"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message

"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
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"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message

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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
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"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
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<snip>

the activities of the inquisition are well-documented. How
accurately I quote from Luke makes absolutely no difference to

brutal, savage barbarity of the inquisitors, woudln't you agree?

Do you have a deep psychological need to dwell in the past?

Not especially, I'm just applying the "Judge people by what they

done"

criteria. Christians have been repsonsible for far worse horrors

Muslims so far.

I think it's time for you to read the history of Islam. From the
beginning, forces of Islam have followed the command of their prophet
and have attempted to spread Islam around the world by force.

So no different to the history of Christianity then.

Much different. Seriously, you should read the history of Islam from
the beginning.

The Crusades were a response to the forceful spread of Islam.

LOL! That is an incredibly shallow, one dimensional view. The crusades

a response to teh power vacuum left by the collapse of the byzantine

Seriously, you should read the history of Islam.

In 1095, the Pope asked leaders of Western Europe to do something

the

slaughter of Byzantine Christains by Islamic forces. Here is a brief
introduction for you:

[quoting] Military expeditions, beginning in the late 11th century,
that were organized by Western Christians in response to centuries of
Muslim wars of expansion. [end quote]

More:
http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article?tocId=9361959

Why don't you spend more time denouncing the horrors that are

currently

perpetrated in the world in which we actually live?

The subject under discussion was whether mis-quoting Luke in any way

affects

the brutal reality of the inquisition.

No, the historical reality of the Inquisition is well documented, as
you said -- and I would never defend that historical brutality the way
you blindly defend the horrors of Islam

BZZZT. Hold it right there Stevei. Where have I "blindly defended the
horrors of Islam"? I am merely pointing out they are no different from

horrors of Christianity, and if you look at it in any kind of objective

Christianity has killed far more peopel so far.

I'm not so sure about that. You're trying to compare a secular
government (Nazi Germany) conducting the Holocaust

to a religious sharia government (Sudan) conducting genocide.

If you're going back to
the Crusades, that was a direct response to centuries Muslim wars of
conquest (you should really read about Islamic history from the
beginning).

Why don't seventh century to eleventh century Islamic
forces of conquest get blamed for the slaughters they committed during
the early spread of Islam by force?

That's not to say Islam won't catch up one day.

When the Crusades were started in response to Islamic slaughters of
Byzantine Christians, Islam was already way ahead. Really, you should
read the history of Islam -- from the beginning.

as perpetrated by Islamic
governments in TODAY'S world -- the world in which we actually live --
not a dreamworld, Tommy, the real world. Wake up.

Talking for dreamworlds, in whcih one does a post exist where I "defend

horrors of Islam"?

You know, everytime I have brought up the horrors of Islam that are
currently being perpetrated in TODAY'S world -- the world in which we
live -- you seem to have this urgent need to divert attention away
from things that are happening NOW by bringing up HISTORY

-- things
that happened HUNDREDS of YEARS AGO!!! You see, Tommy, we have a
problem in THIS world NOW -- TODAY!!! Yes, I understand there were
problems HUNDREDS of YEARS AGO, but your failure to focus on TODAY'S
HORRORS -- amounts to defense (by omission) in my opinion.

It is unfair to blame Christianity for the Holocaust

only in as much as it is unfiar to blame Islam for Radical Islamic
terrorism.. both are extremist corruptions of a religious creed.

The most obvious religious creed associated with Nazism belonged to
the Mufti

LOL! Hardly. The most obviosl religiou screed was the religious creed

of Germany belonged to - Lutheraism. Have you ever read what Martin

had to say about Jews?

Oh, so now Martin Luther is responsible for the Holocaust.

This is getting ridiculous.

Most of the population of Germany during WWII
didn't know the extent of the Holocaust.

General Eisenhower made
civilians tour the gas chambers after the war so they'd see what had
been done by their government -- and those civilians were shocked and
horrified when they realized what had happened there.

, who spent the war at Hitler's side in Berlin -- and got
wealthy by acquiring stolen money and property from Jews who became
victims of the Holocaust.

Like the Catholic church and most of Switzerland did?

Okay, your continued defense of the Mufti's role in the Holocaust is
noted.

The Mufit encourged Hitler to conduct the Holocaust

, and got Hitler to promise to exterminate the Jews from the Palestine

after the war. I'm sure the Catholic Church gave Hitler no such
encouragement.

but then I really don't expect you to be fair since you started
this thread with an unfair representation of Jesus.

Which , as we have established, is irrelevant as it doesn't affect

reality of the barbarism of teh Catholic church...

Yes, we've established that *you* being unfair is irrelevant

No, we've established it has no bearing on the subject.

Yes, we've established that you were unfair and you don't care.

(in your mind). Of course if anyone else is ever unfair, you'll

be

among the first to call them on it.

Only if it's relevant.

Being unfair is always relevant.

It is interesting to note that muslims have never given us an
inquisition or a holocaust though..

Huh? Are you blind? How can you look at what's been going on in

Where are the gas chambers? Have 6,000,000 people been murdered in

Sudan

due to their race?

More than 2,000,000 Africans in Southern Sudan have died in the
genocide conducted by Arabs who control the Islamic government of
Northern Sudan.

Evasion noted.

Evasion? Evasion? I give you an example of GENOCIDE conducted by Arabs
upon Africans, and you can only muster up "evasion noted" -- your lack
of caring noted

This has happened in your lifetime, Tommy ... do you
care?

Of course I do.

That's it, huh?

Do you care abot dead Iraqi civilians?

