| Topic: |
Science > Prophecies-Of-Nostradamus |
| User: |
"Dore" |
| Date: |
27 Jun 2003 08:28:16 PM |
| Object: |
Re: "American Catholic Truth Society" Targets Buddhists for Destruction |
Catholic & truth is a contradiction of terms.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Brian Kelly" <brian_kelly_63@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:af01fac9.0306170715.6f0cd8e7@posting.google.com...
ALERT SENT TO THE AMERICAN CATHOLIC TRUTH SOCIETY
WATCHDOG LIST.
*Note: This is the eighth in a series of articles by
the watchdog group "The Call for Truth," which was
formed to expose hatred and bigotry of extremist,
fundamentalist Catholic groups, including the
dangerous organization, "The American Catholic Truth
Society," run by Scott Windsor of Prescott Arizona.
This alert is being sent to more than 200 religious
discussion groups, message boards and newsgroups
across the globe.
In this latest example of hatred and intolerance, Mr.
Windsor criticizes the recent Vatican message on the
Buddhist Feast of Vesakh, which calls on Buddhist and
Catholics to pray together for peace (the full text of
the Vatican letter and Mr. Windsor's response, posted
on one of his websites, is below).
In his response, Mr. Windsor blasts the Vatican for
asking Buddhists to join with Catholics in prayers for
peace, and charges the Vatican with "promoting prayers
to pagan gods."
The documents are below, and can be found at
http://cathapol.blogspot.com.
DO WE STAND FOR FALSE ECUMENISM?
Vatican Message to Buddhists for Feast of Vesakh 2003
"By Persevering in Prayer We Will Contribute to
Advancing Peace"
VATICAN CITY, MAY 9, 2003 (Zenit.org).- Here is the
message sent by the president of the Pontifical
Council for Interreligious Dialogue, Archbishop
Michael Fitzgerald, to Buddhists on the feast of
Vesakh.
* * *
Dear Buddhist Friends,
1. As the new President of the Pontifical Council for
Interreligious Dialogue, the office of His Holiness
the Pope for relations with people of different
religious traditions, I wish to greet you and send
this congratulatory message on the occasion of the
feast of Vesakh. This gesture of friendship, initiated
in 1995 by my predecessor Cardinal Francis Arinze, has
almost become a tradition. I wish to continue this
good tradition and express my hearty congratulations
to each and every one of you.
2. In this message, I would like to invite you, my
dear Buddhist friends, to join in prayer for the cause
of peace in the world. Observing the current
international situation, we cannot but be aware of the
acuteness of the question of peace in our world. Since
the beginning of this new Millennium, marked by the
dramatic events of 11 September 2001, we witness every
day fresh scenes of bloodshed, violence,
confrontation, and crisis in almost all parts of the
world. In the midst of this grave situation, we cannot
lead our lives without committing ourselves to
advancing the cause of peace in the world.
3. We Christians and Buddhists are convinced that the
origin of all conflict is ultimately located in human
hearts characterized by selfish desire, specifically
by desire for power, domination and wealth often at
the expense of others. It is also our common
conviction that peace must inhabit people's hearts
before it can become a social reality. For us,
therefore, the most fundamental and efficient way to
advance peace is to do our best to see that the
deep-rooted selfishness of human hearts is overcome,
so that people may be transformed into true artisans
of peace.
4. Pope John Paul II has proclaimed the year from
October 2002 to October 2003 the Year of the Rosary of
the Virgin Mary. He has earnestly encouraged the
frequent recitation of the Rosary in order to pray for
peace in the world. His wish to revive the practice of
the Rosary is closely connected with the present
historical circumstances, which need more than ever
constant supplication for the great gift of peace.
