| Topic: |
Science > Prophecies-Of-Nostradamus |
| User: |
"Arnold Holbrook" |
| Date: |
04 Jul 2004 09:05:18 AM |
| Object: |
QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
.
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
04 Jul 2004 12:09:00 PM |
|
|
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
I have also heard about the Cree, but I am not sure how the natives
out west feel. There is also a movement allow Quebec to have only
what they owned at the time of Confederation. I.E., a narrow strip
along the St. Lawrence. The English in the Eastern Townships have a
problem with being forced to separate.
I think a full separation is more likely out west, to be honest.
Quebec wants some independence, but wants to retain their financial
ties. They know which side their bread is buttered on! Ontario,
Alberta and BC are the three provinces that pay more in taxes than
they receive. We basically subsidize the "have-not" provinces,
including (especially!) Quebec.
Jane
.
|
|
|
| User: "camelopardalis" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
04 Jul 2004 12:48:17 PM |
|
|
I can't wait till cancer takes you, *****! Then you will truly see how
important all these material things are!
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:j3ege09nlaohmhnlgj0ujrc9jv71de6vmr@4ax.com...
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
I have also heard about the Cree, but I am not sure how the natives
out west feel. There is also a movement allow Quebec to have only
what they owned at the time of Confederation. I.E., a narrow strip
along the St. Lawrence. The English in the Eastern Townships have a
problem with being forced to separate.
I think a full separation is more likely out west, to be honest.
Quebec wants some independence, but wants to retain their financial
ties. They know which side their bread is buttered on! Ontario,
Alberta and BC are the three provinces that pay more in taxes than
they receive. We basically subsidize the "have-not" provinces,
including (especially!) Quebec.
Jane
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jean Guernon" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel aboutWestern succession? |
04 Jul 2004 06:29:49 PM |
|
|
Jane a écrit:
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
I have also heard about the Cree, but I am not sure how the natives
out west feel. There is also a movement allow Quebec to have only
what they owned at the time of Confederation. I.E., a narrow strip
along the St. Lawrence. The English in the Eastern Townships have a
problem with being forced to separate.
I think a full separation is more likely out west, to be honest.
Quebec wants some independence, but wants to retain their financial
ties. They know which side their bread is buttered on! Ontario,
Alberta and BC are the three provinces that pay more in taxes than
they receive. We basically subsidize the "have-not" provinces,
including (especially!) Quebec.
Jane
You have no clue Jane, I didn't know to what extent since you seemed to
have a hold on the Greens policies against corporate welfare (while
promoting guaranteed minimum revenue to all).
Check what each province pays and what they get back, you obviously have
no clue.
http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/mtpe.html
In fact it is utter non-sense you spread, it is the opposite that
motivates the BQ to separate, they pretend that it cost more to be part
of Canada. I gather you kiss the butt of Harper.
Mind you the BQ is no better, they lie as much, notwithstanding that its
very existence is an insult, and can only turn the rest of Canada
against Quebec, they are very dishonest too about why they do it. They
too wanted Harper, but all along the campaign,. they pretended that
voting for them was to defend the value of Quebec, not a vote for
sovereignty, yet, right after they said that it was a victory for
sovereignty. What they wanted was Harper in power because it would have
been all losers with your rhetoric's here, and Quebeckers would have
been inclined to vote for them. It didn't work, thank God.
But the government, the only possible legitimate one between the three
it appears, says that there is no disproportion given to Quebec.
Check it out, the rich Ontario gets 16 billions, and Quebec who
contributes relatively as much (appr. 25% each) gets... 13 billions in
transfer.
Lies like that are shameful on apn. On other NGs, well, they are common,
here, they deserve only to be denounced.
Wake the hell up.
J.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
04 Jul 2004 07:06:57 PM |
|
|
"Jean Guernon" <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message
news:Np0Gc.19043297$Of.3158693@news.easynews.com...
Jane a écrit:
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
I have also heard about the Cree, but I am not sure how the natives
out west feel. There is also a movement allow Quebec to have only
what they owned at the time of Confederation. I.E., a narrow strip
along the St. Lawrence. The English in the Eastern Townships have a
problem with being forced to separate.
I think a full separation is more likely out west, to be honest.
Quebec wants some independence, but wants to retain their financial
ties. They know which side their bread is buttered on! Ontario,
Alberta and BC are the three provinces that pay more in taxes than
they receive. We basically subsidize the "have-not" provinces,
including (especially!) Quebec.
Jane
You have no clue Jane, I didn't know to what extent since you seemed to
have a hold on the Greens policies against corporate welfare (while
promoting guaranteed minimum revenue to all).
