'I saw papers that show US knew al-Qa'ida would attack cities with
aeroplanes'
Whistleblower the White House wants to silence speaks to The Independent
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
02 April 2004
A former translator for the FBI with top-secret security clearance says she
has provided information to the panel investigating the 11 September attacks
which proves senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans to attack the US
with aircraft months before the strikes happened.
She said the claim by the National Security Adviser, Condoleezza Rice, that
there was no such information was "an outrageous lie".
Sibel Edmonds said she spent more than three hours in a closed session with
the commission's investigators providing information that was circulating
within the FBI in the spring and summer of 2001 suggesting that an attack
using aircraft was just months away and the terrorists were in place. The
Bush administration, meanwhile, has sought to silence her and has obtained a
gagging order from a court by citing the rarely used "state secrets
privilege".
For the rest of the story..............
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=507514
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| User: "R. Foreman" |
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| Title: Re: senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans |
02 Apr 2004 11:02:12 PM |
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" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> Spat the Words
'I saw papers that show US knew al-Qa'ida would attack cities with
aeroplanes'
Whistleblower the White House wants to silence speaks to The
Independent By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
02 April 2004
I've heard the intel community knew for years that bad guys had
tossed around the idea of airplanes as human guided bombs.
Not really surprising, anything the bad guys can think up we
can probably imagine also. I haven't heard any solid proof
the administration knew of any specific attack planned for
sept 2001.
A former translator for the FBI with top-secret security clearance
says she has provided information to the panel investigating the 11
September attacks which proves senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's
plans to attack the US with aircraft months before the strikes
happened.
She said the claim by the National Security Adviser, Condoleezza Rice,
that there was no such information was "an outrageous lie".
Sibel Edmonds said she spent more than three hours in a closed session
with the commission's investigators providing information that was
circulating within the FBI in the spring and summer of 2001 suggesting
that an attack using aircraft was just months away and the terrorists
were in place. The Bush administration, meanwhile, has sought to
silence her and has obtained a gagging order from a court by citing
the rarely used "state secrets privilege".
For the rest of the story..............
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=507514
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans |
02 Apr 2004 08:42:05 PM |
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" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote in message news:<HMOdnbtqvYziSfHdRVn-ig@locallink.net>...
'I saw papers that show US knew al-Qa'ida would attack cities with
aeroplanes'
Whistleblower the White House wants to silence speaks to The Independent
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
02 April 2004
A former translator for the FBI with top-secret security clearance says
she has provided information to the panel investigating the 11
September attacks which proves senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans
to attack the US with aircraft months before the strikes happened.
This is old news. So old in fact, it happened in August 1998.
President Clinton was the occupant of the Oval Office in 1998.
Wed Sep 18,12:59 PM ET
By KEN GUGGENHEIM, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - American intelligence agencies received far more
reports of terrorist plotting to use planes as weapons before Sept. 11
than the U.S. government has previously acknowledged, congressional
investigators said Wednesday.
While it was unclear whether any of the reports were in fact signs of
the impending attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon,
investigators said the agencies never looked closely at the potential
threat of hijacked airliners flying into buildings. Those assertions
came in a 30-page statement by Eleanor Hill, staff director for the
House and Senate intelligence inquiry into the Sept. 11 attacks.
In August 1998, U.S. intelligence learned that a "group of
unidentified Arabs planned to fly an explosive-laden plane from a
foreign country into the World Trade Center," says the report. The
report was given to the Federal Aviation Administration, which took
little action on it. The group may now be linked to bin Laden, the
report says.
Other intelligence suggested that bin Laden supporters might crash a
plane into a U.S. airport, or conduct a plot involving aircraft at New
York and Washington, the report said.
While generally aware of the possibility of this method of attack,
"the Intelligence Community did not produce any specific assessments
of the likelihood that terrorists would use airplanes as weapons," the
report said.
With revelations in the spring that President Bush had learned a month
before the attacks that that bin Laden wanted to hijack airplanes, the
White House defended the lack of disclosure of the information by
saying the president's briefing detailed plans for traditional
hijackings, not the use of airplanes as weapons.
National security adviser Condoleezza Rice said at the time that the
threat was vague and uncorroborated.