5. My Buddhists friends, is it not a wonderful
coincidence that you also have a lengthy tradition of
using the Mala for prayer? The Rosary for Catholics
and the Mala for Buddhists are simple yet profound and
meaningful prayer, despite essential differences in
their form and content, based on our distinct
doctrines and practices. For Catholics, the Rosary
represents a most effective means of fostering
contemplation of Jesus Christ. For Buddhists, the Mala
is used to overcome the 108 sinful desires in order to
reach the state of Nirvana. By virtue of their
meditative character, these two prayers have in common
a calming effect on those who pray them; they lead
them to experience and to work for peace, and they
produce fruits of love. For Catholics, the repetition
and meditation of the holy names of the Persons of the
Blessed Trinity and the Virgin Mary in the recitation
of the Rosary makes us more willing to assimilate
their love and compassion for others, especially for
the poor and afflicted. In your Buddhist tradition,
praying the Mala helps one to become a peacemaker.
6. Dear Buddhist friends, these are the thoughts I
wish to share with you this year. I am convinced that
by persevering in prayer we will contribute to
advancing peace in the world both now and in the
future. May this peace be with you and your families
on the feast of Vesakh and at all times.
Archbishop Michael L. Fitzgerald,
President
RESPONSE FROM SCOTT WINDSOR:
Should faithful Catholics be a bit concerned over this
document? What we see here is a prime case of false
ecumenism. Catholics should be all for striving for
unity, but it must be a true unity. The biggest
problem we should have with this document is that it
is promoting prayer to pagan gods. The document also
presents some Catholic truths, but then equivocates
true prayers to the One True God with the Mala. It
also equivocates the Rosary's contemplation of Jesus
Christ with the Mala's use to overcome the 108 sinful
desires to reach the state of Nirvana. There can be no
comparison to meditation on Jesus Christ to the
self-serving motives to reach a false state of
Nirvana. Strong words are used here to drive a point
home - we, as Catholics, should not be promoting pagan
prayer.
Now, what could this document have done different? Let
us not just complain without suggesting a proper
solution. Let us acknowledge the Buddhist desire for
peace. We can even acknowledge their motives behind
the Mala, but we should also include the Way, the
Truth and the Life. True Nirvana is the paradise of
heaven. The way to heaven is not merely through
self-improvement, but through Jesus Christ - our God
who became Man in order to take our place and our
deserved condemnation. Jesus Christ defeated sin and
death and became our Redemption. If we accept this and
believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior, and following
what He has commanded - then we shall be made coheirs
with Him and have our share in the true Nirvana -
heaven. Would it not be better to encourage the
Buddhist with their desires for peace and happiness
and point them to the true happiness?
What can we do? We can be aware that such documents
have been coming from the Vatican, and we can express
our concerns in whichever ways we can. We must remain
respectful of our elders, but is it respectful to go
along with whatever they say when what they say we
perceive as wrong? If we truly have respect for them,
we will stand up for what is right and hope they will
join us.
This Vesakh letter is not the first, there's quite a
history of them. Let us take note and be noticed. We
want true ecumenism that brings people to true unity
in Christ. We do not want to promote prayers to pagan
gods.
.
|
|
| User: "JCarew" |
|
| Title: Re: "American Catholic Truth Society" Targets Buddhists for Destruction |
28 Jun 2003 06:36:39 AM |
|
|
JMJ
"digimortal" wrote
Do you mean ROMAN catholic...because the term
Catholic means "universal"...
Actually the term "Roman Catholic" is a
invention of the English speaking Protestants
in order to legitmatize referring to
themselves as "Catholic" especially the
Anglicans i.e. "Anglo-Catholic" etc.,etc.
See: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13121a.htm
And yet from another source we have:
quote:
When the term 'Roman Catholic' arose
Q: When did the term "Roman Catholic Church"
come into being?
A: It is not possible to give an exact year when the Catholic
Church began to be called the "Roman Catholic Church," it is
possible to approximate it. The term originates as an insult
created by Anglicans who wished to refer to themselves as
Catholic. They thus coined the term "Roman Catholic" to
distinguish those "other" Catholics and create a sense in which
they could refer to themselves as Catholics (by attempting to
deprive actual Catholics to the right to the term).
