SATURN COMES OUT OF BONDAGE,
FRENCH TERRITORY INUNDATED
The recent destruction of New Orleans by the powerful hurricane named
Katrina is a national tragedy, which also struck me personally. Though
I'd only been to the city once as a child, it was where my parents
met, and many family members lived there, some just returned from a
visit; those who survive are sure their homes are lost, others may not
have made it. Many of those who remained have been said to have
"chosen" to do so, while in fact they were trapped since public
transportation was unavailable a couple days before the storm struck,
and poverty was widespread. The response seems hampered by lack of
local National Guards and rescue equipment. Anarchy has marked the
aftermath, and the flood waters are certain to be toxic (due in part to
oil refineries in the area). Relating the calamity to some verse seems
particularly futile if it leads nowhere, but demonstrating this
historic catastrophe is part of the prophecies seems obligatory after
my other post-mortems.
Drawing up a chart using 2am Monday CDT 29 August 2005 showed the Moon
with Vesta at the Ascendant, but this relied on 2am precisely, which
was somewhat arbitrary: the levee failure occurred after the storm
passed the city. Neptune in retrograde is still in the midst of
Aquarius, a condition related to II.78 for the Sumatran Tsunami, but
this event does not fit that quatrain (Neptune will remain in Aquarius
for a few more years). Whether VI.90's stinking disgrace associated
with Neptune has been fulfilled is doubtful.
Neither could this tragedy comprise the unhappy hour or bad time of
IV.72, which bears the encoded chronology of 19 February. And it is
unlikely to have anything to do with the Adriatic wreckage of II.86 I
projected after the Egyptian bombings. The swamp reference of IX.29
may not fit for the bayou wetlands, calling for "new fire" which is
not a clever enough phrase for the global warming many suspect gave
Katrina more power via 90-degree water in the Gulf of Mexico.
Then I considered something more simple, like III.51 line 3 -
Ceux d'Orleans voudront leur chef remettre
Those of Orleans will want to replace their chief
Dropping the "New" identification, this could name the city, and
encapsulate the argument many have been making that the project to
strengthen the levees was underfunded by the Bush administration,
citing the Iraq war and tax cuts. It is very difficult to relate the
rest of this verse to the incident however: except that 29 August is
the feastday of St. Sabina of Troyes, a town mentioned in the
following, final line.
Shaped like a crescent, New Orleans was nicknamed the Crescent City,
though mentions of a crescent in Nostradamian verse are usually related
to a lunar phase or Islamic symbolism. X.95's relowering of the
crescent thus appeared a possibility, with its final line (about those
of Friday-the Muslim Sabbath--having their wings clipped) maybe even
relating to the subsequent stampede of Shi'ite pilgrims in Iraq off a
bridge which killed nearly a thousand (apparently instigated by
security forces shouting about bombs and terrorists to move the crowd
along, akin to yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater). This
interpretation requires Katrina to be the powerful "King"
subjugating the South (Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi), which seems
belied by the feminine nomenclature.
The major saintly commemoration of 29 August is for the beheading of
St. John the Baptist; along with Troyes, a connection can be made with
Autun, a town which also figures in the quatrains, but not in an
appropriate context.
Finally, V.87 came to mind, with its prediction of flooding -
L'an que Saturne hors de servage
Au franc terroir sera d'eau inond=E9;
De sang Troyen sera son marriage,
Et sera s=FBr d'Espagnols circund=E9.
The year that Saturn is out of bondage
French territory will be by water inundated;
Of Troyen blood will be his marriage,
And by Westerners will be safely barricaded.
I kept "Troyen" as is, rather than convert it to Trojan, to show
similarity with Troyes.
New Orleans was part of the Louisiana purchase of territory belonging
to France, and remained under Napoleonic code.
It should be noted that Saturn entered Leo 16 July 2005, leaving its
"bondage" or servitude under Cancer (which the ringed planet had
entered in June 2003). This Saturn transition was only about six weeks
before the flooding of New Orleans. Line 3 notes the marriage of the
flooding and the Saturn transition will be marked by something
"Troyen," i.e., the feastday of St. Sabina of Troyes. Sabina was
the sister of St. Sabinian: she sought her missing brother in Troyes,
France, but he was already dead and being venerated - she died soon
after, c. 275.
Without hinting towards another event on the horizon, the verse
concludes by declaring the people of the Western land where this occurs
will simply surround the area for safety, suggesting New Orleans will
remain lost rather than being rebuilt, as it was below sea level
between three large bodies of water, relying on pumps for drainage.
Eagal
.
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| User: "Eagal" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
02 Sep 2005 06:48:57 PM |
|
|
IX.29's "Feu neuf par saignes" (new fire for swamps) could be applied
to conflagrations in the aftermath of the flooding in New Orleans
(though that is not how I envisioned its fulfillment prior).
This verse appears to be unfolding out of sequence: the following
"bitument a Charlieu" was related to the 2001 oil pollution at the
Galapagos Islands (where Charles Darwin did research). The final line
about St. Quentin (October 31 feastday) and "Balez" (or Bali) being
reprised, or repeated, might have already occurred as well through a
series of events: EgyptAir 990 crash off NYC, Singapore plane on wrong
runway a year later (31 October 2000); Bali bombing October 2002 two
years after the 11 October Cole bombing in Yemen.
My interpretation of IX.29's first two lines has been posted...
*
Bossu sera =E9lu par le conseil
Plus hideux monstre en terre n'aper=E7u
Le coup voulant crevera l'=9Cil
Le tra=EEtre au Roi pour fid=E8le re=E7u.
[III.41]
.
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| User: "Claude Latremouille" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
04 Sep 2005 10:17:16 AM |
|
|
On 2 Sep 2005 03:03:18 -0700, "Eagal" <cjspub@cnmnetwork.com>
wrote in part about quatrain V-87
*
SATURN COMES OUT OF BONDAGE,
FRENCH TERRITORY INUNDATED
*
[...]
*
Finally, V.87 came to mind, with its prediction of flooding -
*
And the original V-87 follows:
*
------------ C E N T V R I E___C I N Q V I E S M E. ----------
------------------ (édition de novembre 1557) ----------------
*
------------------------- L X X X V I I ----------------------
--------- L'an que Saturne sera hors de seruage, -------------
--------- Au franc terroir sera d'eaue inondé: ---------------
--------- De sang Troyen sera son mariage. -------------------
--------- Et sera seur d'Espaignolz circonder. ---------------
*
New Orleans was part of the Louisiana purchase of territory belonging
to France, and remained under Napoleonic code.
It should be noted that Saturn entered Leo 16 July 2005, leaving its
"bondage" or servitude under Cancer (which the ringed planet had
entered in June 2003). This Saturn transition was only about six weeks
before the flooding of New Orleans. Line 3 notes the marriage of the
flooding and the Saturn transition will be marked by something
"Troyen," i.e., the feastday of St. Sabina of Troyes. Sabina was
the sister of St. Sabinian: she sought her missing brother in Troyes,
France, but he was already dead and being venerated - she died soon
after, c. 275.
Without hinting towards another event on the horizon, the verse
concludes by declaring the people of the Western land where this occurs
will simply surround the area for safety, suggesting New Orleans will
remain lost rather than being rebuilt, as it was below sea level
between three large bodies of water, relying on pumps for drainage.
Eagal
*
Your explanation of line 1 was... perfect. Pity that you had to
muddle the waters with the notion that Spaniards in line 4 refer
to Westerners. Why not go for the most obvious and simple: the
South of the US is indeed surrounded by Spanish-speaking people.
*
As to the connection between V-87 and the Katrina Hurricane, I am
not convinced, as the only clear link between the two is year
2005 (when Saturn enters Leo and therefore escapes its servitude
in Cancer); you know that Saturn did that quite often between
1557 and 2005, so -- to be convinced of your view -- I would have
to be sure that there was no flooding in France (line 2) when
Saturn entered Leo in the past.
*
But I agree that Louisiana can be considered French territory, as
it was sold by France to the US.
*
Have a nice day, folks!
*
Claude Latrémouille
http://web.ncf.ca/cj559
*
=== ===
=== CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
===========================
--
*** ** ***
C L A U D E L A T R E M O U I L L E
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "Eagal" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
08 Sep 2005 06:05:00 AM |
|
|
I suppose I was influenced by Leoni's commentary on I.28 regarding the
word "hesperique," Hesperian. His footnote: Latin Hesperius, of the
western land. Other footnote: "Spanish? American?" Commentary: "Here
we have the first instance of the provocative Hesperia. It would
clearly be the Spaniards, were it not for 450 [IV.50], which predicts
'the monarchy of heaven and earth' for the Hesperians. At a time when
Spanish power was supreme everywhere, this is hardly a prediction.
Hesperia, the Land of the West, was used by the Greeks for Italy and by
the Romans for Spain. One cannot but reflect that it would have been
an ideal name for the New World. Thus, though probably the Spanish are
intended, there is some slight justification for reading 'American' in
(if Nostradamus be granted prophetic powers)..."