Check what each province pays and what they get back, you obviously have
no clue.
http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/mtpe.html
In fact it is utter non-sense you spread, it is the opposite that
motivates the BQ to separate, they pretend that it cost more to be part
of Canada. I gather you kiss the butt of Harper.
Mind you the BQ is no better, they lie as much, notwithstanding that its
very existence is an insult, and can only turn the rest of Canada
against Quebec, they are very dishonest too about why they do it. They
too wanted Harper, but all along the campaign,. they pretended that
voting for them was to defend the value of Quebec, not a vote for
sovereignty, yet, right after they said that it was a victory for
sovereignty. What they wanted was Harper in power because it would have
been all losers with your rhetoric's here, and Quebeckers would have
been inclined to vote for them. It didn't work, thank God.
But the government, the only possible legitimate one between the three
it appears, says that there is no disproportion given to Quebec.
Check it out, the rich Ontario gets 16 billions, and Quebec who
contributes relatively as much (appr. 25% each) gets... 13 billions in
transfer.
Lies like that are shameful on apn. On other NGs, well, they are common,
here, they deserve only to be denounced.
Wake the hell up.
J.
I have made no secret of the fact that I voted for Harper, Jean! I do not
kiss anyone's butt, however. I also feel that, as much as I love Quebec, if
they want to separate, then really separate! None of this
soveignty-association crap, which is wanting the best of both worlds.
No where did I say that the richer provinces shouldn't assist the poorer
ones, but a certain province always wants more, more, more...and uses the
separation threat to get their way. It has been happening for years.
Jane
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jean Guernon" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel aboutWestern succession? |
05 Jul 2004 12:44:21 PM |
|
|
Jane a écrit:
"Jean Guernon" <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message
news:Np0Gc.19043297$Of.3158693@news.easynews.com...
Jane a écrit:
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
I have also heard about the Cree, but I am not sure how the natives
out west feel. There is also a movement allow Quebec to have only
what they owned at the time of Confederation. I.E., a narrow strip
along the St. Lawrence. The English in the Eastern Townships have a
problem with being forced to separate.
I think a full separation is more likely out west, to be honest.
Quebec wants some independence, but wants to retain their financial
ties. They know which side their bread is buttered on! Ontario,
Alberta and BC are the three provinces that pay more in taxes than
they receive. We basically subsidize the "have-not" provinces,
including (especially!) Quebec.
Jane
You have no clue Jane, I didn't know to what extent since you seemed to
have a hold on the Greens policies against corporate welfare (while
promoting guaranteed minimum revenue to all).
Check what each province pays and what they get back, you obviously have
no clue.
http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/mtpe.html
In fact it is utter non-sense you spread, it is the opposite that
motivates the BQ to separate, they pretend that it cost more to be part
of Canada. I gather you kiss the butt of Harper.
Mind you the BQ is no better, they lie as much, notwithstanding that its
very existence is an insult, and can only turn the rest of Canada
against Quebec, they are very dishonest too about why they do it. They
too wanted Harper, but all along the campaign,. they pretended that
voting for them was to defend the value of Quebec, not a vote for
sovereignty, yet, right after they said that it was a victory for
sovereignty. What they wanted was Harper in power because it would have
been all losers with your rhetoric's here, and Quebeckers would have
been inclined to vote for them. It didn't work, thank God.
But the government, the only possible legitimate one between the three
it appears, says that there is no disproportion given to Quebec.
Check it out, the rich Ontario gets 16 billions, and Quebec who
contributes relatively as much (appr. 25% each) gets... 13 billions in
transfer.
Lies like that are shameful on apn. On other NGs, well, they are common,
here, they deserve only to be denounced.
Wake the hell up.
J.
I have made no secret of the fact that I voted for Harper, Jean! I do not
kiss anyone's butt, however. I also feel that, as much as I love Quebec, if
they want to separate, then really separate! None of this
soveignty-association crap, which is wanting the best of both worlds.
It is the only acceptable solution, sovereignty association. Canada is
based on two founding nations. We are two nations (plus the first
nations). It should be recognize that it is what is making this country.
Quebec could be a country but it would break up Canada. The ROC wouldn't
have any diversity to offer, it would be assimilated in no time. Not
Quebec. Never Quebec, whether they stay in Canada or not.
Now if Quebec let his language laws go it would become Louisiana in no
time. But they won't, they want to be themselves, in their country
(Canada). To deny them this is like considering them still a colonized
nation. It is the failure of Meech Lake that gives the strength to
independentists. It is the shame of Canada.