Different variants of the "Roman" insult appeared at different
times. The earliest form of the insult was the noun "Romanist"
(one belonging to the Catholic Church), which appeared in
England about 1515-1525. The next to develop was the adjective
"Romish" (similar to something done or believed in the Catholic
Church), which appeared around 1525-1535. Next came the
noun "Roman Catholic" (one belonging to the Catholic Church),
which was coined approximately 1595-1605. Shortly thereafter
came the verb "to Romanize" (to make someone a Catholic or to
become a Catholic), which appeared around 1600-10. Then between
1665 and 1675 we got the noun "Romanism" (the system of
Catholic beliefs and practices), and finally we got a late-comer
term about 1815-1825-the noun "Roman Catholicism," which is
a synonym for the earlier "Romanism."
A similar complex of insults arose around the term "pope."
About 1515-25 the Anglicans coined the term "papist" and later
its derivative "papism." A quick follow-up, in 1520-1530, was
the adjective "popish." Next came "popery" (1525-1535), and
then "papistry"(1540-1550), with its later derivatives,
"papistical" and "papistic." (Source: Random House Webster's
College Dictionary, 1995 ed.)
This complex of insults is revealing as it shows the depths of
animosity English Protestants had toward the Church. No other
religious body (perhaps no other group at all-even national or
racial ones) has such a complex of insults woven into the English
language as does the Catholic Church. Even today many Protestants
who have no idea what the origin of the term is cannot bring
themselves to say "Catholic" without qualifying it or replacing
it with a Roman insult.
1997 by James Akin
See: http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q072.htm
unquote
Jim Carew sfo
.
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| User: "digimortal" |
|
| Title: Re: "American Catholic Truth Society" Targets Buddhists for Destruction |
28 Jun 2003 10:43:13 AM |
|
|
Then why does the RCC itself call itself the RCC? Afterall it was originally
just the Church of Rome, just a bishopric among the others in the Church.
"JCarew" <othmer@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:b5fLa.1$1F1.0@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
JMJ
"digimortal" wrote
Do you mean ROMAN catholic...because the term
Catholic means "universal"...
Actually the term "Roman Catholic" is a
invention of the English speaking Protestants
in order to legitmatize referring to
themselves as "Catholic" especially the
Anglicans i.e. "Anglo-Catholic" etc.,etc.
See: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13121a.htm
And yet from another source we have:
quote:
When the term 'Roman Catholic' arose
Q: When did the term "Roman Catholic Church"
come into being?
A: It is not possible to give an exact year when the Catholic
Church began to be called the "Roman Catholic Church," it is
possible to approximate it. The term originates as an insult
created by Anglicans who wished to refer to themselves as
Catholic. They thus coined the term "Roman Catholic" to
distinguish those "other" Catholics and create a sense in which
they could refer to themselves as Catholics (by attempting to
deprive actual Catholics to the right to the term).
Different variants of the "Roman" insult appeared at different
times. The earliest form of the insult was the noun "Romanist"
(one belonging to the Catholic Church), which appeared in
England about 1515-1525. The next to develop was the adjective
"Romish" (similar to something done or believed in the Catholic
Church), which appeared around 1525-1535. Next came the
noun "Roman Catholic" (one belonging to the Catholic Church),
which was coined approximately 1595-1605. Shortly thereafter
came the verb "to Romanize" (to make someone a Catholic or to
become a Catholic), which appeared around 1600-10. Then between
1665 and 1675 we got the noun "Romanism" (the system of
Catholic beliefs and practices), and finally we got a late-comer
term about 1815-1825-the noun "Roman Catholicism," which is
a synonym for the earlier "Romanism."
A similar complex of insults arose around the term "pope."
About 1515-25 the Anglicans coined the term "papist" and later
its derivative "papism." A quick follow-up, in 1520-1530, was
the adjective "popish." Next came "popery" (1525-1535), and
then "papistry"(1540-1550), with its later derivatives,
"papistical" and "papistic." (Source: Random House Webster's
College Dictionary, 1995 ed.)
This complex of insults is revealing as it shows the depths of
animosity English Protestants had toward the Church. No other
religious body (perhaps no other group at all-even national or
racial ones) has such a complex of insults woven into the English
language as does the Catholic Church. Even today many Protestants
who have no idea what the origin of the term is cannot bring
themselves to say "Catholic" without qualifying it or replacing
it with a Roman insult.