"I don't think anybody could have predicted ... that they would try to
use an airplane as missile," Rice said. "Had this president known of
something more specific or known that a plane was going to be used as
a missile, he would have acted on it."
AP Wire | 09/18/2002 |
http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/4096738.htm
CBS News | May 17, 2002
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/16/attack/main509294.shtml
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans |
02 Apr 2004 10:22:56 PM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0404021842.6bd481cf@posting.google.com...
" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote in message
news:<HMOdnbtqvYziSfHdRVn-ig@locallink.net>...
'I saw papers that show US knew al-Qa'ida would attack cities with
aeroplanes'
Whistleblower the White House wants to silence speaks to The Independent
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
02 April 2004
A former translator for the FBI with top-secret security clearance says
she has provided information to the panel investigating the 11
September attacks which proves senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's
plans
to attack the US with aircraft months before the strikes happened.
Ah, Steve "half-truth" Douglas is back.
This is old news. So old in fact, it happened in August 1998.
What happened in August 1998? The following?
"Sibel Edmonds said she spent more than three hours in a closed session with
the commission's investigators providing information that was circulating
within the FBI in the spring and summer of 2001 suggesting that an attack
using aircraft was just months away and the terrorists were in place. The
Bush administration, meanwhile, has sought to silence her and has obtained a
gagging order from a court by citing the rarely used "state secrets
privilege". "
You're simply trying to spin away the Bush Administrations probable
incompetence (or worse) by pointing to Clinton.
President Clinton was the occupant of the Oval Office in 1998.
Right, bud, who was in office in the spring and summer of 2001?
Did you bother to click on the url and read the entire story in the first
post of this thread? That's why the url is posted, with the expectation
that the reader, once given a clear idea what the article is about, will go
beyond what's pasted in the post. I do not selectively edit articles to try
to mislead the reader and "spin" an article to my point of view. I cut and
paste the first two or three paragraphs then include the url.
One can get in trouble with copyright violations if one goes too far
reproducing articles on usenet. It's also only right that an author's or a
publication's work be properly credited and viewed. Hence my use of this
method.
Here's the entire article anyway.
'I saw papers that show US knew al-Qa'ida would attack cities with
aeroplanes'
Whistleblower the White House wants to silence speaks to The Independent
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
02 April 2004
A former translator for the FBI with top-secret security clearance says she
has provided information to the panel investigating the 11 September attacks
which proves senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans to attack the US
with aircraft months before the strikes happened.
She said the claim by the National Security Adviser, Condoleezza Rice, that
there was no such information was "an outrageous lie".
Sibel Edmonds said she spent more than three hours in a closed session with
the commission's investigators providing information that was circulating
within the FBI in the spring and summer of 2001 suggesting that an attack
using aircraft was just months away and the terrorists were in place. The
Bush administration, meanwhile, has sought to silence her and has obtained a
gagging order from a court by citing the rarely used "state secrets
privilege".
She told The Independent yesterday: "I gave [the commission] details of
specific investigation files, the specific dates, specific target
information, specific managers in charge of the investigation. I gave them
everything so that they could go back and follow up. This is not hearsay.
These are things that are documented. These things can be established very
easily."
She added: "There was general information about the time-frame, about
methods to be used but not specifically about how they would be used and
about people being in place and who was ordering these sorts of terror
attacks. There were other cities that were mentioned. Major cities with
skyscrapers."
The accusations from Mrs Edmonds, 33, a Turkish-American who speaks
Azerbaijani, Farsi, Turkish and English, will reignite the controversy over
whether the administration ignored warnings about al-Qa'ida. That
controversy was sparked most recently by Richard Clarke, a former
counter-terrorism official, who has accused the administration of ignoring
his warnings.
The issue what the administration knew and when is central to the
investigation by the 9/11 Commission, which has been hearing testimony in
public and private from government officials, intelligence officials and
secret sources. Earlier this week, the White House made a U-turn when it
said that Ms Rice would appear in public before the commission to answer
questions. Mr Bush and his deputy, ***** Cheney, will also be questioned in a
closed-door session.
Mrs Edmonds, 33, says she gave her evidence to the commission in a specially
constructed "secure" room at its offices in Washington on 11 February. She
was hired as a translator for the FBI's Washington field office on 13
September 2001, just two days after the al-Qa'ida attacks. Her job was to
translate documents and recordings from FBI wire-taps.
