I can't be bothered wandering your way, America. I did consider a
trip, but this sort of paranoia does nothing to encourage people.
US records UK visitors' race and reading habits
By Tim Shipman in Washington
Last Updated: 1:00am BST 23/09/2007
The titles of books read by passengers flying to America are being
recorded for use in compiling terrorist watch lists, according to
documents released under freedom of information legislation in the
United States.
Personal items carried on to aircraft, the details of passengers
travelled with, information on relatives living in other countries, as
well as race, are all recorded by American security officials, who
have the right to keep the data for 40 years.
The information, culled from airlines' records, online ticket-booking
agencies and customs and border guards, includes more personal detail
than the information already demanded from British passengers.
advertisementThe full extent of criminal and anti-terrorist monitoring
has been laid bare after the Identity Project, a civil liberties
group, demanded access to files on five of its members.
One passenger who obtained his personal record found that customs and
border-control officers at an American airport had recorded that he
was carrying a book on drugs.
The file of John Gilmore, a computer entrepreneur who funds the
Identity Project, reads: "PAX [passenger] has many small flashlights
with pot leaves on them. He had a book entitled Drugs and Your
Rights."
The Department of Homeland Security's automated targeting system also
recorded the name of a second passenger's planned travelling
companion, even though they did not in fact travel together, creating
a record of association that could be referred to years later.
Security officers also routinely record the race of anyone pulled
aside for extra screening at an American airport, a regular occurrence
for British tourists and business travellers.
Human rights groups in the UK are already unhappy that all British
passengers have to supply passport details, credit card numbers and
the address of where they will stay 48 hours before they fly to the
US. They are then are fingerprinted and photographed on arrival.
Jen Corlew, the communications director of Liberty, said: "It is
worrying indeed if US officials are keeping far more personal details
than allowed by law.
"Our Government has a duty to protect the personal details of British
travellers, despite the demands of our closest allies."
Bill Scannell, a spokesman for the Identity Project, told the online
magazine Wired, which broke the story: "They are noting people's race
and writing down what people read... This is just plain wrong."
Werewolfy
.
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| User: "WH" |
|
| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
23 Sep 2007 06:03:41 AM |
|
|
On Sep 23, 12:11 pm, Werewolfy <Werewol...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I can't be bothered wandering your way, America. I did consider a
trip, but this sort of paranoia does nothing to encourage people.
US records UK visitors' race and reading habits
By Tim Shipman in Washington
Last Updated: 1:00am BST 23/09/2007
The titles of books read by passengers flying to America are being
recorded for use in compiling terrorist watch lists, according to
documents released under freedom of information legislation in the
United States.
Personal items carried on to aircraft, the details of passengers
travelled with, information on relatives living in other countries, as
well as race, are all recorded by American security officials, who
have the right to keep the data for 40 years.
The information, culled from airlines' records, online ticket-booking
agencies and customs and border guards, includes more personal detail
than the information already demanded from British passengers.
advertisementThe full extent of criminal and anti-terrorist monitoring
has been laid bare after the Identity Project, a civil liberties
group, demanded access to files on five of its members.
One passenger who obtained his personal record found that customs and
border-control officers at an American airport had recorded that he
was carrying a book on drugs.
The file of John Gilmore, a computer entrepreneur who funds the
Identity Project, reads: "PAX [passenger] has many small flashlights
with pot leaves on them. He had a book entitled Drugs and Your
Rights."
The Department of Homeland Security's automated targeting system also
recorded the name of a second passenger's planned travelling
companion, even though they did not in fact travel together, creating
a record of association that could be referred to years later.
Security officers also routinely record the race of anyone pulled
aside for extra screening at an American airport, a regular occurrence
for British tourists and business travellers.
Human rights groups in the UK are already unhappy that all British
passengers have to supply passport details, credit card numbers and
the address of where they will stay 48 hours before they fly to the
US. They are then are fingerprinted and photographed on arrival.
Jen Corlew, the communications director of Liberty, said: "It is
worrying indeed if US officials are keeping far more personal details
than allowed by law.
"Our Government has a duty to protect the personal details of British
travellers, despite the demands of our closest allies."
Bill Scannell, a spokesman for the Identity Project, told the online
magazine Wired, which broke the story: "They are noting people's race
and writing down what people read... This is just plain wrong."
Werewolfy
Same here Wolfy. The job has wanted me to go to North Carolina on a
number of occasions but I said no. ***** it, my passport was issued in
Stockholm and is hand written without this code at the end of the
first page. That was 2002 when my old one ran out. It is valid till
2012, ten years. Nowadays, because of yankie pressure all passports
are twice as expensive than before and only valid for 5 years. My
passport works all over the world, except America so they can shove
it. Even if I had a 'modern' one I would not go to America because I
reckon they're taking peoples integrity from them. Finger prints, iris
images, credit card info and all the other ***** they are up to.
Only foreigners, by the way, are subjected to this crap...they
probably have all this info on yanks already...I don't know. And they
have the balls to slag off other countries for human rights abuses
huh!
It's a fuckin' police state! Yanks haven't realised that yet.
WH
.
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| User: "John Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
23 Sep 2007 06:19:41 AM |
|
|
On Sep 23, 7:03 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 12:11 pm, Werewolfy <Werewol...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I can't be bothered wandering your way, America. I did consider a
trip, but this sort of paranoia does nothing to encourage people.
US records UK visitors' race and reading habits
By Tim Shipman in Washington
Last Updated: 1:00am BST 23/09/2007
The titles of books read by passengers flying to America are being
recorded for use in compiling terrorist watch lists, according to
documents released under freedom of information legislation in the
United States.
Personal items carried on to aircraft, the details of passengers
travelled with, information on relatives living in other countries, as
well as race, are all recorded by American security officials, who
have the right to keep the data for 40 years.
The information, culled from airlines' records, online ticket-booking
agencies and customs and border guards, includes more personal detail
than the information already demanded from British passengers.
advertisementThe full extent of criminal and anti-terrorist monitoring
has been laid bare after the Identity Project, a civil liberties
group, demanded access to files on five of its members.
One passenger who obtained his personal record found that customs and
border-control officers at an American airport had recorded that he
was carrying a book on drugs.
The file of John Gilmore, a computer entrepreneur who funds the
Identity Project, reads: "PAX [passenger] has many small flashlights
with pot leaves on them. He had a book entitled Drugs and Your
Rights."
The Department of Homeland Security's automated targeting system also
recorded the name of a second passenger's planned travelling
companion, even though they did not in fact travel together, creating
a record of association that could be referred to years later.
Security officers also routinely record the race of anyone pulled
aside for extra screening at an American airport, a regular occurrence
for British tourists and business travellers.
Human rights groups in the UK are already unhappy that all British
passengers have to supply passport details, credit card numbers and
the address of where they will stay 48 hours before they fly to the
US. They are then are fingerprinted and photographed on arrival.
Jen Corlew, the communications director of Liberty, said: "It is
worrying indeed if US officials are keeping far more personal details
than allowed by law.
"Our Government has a duty to protect the personal details of British
travellers, despite the demands of our closest allies."
Bill Scannell, a spokesman for the Identity Project, told the online
magazine Wired, which broke the story: "They are noting people's race
and writing down what people read... This is just plain wrong."
Werewolfy
Same here Wolfy. The job has wanted me to go to North Carolina on a
number of occasions but I said no. ***** it, my passport was issued in
Stockholm and is hand written without this code at the end of the
first page. That was 2002 when my old one ran out. It is valid till
2012, ten years. Nowadays, because of yankie pressure all passports
are twice as expensive than before and only valid for 5 years. My
passport works all over the world, except America so they can shove
it. Even if I had a 'modern' one I would not go to America because I
reckon they're taking peoples integrity from them. Finger prints, iris
images, credit card info and all the other ***** they are up to.
Only foreigners, by the way, are subjected to this crap...they
probably have all this info on yanks already...I don't know. And they
have the balls to slag off other countries for human rights abuses
huh!
It's a fuckin' police state! Yanks haven't realised that yet.
WH
You two would only feel that way if you were paranoid yourselves.