1997 by James Akin
See: http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q072.htm
unquote
Jim Carew sfo
.
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| User: "billu" |
|
| Title: Re: "American Catholic Truth Society" Targets Buddhists for Destruction |
28 Jun 2003 11:23:19 AM |
|
|
"digimortal" <digimortal@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:bdkckn$ksd$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
Then why does the RCC itself call itself the RCC? Afterall it was
originally
just the Church of Rome, just a bishopric among the others in the Church.
She doesn't she calls herself the Catholic Church.
.
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| User: "JCarew" |
|
| Title: Re: "American Catholic Truth Society" Targets Buddhists for Destruction |
28 Jun 2003 12:23:46 PM |
|
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JMJ
"digimortal" wrote
Then why does the RCC itself call itself the RCC?
Because its in common and legal use throughout the
English speaking countries. As I recall its simply
called the "Catholic Church" in Mexico and the Latin
countries.
Afterall it was originally just the Church of Rome,
just a bishopric among the others in the Church.
It wouldn't have made sense to call the Catholic
Church(the "Universal" Church) until she had
spread throughout the known world during the time
period your talking about.
Jim Carew sfo
.
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| User: "digimortal" |
|
| Title: Re: "American Catholic Truth Society" Targets Buddhists for Destruction |
28 Jun 2003 05:55:10 PM |
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Then why are all the churches I see called St. (name) Roman Catholic
Church??
"billu" <billu@*nospam*hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b2d511c6de11251e365e16fb18a55b4b@free.teranews.com...
"digimortal" <digimortal@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:bdkckn$ksd$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
Then why does the RCC itself call itself the RCC? Afterall it was
originally
just the Church of Rome, just a bishopric among the others in the
Church.
She doesn't she calls herself the Catholic Church.
.
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| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: "American Catholic Truth Society" Targets Buddhists for Destruction |
28 Jun 2003 07:28:10 PM |
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|
Same doctrines, same lies.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"digimortal" <digimortal@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:bdjnhf$8ta$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
Do you mean ROMAN catholic...because the term Catholic means
"universal"...
"Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:Qa6La.217$8m.32@news02.roc.ny...
Catholic & truth is a contradiction of terms.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust
in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Brian Kelly" <brian_kelly_63@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:af01fac9.0306170715.6f0cd8e7@posting.google.com...
ALERT SENT TO THE AMERICAN CATHOLIC TRUTH SOCIETY
WATCHDOG LIST.
*Note: This is the eighth in a series of articles by
the watchdog group "The Call for Truth," which was
formed to expose hatred and bigotry of extremist,
fundamentalist Catholic groups, including the
dangerous organization, "The American Catholic Truth
Society," run by Scott Windsor of Prescott Arizona.
This alert is being sent to more than 200 religious
discussion groups, message boards and newsgroups
across the globe.
In this latest example of hatred and intolerance, Mr.
Windsor criticizes the recent Vatican message on the
Buddhist Feast of Vesakh, which calls on Buddhist and
Catholics to pray together for peace (the full text of
the Vatican letter and Mr. Windsor's response, posted
on one of his websites, is below).
In his response, Mr. Windsor blasts the Vatican for
asking Buddhists to join with Catholics in prayers for
peace, and charges the Vatican with "promoting prayers
to pagan gods."
The documents are below, and can be found at
http://cathapol.blogspot.com.
DO WE STAND FOR FALSE ECUMENISM?
Vatican Message to Buddhists for Feast of Vesakh 2003
"By Persevering in Prayer We Will Contribute to
Advancing Peace"
VATICAN CITY, MAY 9, 2003 (Zenit.org).- Here is the
message sent by the president of the Pontifical
Council for Interreligious Dialogue, Archbishop
Michael Fitzgerald, to Buddhists on the feast of
Vesakh.
