Doktor DynaSoar <targeting@OMCL.mil> wrote in message news:<9aoc105kgu7eh9j98okrf0no4jg1ei3dtd@4ax.com>...
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:34:56 -0500 (EST),
(Marvin Redd) wrote:
} Great Idea! How perfect!
} THE HEAD UP THE ***** MAN!
} There may be logistical problems with this pose which luckily is made
} easier by the fact that Dean Snuherpes has no spine. Still the skull
} must be removed and the face sack shoved into the anal cavity. I am
} thinking this would look best in Black and White with wide aperture.
Know what Marvin?
If you quoted the message you're answering to, people might understand
Well..It is a waste of bandwidth. It is quite messy to scroll down
through the never ending flamewar snuh cascades to get to the newest
quip. But I shall quote you if you wish, I will try to remember. Still
the conversation I wanted to have with you until you got caught in
procedure was the Chong on the bus sentence. I want to see if you know
what I'm talking about...If I met you when I think I did.
The sentence was something like->
"I met stang and possibly Doc when we shared a Martian Chong on the
back of a schoobus filled with flamable latex."
If you were there you will know exactly what I am talking about, if
not it will just be gibberish.
I'm experimenting with google cut and paste so please forgive me if
this next sentence and response are not up to specs.
what the ***** you're ranting on about. I mean, if that matters to you.
Actually it does matters to me what I am ranting about but I have no
concern about if others can follow it or understand it. You see I
believe that usenet and even other people I meet are no more than
mirrors to reflect myself off of. There really is no communication
just everyone listening to themselves talk. It is obvious to some
degree that I exist however the rest of the world is just a phantom
made to amuse, frustrate, taunt me to give this illusionary reality a
sense of importance. If as science has proven that matter is not solid
and it is merely vibrating energy then the reason my hand can not pass
thru this table is not because bits of matter are hitting each other
but due to the repeling force of the atom. In other words its all just
empty space you're not really here at all. The cells whch started you
doc are not even any longer alive therefore your sense of
being(consciousness) transcends matter. Surely doc you would not say
that you inhabit the same body now that you had when you were nine?
Yet your sense of self remains, why is that? The human body does not
fail like an old car as parts get worn like most people believe. In
fact the human body is constantly replicating itself it is an error in
the DNA programing (possibly a blessing) Would you want to be a two
year old for ten years so that you could live to be 1000?
So my rant is for me if you follow along or get anything out of it
that is up to you. I am not quite sure that anything other than myself
exists in the universe and the rest of it could really just be a show
put on for my benefit.
Of course you will dispute this as any good illusion would, to try and
make me believe in it.
.
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| User: "Mark" |
|
| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
27 Jan 2004 10:13:46 PM |
|
|
"marsrules" <wetrover@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:a9cca4e5.0401271527.6523c98b@posting.google.com...
...If I met you when I think I did.
The sentence was something like->
"I met stang and possibly Doc when we shared a Martian Chong on the
back of a schoobus filled with flamable latex."
Ahh, so you believe you huffed paint\glue through a green bong together...?
Well, that certainly explains why you can't spell 'school bus' flammable.
If you were there you will know exactly what I am talking about, if
not it will just be gibberish.
Actually, the event you describe never happened... hallucinations are merely
a manifestation of your psychosis. Your perceived existence as 'marsrules'
is merely an out-crop of that psychosis... you are actually Douglas Quaid,
or to be more precise, that is the name that your currently running program
has been assigned within the matrix.
It is obvious to some
degree that I exist however the rest of the world is just a phantom
made to amuse, frustrate, taunt me to give this illusionary reality a
sense of importance.
Hmmm... have you heard the term "Sociopath"?
These could be dangerous thoughts for you to pursue.
If as science has proven that matter is not solid
and it is merely vibrating energy then the reason my hand can not pass
thru this table is not because bits of matter are hitting each other
but due to the repeling force of the atom.
Heh, heh... your hand doesn't pass through the table because you perceive
there IS a table, and worse, you perceive yourself as distinct from the
Universe.
The Universe is a much simpler (and more complex) place than you imagine...
It is YOUR 'distinction' that you imagine exists between yourself and the
rest of the Universe that causes the repulsion... it is your 'distinction'
that is the source of your current suffering.
In other words its all just
empty space you're not really here at all.
It is your belief, your 'distinction' that causes 'empty space' to exist.
The cells whch started you
doc are not even any longer alive therefore your sense of
being(consciousness) transcends matter. Surely doc you would not say
that you inhabit the same body now that you had when you were nine?
<sadly shaking head>
It is your belief that you had a beginning, that will cause your end.
It is your belief that Time flows in a predetermined direction... that makes
it so.
It is your belief that you have 'memories' *in the past* that prevent you
from seeing beyond the past and\or into the future.
Yet your sense of self remains, why is that?
No matter where I go, there I am?
The human body does not
fail like an old car as parts get worn like most people believe. In
fact the human body is constantly replicating itself it is an error in
the DNA programing (possibly a blessing) Would you want to be a two
year old for ten years so that you could live to be 1000?
<sadly shaking head>
Why do you think that you are ONLY you?
As Janice said so eloquently:
"It's all the same fucking day, man."
Janice was an enlightened one.. and as such, she was of course speaking
metaphorically.
You can go where ever you want, when ever you want, be what ever or who ever
you want. Why? How?
Cuz:
"It's all the same fucking day, man."
So my rant is for me if you follow along or get anything out of it
that is up to you. I am not quite sure that anything other than myself
exists in the universe and the rest of it could really just be a show
put on for my benefit.
You choose the show... each and every moment.
You are THE observer... as we all are... make it what you want.
Make it what you believe!
(Oh, wait... you already have!)
Of course you will dispute this as any good illusion would, to try and
make me believe in it.
Well, by isolating yourself from the heard, you no longer contribute to its
well being.
Re-assimilation procedures need to be initiated... but for this procedure to
occur, we need YOU to give up this ridiculous idea that you are some sort of
spy, working on behalf of some underground Martian cult! You'll need to
swallow this pill... this will be a symbolic act on your part... but to your
SUBCONSCIOUS...
.
|
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| User: "marsrules" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
28 Jan 2004 09:27:58 AM |
|
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"Mark" <mburggra1@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<_FGRb.30547$zj7.19160@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"marsrules" <wetrover@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:a9cca4e5.0401271527.6523c98b@posting.google.com...
...If I met you when I think I did.
The sentence was something like->
"I met stang and possibly Doc when we shared a Martian Chong on the
back of a schoobus filled with flamable latex."
Ahh, so you believe you huffed paint\glue through a green bong together...?
Well, that certainly explains why you can't spell 'school bus' flammable.
For a damn spelling netcop you need to learn the difference between
"heard" and "herd" as you so ineloquently confuse later in your
frothing spew reply.
You're anally retentive aren't you. Do you label each bowel moment and
store it in the freezer? You seem the type.
If you were there you will know exactly what I am talking about, if
not it will just be gibberish.
Actually, the event you describe never happened... hallucinations are merely
a manifestation of your psychosis. Your perceived existence as 'marsrules'
is merely an out-crop of that psychosis... you are actually Douglas Quaid,
or to be more precise, that is the name that your currently running program
has been assigned within the matrix.
You think you're joking but there may be more truth to this than your
midget mind can comprehend. Ever HERD of the TURING AXIUM. Since you
may not be able to understand how to do a google search, TURING says
that everything that exists can be created with a computer given
unlimited resources and time.
It is obvious to some
degree that I exist however the rest of the world is just a phantom
made to amuse, frustrate, taunt me to give this illusionary reality a
sense of importance.
Hmmm... have you heard the term "Sociopath"?
These could be dangerous thoughts for you to pursue.
Come on illusion, give your best shot at taunting me, thereby proving
my hypothesis.
If as science has proven that matter is not solid
and it is merely vibrating energy then the reason my hand can not pass
thru this table is not because bits of matter are hitting each other
but due to the repeling force of the atom.
