Protecting freedom and democracy is something you're supposed to do IN
BETWEEN making money................
CIA Torture Jet wrecks with 4 Tons of COCAINE
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/12/12/19210/608/933/420107
This Florida based Gulfstream II jet aircraft # N987SA crash landed
on September 24, 2007 after it ran out of fuel over Mexico's Yucatan
Peninsula it had a cargo of several tons of Cocaine on board now
documents have turned up on both sides of the Atlantic that link this
Cocaine Smuggling Gulfstream II jet aircraft # N987SA that crashed in
Mexico to the CIA who used it on at least 3 rendition flights from
Europe and the USA to Guantanamo's infamous torture chambers between
2003 to 2005.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
20 Dec 2007 09:33:09 PM |
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On Dec 20, 6:30 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
They absolutely should have done something about something they
"knew absolutely nothing about".
I never said they knew absolutely nothing about it. My argument has
always been to counter your conspiracy theory that they were not
involved in drug trafficking. Why must you be so damned dishonest? I
posted articles that said they knew about it, but that's not the same
as *running* a drug trafficking operation. Get your facts straight for
once.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
16 Dec 2007 07:13:19 PM |
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On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:19:23 -0800, John Lemke wrote:
On Dec 16, 4:59 pm, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
JL says
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
Laughing at the CIA for not knowing everything? Do you understand the
nature of intelligence gathering? It's not an exact science.
Every plane, CIA owned or controlled or not, at one time or another
carried opium out of Laos and the greatest intelligenc agency in the
world was oblivious to it while Golden Triangle heroin use exploded in
the U.S and among American troops in Vietnam?
And they were shocked, shocked I tell you, to find evidence of the torture
of prisoners going on at Abu Graib.
Ignorance has become a common excuse for you and yours, Stevie. Getting
to be a bad habit since the people you support starting using it to
explain Iraq.
Actually, this kinda makes me wonder whether the skyrocketing of opium
production in Afghanistan is because Bush screwed up there, too, or
because he actually didn't.... ;-)
Woods
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| User: "John Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
16 Dec 2007 07:55:13 PM |
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Woodswun wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:19:23 -0800, John Lemke wrote:
On Dec 16, 4:59 pm, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
JL says
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
Laughing at the CIA for not knowing everything? Do you understand the
nature of intelligence gathering? It's not an exact science.
Every plane, CIA owned or controlled or not, at one time or another
carried opium out of Laos and the greatest intelligenc agency in the
world was oblivious to it while Golden Triangle heroin use exploded in
the U.S and among American troops in Vietnam?
And they were shocked, shocked I tell you, to find evidence of the torture
of prisoners going on at Abu Graib.
Where were all the whislteblowers back when Air America was flying out
of Laos from 1955 - 1974? That's an awful lot of air traffic.You'd
think somebody would have said something to someone. Taken a picture
or something.
Ignorance has become a common excuse for you and yours, Stevie. Getting
to be a bad habit since the people you support starting using it to
explain Iraq.
Actually, this kinda makes me wonder whether the skyrocketing of opium
production in Afghanistan is because Bush screwed up there, too, or
because he actually didn't.... ;-)
Woods
Wonder what they're financing now and not telling us about it? :-)
I've read where the Taliban did a much better job keeping poppy
production under control. That ought to raise the hackles of a great
Christian president.
Might make us look forward to Mullah Omar to riding back into town on
another little motorcycle.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
16 Dec 2007 11:40:01 PM |
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On Dec 16, 5:55 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
Woodswun wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:19:23 -0800, John Lemke wrote:
On Dec 16, 4:59 pm, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
JL says
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
Laughing at the CIA for not knowing everything? Do you understand the
nature of intelligence gathering? It's not an exact science.
Every plane, CIA owned or controlled or not, at one time or another
carried opium out of Laos and the greatest intelligenc agency in the
world was oblivious to it while Golden Triangle heroin use exploded in
the U.S and among American troops in Vietnam?
And they were shocked, shocked I tell you, to find evidence of the torture
of prisoners going on at Abu Graib.
Where were all the whislteblowers back when Air America was flying out
of Laos from 1955 - 1974? That's an awful lot of air traffic.You'd
think somebody would have said something to someone. Taken a picture
or something.