* * *
Dear Buddhist Friends,
1. As the new President of the Pontifical Council for
Interreligious Dialogue, the office of His Holiness
the Pope for relations with people of different
religious traditions, I wish to greet you and send
this congratulatory message on the occasion of the
feast of Vesakh. This gesture of friendship, initiated
in 1995 by my predecessor Cardinal Francis Arinze, has
almost become a tradition. I wish to continue this
good tradition and express my hearty congratulations
to each and every one of you.
2. In this message, I would like to invite you, my
dear Buddhist friends, to join in prayer for the cause
of peace in the world. Observing the current
international situation, we cannot but be aware of the
acuteness of the question of peace in our world. Since
the beginning of this new Millennium, marked by the
dramatic events of 11 September 2001, we witness every
day fresh scenes of bloodshed, violence,
confrontation, and crisis in almost all parts of the
world. In the midst of this grave situation, we cannot
lead our lives without committing ourselves to
advancing the cause of peace in the world.
3. We Christians and Buddhists are convinced that the
origin of all conflict is ultimately located in human
hearts characterized by selfish desire, specifically
by desire for power, domination and wealth often at
the expense of others. It is also our common
conviction that peace must inhabit people's hearts
before it can become a social reality. For us,
therefore, the most fundamental and efficient way to
advance peace is to do our best to see that the
deep-rooted selfishness of human hearts is overcome,
so that people may be transformed into true artisans
of peace.
4. Pope John Paul II has proclaimed the year from
October 2002 to October 2003 the Year of the Rosary of
the Virgin Mary. He has earnestly encouraged the
frequent recitation of the Rosary in order to pray for
peace in the world. His wish to revive the practice of
the Rosary is closely connected with the present
historical circumstances, which need more than ever
constant supplication for the great gift of peace.
5. My Buddhists friends, is it not a wonderful
coincidence that you also have a lengthy tradition of
using the Mala for prayer? The Rosary for Catholics
and the Mala for Buddhists are simple yet profound and
meaningful prayer, despite essential differences in
their form and content, based on our distinct
doctrines and practices. For Catholics, the Rosary
represents a most effective means of fostering
contemplation of Jesus Christ. For Buddhists, the Mala
is used to overcome the 108 sinful desires in order to
reach the state of Nirvana. By virtue of their
meditative character, these two prayers have in common
a calming effect on those who pray them; they lead
them to experience and to work for peace, and they
produce fruits of love. For Catholics, the repetition
and meditation of the holy names of the Persons of the
Blessed Trinity and the Virgin Mary in the recitation
of the Rosary makes us more willing to assimilate
their love and compassion for others, especially for
the poor and afflicted. In your Buddhist tradition,
praying the Mala helps one to become a peacemaker.
6. Dear Buddhist friends, these are the thoughts I
wish to share with you this year. I am convinced that
by persevering in prayer we will contribute to
advancing peace in the world both now and in the
future. May this peace be with you and your families
on the feast of Vesakh and at all times.
Archbishop Michael L. Fitzgerald,
President
RESPONSE FROM SCOTT WINDSOR:
Should faithful Catholics be a bit concerned over this
document? What we see here is a prime case of false
ecumenism. Catholics should be all for striving for
unity, but it must be a true unity. The biggest
problem we should have with this document is that it
is promoting prayer to pagan gods. The document also
presents some Catholic truths, but then equivocates
true prayers to the One True God with the Mala. It
also equivocates the Rosary's contemplation of Jesus
Christ with the Mala's use to overcome the 108 sinful
desires to reach the state of Nirvana. There can be no
comparison to meditation on Jesus Christ to the
self-serving motives to reach a false state of
Nirvana. Strong words are used here to drive a point
home - we, as Catholics, should not be promoting pagan
prayer.
Now, what could this document have done different? Let
us not just complain without suggesting a proper
solution. Let us acknowledge the Buddhist desire for
peace. We can even acknowledge their motives behind
the Mala, but we should also include the Way, the
Truth and the Life. True Nirvana is the paradise of
heaven. The way to heaven is not merely through
self-improvement, but through Jesus Christ - our God
who became Man in order to take our place and our
deserved condemnation. Jesus Christ defeated sin and
death and became our Redemption. If we accept this and
believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior, and following
what He has commanded - then we shall be made coheirs
with Him and have our share in the true Nirvana -
heaven. Would it not be better to encourage the
Buddhist with their desires for peace and happiness
and point them to the true happiness?