You cannot not see that?
No where did I say that the richer provinces shouldn't assist the poorer
ones, but a certain province always wants more, more, more...and uses the
separation threat to get their way. It has been happening for years.
Jane
No, Quebec doesn't get more than its fair share in any scenario, you
make it sounds like we are in it for the money, it is absolutely false,
wee would be much better off outside Canada for the money, in as much as
the actual economic situation remains the same and there is no political
backlash. This is part of the big lie.
The problem is social, though. there is an identity that makes Canada
competitive against the mightiest nation on earth who still has no
universal medicare or social safety net. All based on the kind of
prejudices you spew, lies about economic disparity, that politically
allows a distribution of wealth that goes back to the big pockets. And
it is generalized down there.
Anyway, you should refrain from talking about our country if it is to
repeat the lies of your politicians. Me I could do it too, but I would
never do such thing. I have been Finance shadow minister for the Greens,
a while back I grant you, still, I look into actual figures before I
trust a statement by any politician, but especially by the two extremes
(Reform/BQ) that tear Canada apart, or by those who pretend to socially
give the best of both world building social houses for the less
fortunate (it is one thing to give them a little more to find some
place, and another to spend for building new million dollars multiplex
houses to shelter them) but end up making huge deficits and putting it
on the credit card of the country (NDP).
Me I am a Green but I am realist, i know that they are not even allowed
to speak at the chiefs debate (which is an absolute shame), that there
is no electoral legislation yet that will allow proportional
representation, we are not allowed on the Canadian scene. The Liberals
are the next best thing, they take into consideration the interest of
the real people behind the other 3 extremes without letting them tear
the country apart, and keep the Canada together.
Now, if there wasn'T as much prejudice in the ROC, which you are
demonstrating even trying to tell me you don't have any, (it's not your
fault, you all think these lies are facts - same here in some respect
for independentists), maybe there would be more love for the country and
less risk of a break up...
J.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jean Guernon" |
|
| Title: the graph explaining you Harper's lies Re: QQ for Jane: How do CanadianNative American groups feel about Western succession? |
04 Jul 2004 07:11:31 PM |
|
|
Jean Guernon a écrit:
Jane a écrit:
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
I have also heard about the Cree, but I am not sure how the natives
out west feel. There is also a movement allow Quebec to have only
what they owned at the time of Confederation. I.E., a narrow strip
along the St. Lawrence. The English in the Eastern Townships have a
problem with being forced to separate.
I think a full separation is more likely out west, to be honest.
Quebec wants some independence, but wants to retain their financial
ties. They know which side their bread is buttered on! Ontario,
Alberta and BC are the three provinces that pay more in taxes than
they receive. We basically subsidize the "have-not" provinces,
including (especially!) Quebec.
Jane
You have no clue Jane, I didn't know to what extent since you seemed to
have a hold on the Greens policies against corporate welfare (while
promoting guaranteed minimum revenue to all).
Check what each province pays and what they get back, you obviously have
no clue.
http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/mtpe.html
In fact check what it gives per capita, Ontario makes a bit more and
gets a bit less per capita, you'll see that Western province like
Manitoba receive a lot more.
True, Alberta with its huge oil revenu gets less. But that is what
Canada is about, caring for all. Those who receive the most, per capita
Buit to pretend that Quebec doesn<t receive its just part, that it
receive a whole lot more, is not only a lie, it is an unsult.
Let's see in detail:
Newfoundland and Labrador $2,510 per person
Prince Edward Island $2,892 per person
Nova Scotia $2,406 per person
New Brunswick $2,682 per person
Quebec $1,738 per person
Ontario $1,302 per person
Manitoba $2,329 per person
Saskatchewan $1,632 per person
Alberta $1,302 per person
British Columbia $1,450 per person
Yukon $15,196 per person
Northwest Territories $16,262 per person
The only ones who get less than Quebec are Alberta, British Columbia and
Ontario with saskatchewan appr the same...
I should remind you that equalization payments are made to the provinces
with revenue-raising capacity below the standard to bring their total
fiscal capacity, including equalization payments, fully up to the
standard. It is the nature of the program that when a province’s ability
to raise revenues increases, its equalization entitlement will decline
accordingly.
See it in picture
http://www.fin.gc.ca/budget04/images/bpa6_2e.gif
and figure it out. INCREDIBLE what you say about Quebec. AND NOT TRUE!
Do you admit it now?
Do you want a country where the richest get less and the poorest get a
bit more based on Canadian resources (and Quebec is nowhere near either)
or do you want a country based on hatred and the lies of Harper?