You know how good the government is <said with sarcasm> at keeping
secrets. Something of this nature, if true, would have been leaked
long ago. And then followed up with all sorts of investigations. If
there is proof of McCoy's "thesis" you should show it here. I'll wait.
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| User: "John Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
20 Dec 2007 07:43:28 AM |
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On Dec 17, 12:40 am, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
Where were all the whislteblowers back when Air America was flying out
of Laos from 1955 - 1974? That's an awful lot of air traffic.You'd
think somebody would have said something to someone. Taken a picture
or something.
You know how good the government is <said with sarcasm> at keeping
secrets.
I know how good they can be about making lame excuses about poor
intelligence.
Something of this nature, if true, would have been leaked
long ago. And then followed up with all sorts of investigations. If
there is proof of McCoy's "thesis" you should show it here. I'll wait.
People have been discussing this for years.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/3433
But the CIA's involvement in this traffic was widely known in the
Sixties and Seventies, and was amply documented in Alfred McCoy's book
The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia (Harper and Row, 1972), which
I cited in my article, referring in particular to the chapter on the
drug trade in Laos. In his letter Colby ignores McCoy's evidence,
which led to this conclusion:
American diplomats and secret agents have been involved in the
narcotics traffic at three levels: (1) coincidental complicity by
allying with groups actively engaged in the drug traffic; (2) abetting
the traffic by covering up for known heroin traffickers and condoning
their involvement; (3) and active engagement in the transport of opium
and heroin. It is ironic, to say the least, that America's heroin
plague is of its own making. [p. 14]
<same old same old vis a vis Nicaragua>
The book is online and can be read by anyone.
http://www.drugtext.org/library/books/McCoy/default.htm
I'd suggest avoiding any wishful assumptions about congressional
investigations, etc.
I'd call the following a must read. Excellent primer.
A 1991 interview with Professor McCoy, Columbia and Yale university
educated.
http://www.bearcave.com/bookrev/nugan_hand.html
Finally, if there were any allegations about the involvement of their
allies in the drug trade, the CIA would use their good offices to
quash those allegations.
This meant that these drug lords, connected with the CIA, and
protected by the CIA, were able to release periodic heroin surges, and
[in Latin America] periodic cocaine surges. You can trace very
precisely during the 40 years of the cold war, the upsurge in
narcotics supply in the United States with covert operations.
<and follow the money and William Colby hehehe>
A short word from Micheal Levine
http://www.serendipity.li/wod/levine.html
Mr. Levine's resume:
http://www.lawsonline.com/Levine/cv.html
That ought to keep us all busy for awhile.
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
20 Dec 2007 07:33:12 PM |
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On Dec 20, 5:43 am, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
On Dec 17, 12:40 am, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
Where were all the whislteblowers back when Air America was flying out
of Laos from 1955 - 1974? That's an awful lot of air traffic.You'd
think somebody would have said something to someone. Taken a picture
or something.
You know how good the government is <said with sarcasm> at keeping
secrets.
I know how good they can be about making lame excuses about poor
intelligence.
Are you including British, French, German, and Russian intelligence in
your grand conspiracy? Meanwhile, you dodged the point of my
statement. If there was proof of your "CIA trafficking in drugs"
conspiracy, it would have leaked long ago. You know the government
can't keep secrets. If it could, how would you know about the NSA
eavesdropping program? Or any of the many other secrets that have
leaked?
Something of this nature, if true, would have been leaked
long ago. And then followed up with all sorts of investigations. If
there is proof of McCoy's "thesis" you should show it here. I'll wait.
People have been discussing this for years.
People have been discussing the "FDR knew about Pearl Harbor and let
it happen" conspiracy theory for years too. People have been
discussing the JFK assassination conspiracy theories for years too. So
what? Now they're discussing controlled demolition at the WTC.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/3433
But the CIA's involvement in this traffic was widely known in the
Sixties and Seventies, and was amply documented in Alfred McCoy's book
The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia (Harper and Row, 1972), which
I cited in my article, referring in particular to the chapter on the
drug trade in Laos. In his letter Colby ignores McCoy's evidence,
which led to this conclusion:
American diplomats and secret agents have been involved in the
narcotics traffic at three levels: (1) coincidental complicity by
allying with groups actively engaged in the drug traffic; (2) abetting
the traffic by covering up for known heroin traffickers and condoning
their involvement; (3) and active engagement in the transport of opium
and heroin. It is ironic, to say the least, that America's heroin
plague is of its own making. [p. 14]
<same old same old vis a vis Nicaragua>
The book is online and can be read by anyone.
http://www.drugtext.org/library/books/McCoy/default.htm
I'd suggest avoiding any wishful assumptions about congressional
investigations, etc.