Spain being to the west of France, America much further west, I have
been interpreting some references to Spain as intending the US.
Perhaps it is wrong, but I would not consider New Orleans, or the
modern territory of the Louisiana Purchase to have a predominantly
Spanish population.
Regarding the timing issue, it is not simply the year of a transit of
Saturn into a new sign, which would indeed include many years since the
verse was written, but the connection of this with a "Troyen" cue. I
doubt there have been many years when Saturn went into a new sign, and
a French territory that has a cryptic correlation with Spain was
flooded at a time that a Troyen cue emerged. Thus it is the obscure 29
August feastday of St. Sabina of Troyes coinciding with the flooding of
New Orleans and the Saturn element (N. writes it is in the same year,
they were only a few weeks apart) that prompted me to write the initial
post.
If V.87 does apply, the only useful information after the event lies in
the final line, which could merely foretell the current evacuation
rather than the area being permanently designated a disaster area.
Some suppose New Orleans will be re-developed into a Las Vegas of the
South within five years.
The other passages mentioned could also be in play, with V.87 having
this incident as the central focus. The toxic bacteria-laden water
filling the city could be the stinking abominable disgrace of VI.90.
The city being rendered into a swamp with fires occuring may fulfill
part of IX.29, an event which had been anticipated since the 2000
election debacle, with only one incident remaining for completion (line
2).
While Dr Turi predicted the date of the evacuation, and had the current
date as the time for an official announcement of a great number of
fatalities, I doubt the quatrains were his source. He claims to use
Nostradamian astrological techniques, but says his predictive ability
originated during an alien abduction, when a helmet was placed on his
head to download information (this was recalled under hypnosis). He
states a similar catastrophe will occur around 26 September 2005, when
I note the Moon will again conjunct with Vesta: this alone is
insufficient to confirm or elaborate upon this prediction using the
quatrains prior to a manifestation whose details can be analyzed. Turi
also claims to be unable to determine precise locations beforehand.
.
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| User: "Claude Latremouille" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
09 Sep 2005 10:02:46 AM |
|
|
On 8 Sep 2005 04:05:00 -0700, "Eagal" <cjspub@cnmnetwork.com>
wrote about his earlier reference to Spaniards in quatrain V-87:
*
------------ C E N T V R I E___C I N Q V I E S M E. ----------
------------------ (édition de novembre 1557) ----------------
*
------------------------- L X X X V I I ----------------------
--------- L'an que Saturne sera hors de seruage, -------------
--------- Au franc terroir sera d'eaue inondé: ---------------
--------- De sang Troyen sera son mariage. -------------------
--------- Et sera seur d'Espaignolz circonder. ---------------
*
Without hinting towards another event on the horizon, the verse
concludes by declaring the people of the Western land where this occurs
will simply surround the area for safety, suggesting New Orleans will
remain lost rather than being rebuilt, as it was below sea level
between three large bodies of water, relying on pumps for drainage.
Eagal
*
To which I had responded:
*
Your explanation of line 1 was... perfect. Pity that you had to
muddle the waters with the notion that Spaniards in line 4 refer
to Westerners. Why not go for the most obvious and simple: the
South of the US is indeed surrounded by Spanish-speaking people.
*
To which he now adds:
*
I suppose I was influenced by Leoni's commentary on I.28 regarding the
word "hesperique," Hesperian. His footnote: Latin Hesperius, of the
western land. Other footnote: "Spanish? American?" Commentary: "Here
we have the first instance of the provocative Hesperia. It would
clearly be the Spaniards, were it not for 450 [IV.50], which predicts
'the monarchy of heaven and earth' for the Hesperians. At a time when
Spanish power was supreme everywhere, this is hardly a prediction.
Hesperia, the Land of the West, was used by the Greeks for Italy and by
the Romans for Spain. One cannot but reflect that it would have been
an ideal name for the New World. Thus, though probably the Spanish are
intended, there is some slight justification for reading 'American' in
(if Nostradamus be granted prophetic powers)..."
Spain being to the west of France, America much further west, I have
been interpreting some references to Spain as intending the US.
Perhaps it is wrong, but I would not consider New Orleans, or the
modern territory of the Louisiana Purchase to have a predominantly
Spanish population.
*
Spain or Spaniards can only be connected to 'hesperique' from a
Roman point of view, just as Italy can only serve the same
purpose from a Greek point of view. And my geography considers
Spain to be South of France, not West of it.
*
From the French point of view, North America would indeed be
'hesperique' as it is due West of it. Hell, my own place is on
the very same parallel as Salon, Nostradamus' town.
*
My point being that the word 'hesperique' is not part of V-87,
and that the link between 'hesperique' and the Spaniards ought
not to be made in reverse, as that link only applies to Italy.
*
'Franc terroir' makes much more sense as a possible reference to
Louisiana, as it was once part of New France.
*
Regarding the timing issue, it is not simply the year of a transit of
Saturn into a new sign, which would indeed include many years since the
verse was written, but the connection of this with a "Troyen" cue. I
doubt there have been many years when Saturn went into a new sign, and
a French territory that has a cryptic correlation with Spain was
flooded at a time that a Troyen cue emerged. Thus it is the obscure 29
August feastday of St. Sabina of Troyes coinciding with the flooding of
New Orleans and the Saturn element (N. writes it is in the same year,
they were only a few weeks apart) that prompted me to write the initial
post.
*
Understood. You might also be aware that Nostradamus at least
once referred to Troie, or to Troyen, or to Troyenne, as a poetic
and legendary link between Troy and... France. So, in that
context, "sang Troyen" would refer to French blood. Which seems
to place us further away from New Orleans, as the main cause of
death there would be water, not the spilling of blood by whatever
means.
*
If V.87 does apply, the only useful information after the event lies in
the final line, which could merely foretell the current evacuation
rather than the area being permanently designated a disaster area.
*
Yesterday, French news mentioned a possibility which might
account for yet another meaning for the last line. They stated
that the Mexican Army was about to cross the Rio Grande for the
first time since the US-Spanish Wars, to participate in the
relief effort in Louisiana/Mississippi.
*
It this happens, line 4 would become a very true statement, as an
area once French would be surrounded by Spaniards after the
flooding of that former French territory. And it would indeed
happen on a year when Saturn has just left the servitude of
Cancer (line 1).
*
So, maybe, just maybe, V-87 is indeed a reference to 2005 and to
what happens in former French Louisiana.
*
Have a nice day, folks!
*
Claude Latrémouille
http://web.ncf.ca/cj559
*
=== ===
=== CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
===========================
--
*** ** ***
C L A U D E L A T R E M O U I L L E
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
02 Sep 2005 10:14:16 PM |
|
|
On 2 Sep 2005 03:03:18 -0700, "Eagal" <cjspub@cnmnetwork.com> wrote:
SATURN COMES OUT OF BONDAGE,
FRENCH TERRITORY INUNDATED
The recent destruction of New Orleans by the powerful hurricane named
Katrina is a national tragedy, which also struck me personally. Though
I'd only been to the city once as a child, it was where my parents
met, and many family members lived there, some just returned from a
visit; those who survive are sure their homes are lost, others may not
have made it. Many of those who remained have been said to have
"chosen" to do so, while in fact they were trapped since public
transportation was unavailable a couple days before the storm struck,
and poverty was widespread. The response seems hampered by lack of
local National Guards and rescue equipment. Anarchy has marked the
aftermath, and the flood waters are certain to be toxic (due in part to
oil refineries in the area). Relating the calamity to some verse seems
particularly futile if it leads nowhere, but demonstrating this
historic catastrophe is part of the prophecies seems obligatory after
my other post-mortems.
Drawing up a chart using 2am Monday CDT 29 August 2005 showed the Moon
with Vesta at the Ascendant, but this relied on 2am precisely, which
was somewhat arbitrary: the levee failure occurred after the storm
passed the city. Neptune in retrograde is still in the midst of
Aquarius, a condition related to II.78 for the Sumatran Tsunami, but
this event does not fit that quatrain (Neptune will remain in Aquarius
for a few more years). Whether VI.90's stinking disgrace associated
with Neptune has been fulfilled is doubtful.
Neither could this tragedy comprise the unhappy hour or bad time of
IV.72, which bears the encoded chronology of 19 February. And it is
unlikely to have anything to do with the Adriatic wreckage of II.86 I
projected after the Egyptian bombings. The swamp reference of IX.29
may not fit for the bayou wetlands, calling for "new fire" which is
not a clever enough phrase for the global warming many suspect gave
Katrina more power via 90-degree water in the Gulf of Mexico.
Then I considered something more simple, like III.51 line 3 -
Ceux d'Orleans voudront leur chef remettre
Those of Orleans will want to replace their chief
Dropping the "New" identification, this could name the city, and
encapsulate the argument many have been making that the project to
strengthen the levees was underfunded by the Bush administration,
citing the Iraq war and tax cuts. It is very difficult to relate the
rest of this verse to the incident however: except that 29 August is
the feastday of St. Sabina of Troyes, a town mentioned in the
following, final line.