Of course, that puts you in the same category as we Americans who
refuse to participate in the things Chris rails against above. :-)
.
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
|
| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
23 Sep 2007 07:53:13 AM |
|
|
On 23 Sep, 12:19, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
You two would only feel that way if you were paranoid yourselves.
Of course, that puts you in the same category as we Americans who
refuse to participate in the things Chris rails against above. :-)-
Not really John. Paranoid that is. These things exist and paranoia
deals with matters imagined.
Refuse to participate? Well, I don't see that you have a great deal of
choice in the matter. I do though, I also 'refuse to participate', as
does Chris...We have placed your Nation on our black list of Countries
where there is no pleasure in visiting, and which impose Police State
tactics of an order far greater than any Dictatorship, against a
visitor.
In Kathmandu a few years ago, despite a guerilla war between Maoist
factions and the Government, I found that the heavy military presence
at the airport and in the town respected travellers in their land.
Other Nations welcome visitors. America eyes them with suspicion and
places all into the catagory of 'Terrorist'. The onus has shifted onto
the visitor to prove he is not of seditious intent, rather than on the
Authorities to prove he is.
I've been to America a few times. I can assure you that this 'War on
Terror' is (a) without point or chance of sucess, (b) restrictive to
millions of ordinary people.
You are isolating yourselves more with every day that passes.
Werewolfy
.
|
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| User: "Pers3id" |
|
| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
23 Sep 2007 12:18:01 PM |
|
|
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, Werewolfy <Werewolfy1@yahoo.co.uk>
Spat the Words
On 23 Sep, 12:19, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
You two would only feel that way if you were paranoid yourselves.
Of course, that puts you in the same category as we Americans who
refuse to participate in the things Chris rails against above. :-)-
Not really John. Paranoid that is. These things exist and paranoia
deals with matters imagined.
Refuse to participate? Well, I don't see that you have a great deal of
choice in the matter. I do though, I also 'refuse to participate', as
does Chris...We have placed your Nation on our black list of Countries
where there is no pleasure in visiting, and which impose Police State
tactics of an order far greater than any Dictatorship, against a
visitor.
Ah but stuff is so cheap over here. With the dollar in a free-fall, your
euros buy almost twice as much stuff over here than they did 4 years ago.
Of course, the investments are cheap too, and money appears to be fleeing
the USA.. exchange rate return doesn't favor foreign investment in the
US right now. If it weren't for the safety of US treasuries, our gov't
would already be bankrupted.
In Kathmandu a few years ago, despite a guerilla war between Maoist
factions and the Government, I found that the heavy military presence
at the airport and in the town respected travellers in their land.
Other Nations welcome visitors. America eyes them with suspicion and
places all into the catagory of 'Terrorist'. The onus has shifted onto
the visitor to prove he is not of seditious intent, rather than on the
Authorities to prove he is.
I've been to America a few times. I can assure you that this 'War on
Terror' is (a) without point or chance of sucess, (b) restrictive to
millions of ordinary people.
You are isolating yourselves more with every day that passes.
Werewolfy
.
|
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|
|
|
| User: "WH" |
|
| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
23 Sep 2007 09:03:37 AM |
|
|
On Sep 23, 1:19 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
On Sep 23, 7:03 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 12:11 pm, Werewolfy <Werewol...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I can't be bothered wandering your way, America. I did consider a
trip, but this sort of paranoia does nothing to encourage people.
US records UK visitors' race and reading habits
By Tim Shipman in Washington
Last Updated: 1:00am BST 23/09/2007
The titles of books read by passengers flying to America are being
recorded for use in compiling terrorist watch lists, according to
documents released under freedom of information legislation in the
United States.
Personal items carried on to aircraft, the details of passengers
travelled with, information on relatives living in other countries, as
well as race, are all recorded by American security officials, who
have the right to keep the data for 40 years.
The information, culled from airlines' records, online ticket-booking
agencies and customs and border guards, includes more personal detail
than the information already demanded from British passengers.
advertisementThe full extent of criminal and anti-terrorist monitoring
has been laid bare after the Identity Project, a civil liberties
group, demanded access to files on five of its members.
One passenger who obtained his personal record found that customs and
border-control officers at an American airport had recorded that he
was carrying a book on drugs.
The file of John Gilmore, a computer entrepreneur who funds the
Identity Project, reads: "PAX [passenger] has many small flashlights
with pot leaves on them. He had a book entitled Drugs and Your
Rights."
The Department of Homeland Security's automated targeting system also
recorded the name of a second passenger's planned travelling
companion, even though they did not in fact travel together, creating
a record of association that could be referred to years later.
Security officers also routinely record the race of anyone pulled
aside for extra screening at an American airport, a regular occurrence
for British tourists and business travellers.
Human rights groups in the UK are already unhappy that all British
passengers have to supply passport details, credit card numbers and
the address of where they will stay 48 hours before they fly to the
US. They are then are fingerprinted and photographed on arrival.
Jen Corlew, the communications director of Liberty, said: "It is
worrying indeed if US officials are keeping far more personal details
than allowed by law.
"Our Government has a duty to protect the personal details of British
travellers, despite the demands of our closest allies."
Bill Scannell, a spokesman for the Identity Project, told the online
magazine Wired, which broke the story: "They are noting people's race
and writing down what people read... This is just plain wrong."
Werewolfy
Same here Wolfy. The job has wanted me to go to North Carolina on a
number of occasions but I said no. ***** it, my passport was issued in
Stockholm and is hand written without this code at the end of the
first page. That was 2002 when my old one ran out. It is valid till
2012, ten years. Nowadays, because of yankie pressure all passports
are twice as expensive than before and only valid for 5 years. My
passport works all over the world, except America so they can shove
it. Even if I had a 'modern' one I would not go to America because I
reckon they're taking peoples integrity from them. Finger prints, iris
images, credit card info and all the other ***** they are up to.
Only foreigners, by the way, are subjected to this crap...they
probably have all this info on yanks already...I don't know. And they
have the balls to slag off other countries for human rights abuses
huh!
It's a fuckin' police state! Yanks haven't realised that yet.
WH
You two would only feel that way if you were paranoid yourselves.
Of course, that puts you in the same category as we Americans who
refuse to participate in the things Chris rails against above. :-)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
It's ridiculous! Travelling to the Soviet Union in the 80's before it
broke up was a doddle compared to getting into yankieland. I went
through Bulgaria in 87 or so and all I had to do was go to the embassy
and pay a pittance for a visa. I was in Istanbul at the time and
travelled by bus through Bulgaria to Germany. And as far as the
western media and folklore was concerned the Soviet Union was a
completely closed society. No one got in or got out. Same with
'communist' China. Closed...where people are oppressed and live in
misery. I got news for ya matie...it's not at all like that. Some
political opponents have ended up in jail and yes they do trump up
charges on people who disagree with the state...but that happens in
America too. Just look at Gitmo...there are people, approx. 600, who
are held captive for absolutely no reason. There's no justice there at
all. They even kidnap kids and incarcerate them taking them from their
homes and families and shipping them to Cuba to 're-educate' them. No
other country in the world demands from visitors what the yanks
demand. Not one!
Fuckin' pisses me off when I hear American politicians going on about
human rights abuses in other countries.
WH
.
|
|
|
| User: "Werewolfy" |
|
| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
23 Sep 2007 10:20:20 AM |
|
|
On 23 Sep, 15:03, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 1:19 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
On Sep 23, 7:03 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 12:11 pm, Werewolfy <Werewol...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I can't be bothered wandering your way, America. I did consider a
trip, but this sort of paranoia does nothing to encourage people.
US records UK visitors' race and reading habits
By Tim Shipman in Washington
Last Updated: 1:00am BST 23/09/2007
The titles of books read by passengers flying to America are being
recorded for use in compiling terrorist watch lists, according to
documents released under freedom of information legislation in the
United States.
Personal items carried on to aircraft, the details of passengers
travelled with, information on relatives living in other countries, as
well as race, are all recorded by American security officials, who
have the right to keep the data for 40 years.