What can we do? We can be aware that such documents
have been coming from the Vatican, and we can express
our concerns in whichever ways we can. We must remain
respectful of our elders, but is it respectful to go
along with whatever they say when what they say we
perceive as wrong? If we truly have respect for them,
we will stand up for what is right and hope they will
join us.
This Vesakh letter is not the first, there's quite a
history of them. Let us take note and be noticed. We
want true ecumenism that brings people to true unity
in Christ. We do not want to promote prayers to pagan
gods.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark" |
|
| Title: Re: Are We Fighting a War Because of Bible Prophecies |
28 Jun 2003 10:01:43 PM |
|
|
"JCarew" <othmer@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:tBqLa.205$YS3.178@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
Nope.
Firstly... what war?
Secondly... the bible Prophecy has little to do with it... as I doubt that
even a thousand people have even read it, let alone studied its origin or
history.
Thirdly, the bible doesn't kill people, people kill people.
Fourthly... perhaps this question should be addressed to Bush?
.
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| User: "JCarew" |
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| Title: Re: Are We Fighting a War Because of Bible Prophecies |
28 Jun 2003 11:57:42 PM |
|
|
JMJ
"Mark" wrote:
"JCarew" wrote in message
Nope.
Firstly... what war?
This war
Two Missing U.S. Soldiers Found Dead
(washingtonpost.com)
By PAUL HAVEN
The Associated Press
Saturday, June 28, 2003; 10:31 AM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Two American soldiers missing for days from their
checkpoint post north of Baghdad have been found dead, the military said
Saturday.
News of the killings came amid a rush of guerrilla-style attacks and
sabotage that has marred U.S. efforts to re-establish order in Iraq and
increased the American death toll. Of at least 200 U.S. troops killed
since the start of war March 20, about a third died since major combat
was officially declared over May 1.
The soldiers found killed - Sgt. 1st Class Gladimir Philippe, 37, of
Linden, N.J., and Pfc. Kevin Ott, 27, of Columbus, Ohio - had been
reported missing Wednesday from the town of Balad, 25 miles north of
Baghdad.
Their bodies were found 20 miles northwest of the capital, the military
said, giving no further details. Soldiers on the ground and using Apache
attack helicopters had scoured the area, and U.S. interrogators have
been questioning at least six men arrested in the soldiers'
disappearance.
At least 61 U.S. troops have died since May 1 - at least 23 of
them in attacks.
snip<
Secondly... the bible Prophecy has little to do with it... as I doubt
that even a thousand people have even read it, let alone studied
its origin or history.
To the Protestant Evangelical Christians it does and they
make up a considerable part of Bush's voter base
See below:
Quote
American Evangelical Christians Help Israelis
Keep Grip on West Bank
By Jason Keyser Associated Press Writer
Published: Jun 28, 2003
were exiled 2,000 years ago.
snip<
Christians mainly belonging to America's evangelical Protestant
churches are among the most outspoken opponents of a new
U.S.-backed peace plan that would uproot many Jewish settlers
and establish a Palestinian state.
Church leaders such as the Rev. Jerry Falwell and the Rev. Pat
Robertson have been criticizing President Bush's vision of
Palestinian statehood.
Though not of one mind when it comes to Israel or the Middle East,
evangelicals account for about a quarter of American voters,
according to a University of Akron survey made after the 2000
election. If galvanized by a vocal leadership opposed to Bush's
Mideast policy, large blocs of voters could threaten Bush's 2004
re-election bid.
snip<
Thirdly, the bible doesn't kill people, people kill people.
Sometimes the *Bible* has been used as justification
for killing people as history has proven time after time
Fourthly... perhaps this question should be addressed to Bush?
I'm sure it has been
Jim Carew sfo
.