Shaped like a crescent, New Orleans was nicknamed the Crescent City,
though mentions of a crescent in Nostradamian verse are usually related
to a lunar phase or Islamic symbolism. X.95's relowering of the
crescent thus appeared a possibility, with its final line (about those
of Friday-the Muslim Sabbath--having their wings clipped) maybe even
relating to the subsequent stampede of Shi'ite pilgrims in Iraq off a
bridge which killed nearly a thousand (apparently instigated by
security forces shouting about bombs and terrorists to move the crowd
along, akin to yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater). This
interpretation requires Katrina to be the powerful "King"
subjugating the South (Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi), which seems
belied by the feminine nomenclature.
The major saintly commemoration of 29 August is for the beheading of
St. John the Baptist; along with Troyes, a connection can be made with
Autun, a town which also figures in the quatrains, but not in an
appropriate context.
Finally, V.87 came to mind, with its prediction of flooding -
L'an que Saturne hors de servage
Au franc terroir sera d'eau inondé;
De sang Troyen sera son marriage,
Et sera sûr d'Espagnols circundé.
The year that Saturn is out of bondage
French territory will be by water inundated;
Of Troyen blood will be his marriage,
And by Westerners will be safely barricaded.
I kept "Troyen" as is, rather than convert it to Trojan, to show
similarity with Troyes.
New Orleans was part of the Louisiana purchase of territory belonging
to France, and remained under Napoleonic code.
It should be noted that Saturn entered Leo 16 July 2005, leaving its
"bondage" or servitude under Cancer (which the ringed planet had
entered in June 2003). This Saturn transition was only about six weeks
before the flooding of New Orleans. Line 3 notes the marriage of the
flooding and the Saturn transition will be marked by something
"Troyen," i.e., the feastday of St. Sabina of Troyes. Sabina was
the sister of St. Sabinian: she sought her missing brother in Troyes,
France, but he was already dead and being venerated - she died soon
after, c. 275.
Without hinting towards another event on the horizon, the verse
concludes by declaring the people of the Western land where this occurs
will simply surround the area for safety, suggesting New Orleans will
remain lost rather than being rebuilt, as it was below sea level
between three large bodies of water, relying on pumps for drainage.
Eagal
Hahahah, I somehow knew someone would twist a quacktrain around to
suit the N.O. disaster
.
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| User: "Eagal" |
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| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
02 Sep 2005 08:19:33 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Hahahah, I somehow knew someone would twist a quacktrain around to
suit the N.O. disaster
Yes, I read your "challenge," but I only respond to messages on threads
I start. Show me how I "twisted" something around. It is common
knowledge that what looks like Spain in the verses actually means a
western land.
Doing post-mortems and postulations is what I've always done on this
ng.
Some of my results have exceeded coincidence: you might try searching
for my article "Major Occurrences Reviewed Esoterically."
BTW, Claude uses anagrams & Jean considers most of the fulfillments in
the past.
I've read your posts, and, like most of the offerings on this ng, I
think they are better suited to the political ngs, of which there are
many. Why are you even posting on the Nostradamian ng if your only
interest is in debunking things you apparently don't comprehend?
Of course a major event like this *should* be included in the
prophecies, and I have shown several ways in which it could be; all you
have done is express disbelief without erudition. And Dr Turi DID
publicly announce there would be a major evacuation in the US circa 29
August weeks before anyone was talking about Katrina and New Orleans.
Does it disturb you that some people can know about future events of
which you are ignorant? I see it as an opportunity to learn more, not
deride the concept.
.
|
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| User: "Claude Latremouille" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
04 Sep 2005 01:44:44 PM |
|
|
On 2 Sep 2005 18:19:33 -0700, "Eagal" <cjspub@cnmnetwork.com>
wrote in part:
*
BTW, Claude uses anagrams & Jean considers most of the fulfillments in
the past.
*
Perhaps something had escaped your attention. For 25 years, I
have studied Nostradamus' prophecies *as is*, no anagrams ma'am.
It is *that* study which led me to the anagrams, not the other
way around.
*
[...]
*
Of course a major event like this *should* be included in the
prophecies, [...]
*
Major? I'll tell you about so-called 'major' events which have
not even reached the bottom of American consciousness and which
are not referred to in Nostradamus' prophecies.
*
It is the idiot from San Diego who was complaining the other day
about a few puny earthquakes hitting his area which prompted this
comment:
*
DATE-(UTC)-TIME LAT LON DEP MAG Q COMMENTS
yy/mm/dd hh:mm:ss deg. deg. km
05/08/31 15:35:37 33.19N 115.60W 5.1 3.6M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/08/31 16:18:45 33.19N 115.60W 11.2 3.4M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/08/31 22:50:24 33.19N 115.61W 3.1 4.5M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/08/31 23:07:16 33.18N 115.62W 4.5 4.1M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/08/31 23:27:32 33.19N 115.58W 2.2 4.3M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/08/31 23:32:11 33.19N 115.60W 3.6 4.5M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/09/01 13:48:24 33.18N 115.62W 4.1 3.5M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/09/01 13:50:09 33.16N 115.64W 8.6 3.5M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/09/01 13:50:20 33.18N 115.63W 0.0 4.4M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/09/02 01:27:19 33.16N 115.64W 9.7 5.1M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/09/02 01:42:37 33.18N 115.63W 3.6 2.8M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/09/02 01:54:12 33.15N 115.64W 6.2 2.8M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/09/02 02:46:35 33.15N 115.65W 4.7 3.7M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/09/02 03:46:48 33.15N 115.65W 7.2 3.2M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
05/09/02 06:44:27 33.18N 115.61W 5.6 3.3M SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
*
Once upon a time, in July 1976, an earthquake hit the city of
Tangshan, China, killing about 830,000 people. Next time you talk
about a 'major' event, remember Tangshan. Nobody else does.
*
"...*should* be included in the prophecies..." Well, perhaps, or
perhaps not.If you can find a link between hurricane Katrina and
one of the various circumstances leading to the unintended
destruction of Paris, yes, perhaps it should be included in
Nostradamus' Prophecy.
*
A short list of these: a mistake leading to many deaths; an event
happening on August 13; an event leading to retaliation against
an attack upon the US; an event involving a missile, or a
thermonuclear weapon; friendly fire; an event happening after due
warning was given but left unheeded; etc.
*
Of course, I could always brag about the August 29 date for
Katrina hitting the Louisiana/Mississippi coast (I was born on
August 29, you see), but it would not be very convincing. :-)
*
Have a nice day, folks!
*
Claude Latrémouille
http://web.ncf.ca/cj559
*
=== ===
=== CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
===========================
--
*** ** ***
C L A U D E L A T R E M O U I L L E
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "Eagal" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
08 Sep 2005 06:26:36 AM |
|
|
Sorry, I did not mean to characterize your work as exclusively
employing anagrams.
Despite the voluminous nature of these prophetic writings, *every*
major event could be not be encoded in them: I have proposed that there
are periods of concentrated fulfillments, and other times when
important events simply are not covered at all. The X.72 quatrain
including the year 1999 I proposed as announcing a period in which N.
was intensely interested, and I believe the US is considered pivotal
during this time.
Specific conclusions are difficult to discern, and my own theories
rarely coincide with other people's. The future dates I have derived
so far I would rather not discuss too much before they arrive (and I
have admitted when I've been wrong after some have passed), so as to
avoid to some extent the accusation that they become self-fulfilling.
Even when I can be said to have determined a critical date beforehand
(as with the 1 February 2003 Columbia shuttle re-entry disintegration),
my presumptions about what the text actually portends is often quite
erroneous.
.
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| User: "Claude Latremouille" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
08 Sep 2005 01:03:40 PM |
|
|
On 8 Sep 2005 04:26:36 -0700, "Eagal" <cjspub@cnmnetwork.com>
referred to his earlier characterization of my work:
*
BTW, Claude uses anagrams & Jean considers most of the fulfillments in
the past.
*
To which I had responded:
*
Perhaps something had escaped your attention. For 25 years, I
have studied Nostradamus' prophecies *as is*, no anagrams ma'am.
It is *that* study which led me to the anagrams, not the other
way around.
*
About which he added:
*
Sorry, I did not mean to characterize your work as exclusively
employing anagrams.
*
Now that we have this out of the way, let's get back at New Orleans
*
Despite the voluminous nature of these prophetic writings, *every*
major event could be not be encoded in them: I have proposed that there
are periods of concentrated fulfillments, and other times when
important events simply are not covered at all. The X.72 quatrain
including the year 1999 I proposed as announcing a period in which N.
was intensely interested, and I believe the US is considered pivotal
during this time.
*
Let's take this, one item at a time:
*
Despite the voluminous nature of these prophetic writings, *every*
major event could be not be encoded in them:
*
Agreed.