The information, culled from airlines' records, online ticket-booking
agencies and customs and border guards, includes more personal detail
than the information already demanded from British passengers.
advertisementThe full extent of criminal and anti-terrorist monitoring
has been laid bare after the Identity Project, a civil liberties
group, demanded access to files on five of its members.
One passenger who obtained his personal record found that customs and
border-control officers at an American airport had recorded that he
was carrying a book on drugs.
The file of John Gilmore, a computer entrepreneur who funds the
Identity Project, reads: "PAX [passenger] has many small flashlights
with pot leaves on them. He had a book entitled Drugs and Your
Rights."
The Department of Homeland Security's automated targeting system also
recorded the name of a second passenger's planned travelling
companion, even though they did not in fact travel together, creating
a record of association that could be referred to years later.
Security officers also routinely record the race of anyone pulled
aside for extra screening at an American airport, a regular occurrence
for British tourists and business travellers.
Human rights groups in the UK are already unhappy that all British
passengers have to supply passport details, credit card numbers and
the address of where they will stay 48 hours before they fly to the
US. They are then are fingerprinted and photographed on arrival.
Jen Corlew, the communications director of Liberty, said: "It is
worrying indeed if US officials are keeping far more personal details
than allowed by law.
"Our Government has a duty to protect the personal details of British
travellers, despite the demands of our closest allies."
Bill Scannell, a spokesman for the Identity Project, told the online
magazine Wired, which broke the story: "They are noting people's race
and writing down what people read... This is just plain wrong."
Werewolfy
Same here Wolfy. The job has wanted me to go to North Carolina on a
number of occasions but I said no. ***** it, my passport was issued in
Stockholm and is hand written without this code at the end of the
first page. That was 2002 when my old one ran out. It is valid till
2012, ten years. Nowadays, because of yankie pressure all passports
are twice as expensive than before and only valid for 5 years. My
passport works all over the world, except America so they can shove
it. Even if I had a 'modern' one I would not go to America because I
reckon they're taking peoples integrity from them. Finger prints, iris
images, credit card info and all the other ***** they are up to.
Only foreigners, by the way, are subjected to this crap...they
probably have all this info on yanks already...I don't know. And they
have the balls to slag off other countries for human rights abuses
huh!
It's a fuckin' police state! Yanks haven't realised that yet.
WH
You two would only feel that way if you were paranoid yourselves.
Of course, that puts you in the same category as we Americans who
refuse to participate in the things Chris rails against above. :-)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
It's ridiculous! Travelling to the Soviet Union in the 80's before it
broke up was a doddle compared to getting into yankieland. I went
through Bulgaria in 87 or so and all I had to do was go to the embassy
and pay a pittance for a visa. I was in Istanbul at the time and
travelled by bus through Bulgaria to Germany. And as far as the
western media and folklore was concerned the Soviet Union was a
completely closed society. No one got in or got out. Same with
'communist' China. Closed...where people are oppressed and live in
misery. I got news for ya matie...it's not at all like that. Some
political opponents have ended up in jail and yes they do trump up
charges on people who disagree with the state...but that happens in
America too. Just look at Gitmo...there are people, approx. 600, who
are held captive for absolutely no reason. There's no justice there at
all. They even kidnap kids and incarcerate them taking them from their
homes and families and shipping them to Cuba to 're-educate' them. No
other country in the world demands from visitors what the yanks
demand. Not one!
Fuckin' pisses me off when I hear American politicians going on about
human rights abuses in other countries.
WH- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I know Chris. I 'did' the former Eastern bloc when it was 'closed' and
when in America, Mc'Arthyism was rife. No problems at all.
I've just renewed my passport and it's requirements are all as a
result of American insistance. The photo has an inlay chip in the eye,
it's full of information which America scans into their computers. I
had to do it, simply because my old one..although only 4 years
old....had no space left in the damned thing. Been too busy wandering!
Has everyone forgotten how America treated poor old Charlie Chaplain?
Anyway, not going there, even though their weak currency as demoted
the Land into a 'Third World' State. Many more wars and they will be
collecting their wages in a wheelbarrow as inflation becomes rampant!
It's looking like Mumbai then onto Calcutta in latish October.From
there over to Bangkok (as usual) then back to Rangoon, Myanmar again.
I liked that place.
It's rare indeed to find an American tourist in Bangkok, and that's a
relief. They make for the most loud-mouthed vile company imaginable.
They are bad enough in their own fortress, but abroad, they take on a
swagger and attitude that makes me rather...cross. I fancy it is the
severe drug penalties that disuade Americans from wandering Thailand.
Oh...yes, saw your recent travel and was suitably envious!...;) My
turn soon!
Werewolfy
.
|
|
|
| User: "WH" |
|
| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
23 Sep 2007 12:13:54 PM |
|
|
On Sep 23, 5:20 pm, Werewolfy <Werewol...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 23 Sep, 15:03, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 1:19 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
On Sep 23, 7:03 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 12:11 pm, Werewolfy <Werewol...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I can't be bothered wandering your way, America. I did consider a
trip, but this sort of paranoia does nothing to encourage people.
US records UK visitors' race and reading habits
By Tim Shipman in Washington
Last Updated: 1:00am BST 23/09/2007
The titles of books read by passengers flying to America are being
recorded for use in compiling terrorist watch lists, according to
documents released under freedom of information legislation in the
United States.
Personal items carried on to aircraft, the details of passengers
travelled with, information on relatives living in other countries, as
well as race, are all recorded by American security officials, who
have the right to keep the data for 40 years.
The information, culled from airlines' records, online ticket-booking
agencies and customs and border guards, includes more personal detail
than the information already demanded from British passengers.
advertisementThe full extent of criminal and anti-terrorist monitoring
has been laid bare after the Identity Project, a civil liberties
group, demanded access to files on five of its members.
One passenger who obtained his personal record found that customs and
border-control officers at an American airport had recorded that he
was carrying a book on drugs.
The file of John Gilmore, a computer entrepreneur who funds the
Identity Project, reads: "PAX [passenger] has many small flashlights
with pot leaves on them. He had a book entitled Drugs and Your
Rights."
The Department of Homeland Security's automated targeting system also
recorded the name of a second passenger's planned travelling
companion, even though they did not in fact travel together, creating
a record of association that could be referred to years later.
Security officers also routinely record the race of anyone pulled
aside for extra screening at an American airport, a regular occurrence
for British tourists and business travellers.
Human rights groups in the UK are already unhappy that all British
passengers have to supply passport details, credit card numbers and
the address of where they will stay 48 hours before they fly to the
US. They are then are fingerprinted and photographed on arrival.
Jen Corlew, the communications director of Liberty, said: "It is
worrying indeed if US officials are keeping far more personal details
than allowed by law.
"Our Government has a duty to protect the personal details of British
travellers, despite the demands of our closest allies."
Bill Scannell, a spokesman for the Identity Project, told the online
magazine Wired, which broke the story: "They are noting people's race
and writing down what people read... This is just plain wrong."
Werewolfy
Same here Wolfy. The job has wanted me to go to North Carolina on a
number of occasions but I said no. ***** it, my passport was issued in
Stockholm and is hand written without this code at the end of the
first page. That was 2002 when my old one ran out. It is valid till
2012, ten years. Nowadays, because of yankie pressure all passports
are twice as expensive than before and only valid for 5 years. My
passport works all over the world, except America so they can shove
it. Even if I had a 'modern' one I would not go to America because I
reckon they're taking peoples integrity from them. Finger prints, iris
images, credit card info and all the other ***** they are up to.
Only foreigners, by the way, are subjected to this crap...they
probably have all this info on yanks already...I don't know. And they
have the balls to slag off other countries for human rights abuses
huh!
It's a fuckin' police state! Yanks haven't realised that yet.
WH
You two would only feel that way if you were paranoid yourselves.
