a écrit:

Kipper <Kipper@here.com> wrote in message

Just looking for a few ideas on these two.


C1:Q68

O to what a dreadful and wretched torment
are three innocent people going to be delivered.
Poison suggested, badly guarded, betrayal.
Delivered up to horror by drunken executioners.

C I-Q68 0 quel horrible et malheureux torment
Troys innocens qu'on viendra à liurer.
Poyson suspecte,mal garde tradiment
Mis en horreur par bourreaux enyurés.
Oh, [to] what a terrible and dreadful torture Three guiltless men
shall be adjudged;
Poison suspected, badly guarded, treason--Put to horror by drunken
executioners.
Line 1. 'torment' has the special meaning of interrogatory torture.
Lines 2 and 4. Note the unusual rhymes.

Leoni gives this one:
CIQ 68. Many interpretations are in order for this rather general one,
including perhaps the July 16, 1918, murder of whichever three members
of the Romanov family are considered innocent.

But they were executed, no...

Yes but by drunks, a torture in itself, think Patrice La Mumba!

C2:Q47

The great old enemy mourning dies of poison,
The sovereigns subjugated in infinite numbers:
Stones raining, hidden under the fleece,
Through death articles are cited in vain.

Le Vert gives this does it help, and what did you have in mind in
relation to these?

C II -Q47 L'ennemi grand viel dueil meurt de poison:
Les souuerains par infinis subiuguez.
Pierres plouuoir, cachés sous la toison:
Par mort articles en vain sont allegués.
The great old enemy [is dead and there is] mourning [for his]
death by poison. Subject rulers without number [gather). Stones rain
[down] land they are) hidden under the Fleece. Because of [his] death,
obligations are claimed in vain.
Line 2. One syllable too long. 'par' might be omitted. Line 4.
'articles' and 'allegue's' are legal terms. The implication is that
claims, accusations, feudal obligations are rendered meaningless by
death.,
At the funeral of the Emperor, the princes of Europe gather in the
Hall of the Golden Fleece in Brussels (where Charles V had just
abdicated as King of Spain to Philip II). The roof collapses, and many
are killed. After the death of the Emperor it is impossible to control
the election of a new Emperor, or enforce treaty obligations.

LB

Poison?

J.

It is an odd one, but maybe he suspects being poisoned, or just wants
to end it, and after a big state funeral, a rain of meteorites, and
nobody wants to observe international law.

Jean Guernon <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message news:<WqSjd.4717574$6p.773034@news.easynews.com>...

Leigh_Bee a écrit:

Kipper <Kipper@here.com> wrote in message news:<mruuo0t7jq9nrphv0suiqatns31ttem80q@4ax.com>...

Just looking for a few ideas on these two.


C1:Q68

O to what a dreadful and wretched torment
are three innocent people going to be delivered.
Poison suggested, badly guarded, betrayal.
Delivered up to horror by drunken executioners.

C I-Q68 0 quel horrible et malheureux torment
Troys innocens qu'on viendra à liurer.
Poyson suspecte,mal garde tradiment
Mis en horreur par bourreaux enyurés.
Oh, [to] what a terrible and dreadful torture Three guiltless men
shall be adjudged;
Poison suspected, badly guarded, treason--Put to horror by drunken
executioners.
Line 1. 'torment' has the special meaning of interrogatory torture.
Lines 2 and 4. Note the unusual rhymes.

Leoni gives this one:
CIQ 68. Many interpretations are in order for this rather general one,
including perhaps the July 16, 1918, murder of whichever three members
of the Romanov family are considered innocent.

But they were executed, no...

Yes but by drunks, a torture in itself, think Patrice La Mumba!

C2:Q47

The great old enemy mourning dies of poison,
The sovereigns subjugated in infinite numbers:
Stones raining, hidden under the fleece,
Through death articles are cited in vain.

Le Vert gives this does it help, and what did you have in mind in
relation to these?

C II -Q47 L'ennemi grand viel dueil meurt de poison:
Les souuerains par infinis subiuguez.
Pierres plouuoir, cachés sous la toison:
Par mort articles en vain sont allegués.
The great old enemy [is dead and there is] mourning [for his]
death by poison. Subject rulers without number [gather). Stones rain
[down] land they are) hidden under the Fleece. Because of [his] death,
obligations are claimed in vain.
Line 2. One syllable too long. 'par' might be omitted. Line 4.
'articles' and 'allegue's' are legal terms. The implication is that
claims, accusations, feudal obligations are rendered meaningless by
death.,
At the funeral of the Emperor, the princes of Europe gather in the
Hall of the Golden Fleece in Brussels (where Charles V had just
abdicated as King of Spain to Philip II). The roof collapses, and many
are killed. After the death of the Emperor it is impossible to control
the election of a new Emperor, or enforce treaty obligations.

LB

Poison?

J.