Heh, heh... your hand doesn't pass through the table because you perceive
there IS a table, and worse, you perceive yourself as distinct from the
Universe.
"If what you say is true,
we're all humanary stew,
We all pledge allegiance to
the Black Widow"
Alice Cooper Welcome to my Nightmare "Black Widow"
Actually not a bad observation on your part.
The Universe is a much simpler (and more complex) place than you imagine...
It is YOUR 'distinction' that you imagine exists between yourself and the
rest of the Universe that causes the repulsion... it is your 'distinction'
that is the source of your current suffering.
I'm down with Buddha. I agree with what you say here.
In other words its all just
empty space you're not really here at all.
It is your belief, your 'distinction' that causes 'empty space' to exist.
could be.
The cells whch started you
doc are not even any longer alive therefore your sense of
being(consciousness) transcends matter. Surely doc you would not say
that you inhabit the same body now that you had when you were nine?
<sadly shaking head>
read it again if the thoughtstream is above your reasoning.
It is your belief that you had a beginning, that will cause your end.
It is your belief that Time flows in a predetermined direction... that makes
it so.
It is your belief that you have 'memories' *in the past* that prevent you
from seeing beyond the past and\or into the future.
Prove the past or future really exists at all. You can't. All that is
is now, maybe.
Yet your sense of self remains, why is that?
No matter where I go, there I am?
The human body does not
fail like an old car as parts get worn like most people believe. In
fact the human body is constantly replicating itself it is an error in
the DNA programing (possibly a blessing) Would you want to be a two
year old for ten years so that you could live to be 1000?
<sadly shaking head>
Read the sentence again if the thoughtstream is beyond your reasoning
capacity.
Why do you think that you are ONLY you?
As Janice said so eloquently:
"It's all the same fucking day, man."
Janice was an enlightened one.. and as such, she was of course speaking
metaphorically.
You can go where ever you want, when ever you want, be what ever or who ever
you want. Why? How?
Cuz:
"It's all the same fucking day, man."
"Day" may be an illusion as well, as is Man and FOOKING.
"ALL" can only exist if there is a not-all to compare it to. Thus the
reason for the seperation from ALL.
The "IT" you reference is the entire universe but not the multiverse.
So my rant is for me if you follow along or get anything out of it
that is up to you. I am not quite sure that anything other than myself
exists in the universe and the rest of it could really just be a show
put on for my benefit.
You choose the show... each and every moment.
You are THE observer... as we all are... make it what you want.
Make it what you believe!
(Oh, wait... you already have!)
I lov you!
We are the observer who observes himself observing.
Of course you will dispute this as any good illusion would, to try and
make me believe in it.
Well, by isolating yourself from the heard, you no longer contribute to its
well being.
"HERD"!!!!!!!!! spelling lamer!!!! HERD!!!!!
If you're gonna throw stones don't have a glass dik.
Re-assimilation procedures need to be initiated... but for this procedure to
occur, we need YOU to give up this ridiculous idea that you are some sort of
spy, working on behalf of some underground Martian cult!
All it is going to take is a clever homicidal rampage to validate my
position.
Targeting is still in progress.
You'll need to
swallow this pill... this will be a symbolic act on your part... but to your
SUBCONSCIOUS...
The Matrix touches many themes of interest for me. The follow up
sequels were quite the let down. I wanted to hear more about how the
AI turned humans into batteries which is one of the most novel sci-fi
thoughts in decades..
.
|
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| User: "Mark" |
|
| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
28 Jan 2004 10:34:43 PM |
|
|
"marsrules" <wetrover@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:a9cca4e5.0401280727.6b1b4475@posting.google.com...
Ahh, so you believe you huffed paint\glue through a green bong
together...?
Well, that certainly explains why you can't spell 'school bus'
flammable.
For a damn spelling netcop you need to learn the difference between
"heard" and "herd"
LOL!
Perhaps... or perhaps you mis-understood the message, oh not so shallow one?
as you so ineloquently confuse later in your
frothing spew reply.
Frothing? Spewing?
Heh, heh... your buttons are EASY to push!!!
You're anally retentive aren't you. Do you label each bowel moment and
store it in the freezer? You seem the type.
I assume you mean 'bowel movement'?
Heh, heh...
:) <--- ***** eating grin
Actually, the event you describe never happened... hallucinations are
merely
a manifestation of your psychosis. Your perceived existence as
'marsrules'
is merely an out-crop of that psychosis... you are actually Douglas
Quaid,
or to be more precise, that is the name that your currently running
program
has been assigned within the matrix.
You think you're joking but there may be more truth to this than your
midget mind can comprehend.
Why would you think I'm joking?
Ever HERD of the TURING AXIUM.
Since you
may not be able to understand how to do a google search, TURING says
that everything that exists can be created with a computer given
unlimited resources and time.
Heh, heh... 'Exists'... you crack me up. So close...
And what, pray tell, 'Exists' and what does not?
Do not non-existance things exist as, well, non-existant things?
As a lad, and in my minds-eye, I invisioned and gave form, function, and
even 'Life' to the characters in the Trilogy by Tolkien.
Would a computer create these 'ideas' and 'thoughts' as well?
Could a computer re-create my dreams, your dreams?
What about angst, could it 'feel', could it 'invision' possibilities without
invoking them?
It would seem that a pre-defined 'exist' vs. 'not exist' must be programmed.
In other words, someone must DECIDE that limits must be set... a definition
must be made... the variables must be defined.
Godel, Turing, and Chaitin stresses that there are set fundamental limits on
mathematics and therefore algorithms.
In Mathematics (Algorithms) all Truths are strictly local... they are self
referential, and therefore can never be used as 'proof' of anything outside
themselves. At best, they can only be considered "stable self-contained,
self-defined (and self-referential) systems".
(BTW, Turings hypothetical machine makes a poor assumption about 'Time').
You're still thinking inside the box.. ok, perhaps your thinking within a
cylinder instead... there are two ways out...
Will it be the Red pill or Blue?
The cells whch started you
doc are not even any longer alive therefore your sense of
being(consciousness) transcends matter. Surely doc you would not say
that you inhabit the same body now that you had when you were nine?
<sadly shaking head>
read it again if the thoughtstream is above your reasoning.
You're focusing on the small (and yes, interesting) little bits... you're
thinking of 'cells' and 'your' beginning...
.... continue this path, and you perish... adding only 'Experience' to the
heard, but (alas) no Awareness.
.... and that's ok, I guess... I mean, it's better than just taking up space
and contributing nothing I suppose.
;)
It is your belief that you had a beginning, that will cause your end.
It is your belief that Time flows in a predetermined direction... that
makes
it so.
It is your belief that you have 'memories' *in the past* that prevent
you
from seeing beyond the past and\or into the future.
Prove the past or future really exists at all.
Can't.
Won't.
It is *your* obligation to define what you believe...
This is your task, this is what *you* have chosen.
You can't. All that is
is now, maybe.
"Maybe"?!?
Ahhh... did I just see a flicker of light eminating from your overworked
brow?
The human body does not
fail like an old car as parts get worn like most people believe. In
fact the human body is constantly replicating itself it is an error in
the DNA programing (possibly a blessing) Would you want to be a two
year old for ten years so that you could live to be 1000?
<sadly shaking head>
Read the sentence again if the thoughtstream is beyond your reasoning
capacity.
Since you have chosen (yes, chosen) to believe in the physical world, this
world has imposed certain rules upon you.
(You're aware of ALL of the rules, whether you choose to consciously accept
their validity or not).
One of the Rules concerning LIFE is the FOR-NEXT loop encoded into each life
form. It's a simple programming loop based on the value of a variable...
when the NEXT statement is reached, the program loops back to the FOR
statement and repeats the process.