Of course, that puts you in the same category as we Americans who
refuse to participate in the things Chris rails against above. :-)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
It's ridiculous! Travelling to the Soviet Union in the 80's before it
broke up was a doddle compared to getting into yankieland. I went
through Bulgaria in 87 or so and all I had to do was go to the embassy
and pay a pittance for a visa. I was in Istanbul at the time and
travelled by bus through Bulgaria to Germany. And as far as the
western media and folklore was concerned the Soviet Union was a
completely closed society. No one got in or got out. Same with
'communist' China. Closed...where people are oppressed and live in
misery. I got news for ya matie...it's not at all like that. Some
political opponents have ended up in jail and yes they do trump up
charges on people who disagree with the state...but that happens in
America too. Just look at Gitmo...there are people, approx. 600, who
are held captive for absolutely no reason. There's no justice there at
all. They even kidnap kids and incarcerate them taking them from their
homes and families and shipping them to Cuba to 're-educate' them. No
other country in the world demands from visitors what the yanks
demand. Not one!
Fuckin' pisses me off when I hear American politicians going on about
human rights abuses in other countries.
WH- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I know Chris. I 'did' the former Eastern bloc when it was 'closed' and
when in America, Mc'Arthyism was rife. No problems at all.
I've just renewed my passport and it's requirements are all as a
result of American insistance. The photo has an inlay chip in the eye,
it's full of information which America scans into their computers. I
had to do it, simply because my old one..although only 4 years
old....had no space left in the damned thing. Been too busy wandering!
Has everyone forgotten how America treated poor old Charlie Chaplain?
Anyway, not going there, even though their weak currency as demoted
the Land into a 'Third World' State. Many more wars and they will be
collecting their wages in a wheelbarrow as inflation becomes rampant!
It's looking like Mumbai then onto Calcutta in latish October.From
there over to Bangkok (as usual) then back to Rangoon, Myanmar again.
I liked that place.
It's rare indeed to find an American tourist in Bangkok, and that's a
relief. They make for the most loud-mouthed vile company imaginable.
They are bad enough in their own fortress, but abroad, they take on a
swagger and attitude that makes me rather...cross. I fancy it is the
severe drug penalties that disuade Americans from wandering Thailand.
Oh...yes, saw your recent travel and was suitably envious!...;) My
turn soon!
Werewolfy- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Question is how effective this ***** is...except for isolating
themselves more and more I'de say it's not effective at all. If
someone was going to drive a plane into one of their buildings they
would hardly give a ***** what the yanks demanded off them at the point
of entry. It certainly wouldn't stop them. OK the yanks could identify
the (late) culprit easier I s'pose but what the ***** good is that
after the deed is done? No this is a power thing. This is just to
gather info on foreign nationals to build up a data base for some
reason or other. What fuckin' business is it of theirs what my
political views are? None! What books I read? None! Who I associate
with? None! They're treating us all, (foreigners), as criminals. The
bastards! You know something, it wouldn't surprise me if they got it
into their heads to demand all this info from govt.s in advance. "Send
us all this info about all your citizens for our data base just in
case they sometime in the future travel to America". I'm exaggerating
of course but I wouldn't put it past them.
Nah, like you Wolfy, I'm giving that god forsaken dump a miss until
they get their act together and re-join the world community. Until
then the Middle and Far East are for me :-) Yankieland can *****-off!
WH
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
23 Sep 2007 01:30:20 PM |
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On Sep 23, 7:03 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
It's ridiculous! Travelling to the Soviet Union in the 80's before it
broke up was a doddle compared to getting into yankieland. I went
through Bulgaria in 87 or so and all I had to do was go to the embassy
and pay a pittance for a visa.
Of course, those eastern European hellholes were desperate for
revenue, and encouraged tourism for that reason.
I was in Istanbul at the time and
travelled by bus through Bulgaria to Germany. And as far as the
western media and folklore was concerned the Soviet Union was a
completely closed society. No one got in or got out.
Did their own citizens get out, or were they routinely shot attempting
to escape? I've known several people who escaped from behind the Iron
Curtain, and they were very happy to be living their lives in the
United States.
Same with
'communist' China. Closed...where people are oppressed and live in
misery. I got news for ya matie...it's not at all like that. Some
political opponents have ended up in jail and yes they do trump up
charges on people who disagree with the state...but that happens in
America too.
Oh yeah, as if it's all equivalent. Do the words "Tiananmen Square"
mean anything to you? And how about this:
[excerpt] Limited legal and judicial reforms did little to improve
human rights protection. Tens of thousands of people continued to be
detained in violation of their human rights and were at risk of
torture or ill-treatment. Thousands of people were sentenced to death
or executed. The authorities frequently resorted to the use of force
against growing social unrest. There was a renewed crackdown on the
media and Internet controls were tightened. [end excerpt]
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/chn-summary-eng
Just look at Gitmo...there are people, approx. 600, who
are held captive for absolutely no reason.
Most of them were picked up on the battlefield in Afghanistan. We also
held German prisoners over here during World War II. Was that for no
reason at all?
There's no justice there at
all. They even kidnap kids and incarcerate them taking them from their
homes and families and shipping them to Cuba to 're-educate' them.
As if that's something that happens on a routine basis? It was one
isolated incident (during Bill Clinton's presidency), and the person
the kid was returned to in Cuba was his *father* -- though personally,
I did not agree with sending the kid back to Cuba unless the father
was allowed to come here to pick him up. But of course Castro would
not allow the father to leave Cuba because Castro was afraid the
father would want to stay here.
No other country in the world demands from visitors what the yanks
demand. Not one!
Fuckin' pisses me off when I hear American politicians going on about
human rights abuses in other countries.
I have absolutely no problem with your choice to avoid the US. Did you
know we take in more immigrants every year than any other nation on
earth? And their appreciation for being part of this country is an
inspiration to me -- especially when I compare them to the various
ingrates who were born here and have no idea how good they have it (as
compared to some of the hellholes on this earth).
.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
23 Sep 2007 02:20:14 PM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190572220.868480.24590@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 23, 7:03 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
It's ridiculous! Travelling to the Soviet Union in the 80's before it
broke up was a doddle compared to getting into yankieland. I went
through Bulgaria in 87 or so and all I had to do was go to the embassy
and pay a pittance for a visa.
Of course, those eastern European hellholes were desperate for
revenue, and encouraged tourism for that reason.
I was in Istanbul at the time and
travelled by bus through Bulgaria to Germany. And as far as the
western media and folklore was concerned the Soviet Union was a
completely closed society. No one got in or got out.
Did their own citizens get out, or were they routinely shot attempting
to escape? I've known several people who escaped from behind the Iron
Curtain, and they were very happy to be living their lives in the
United States.
Same with
'communist' China. Closed...where people are oppressed and live in
misery. I got news for ya matie...it's not at all like that. Some
political opponents have ended up in jail and yes they do trump up
charges on people who disagree with the state...but that happens in
America too.
Oh yeah, as if it's all equivalent. Do the words "Tiananmen Square"
mean anything to you? And how about this:
[excerpt] Limited legal and judicial reforms did little to improve
human rights protection. Tens of thousands of people continued to be
detained in violation of their human rights and were at risk of
torture or ill-treatment. Thousands of people were sentenced to death
or executed. The authorities frequently resorted to the use of force
against growing social unrest. There was a renewed crackdown on the
media and Internet controls were tightened. [end excerpt]
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/chn-summary-eng
Just look at Gitmo...there are people, approx. 600, who
are held captive for absolutely no reason.
Most of them were picked up on the battlefield in Afghanistan. We also
held German prisoners over here during World War II. Was that for no
reason at all?
Tell us what legal charges are against those prisoners and why the
goverment has not been to court and processed them into regular prisons?
Tell us, Stevie, what justification we have in holding them there without
trials.
There's no justice there at
all. They even kidnap kids and incarcerate them taking them from their
homes and families and shipping them to Cuba to 're-educate' them.
As if that's something that happens on a routine basis? It was one
isolated incident (during Bill Clinton's presidency), and the person
the kid was returned to in Cuba was his *father* -- though personally,
I did not agree with sending the kid back to Cuba unless the father
was allowed to come here to pick him up. But of course Castro would
not allow the father to leave Cuba because Castro was afraid the
father would want to stay here.
