Woods wrote:
No, because (1)God wouldn't request
anyone to do something that violated
the Law, so I'd know it wasn't God and
(2)even if I thought it was God, if He
wants somebody dead, He can do His
own darned dirty work.
Of course God could!
And then why doesn't this *click* with these people?
sUSAn
Woods
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Strange happenings.... |
31 Mar 2004 08:42:40 PM |
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In article <7730-406B77D9-24@storefull-3211.bay.webtv.net>, (sUSAn B Anthony) wrote:
Woods wrote:
No, because (1)God wouldn't request
anyone to do something that violated
the Law, so I'd know it wasn't God and
(2)even if I thought it was God, if He
wants somebody dead, He can do His
own darned dirty work.
Of course God could!
And then why doesn't this *click* with these people?
My guess would be that they're either insane or lying about the God telling them
stuff.
Woods
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| User: "sUSAn B Anthony" |
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| Title: Re: Strange happenings.... |
31 Mar 2004 09:23:03 PM |
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My guess would be that they're either
insane or lying about the God telling
them stuff.
And what class would you put GWB in? Tell you the truth, I'm not sure if
he's crazy or just plain lying!
I think that a person must be somewhat disturbed to make up a lie such
as that.
sUSAn
Woods
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| User: "cesar" |
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| Title: Re: Strange happenings.... |
31 Mar 2004 10:16:55 PM |
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"sUSAn B Anthony" <tugbertswife@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:4749-406B8B17-146@storefull-3214.bay.webtv.net...
My guess would be that they're either
insane or lying about the God telling
them stuff.
And what class would you put GWB in? Tell you the truth, I'm not sure if
he's crazy or just plain lying!
I think that a person must be somewhat disturbed to make up a lie such
as that.
sUSAn
Woods
He ain't lying. His God is not the same God as your God. It is written in
Daniel. He worships a god his forefathers did not worship. He worships a
god of fortresses.
cesar
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| User: "Dani" |
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| Title: Re: Strange happenings.... |
01 Apr 2004 01:28:51 AM |
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On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:23:03 -0500 (EST),
(sUSAn B Anthony) wrote:
My guess would be that they're either
insane or lying about the God telling
them stuff.
And what class would you put GWB in? Tell you the truth, I'm not sure if
he's crazy or just plain lying!
He's lying.
I think that a person must be somewhat disturbed to make up a lie such
as that.
Power hungry - greedy. He's the dummy looking for the spot-light.
Then There's also some "pleasing daddy" in his absurd, so even
*child-like* mind. He is very child-like it seems at times.. stupid
jokes in front of important, televised, world-wide audiences.
Sometimes I wonder if people just told him to do this; just told him
to lie. And he is so dumb that he listened to them..(you see how he's
always *reading* his speeches - "um.. I ah.. ya.. so ..ah.. um.. ya
that ah.. hmm.." .. he actually could be the puppet rather than the
puppet master. Someone's corrupt in it all.
Dani
sUSAn
Woods
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| User: "Thomas" |
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| Title: Re: Strange happenings.... |
02 Apr 2004 12:21:28 AM |
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Dani <dani7200@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<flhn6055ln7hb8mvfroglm71pn8h5eeg4d@4ax.com>...
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:23:03 -0500 (EST),
(sUSAn B Anthony) wrote:
Then There's also some "pleasing daddy" in his absurd, so even
*child-like* mind. He is very child-like it seems at times.. stupid
jokes in front of important, televised, world-wide audiences.
Sometimes I wonder if people just told him to do this; just told him
to lie. And he is so dumb that he listened to them..(you see how he's
always *reading* his speeches - "um.. I ah.. ya.. so ..ah.. um.. ya
that ah.. hmm.." .. he actually could be the puppet rather than the
puppet master. Someone's corrupt in it all.
Dani
sUSAn
Woods
The one who's corrupt, as well as the puppet master, is actually a
group of people. 1) His cabinet, they are all Daddy-Bush's friends,
not the current Presidents', 2) His father is still a powerful man,
using his CIA Director background to do what he wants, when he wants,
3) Cheney is the one chosen to keep G Dubya in line as he has been
trained by Father Bush to do, and lastly 4) Donald Rumsfeld keeps
Congress in check so that the Administration can accomplish whatever
it pleases. The times of By the People, For the People, Of the People,
are over and it is now ruled by quasidictatorship or pseudodemocracy.