For example;
' Program Name: MarsRules Life span
BEGIN
FOR MarsrulesAge = 1 to 120
MarsrulesAge = MarsrulesAge + 1
NEXT MarsrulesAge
END program
What happens when MarsrlesAge = 120?
Then the line of code is read after the NEXT line, and EXECUTED!
END program.
Since you mention cells, we'll touch briefly on that... I won't be divulging
any classified info since Science has already discovered the FOR-NEXT LOOP
for cell division. It's called Telemerease:
"Telomeres are DNA sequences found at the ends of eukaryotic chromosomes
which maintain the fidelity of genetic information during replication. Under
normal circumstances the telomeres become shorter and shorter with each
cycle of cell division. A sufficiently short telomere is believed to signal
the cells to stop dividing. The telomerase enzyme is a ribonucleic protein
that synthesizes telomeric DNA on chromosome ends."
Picture, if you will... a strand of pearls within each cell... each time the
cell divides, one pearl is taken from the strand... when the strand is gone,
the cell must die.
Now, about the variable "MarsrulesLifeTimes"...
;)
Of course you will dispute this as any good illusion would, to try and
make me believe in it.
Well, by isolating yourself from the heard, you no longer contribute to
its
well being.
"HERD"!!!!!!!!! spelling lamer!!!! HERD!!!!!
I stand by my statement... the spelling I chose is correct for the message I
was trying to convey.
Think about it...
Hey look, YOU put a little check mark in the box that said "Figure things
out for YOURSELF"... so my hands are tied!
The Matrix touches many themes of interest for me.
It should... it contains echoes of your programming... a judeo-christian
theme... it's how you were raised... and the belief systems that were
instilled within you. Not to worry... at that age, it's not like you had a
choice or anything.
;)
sequels were quite the let down. I wanted to hear more about how the
AI turned humans into batteries which is one of the most novel sci-fi
thoughts in decades..
I only saw the first movie... a bit long winded and a distinct lack of Cindy
Crawford for my tastes.
;)
;)
.
|
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| User: "marsrules" |
|
| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
29 Jan 2004 11:17:14 AM |
|
|
"Mark" <mburggra1@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<D30Sb.1479$F23.846@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"marsrules" <wetrover@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:a9cca4e5.0401280727.6b1b4475@posting.google.com...
Ahh, so you believe you huffed paint\glue through a green bong
together...?
I wouldn't touch that green viral infector. I brought a self contained
delivery system made of rice paper.
Well, that certainly explains why you can't spell 'school bus'
flammable.
Once again I was saving bandwidth. Is the space between school bus
important to comprehension-NO!
Flammable suffers from "m" redundancy. In future generations the extra
"M" is discarded.
For a damn spelling netcop you need to learn the difference between
"heard" and "herd"
LOL!
Perhaps... or perhaps you mis-understood the message, oh not so shallow one?
Maybe you had a lucky back pedal and chance gave you a plate to spin
on a broom?
as you so ineloquently confuse later in your
frothing spew reply.
Frothing? Spewing?
Heh, heh... your buttons are EASY to push!!!
Its all about the action verbs.
You're anally retentive aren't you. Do you label each bowel moment and
store it in the freezer? You seem the type.
I assume you mean 'bowel movement'?
Heh, heh...
I meant moment oh not so shallow one.
:) <--- ***** eating grin
Actually, the event you describe never happened... hallucinations are
merely
a manifestation of your psychosis. Your perceived existence as
'marsrules'
is merely an out-crop of that psychosis... you are actually Douglas
Quaid,
or to be more precise, that is the name that your currently running
program
has been assigned within the matrix.
Quaid was assimulated into the Martian collective
You think you're joking but there may be more truth to this than your
midget mind can comprehend.
Why would you think I'm joking?
Ever HERD of the TURING AXIUM.
Since you
may not be able to understand how to do a google search, TURING says
that everything that exists can be created with a computer given
unlimited resources and time.
Heh, heh... 'Exists'... you crack me up. So close...
And what, pray tell, 'Exists' and what does not?
Do not non-existance things exist as, well, non-existant things?
Nothing exists but there is the illusion of existence.
As a lad, and in my minds-eye, I invisioned and gave form, function, and
even 'Life' to the characters in the Trilogy by Tolkien.
Would a computer create these 'ideas' and 'thoughts' as well?
Could a computer re-create my dreams, your dreams?
What about angst, could it 'feel', could it 'invision' possibilities without
invoking them?
It would seem that a pre-defined 'exist' vs. 'not exist' must be programmed.
In other words, someone must DECIDE that limits must be set... a definition
must be made... the variables must be defined.
What happened is that our future ancestors exist as much as existence
is possible. These future ancestors created a Turing machine to
validate their existence by creating a past. We are part of that
program.
Godel, Turing, and Chaitin stresses that there are set fundamental limits on
mathematics and therefore algorithms.
In Mathematics (Algorithms) all Truths are strictly local... they are self
referential, and therefore can never be used as 'proof' of anything outside
themselves. At best, they can only be considered "stable self-contained,
self-defined (and self-referential) systems".
(BTW, Turings hypothetical machine makes a poor assumption about 'Time').
Turing understood that time is relative, unimportant and flexable.
Time is not needed in mathmatical equations.
You're still thinking inside the box.. ok, perhaps your thinking within a
cylinder instead... there are two ways out...
Will it be the Red pill or Blue?
I confounded everyone including myself by taking both pills at once.
The cells whch started you
doc are not even any longer alive therefore your sense of
being(consciousness) transcends matter. Surely doc you would not say
that you inhabit the same body now that you had when you were nine?
<sadly shaking head>
read it again if the thoughtstream is above your reasoning.
You're focusing on the small (and yes, interesting) little bits... you're
thinking of 'cells' and 'your' beginning...
... continue this path, and you perish... adding only 'Experience' to the
heard, but (alas) no Awareness.
... and that's ok, I guess... I mean, it's better than just taking up space
and contributing nothing I suppose.
;)
Be careful or I will stick two probes in you and turn you into a
potato battery.
It is your belief that you had a beginning, that will cause your end.
It is your belief that Time flows in a predetermined direction... that
makes
it so.
It is your belief that you have 'memories' *in the past* that prevent
you
from seeing beyond the past and\or into the future.
Prove the past or future really exists at all.
Can't.
Won't.
It is *your* obligation to define what you believe...
This is your task, this is what *you* have chosen.
What can I say but good post. Give yourself a cyber medal.
You can't. All that is
is now, maybe.
"Maybe"?!?
Ahhh... did I just see a flicker of light eminating from your overworked
brow?
Avoid absolutes. That is all I am doing with the "maybe" insertion.
The human body does not
fail like an old car as parts get worn like most people believe. In
fact the human body is constantly replicating itself it is an error in
the DNA programing (possibly a blessing) Would you want to be a two
year old for ten years so that you could live to be 1000?
<sadly shaking head>
Read the sentence again if the thoughtstream is beyond your reasoning
capacity.
Since you have chosen (yes, chosen) to believe in the physical world, this
world has imposed certain rules upon you.
(You're aware of ALL of the rules, whether you choose to consciously accept
their validity or not).
One of the Rules concerning LIFE is the FOR-NEXT loop encoded into each life
form. It's a simple programming loop based on the value of a variable...
when the NEXT statement is reached, the program loops back to the FOR
statement and repeats the process.
For example;
' Program Name: MarsRules Life span
BEGIN
FOR MarsrulesAge = 1 to 120
MarsrulesAge = MarsrulesAge + 1
NEXT MarsrulesAge
END program
What happens when MarsrlesAge = 120?
Then the line of code is read after the NEXT line, and EXECUTED!
END program.
Since you mention cells, we'll touch briefly on that... I won't be divulging
any classified info since Science has already discovered the FOR-NEXT LOOP
for cell division. It's called Telemerease:
"Telomeres are DNA sequences found at the ends of eukaryotic chromosomes
which maintain the fidelity of genetic information during replication. Under
normal circumstances the telomeres become shorter and shorter with each
cycle of cell division. A sufficiently short telomere is believed to signal
the cells to stop dividing. The telomerase enzyme is a ribonucleic protein
that synthesizes telomeric DNA on chromosome ends."