Why? Because there is no credible evidence? Or because everyone in
Washington DC really knows about it, but they're all winking at each
other? All of them are involved? All of them are on the take? Or
whatever is causing them to remain silent? All of them? Really?
I'd call the following a must read. Excellent primer.
A 1991 interview with Professor McCoy, Columbia and Yale university
educated.
More of McCoy's "thesis"?
http://www.bearcave.com/bookrev/nugan_hand.html
Finally, if there were any allegations about the involvement of their
allies in the drug trade, the CIA would use their good offices to
quash those allegations.
This meant that these drug lords, connected with the CIA, and
protected by the CIA, were able to release periodic heroin surges, and
[in Latin America] periodic cocaine surges. You can trace very
precisely during the 40 years of the cold war, the upsurge in
narcotics supply in the United States with covert operations.
<and follow the money and William Colby hehehe>
A short word from Micheal Levine
http://www.serendipity.li/wod/levine.html
Mr. Levine's resume:
http://www.lawsonline.com/Levine/cv.html
That ought to keep us all busy for awhile.
Why is Michael Levine so alone? Why hasn't even one person stepped up
to give him some *proof* -- instead of allowing him to dangle out
there having only McCoy's "thesis" from which to quote?
.
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| User: "Pers3id" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
16 Dec 2007 05:08:40 PM |
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Woodswun <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in
news:47652c38$0$29658$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 17:38:15 -0600, Pers3id wrote:
John Lemke <jflemke@locallink.net> wrote in
news:a8578c9f-ef98-47a2-8478-
65fcdae6b8ad@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com:
On Dec 15, 9:12 am, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
So the CIA was aware of the FDN's drug trafficking activities and
did nothing to stop it. That is a huge step from implying the CIA
were trafficking in drugs themselves. Ya gotta love those rags to
riches to rags stories though.. poor south LA boy does well, owning
properties all over southern California, then winds up in Federal
prison for life.
Feast:
http://ciadrugs.homestead.com/files/outline.html#intro
Lovely. Why do you suppose the cia would need to raise money selling
drugs? I mean, I'm sure they get hundreds of billions each year in
play money from the US taxpayers.
Well, they can always bank the info on their drug dealers for later
rendition when they are no longer useful to us. Noriega springs to
mind ....
Woods
Personally I have a hard time seeing the profit motive. The US Gov't never,
ever sees money as an obstacle if there's something they want. Power and
control are always the goals. I'm sure playing drug-trafficker is one of
the games they play.
.
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| User: "John Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
16 Dec 2007 05:20:46 PM |
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On Dec 16, 6:08 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote innews:47652c38$0$29658$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
Well, they can always bank the info on their drug dealers for later
rendition when they are no longer useful to us. Noriega springs to
mind ....
Woods
Personally I have a hard time seeing the profit motive. The US Gov't never,
ever sees money as an obstacle if there's something they want. Power and
control are always the goals. I'm sure playing drug-trafficker is one of
the games they play.
Maybe people in that sort of work just like "neat ideas".
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/i_thought_using_the_ayatollah-s_money_to_support/217496.html
.
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| User: "Pers3id" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
16 Dec 2007 05:28:56 PM |
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John Lemke <jflemke@locallink.net> wrote in
news:96608142-0da3-4c3b-a913-8ddab9952e24@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Dec 16, 6:08 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote
innews:47652c38$0$29658$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
Well, they can always bank the info on their drug dealers for later
rendition when they are no longer useful to us. Noriega springs to
mind ....
Woods
Personally I have a hard time seeing the profit motive. The US Gov't
never, ever sees money as an obstacle if there's something they want.
Power and control are always the goals. I'm sure playing
drug-trafficker is one of the games they play.
Maybe people in that sort of work just like "neat ideas".
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/i_thought_using_the_ayatollah-s_money_t
o_support/217496.html
Yeah.. I'm sure there's a reason Olly never went past Colonel.
.