You only think it's a democracy, when in fact it is
Fascism/Dictatorship.
What's worse, living in a Dictatorship and knowing it (i.e. USSR) or
living in a Dictatorship and not knowing it (i.e. Democratic nations
such as U.S.)?
Bush, though, is childish. His I.Q. is not very high, in fact they've
said his is one of the lowest any President ever had. He only made it
through college because his father told them to give him a degree. His
language skills, are nearly non existent, meaning the way he speaks is
poor and his grammar is atrocious.
We need to make a stand this year and vote third party. Get rid of the
Bush/Kerry race. Neither one is capable of fixing this nation.
By the way, a question to all non-US residents. How do YOU and YOUR
country view Bush?
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| User: "Grantland" |
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| Title: Re: Strange happenings.... |
02 Apr 2004 12:44:31 AM |
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(Thomas) wrote:
Dani <dani7200@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<flhn6055ln7hb8mvfroglm71pn8h5eeg4d@4ax.com>...
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:23:03 -0500 (EST),
(sUSAn B Anthony) wrote:
Then There's also some "pleasing daddy" in his absurd, so even
*child-like* mind. He is very child-like it seems at times.. stupid
jokes in front of important, televised, world-wide audiences.
Sometimes I wonder if people just told him to do this; just told him
to lie. And he is so dumb that he listened to them..(you see how he's
always *reading* his speeches - "um.. I ah.. ya.. so ..ah.. um.. ya
that ah.. hmm.." .. he actually could be the puppet rather than the
puppet master. Someone's corrupt in it all.
Dani
sUSAn
Woods
The one who's corrupt, as well as the puppet master, is actually a
group of people. 1) His cabinet, they are all Daddy-Bush's friends,
not the current Presidents', 2) His father is still a powerful man,
using his CIA Director background to do what he wants, when he wants,
3) Cheney is the one chosen to keep G Dubya in line as he has been
trained by Father Bush to do, and lastly 4) Donald Rumsfeld keeps
Congress in check so that the Administration can accomplish whatever
it pleases. The times of By the People, For the People, Of the People,
are over and it is now ruled by quasidictatorship or pseudodemocracy.
You only think it's a democracy, when in fact it is
Fascism/Dictatorship.
What's worse, living in a Dictatorship and knowing it (i.e. USSR) or
living in a Dictatorship and not knowing it (i.e. Democratic nations
such as U.S.)?
Bush, though, is childish. His I.Q. is not very high, in fact they've
said his is one of the lowest any President ever had. He only made it
through college because his father told them to give him a degree. His
language skills, are nearly non existent, meaning the way he speaks is
poor and his grammar is atrocious.
We need to make a stand this year and vote third party. Get rid of the
Bush/Kerry race. Neither one is capable of fixing this nation.
Get real. Your vote is too important to waste. (If you do in fact
still have a vote - see attatched articles). Only Kerry can flush the
neo-cons. When the faux "Conservatives" are all in jail, only then
can the real conservatives = Libertarians take on the Socialists.
2008 earliest. Unless you have a revolution.
Grantland
Paper Backups Sought for Voting Machines - TOO LATE!
Thu Apr 1
By ROBERT TANNER, AP National Writer
An effort to erase doubts about new ATM-style voting machines by
backing up digital votes with paper records is gaining ground
nationwide, as state officials heed warnings about security and
potentially messy recounts.
Four states are demanding printers that will generate paper receipts
voters can see and verify, and more than a dozen other states are
weighing the change. But only one — Nevada — expects to have a paper
trail in place by the fall elections.
"People are just realizing exactly what we've bought into in some
states," said Maryland state Sen. Andrew Harris, a Republican. "The
stakes are so high. I don't put it above someone trying to manipulate
elections on a grand scale."
Harris wants to fix what many in the computer science world and
elsewhere see as a dangerous flaw in the touchscreen machines that
will be used in up to 34 states this November.
Their worry? That voters will make one choice, and the machine —
through a coding error or a hacker's manipulation — will record it as
another. With no one the wiser, election outcomes could be changed.
Many election administrators and voting machine industry
representatives say that such fears are misguided, and ignore the
rigorous tests and trial runs — from manufacture to Election Day —
that protect the vote.