*
I have proposed that there
are periods of concentrated fulfillments, and other times when
important events simply are not covered at all.
*
Agreed.
*
The X.72 quatrain
including the year 1999 I proposed as announcing a period in which N.
was intensely interested, and I believe the US is considered pivotal
during this time.
*
Agreed and here is why:
*
Quatrain X-72 refers to 1999. In addition to the various events
vaguely refereed to in the published text (the August 11, 1999
solar eclipse, the war before the eclipse, the war after the
eclipse, the death of the Count of Paris and the wedding of his
grandson), 1999 is indeed pivotal for Nostradamus, as it is the
year during which his decyphered prophecy is published for the
first time.
*
Although this appears to be tooting my horn once more, I can only
say that it is a fact that my book was published in 1999. And
this was not done by design, as I had definitely intended to
publish it long before (at first in 1996, but it was not ready
then; in 1997, but my would-be publisher chickened out then; in
1998, when I discovered that Nostradamus' prose was also
encyphered, which meant that I still had to decypher the two
Letters).
*
The reason why Nostradamus is interested in the period 1999-2017
is that the same Saros triggers two total eclipses of the Sun.
The first, on August 11, 1999, the second on August 21, 2017.
What is fascinating is that Nostradamus realized that both the
unintended target of the missile launched on August 13, 2017, and
the launching point of this missile are indicated by the path of
totality of these two eclipses.
*
If you look at the trajectory of a missile launched from the US
mainland and hitting Paris (by mistake) you will see that the
path of totality of the 1999 eclipse follows in part very closely
the path of such a missile. And if you look at the US mainland
from where the missile is launched, you will see that the path of
totality of the 2017 eclipse covers that US ground.
*
That's why Nostradamus is interested in the 1999 eclipse in X-72.
*
As to the last part of your comment above:
*
and I believe the US is considered pivotal
during this time.
*
Agreed, and here is why:
*
On May 7, 1999, the US unintentionally bombs the Embassy of the
People's Republic of China in Belgrade. Nostradamus uses this
stupid mistake of the CIA to indicate that the US can indeed make
targeting errors. As Paris is nuked as a result of a targeting
error (of a different kind), Nostradamus makes the connection
between the two.
*
As to the unintended nuking of Paris on August 13, 2017,
Nostradamus knows that the very same US military is responsible
for this snafu, the result of a revenge of the US upon China
where her 79 male diplomats have just all been slaughtered on
Tienanmen Square. Nostradamus is also interested in what the US
does when attacked. Pearl Harbor produces... Hiroshima and
Nagasaki. September 11 produces Afghanistan, Irak, etc. And
Peking produces... Paris, by mistake.
*
Specific conclusions are difficult to discern, and my own theories
rarely coincide with other people's. The future dates I have derived
so far I would rather not discuss too much before they arrive (and I
have admitted when I've been wrong after some have passed), so as to
avoid to some extent the accusation that they become self-fulfilling.
Even when I can be said to have determined a critical date beforehand
(as with the 1 February 2003 Columbia shuttle re-entry disintegration),
my presumptions about what the text actually portends is often quite
erroneous.
*
Let's unpack this:
*
Specific conclusions are difficult to discern,
*
Agreed. Unless one decyphers the text to confirm its vague
meaning, there is no other objective way of definitely ascribing
a particular prophetic statement to a particular event.
*
my own theories
rarely coincide with other people's.
*
Which does not make your views necessarily wrong. Keeping score
on various meanings ascribed by various authors is a silly
exercise, as these meanings either are all wrong, or only one of
these meanings is 'correct'.
*
About future dates, if you don't publish them in advance, nobody
shall believe that you got them right beforehand. Hell, nobody
believes them even if you do publish them in advance! Which
produces 3,000,000 dead in Paris in August 2017.
*
Have a nice day, folks!
*
Claude Latrémouille
http://web.ncf.ca/cj559
*
=== ===
=== CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
===========================
--
*** ** ***
C L A U D E L A T R E M O U I L L E
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "Eagal" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
09 Sep 2005 06:35:56 AM |
|
|
Interesting theory, considering total solar eclipses on the same saros
cycle. My own conclusions regarding X.72, as stated prior, will be
rehashed in my Psalms project. As to the path of totality of the 1999
eclipse, which crossed the Black Sea, I have related it to the "King"
of V.54, portending Byzantium/ Constantinople/ Istanbul becoming bloody
(mid-August quake, a few days after the eclipse) through his
metaphorical rod (the line itself). I wonder what would be the
repercussions of the scenario you have laid out, since France is
unlikely to retaliate, especially with your explanation that it would
be an accident.
I have posted about dates still in the future on this ng, so they are
archived: I just don't want to keep mentioning them for the reasons
stated. There seems to be more at stake with these prophecies than
saving lives - I think N. wants to affect ideologies, and thereby
destiny in a more subtle sense. Take for example my comment that VI.90
line 1 could regard the stagnant filth in which New Orleans is now
immersed: line 2 says after the deed there will be congratulations -
many are mocking Bush's laudatory comment to the head of FEMA about
having done "a heck of a job." Brown's credentials are being
questioned, comparisons are being made with the generous response to
Florida's hurricanes in the 2004 election year, a FEMA worker from the
Clinton era said the idea of requiring state and local officials to
provide detailed requests during a catastrophe after having declared a
state of emergency (there was even a false statement about a governor
*not* having asked for federal aid) is absurd, since they had
contingencies worked out at the local level months ahead of disasters.
The apparent decision to keep supplies from entering the area in the
days after the levee breach, for fear of inciting riots or hindering
evacuation, is a novel approach to disaster relief to say the least.
Neptune (still in Aquarius) is blamed, but there is an ironic tone, as
if to say the true fault lies not in the stars. Problems with FEMA
continue to be reported in this situation. Whether this incident will
culminate in Bush's resignation next year or so (the supposed topic of
IX.29 line 2), as was postulated when his 2004 mandate was predicted
prior to that election, remains to be seen. I'd rather not project
very far into the future: when I determined the Winter Solstice of 2014
fits the Sun-Saturn condition from Preface paragraph 25, it was
demonstrated that was the earliest time it could be applied when using
the best definitive interpretation. I am still trying to find
information that might illuminate Dr Turi's 26 September date.
.
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| User: "Eagal" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
09 Sep 2005 08:33:59 AM |
|
|
I am still trying to find
information that might illuminate Dr Turi's 26 September date.
Following up on this so far, I would take Turi up on his comment that
he could be a day off either way: 25 September lends itself better to
this analysis. First, that is the feastday of St. Lupus of Lyons, a
town which figures prominently in several verses: II.85 line 1's old
full beard under a strict statute sounds like OBL - the last line
describes warlike noise in the sky and a sea reddened (presumably by
blood); VIII.3, whose first two lines were related to the Columbia
burn-up, concludes with Lyons numbed by grief (likely a separate
incident); and VIII.34's final line begins with Lyon, the verse
suggesting a massive slaughter, perhaps by deluge and fire, involving
seven million...
I also noticed Ceres will enter Sagittarius 25 September: this large
asteroid has already been proposed as "la grande gousse" of III.75 line
3 which accompanies the onset of a very great plague. Finding a clear
intersection of these prophecies may be the wrong approach, but perhaps
through closer examination something plausible might emerge.
.
|
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| User: "Claude Latremouille" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
10 Sep 2005 11:47:04 AM |
|
|
On 9 Sep 2005 04:35:56 -0700, "Eagal" <cjspub@cnmnetwork.com>
wrote in part about the circumstances of the unintended
destruction of Paris:
*
Interesting theory, considering total solar eclipses on the same saros
cycle. My own conclusions regarding X.72, as stated prior, will be
rehashed in my Psalms project. As to the path of totality of the 1999
eclipse, which crossed the Black Sea, I have related it to the "King"
of V.54, portending Byzantium/ Constantinople/ Istanbul becoming bloody
(mid-August quake, a few days after the eclipse) through his
metaphorical rod (the line itself). I wonder what would be the
repercussions of the scenario you have laid out, since France is
unlikely to retaliate, especially with your explanation that it would
be an accident.
*
The earlier part of the path of totality is the one (near Paris
and coming from the North-West) to which I was referring. The
earthquake in Turkey, shortly after that eclipse, had not escaped
my attention; but that being an obvious astrological link, not a
Nostradamus link (in X-72, at least), I have attempted not to mix
astrology with Nostradamian texts. In X-72, there is no reference
to Turkey at all. Therefore, even though I had noticed a
connection between the later part of the path of totality of that
same eclipse and the Turkish earthquake, I never mentioned it in
the context of Nostradamian studies.
*
As to your last comment about the Paris event:
*
I wonder what would be the
repercussions of the scenario you have laid out, since France is
unlikely to retaliate, especially with your explanation that it would
be an accident.