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| User: "John Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
16 Dec 2007 07:04:33 PM |
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On Dec 16, 6:28 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote innews:96608142-0da3-4c3b-a913-8ddab9952e24@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
On Dec 16, 6:08 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote
innews:47652c38$0$29658$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
Well, they can always bank the info on their drug dealers for later
rendition when they are no longer useful to us. Noriega springs to
mind ....
Woods
Personally I have a hard time seeing the profit motive. The US Gov't
never, ever sees money as an obstacle if there's something they want.
Power and control are always the goals. I'm sure playing
drug-trafficker is one of the games they play.
Maybe people in that sort of work just like "neat ideas".
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/i_thought_using_the_ayatollah-s_money_t
o_support/217496.html
Yeah.. I'm sure there's a reason Olly never went past Colonel.
Might have had something to do with the fact that he got his purple
from not throwing that grenade quite far enough.
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
15 Dec 2007 09:11:25 AM |
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On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:12:22 -0600, Pers3id wrote:
John Lemke <jflemke@locallink.net> wrote in news:0641d69a-75e6-4ff8-99ca-
6225b26f4377@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com:
On Dec 14, 9:42 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
I thought they were selling arms to Iran and funneling the proceeds to
the Contra rebels. I hadn't heard of any drug sales in relation to the
Iran-Contra scandal.
Ah, now ye get into the real underbelly of America there, bucko.
http://weekendinterviewshow.com/Darkalliance.html
Gary Webb was a hero.
And if you want to get real wierd google "Clinton Mena cocaine". :-)
So the CIA was aware of the FDN's drug trafficking activities and did
nothing to stop it. That is a huge step from implying the CIA were
trafficking in drugs themselves. Ya gotta love those rags to riches to
rags stories though.. poor south LA boy does well, owning properties all
over southern California, then winds up in Federal prison for life.
The FDN was created by the CIA, you know...
Woods
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
15 Dec 2007 11:45:29 AM |
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On Dec 15, 7:11 am, Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:12:22 -0600, Pers3id wrote:
John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote in news:0641d69a-75e6-4ff8-99ca-
6225b26f4...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com:
On Dec 14, 9:42 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
I thought they were selling arms to Iran and funneling the proceeds to
the Contra rebels. I hadn't heard of any drug sales in relation to the
Iran-Contra scandal.
Ah, now ye get into the real underbelly of America there, bucko.
http://weekendinterviewshow.com/Darkalliance.html
Gary Webb was a hero.
And if you want to get real wierd google "Clinton Mena cocaine". :-)
So the CIA was aware of the FDN's drug trafficking activities and did
nothing to stop it. That is a huge step from implying the CIA were
trafficking in drugs themselves. Ya gotta love those rags to riches to
rags stories though.. poor south LA boy does well, owning properties all
over southern California, then winds up in Federal prison for life.
The FDN was created by the CIA, you know...
There were no Contra groups prior to the formation of the FDN?
.
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| User: "Pers3id" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
15 Dec 2007 04:50:17 PM |
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Woodswun <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in
news:4763ee9d$0$15416$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:12:22 -0600, Pers3id wrote:
John Lemke <jflemke@locallink.net> wrote in
news:0641d69a-75e6-4ff8-99ca-
6225b26f4377@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com:
On Dec 14, 9:42 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
I thought they were selling arms to Iran and funneling the proceeds
to the Contra rebels. I hadn't heard of any drug sales in relation
to the Iran-Contra scandal.
Ah, now ye get into the real underbelly of America there, bucko.
http://weekendinterviewshow.com/Darkalliance.html
Gary Webb was a hero.
And if you want to get real wierd google "Clinton Mena cocaine".
:-)
So the CIA was aware of the FDN's drug trafficking activities and did
nothing to stop it. That is a huge step from implying the CIA were
trafficking in drugs themselves. Ya gotta love those rags to riches
to rags stories though.. poor south LA boy does well, owning
properties all over southern California, then winds up in Federal
prison for life.
The FDN was created by the CIA, you know...
Woods
I have a hunch there were pro-samoza partisans who would have opposed
the sandinistas irregardless of cia involvement. Still, I have no doubt
the cia was getting its fingers in there doing anything possible to
oppose the new socialism in nicaragua (or was it el salvador ? it's been
so many years)
.