No other country in the world demands from visitors what the yanks
demand. Not one!
Fuckin' pisses me off when I hear American politicians going on about
human rights abuses in other countries.
I have absolutely no problem with your choice to avoid the US. Did you
know we take in more immigrants every year than any other nation on
earth? And their appreciation for being part of this country is an
inspiration to me -- especially when I compare them to the various
ingrates who were born here and have no idea how good they have it (as
compared to some of the hellholes on this earth).
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
23 Sep 2007 02:59:23 PM |
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|
On Sep 23, 12:20 pm, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190572220.868480.24590@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 23, 7:03 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
It's ridiculous! Travelling to the Soviet Union in the 80's before it
broke up was a doddle compared to getting into yankieland. I went
through Bulgaria in 87 or so and all I had to do was go to the embassy
and pay a pittance for a visa.
Of course, those eastern European hellholes were desperate for
revenue, and encouraged tourism for that reason.
I was in Istanbul at the time and
travelled by bus through Bulgaria to Germany. And as far as the
western media and folklore was concerned the Soviet Union was a
completely closed society. No one got in or got out.
Did their own citizens get out, or were they routinely shot attempting
to escape? I've known several people who escaped from behind the Iron
Curtain, and they were very happy to be living their lives in the
United States.
Same with
'communist' China. Closed...where people are oppressed and live in
misery. I got news for ya matie...it's not at all like that. Some
political opponents have ended up in jail and yes they do trump up
charges on people who disagree with the state...but that happens in
America too.
Oh yeah, as if it's all equivalent. Do the words "Tiananmen Square"
mean anything to you? And how about this:
[excerpt] Limited legal and judicial reforms did little to improve
human rights protection. Tens of thousands of people continued to be
detained in violation of their human rights and were at risk of
torture or ill-treatment. Thousands of people were sentenced to death
or executed. The authorities frequently resorted to the use of force
against growing social unrest. There was a renewed crackdown on the
media and Internet controls were tightened. [end excerpt]
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/chn-summary-eng
Just look at Gitmo...there are people, approx. 600, who
are held captive for absolutely no reason.
Most of them were picked up on the battlefield in Afghanistan. We also
held German prisoners over here during World War II. Was that for no
reason at all?
Tell us what legal charges are against those prisoners and why the
goverment has not been to court and processed them into regular prisons?
They've all had hearings, and many have been released. WH's "600"
number is out of date. It was once as high as 800, and is now under
400 and continuing to decline as their cases are routinely reviewed.
Tell us, Stevie, what justification we have in holding them there without
trials.
The same justification we had to hold German POWs in the US (without
trials) during WWII. Prisoners of war or enemy combatants are not
automatically entitled to enter our civilian court system.
.
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| User: "WH" |
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| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
23 Sep 2007 03:16:56 PM |
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|
On Sep 23, 8:30 pm, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 7:03 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
It's ridiculous! Travelling to the Soviet Union in the 80's before it
broke up was a doddle compared to getting into yankieland. I went
through Bulgaria in 87 or so and all I had to do was go to the embassy
and pay a pittance for a visa.
Of course, those eastern European hellholes were desperate for
revenue, and encouraged tourism for that reason.
Hellholes? How do you know that douglas? Desperate for money? How do
you know that? I paid about 3 Turkish lira for a visa which in those
days was slightly more than sweet *****-all. You're just parrotting the
***** that was drummed into you aren't you!
I was in Istanbul at the time and
travelled by bus through Bulgaria to Germany. And as far as the
western media and folklore was concerned the Soviet Union was a
completely closed society. No one got in or got out.
Did their own citizens get out, or were they routinely shot attempting
to escape? I've known several people who escaped from behind the Iron
Curtain, and they were very happy to be living their lives in the
United States.
There are millions still there too who didn't run and are quite happy.
Same with
'communist' China. Closed...where people are oppressed and live in
misery. I got news for ya matie...it's not at all like that. Some
political opponents have ended up in jail and yes they do trump up
charges on people who disagree with the state...but that happens in
America too.
Oh yeah, as if it's all equivalent. Do the words "Tiananmen Square"
mean anything to you? And how about this:
[excerpt] Limited legal and judicial reforms did little to improve
human rights protection. Tens of thousands of people continued to be
detained in violation of their human rights and were at risk of
torture or ill-treatment. Thousands of people were sentenced to death
or executed. The authorities frequently resorted to the use of force
against growing social unrest. There was a renewed crackdown on the
media and Internet controls were tightened. [end excerpt]
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/chn-summary-eng
I didn't say it was perfect you twat. I said that it's not like the
picture you have in your fat fuckin' head. And yes, America today is
an equivalent to what they accuse other police states and
dictatorships of being.
Just look at Gitmo...there are people, approx. 600, who
are held captive for absolutely no reason.
Most of them were picked up on the battlefield in Afghanistan. We also
held German prisoners over here during World War II. Was that for no
reason at all?
Some of them you mean. Others were picked up off the streets in
Afghanistan and Pakistan. And if this is a 'war' tyhen these guys
should have POW status. Yanks have also kidnapped some of the Gitmo
internees on the streets of some European countries and flew them to
Gitmo.
There's no justice there at
all. They even kidnap kids and incarcerate them taking them from their
homes and families and shipping them to Cuba to 're-educate' them.
As if that's something that happens on a routine basis? It was one
isolated incident (during Bill Clinton's presidency), and the person
the kid was returned to in Cuba was his *father* -- though personally,
I did not agree with sending the kid back to Cuba unless the father
was allowed to come here to pick him up. But of course Castro would
not allow the father to leave Cuba because Castro was afraid the
father would want to stay here.
I was referring to the Pakistani and Afghan kids held at Gitmo you
idiot!
No other country in the world demands from visitors what the yanks
demand. Not one!
Fuckin' pisses me off when I hear American politicians going on about
human rights abuses in other countries.
I have absolutely no problem with your choice to avoid the US. Did you
know we take in more immigrants every year than any other nation on
earth? And their appreciation for being part of this country is an
inspiration to me -- especially when I compare them to the various
ingrates who were born here and have no idea how good they have it (as
compared to some of the hellholes on this earth).
In numbers maybe. Per capita nowhere close to the top of the list:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_new_cit_percap-immigration-new-citizenships-per-capita
So go ***** yourself you disingeneous arsehole!
WH
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
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| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
23 Sep 2007 05:50:07 PM |
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On 23 Sep, 21:16, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"So go ***** yourself you disingeneous arsehole!"
Oh he's just Mr 'prim and proper', Chris. 2.4 children and a very
boring man.
I thought he had been raptured, but here he is again, pontificating in
his 'holier-than-thou' manner.
Werewolfy
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
29 Sep 2007 05:30:44 AM |
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On Sep 23, 6:50 pm, Werewolfy <Werewol...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 23 Sep, 21:16, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"So go ***** yourself you disingeneous arsehole!"
Oh he's just Mr 'prim and proper', Chris. 2.4 children and a very
boring man.
I thought he had been raptured, but here he is again, pontificating in
his 'holier-than-thou' manner.
Werewolfy
The chemical I am prepare for you is one for you to
pontificate you Douche Bag!!!
Brain on fire today yet?
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
23 Sep 2007 06:39:24 PM |
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On Sep 23, 1:16 pm, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 8:30 pm, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 7:03 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
It's ridiculous! Travelling to the Soviet Union in the 80's before it
broke up was a doddle compared to getting into yankieland. I went
through Bulgaria in 87 or so and all I had to do was go to the embassy
and pay a pittance for a visa.
Of course, those eastern European hellholes were desperate for
revenue, and encouraged tourism for that reason.
Hellholes? How do you know that douglas?
Because I can read! And I can talk to people I know who actually lived
in some of those hellholes. That's how I know.
Desperate for money? How do you know that?
Because those communist governments were always struggling with
stagnant economic conditions. Bulgaria figured out that they could
cash in with a tourist industry, and they did.
I paid about 3 Turkish lira for a visa which in those
days was slightly more than sweet *****-all.