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| User: "Mike Craney" |
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| Title: Re: Are We Fighting a War Because of Bible Prophecies |
29 Jun 2003 06:58:45 AM |
|
|
Mark wrote:
"JCarew" <othmer@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:tBqLa.205$YS3.178@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
Nope.
Firstly... what war?
Secondly... the bible Prophecy has little to do with it... as I doubt that
even a thousand people have even read it, let alone studied its origin or
history.
I can tell you from first hand knowledge that virtually every person who
attends an evangelical church in the US knows the prophecies related to
Israel and understands the Baptist/Charismatic/etc. interpretation of them.
Mike
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Are We Fighting a War Because of Bible Prophecies |
28 Jun 2003 08:40:18 PM |
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On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 00:42:01 GMT, "JCarew" <othmer@prodigy.net> wrote:
JMJ
Are We Fighting a War in the Middle East Because of
Protestant Evangelical Bible Prophecies ?
i dont think so...and i'm an atheist.
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to see who "wf3h" is, go to "qrz.com"
and enter 'wf3h' in the field
.
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| User: "digimortal" |
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| Title: Re: "American Catholic Truth Society" Targets Buddhists for Destruction |
29 Jun 2003 05:24:05 AM |
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looks like same BS from you...
"Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:toqLa.756$sp.174@news02.roc.ny...
Same doctrines, same lies.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust
in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"digimortal" <digimortal@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:bdjnhf$8ta$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
Do you mean ROMAN catholic...because the term Catholic means
"universal"...
"Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:Qa6La.217$8m.32@news02.roc.ny...
Catholic & truth is a contradiction of terms.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when
his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their
trust
in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Brian Kelly" <brian_kelly_63@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:af01fac9.0306170715.6f0cd8e7@posting.google.com...
ALERT SENT TO THE AMERICAN CATHOLIC TRUTH SOCIETY
WATCHDOG LIST.
*Note: This is the eighth in a series of articles by
the watchdog group "The Call for Truth," which was
formed to expose hatred and bigotry of extremist,
fundamentalist Catholic groups, including the
dangerous organization, "The American Catholic Truth
Society," run by Scott Windsor of Prescott Arizona.
This alert is being sent to more than 200 religious
discussion groups, message boards and newsgroups
across the globe.
In this latest example of hatred and intolerance, Mr.
Windsor criticizes the recent Vatican message on the
Buddhist Feast of Vesakh, which calls on Buddhist and
Catholics to pray together for peace (the full text of
the Vatican letter and Mr. Windsor's response, posted
on one of his websites, is below).
In his response, Mr. Windsor blasts the Vatican for
asking Buddhists to join with Catholics in prayers for
peace, and charges the Vatican with "promoting prayers
to pagan gods."
The documents are below, and can be found at
http://cathapol.blogspot.com.
DO WE STAND FOR FALSE ECUMENISM?
Vatican Message to Buddhists for Feast of Vesakh 2003
"By Persevering in Prayer We Will Contribute to
Advancing Peace"
VATICAN CITY, MAY 9, 2003 (Zenit.org).- Here is the
message sent by the president of the Pontifical
Council for Interreligious Dialogue, Archbishop
Michael Fitzgerald, to Buddhists on the feast of
Vesakh.
* * *
Dear Buddhist Friends,
1. As the new President of the Pontifical Council for
Interreligious Dialogue, the office of His Holiness
the Pope for relations with people of different
religious traditions, I wish to greet you and send
this congratulatory message on the occasion of the
feast of Vesakh. This gesture of friendship, initiated
in 1995 by my predecessor Cardinal Francis Arinze, has
almost become a tradition. I wish to continue this
good tradition and express my hearty congratulations
to each and every one of you.
2. In this message, I would like to invite you, my
dear Buddhist friends, to join in prayer for the cause
of peace in the world. Observing the current
international situation, we cannot but be aware of the
acuteness of the question of peace in our world. Since
the beginning of this new Millennium, marked by the
dramatic events of 11 September 2001, we witness every
day fresh scenes of bloodshed, violence,
confrontation, and crisis in almost all parts of the
world. In the midst of this grave situation, we cannot
lead our lives without committing ourselves to
advancing the cause of peace in the world.