J.
In fact it is utter non-sense you spread, it is the opposite that
motivates the BQ to separate, they pretend that it cost more to be part
of Canada. I gather you kiss the butt of Harper.
Mind you the BQ is no better, they lie as much, notwithstanding that its
very existence is an insult, and can only turn the rest of Canada
against Quebec, they are very dishonest too about why they do it. They
too wanted Harper, but all along the campaign,. they pretended that
voting for them was to defend the value of Quebec, not a vote for
sovereignty, yet, right after they said that it was a victory for
sovereignty. What they wanted was Harper in power because it would have
been all losers with your rhetoric's here, and Quebeckers would have
been inclined to vote for them. It didn't work, thank God.
But the government, the only possible legitimate one between the three
it appears, says that there is no disproportion given to Quebec.
Check it out, the rich Ontario gets 16 billions, and Quebec who
contributes relatively as much (appr. 25% each) gets... 13 billions in
transfer.
Lies like that are shameful on apn. On other NGs, well, they are common,
here, they deserve only to be denounced.
Wake the hell up.
J.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: the graph explaining you Harper's lies Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
04 Jul 2004 07:33:03 PM |
|
|
"Jean Guernon" <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message
news:T01Gc.21374$ef4.2349@news.easynews.com...
Jean Guernon a écrit:
Jane a écrit:
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
I have also heard about the Cree, but I am not sure how the natives
out west feel. There is also a movement allow Quebec to have only
what they owned at the time of Confederation. I.E., a narrow strip
along the St. Lawrence. The English in the Eastern Townships have a
problem with being forced to separate.
I think a full separation is more likely out west, to be honest.
Quebec wants some independence, but wants to retain their financial
ties. They know which side their bread is buttered on! Ontario,
Alberta and BC are the three provinces that pay more in taxes than
they receive. We basically subsidize the "have-not" provinces,
including (especially!) Quebec.
Jane
You have no clue Jane, I didn't know to what extent since you seemed to
have a hold on the Greens policies against corporate welfare (while
promoting guaranteed minimum revenue to all).
Check what each province pays and what they get back, you obviously have
no clue.
http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/mtpe.html
In fact check what it gives per capita, Ontario makes a bit more and
gets a bit less per capita, you'll see that Western province like
Manitoba receive a lot more.
True, Alberta with its huge oil revenu gets less. But that is what
Canada is about, caring for all. Those who receive the most, per capita
Buit to pretend that Quebec doesn<t receive its just part, that it
receive a whole lot more, is not only a lie, it is an unsult.
Let's see in detail:
Newfoundland and Labrador $2,510 per person
Prince Edward Island $2,892 per person
Nova Scotia $2,406 per person
New Brunswick $2,682 per person
Quebec $1,738 per person
Ontario $1,302 per person
Manitoba $2,329 per person
Saskatchewan $1,632 per person
Alberta $1,302 per person
British Columbia $1,450 per person
Yukon $15,196 per person
Northwest Territories $16,262 per person
The only ones who get less than Quebec are Alberta, British Columbia and
Ontario with saskatchewan appr the same...
I should remind you that equalization payments are made to the provinces
with revenue-raising capacity below the standard to bring their total
fiscal capacity, including equalization payments, fully up to the
standard. It is the nature of the program that when a province’s ability
to raise revenues increases, its equalization entitlement will decline
accordingly.
See it in picture
http://www.fin.gc.ca/budget04/images/bpa6_2e.gif
and figure it out. INCREDIBLE what you say about Quebec. AND NOT TRUE!
Do you admit it now?
Do you want a country where the richest get less and the poorest get a
bit more based on Canadian resources (and Quebec is nowhere near either)
or do you want a country based on hatred and the lies of Harper?
J.
I said in my previous post that I do not think it is wrong for the richer
provinces to support the poorer ones. there is definitely a perception in
the ROC that Quebec gets more than its share. Even things like Air Canada
having to keep its head office in Montreal and Bombardier getting contracts
over Canadair. It doesn't help that we had 11 years under Cretien, who is
about as crooked as they come and obviously funnelled money to Quebec, which
is what the whole sponsorship scandal is about! I said before that I like
Paul Martin...but I did vote for Harper. I liked Mike Harris as premier,
too, and was hoping he would run for conservative leader.
I think I gave you the impression that I hate Quebec, but that is the
furthest thing from the truth. I grew up there and I loved it there! I
just don't believe they will ever separate, because they don't want to break
the financial ties. They have said as much and it must be working for them
or they would not feel that way.