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| User: "John Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
15 Dec 2007 05:48:55 PM |
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On Dec 15, 5:50 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote innews:4763ee9d$0$15416$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:12:22 -0600, Pers3id wrote:
John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote in
news:0641d69a-75e6-4ff8-99ca-
6225b26f4...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com:
On Dec 14, 9:42 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
I thought they were selling arms to Iran and funneling the proceeds
to the Contra rebels. I hadn't heard of any drug sales in relation
to the Iran-Contra scandal.
Ah, now ye get into the real underbelly of America there, bucko.
http://weekendinterviewshow.com/Darkalliance.html
Gary Webb was a hero.
And if you want to get real wierd google "Clinton Mena cocaine".
:-)
So the CIA was aware of the FDN's drug trafficking activities and did
nothing to stop it. That is a huge step from implying the CIA were
trafficking in drugs themselves. Ya gotta love those rags to riches
to rags stories though.. poor south LA boy does well, owning
properties all over southern California, then winds up in Federal
prison for life.
The FDN was created by the CIA, you know...
Woods
I have a hunch there were pro-samoza partisans who would have opposed
the sandinistas irregardless of cia involvement. Still, I have no doubt
the cia was getting its fingers in there doing anything possible to
oppose the new socialism in nicaragua (or was it el salvador ? it's been
so many years)
More than likely Nicaragua. But what's sovereignty got to do with
anything when you're dealing with the CIA. Another country, another
project. Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala.................
At one point 95% of all arable land in El Salvador was invested in
coffee production. That doesn't offer a lot of room for diversity in
an economy. Doesn't offer alternatives for peasants to raise other
crops, compete with large landowners, develop infrastructure and
monies for schools, hospitals, any of the basic "conveniences" we take
for granted in America.
Poor people living under the economic and political control of
benevolent capitalists.
An oligarchy that controls countries like El Salvador create the
conditions that spawn rebellion and give teeth to socialist
alternatives. You end up with people having legitimate complaints,
seeking relief from generations of poverty and political repression
being branded communists with the CIA backing local governments and
paramilitaries to control righteous political and economic change.
I think right wingers in this country given a few months living as a
poor campesino in a country like El Salvador would have ended up
screaming "Viva la revolucion" at the tops of their lungs.
It's that old American revolutionary spirit.
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
15 Dec 2007 07:40:59 PM |
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On Dec 15, 3:48 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
On Dec 15, 5:50 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote innews:4763ee9d$0$15416$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:12:22 -0600, Pers3id wrote:
John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote in
news:0641d69a-75e6-4ff8-99ca-
6225b26f4...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com:
On Dec 14, 9:42 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
I thought they were selling arms to Iran and funneling the proceeds
to the Contra rebels. I hadn't heard of any drug sales in relation
to the Iran-Contra scandal.
Ah, now ye get into the real underbelly of America there, bucko.
http://weekendinterviewshow.com/Darkalliance.html
Gary Webb was a hero.
And if you want to get real wierd google "Clinton Mena cocaine".
:-)
So the CIA was aware of the FDN's drug trafficking activities and did
nothing to stop it. That is a huge step from implying the CIA were
trafficking in drugs themselves. Ya gotta love those rags to riches
to rags stories though.. poor south LA boy does well, owning
properties all over southern California, then winds up in Federal
prison for life.
The FDN was created by the CIA, you know...
Woods
I have a hunch there were pro-samoza partisans who would have opposed
the sandinistas irregardless of cia involvement. Still, I have no doubt
the cia was getting its fingers in there doing anything possible to
oppose the new socialism in nicaragua (or was it el salvador ? it's been
so many years)
More than likely Nicaragua. But what's sovereignty got to do with
anything when you're dealing with the CIA. Another country, another
project. Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala.................
In Nicaragua, the CIA helped the Contras fight the Soviet backed
Sandinistas. Why do you always point out U.S. involvement, but fail to
mention the involvement of the Soviet Union? Leftists did the same
thing concerning South Vietnam -- they were very critical of the fact
South Vietnam relied on our support, while conveniently ignoring the
support North Vietnam received from both China and the Soviet Union.
At one point 95% of all arable land in El Salvador was invested in
coffee production. That doesn't offer a lot of room for diversity in
an economy.
Where did you get that 95% number? It's so unbelievable I had to look
it up and couldn't find it. Instead, I found articles saying coffee
amounts to 30% of El Salvador's agricultural output, and 7% of their
GDP. They actually have a rather diverse economy.