3. We Christians and Buddhists are convinced that the
origin of all conflict is ultimately located in human
hearts characterized by selfish desire, specifically
by desire for power, domination and wealth often at
the expense of others. It is also our common
conviction that peace must inhabit people's hearts
before it can become a social reality. For us,
therefore, the most fundamental and efficient way to
advance peace is to do our best to see that the
deep-rooted selfishness of human hearts is overcome,
so that people may be transformed into true artisans
of peace.
4. Pope John Paul II has proclaimed the year from
October 2002 to October 2003 the Year of the Rosary of
the Virgin Mary. He has earnestly encouraged the
frequent recitation of the Rosary in order to pray for
peace in the world. His wish to revive the practice of
the Rosary is closely connected with the present
historical circumstances, which need more than ever
constant supplication for the great gift of peace.
5. My Buddhists friends, is it not a wonderful
coincidence that you also have a lengthy tradition of
using the Mala for prayer? The Rosary for Catholics
and the Mala for Buddhists are simple yet profound and
meaningful prayer, despite essential differences in
their form and content, based on our distinct
doctrines and practices. For Catholics, the Rosary
represents a most effective means of fostering
contemplation of Jesus Christ. For Buddhists, the Mala
is used to overcome the 108 sinful desires in order to
reach the state of Nirvana. By virtue of their
meditative character, these two prayers have in common
a calming effect on those who pray them; they lead
them to experience and to work for peace, and they
produce fruits of love. For Catholics, the repetition
and meditation of the holy names of the Persons of the
Blessed Trinity and the Virgin Mary in the recitation
of the Rosary makes us more willing to assimilate
their love and compassion for others, especially for
the poor and afflicted. In your Buddhist tradition,
praying the Mala helps one to become a peacemaker.
6. Dear Buddhist friends, these are the thoughts I
wish to share with you this year. I am convinced that
by persevering in prayer we will contribute to
advancing peace in the world both now and in the
future. May this peace be with you and your families
on the feast of Vesakh and at all times.
Archbishop Michael L. Fitzgerald,
President
RESPONSE FROM SCOTT WINDSOR:
Should faithful Catholics be a bit concerned over this
document? What we see here is a prime case of false
ecumenism. Catholics should be all for striving for
unity, but it must be a true unity. The biggest
problem we should have with this document is that it
is promoting prayer to pagan gods. The document also
presents some Catholic truths, but then equivocates
true prayers to the One True God with the Mala. It
also equivocates the Rosary's contemplation of Jesus
Christ with the Mala's use to overcome the 108 sinful
desires to reach the state of Nirvana. There can be no
comparison to meditation on Jesus Christ to the
self-serving motives to reach a false state of
Nirvana. Strong words are used here to drive a point
home - we, as Catholics, should not be promoting pagan
prayer.
Now, what could this document have done different? Let
us not just complain without suggesting a proper
solution. Let us acknowledge the Buddhist desire for
peace. We can even acknowledge their motives behind
the Mala, but we should also include the Way, the
Truth and the Life. True Nirvana is the paradise of
heaven. The way to heaven is not merely through
self-improvement, but through Jesus Christ - our God
who became Man in order to take our place and our
deserved condemnation. Jesus Christ defeated sin and
death and became our Redemption. If we accept this and
believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior, and following
what He has commanded - then we shall be made coheirs
with Him and have our share in the true Nirvana -
heaven. Would it not be better to encourage the
Buddhist with their desires for peace and happiness
and point them to the true happiness?
What can we do? We can be aware that such documents
have been coming from the Vatican, and we can express
our concerns in whichever ways we can. We must remain
respectful of our elders, but is it respectful to go
along with whatever they say when what they say we
perceive as wrong? If we truly have respect for them,
we will stand up for what is right and hope they will
join us.
This Vesakh letter is not the first, there's quite a
history of them. Let us take note and be noticed. We
want true ecumenism that brings people to true unity
in Christ. We do not want to promote prayers to pagan
gods.
.
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