Jane
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jean Guernon" |
|
| Title: Re: the graph explaining you Harper's lies Re: QQ for Jane: How doCanadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
05 Jul 2004 12:18:23 PM |
|
|
Jane a écrit:
"Jean Guernon" <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message
news:T01Gc.21374$ef4.2349@news.easynews.com...
Jean Guernon a écrit:
Jane a écrit:
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
I have also heard about the Cree, but I am not sure how the natives
out west feel. There is also a movement allow Quebec to have only
what they owned at the time of Confederation. I.E., a narrow strip
along the St. Lawrence. The English in the Eastern Townships have a
problem with being forced to separate.
I think a full separation is more likely out west, to be honest.
Quebec wants some independence, but wants to retain their financial
ties. They know which side their bread is buttered on! Ontario,
Alberta and BC are the three provinces that pay more in taxes than
they receive. We basically subsidize the "have-not" provinces,
including (especially!) Quebec.
Jane
You have no clue Jane, I didn't know to what extent since you seemed to
have a hold on the Greens policies against corporate welfare (while
promoting guaranteed minimum revenue to all).
Check what each province pays and what they get back, you obviously have
no clue.
http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/mtpe.html
In fact check what it gives per capita, Ontario makes a bit more and
gets a bit less per capita, you'll see that Western province like
Manitoba receive a lot more.
True, Alberta with its huge oil revenu gets less. But that is what
Canada is about, caring for all. Those who receive the most, per capita
Buit to pretend that Quebec doesn<t receive its just part, that it
receive a whole lot more, is not only a lie, it is an unsult.
Let's see in detail:
Newfoundland and Labrador $2,510 per person
Prince Edward Island $2,892 per person
Nova Scotia $2,406 per person
New Brunswick $2,682 per person
Quebec $1,738 per person
Ontario $1,302 per person
Manitoba $2,329 per person
Saskatchewan $1,632 per person
Alberta $1,302 per person
British Columbia $1,450 per person
Yukon $15,196 per person
Northwest Territories $16,262 per person
The only ones who get less than Quebec are Alberta, British Columbia and
Ontario with saskatchewan appr the same...
I should remind you that equalization payments are made to the provinces
with revenue-raising capacity below the standard to bring their total
fiscal capacity, including equalization payments, fully up to the
standard. It is the nature of the program that when a province’s ability
to raise revenues increases, its equalization entitlement will decline
accordingly.
See it in picture
http://www.fin.gc.ca/budget04/images/bpa6_2e.gif
and figure it out. INCREDIBLE what you say about Quebec. AND NOT TRUE!
Do you admit it now?
Do you want a country where the richest get less and the poorest get a
bit more based on Canadian resources (and Quebec is nowhere near either)
or do you want a country based on hatred and the lies of Harper?
J.
I said in my previous post that I do not think it is wrong for the richer
provinces to support the poorer ones. there is definitely a perception in
the ROC that Quebec gets more than its share. Even things like Air Canada
having to keep its head office in Montreal and Bombardier getting contracts
over Canadair. It doesn't help that we had 11 years under Cretien, who is
about as crooked as they come and obviously funnelled money to Quebec, which
is what the whole sponsorship scandal is about! I said before that I like
Paul Martin...but I did vote for Harper. I liked Mike Harris as premier,
too, and was hoping he would run for conservative leader.
I think I gave you the impression that I hate Quebec, but that is the
furthest thing from the truth. I grew up there and I loved it there! I
just don't believe they will ever separate, because they don't want to break
the financial ties. They have said as much and it must be working for them
or they would not feel that way.
Jane
What you said is: "We basically subsidize the "have-not" provinces,
including (especially!) Quebec."
This is absolutely false, there are the haves, the have nots, and Quebec
is prety much in between, gets less than all provinces except for
Ontario, BC and Alberta, who have more resources. And Saskatchewan who
is equivalent. This is not true, we subsidize "especially Quebec".
Yes there is a big aeronautic industry expertise in Quebec with
industries like Bombardier have been making its plane in Montreal for
several decades. Canadair is in Montreal too buildign them, BTW. To make
it as if this was somehow a favor out of the blue is absolutely unjust.