Picture, if you will... a strand of pearls within each cell... each time the
cell divides, one pearl is taken from the strand... when the strand is gone,
the cell must die.
Now, about the variable "MarsrulesLifeTimes"...
;)
Of course you will dispute this as any good illusion would, to try and
make me believe in it.
Well, by isolating yourself from the heard, you no longer contribute to
its
well being.
"HERD"!!!!!!!!! spelling lamer!!!! HERD!!!!!
I stand by my statement... the spelling I chose is correct for the message I
was trying to convey.
lucky plate spinner! ha ha
Think about it...
Hey look, YOU put a little check mark in the box that said "Figure things
out for YOURSELF"... so my hands are tied!
The Matrix touches many themes of interest for me.
It should... it contains echoes of your programming... a judeo-christian
theme... it's how you were raised... and the belief systems that were
instilled within you. Not to worry... at that age, it's not like you had a
choice or anything.
;)
sequels were quite the let down. I wanted to hear more about how the
AI turned humans into batteries which is one of the most novel sci-fi
thoughts in decades..
I only saw the first movie... a bit long winded and a distinct lack of Cindy
Crawford for my tastes.
;)
I dated Crawford's mole once. The mole told me that Cindy is just it's
transport system.
;)
;9
.
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| User: "Mark" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
29 Jan 2004 09:20:36 PM |
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"marsrules" <wetrover@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:a9cca4e5.0401290917.e483366@posting.google.com...
Flammable suffers from "m" redundancy. In future generations the extra
"M" is discarded.
Understood, and thank the gods that 'Q' was removed from our lexicon at the
same time... I mean, what were our predecessors thinking? That symbol only
mated itself with U anyway.
.... a shame they missed the chance to eliminate that danged "ough"
combination, but still;
viva la "Krande Reformation of the English Language ", and the new
designation of it's speakers who will one day go to (and inhabit) the Stars,
the Krell!
;)
Heh, heh... 'Exists'... you crack me up. So close...
And what, pray tell, 'Exists' and what does not?
Do not non-existence things exist as, well, non-existent things?
Nothing exists but there is the illusion of existence.
So 'illusion' exists?
Ain't it enough that you created 'time'?
Turing understood that time is relative, unimportant and flexible.
Time is not needed in mathematical equations.
Ahhh... but "Time" is the *one* element that you have created for your (and
our) existence!
How can you say it's unimportant?
BTW, the rest of us are a bit bemused by the properties that you have given
it!
We're still trying to figure it out!
;)
Will it be the Red pill or Blue?
I confounded everyone including myself by taking both pills at once.
Alas, if you had only declined both...
.... still, we have much for which to thank you!
Your experience and awareness will be added to the collective...
Be careful or I will stick two probes in you and turn you into a
potato battery.
Three probes... there's that 'extra dimension' thingy we need to get around
if you want current flow.
(And *Please* avoid poking me in an Eye).
What can I say but good post. Give yourself a cyber medal.
The post wouldn't\couldn't have been done without you...
It was an exchange of ideas... an exchange between you, and that which you
have created.
;)
.... and it was my pleasure.
Avoid absolutes. That is all I am doing with the "maybe" insertion.
Oh, don't be so modest... you understand a lot more than you let on...
"HERD"!!!!!!!!! spelling lamer!!!! HERD!!!!!
I stand by my statement... the spelling I chose is correct for the
message I
was trying to convey.
lucky plate spinner! ha ha
Heh, heh... fortuitous perhaps.
.... if that's what you choose to believe.
;)
I dated Crawford's mole once. The mole told me that Cindy is just it's
transport system.
Well of course!
But that mole contains one particular cell I find attractive...
A cell that contains one particular mitochondria...
A mitochondria that contains a special DNA sequence...
A forbidden alignment of molecules...
An alignment that will decipher not only the Secret of Life,
.... but the prophecies of Nostradamus as well!
.
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| User: "Saint Isidore of Laytonville" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
30 Jan 2004 01:44:35 AM |
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Cell mitochondria will be the salvation and cure all
when made to vibrate in sympathetic bioresonance
until the multiple wave oscilator harmonizes the
entire body with an electromagnet binding square wave form
that's pulsed 99 times per minute to the quest
of all systems for harmonic biomagnetic balancing
of ever living cell in human beings.
The Psychedelick Pope
Saint Isidore of Laytonville
^Ö^ Patron Saint of the Internet ^Ö^
°°^Ö^ °°
http://apple2.org.za/gswv/me
AOXOMOXOA and ENESSA QUA ONNICA
.
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| User: "Mark" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
30 Jan 2004 08:56:58 PM |
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"Saint Isidore of Laytonville" <cturley2@aol.comWOMPWOMP> wrote in message
news:20040130024435.12748.00001229@mb-m29.aol.com...
Cell mitochondria will be the salvation and cure all
when made to vibrate in sympathetic bioresonance
until the multiple wave oscilator harmonizes the
entire body with an electromagnet binding square wave form
that's pulsed 99 times per minute to the quest
of all systems for harmonic biomagnetic balancing
of ever living cell in human beings.
Well... it sure is an interesting bit of bio-technology.
A remarkable symbiotic relationship.
Every animal cell has them.
They create 'energy' from matter...
The cell provides the matter in a form it can 'digest'.
Their DNA is seperate from that of the host cell.
They are contributed by the female...
Trillions and trillions of these foreign critters, each having a DNA that is
unique and isolated from 'Human' DNA... each directing the human cells to
gather material that it can convert... life (as we know it) would be
impossible without them.
Hmmm... who is the Master and who is the Slave?
.
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| User: "Saint Isidore of Laytonville" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
31 Jan 2004 11:40:45 AM |
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wrote in a reply -- asking:
<<
"Saint Isidore of Laytonville" <cturley2@aol.comWOMPWOMP> wrote in message
news:20040130024435.12748.00001229@mb-m29.aol.com...
Cell mitochondria will be the salvation and cure all
when made to vibrate in sympathetic bioresonance
until the multiple wave oscilator harmonizes the
entire body with an electromagnet binding square wave form
that's pulsed 99 times per minute to the quest
of all systems for harmonic biomagnetic balancing
of ever living cell in human beings.
Well... it sure is an interesting bit of bio-technology.
A remarkable symbiotic relationship.
Every animal cell has them.
They create 'energy' from matter...
The cell provides the matter in a form it can 'digest'.
Their DNA is seperate from that of the host cell.
They are contributed by the female...
Trillions and trillions of these foreign critters, each having a DNA that is
unique and isolated from 'Human' DNA... each directing the human cells to
gather material that it can convert... life (as we know it) would be
impossible without them.
Hmmm... who is the Master and who is the Slave? >>
Like all things that live -- they are all partners.
Some may abuse the other but, there are no slave master
persona -- just an effort to remain partners.
The Psychedelick Pope
Saint Isidore of Laytonville
^Ö^ Patron Saint of the Internet ^Ö^
°°^Ö^ °°
http://apple2.org.za/gswv/me
AOXOMOXOA and ENESSA QUA ONNICA
.
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| User: "Mark" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
01 Feb 2004 04:19:15 AM |
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"Saint Isidore of Laytonville" <cturley2@aol.comWOMPWOMP> wrote in message
news:20040131124045.13174.00000713@mb-m20.aol.com...
"Saint Isidore of Laytonville" <cturley2@aol.comWOMPWOMP> wrote in message
news:20040130024435.12748.00001229@mb-m29.aol.com...
Cell mitochondria will be the salvation and cure all
when made to vibrate in sympathetic bioresonance
until the multiple wave oscilator harmonizes the
entire body with an electromagnet binding square wave form
that's pulsed 99 times per minute to the quest
of all systems for harmonic biomagnetic balancing
of ever living cell in human beings.
