I have solved riddle of the Sphinx, says Frenchman
By Nic Fleming, Science Correspondent
(Filed: 14/12/2004)
Archaeologists, who are able to tell us who built the pyramids of Ancient
Egypt, have puzzled over the riddle of the Sphinx for generations.
The identity of the ruler who ordered the building of the 65ft high, 260ft long
limestone half-human statue that has guarded the Giza Plateau for 4,500 years
has been lost in the sands of time.
Workers on the Sphinx in a television reconstruction
Now, following a 20-year re-examination of historical records and uncovering
new evidence, Vassil Dobrev, a French Egyptologist, claims to have proved that
the largest single stone statue on Earth is the work of a forgotten pharaoh.
The most popular theory of the origins of the Sphinx is that it was conceived
by Khafre, a king of the Fourth Dynasty whose pyramid sits behind the statue.
However, in Secrets of the Sphinx, a documentary to be broadcast tonight on
Channel Five, Dr Dobrev says it was created by Djedefre, Khafre's half brother
and a son of Khufu, the builder of the Great Pyramid.
Dr Dobrev, of the French Archaeological Institute in Cairo, said: "It is
incredible. The most important image in Egypt, the Sphinx, and we can't say who
it was with certainty.
"This is the first time it has been proposed that the Sphinx has been built
after the death of Khufu by his son Djedefre who succeeded him."
Khafre, the builder of the nearby second pyramid at Giza who ruled from 2558 to
2532 BC, has traditionally been credited with creating the Sphinx.
He is referred to in the Dream Stella, a stone tablet that tells of a young
prince who dreamed that the Sphinx promised to make him king if he cleared the
sand from its paws. He built both the pyramid behind the Sphinx and two temples
in front of it.
However Dr Dobrev noticed that the causeway connecting Khafre's pyramid to the
temples was built around the Sphinx - meaning it was already in existence.
All known statues of Khafre show him with a beard - but the Sphinx has none. Dr
Dobrev says fragments of a giant beard found beneath the sphinx that survive in
Cairo Museum were a later addition.
Several years ago Rainer Stadelmann, the former director of the German
Institute of Archaeology in Cairo, suggested an alternative theory, that
Khafre's father Khufu - the builder of the Great Pyramid at Giza - created the
Sphinx.
A small statuette of Khufu, the only commonly acknowledged image of the
pharaoh, shows him to have a very square chin, like the Sphinx.
Dr Dobrev says he has uncovered other images of Khufu, none of which have
beards, and that this proves the sphinx represents Khufu.
The nemes, the sphinx's headdress, has markings representing two small pleats
and one large. Khufu is shown with a similar nemes in at least one other
statue.
Dr Dobrev says the Sphinx was built by Djedefre in the image of his father
Khufu, identifying him with the sun god Ra in order to restore respect for
their dynasty.
George Reisner, a respected American archaeologist in the 1930s, portrayed
Djedefre as a plotter whose tomb was built away from Giza because he tried to
murder his brother Kawab. Dr Dobrev says Reisner's theory is unsubstantiated.
He asks why a carved stone list of donations made to Kawab's daughter would
have an emblem of Djedefre on it if he was her father's murderer. He says that
Djedefre was a visionary builder who built a sun temple at Abu Roash, six miles
from Giza, a structure so far believed by archaeologists to be a pyramid.
Dr Dobrev re-examined graffiti carved by workers at a site called Zawiyet
el-Aryan and believes this shows he has uncovered Djedefre's pyramid tomb
Dr Nigel Strudwick, of the British Museum, said: "It is not implausible. But I
would need more explanation, such as why he thinks the pyramid at Abu Roash is
a sun temple, something I'm sceptical about. I have never heard anyone suggest
that the name in the graffiti at Zawiyet el-Aryan mentions Djedefre.
"I remain more convinced by the traditional argument of it being Khafre or the
more recent theory of it being Khufu."
.
|
|
| User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
15 Dec 2004 04:18:13 PM |
|
|
Here is a question. How is it that the Great Pyramid is this
outstanding physics and mathematical phenomenon, and the art portrayed
in Egypt everywhere lacks the mathematical perspective employed by
western civilizations, such as Classical Greek periods?
Care to explain this faux pas?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Absolute Zero" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
15 Dec 2004 05:33:15 PM |
|
|
Michael Johnathan McDonald wrote:
Here is a question. How is it that the Great Pyramid is this
outstanding physics and mathematical phenomenon,
The Great Pyramid isn't mathematically that remarkable, more so in terms
of sheer engineering ambition and PHENOMENAL precision.
and the art portrayed
in Egypt everywhere lacks the mathematical perspective employed by
western civilizations, such as Classical Greek periods?