*
Unless I am mistaken, you had already made a very similar comment
quite some time ago. So as not to repeat myself, I shall only
mention that there shall not be any retaliatory move by France,
as the nuking of Paris was unintended, but there is at least one
instance where the decyphered text states that the President of
France shall ask that the death penalty be applied to the young
and stupid soldier responsible for the destruction of Paris.
*
A comment about your general approach to Nostradamus: if you keep
multiplying references to various texts in order to explain any
or all of them, you might end up looking like a slippery snake
avoiding capture, attempting to explain A by quoting B, and
explaining B by quoting C.
*
Here, to explain V-87 and its possible connection with Louisiana
and hurricane Katrina, you have referred in succession to no less
than three different quatrains, III-51, X-95 and of course V-87.
*
That method of using a very obscure text to explain another very
obscure text to explain a third very obscure text is not very
satisfactory, in my view, even if one of those might very well be
a correct match.
*
It ends up being a construction of what you want to find, using
blocks taken from the ruins of different buildings. I am sure
that one can take words from hundreds of different texts by
Nostradamus and end up with a magnificent statement about almost
anything. And without using anagrams! :-)
*
Have a nice day, folks!
*
Claude Latrémouille
http://web.ncf.ca/cj559
*
=== ===
=== CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
===========================
--
*** ** ***
C L A U D E L A T R E M O U I L L E
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "Eagal" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
12 Sep 2005 07:42:36 PM |
|
|
I have nothing against using anagrams, I did myself with NORLARIS, I
think it's especially valid when the word is all caps. I flipped a
letter to get US Map from Mabus, I transfer words to sound-alikes in
multiple languages. And I'm only looking for one conclusive
fulfillment to each event being predicted: if I ever used the same
verse twice the earlier theory was being rejected in favor of a better
one. Whether I change my interpretation is not germane to whether one
is correct. If multiple references to a single event are found, they
are all followed; making the proper cross-references is essential to
gleaning as much information about future events as can be obtained.
I didn't go back to III.51's first half, but made the case for the
second. I gave a way to look at X.95 being about both the loss of the
Crescent City and the Islamic pilgrims falling from the bridge, while
admitting the powerful hurricane would be King Katrina. I explained
how V.87 described the New Orleans flooding and gave timing cues. And
you left out VI.90...
Anyway, here was my prepared message that I hope demonstrates that my
technique is not haphazard: there seem to be threads of fulfillment
twisting back and forth throughout the quatrains intended for this
particularly active period.
In further follow-up to the 25 September date, now that a tape has been
released threatening both Los Angeles and Melbourne specifically,
testing these for location missing from Turi's prediction is
possible. Looking at II.85 more closely -
Le vieux pleine barbe sous le statut severe
=C0 Lyons fait dessus l'Aigle Celtique
Le petit grand trop outr=E9 persevere
Bruit d'arme au ciel, mer rouge Ligustique
The old full beard under statute severe
At Lyons by Celtic Eagle advantage made
The great little one will too far persevere
Noise of arms in the sky, Ligurian sea red
Since line 1 describes OBL, this seems to predict an al-Qaeda
operation. The potential confirmation sought for 25 September 2005
exists in lines 2 & 3: Lyons, for St. Lupus' 25 September feastday,
combined with the great little one, Ceres, the largest asteroid, moving
into Sagittarius (24 September 2005 4am EDT) after over 9 months in
Scorpio (since 11 December 2004). The linking of the two concepts
makes fulfillment possible.
Here it should be mentioned that the recent Cairo bombings were
perceived to have a prediction in the next quatrain's latter portion:
the first part of II.86 was determined to not have transpired, however
its theme is similar to the cataclysmic final line of the prior verse.
Naufrage =E0 classe pr=E8s d'onde Hadriatique
La terre tremble =E9mue sus l'air en terre mis
Fleet in wreckage near the Adriatic wave
The earth trembles, stirred up over the air set on land
The Ligurian and Adriatic are on respective western and eastern Italian
shores. It is highly unlikely these are literal geographic sites for
the predicted events: it could be that the Genoan coast is being
compared to that of Los Angeles; and the Adriatic bears some similarity
to the appearance of Melbourne's situation.
A further step into this Italian confusion is made in the yet-unused
latter part of VIII.3, whose first portion was related to the Columbia
shuttle re-entry tragedy (Nancy's patron saint has 1 February
feastday).
Dedans Turin seront ards les premiers
Lorsque de deuil Lyon sera transi
Within Turin the first ones will be burnt
When Lyons will be numbed grief
Rather than Turin (Torino) bearing a warning for northern Italy, I
looked at what is in Taurus. 25 September the only planet in Taurus
will be Mars - the suggestion may be that Mars will be conjunct
Ascendant at the precise time the first part of a double attack occurs.
The calculation for the two locations would be 9:20pm PDT and 11:25pm
for Melbourne. The graphic wording of the predictions requires no
further interpretation.
I would not be giving this conjecture so much attention had it not been
for Dr Turi's correct prediction regarding the late August evacuation.
Eagal
.
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| User: "Claude Latremouille" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
14 Sep 2005 08:38:49 AM |
|
|
On 12 Sep 2005 17:42:36 -0700, "Eagal" <cjspub@cnmnetwork.com>
wrote in part:
*
I have nothing against using anagrams, I did myself with NORLARIS, I
think it's especially valid when the word is all caps.
*
Well, then, if you truly are interested in anagrams and if you
truly find them valid especially when the word is all caps, you
might be interested in taking the first original edition of the
Prophecies (the 1555 Bonhomme edition), making a list of all
words in small caps found in its 353 quatrains, and you will
truly find a Nostradamus at his best.
*
The first thing you will do -- if you truly are interested -- is
to count them; and you will have a surprize: there are 13 such
words, plus the number 13 in Roman numerals. So, the number 13 is
very much in evidence.
*
The next thing you will do is place them side by side, and
consider them to form a complete, hidden sentence in good French.
Solving that long cryptic anagram, you will discover Nostradamus'
secret about the unintended destruction of Paris.
*
Then, you will find something missing in that decyphered text.
So, you will go back to the original and check if you have not
forgotten anything. And you will realize that the first word of
these four centuries are also in small caps. So you will add
these four words to the soup, and discover that the group now
forms 17 words. (The two numbers 13 and 17 are now in evidence.)
*
And Nostradamus' fully decyphered secret speaks, as always, of
the circumstances of the unintended destruction of Paris, on
Sunday, August 13, 2017, at 3:53 a.m.
*
The 353 quatrains in that edition point to that time, 3:53 a.m.
*
The hidden text and how it was discovered can be found at pp.
192-193 in my book, if you truly are interested, that is.
*
Have a nice day, folks!
*
Claude Latrémouille
http://web.ncf.ca/cj559
*
=== ===
=== CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
===========================
--
*** ** ***
C L A U D E L A T R E M O U I L L E
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "Eagal" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
19 Sep 2005 07:08:28 PM |
|
|
Well, this anagram theory is interesting, but of course the more words
you add in, the more possible solutions there are: I'm not casting
aspersions on it, but neither am I prepared to corroborate it.
Your observation that Mexican armed forces returned to US soil for
Katrina relief to fulfill V.87 line 4 seems potentially valid (since it
is somewhat historical), although they too aren't Spanish per se, and I
doubt they actually surrounded New Orleans. I'll probably continue to
read Spain as code for the US where it appears suitable, despite your
comments about what is relatively western and whether hesperique is
included; the cryptic location Aquilon is more unambiguously the US (I
hope we can agree on that, at least).
As to the 25 September date and Turi, his prediction was for another
evacuation, which is consistent with another hurricane (parts of
Florida are now being evacuated [a week early] for tropical storm
Rita), while the Lyons event N. predicts appears to be terrorist
related (evacuation unlikely, since such attacks come without clear
warning). Perhaps I was being misled by the threatening videotape
regarding Los Angeles and Melbourne, substituting them too easily for
Ligurian and Adriatic locations; but if terrorists announce targets, it
seems imprudent to ignore that. Obtaining the precise time, location,
and type of event prior to fulfillment is virtually impossible: even
when I correctly did so with the EgyptAir 990 crash, it was with a
false presumption about what would be so disturbing off the NYC coast.
I presume a pair of attacks in the springtime in the US, they occur in
the Middle East; I expect a problem with a Long Island ion collider, we
get the 9-11 attacks. If the Lyons-Ceres event manifests in Turi's
timeframe but as some terrorist activity, the hints are difficult to
develop into a scenario. I've made the case before that III.75
concerns a plague associated with Ceres, and this appears consistent
with a sea becoming reddened by blood in II.85; but VIII.3 links Lyons
with people being burned. The phrase "noise of arms in the sky" does
not necessarily imply the source is weaponry, just that it would be
that loud: and there's the possibility that N. was simply referring
back to the planes crashing into the WTC to link that US attack with a
later one.
Events should be contemplated in tandem with the prophecies to derive
anything profound. Again, in VI.90, after apparently mocking the
congratulations GWB bestowed on Brown (who has been removed as head of
FEMA, but was not delegated responsibility by Homeland Security chief
Chertoff for 36 to 72 hours after federal assistance was promised), the
ill-fatedness is attributed to an inability to persuade Neptune to
pacifism - a condition one might ascribe to Bush himself in regards to
Iraq.