Well... it sure is an interesting bit of bio-technology.
A remarkable symbiotic relationship.
Every animal cell has them.
They create 'energy' from matter...
The cell provides the matter in a form it can 'digest'.
Their DNA is seperate from that of the host cell.
They are contributed by the female...
Trillions and trillions of these foreign critters, each having a DNA that
is
unique and isolated from 'Human' DNA... each directing the human cells to
gather material that it can convert... life (as we know it) would be
impossible without them.
Hmmm... who is the Master and who is the Slave? >>
Like all things that live -- they are all partners.
Some may abuse the other but, there are no slave master
persona -- just an effort to remain partners.
I suppose they could be considered partners!
But 'life' seems more of an opportunistic struggle for resources... the
resources used to replicate (or reproduce, as the case may be).
The mitochondria-cell pairing is rather striking, in that mitochondria look
more like a bacteria than anything else! This would imply that a very long
time ago that either;
mitochondria infected a cell, or
a cell swallowed whole a mitochondria.
http://cellbio.utmb.edu/cellbio/mitoch2.htm
.
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| User: "Saint Isidore of Laytonville" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
30 Jan 2004 12:07:54 PM |
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If that fails -- then somebody should make a web site for it.
The Psychedelick Pope
Saint Isidore of Laytonville
^Ö^ Patron Saint of the Internet ^Ö^
°°^Ö^ °°
http://apple2.org.za/gswv/me
AOXOMOXOA and ENESSA QUA ONNICA
.
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| User: "Jeff Relf" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
30 Jan 2004 09:50:27 PM |
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Hi Mark , You mention ,
" Godel , Turing , and Chaitin stresses that
there are set fundamental limits on mathematics and
therefore algorithms .
In Mathematics ( Algorithms ) all Truths are
strictly local ... they are self referential ,
and therefore can never be used as
' proof ' of anything outside themselves .
At best , they can only be considered
' stable self-contained , self-defined
( and self-referential ) systems ' .
( BTW , Turing's hypothetical machine makes
a poor assumption about ' Time ' ) . "
Godel's incompleteness theorem is like this :
' Information must always be incomplete ,
so it's impossible to avoid assumptions ' .
To that , I add :
A ' Faith ' is merely an assumption that has been
well tested and found to have some utility .
Stephen Hawking uses Godel's incompleteness theorem
to explain why a purely scientific theory of everything ,
e.g. string theory , is worse than futile ...
it's just plain ugly .
As for time . . .
The topmost axiom of physics-metaphysics is :
_ The future is fixed _
( And it's only our incomplete information that
makes it seem otherwise )
So outside of the notional events that exist in our minds ,
natural time is assumed to be spatial ,
i.e. a timescape , e.g. Einsteinian space-time .
As ancient as this assumption is ,
that is still the only theory of everything .
This means that there is no god ...
Yet , at the same time , there is a god ,
he is anything with the title ' Lord ' or ' Master ' .
( i.e. God is a notion , a title )
Speaking of the fourth spatial dimension ,
despite our incomplete information , mass-energy ,
which is notionally both mass-like and energy-like ,
can be assumed to be yet a fifth spatial dimension ,
i.e. the mass-energy-scape .
( It can be visualized as a space-timescape membrane
that is warped by the mass-energy-scape )
Also ...
The singularity of the big bang is merely notional .
Instead of assuming , as a human would , that :
There must be something before the big bang ...
Assume , as some super-human might , that :
Your scale of the space-timescape
plus the mass-energy-scape ( which includes heat )
could simply change as you approach ( but never reach )
the notional singularity of the big bang .
The ' Age ' of our universe is best measured by
the temperature of the CMBR , which ranges
from 2.749 to 2.751 degrees Kelvin ,
rather than by time , 13.7 billion years .
( CMBR is the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation )
( At it's core , Temperature is
notionally random mass-energy in space-time )
Also ...
Notional entropy ,
( i.e. Notionally ' Unavailable ' heat ) ,
is ever stretching out the fabric of space-time ,
like a tiny hitch in the ' Normal ' order of things .
So at 10 ^ -X seconds after the big bang ,
as X approaches infinity ,
the degrees Kelvin probably approaches infinity .
And at 10 ^ X years after the big bang ,
as X approaches infinity ,
the degrees Kelvin probably approaches zero .
And at scales larger than 10 ^ 10 cm ,
our entire universe is uniform and isotropic .
So gravity is negative mass-energy .
and it's exactly equal to
all other ( positive ) mass-energy .
So the total energy of the universe nets to zero .
Perhaps both ' sides ' of this dimension ,
( i.e. mass-energy and it's flip-side , gravity )
are just part of one cycle of inertia ,
oriented towards the notional singularity
of the big bang .
.
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| User: "Mark" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
01 Feb 2004 04:26:11 AM |
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"Jeff Relf" <Me@Privacy.NET> wrote in message
news:a08soxc559mi.dlg@x.Jeff.Relf...
Hi Mark ,
Hello Jeff.
Godel's incompleteness theorem is like this :
' Information must always be incomplete ,
so it's impossible to avoid assumptions ' .
To that , I add :
A ' Faith ' is merely an assumption that has been
well tested and found to have some utility .
Yes, I understand...
Stephen Hawking uses Godel's incompleteness theorem
to explain why a purely scientific theory of everything ,
e.g. string theory , is worse than futile ...
it's just plain ugly .
Well, it would seem that one must (at some point) differentiate between
Science and Philosophy.
Science has served us fairly well because it allows us to create theory's
which are 'testable' and the results 'repeatable'. Philosophy has also done
us some service...
I think what Hawking dislikes about string theory is that it is purely
philosophical in nature. The strings (if they exist) are, and will forever
be, out of our reach to 'observe' them.
Unless a theory allows us to encompass all previously known observations,
and allows us to 'predict' new observations, then one would have to agree
with Hawking...
Personally, I have moved 'String Theory' from the catagory of Science and
relagated it to the bin of 'Philosophy'. That may change one day, but for
now I hold hope for a quantum theory of gravity.
As for time . . .
The topmost axiom of physics-metaphysics is :
_ The future is fixed _
( And it's only our incomplete information that
makes it seem otherwise )
So outside of the notional events that exist in our minds ,
natural time is assumed to be spatial ,
i.e. a timescape , e.g. Einsteinian space-time .
As ancient as this assumption is ,
that is still the only theory of everything .
This means that there is no god ...
Yet , at the same time , there is a god ,
he is anything with the title ' Lord ' or ' Master ' .
( i.e. God is a notion , a title )
Regarding Time and The Future is Fixed: there are (at least) three
levels... we occupy the middle level, this is the laws of physics on earth,
since that's where our theory's originate. Our knowledge works well for
us... and allows us to launch probes to Mars.
But we are at the hinterland between the Very Large and the Very Small.
At the Very Large level, galagies and super galaxies, the beginning of the
Universe and the End of the Universe, predicatable mathematical laws...
don't seem to apply.
At the Very Small level, electrons and photons, anything shorter than the
Planck length, nothing is certain. We only have 'probablility' to work
with... here, as odd as it sounds... the Observer seems to help determine
the outcome of an observation.
Speaking of the fourth spatial dimension ,
despite our incomplete information , mass-energy ,
which is notionally both mass-like and energy-like ,
can be assumed to be yet a fifth spatial dimension ,
i.e. the mass-energy-scape .
( It can be visualized as a space-timescape membrane
that is warped by the mass-energy-scape )
Not sure I understand...
Also ...
The singularity of the big bang is merely notional .
Instead of assuming , as a human would , that :
There must be something before the big bang ...
Assume , as some super-human might , that :
Your scale of the space-timescape
plus the mass-energy-scape ( which includes heat )
could simply change as you approach ( but never reach )
the notional singularity of the big bang .
Very possible. The beginning singularity is based upon mathematical
extrapolation. Our current understanding of physics breaks down a few
thousands of a second after the big bang.