She said said it was clear there was sufficient information during the
spring and summer of 2001 to indicate terrorists were planning an attack.
"Most of what I told the commission 90 per cent of it related to the
investigations that I was involved in or just from working in the
department. Two hundred translators side by side, you get to see and hear a
lot of other things as well."
"President Bush said they had no specific information about 11 September and
that is accurate but only because he said 11 September," she said. There
was, however, general information about the use of airplanes and that an
attack was just months away.
To try to refute Mr Clarke's accusations, Ms Rice said the administration
did take steps to counter al-Qa'ida. But in an opinion piece in The
Washington Post on 22 March, Ms Rice wrote: "Despite what some have
suggested, we received no intelligence that terrorists were preparing to
attack the homeland using airplanes as missiles, though some analysts
speculated that terrorists might hijack planes to try and free US-held
terrorists."
Mrs Edmonds said that by using the word "we", Ms Rice told an "outrageous
lie". She said: "Rice says 'we' not 'I'. That would include all people from
the FBI, the CIA and DIA [Defence Intelligence Agency]. I am saying that is
impossible."
It is impossible at this stage to verify Mrs Edmonds' claims. However, some
senior US senators testified to her credibility in 2002 when she went public
with separate allegations relating to alleged incompetence and corruption
within the FBI's translation department.
2 April 2004 22:51
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans |
03 Apr 2004 04:04:38 PM |
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" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote in message news:<C56dnYl3fuWuoPPdRVn-ig@locallink.net>...
Ah, Steve "half-truth" Douglas is back.
Oh, I see ... you post an article that makes this disclaimer:
"It is impossible at this stage to verify Mrs Edmonds' claims."
And we're supposed to accept your information as "The Truth." But when
I have merely *responded* to your "half-truths" with additional facts,
you label mine as the "half-truth." Ah yes, but of course your source
is "The Truth." Okay, John "Full of Himself" Lemke, I just wanted to
make sure I've got that straight.
This is old news. So old in fact, it happened in August 1998.
What happened in August 1998? The following?
"Sibel Edmonds said she spent more than three hours in a closed session with
the commission's investigators providing information that was circulating
within the FBI in the spring and summer of 2001 suggesting that an attack
using aircraft was just months away and the terrorists were in place.
Fine, a woman who was hired September 13, 2001 is testifiying about
what was circulating within the FBI in the spring and summer -- well
before she was hired. Okay.
You're simply trying to spin away the Bush Administrations probable
incompetence (or worse) by pointing to Clinton.
I merely posted a factual article that stated in August 1998, the
intelligence community was aware of a plot by a group of Arabs to fly
planes from overseas into buildings. The intelligence community
apparently took little action on this info.
President Clinton was the occupant of the Oval Office in 1998.
Right, bud, who was in office in the spring and summer of 2001?
Did you bother to click on the url and read the entire story in the first
post of this thread?
OF course I did. I wouldn't have responded unless I had read it.
That's why the url is posted, with the expectation
that the reader,
once given a clear idea what the article is about, will go beyond
what's pasted in the post.
Hmm ... I wonder why you assumed I hadn't read the entire article???
I do not selectively edit articles to try to mislead the reader and
"spin" an article to my point of view. I cut and paste the first
two or three paragraphs then include the url.
I always include a url when quoting from a source. Sometimes I
highlight parts of an article to make my point, and then I include the
url for anyone who wishes to read the entire article.
One can get in trouble with copyright violations if one goes too far
reproducing articles on usenet. It's also only right that an
author's or a publication's work be properly credited and viewed.
Hence, my use of this method.
I agree.
Here's the entire article anyway. <snip>
I read it, I read it.
Now, maybe you should read the articles I posted. They make the point
that the President's daily intelligence briefing had NOT made a
specific point about planes being used as weapons. Possible hijackings
were discussed, but before 9/11, hijackings were known as taking a
plane from point A to point B ... not to use them as missles.
Do you realize what a wacko one must be to believe President Bush
*knew* of the September 11 attacks in advance? One must then believe
that President Clinton also knew. Richard Clarke, who served both
administrations, would have *definitely* known -- "if" the information
had been there to be known. How many people would have had to know,
from BOTH administrtations?