It is an odd one, but maybe he suspects being poisoned, or just wants
to end it, and after a big state funeral, a rain of meteorites, and
nobody wants to observe international law.
LB

rinomalloux@hotmail.com (rino) wrote in message news:<cf441a5d.0411082028.74fd0997@posting.google.com>...

Jean Guernon <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message news:<5xPjd.2614400$yk.414007@news.easynews.com>...

Kipper a écrit:

Just looking for a few ideas on these two.


C1:Q68

O to what a dreadful and wretched torment
are three innocent people going to be delivered.
Poison suggested, badly guarded, betrayal.
Delivered up to horror by drunken executioners.

http://www.propheties.it/no/prima%20centuria/c1q68.htm

This one could be about the assassination attempt of Henri IV.

One must remember that it was a former student of the college of
Clermont, jean Châtel, who tried to kill the monarch. History tells us
that the jesuits were those who inspired Châtel to commit his crime.
Hence we learn that Jesuits were proclaiming against this tyrant that he
"should be eliminated by by the use of treacherous poison or at the very
least by the heroic dagger".

Thus encouraged, Châtel would have taken a dagger and waited for the
king at Shomberg Hotel. He missed the "coup" though, and was immediately
arrested and tortured.

Under the "question" (torture) Châtel denounced the complicity of his
professor of Theology, father Gueret, as well as another one of his
mentor, father Guinard. December 29th 1594, Châtel was executed in Place
de la Grêve. His wrist was first cut, as was the custom to do to
regicides. Afterwards he was quartered. He was then incinerated and his
ashes were thrown to the wind.

Now if "poison suggested" really means the use of it, of course, and not
the call for it, it would be something else. one could think of the
affair of the poisons (La Voisin, April 1679) but although many were
also suspected, there were no innocent nobles put to the question
(torture) for complicity. IMO, it is the first hypothesis here (Henri
IV) that has a real correlation.

(Either way, this can't be about Arafat.)

C2:Q47

The great old enemy mourning dies of poison,
The sovereigns subjugated in infinite numbers:
Stones raining, hidden under the fleece,
Through death articles are cited in vain.

http://www.propheties.it/no/seconda%20centuria/c2q47.htm

This one is interesting for the present times and Arafat... We have a
different take (Donne), but the poison part is more abstract. And so I
will not elaborate on this event that happened at the eruption of the
Vesuvius in (Dec) 1631, since the actual context of Arafat, Fellujah,
and the total weaseling of most of the Europeans leaders of Old Europe,
overwhelmed to be weasels by their anti-US propaganda brainwashed
population (I mean from Nostradamus point of view albeit this has to be
reworded), could also have some correlation, although this is merely a
totally spontaneous appraisal, made by the inspiration of the moment,
and thus it needs to be considered much more seriously before it becomes
even an hypothesis. Which can't even begin to be considered, really,
until there is some possible credibility to the poison theory, and so,
only time could tell us if this have any correlation, but it is an
interesting hypothesis that you suggest here. But anyway, as I say, I
won't comment further on that one. Will merely think about it for now
and keep in mind the Donne hypothesis. May come back on it later though.
Interesting...

J.

What I have on this quatrain had not yet been translated
Les trois meurtres de Mme de Brinvilliers (1676)
Q.1,68___ O quel horrible et mal heureux tourment
Trois innocens qu'on viendra à livrer
Poison suspecte, mal garde tradiment
Mis en horreur par borreaux enyvrés
Part of this story is found in Q.5,36
One father and his two sons were poisoned with arsenic. The dauther of
the father and sister of the sons did that monstrous act.
See the Poison Affair from the Columbia Encyclopedia for a better
story

Rino

Here is part of what is found in this Encyclopedia:
POISON AFFAIR - "scandal implicating a number of prominent persons at
the court of Louis XIV. It began with the trial of Marie Madeleine
d'Aubray, marquise de Brinvilliers (1630-1676). She conspired with her
lover Godin de Saint-Croix, an army captain, to poison her father and
two brother in order to secure the family fortune and to end
interference in her adulterous relationship".

Her lover, Godin de Sainte-Croix was a handsome young cavalry officer
of extravagant tastes and bad reputation. For a year Saint-Croix
remained a prisoner in the Bastille, where he is popularly supposed to
have acquired a knowledge of poison from his fellow prisoner, the
Italian Exili. Godin de Sainte-Croix is said to be of evil practices
such as the Black Mass, and other assemblies of invocations to the
devil. Some historians are telling that he was a brother knight in he
Order of Orient, an occult branch of the Templars founded by Michael
Psellus in the 11th Cent. Evidences of the passage of this Order are
found in the Temple of Saint-Croix at Plérin, in France.

As for the executioners, it was a commun practice to dance and drink
when someone was burned on an open fire. The Marquise of Brinvilliers
was beheaded and burned.
Rino