Care to explain this faux pas?
I guess they were more into astronomy than maths... and realise that the
periods of great Egyptian construction preceded Greek mathematical
inquiry by two thousand years.
Euclid (circa 365-275 BC) defined what became known as the "The Golden
Ratio", Phi, 1.618
In western aesthetics, Phi is mythically considered a pleasing ratio,
but psychological testing has proven inconclusive... and the widespread
assumption that Phi was of major importance in classical design and
architecture is overstated.
To me, the Great Pyramid of Giza is *the* most awe-inspiring thing I've
ever seen, period.
-A
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
15 Dec 2004 05:52:22 PM |
|
|
Euclid (circa 365-275 BC) defined what became known as the "The Golden
Ratio", Phi, 1.618
Phi was of major importance in classical design and
architecture is overstated.
"Phi overstated?"
Maybe, but the giants Michelangelo, Massacio, Perugino, Leonardo,
Brunelleschi, Donatello, Ghiberti, and many others were the greatest
artists ( These are from the renaissance period) and they all swore by
it. In this list are arguably the best painter and best sculptor in
history. Both used and swore by Phi and Legitimate Perspective. But,
then again, I'm a westerner and what do I know ;)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Absolute Zero" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
15 Dec 2004 06:21:41 PM |
|
|
Michael Johnathan McDonald wrote:
Euclid (circa 365-275 BC) defined what became known as the "The Golden
Ratio", Phi, 1.618
Phi was of major importance in classical design and
architecture is overstated.
"Phi overstated?"
Maybe, but the giants Michelangelo, Massacio, Perugino, Leonardo,
Brunelleschi, Donatello, Ghiberti, and many others were the greatest
artists ( These are from the renaissance period) and they all swore by
it. In this list are arguably the best painter and best sculptor in
history. Both used and swore by Phi and Legitimate Perspective. But,
then again, I'm a westerner and what do I know ;)
I don't deny that Phi was considered important during the renaissance. I
mean that it wasn't particularly significant in aesthetic terms to the
Greeks. That idea seems to originate in Luco Pacolo's 1509 book 'Divina
Proportione'.
And just to redress the historical balance of maths slightly. It is
commonly thought these days that Pythagorus acquired his theorum from
the Egyptians.
-A
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
15 Dec 2004 06:44:43 PM |
|
|
Absolute Zero wrote:
Michael Johnathan McDonald wrote:
Euclid (circa 365-275 BC) defined what became known as the "The
Golden
Ratio", Phi, 1.618
Phi was of major importance in classical design and
architecture is overstated.
"Phi overstated?"
Maybe, but the giants Michelangelo, Massacio, Perugino, Leonardo,
Brunelleschi, Donatello, Ghiberti, and many others were the
greatest
artists ( These are from the renaissance period) and they all
swore by
it. In this list are arguably the best painter and best sculptor in
history. Both used and swore by Phi and Legitimate Perspective.
But,
then again, I'm a westerner and what do I know ;)
I don't deny that Phi was considered important during the
renaissance. I
mean that it wasn't particularly significant in aesthetic terms to
the
Greeks. That idea seems to originate in Luco Pacolo's 1509 book
'Divina
Proportione'.
Actually, before that it was Leon Battista Alberti who brought back
this concept ( 1425 Florence, published his treaties) from the Greeks
to Florence by way of translating Vitruvius's Ten Books on Architecture
( A famed early Roman Empire Architect who wrote on Platonic forms in
nature as related [ neo Platonism in Roman Times] to Roman
Architecture).
And just to redress the historical balance of maths slightly. It is
commonly thought these days that Pythagorus acquired his theorum from
the Egyptians.
I believe that - math comes from this region as did most other things.
However, take a look at the Egyptian Fresco Seccos and one can see they
didn't use perspective in their work. I think this is odd?
-A
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
15 Dec 2004 06:47:37 PM |
|
|
Forgot to add that Plato wrote on Pathags. theorems who we believe got
it from the Egyptians originally.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Absolute Zero" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
15 Dec 2004 07:11:09 PM |
|
|
Michael Johnathan McDonald wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:
Michael Johnathan McDonald wrote:
Euclid (circa 365-275 BC) defined what became known as the "The
Golden
Ratio", Phi, 1.618
Phi was of major importance in classical design and
architecture is overstated.
"Phi overstated?"
Maybe, but the giants Michelangelo, Massacio, Perugino, Leonardo,
Brunelleschi, Donatello, Ghiberti, and many others were the
greatest
artists ( These are from the renaissance period) and they all
swore by
it. In this list are arguably the best painter and best sculptor in
history. Both used and swore by Phi and Legitimate Perspective.