Yes, they purposely kept that cost low to encourage tourism. And it
worked. I'm sure you spent some of your currency in Bulgaria while you
were there, didn't you? And so did millions of other tourists just
like you.
You're just parrotting the ***** that was drummed into
you aren't you!
Nothing has been "drummed" into me. I'm able to read and listen to
many different sources. I don't know what you agenda is, but you seem
to be in love with Communist regimes -- just as long as *your* freedom
is not impinged, right? But who cares about the many millions who have
suffered through the decades under communist tyranny, right?
I was in Istanbul at the time and
travelled by bus through Bulgaria to Germany. And as far as the
western media and folklore was concerned the Soviet Union was a
completely closed society. No one got in or got out.
Did their own citizens get out, or were they routinely shot attempting
to escape? I've known several people who escaped from behind the Iron
Curtain, and they were very happy to be living their lives in the
United States.
There are millions still there too who didn't run and are quite happy.
Yes, since they threw off their communist shackles.
Same with
'communist' China. Closed...where people are oppressed and live in
misery. I got news for ya matie...it's not at all like that. Some
political opponents have ended up in jail and yes they do trump up
charges on people who disagree with the state...but that happens in
America too.
Oh yeah, as if it's all equivalent. Do the words "Tiananmen Square"
mean anything to you? And how about this:
[excerpt] Limited legal and judicial reforms did little to improve
human rights protection. Tens of thousands of people continued to be
detained in violation of their human rights and were at risk of
torture or ill-treatment. Thousands of people were sentenced to death
or executed. The authorities frequently resorted to the use of force
against growing social unrest. There was a renewed crackdown on the
media and Internet controls were tightened. [end excerpt]
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/chn-summary-eng
I didn't say it was perfect you twat.
Nothing is perfect in this world. But some things are just not good.
And the way China treats many of its own people is just not good (as
shown in the Amnesty International article I posted above).
I said that it's not like the picture you have in your fat
fuckin' head.
Oh, you mean that picture of Tiananmen Square I have in my head?
And yes, America today is an equivalent to what they accuse
other police states and dictatorships of being.
Equivalent? You're an ignorant buffoon if you really believe that.
You're just a silly buffoon if you're only joking.
Just look at Gitmo...there are people, approx. 600, who
are held captive for absolutely no reason.
Most of them were picked up on the battlefield in Afghanistan. We also
held German prisoners over here during World War II. Was that for no
reason at all?
Some of them you mean. Others were picked up off the streets in
Afghanistan and Pakistan. And if this is a 'war' tyhen these guys
should have POW status.
Fine. POWs remain incarcerated for the duration of the hostilities. Is
that what you'd prefer? At least now many of the detainees have been
released so they can get back on the battlefield to fight another day.
I'd think that would make you happy!
Yanks have also kidnapped some of the Gitmo internees on the
streets of some European countries and flew them to Gitmo.
Yes, the rendition programs were begun by an executive order of
President Clinton in 1995, and continued by the Bush administration,
with the cooperation of several European governments (including
Sweden). I don't really like that program, but those detainees who
were found to be innocent have long since been released.
There's no justice there at
all. They even kidnap kids and incarcerate them taking them from their
homes and families and shipping them to Cuba to 're-educate' them.
As if that's something that happens on a routine basis? It was one
isolated incident (during Bill Clinton's presidency), and the person
the kid was returned to in Cuba was his *father* -- though personally,
I did not agree with sending the kid back to Cuba unless the father
was allowed to come here to pick him up. But of course Castro would
not allow the father to leave Cuba because Castro was afraid the
father would want to stay here.
I was referring to the Pakistani and Afghan kids held at Gitmo you
idiot!
I knew about three British teenagers who went first to Pakistan, and
then to Afghanistan, where they were captured by the Northern
Alliance, who turned them over to the US military who flew them to
Guantanamo. They have since been released.
No other country in the world demands from visitors what the yanks
demand. Not one!
Fuckin' pisses me off when I hear American politicians going on about
human rights abuses in other countries.
I have absolutely no problem with your choice to avoid the US. Did you
know we take in more immigrants every year than any other nation on
earth? And their appreciation for being part of this country is an
inspiration to me -- especially when I compare them to the various
ingrates who were born here and have no idea how good they have it (as
compared to some of the hellholes on this earth).
In numbers maybe.
No "maybe" about it. No other nation is even close in terms of
numbers.
Per capita nowhere close to the top of the list:
Also nowhere near the bottom of the list, either. We've got people
waiting in line to come here -- and we've got them crossing our border
illegally as well. We must be doing something right, though you'd
never admit it.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_new_cit_percap-immigration-new-...
So go ***** yourself you disingeneous arsehole!
Same to you, block head!
.
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| User: "WH" |
|
| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
25 Sep 2007 06:40:10 AM |
|
|
On 24 Sep, 01:39, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 1:16 pm, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 8:30 pm, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 7:03 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
It's ridiculous! Travelling to the Soviet Union in the 80's before it
broke up was a doddle compared to getting into yankieland. I went
through Bulgaria in 87 or so and all I had to do was go to the embassy
and pay a pittance for a visa.
Of course, those eastern European hellholes were desperate for
revenue, and encouraged tourism for that reason.
Hellholes? How do you know that douglas?
Because I can read! And I can talk to people I know who actually lived
in some of those hellholes. That's how I know.
OK so your knowledge of these countries is based on something you
read! Great. That means you know sweet ***** all except the opinions of
whoever wrote what you read...simple.
Desperate for money? How do you know that?
Because those communist governments were always struggling with
stagnant economic conditions. Bulgaria figured out that they could
cash in with a tourist industry, and they did.
You read this too I assume?
I paid about 3 Turkish lira for a visa which in those
days was slightly more than sweet *****-all.
Yes, they purposely kept that cost low to encourage tourism. And it
worked. I'm sure you spent some of your currency in Bulgaria while you
were there, didn't you? And so did millions of other tourists just
like you.
Nope! Nobody went to Bulgaria on holiday in those days...well maybe
some people but certainly not millions.
You're just parrotting the ***** that was drummed into
you aren't you!
Nothing has been "drummed" into me. I'm able to read and listen to
many different sources. I don't know what you agenda is, but you seem
to be in love with Communist regimes -- just as long as *your* freedom
is not impinged, right? But who cares about the many millions who have
suffered through the decades under communist tyranny, right?
***** what communism did or does. You refuse to accept that America is
heading in the direction of some of the countries they condemn, and I,
among others, say it is. That's what this thread is about. Not what
you're trying to twist it to be about...as you usually do.
I was in Istanbul at the time and
travelled by bus through Bulgaria to Germany. And as far as the
western media and folklore was concerned the Soviet Union was a
completely closed society. No one got in or got out.
Did their own citizens get out, or were they routinely shot attempting
to escape? I've known several people who escaped from behind the Iron
Curtain, and they were very happy to be living their lives in the
United States.
There are millions still there too who didn't run and are quite happy.
Yes, since they threw off their communist shackles.
Hey they were there during communism too. You trying to claim that the
whole of the Soviet Union wanted to run to the west?
Same with
'communist' China. Closed...where people are oppressed and live in
misery. I got news for ya matie...it's not at all like that. Some
political opponents have ended up in jail and yes they do trump up
charges on people who disagree with the state...but that happens in
America too.
Oh yeah, as if it's all equivalent. Do the words "Tiananmen Square"
mean anything to you? And how about this:
[excerpt] Limited legal and judicial reforms did little to improve
human rights protection. Tens of thousands of people continued to be
detained in violation of their human rights and were at risk of
torture or ill-treatment. Thousands of people were sentenced to death
or executed. The authorities frequently resorted to the use of force
against growing social unrest. There was a renewed crackdown on the
media and Internet controls were tightened. [end excerpt]
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/chn-summary-eng
I didn't say it was perfect you twat.
Nothing is perfect in this world. But some things are just not good.
And the way China treats many of its own people is just not good (as
shown in the Amnesty International article I posted above).
Amnesty also condemned Gitmo!
I said that it's not like the picture you have in your fat
fuckin' head.
Oh, you mean that picture of Tiananmen Square I have in my head?