Yes I do. It's a tragedy that the Islamic terrorist insurgents
continue to target Iraqi civilians.

2,000,000 people slaughtered by an Islamic government in YOUR
lifetime, and you ignore it because it's much more fun to dwell in the
past ... oh, and of course you'd rather spend your time trying to
figure out a way to blame Christianity for the Holocaust ...

I don't need to figure out a way to do that, it's all over the history
books. or do you think anti-semiotism just appeared out of nowhere

in mid 30's Germany?

Now, let's go back a couple of paragraphs

and look at how you
responded to more than 2,000,000 Africans murdered by Islamic Arabs --

your big yawn noted (as you quickly re-focused your energy on the
past).

Uganda, the Taliban's Afghanistan

Interestingly, the Taliban executed less people under their reign

the

state of Texas did during the same period.

If you think Texas even comes close to comparing to the Taliban in
scale, motivation or purpose

They actaully come slightly below in terms of scale..

Slightly, huh?

If this isn't a defense of Islamic horrors (as
perpetrated by the Taliban and listed in the article I posted), what
the hell is it?

but I can't recall equating the two as you tried to do with Islam
and the holocaust, I merely brought it up as an interesting point.
If you can't see the difference..well I'm not surprised anymore.

If you can't see a MAJOR (not just slight) difference between Texas
and the Taliban, then I'm not surprised anymore.

<snip rather obvious strawman>

, the Ayatollah's Iran, etc., and
make the statement you made above?

If you think any of them even come close to comparing to the

or

Inquisition in scale, motivation or purpose then there is clearly no

point

talking to you as you live in a fucking dreamworld.

As you know, I reject your idea that Christianity conducted the
Holocaust.

LOL! It's not my idea,do you think anti-semitism just appeared out of
nowhere sometime in mid 30's Germany?

Sheesh -- Hitler was a maniacal dictator -- his SS troops
(supplemented by Muslims with Mufti's help) terrorized the German
population to keep them in line.

Christianity did NOT conduct the
Holocaust.

Some tyrannical dictator, with help from his Muslim buddy
did. Please stop defending the Mufti's actions during the war.

In fact, it was our -- (yours and my) -- our largely
Christian society that fought Hitler and contributed to Nazism's
defeat.

What the *****? First of all, Britain has never described itself as a
Christian nation,

You're absolutely amazing, you know?

You're so focused on hundreds of
years ago, I would have thought you knew that the Church of England
was the only religion allowed in England hundreds of years ago

which caused some people to leave England and start some colonies in
the New World. It also caused the Founding Fathers of the US
Constitution to include a clause prohibiting the new government from
instituting a state religion (which we know as separation of church
and state).

secondly, the Russians made by far the biggest human effort to
ending that war, and they were a bunch of godless commies weren't
they?

If you'll read what I wrote, I wrote our LARGELY Christian SOCIETY --
CONTRIBUTED to defeating Hitler.

And thank God Hitler attacked Russia,
or Stalin would have happily stayed an ally of Hitler through the war.

In the case of the Spanish Inquisition, the secular government of
Spain (after the defeat of the formerly Islamic government) asked the
Pope for a decree in 1474 to conduct the Inquisition.

If they were secular, what on earth were the doing asking the pope for
decrees?

The King and Queen were obvioulsy Catholic, but their government was
secular in the sense they did not have a state religion (as England
did).

The Pope granted the decree, but the Inquistion itself was conducted

the secular

government of Spain to make sure that Islamics would not be able to
regain control of the government. Unfortunately, in their zeal, they
also went after Jews and even some Christians. It was wrong.

LOL! That sounds an awful lot like an attempt to justify those scum.

What part of "it was wrong" didn't you understand?

The "islamics" treated the Jews one hell of alot better than the
Catholics did at the time, by the way.

What's the story on that TODAY? Or are you so stuck in the past you
don't know what's going on TODAY?

As I pointed out to you, the people the Sudanese are supporting

self-proclaimed Christians.

I don't care if they are self-proclaimed Martians. They have no
popular support in Uganda, and they have ZERO support from the

Christian community.

So what, they're still Christians.

I don't think so. But even if your claim is true, that would make them
"Christians" in name only.

Now either that is a pathetic cop-out, or itcuts both ways - so apply

same logic to Islamic fundamentalists if you have any integrity.

How about the Islamic government of Sudan and more than 2,000,000
Africans slaughtered in a genocide?

Oh never mind, I forgot ... your
yawn noted.

The ONLY support they have comes from an Islamic
terrorist government.

.and their fellow Christian terrorists, no doubt.

Source?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3514473.stm

Uh, I already read that -- and I don't see anything about fellow
Christian terrorists helping them.

What I do see is the Islamic
government of Sudan helping, though.

As I said, the US aided Islamic fighters against the
Soviets in Afghanistan..

So what?

So that didn't make the fighters any less Islamic, even though they were
being sponsoerd by a chritsian government. Sheesh.

So what?

At the time, in the midst of the Cold War, the larger threat
was the Soviet Union -- and before that, when Hitler was an even
LARGER threat, the US allied with Stalin. What is Sudan's motivation
in aiding the LRA?

You'll have to ask them.

I think it's obvious -- since the main targets of the LRA are
Christians.

Once again, the subject of Sudan's Islamic government
comes up -- and once again, your yawn noted.

does that make the
Mujahideen any less Muslim?

???

Well that one flew right over yuor head didn't it? I'll be more lowbrow
next time, I promise.

You're already close, so it shouldn't be too much of a stretch for you
to reach that high.