But,
then again, I'm a westerner and what do I know ;)
I don't deny that Phi was considered important during the
renaissance. I
mean that it wasn't particularly significant in aesthetic terms to
the
Greeks. That idea seems to originate in Luco Pacolo's 1509 book
'Divina
Proportione'.
Actually, before that it was Leon Battista Alberti who brought back
this concept ( 1425 Florence, published his treaties) from the Greeks
to Florence by way of translating Vitruvius's Ten Books on Architecture
( A famed early Roman Empire Architect who wrote on Platonic forms in
nature as related [ neo Platonism in Roman Times] to Roman
Architecture).
Okay, you've out-referenced me... pax ;)
And just to redress the historical balance of maths slightly. It is
commonly thought these days that Pythagorus acquired his theorum from
the Egyptians.
I believe that - math comes from this region as did most other things.
However, take a look at the Egyptian Fresco Seccos and one can see they
didn't use perspective in their work. I think this is odd?
I don't know that "Egyptian art" per-se, served the same purposes as we
commonly ascribe to such. More a stylized frieze, a formal
history/theology-telling device. Though my old friend Akhenaten,
different in every way, introduced a new culture of distinctly
naturalistic art. Sadly, once gone, almost everything of his was erased.
-A
-A
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
15 Dec 2004 07:30:34 PM |
|
|
Absolute Zero wrote:
I don't know that "Egyptian art" per-se, served the same purposes as
we
commonly ascribe to such. More a stylized frieze, a formal
That was my point and most of the art that we know about comes from the
burial chambers. So, I recon most, if not all that were exposed to
outside elements faired at all. We may never know.
history/theology-telling device. Though my old friend Akhenaten,
different in every way, introduced a new culture of distinctly
naturalistic art.
That's for sure. The 18th dynasty was a total break away from
tradition. Some say that the first political cartoons come directly
from his reign. That is if one says that some of the representations
were a little on the absurd (and/or exaggerated) side of realistic
representation (As seen in comparison today's political cartoons).
Sadly, once gone, almost everything of his was erased.
Blame on the temporal Priests - they did it - didn't want to let go of
the new found power they received under previous administrations. ;)
Signing off.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Absolute Zero" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
15 Dec 2004 06:23:29 PM |
|
|
Absolute Zero wrote:
That idea seems to originate in Luco Pacolo's 1509 book 'Divina Proportione'.
Oops, Luco Pacioli
-A
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
15 Dec 2004 05:43:40 PM |
|
|
The Great Pyramid isn't mathematically that remarkable
Bingo that the perfect response I wanted. I absolutely feel the same
way.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
15 Dec 2004 04:35:28 PM |
|
|
Your question makes no sense.
I take it you mean, that formulae used in the construction of the said
pyramid, is not represented anywhere in Egypt and that this formulae is
also used by western builders and the ancient Greeks, forgetting that
Algebra is an Arab concept!
LB
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
15 Dec 2004 05:41:56 PM |
|
|
forgetting that Algebra is an Arab concept!
So what...who told you that?
Then why is pi calculated close to perfection on Sumerian tablets and
forms of algebra are also seen on them which included advanced base 6
math concepts? That's right they lived about the same time as the
Egyptians.
You are refereeing to the ilm al-jabr wa'l-mukabala reformer of
Algebra. (c.800-847 A.C.E.)
example,
''The following problem on the Rhind Papyrus in the British Museum,
London, was ... The first treatise on algebra was written by Diophantus
of Alexandria (1650 B.C.E.). [1]''
And no - you have no idea what I said, unless you understand Art
history, and its culture with relevance to artists in period and the
positive divide in the advanced forms of math employed in the pyramid
vs. their art (lack of Perspective) in Egypt.
Ever realized that perspective was used in Greek architecture, Roman
architecture and Italian renaissance architecture (Still used in west
today) alongside all the art in those same periods, but in Egypt this
is not [was] the case. Care to explain?
[1]
http://vmoc.museophile.com/algebra/section3_1.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "Aidan" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
16 Dec 2004 04:20:37 AM |
|
|
Michael Johnathan McDonald wrote:
forgetting that Algebra is an Arab concept!
So what...who told you that?
Then why is pi calculated close to perfection on Sumerian tablets and
forms of algebra are also seen on them which included advanced base 6
math concepts? That's right they lived about the same time as the
Egyptians.
wasn't sumer smack bang in the middle of Arab home land? doesn't that make them Arabs?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kim M" |
|
| Title: Re: Riddle of the Sphinx solved? |
15 Dec 2004 12:14:31 AM |
|
|
The Sphinx was constructed as a tribute to Isis 'The Lion God'; long
before Khufu's or Khefre's existence.