The ' Age ' of our universe is best measured by
the temperature of the CMBR , which ranges
from 2.749 to 2.751 degrees Kelvin ,
rather than by time , 13.7 billion years .
( CMBR is the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation )
( At it's core , Temperature is
notionally random mass-energy in space-time )
The vacuum also contains an unaccouted for electric charge...
Also ...
Notional entropy ,
( i.e. Notionally ' Unavailable ' heat ) ,
is ever stretching out the fabric of space-time ,
like a tiny hitch in the ' Normal ' order of things .
So at 10 ^ -X seconds after the big bang ,
as X approaches infinity ,
the degrees Kelvin probably approaches infinity .
And at 10 ^ X years after the big bang ,
as X approaches infinity ,
the degrees Kelvin probably approaches zero .
And at scales larger than 10 ^ 10 cm ,
our entire universe is uniform and isotropic .
So gravity is negative mass-energy .
and it's exactly equal to
all other ( positive ) mass-energy .
So the total energy of the universe nets to zero .
Perhaps both ' sides ' of this dimension ,
( i.e. mass-energy and it's flip-side , gravity )
are just part of one cycle of inertia ,
oriented towards the notional singularity
of the big bang .
Not sure I understand...
.
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| User: "Jeff Relf" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
01 Feb 2004 07:00:55 AM |
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Hi Mark ,
Re: My idea that there's a fifth spatial dimension ,
which I'm calling the " mass-energy-scape " ,
You replied , " Not sure I understand . "
Neither do I , it's just something I've been toying with .
It's kind of like a metaphysical version of string theory ,
Only where all randomness is merely notional .
.
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| User: "Jeff Relf" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
01 Feb 2004 07:14:42 AM |
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Hi Mark ,
Re: Gravity as negative mass-energy ,
equal and opposite to all positive mass-energy ,
You comment , " Not sure I understand . "
Here's how Hawking explains it ,
From " Generation Terrorists. COM "
http://www.GenerationTerrorists.COM/quotes/abhotswh.html
" There are something like ten million million
million million million million million million
million million million million million million
( 1 with eighty zeroes after it ) particles
in the region of the universe that we can observe .
Where did they all come from ?
The answer is that , in quantum theory ,
particles can be created out of energy
in the form of particle / antiparticle parts .
But that just raises the question of
where the energy came from .
The answer is that
the total energy of the universe is exactly zero .
The matter in the universe
is made out of positive energy .
However ,
the matter is all attracting itself by gravity .
Two pieces of matter that
are close to each other have less energy than
the same two pieces a long way apart ,
because you have to expend energy
to separate them against the gravitational
force that is pulling them together .
Thus in a sense ,
the gravitational field has negative energy .
In the case of a universe that is
approximately uniform in space ,
one can show that this negative gravitational energy
exactly cancels the positive energy
represented by the matter .
So the total energy of the universe is zero .
Now twice zero is also zero .
Thus the universe can
double the amount of positive matter energy
and also double the negative gravitational energy
without violation of the conservation of energy .
...
It is said that there's no such thing as a free lunch .
But the universe is the ultimate free lunch . "
.
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| User: "Grantland" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
01 Feb 2004 08:12:56 AM |
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Jeff Relf <Me@Privacy.NET> wrote:
Hi Mark ,
Re: Gravity as negative mass-energy ,
equal and opposite to all positive mass-energy ,
You comment , " Not sure I understand . "
Here's how Hawking explains it ,
From " Generation Terrorists. COM "
http://www.GenerationTerrorists.COM/quotes/abhotswh.html
" There are something like ten million million
million million million million million million
million million million million million million
( 1 with eighty zeroes after it ) particles
in the region of the universe that we can observe .
Where did they all come from ?
The answer is that , in quantum theory ,
particles can be created out of energy
in the form of particle / antiparticle parts .
But that just raises the question of
where the energy came from .
The answer is that
the total energy of the universe is exactly zero .
The matter in the universe
is made out of positive energy .
However ,
the matter is all attracting itself by gravity .
Two pieces of matter that
are close to each other have less energy than
the same two pieces a long way apart ,
because you have to expend energy
to separate them against the gravitational
force that is pulling them together .
Thus in a sense ,
the gravitational field has negative energy .
In the case of a universe that is
approximately uniform in space ,
one can show that this negative gravitational energy
exactly cancels the positive energy
represented by the matter .
So the total energy of the universe is zero .
Now twice zero is also zero .
Thus the universe can
double the amount of positive matter energy
and also double the negative gravitational energy
without violation of the conservation of energy .
...
It is said that there's no such thing as a free lunch .
But the universe is the ultimate free lunch . "
So why don't we observe new matter being created as the universe
expands?
Grantland
.
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| User: "Double-A" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
08 Feb 2004 05:31:23 PM |
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(Grantland) wrote in message news:<401d08f4.169646498@ct-news.iafrica.com>...
[snip]
So why don't we observe new matter being created as the universe
expands?
Grantland
I remember reading years ago that scientists thought that hydrogen
atoms were "condensing" in certain regions of space, perhaps it was at
the edge of galaxies. I don't know if anyone still holds to this
theory, but it has been considered.
Double-A
.
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| User: "Grantland" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
09 Feb 2004 08:55:33 PM |
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(Double-A) wrote:
mithril@iafrica.com (Grantland) wrote in message news:<401d08f4.169646498@ct-news.iafrica.com>...
[snip]
So why don't we observe new matter being created as the universe
expands?
Grantland
I remember reading years ago that scientists thought that hydrogen
atoms were "condensing" in certain regions of space, perhaps it was at
the edge of galaxies. I don't know if anyone still holds to this
theory, but it has been considered.
Double-Breast
Bullssshhhhhit!
wally
.
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| User: "Jeff Relf" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
01 Feb 2004 09:00:55 AM |
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Hi Grantland ,
Re: Gravity as negative mass-energy ,
equal and opposite to all positive mass-energy ,
You ask , " So why don't we observe new matter being created
as the universe expands ? " .
After say , 10 ^ 99999 years ,
some hypothetical human would see no mass-energy ,
i.e. effectively zero degrees Kelvin .
The observed accelerated expansion of our universe
can be visualized as a space-time membrane
that is being stretched into a fifth dimension .
The tics of that dimension are measured in degrees Kelvin .
Some call that dimension " Cosmic time " ,
I call it " The heatscape " , or the mass-energy-scape .
And I think that entropy ( i.e. wasted heat ) ,
is what's stretching out the fabric of
that space-timescape membrane ,
like a tiny hitch in the " Normal " order of things .
Hawking radiation says :
- Frozen stars ( a.k.a. Black holes )
will slowly evaporate until they explode .
- The universe will slowly lose all of it's heat .
i.e. All of it's mass-energy and gravity .
From " The Science Times " , New York Times ,
January 1 , 2002 , and archived by
CWRU. EDU , ( Case Western Reserve University )
http://www.phys.CWRU.EDU/~krauss/02ENDrev.html
Also http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/end.html
" The galaxies themselves , astronomers say ,
will collapse in black holes
within about 10 ^ 30 years .
...
Black holes the mass of the sun
would take 10 ^ 64 years to explode .
[ Due to Hawking radiation . ]
...
black holes the mass of a galaxy
[ take ] 10 ^ 98 years [ to explode ]
...
The same calculations that predict black holes
should explode also predict that
in an accelerating universe space should be
filled with so-called Hawking radiation .
In effect , the horizon -
the farthest distance we can see -
looks mathematically like the surface of a black hole .
The amount of this radiation
is expected to be incredibly small -
corresponding to a fraction of a billionth
of a billionth of a billionth of a degree
above absolute zero ,
but that is enough to doom sentient life .
" The Hawking radiation kills us
because it gives a minimum temperature
below which you cannot cool anything . " ,
said Dr. Krauss .
