On May 22, 6:27 pm, Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 22 May 2007 13:02:12 -0700, Werewolfy wrote:
On May 22, 1:52?pm, "John Lemke" <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
After a month's investigation the county prosecutor, citing new self-defense legislation, refused to file charges against the homeowner.
From an English viewpoint, John, that is an incredible story/decision.
The charge in UK would be one of murder. No mitigating circumstances,
and life imprisonment.
Force may be used, but only sufficient force to prevent a personal
attack. Even if the burglar had entered the house with a baseball bat
and threatened the owner, the owner has no right to shoot him with a
gun. If he did so, then a murder charge is automatic.
Frankly, your gun laws are disgusting.
Werewolfy
Not all states allow you to assume that your life is at risk if someone
breaks into your home while you're in it (Massachusetts being one). The
rest of the states assume that the only reason someone would be breaking
into your house while you're in it is because they're after you, not your
stuff. You should understand that the culture here is still of the
mindset that you have no neighbors, or anyone else, to call for help.
That's certainly true where I am (I mean, if I started screaming for help,
nobody lives close enough to hear me).
It's illegal everywhere to set up a deadly booby trap, though.
Woods
Oddball things are happening out in usenet universe again. Posts slow
to come up. Can't respond directly to Wolfy.
Many states have recently revamped concealed carry and self defense
laws. It used to be that county gun boards MAY approve cwps. Now
they MUST approve permits once the citizen passes a training program
on their firearm and passes a background check.
New self-defense laws no longer require us to retreat or find an
alternate method to using a weapon when threatened. As long as one
has a legal right to be where they are they have a right to counter a
threat with force. Wherever, whenever.
After the pendulum swung toward more control it's swinging back in the
other direction because law abiding people mobilized for change as the
crime situation got continually worse. I'd rather my country hadn't
come to this. I'm sure things are much different, more "civilized" in
other countries.
Many people are of the mindset that by the time you call for help it's
generally too late.
One gentleman here did set a trap, trying to make it look like he was
under threat. They're in the process of frying him as we speak.
The incident above happened in one of the most poverty stricken, crime
stricken communities in the US. Riots there a few years ago made
national if not international headlines.
2 of the deceased's 3 friends in the story I recounted have been
charged with felony robbery while the shooter got off with a
misdemeanor. One of the robbers admitted on a news report they were
after weed and money. The robbery victim was a known drug dealer,
from what I understand.
It's clear that the powers that be are giving some old fashioned
American frontier justice a chance to work it's way. I generally
don't argue with the will of the people.
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
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| Title: Re: Had to post this...have a larf! |
22 May 2007 09:22:54 PM |
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On May 23, 12:12=EF=BF=BDam, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
New self-defense laws no longer require us to retreat or find an
alternate method to using a weapon when threatened. =A0As long as one has=
a legal right to be where they are they have a right to counter a
threat with force. =EF=BF=BDWherever, whenever.
Well John, all I can say is that your Country is no different to a
Third World Nation in a state of turmoil then.
All of that attempt at mitigation regarding being 'after drugs' and
previous history, does not matter one inch.
A man looks through a window. The person inside kills him.
At that moment, none of the rather weak mitigation is known. The act
is an act of brutal murder.
There is no self-defence issue against a man looking through a window.
None whatsoever. Murder seems to come easily to many Americans. As a
Nation, you are the most heavily armed in the world, prepared to
attack other Nations who don't do as you say. As a people, you are
paranoid about the motives of everyone. Shoot first, question later is
the motto.
Sorry John. America IS 'the' Third World Country.
Werewolfy
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| User: "John Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: Had to post this...have a larf! |
23 May 2007 08:36:14 PM |
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"Werewolfy" <Werewolfy1@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1179886974.793524.51920@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On May 23, 12:12?am, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
New self-defense laws no longer require us to retreat or find an
alternate method to using a weapon when threatened. As long as one has a
legal right to be where they are they have a right to counter a
threat with force. ?Wherever, whenever.
Well John, all I can say is that your Country is no different to a
Third World Nation in a state of turmoil then.
All of that attempt at mitigation regarding being 'after drugs' and
previous history, does not matter one inch.