And the commandites is indeed not something that the liberals or Quebec
planned, they are victims of it by unscrupulous contractors, and will go
to the bottiom of it. Now Harris is really a neo-liberal that is there
just to destroy social programs and to virtually americanize the Ontario
economy. I'll grant you that after the NDP irresponsible deficits he had
hard choice to make to pay the dozen of billions additional debt. But he
is taking the approach of the US, subsidizing the big corporation and
cuting off the less fortunate. But this is nothing given its history
with the NDP, the worst is Alberta, domestically I mean. They are the
ones that get the most out of their Canadian natural resources, Klein
could insure a high minimum guaranteed revenue, instead he really makes
it very hard for people who are not rich to even survive there. It is
the least that they contribute their fair share to Canada. And no, their
money doesn'T go to Quebec. As I have shown you, Quebec ans Saskatchewan
are about he only ones that gets in proportion of what they give in the
system. They support the less rich provinces, but yes, they ALWAYS blame
Quebec with lies. Which you pick up.
But you know all that. I wish you would leave the rpejudice outside the
NG when you come here to talk about Quebec, make the nuances. Not dump
their poison as if it was yours.
These lies fuel the other assholes of the equation. The BQers.
J.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
05 Jul 2004 07:23:57 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 13:09:00 -0400, Jane <pushlinque@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
I have also heard about the Cree, but I am not sure how the natives
out west feel. There is also a movement allow Quebec to have only
what they owned at the time of Confederation. I.E., a narrow strip
along the St. Lawrence. The English in the Eastern Townships have a
problem with being forced to separate.
I think a full separation is more likely out west, to be honest.
Quebec wants some independence, but wants to retain their financial
ties. They know which side their bread is buttered on! Ontario,
Alberta and BC are the three provinces that pay more in taxes than
they receive. We basically subsidize the "have-not" provinces,
including (especially!) Quebec.
Jane
I have to agree with you here Jane. What about the North though? Would
they want independence? I hardly here anything from them.Would they
try and claim Manitoba, Saskatchewan, perhaps northern areas of the
rest of the western provinces? We should try and keep our country
united, if one seperates it may cause a snowball effect.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
05 Jul 2004 10:28:42 AM |
|
|
<Zak@home.com> wrote in message
news:6dhie0hhf6v8dnh5jjhmubtvhgo59kkaea@4ax.com...
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 13:09:00 -0400, Jane <pushlinque@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
I have also heard about the Cree, but I am not sure how the natives
out west feel. There is also a movement allow Quebec to have only
what they owned at the time of Confederation. I.E., a narrow strip
along the St. Lawrence. The English in the Eastern Townships have a
problem with being forced to separate.
I think a full separation is more likely out west, to be honest.
Quebec wants some independence, but wants to retain their financial
ties. They know which side their bread is buttered on! Ontario,
Alberta and BC are the three provinces that pay more in taxes than
they receive. We basically subsidize the "have-not" provinces,
including (especially!) Quebec.
Jane
I have to agree with you here Jane. What about the North though? Would
they want independence? I hardly here anything from them.Would they
try and claim Manitoba, Saskatchewan, perhaps northern areas of the
rest of the western provinces? We should try and keep our country
united, if one seperates it may cause a snowball effect.
Oh, I think it would snowball! I don't know how the north feels, either,
but they do not have much power. Many think our country is a man-made
creation and not a "real" country. As Robert Kaplan said in "The Coming
Anarchy", many Albertans have more in common with folks in Montana than they
do with other Canadians.
Jane
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
05 Jul 2004 07:23:57 AM |
|
|
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
The country seems to be run by Quebec and Ontario with a smattering of
British Columbia. I think the west could make a go of it on their own
without the US. The way French is being pushed down our throats these
days, along with the way the Liberal government runs things, I
wouldn't be suprised if the west did split, and If so, I'm on my way
to Calgary.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
05 Jul 2004 10:26:14 AM |
|
|
<Zak@home.com> wrote in message
news:d4hie0tqgq4lvlgvb2rslj5v4d2nv5080n@4ax.com...
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
The country seems to be run by Quebec and Ontario with a smattering of
British Columbia. I think the west could make a go of it on their own
without the US. The way French is being pushed down our throats these
days, along with the way the Liberal government runs things, I
wouldn't be suprised if the west did split, and If so, I'm on my way
to Calgary.
Yes. I know Jean disagrees vehemently, but the perception outside of Quebec
is that they are the favoured province. Whether strictly true or not, that
is how the rest of the country sees it. It is no secret that all federal
elections are decided in Quebec and Ontario, a fact which causes deep
resentment out west.
Jane
.
|
|
|
| User: "eric davis" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
05 Jul 2004 04:50:48 PM |
|
|
Jane, you ignorant *****!!