Once an organism cools to that temperature ,
he explained ,
it would dissipate energy at some fixed rate .
" Since [ in the universe as we perceive it ]
there is a finite total energy ,
this means a finite lifetime . "
.
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| User: "R. Foreman" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
01 Feb 2004 03:38:02 PM |
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Jeff Relf <Me@Privacy.NET> Spat the Words
black holes the mass of a galaxy
[ take ] 10 ^ 98 years [ to explode ]
...
Well I'm not waiting around for that to happen. I'm outta
here while the gettins good. ;-|
.
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| User: "Grantland" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
01 Feb 2004 12:42:58 PM |
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Jeff Relf <Me@Privacy.NET> wrote:
Hi Grantland ,
Re: Gravity as negative mass-energy ,
equal and opposite to all positive mass-energy ,
You ask , " So why don't we observe new matter being created
as the universe expands ? " .
After say , 10 ^ 99999 years ,
some hypothetical human would see no mass-energy ,
i.e. effectively zero degrees Kelvin .
The observed accelerated expansion of our universe
can be visualized as a space-time membrane
that is being stretched into a fifth dimension .
The tics of that dimension are measured in degrees Kelvin .
Some call that dimension " Cosmic time " ,
I call it " The heatscape " , or the mass-energy-scape .
And I think that entropy ( i.e. wasted heat ) ,
is what's stretching out the fabric of
that space-timescape membrane ,
like a tiny hitch in the " Normal " order of things .
Hawking radiation says :
- Frozen stars ( a.k.a. Black holes )
will slowly evaporate until they explode .
- The universe will slowly lose all of it's heat .
i.e. All of it's mass-energy and gravity .
From " The Science Times " , New York Times ,
January 1 , 2002 , and archived by
CWRU. EDU , ( Case Western Reserve University )
http://www.phys.CWRU.EDU/~krauss/02ENDrev.html
Also http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/end.html
" The galaxies themselves , astronomers say ,
will collapse in black holes
within about 10 ^ 30 years .
...
Black holes the mass of the sun
would take 10 ^ 64 years to explode .
[ Due to Hawking radiation . ]
...
black holes the mass of a galaxy
[ take ] 10 ^ 98 years [ to explode ]
...
The same calculations that predict black holes
should explode also predict that
in an accelerating universe space should be
filled with so-called Hawking radiation .
In effect , the horizon -
the farthest distance we can see -
looks mathematically like the surface of a black hole .
The amount of this radiation
is expected to be incredibly small -
corresponding to a fraction of a billionth
of a billionth of a billionth of a degree
above absolute zero ,
but that is enough to doom sentient life .
" The Hawking radiation kills us
because it gives a minimum temperature
below which you cannot cool anything . " ,
said Dr. Krauss .
Once an organism cools to that temperature ,
he explained ,
it would dissipate energy at some fixed rate .
" Since [ in the universe as we perceive it ]
there is a finite total energy ,
this means a finite lifetime . "
I see. So Hawking's full of it.
Grantland
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| User: "Jeff Relf" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
01 Feb 2004 06:46:22 AM |
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Hi Mark , You comment ,
" I hold hope for a quantum theory of gravity " ,
Well I can't do that of course , but in an effort to
tie the macroscopic to the microscopic ...
First there is the aforementioned temperature of the CMBR ,
where " Cosmic time " is a kind of fifth dimension .
Although classical thermodynamics is still macroscopic ,
the random motions of that heat are microscopic .
Then there's this :
The Heisenberg Uncertainty principle
sets a limit on what we can simultaneously know
about the position and canonical momentum of atoms ,
i.e. they're are never perfectly still ...
... zero degrees Kelvin is impossible .
From http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmo_constant.html
" The [ negative , gravitationally repulsive ]
vacuum energy density leads to
an accelerating expansion of the Universe . "
...
" Now we have the supernova data that suggests that
the vacuum energy density is greater than zero . "
And finally , this :
Gravitational acceleration creates a floor ,
below which a measured temperature can not go .
From _ The Classical Vacuum _ ,
Scientific American, August 1985 ,
" EFFECT OF ACCELERATION through tire vacuum
is to change the spectrum of observed radiation .
At a temperature of absolute zero
a harmonic oscillator in a frame of reference at rest
or moving with constant velocity
is subject only to zero-point oscillations .
In an accelerated frame
the oscillator responds as if
it were at a temperature greater than zero . "
....
" If one again invokes the equivalence principle
relating an observer in a gravitational field
with an accelerating observer ,
one concludes that there is
a minimum attainable temperature
in a gravitational field .
This limit is an absolute one , quite apart from
any practical difficulties of reaching low temperatures .
At the surface of the earth
the limit is 4 x 10**(-20) degree Kelvin . "
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| User: "Jeff Relf" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
01 Feb 2004 05:22:33 AM |
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Hi Mark , You comment ,
" I think what Hawking dislikes about string theory is
that it is purely philosophical in nature "
When you try to unify Scientific equations ,
like string theory does ,
the equations get very hairy and ugly .
( Besides the fact that it doesn't even work )
So there is no scientific reason to even attempt this ,
only a philosophical one .
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| User: "Mark" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
01 Feb 2004 05:50:39 AM |
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"Jeff Relf" <Me@Privacy.NET> wrote in message
news:erndwpe2b71g$.dlg@x.Jeff.Relf...
Hi Mark , You comment ,
" I think what Hawking dislikes about string theory is
that it is purely philosophical in nature "
When you try to unify Scientific equations ,
like string theory does ,
the equations get very hairy and ugly .
( Besides the fact that it doesn't even work )
So there is no scientific reason to even attempt this ,
only a philosophical one .
I understand... but there is a strong philosophical desire to reconcile the
forces we observe in nature... to understand them. The scientific principle
might be a perception that there is a 'cause' and 'effect' relationship to
most everything we observe... Science was once a branch of philosophy, so
much of its philosophical nature carries on... repugnant as that may seem to
the purist.
The idea that the Universe has *always* been here is also repugnant... and
the observation that it appears to be dynamic, that is, evolving in
'time'... hints at the possibility that it had an origin sometime in the
past.
We must seek the cause of its origin... it is our nature to do so.
It may not have been a singularity... perhaps a violent clash of two or more
dimensional 'slivers' of something we can't quite imagine... but the
suggested evidence of an origin (or beginning) suggests and implies a
termination point... an end.
You have given it much thought... have you asked yourself why you are
curious?
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| User: "Absolute Zero" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
01 Feb 2004 08:29:04 AM |
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"Mark" <mburggra1@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:jK5Tb.7219$uM2.491@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Jeff Relf" <Me@Privacy.NET> wrote in message
news:erndwpe2b71g$.dlg@x.Jeff.Relf...
Hi Mark , You comment ,
" I think what Hawking dislikes about string theory is
that it is purely philosophical in nature "
When you try to unify Scientific equations ,
like string theory does ,
the equations get very hairy and ugly .
( Besides the fact that it doesn't even work )
So there is no scientific reason to even attempt this ,
only a philosophical one .
I understand... but there is a strong philosophical desire to reconcile the
forces we observe in nature... to understand them. The scientific principle
might be a perception that there is a 'cause' and 'effect' relationship to
most everything we observe... Science was once a branch of philosophy, so
much of its philosophical nature carries on... repugnant as that may seem to
the purist.
The idea that the Universe has *always* been here is also repugnant...
Why?
and
the observation that it appears to be dynamic, that is, evolving in
'time'... hints at the possibility that it had an origin sometime in the
past.
Perhaps, the big-bang was just a local event in a much larger,
hopefully (imo) infinite universe. A white hole.
I can't see that you can "logically" posit a something out of a
nothing. The universe *appears* to exist... it shouldn't. I suspect
that the main reason my preferred solution is rejected is because of
the way the human mind tends to go pfflmph when faced with true (as
opposed to mind-numbingly big) infinity... as a brief stay Mr Hilberts
Hotel tends to reveal. For us, infinity = insanity... because of the
implications.