A man looks through a window. The person inside kills him.
At that moment, none of the rather weak mitigation is known. The act
is an act of brutal murder.
<<I couldn't shoot in that situation. Someone would have to be coming thru
the window or thru the door and ignore a request to stop, if there were time
for that, before I'd pull the trigger.
<<I can't justify that shooting, even tho it was "legal", the way the county
prosecutor did. I think the whole situation is brutal. I think that was
brought home to an entire community. I think that brutal reality was
intended by the prosecutor to sink deeply into that community.
There is no self-defence issue against a man looking through a window.
None whatsoever. Murder seems to come easily to many Americans. As a
Nation, you are the most heavily armed in the world, prepared to
attack other Nations who don't do as you say. As a people, you are
paranoid about the motives of everyone. Shoot first, question later is
the motto.
I'm not trying mitigate the circumstances surrounding the shooting. Just
telling it as it was. This young man's three friends were surrounding the
house, at the door and other windows. For a number of reasons the
homeowner wasn't a shining example of fine character.
Sorry John. America IS 'the' Third World Country.
Again, in many ways it is indeed.
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| User: "Perseid" |
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| Title: Re: Had to post this...have a larf! |
22 May 2007 10:10:22 PM |
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After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, Werewolfy <Werewolfy1@yahoo.co.uk>
Spat the Words
On May 23, 12:12�am, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
New self-defense laws no longer require us to retreat or find an
alternate method to using a weapon when threatened. As long as one has
a legal right to be where they are they have a right to counter a
threat with force. �Wherever, whenever.
Well John, all I can say is that your Country is no different to a
Third World Nation in a state of turmoil then.
All of that attempt at mitigation regarding being 'after drugs' and
previous history, does not matter one inch.
A man looks through a window. The person inside kills him.
At that moment, none of the rather weak mitigation is known. The act
is an act of brutal murder.
There is no self-defence issue against a man looking through a window.
None whatsoever. Murder seems to come easily to many Americans. As a
Nation, you are the most heavily armed in the world, prepared to
attack other Nations who don't do as you say. As a people, you are
paranoid about the motives of everyone. Shoot first, question later is
the motto.
Sorry John. America IS 'the' Third World Country.
What is that old phrase ? 'Might Makes Right'...
I think it described the ancient Romans. Pax Romana.. Roman Peace.
Werewolfy
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
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| Title: Re: Had to post this...have a larf! |
23 May 2007 02:48:28 AM |
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On May 23, 4:10=EF=BF=BDam, Perseid <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
What is that old phrase ? =A0'Might Makes Right'..I think it described th=
e ancient Romans. Pax Romana.. Roman Peace.
Maybe a very true comparison. The Romans held a mighty Empire through
blood and weaponry, for a short time. Corruption of the people in
Office was a major cause of their decline and defeat.
I look at The Roman Empire...I look at America...I wonder?
Werewolfy
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| User: "Perseid" |
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| Title: Re: Had to post this...have a larf! |
23 May 2007 06:37:21 PM |
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After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, Werewolfy <Werewolfy1@yahoo.co.uk>
Spat the Words
On May 23, 4:10�am, Perseid <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
What is that old phrase ? 'Might Makes Right'..I think it described th
e ancient Romans. Pax Romana.. Roman Peace.
Maybe a very true comparison. The Romans held a mighty Empire through
blood and weaponry, for a short time. Corruption of the people in
Office was a major cause of their decline and defeat.
The huns, and conscription of non-Romans in the Roman army
both played a large part as well. Ultimately though, Rome was
held together throughout it's existence by a powerful military.
They never would have held such vast territory without such a
military. Contrast that with the USA which, until recently, has
not held or occupied other countries by force, and has achieved
greatness primarily by innovation, physical isolation from the
major wars, and a political-economic system which is extremely
flexible and resiliant.
I look at The Roman Empire...I look at America...I wonder?
Lots of people see the analogy. I read a theory once of prevailing
world control at any given moment in history cycling between
religion (intellectuals), to renaissance-enlightenment (control by
the people), to warrior-class (rule by force), with overlap between
the cycles.
Werewolfy
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