That's the only picture you have in your head it seems. China is not
'Tiananmen Square'. There is much more to it than that.
And yes, America today is an equivalent to what they accuse
other police states and dictatorships of being.
Equivalent? You're an ignorant buffoon if you really believe that.
You're just a silly buffoon if you're only joking.
I'm serious. You see that refusal of yours to accept the truth about
America? That defending it you do all the time as soon as someone
points out it's negative sides? Well that's how all these so called
"terrorists" feel in Iraq and Afghanistan. They "refuse" to be
occupied by a foreign force. The principle is the exact same.
Just look at Gitmo...there are people, approx. 600, who
are held captive for absolutely no reason.
Most of them were picked up on the battlefield in Afghanistan. We also
held German prisoners over here during World War II. Was that for no
reason at all?
Some of them you mean. Others were picked up off the streets in
Afghanistan and Pakistan. And if this is a 'war' tyhen these guys
should have POW status.
Fine. POWs remain incarcerated for the duration of the hostilities. Is
that what you'd prefer? At least now many of the detainees have been
released so they can get back on the battlefield to fight another day.
I'd think that would make you happy!
The released ones were citizens of other countries in the imaginary
coalition of the willing.
Yanks have also kidnapped some of the Gitmo internees on the
streets of some European countries and flew them to Gitmo.
Yes, the rendition programs were begun by an executive order of
President Clinton in 1995, and continued by the Bush administration,
with the cooperation of several European governments (including
Sweden). I don't really like that program, but those detainees who
were found to be innocent have long since been released.
*****. Nobody got a fuckin' 'trial'. How could they have been found
innocent?
There's no justice there at
all. They even kidnap kids and incarcerate them taking them from their
homes and families and shipping them to Cuba to 're-educate' them.
As if that's something that happens on a routine basis? It was one
isolated incident (during Bill Clinton's presidency), and the person
the kid was returned to in Cuba was his *father* -- though personally,
I did not agree with sending the kid back to Cuba unless the father
was allowed to come here to pick him up. But of course Castro would
not allow the father to leave Cuba because Castro was afraid the
father would want to stay here.
I was referring to the Pakistani and Afghan kids held at Gitmo you
idiot!
I knew about three British teenagers who went first to Pakistan, and
then to Afghanistan, where they were captured by the Northern
Alliance, who turned them over to the US military who flew them to
Guantanamo. They have since been released.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,941876,00.html
No other country in the world demands from visitors what the yanks
demand. Not one!
Fuckin' pisses me off when I hear American politicians going on about
human rights abuses in other countries.
I have absolutely no problem with your choice to avoid the US. Did you
know we take in more immigrants every year than any other nation on
earth? And their appreciation for being part of this country is an
inspiration to me -- especially when I compare them to the various
ingrates who were born here and have no idea how good they have it (as
compared to some of the hellholes on this earth).
In numbers maybe.
No "maybe" about it. No other nation is even close in terms of
numbers.
Per capita nowhere close to the top of the list:
Also nowhere near the bottom of the list, either. We've got people
waiting in line to come here -- and we've got them crossing our border
illegally as well. We must be doing something right, though you'd
never admit it.
But it's hardly "...no other country in the world.." is it douglas. Oh
and illegal immigrants don't count in this simply because you don't
'let' them come in.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_new_cit_percap-immigration-new-...
WH
.
|
|
|
| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
25 Sep 2007 10:12:30 PM |
|
|
On Sep 25, 4:40 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 24 Sep, 01:39, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 1:16 pm, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 8:30 pm, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 7:03 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
It's ridiculous! Travelling to the Soviet Union in the 80's before it
broke up was a doddle compared to getting into yankieland. I went
through Bulgaria in 87 or so and all I had to do was go to the
embassy and pay a pittance for a visa.
Of course, those eastern European hellholes were desperate for
revenue, and encouraged tourism for that reason.
Hellholes? How do you know that douglas?
Because I can read! And I can talk to people I know who actually lived
in some of those hellholes. That's how I know.
OK so your knowledge of these countries is based on something you
read! Great. That means you know sweet ***** all except the opinions of
whoever wrote what you read...simple.
I notice you ignored the part where I said I have known people who
lived behind the Iron Curtain before escaping. Does that count for
anything, or is that why you ignored that part?
Desperate for money? How do you know that?
Because those communist governments were always struggling with
stagnant economic conditions. Bulgaria figured out that they could
cash in with a tourist industry, and they did.
You read this too I assume?
It's documented history. Why don't you read a book and educate
yourself?
I paid about 3 Turkish lira for a visa which in those
days was slightly more than sweet *****-all.
Yes, they purposely kept that cost low to encourage tourism. And it
worked. I'm sure you spent some of your currency in Bulgaria while you
were there, didn't you? And so did millions of other tourists just
like you.
Nope! Nobody went to Bulgaria on holiday in those days...well maybe
some people but certainly not millions.
Wrong. It was millions. Read a book.
You're just parrotting the ***** that was drummed into
you aren't you!
Nothing has been "drummed" into me. I'm able to read and listen to
many different sources. I don't know what you agenda is, but you seem
to be in love with Communist regimes -- just as long as *your* freedom
is not impinged, right? But who cares about the many millions who have
suffered through the decades under communist tyranny, right?
***** what communism did or does.
As I figured, you don't care about the millions who have suffered
under communist tyranny through the decades. Thanks for confirming
that.
You refuse to accept that America is heading in the direction of some
of the countries they condemn, and I, among others, say it is.
When we have some version of Tiananmen Square, on that scale, feel
free to make your silly comparisons. When we put people in prison for
their political beliefs, feel free to make your silly comparisons.
When we put restrictions on political speech, feel free to make your
silly comparisons.
That's what this thread is about. Not what you're trying to twist
it to be about...as you usually do.
I'm just showing how ridiculous you are. Thanks for your cooperation.
I was in Istanbul at the time and
travelled by bus through Bulgaria to Germany. And as far as the
western media and folklore was concerned the Soviet Union was a
completely closed society. No one got in or got out.
Did their own citizens get out, or were they routinely shot attempting
to escape? I've known several people who escaped from behind the Iron
Curtain, and they were very happy to be living their lives in the
United States.
There are millions still there too who didn't run and are quite happy.
Yes, since they threw off their communist shackles.
Hey they were there during communism too. You trying to claim that the
whole of the Soviet Union wanted to run to the west?
No, but there were many who wanted to and couldn't. That place was
like a giant prison. Most had no freedom to travel the way you do, a
luxury you apparently take for granted.
Same with
'communist' China. Closed...where people are oppressed and live in
misery. I got news for ya matie...it's not at all like that. Some
political opponents have ended up in jail and yes they do trump up
charges on people who disagree with the state...but that happens in
America too.
Oh yeah, as if it's all equivalent. Do the words "Tiananmen Square"
mean anything to you? And how about this:
[excerpt] Limited legal and judicial reforms did little to improve
human rights protection. Tens of thousands of people continued to be
detained in violation of their human rights and were at risk of
torture or ill-treatment. Thousands of people were sentenced to death
or executed. The authorities frequently resorted to the use of force
against growing social unrest. There was a renewed crackdown on the
media and Internet controls were tightened. [end excerpt]
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/chn-summary-eng
I didn't say it was perfect you twat.
Nothing is perfect in this world. But some things are just not good.
And the way China treats many of its own people is just not good (as
shown in the Amnesty International article I posted above).
Amnesty also condemned Gitmo!
That's your answer for the way China treats its own people? Tens of
thousands of people in China are suffering under their government's
tyranny, and your defense of your beloved China is to bring up Gitmo?
I'll concede that mistakes have been made in conjunction with Gitmo,
but we're talking about a small number of people who were mistakenly
put there before being released -- while we're talking tens of
thousands of people in China who have been systematically mistreated
by their own government.
I said that it's not like the picture you have in your fat
fuckin' head.
Oh, you mean that picture of Tiananmen Square I have in my head?
That's the only picture you have in your head it seems. China is not
'Tiananmen Square'.