It figures that you wouldn't know that a single vote in Alberta actually
is worth slightly more than a single vote in Ontario. For each province,
and for each riding for that matter, not all votes are equal. You didn't
know that, and that ignorance is galling for anyone so opinionated. Ontario
actually has LESS seats than it really should because of riding boundary
manipulations and kowtowing to the smaller provinces. Dinky little
provinces like the country bumpkins in Alberta have more say than they
deserve in a truely democratic system. Ontarians have less.
Further, if Ontario, Quebec, and BC have the vast majority of the
population, then where would any thinking person expect the election to be
decided? In Alberta, PEI, and Newfoundland? Perhaps you think each
Province should have one equal vote for each election? Get real, girl! All
in all, even with the crappy system we have, the party that gets the most
votes tends to be the ruling party. You live in a Democracy. Deal with it.
eric.
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tqeGc.6069$JG5.313394@news20.bellglobal.com...
<Zak@home.com> wrote in message
news:d4hie0tqgq4lvlgvb2rslj5v4d2nv5080n@4ax.com...
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
The country seems to be run by Quebec and Ontario with a smattering of
British Columbia. I think the west could make a go of it on their own
without the US. The way French is being pushed down our throats these
days, along with the way the Liberal government runs things, I
wouldn't be suprised if the west did split, and If so, I'm on my way
to Calgary.
Yes. I know Jean disagrees vehemently, but the perception outside of
Quebec
is that they are the favoured province. Whether strictly true or not,
that
is how the rest of the country sees it. It is no secret that all federal
elections are decided in Quebec and Ontario, a fact which causes deep
resentment out west.
Jane
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
05 Jul 2004 04:03:27 PM |
|
|
"eric davis" <ericdavisj600@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2shGc.9375$WM5.543147@news20.bellglobal.com...
Jane, you ignorant *****!!
It figures that you wouldn't know that a single vote in Alberta actually
is worth slightly more than a single vote in Ontario. For each province,
and for each riding for that matter, not all votes are equal. You didn't
know that, and that ignorance is galling for anyone so opinionated.
Ontario
actually has LESS seats than it really should because of riding boundary
manipulations and kowtowing to the smaller provinces. Dinky little
provinces like the country bumpkins in Alberta have more say than they
deserve in a truely democratic system. Ontarians have less.
Further, if Ontario, Quebec, and BC have the vast majority of the
population, then where would any thinking person expect the election to be
decided? In Alberta, PEI, and Newfoundland? Perhaps you think each
Province should have one equal vote for each election? Get real, girl!
All
in all, even with the crappy system we have, the party that gets the most
votes tends to be the ruling party. You live in a Democracy. Deal with
it.
eric.
I live in Ontario, so I should be delirious, to tell the truth. I was
merely stating one of the reasons for western alienation...and why they want
an elected senate.
BTW, if you knew anything, you would know that the popular vote rarely, if
ever, correlates with the number of seats in our system. This is why the
NDP, in particular, is after proportional representation.
Our system has never been particularly democratic. The party caucus almost
always has to follow the party line (free votes are very rare) and the
leader of a majority gov't is essentially a dictator until the next election
rolls around.
Jane
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tqeGc.6069$JG5.313394@news20.bellglobal.com...
<Zak@home.com> wrote in message
news:d4hie0tqgq4lvlgvb2rslj5v4d2nv5080n@4ax.com...
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them;
every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I
have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there
would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
The country seems to be run by Quebec and Ontario with a smattering of
British Columbia. I think the west could make a go of it on their own
without the US. The way French is being pushed down our throats these
days, along with the way the Liberal government runs things, I
wouldn't be suprised if the west did split, and If so, I'm on my way
to Calgary.
Yes. I know Jean disagrees vehemently, but the perception outside of
Quebec
is that they are the favoured province. Whether strictly true or not,
that
is how the rest of the country sees it. It is no secret that all
federal
elections are decided in Quebec and Ontario, a fact which causes deep
resentment out west.
Jane
.
|
|
|
| User: "eric davis" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
06 Jul 2004 01:51:44 PM |
|
|
I live in Ontario, so I should be delirious, to tell the truth. I was
merely stating one of the reasons for western alienation...and why they
want
an elected senate.
BTW, if you knew anything, you would know that the popular vote rarely, if
ever, correlates with the number of seats in our system. This is why the
NDP, in particular, is after proportional representation.
No Kidding, Jane. Maybe you should read my email.
Our system has never been particularly democratic. The party caucus
almost
always has to follow the party line (free votes are very rare) and the
leader of a majority gov't is essentially a dictator until the next
election
rolls around.