.
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| User: "Claude Latremouille" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
20 Sep 2005 03:05:39 AM |
|
|
On 19 Sep 2005 17:08:28 -0700, "Eagal" <cjspub@cnmnetwork.com>
wrote in part:
*
Well, this anagram theory is interesting, but of course the more words
you add in, the more possible solutions there are: I'm not casting
aspersions on it, but neither am I prepared to corroborate it.
*
You are quite right in pointing out that "...the more words you
add in, the more possible solutions there are:..."
*
Which is why the example I gave you was the worst possible
example I could ever give anyone, had I intended it to be used as
a tool to convince anyone of the encyphered nature of
Nostradamus' texts. The only reason I gave it to you was that...
you asked for it, as you had referred to words in small caps in
Nostradamus' texts being -- for the most part -- anagrams.
*
A much better illustration of how Nostradamus encyphered his
texts is to use a very well known and very short text invented by
Nostradamus to demonstrate the point, his invented pen name.
*
As you know, his real name was MICHEL DE NOSTREDAME. It contains
18 letters. Not very useful for the purpose of drawing attention
to year 2017. A much better way to do it is to create a group of
17 letters which appear to be his name in Latin (it is not his
name in Latin) but does hide his Oracle in successive layers.
Thus:
*
----- M I C H E L N O S T R A D A M U S
----- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
*
----- E N A O U S T M M D I X S E P T --------------- A C H L R
----- A P A R I S V N A T O M E D E L U S --------------- C H M
----- E S T L A M O R T D E L A C I T E ------------- H M N S U
*
Or, in plain French: « En Aoust MM Dix-Sept, à Paris, vn Atome de
l'U S est la Mort de la Cité ! »
*
Or, in English: In August Two Thousand and Seventeen, in Paris,
an Atom from the U S is the Death of the City!
*
The above involving only 17 letters, using both steganography
(the hiding of a text in plain sight) and polygraphy (the hiding
of many texts within the very same text), and using an invented
word, NOSTRADAMUS, ought to allow its reader to see the very real
possibility that Nostradamus' texts are encyphered in the very
same manner everywhere.
*
This is not, of course, proof that this hidden text is a true
Oracle by Nostradamus; that proof shall come at 3:53 a.m., on
Sunday, August 13, 2017, when Paris is destroyed by mistake.
*
Have a nice day, folks!
*
Claude Latrémouille
http://web.ncf.ca/cj559
*
=== ===
=== CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
===========================
--
*** ** ***
C L A U D E L A T R E M O U I L L E
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "Eagal" |
|
| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
22 Sep 2005 05:39:38 AM |
|
|
My Saturnin theory set for Winter Solstice 2014 does not preclude your
prediction of Paris being destroyed in 2017; certainly the fate of that
city should be of great interest to the seer. Hogue made a radio
appearence recently in which he presumed any mention of a "great city"
could mean Paris in the verses; I believe he also related III.17 line 2
to the 11 August 1999 eclipse (if that is so, I cannot concur).
I can't say I comprehend how you derived your three-line anagram, but
what you propose could happen. I'm not much for numerology either,
especially when they alternately use Chaldean alphabets and keep
summing various numerical datum. I try to keep things rather simple:
NORLARIS could be LORRAINS, but that wouldn't be as useful as SOLARIAN
(switching an R to A). MENDOSVS has been deciphered (perhaps
pointlessly) as VENDOME'S, but I haven't gotten a better anagram - just
noted the Latin translation as faulty or erroneous. I only have one
meaning for Mabus, and it's not a person (or several possible people),
much less the Antichrist. There can be many ways of using the writings
which could be valid, but I have to stick to what makes sense to me. I
don't go along when people talk about a King of Terror and Mongol King
from X.72: I've developed an entirely different train of thought.
As for Turi, the "superhurricane" Rita is poised to strike Galveston
and Houston roughly on his 26 September schedule: this event may not
fit the Lyons conjecture - perhaps Katrina initiated a trend whose
repetition is not as clearly prophesied. While Turi claims to be using
Nostradamian techniques, he said his predictions are not derived from
the quatrains themselves. His astrological references were to the
positions of planets (mostly slow-moving ones), not conjunctions or
configurations. He gave more dates in the near future: a powerful
earthquake or volcanic eruption (location unknown) in mid-October (when
the Moon conjuncts the Node), another potentially catastrophic
hurricane October 22-24 (when the Sun moves into Scorpio). Since he is
attributing the strong hurricanes to the influence of Uranus in Pisces,
he must be leaving something out of his calculations, since that is too
long a period for obtaining such precise dates. He claims a warning
about flying after the Full Moon was justified by the Jet Blue nose
landing gear mishap a few hours ago. Now the police announcement about
a lot of deaths for 8 September supposedly concerned New Orleans
officers committing suicide (I think there were two, one of whom lost
his home and family), unless it was the massive fatalities in New
Orleans. Turi says to watch out for the Lunar Node (normally in
retrograde) entering Pisces (where Uranus will still be) next June.
And he does not believe anything is happening outside of normal
cyclical patterns - of course, there could be great cycles marked by
massive cataclysms. While Turi's predictions have been too accurate to
dismiss the successes as flukes, he's also said some things I find
dubious. Nuclear holocaust cannot occur in Turi's thinking without a
certain planet entering Aquarius a long time hence (further on than
2017)...
Changes noted in Greenland tend to support theories of global warming;
having two hurricanes as strong as Katrina and Rita in a single year is
unprecedented for the US. I will continue to evaluate current events
as possibly fulfilling information in the quatrains, and project
incidents in the near future when plausible. So 25 September will be
considered for Lyons. While the burning of VIII.3 line 3 is not
consistent with a hurricane, the fiery concept reinforces the
association of the previous lines with the Columbia shuttle
disintegration, for which the Turin-Taurus connection could not be
made; the chronolgy intended by the word "when" is also in question,
since an event around the Lyons incident may be predicted rather than
one that is exactly simultaneous.
Eagal
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| User: "Eagal" |
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| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
22 Sep 2005 05:56:14 AM |
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I neglected to mention the troublesome Jet Blue landing occurred when
the Moon was conjuncting Mars in Taurus: there was a small fire as the
nose landing gear wheels, set in the wrong position, burned on the
runway - people within the aircraft could smell smoke, but under the
circumstances the landing was flawless. Whether this non-lethal event
was the topic of VIII.3 line 3 as prelude to the greater calamity posed
by Rita circa the 25 September Lyons date is difficult to conclusively
resolve.
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| User: "Eagal" |
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| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
22 Sep 2005 03:59:15 PM |
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I'll just elaborate a bit on this addendum --
I neglected to mention the troublesome Jet Blue landing occurred when
the Moon was conjuncting Mars in Taurus: there was a small fire as the
nose landing gear wheels, set in the wrong position, burned on the
runway - people within the aircraft could smell smoke, but under the
circumstances the landing was flawless. Whether this non-lethal event
was the topic of VIII.3 line 3 as prelude to the greater calamity posed
by Rita circa the 25 September Lyons date is difficult to conclusively
resolve.
The first part of VIII.3 (line 2 specifically) was taken as a
prediction of the Columbia shuttle disaster, an impaired aircraft whose
landing failed disastrously with much attention but little
apprehension. In line 3 the Jet Blue Flight 292 situation is the
topic, as the precursor to massive devastation from Hurricane Rita: the
Jet Blue aircraft was more noticeably impaired, and its completely
successful landing received similar attention due to intense
trepidation (thus, an ironic juxtaposition). I had already stated a
fulfillment of the Turin-Taurus element in this timeframe would ideally
consist of a notable conjunct with Mars in Taurus: this manifested with
the Moon-Mars conjunct, much more concrete than the local
Ascendant-Mars conjunct proposed when limiting the theory to the 25
September (feastday of St Lupus of Lyons) date. Rather than forseeing
the "first ones" burned as "premiers," N. apparently intended this to
mean the "front-parts" of the craft, as the nose landing gear was all
that was burnt.
II.85's strict statute for OBL probably means the period when he is
ostensibly being sought for punishment, not a reference to Islamic law.
And the noise of arms in the sky could be from Rita's fury.
Elsewhere, when the "Lyons wall" is mentioned, this is probably the
eye-wall of the hurricane, where the destructive winds are strongest.
Eagal
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| User: "Eagal" |
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| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
25 Sep 2005 06:35:05 AM |
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RITA, LYONS AND CERES
The landfall of Hurricane Rita perfectly coincided with Ceres movement
into Sagittarius, the latter on 24 September 2005 3:46am EDT; this
event is referred to by indicating the following day using the 25
September feastday for St Lupus of Lyons. VIII.3 tells us that Lyons
is numbed by bereavement, a subtle reference to the recent deaths by
drowning in New Orleans (otherwise not mentioned in that verse),
suggesting a de-sensitization has occurred affecting reaction to the
re-flooding of the city by excessive rainfall from Rita flowing over
weak levees.