Doesn't offer alternatives for peasants to raise other
crops, compete with large landowners, develop infrastructure and
monies for schools, hospitals, any of the basic "conveniences" we take
for granted in America.
Poor people living under the economic and political control of
benevolent capitalists.
An oligarchy that controls countries like El Salvador create the
conditions that spawn rebellion and give teeth to socialist
alternatives.
The leftist rebels only make things worse by hurting the economy
wherever they attack. But making things worse is probably their aim,
right? Then they have people like you supporting them because you see
things getting worse (but it's only getting worse because your leftist
allies are making things worse).
You end up with people having legitimate complaints,
seeking relief from generations of poverty and political repression
being branded communists with the CIA backing local governments and
paramilitaries to control righteous political and economic change.
Are you thinking of Jimmy Carter's intervention in El Salvador?
I think right wingers in this country given a few months living as a
poor campesino in a country like El Salvador would have ended up
screaming "Viva la revolucion" at the tops of their lungs.
I think left wingers in this country given a few months living as a
captive citizen in a country like North Korea would have ended up
screaming "FREEDOM" at the top of their lungs.
It's that old American revolutionary spirit.
Yes, our founding fathers were really anxious to implement Communism,
weren't they?
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
15 Dec 2007 12:49:25 AM |
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On Dec 14, 9:36 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
On Dec 14, 9:42 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
I thought they were selling arms to Iran and funneling the proceeds to
the Contra rebels. I hadn't heard of any drug sales in relation to the
Iran-Contra scandal.
Ah, now ye get into the real underbelly of America there, bucko.
http://weekendinterviewshow.com/Darkalliance.html
Gary Webb was a hero.
[quoting]
Web of Deception
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 14, 2004
There was a time when Gary Webb was at the center of a huge, racially
charged national controversy.
That was eight years ago, and it turned out badly for him. Now the
California journalist is dead from self-inflicted gunshot wounds,
according to this Sacramento Bee story and other news reports.
The sad news got me thinking about the first time I called Webb, in
September 1996, to ask about his explosive series in the San Jose
Mercury News. It was called "Dark Alliance," with a logo of the CIA's
insignia superimposed over a man smoking crack.
Internet and talk radio types (particularly on black stations) were
angry that the mainstream media were refusing to cover the allegations
that supposedly linked the CIA to cocaine trafficking in America. The
problem, in my view, was that the series never said that. Webb
reported that two supporters of the Nicaraguan contras were convicted
of selling drugs in L.A., one of them saying it was on "orders . . .
from other people."
Webb acknowledged to me that he had no proof the CIA knew about this
and that others were going beyond what he had written. But what he had
written had serious problems, as subsequent investigations by The
Washington Post, the New York Times and the Los Angeles Times found.
Webb, meanwhile, began making the talk-show rounds with wilder
charges. "The evidence is growing stronger day by day that there was
some CIA involvement," he told Montel Williams. Rep. Maxine Waters (D-
Calif.) declared that "people in high places were winking and
blinking, and our children were dying." Boston Globe columnist Derrick
Jackson wrote: "The only conclusion is that Ronald Reagan said yes to
crack and the destruction of black lives at home to fund the killing
of commies abroad."
Waters certainly hasn't forgotten. In a statement, she called Webb
"one of the finest investigative journalists that our country has ever
seen" and, naming the WP, NYT and LAT, said "the major newspapers
attempted to silence him by undermining his personal character and his
professional integrity." Left unmentioned is that Webb's own paper,
the Mercury News, walked away from his charges.
The Mercury News, after defending the series, wound up backing off,
with then-editor Jerry Ceppos saying Webb's articles were
"oversimplified," left out contradictory evidence and "fell short of
my standards." When I called Webb, he called his boss's reaction
"bizarre," "misleading" and "nauseating." He was transferred to a
suburban bureau, left the paper and turned his charges into a book
before joining the staff of the California legislature.
The lesson, which has been proven many times since then, is that just
because a news outlet makes sensational charges doesn't make them
true, and just because the rest of the media challenge the charges
doesn't make them part of some cover-up.
Gary Webb was 49.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63001-2004Dec14.html
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| User: "John Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: Rendition here.......smuggle blow there............... |
15 Dec 2007 07:33:13 AM |
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On Dec 14, 9:36 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
Gary Webb was a hero.
America's Debt to Journalist Gary Webb
By Robert Parry
December 13, 2004
A rather long article all in all. Y'all do yourselves a favor and read
the whole thing.