Again, No Kidding! Our system IS Democratic, but it obviously is not as
democratic as it should be, as per was clear in my email if you comprehended
what
you were reading. Having said that, it bears repeating that the party that
wins the most
seats almost always is the governing party.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
06 Jul 2004 11:16:41 AM |
|
|
"eric davis" <ericdavisj600@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8WzGc.26034$JG5.554992@news20.bellglobal.com...
I live in Ontario, so I should be delirious, to tell the truth. I was
merely stating one of the reasons for western alienation...and why they
want
an elected senate.
BTW, if you knew anything, you would know that the popular vote rarely,
if
ever, correlates with the number of seats in our system. This is why
the
NDP, in particular, is after proportional representation.
No Kidding, Jane. Maybe you should read my email.
Our system has never been particularly democratic. The party caucus
almost
always has to follow the party line (free votes are very rare) and the
leader of a majority gov't is essentially a dictator until the next
election
rolls around.
Again, No Kidding! Our system IS Democratic, but it obviously is not as
democratic as it should be, as per was clear in my email if you
comprehended
what
you were reading. Having said that, it bears repeating that the party
that
wins the most
seats almost always is the governing party.
I understood your post just fine! I see you've been listening to
tw...pomposity suits you even less, however.
Jane
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
06 Jul 2004 07:45:42 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 11:26:14 -0400, "Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com>
wrote:
<Zak@home.com> wrote in message
news:d4hie0tqgq4lvlgvb2rslj5v4d2nv5080n@4ax.com...
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
The country seems to be run by Quebec and Ontario with a smattering of
British Columbia. I think the west could make a go of it on their own
without the US. The way French is being pushed down our throats these
days, along with the way the Liberal government runs things, I
wouldn't be suprised if the west did split, and If so, I'm on my way
to Calgary.
Yes. I know Jean disagrees vehemently, but the perception outside of Quebec
is that they are the favoured province. Whether strictly true or not, that
is how the rest of the country sees it. It is no secret that all federal
elections are decided in Quebec and Ontario, a fact which causes deep
resentment out west.
Jane
The west has had problems with the east for a long time. When I lived
in Calgary in 1980 they were complaining a lot about the east even
then. I have been across this country 4 times and still think we have
the best country in the world, but this election may have some serious
thoughts on seperation.
.
|
|
|
| User: "eric davis" |
|
| Title: Re: QQ for Jane: How do Canadian Native American groups feel about Western succession? |
06 Jul 2004 01:59:33 PM |
|
|
Despite the media hype, the division is really between urban areas, which
tend to go Liberal/NDP, and Rural areas which tend to go Conservative.
Look at the National Map. Cities like Winnipeg and Vancouver are more like
Toronto. The rural areas in the West, and even in Ontario tended to go
Conservative.
eric.
<Zak@home.com> wrote in message
news:7h7le0t47dktagsqnm4gigdkbisvng3kl8@4ax.com...
On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 11:26:14 -0400, "Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com>
wrote:
<Zak@home.com> wrote in message
news:d4hie0tqgq4lvlgvb2rslj5v4d2nv5080n@4ax.com...
On 4 Jul 2004 07:05:18 -0700, (Arnold
Holbrook) wrote:
I have seen some of the headlines from the west in the wake of the
election...they are reeeeally unhappy! You can't blame them; every
election
is decided in Ontario and Quebec.
I have heard much speculaton on how a sucessful bid for independence
could inspire a movement towards western Canadian independence. I have
also heard how many Native American communities, such as the Cree,
would not recognize a new independent Quebec government, and may
decide to delare their own independence.
What would Native American communities in Western Canada feel about
Western independence?
I have heard some speculation that there would be sentiment toward
joining the US should Western Canada declare independence, but I do
not think this is likely now as I do not think that anyone there would
want to get involved in America's imperial wars of necessity. Anyone
here wish to refute or support this conclusion?
The country seems to be run by Quebec and Ontario with a smattering of
British Columbia. I think the west could make a go of it on their own
without the US. The way French is being pushed down our throats these
days, along with the way the Liberal government runs things, I
wouldn't be suprised if the west did split, and If so, I'm on my way
to Calgary.
Yes. I know Jean disagrees vehemently, but the perception outside of
Quebec
is that they are the favoured province. Whether strictly true or not,
that
is how the rest of the country sees it. It is no secret that all federal
elections are decided in Quebec and Ontario, a fact which causes deep
resentment out west.
Jane
The west has had problems with the east for a long time. When I lived
in Calgary in 1980 they were complaining a lot about the east even
then. I have been across this country 4 times and still think we have
the best country in the world, but this election may have some serious
thoughts on seperation.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