But the doubters are winning support. Harris has proposed that the
16,000 new touchscreen machines that all Maryland voters will use this
year be outfitted with a paper ballot printed after a person makes a
choice. The voters would then get to see and verify their selection,
and the ballot would be secured in case of a recount.
The idea, known as a verified voter paper trail, has been proposed in
at least 16 other states as lawmakers have begun responding to months
of complaints, letters of protests and security studies that found
serious flaws in the ATM-style equipment.
Secretaries of state in California, Missouri and Nevada have gone
further and ordered changes. And Illinois passed a law last year
requiring a paper trail. Only Nevada, however, will be ready for the
fall elections.
"The issue is all about accountability," said Dean Heller, Nevada's
GOP secretary of state. "These votes are out there in cyberspace
somewhere, and nobody can prove that they exist. The paper trail
does."
Because of the state's size, California's change will have the biggest
impact, though Democratic Secretary of State Kevin Shelley has given
counties until 2006 to add paper ballots.
Florida election officials ruled earlier this year that new
touchscreen machines put into place after the 2000 election crisis are
exempt from a law that requires manual recounts in close elections —
because there is no way to determine voter's intentions from the
computer record.
Decisions like that scare some election advocates, sparking their push
for a paper trail. (The decision also added fuel to a Florida lawsuit
seeking a federal court to order the paper records. No decision has
yet been reached).
Stanford University computer scientist David Dill, who runs the Web
site VerifiedVoting.org, has collected endorsements from more than
7,000 people for an online petition calling for voting paper trails.
He remains hopeful that the federal government will act, though
Congress has gone nearly a year without holding a hearing on several
Democrat-authored measures to require a paper trail.
And there is widespread opposition to paper receipts, from election
administrators, some computer scientists and even the League of Women
Voters.
"It's sending the wrong message to people," said Kay Maxwell,
president of the league, a nonpartisan civic organization. "That if
you only do this, it settles all the problems. That's not being fair
to people, it's not being truthful to people."
The league's argument is that the entire voting system needs funding
and attention — voter education, poll worker training, state
registration systems. Many of those issues were targeted by the
federal Help America Vote Act that has yet to deliver more than a
fraction of the $3.9 billion promised to the states.
The group opposes the push for paper trails for electronic voting
machines because they say it will not provide the blind, disabled and
non-English speakers the same access as other voters.
And election administrators shake their heads about the additional
demands a paper trail would create: managing supplies of paper and
ink, higher costs for buying and maintaining equipment, and longer
lines on Election Day for people with questions, or who want to vote
again after seeing their choices.
In Missouri's St. Louis County, printers will add $12 million to the
$25 million bill to replace punch cards with touchscreen machines,
said Judy Taylor, elections director.
"It's making more of a problem," she said.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=548&ncid=716&e=4&u=/ap/20040401/ap_on_el_ge/voting_paper_trail
From: DaarkSyde <DaarkSyde@GrantlandSucks.com>
A Deafening Silence As
Democracy Expires
The Perfect World Of Electronic Voting
By Brian Barry
CounterPunch.org
3-5-4
"This is a brilliant strategy by Sequoia Voting Systems. All elections
are now perfect by design. If you eliminate the ability to detect or
prove fraud in an election, then you can claim that all elections are
free of fraud."
I've always wondered what sound Democracy would make if it died.
On Tuesday night, I found out in Santa Clara, California. The sound it
makes is a deafening silence, and it sent chills up and down my spine.
This sound scared me more than anything I've ever heard in my life.
That night I experienced the illusion of casting my vote on a state of
the art touch screen "DRE" (direct recording electronic) computer
voting system. The poll workers were helpful and showed me how to
vote. However, when I asked them a detailed question such as, who is
the vendor that makes these voting machines, all I got was a blank
stare. Do you have any information on these machines? No answer. I had
to examine the machines myself to find out who made them. I didn't
know that my most basic question was going to be a rhetorical one.
The particular model I went through the motions of voting on was an
"AVC Edge" with a software (firmware) version of 4.2.4 (according to
the label on the back), manufactured by Sequoia Voting Systems of
Oakland, California. However, the software version number displayed on
the touch screen was 4.2, not 4.2.4. (Should I be concerned that the
software running didn't match the label on the back?) You can even
view a demonstration of how the AVC Edge works on their company web
site.
The poll worker politely programmed a smart card for me with my
political party affiliation. I inserted the card into the voting
machine which started the voting process. The voting machine displayed
my choices to me based on my political party and I made all my choices
very easily by touching the screen.