Some excerpts below.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/121304.html
Interesting how our system works today, eh?
<excerpt>
Despite the remarkable admissions in the body of these reports, (from
government investigations into Webb's accusations) the big newspapers
showed no inclination to read beyond the press releases and executive
summaries. By fall 1998, official Washington was obsessed with the
Monica Lewinsky sex scandal, which made it easier to ignore even more
stunning contra-cocaine disclosures in the CIA's Volume Two..
In Volume Two, published Oct. 8, 1998, CIA Inspector General Hitz
identified more than 50 contras and contra-related entities implicated
in the drug trade. He also detailed how the Reagan-Bush administration
had protected these drug operations and frustrated federal
investigations, which had threatened to expose the crimes in the
mid-1980s. Hitz even published evidence that drug trafficking and
money laundering tracked into Reagan's National Security Council where
Oliver North oversaw the contra operations.
A longer excerpt:
Probes Advance
Still, Gary Webb had set in motion internal government investigations
that would bring to the surface long-hidden facts about how the Reagan-
Bush administration had conducted the contra war. The CIA's defensive
line against the contra-cocaine allegations began to break when the
spy agency published Volume One of Hitz's findings on Jan. 29, 1998.
Despite a largely exculpatory press release, Hitz's Volume One
admitted that not only were many of Webb's allegations true but that
he actually understated the seriousness of the contra-drug crimes and
the CIA's knowledge. Hitz acknowledged that cocaine smugglers played a
significant early role in the Nicaraguan contra movement and that the
CIA intervened to block an image-threatening 1984 federal
investigation into a San Francisco-based drug ring with suspected ties
to the contras. [For details, see Robert Parry's Lost History:
Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth']
On May 7, 1998, another disclosure from the government investigation
shook the CIA's weakening defenses. Rep. Maxine Waters, a California
Democrat, introduced into the Congressional Record a Feb. 11, 1982,
letter of understanding between the CIA and the Justice Department.
The letter, which had been sought by CIA Director William Casey, freed
the CIA from legal requirements that it must report drug smuggling by
CIA assets, a provision that covered both the Nicaraguan contras and
Afghan rebels who were fighting a Soviet-supported regime in
Afghanistan.
Justice Report
Another crack in the defensive wall opened when the Justice Department
released a report by its inspector general, Michael Bromwich. Given
the hostile climate surrounding Webb's series, Bromwich's report
opened with criticism of Webb. But, like the CIA's Volume One, the
contents revealed new details about government wrongdoing.
According to evidence cited by the report, the Reagan-Bush
administration knew almost from the outset of the contra war that
cocaine traffickers permeated the paramilitary operation. The
administration also did next to nothing to expose or stop the criminal
activities. The report revealed example after example of leads not
followed, corroborated witnesses disparaged, official law-enforcement
investigations sabotaged, and even the CIA facilitating the work of
drug traffickers.
The Bromwich report showed that the contras and their supporters ran
several parallel drug-smuggling operations, not just the one at the
center of Webb's series. The report also found that the CIA shared
little of its information about contra drugs with law-enforcement
agencies and on three occasions disrupted cocaine-trafficking
investigations that threatened the contras.
Though depicting a more widespread contra-drug operation than Webb had
understood, the Justice report also provided some important
corroboration about a Nicaraguan drug smuggler, Norwin Meneses, who
was a key figure in Webb's series. Bromwich cited U.S. government
informants who supplied detailed information about Meneses's operation
and his financial assistance to the contras.
For instance, Renato Pena, a money-and-drug courier for Meneses, said
that in the early 1980s, the CIA allowed the contras to fly drugs into
the United States, sell them and keep the proceeds. Pena, who also was
the northern California representative for the CIA-backed FDN contra
army, said the drug trafficking was forced on the contras by the
inadequate levels of U.S. government assistance.
The Justice report also disclosed repeated examples of the CIA and
U.S. embassies in Central America discouraging Drug Enforcement
Administration investigations, including one into alleged contra-
cocaine shipments moving through the airport in El Salvador. In an
understated conclusion, Inspector General Bromwich said secrecy
trumped all. "We have no doubt that the CIA and the U.S. Embassy were
not anxious for the DEA to pursue its investigation at the airport,"
he wrote.