The final line of II.85 has also been fulfilled by Rita's appearance,
providing the explosive noise in the sky simultaneous with the great
little one (Ceres, the largest asteroid) persevering too far to remain
in Scorpio (third line). The concluding passage about the Ligurian sea
being red is actually a description of the fetid swamp that has become
New Orleans, similar to the "stinking disgrace" of VI.90: the key
is that Ligurian is used as an adjective - "Ligustique,"
ligusticum, levisticum, lovage, a carminative (induces flatulence). It
simply means that the New Orleans floodwater, metaphorically red with
the blood of Katrina dead, smells like sewage at the time Rita arrives.
The Adriatic wave from II.86 should also be transformed into an
adjective, using Greek "Hadros," heavy. So hints for neither time
nor place for the wreck of a ship or fleet, just mention it is near a
bulky wave, when the earth trembles, stirred up over the air set on
land - this could describe another devastating swirling hurricane
spreading debris.
Lyons is used elsewhere, so more information may become available.
There remains the possibility that unforeseen repercussions to Rita
will play a role in future events.
Eagal
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| User: "Eagal" |
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| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
25 Sep 2005 10:09:35 AM |
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MORE OF THE RITA-LYONS CONNECTION
Associating Rita with Lyons for St Lupus' 25 September feastday seems
very illuminating...
II.83 (first 2 lines):
Le gros trafic d'un grand Lyon chang=E9
La plupart tourne en pristine ruine
The huge traffic for a great Lyons changed
Most turned into pristine ruin
Line 1 describes the large traffic jam leaving Houston (using the word
as in English) at Lyons (i.e., for Rita) changed (by making the
freeways one-way on both sides). Line 2 says the ruins were mostly
pristine, meaning few fatalities.
III.56 (second part):
De Paris, pont, Lyon mur, Montpellier
Depuis six cents et sept vingts trios pars
From Paris, bridge, Lyons wall, Mount-peeler
Between six hundred and seven twenty three pairs
From Paris, bridge (to the New Orleans French Quarter after Katrina -
a joke about an ungiven-but-oddly-appropriate gift), Lyons (eye-)wall
(of Rita), Mount-peeler / Between 600 and 7(00 dead), 23 pairs (of
chromosomes, humans). The approximate death toll is given for the
next, the ominous mountain-peeler.
III.93 (second part):
Tricast tiendra l'Annibalique ire
Lyon par change sera mal consol=E9
Troyes will hold the fury of Hannibal
Lyons for a change will be poor consolation
Tricast as Troyes (29 August, St Sabina) for Katrina (category 4),
holds the fury of Hannibal; the change at Lyons a poor consolation
since Rita was still a category 3.
IX.69 (second part):
Outre Lyon, Vien eux si grande gr=EAle
Langoult en terre n'en restera un tiers
Beyond Lyons, Vienne has very great hail for them
Lobster on land, not a third will remain
Again the next one seems much worse, encoded using Vienne.
IX.70:
Harnois tranchants dans les flambeaux caches
Dedans Lyon, le jour du Sacrement
Ceux de Vienne seront trestous hach=E9s
Par les cantons Latins Mascon ne ment
In torches hidden weapons sharp as tacks
The day of the Sacrament within Lyons
Those of Vienne will all be hacked
By the Latin cantons M=E2con isn't lyin'
Rita threatened as far west as Corpus Christi, which is the day of the
Sacrament. Again Vienne is given as the fatal successor to Lyons
(Rita), with a disturbing oath.
VIII.6 (first two lines):
Clart=E9 fulgure =E0 Lyon apparente
Luisant, print Malte, subit sera =E9teinte
Bright lightning apparent at Lyons
Shining, Malta taken, suddenly it will be extinguished
This Malta clue may tie-in with Vienne somehow, perhaps Vienne hints at
the time, Malta at the location (this may be pursued later).
N=2E confirms seeing a storm with impressive lightning for the Lyons
date.
Turi seems to link the next hurricane with the Sun's movement into
Scorpio 23 October; and his quake or eruption in mid-October with the
Moon-Node conjunct 16 October. =20
Eagal
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| User: "Eagal" |
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| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
26 Sep 2005 09:40:59 AM |
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While the connection between Rita and Lyons was firmly established in
my previous post, the analysis of III.56 line 3 was incorrect, being a
quatrain that should not be split but is out of sequence. Lines 2 and
3 overlap with the phrase about Paris --
Peste, tonnerre, et grele a fin de Mars
De Paris, pont, Lyon mur, Montpellier
Plague, thunder and hail at the end of Mars
In Paris, bridge, Lyons wall, Mountpeeler
At a Mars transition, or the end of a month of March, these things
might be affecting Paris.
The topic then shifts mid-line to a sequence of three events: "bridge"
for the Biloxi-Ocean Springs Bridge which was demolished by Katrina;
"Lyons wall" for the awaited landfall of Rita's eye-wall; and the third
may peel mountains, probably category 5.
As far as Vien, the sequence of hurricane names for this season
includes a Vince, after Stan and Tammy: this is only one letter short
for a perfect anagram starting with the proper two letters.
The Sun's movement into Scorpio in 2005 will be 23 October 1:30am CT
(the day DST ends), hours after the Sun conjuncts Jupiter, using Turi's
22-24 October for Vince's landfall (timing and location not yet
determined using verses).
The Moon-Node conjunct 16 October 10:30am PST, most likely time for
Turi's quake (or eruption), possibly for west coast.
Eagal
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| User: "Claude Latremouille" |
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| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
22 Sep 2005 11:41:31 AM |
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On 22 Sep 2005 03:39:38 -0700, "Eagal" <cjspub@cnmnetwork.com>
wrote about this:
*
A much better illustration of how Nostradamus encyphered his
texts is to use a very well known and very short text invented
by Nostradamus to demonstrate the point, his invented pen name.
*
As you know, his real name was MICHEL DE NOSTREDAME. It
contains 18 letters. Not very useful for the purpose of
drawing attention to year 2017. A much better way to do it is
to create a group of 17 letters which appear to be his name in
Latin (it is not his name in Latin) but does hide his Oracle in
successive layers. Thus:
*
----- M I C H E L N O S T R A D A M U S
----- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
*
----- E N A O U S T M M D I X S E P T --------------- A C H L R
----- A P A R I S V N A T O M E D E L U S --------------- C H M
----- E S T L A M O R T D E L A C I T E ------------- H M N S U
*
Or, in plain French: « En Aoust MM Dix-Sept, à Paris, vn Atome de
l'U S est la Mort de la Cité ! »
*
Or, in English: In August Two Thousand and Seventeen, in Paris,
an Atom from the U S is the Death of the City!
*
The above involving only 17 letters, using both steganography
(the hiding of a text in plain sight) and polygraphy (the
hiding of many texts within the very same text), and using an
invented word, NOSTRADAMUS, ought to allow its reader to see
the very real possibility that Nostradamus' texts are
encyphered in the very same manner everywhere.
*
This is not, of course, proof that this hidden text is a true
Oracle by Nostradamus; that proof shall come at 3:53 a.m., on
Sunday, August 13, 2017, when Paris is destroyed by mistake.
*
I can't say I comprehend how you derived your three-line anagram,
*
That was obvious from the start. So, let's have a Line-based
Cryptic Anagrams 101 Short Course:
*
1. Anagrams: They are words made up of all the letters from
another word. Example from Nostradamus: Rapis = Paris.
*
2. Cryptic Anagrams: They are words made up of all the letters
from another word except one letter. Example from Nostradamus:
CHYREN = HENRY, provided that the extra "C" is dropped.
*
3. Line-based Cryptic Anagrams: They are texts made up of all the
letters from a line of text published by Nostradamus, except one
letter per decyphered word in that hitherto hidden text. Example?
I already gave you an example:
*
M I C H E L N O S T R A D A M U S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
*
O R A C L (E) S U (R) M M D I (X) S E (P) T___H N A
8 11 12__3__6_____9 16_____1 15 13__2____17__5____10___4__7_14
*
This decyphered line announces the Oracle about 2017: "Oracle sur
MM Dix-Sept". What is the Oracle? Same 17 letters, same method:
*
(E) N__A__O__U__S (T) M__M__D__I (X) S__E (P) T____A__C__H__L__R
____7 12__8 16__9_____1 15 13__2____17__5____10___14__3__4__6_15
*
A (P) A R I S (V) N (A) T O M E D (E) L U S_____C__H__M
12___14 11__2__9_____7____10__8__1__5 13_____6 16 17_____3__4_15
*
E S (T)(L) A M O R (T) D (E) L A C I T (E) H M N S U
5__9_______12__1__8 11____13_____6 14__3__2 10_____4 15__7 17 16
*
The Oracle: "En Aoust MM Dix-Sept à Paris vn Atome de l'US est la
Mort de la Cité." Or, 'In August MM and Seventeen in Paris, an
Atom from the US is the Death of the City.'