We must seek the cause of its origin... it is our nature to do so.
And then the cause of the cause of the cause of the cause?
ad-infinitum.
It may not have been a singularity... perhaps a violent clash of two or more
dimensional 'slivers' of something we can't quite imagine... but the
suggested evidence of an origin (or beginning) suggests and implies a
termination point... an end.
imo, no start, no end, just an infinity of cycles.
You have given it much thought... have you asked yourself why you are
curious?
It's in our genes.. why else leave the oceans?
-A
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| User: "R. Foreman" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
01 Feb 2004 03:25:42 PM |
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(Absolute Zero) Spat the Words
"Mark" <mburggra1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:jK5Tb.7219$uM2.491@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Jeff Relf" <Me@Privacy.NET> wrote in message
news:erndwpe2b71g$.dlg@x.Jeff.Relf...
Hi Mark , You comment ,
" I think what Hawking dislikes about string theory is
that it is purely philosophical in nature "
When you try to unify Scientific equations ,
like string theory does ,
the equations get very hairy and ugly .
( Besides the fact that it doesn't even work )
So there is no scientific reason to even attempt this ,
only a philosophical one .
I understand... but there is a strong philosophical desire to
reconcile the forces we observe in nature... to understand them. The
scientific principle might be a perception that there is a 'cause'
and 'effect' relationship to most everything we observe... Science
was once a branch of philosophy, so much of its philosophical nature
carries on... repugnant as that may seem to the purist.
The idea that the Universe has *always* been here is also
repugnant...
Why?
and
the observation that it appears to be dynamic, that is, evolving in
'time'... hints at the possibility that it had an origin sometime in
the past.
Perhaps, the big-bang was just a local event in a much larger,
hopefully (imo) infinite universe. A white hole.
I can't see that you can "logically" posit a something out of a
nothing. The universe *appears* to exist... it shouldn't. I suspect
that the main reason my preferred solution is rejected is because of
the way the human mind tends to go pfflmph when faced with true (as
opposed to mind-numbingly big) infinity... as a brief stay Mr Hilberts
Hotel tends to reveal. For us, infinity = insanity... because of the
implications.
I disagree. For me, infinity == humility. The notion we're
in a galaxy with billions of stars, and there may be billions
of galaxies in the universe, makes me feel really small and humble.
Sure, we dominate our planet (as a species), but we are definitely
very small in the universe, and it doesn't make me crazy thinking
about it.
We must seek the cause of its origin... it is our nature to do so.
And then the cause of the cause of the cause of the cause?
ad-infinitum.
It may not have been a singularity... perhaps a violent clash of two
or more dimensional 'slivers' of something we can't quite imagine...
but the suggested evidence of an origin (or beginning) suggests and
implies a termination point... an end.
imo, no start, no end, just an infinity of cycles.
You have given it much thought... have you asked yourself why you are
curious?
It's in our genes.. why else leave the oceans?
-A
.
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| User: "Absolute Zero" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
02 Feb 2004 02:16:09 AM |
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"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:Xns948292C56AF44rrfkwrantispamattbic@204.127.204.17...
AmyCaton@GoFree.indigo.ie (Absolute Zero) Spat the Words
[...]
I can't see that you can "logically" posit a something out of a
nothing. The universe *appears* to exist... it shouldn't. I suspect
that the main reason my preferred solution is rejected is because of
the way the human mind tends to go pfflmph when faced with true (as
opposed to mind-numbingly big) infinity... as a brief stay Mr Hilberts
Hotel tends to reveal. For us, infinity = insanity... because of the
implications.
I disagree. For me, infinity == humility.
C/C++ programmer?
The notion we're
in a galaxy with billions of stars, and there may be billions
of galaxies in the universe, makes me feel really small and humble.
Sure, we dominate our planet (as a species), but we are definitely
very small in the universe, and it doesn't make me crazy thinking
about it.
Perhaps you're confusing mind-numbingly big with infinity.
For instance... if the universe is *truly* infinite then there *must*
be an infinity of recognisable Randy Foreman's stretching across all
time... because if something is possible, it doesn't matter how
improbable, it must exist... infinitely. If it didn't then it would
either have to be an absolute impossibility or not existing within an
infinity. It can't be impossible because you're here now... therefore,
given an infinite universe... there will be an infinity of R.F's just
like you. Matters not the odds, as long as it's not flat impossible
there must be an infinity of you buggers out there. :-)
(understand that I'm not talking about an infinite void... I'm talking
about a spottily populated, truly infinite universe where the big bang
is but an unremarkable and localised event... there is some evidence
suggestive of this from the HST deep field experiment)
If you think infinity sounds sane then you just haven't thought it
through. It is literally infinitely bigger than mere mind-numbingly
big.
Why people confuse the big-bang scenario with infinity... I dunno.
It's pretty straight-forward, the radius (of the supposed BB universe)
= the speed of light multiplied by the age, roughly (300,000 *
(seconds per year) * ~14,000,000,000)km (assuming the speed of light
has remained constant over that duration [slightly controversial]).
What makes you think that is big? Jeepers, they are numbers that fit
on a line of text, not a googol or a googolplex, almost nought by
comparison... In a TRULY infinite universe (if I've got my infinities
straight)... the "big"-bang expansion approaches the infinitesimal.
Head spinning? No? It should be, try a brief stay at Hilbert's Hotel
and be sure to leave your assumptions at reception.
This, I would suggest, is why cosmologists tend to dismiss the
possibility... not that they have any solid evidence. The human brain
tends to collapse in the face of infinities and look away... even
though, imo, it cauterises a bunch of creation-causality philosophical
issues.
-A
We must seek the cause of its origin... it is our nature to do so.
And then the cause of the cause of the cause of the cause?
ad-infinitum.
It may not have been a singularity... perhaps a violent clash of two
or more dimensional 'slivers' of something we can't quite imagine...
but the suggested evidence of an origin (or beginning) suggests and
implies a termination point... an end.
imo, no start, no end, just an infinity of cycles.
You have given it much thought... have you asked yourself why you are
curious?
It's in our genes.. why else leave the oceans?
-A
.
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| User: "R. Foreman" |
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| Title: Re: Suggestions wanted answers given Rant-o-ages |
03 Feb 2004 12:18:03 PM |
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(Absolute Zero) Spat the Words
"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns948292C56AF44rrfkwrantispamattbic@204.127.204.17...
(Absolute Zero) Spat the Words
[...]
I can't see that you can "logically" posit a something out of a
nothing. The universe *appears* to exist... it shouldn't. I suspect
that the main reason my preferred solution is rejected is because
of the way the human mind tends to go pfflmph when faced with true
(as opposed to mind-numbingly big) infinity... as a brief stay Mr
Hilberts Hotel tends to reveal. For us, infinity = insanity...
because of the implications.
I disagree. For me, infinity == humility.
C/C++ programmer?
The notion we're
in a galaxy with billions of stars, and there may be billions
of galaxies in the universe, makes me feel really small and humble.
Sure, we dominate our planet (as a species), but we are definitely
very small in the universe, and it doesn't make me crazy thinking
about it.
Perhaps you're confusing mind-numbingly big with infinity.
For instance... if the universe is *truly* infinite then there *must*
be an infinity of recognisable Randy Foreman's stretching across all
time... because if something is possible, it doesn't matter how
improbable, it must exist... infinitely. If it didn't then it would
either have to be an absolute impossibility or not existing within an
infinity. It can't be impossible because you're here now... therefore,
given an infinite universe... there will be an infinity of R.F's just
like you. Matters not the odds, as long as it's not flat impossible
there must be an infinity of you buggers out there. :-)
Yes, I took that statistical thermodynamics class - given a
long enough time period, even unlikely events occur, like water
flowing uphill.
Just because we can imagine something in our mind doesn't mean
it's physically possible. Our mind can go places physics | | | | | | | | | | | |