CIA's Volume Two
Despite the remarkable admissions in the body of these reports, the
big newspapers showed no inclination to read beyond the press releases
and executive summaries. By fall 1998, official Washington was
obsessed with the Monica Lewinsky sex scandal, which made it easier to
ignore even more stunning contra-cocaine disclosures in the CIA's
Volume Two..
In Volume Two, published Oct. 8, 1998, CIA Inspector General Hitz
identified more than 50 contras and contra-related entities implicated
in the drug trade. He also detailed how the Reagan-Bush administration
had protected these drug operations and frustrated federal
investigations, which had threatened to expose the crimes in the
mid-1980s. Hitz even published evidence that drug trafficking and
money laundering tracked into Reagan's National Security Council where
Oliver North oversaw the contra operations.
Hitz revealed, too, that the CIA placed an admitted drug money
launderer in charge of the Southern Front contras in Costa Rica. Also,
according to Hitz's evidence, the second-in-command of contra forces
on the Northern Front in Honduras had escaped from a Colombian prison
where he was serving time for drug trafficking
In Volume Two, the CIA's defense against Webb's series had shrunk to a
tiny fig leaf: that the CIA did not conspire with the contras to raise
money through cocaine trafficking. But Hitz made clear that the contra
war took precedence over law enforcement and that the CIA withheld
evidence of contra crimes from the Justice Department, the Congress
and even the CIA's own analytical division.
Hitz found in CIA files evidence that the spy agency knew from the
first days of the contra war that its new clients were involved in the
cocaine trade. According to a September 1981 cable to CIA
headquarters, one of the early contra groups, known as ADREN, had
decided to use drug trafficking as a financing mechanism. Two ADREN
members made the first delivery of drugs to Miami in July 1981, the
CIA cable reported.
ADREN's leaders included Enrique Bermudez, who emerged as the top
contra military commander in the 1980s. Webb's series had identified
Bermudez as giving the green light to contra fundraising by drug
trafficker Meneses. Hitz's report added that that the CIA had another
Nicaraguan witness who implicated Bermudez in the drug trade in 1988.
Priorities
Besides tracing the evidence of contra-drug trafficking through the
decade-long contra war, the inspector general interviewed senior CIA
officers who acknowledged that they were aware of the contra-drug
problem but didn't want its exposure to undermine the struggle to
overthrow the leftist Sandinista government.
According to Hitz, the CIA had "one overriding priority: to oust the
Sandinista government. ... [CIA officers] were determined that the
various difficulties they encountered not be allowed to prevent
effective implementation of the contra program." One CIA field officer
explained, "The focus was to get the job done, get the support and win
the war."
Hitz also recounted complaints from CIA analysts that CIA operations
officers handling the contra war hid evidence of contra-drug
trafficking even from the CIA's analytical division. Because of the
withheld evidence, the CIA analysts incorrectly concluded in the
mid-1980s that "only a handful of contras might have been involved in
drug trafficking." That false assessment was passed on to Congress and
the major news organizations - serving as an important basis for
denouncing Gary Webb and his series in 1996.
Though Hitz's report was an extraordinary admission of institutional
guilt by the CIA, it passed almost unnoticed by the big newspapers.
Two days after Hitz's report was posted at the CIA's Internet site,
the New York Times did a brief article that continued to deride Webb's
work, while acknowledging that the contra-drug problem may indeed have
been worse than earlier understood. Several weeks later, the
Washington Post weighed in with a similarly superficial article. The
Los Angeles Times never published a story on the release of the CIA's
Volume Two.
Consequences
To this day, no editor or reporter who missed the contra-drug story
has been punished for his or her negligence. Indeed, many of them are
now top executives at their news organizations. On the other hand,
Gary Webb's career never recovered.
At Webb's death, however, it should be noted that his great gift to
American history was that he - along with angry African-American
citizens - forced the government to admit some of the worst crimes
ever condoned by any American administration: the protection of drug
smuggling into the United States as part of a covert war against a
country, Nicaragua, that represented no real threat to Americans.
The truth was ugly. Certainly the major news organizations would have
come under criticism themselves if they had done their job and laid
out this troubling story to the American people. Conservative
defenders of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush would have been sure
to howl in protest.
But the real tragedy of Webb's historic gift - and of his life cut
short - is that because of the major news media's callowness and
cowardice, this dark chapter of the Reagan-Bush era remains largely
unknown to the American people.
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