The Sphinx was the 'Voice' who told Khufu to "Un-Earth Me" and build
a temple in honour to me Isis "The Lion God" (that we now know as the
Great Pyramid) using a geometric scale that (at the time was not
known to man) in his honour.
Kinda like "Build It, And They Will Follow"!!!
The Sphinx (much like the Great Pyramid) is TRULY an un-dateable
object. Any one who tells you different is a LIAR. - The Past Life
tells me that the Sphinx existed (in a different form) long before
recorded time (as we know it).
--
Just A Thought !!!
Wait, I'm receiving another transmission from the great beyond.
Wouldn't you know it,
it was a 'Wrong Number' :-(
"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041214095428.07586.00002197@mb-m01.aol.com...
I have solved riddle of the Sphinx, says Frenchman
By Nic Fleming, Science Correspondent
(Filed: 14/12/2004)
Archaeologists, who are able to tell us who built the pyramids of
Ancient
Egypt, have puzzled over the riddle of the Sphinx for generations.
The identity of the ruler who ordered the building of the 65ft
high, 260ft long
limestone half-human statue that has guarded the Giza Plateau for
4,500 years
has been lost in the sands of time.
Workers on the Sphinx in a television reconstruction
Now, following a 20-year re-examination of historical records and
uncovering
new evidence, Vassil Dobrev, a French Egyptologist, claims to have
proved that
the largest single stone statue on Earth is the work of a forgotten
pharaoh.
The most popular theory of the origins of the Sphinx is that it was
conceived
by Khafre, a king of the Fourth Dynasty whose pyramid sits behind
the statue.
However, in Secrets of the Sphinx, a documentary to be broadcast
tonight on
Channel Five, Dr Dobrev says it was created by Djedefre, Khafre's
half brother
and a son of Khufu, the builder of the Great Pyramid.
Dr Dobrev, of the French Archaeological Institute in Cairo, said:
"It is
incredible. The most important image in Egypt, the Sphinx, and we
can't say who
it was with certainty.
"This is the first time it has been proposed that the Sphinx has
been built
after the death of Khufu by his son Djedefre who succeeded him."
Khafre, the builder of the nearby second pyramid at Giza who ruled
from 2558 to
2532 BC, has traditionally been credited with creating the Sphinx.
He is referred to in the Dream Stella, a stone tablet that tells of
a young
prince who dreamed that the Sphinx promised to make him king if he
cleared the
sand from its paws. He built both the pyramid behind the Sphinx and
two temples
in front of it.
However Dr Dobrev noticed that the causeway connecting Khafre's
pyramid to the
temples was built around the Sphinx - meaning it was already in
existence.
All known statues of Khafre show him with a beard - but the Sphinx
has none. Dr
Dobrev says fragments of a giant beard found beneath the sphinx
that survive in
Cairo Museum were a later addition.
Several years ago Rainer Stadelmann, the former director of the
German
Institute of Archaeology in Cairo, suggested an alternative theory,
that
Khafre's father Khufu - the builder of the Great Pyramid at Giza -
created the
Sphinx.
A small statuette of Khufu, the only commonly acknowledged image of
the
pharaoh, shows him to have a very square chin, like the Sphinx.
Dr Dobrev says he has uncovered other images of Khufu, none of
which have
beards, and that this proves the sphinx represents Khufu.
The nemes, the sphinx's headdress, has markings representing two
small pleats
and one large. Khufu is shown with a similar nemes in at least one
other
statue.
Dr Dobrev says the Sphinx was built by Djedefre in the image of his
father
Khufu, identifying him with the sun god Ra in order to restore
respect for
their dynasty.
George Reisner, a respected American archaeologist in the 1930s,
portrayed
Djedefre as a plotter whose tomb was built away from Giza because
he tried to
murder his brother Kawab. Dr Dobrev says Reisner's theory is
unsubstantiated.
He asks why a carved stone list of donations made to Kawab's
daughter would
have an emblem of Djedefre on it if he was her father's murderer.
He says that
Djedefre was a visionary builder who built a sun temple at Abu
Roash, six miles
from Giza, a structure so far believed by archaeologists to be a
pyramid.
Dr Dobrev re-examined graffiti carved by workers at a site called
Zawiyet
el-Aryan and believes this shows he has uncovered Djedefre's
pyramid tomb
Dr Nigel Strudwick, of the British Museum, said: "It is not
implausible. But I
would need more explanation, such as why he thinks the pyramid at
Abu Roash is
a sun temple, something I'm sceptical about. I have never heard
anyone suggest
that the name in the graffiti at Zawiyet el-Aryan mentions
Djedefre.
"I remain more convinced by the traditional argument of it being
Khafre or the
more recent theory of it being Khufu."
.
|
|
|
|

|
Related Articles |
|
|