Yes, they frequently do the same thing on a smaller scale (according
to Amesty International).
There is much more to it than that.
Tiananmen Square was a major event -- which you'd apparently like to
sweep under the rug and ignore.
And yes, America today is an equivalent to what they accuse
other police states and dictatorships of being.
Equivalent? You're an ignorant buffoon if you really believe that.
You're just a silly buffoon if you're only joking.
I'm serious. You see that refusal of yours to accept the truth about
America?
That we're "equivalent" to what we accuse "other" police states and
dictatorships of being? That's "truth" in your world? Obviously your
brain has been soaked in alcohol for too long. Seek help immediately.
That defending it you do all the time as soon as someone
points out it's negative sides? Well that's how all these so called
"terrorists" feel in Iraq and Afghanistan. They "refuse" to be
occupied by a foreign force. The principle is the exact same.
So that's why they blow up their own people? And you defend that?
You're a strange man, bub.
Just look at Gitmo...there are people, approx. 600, who
are held captive for absolutely no reason.
Most of them were picked up on the battlefield in Afghanistan. We also
held German prisoners over here during World War II. Was that for no
reason at all?
Some of them you mean. Others were picked up off the streets in
Afghanistan and Pakistan. And if this is a 'war' tyhen these guys
should have POW status.
Fine. POWs remain incarcerated for the duration of the hostilities. Is
that what you'd prefer? At least now many of the detainees have been
released so they can get back on the battlefield to fight another day.
I'd think that would make you happy!
The released ones were citizens of other countries in the imaginary
coalition of the willing.
Some of the released ones have been recaptured on the battlefield.
Yanks have also kidnapped some of the Gitmo internees on the
streets of some European countries and flew them to Gitmo.
Yes, the rendition programs were begun by an executive order of
President Clinton in 1995, and continued by the Bush administration,
with the cooperation of several European governments (including
Sweden). I don't really like that program, but those detainees who
were found to be innocent have long since been released.
*****. Nobody got a fuckin' 'trial'. How could they have been found
innocent?
They've all had hearings. And they get frequent reviews of their cases
as long as they're there. And that's why so many have been released.
There's no justice there at all.
They even kidnap kids and incarcerate them taking them from their
homes and families and shipping them to Cuba to 're-educate' them.
As if that's something that happens on a routine basis? It was one
isolated incident (during Bill Clinton's presidency), and the person
the kid was returned to in Cuba was his *father* -- though personally,
I did not agree with sending the kid back to Cuba unless the father
was allowed to come here to pick him up. But of course Castro would
not allow the father to leave Cuba because Castro was afraid the
father would want to stay here.
I was referring to the Pakistani and Afghan kids held at Gitmo you
idiot!
I knew about three British teenagers who went first to Pakistan, and
then to Afghanistan, where they were captured by the Northern
Alliance, who turned them over to the US military who flew them to
Guantanamo. They have since been released.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,941876,00.html
That article is four and a half years old. Do you have an update?
No other country in the world demands from visitors what the yanks
demand. Not one!
Fuckin' pisses me off when I hear American politicians going on about
human rights abuses in other countries.
I have absolutely no problem with your choice to avoid the US. Did you
know we take in more immigrants every year than any other nation on
earth? And their appreciation for being part of this country is an
inspiration to me -- especially when I compare them to the various
ingrates who were born here and have no idea how good they have it (as
compared to some of the hellholes on this earth).
In numbers maybe.
No "maybe" about it. No other nation is even close in terms of
numbers.
Per capita nowhere close to the top of the list:
Also nowhere near the bottom of the list, either. We've got people
waiting in line to come here -- and we've got them crossing our border
illegally as well. We must be doing something right, though you'd
never admit it.
But it's hardly "...no other country in the world.." is it douglas.
No other country in the world? Not sure what that means, but our total
number of immigrants far exceeds any other country.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_new_cit_percap-immigration-new-...
Oh and illegal immigrants don't count in this simply because you
don't 'let' them come in.
My point was the large number of people who want to come here any way
they can. We must be doing something right, though you'd never admit
it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Docrodile" |
|
| Title: Re: Paranoid America |
27 Sep 2007 08:28:52 AM |
|
|
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190776350.868205.147290@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 25, 4:40 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 24 Sep, 01:39, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 1:16 pm, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 8:30 pm, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 23, 7:03 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
It's ridiculous! Travelling to the Soviet Union in the 80's
before it
broke up was a doddle compared to getting into yankieland. I
went
through Bulgaria in 87 or so and all I had to do was go to the
embassy and pay a pittance for a visa.
Of course, those eastern European hellholes were desperate for
revenue, and encouraged tourism for that reason.
Hellholes? How do you know that douglas?
Because I can read! And I can talk to people I know who actually
lived
in some of those hellholes. That's how I know.
OK so your knowledge of these countries is based on something you
read! Great. That means you know sweet ***** all except the opinions of
whoever wrote what you read...simple.
I notice you ignored the part where I said I have known people who
lived behind the Iron Curtain before escaping. Does that count for
anything, or is that why you ignored that part?
Desperate for money? How do you know that?
Because those communist governments were always struggling with
stagnant economic conditions. Bulgaria figured out that they could
cash in with a tourist industry, and they did.
You read this too I assume?
It's documented history. Why don't you read a book and educate
yourself?
I paid about 3 Turkish lira for a visa which in those
days was slightly more than sweet *****-all.
Yes, they purposely kept that cost low to encourage tourism. And it
worked. I'm sure you spent some of your currency in Bulgaria while
you
were there, didn't you? And so did millions of other tourists just
like you.
Nope! Nobody went to Bulgaria on holiday in those days...well maybe
some people but certainly not millions.
Wrong. It was millions. Read a book.
You're just parrotting the ***** that was drummed into
you aren't you!
Nothing has been "drummed" into me. I'm able to read and listen to
many different sources. I don't know what you agenda is, but you seem
to be in love with Communist regimes -- just as long as *your*
freedom
is not impinged, right? But who cares about the many millions who
have
suffered through the decades under communist tyranny, right?
***** what communism did or does.
As I figured, you don't care about the millions who have suffered
under communist tyranny through the decades. Thanks for confirming
that.
You refuse to accept that America is heading in the direction of some
of the countries they condemn, and I, among others, say it is.
When we have some version of Tiananmen Square, on that scale, feel
free to make your silly comparisons. When we put people in prison for
their political beliefs, feel free to make your silly comparisons.
When we put restrictions on political speech, feel free to make your
silly comparisons.
That's what this thread is about. Not what you're trying to twist
it to be about...as you usually do.
I'm just showing how ridiculous you are. Thanks for your cooperation.
I was in Istanbul at the time and
travelled by bus through Bulgaria to Germany. And as far as the
western media and folklore was concerned the Soviet Union was a
completely closed society. No one got in or got out.
Did their own citizens get out, or were they routinely shot
attempting
to escape? I've known several people who escaped from behind the
Iron
Curtain, and they were very happy to be living their lives in the
United States.
There are millions still there too who didn't run and are quite
happy.
Yes, since they threw off their communist shackles.
Hey they were there during communism too. You trying to claim that the
whole of the Soviet Union wanted to run to the west?
No, but there were many who wanted to and couldn't. That place was
like a giant prison. Most had no freedom to travel the way you do, a
luxury you apparently take for granted.
Same with
'communist' China. Closed...where people are oppressed and live
in
misery. I got news for ya matie...it's not at all like that.
Some
political opponents have ended up in jail and yes they do trump
up
charges on people who disagree with the state...but that
happens in
America too.
Oh yeah, as if it's all equivalent. Do the words "Tiananmen
Square"
mean anything to you? And how about this:
[excerpt] Limited legal and judicial reforms did little to
improve
human rights protection. Tens of thousands of people continued to
be
detained in violation of their human rights and were at risk of
torture or ill-treatment. Thousands of people were sentenced to
death
or executed. The authorities frequently resorted to the use of
force
against growing social unrest. There was a renewed crackdown on
the
media and Internet controls were tightened. [end excerpt]
http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/chn-summary-eng
| | | | | | | | | |