*
That's how Nostradamus' hidden Oracle can be derived from the 17
letters of his invented nickname.
*
Have a nice day, folks!
*
Claude Latrémouille
http://web.ncf.ca/cj559
*
=== ===
=== CLAUDE LATRÉMOUILLE ===
===========================
--
*** ** ***
C L A U D E L A T R E M O U I L L E
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Louisiana's Other Orleans; Katrina |
03 Sep 2005 05:56:28 AM |
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On 2 Sep 2005 18:19:33 -0700, "Eagal" <cjspub@cnmnetwork.com> wrote:
DaarkSyde@Bushsucks.ca wrote:
Hahahah, I somehow knew someone would twist a quacktrain around to
suit the N.O. disaster
Yes, I read your "challenge," but I only respond to messages on threads
I start. Show me how I "twisted" something around. It is common
knowledge that what looks like Spain in the verses actually means a
western land.
Doing post-mortems and postulations is what I've always done on this
ng.
Some of my results have exceeded coincidence: you might try searching
for my article "Major Occurrences Reviewed Esoterically."
BTW, Claude uses anagrams & Jean considers most of the fulfillments in
the past.
I've read your posts, and, like most of the offerings on this ng, I
think they are better suited to the political ngs, of which there are
many. Why are you even posting on the Nostradamian ng if your only
interest is in debunking things you apparently don't comprehend?
Of course a major event like this *should* be included in the
prophecies, and I have shown several ways in which it could be; all you
have done is express disbelief without erudition. And Dr Turi DID
publicly announce there would be a major evacuation in the US circa 29
August weeks before anyone was talking about Katrina and New Orleans.
Does it disturb you that some people can know about future events of
which you are ignorant? I see it as an opportunity to learn more, not
deride the concept.
A little more perhaps?
THE NEW POPE:
BENEDICT XVI
What do Nostradamus
and St. Malachy's Prophecies
say about Him?
Friends,
Now that we have a new pope it is time to refresh interpretations of
Nostradamus' prophecy listed in my previous article The Next Pope.
The prophecy in question is Century 5 Quatrain 49 from the 16th
century seer's work "Les Propheties." It reads:
Nul de l'Espaigne mais de l'antique France,
Ne sera esleu pour le tremblant nacelle,
A l'ennemy sera faicte fiance,
Qui dans son regne sera peste cruelle.
Not from Spain but from ancient France,
Will be elected for the trembling ship [the bark of Peter],
He will make a promise to the enemy,
Who will cause great plague during his reign.
The Papal Conclave elected the late--and some would say "great"--John
Paul II's grand inquisitor of orthodox Catholic dogma, Cardinal Joseph
Ratzinger, on 19 April 2005 in a fourth ballot landslide. Either the
Holy Spirit or shrewd political maneuvering worked to isolate
progressive cardinals from picking their aged candidate for a
caretaker pope--Cardinal Martini. Instead the pope who would oversee
the pause before the next course taken for the Church will be the
staunch conservative Prelate of the Congregation of the Doctrine and
the Faith. He is the man who for the past 23 years was
unaffectionately known by dissenting priests as "Cardinal Panzer" or
John Paul's "rottweiler" enforcer of strict doctrine. The message of
the Conclave vote is clear. A shaky Holy See, has a new fisherman who
with unwavering hand they expect will keep the Catholic fold on a
straight and narrow dogmatic course as per the late pontiff's prayers.
Metaphorically speaking, this 265th successor to St. Peter, may be a
fisher of converts that throws back a majority of the errant catch if
they protest too much about his tightening grip on the net. More on
that later.
How does a German cardinal come "from Ancient France"?
With more prescient persuasion than one might think. It all depends on
whether Nostradamus intended us to take the cryptic statement in line
1 of the prophecy above as minimally specific or broad. For decades I
advanced one interpretation that line 1 targeted John Paul II, who was
born in Southwest Poland, which happened to be part of the frontiers
of French King Charlemagne's sprawling and ancient Frankish empire. In
my previous article I introduced a new and minimalist variant, posing
that the quatrain could be about John Paul's successor. He might be a
cardinal coming from the most smallest political boundary generally
accepted as the first and most ancient "French" kingdom: the region
surrounding Paris. Thus Nostradamus' habit of juxtaposing ancient
places for the advent of modern people has the cardinal's priestly
"habit" be that of an Archbishop of Paris, like Cardinal
Lustiger--long shot though I believed he would be.
As it turned out, Lustiger was not more than a ballot pusher in the
Conclave. And, as I said over seven years earlier in my book The Last
Pope, Cardinal Martini did turn out to be the best chance for the
progressives to take St. Peter's chair from another conservative
candidate. Martini was the only liberal to make a real run against
Cardinal Ratzinger at grabbing one of the holiest of brass rings in
Christendom--St. Peter's ring. Nevertheless it went to a Teutonic
cardinal born 78 years before in Marktl Am Inn, near Traunstein,
Germany.
Looking at this development in hindsight, you cannot get more "Ancient
France" than that. Here's why. As many of you have reminded me, the
new pope's birthplace is in the heart of what once was Charlemagne's
ancient Frankish Empire. The Franks are a Germanic tribe. Their
homeland ran along the west bank of the Rhine River, which is just a
short distance west from Ratzinger's birthplace in eastern Bavaria.
Even before Charlemagne's stretched his empire to the frontiers of
southwestern Poland, Bavaria was a Frankish kingdom ruled by Frankish
kings in Paris from as early as the mid 6th century, starting with
Clotaire I. Later, Ratzinger's homeland became again a part of a
unified "ancient" French Empire under the heir of Clotaire II,
Dagobert I, in the year 629. For two more centuries Bavaria slipped in
and out of French domination until Charlemagne in 787 incorporated
Ratzinger's homeland into his Carlolingian Empire for a longer time.
Not from Spain but from ancient France...
....comes a pope, cassocked and capped in one of Nostradamus' ways to
miter his point across time to us, with a classical reference to
geography.
Line 2 says this pope...
....Will be elected for the trembling ship [the bark of Peter]...
Here we have the double entendre describing the previous pope's
enfeeblement from Parkinson's disease, plus an allusion to the
enfeebled Church Ratzinger inherits. The new pope must shore up a
shaking Church suffering pederast sexual scandals, a decimation by old
age of the priesthood and a wholesale abandonment of European and
American Catholics. Some might add that the exodus is a direct result
of a rigid dogma defended and policed by John Paul's theological
"rottweiler" and successor for over two decades. Ratzinger as the new
Benedict XVI also inherits a priestly hierarchy that lost collegial
freedom under the autocratic Polish "Papa." Many Cardinals
believe--whether they lean to the left or right of late pope's
interpretation of theology--that John Paul's dictatorial reign was a
detriment to the church and had planted seeds for a future crisis.
What then might Nostradamus hint Pope Benedict will do? Line 3 says:
....He will make a promise to the enemy...
If we regard recent developments against the record of the man who is
now the new pope, the "enemy" is not outside of the Church but within.
The enemy is what Raztinger, the once and perhaps future inquisitor of
the faith, decried as the "dictatorship of relativism." In
layman's--or the laity's--terms, that means those Catholic priests or
lay followers who pick and choose those parts of Catholic teaching and
dogma that satisfy their temperament. The enemy of this new pope, is a
progressive or liberal interpretation of Vatican II reforms. Thus the
"promise" made to such an enemy could be the one Ratzinger delivered
while fresh in his new white cassock and cap of Benedict XVI. He
promised to be a more collegial and tolerant pope than his
predecessor. If this interpretation is correct, I would expect Pope
Benedict will be as much a uniter of his flock, as the American
President, G. W. Bush was a uniter for his. Look for Benedict to
divide his church between "blue" and "red" (progressive and
conservative) Catholics, especially in North America and Europe during
his relatively short reign.
The last line of the prophecy says that this pope makes a promise to
an enemy...
....Who will cause great plague during his reign.
If we take this line into the light of the present new pontificacy,
the great plague could be a schism in the Church. Moreover, it could
stand for some promise made for ecumenism by Benedict XVI towards the
Islamic world that falters when the war on terror widens. The
pestilence might even include a man-made "plague" coming from weapons
of mass destruction, either unleashed by the US or by her enemies in
the war on terror. Indeed Nostradamus often returns to the theme of
Rome's destruction by such weapons, as do other famous Catholic seers
of the past millennium.
Then again, the "plague" may be a coming pandemic in Ratiznger's rule
as pope. He is one of the oldest pontiffs to ever ascend St. Peter's
throne. Even if his pontificacy was short, there are disturbing
indications that the next pandemic may be with us within a year. The
CDC (The Center for Disease and Control) caution that a spread of
Chinese bird flu is imminent. Could this be the "great plague during
his reign"?
The syntax leans more to a plague of commission by the hands of a | | | |