I didn't make a single mistake.
After I completed making all my selections, the screen displayed this
message: "Touch Here To Cast Your Ballot". So I did.
Then the machine displayed this message:
"Recording Vote. Please Wait."
A couple of moments went by, then the machine displayed this final
message:
"Vote Recorded, Thank You"
I waited for the output. Nothing happened. Ok, I guess I was done
voting.
It would have been a wonderful experience except for one thing. There
was something missing. Something very important.
There was no human-readable, physical evidence that my vote had been
captured and stored the way that I had intended. Sequoia claims that
my vote was stored inside that machine, but there was no way to verify
this. Since there was no physical voting document produced, there was
also no way to recount my vote if the election was ever disputed.
Why wasn't the machine creating a punched card showing my vote
selections? Why wasn't the machine printing a sheet of paper that
could be optically scanned showing how I voted that I could read
myself to verify that it recorded my choices correctly? Where was that
physical output that would be used to actually count my vote and that
would also be used during a recount if one was necessary. Without the
physical output, how could anyone ever do an audit?
Human monitoring of the step between capturing of the votes and
counting of the votes has been eliminated and instead has been placed
under corporate control.
This is a brilliant strategy by Sequoia Voting Systems. All elections
are now perfect by design. If you eliminate the ability to detect or
prove fraud in an election, then you can claim that all elections are
free of fraud. Sequoia says on their web site that "No other company
can match Sequoia's pedigree and reputation for accurate, trouble free
elections." How could anyone ever prove them wrong?
Fraud-free elections. That's one less thing to worry about.
The last step in my voting exercise came after the polls closed. The
poll worker opened up the voting machine from the back and removed
what looked like a flash card (like what you put into your digital
camera). The flash card said "128 MB" on it, which is a large storage
capacity. This is like an electronic floppy disk and anyone in
possession of it can modify its contents. Why did they choose a medium
for storing the votes that can be modified?
When I was done voting, nothing came out of this "Direct Recording
Electronic (DRE)" voting machine. But I had completely misunderstood
the purpose of this exercise.
The purpose of this voting exercise wasn't to capture my vote.
The purpose of this voting exercise was to demonstrate to me the power
that corporations now have to control the entire voting process from
the capture of my vote, to recording it, all the way through the
counting process. If the voting machine modified or deleted my vote,
would anyone notice?
One company now can do it all. They have the Holy Grail. I was
impressed but also horrified by this display of power, because
unfortunately, that also means we no longer live in a democracy.
If the voting machine had generated a human-readable physical document
showing my vote selections that I could visually verify, then hand
carry over to the poll worker and hand to them and say, "here is my
vote", I could then watch them place this vote document into a sealed
and locked box, just like they did last fall when they were still
using punched cards.
I'm not interested in a printed receipt to take home with me showing
how I voted. This isn't a grocery store. I don't need to be convinced
that the voting machine has captured my vote. I already saw my vote
selections on screen. What I want to know is that my vote gets counted
unmodified.
If the voting machine had captured my voting selections into a
physical form that I could then verify and that I also knew, and this
is the important part, that I also knew would be used to count my vote
and would also be used in a recount if that were required. It's
important that the physical output be used in the normal process of
counting all the votes, not just used only if there's an audit. If the
voting machine had been designed to do that, well then I would say,
what a great improvement on voting this was. How much easier it is now
to vote.
But that's not what happened. Nothing came out of the machine.
The voting machine sat there silently, without even the soft hum of a
fan to remind me that it was a computer.
I was supposed to trust that this voting machine, which is a physical
expression of the intent of the Sequoia Voting Systems Corporation to
make a profit, was going to take good care of my vote.
Democracy isn't about trust. Democracy is about distrust.
It's ironic that Sequoia's web site quotes Winston Churchill's remark
he made in 1947 that "democracy is the worst form of government except
all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
Democracy didn't just die last night in Santa Clara, California. It
was silently strangled. The noise was deafening. Was I the only one
that heard it?
- Brian D. Barry is an activist and computer scientist interested in
democracy living in Silicon Valley, California. He can be reached at:
bdbarry@aol.com
http://www.counterpunch.org/barry03042004.html
By the way, a question to all non-US residents. How do YOU and YOUR
country view Bush?
^*&(*(&!!
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