I was listening to Al Franken's new radio show on his first day, and
his first guest was Bob Kerrey, the former Senator and now member of
the 9/11 commission. A caller phoned in to ask Kerrey about the rumors
that some administration people had stopped taking commercial flights
in the weeks prior to 9/11. The caller specifically mentioned Ashcroft
(while one conspiracy nut on this group recently mentioned Rumsfeld).
Kerrey said the Commission has looked into those rumors, and there is
absolutely NO evidence to back up those claims. NONE. And then Al
Franken said he does NOT believe the administration knew in advance.
He does think they were "asleep at the wheel" (in his words). That may
be ... since the whole nation was asleep at the wheel, including the
Gore Presidential campaign.
Since it was such a high priority for the previous administartion, I
wish Al Gore had made it a high priority in his campaign. It would
have forced Bush to do the same. But, our leaders, from both
administrations, were asleep at the wheel. Thank you Al Franken, for
being a voice of reason. And thank you to R. Foreman for doing the
same in this thread.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans |
03 Apr 2004 06:11:29 AM |
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In article <a2b35e99.0404021842.6bd481cf@posting.google.com>, (Steven Douglas) wrote:
" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote in message
news:<HMOdnbtqvYziSfHdRVn-ig@locallink.net>...
'I saw papers that show US knew al-Qa'ida would attack cities with
aeroplanes'
Whistleblower the White House wants to silence speaks to The Independent
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
02 April 2004
A former translator for the FBI with top-secret security clearance says
she has provided information to the panel investigating the 11
September attacks which proves senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans
to attack the US with aircraft months before the strikes happened.
This is old news. So old in fact, it happened in August 1998.
President Clinton was the occupant of the Oval Office in 1998.
Um .... no, the individual in question testified about information that was
coming in during the summer of 2001, several years later than whatever you're
talking about.
Woods
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans |
01 Apr 2004 09:17:22 PM |
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In article <HMOdnbtqvYziSfHdRVn-ig@locallink.net>, " John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote:
'I saw papers that show US knew al-Qa'ida would attack cities with
aeroplanes'
Whistleblower the White House wants to silence speaks to The Independent
By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
02 April 2004
A former translator for the FBI with top-secret security clearance says she
has provided information to the panel investigating the 11 September attacks
which proves senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans to attack the US
with aircraft months before the strikes happened.
She said the claim by the National Security Adviser, Condoleezza Rice, that
there was no such information was "an outrageous lie".
Sibel Edmonds said she spent more than three hours in a closed session with
the commission's investigators providing information that was circulating
within the FBI in the spring and summer of 2001 suggesting that an attack
using aircraft was just months away and the terrorists were in place. The
Bush administration, meanwhile, has sought to silence her and has obtained a
gagging order from a court by citing the rarely used "state secrets
privilege".
For the rest of the story..............
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=507514
Is the Independent a remotely respectable media source? This is written like a
tabloid, and it's illogical for the 9/11 Commission to question a source behind
closed doors while said source is blabbing away to the media.
Woods
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans |
01 Apr 2004 09:44:11 PM |
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"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:6X4bc.3457$LW2.3034@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=507514
Is the Independent a remotely respectable media source? This is written
like a
tabloid, and it's illogical for the 9/11 Commission to question a source
behind
closed doors while said source is blabbing away to the media.
Woods
Are you old enough to remember Watergate, Woods? That whole early 70's
media scene just flashed before my eyes for some reason. Obscure reports
and obscure reporters opening little cracks in the *****. One little wedge
here, one little wedge there..............
I would never assume anything, pro or con, in this situation. I wouldn't
automatically vouch for every article written in the NY Times anymore
either. I'd just spread the discussion as widely as possible.
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans |
01 Apr 2004 10:06:46 PM |
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" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote in message
news:veqdnZaZ9_oBf_HdRVn-hA@locallink.net...
Are you old enough to remember Watergate, Woods? That whole early 70's
media scene just flashed before my eyes for some reason. Obscure reports
and obscure reporters opening little cracks in the *****. One little wedge
here, one little wedge there..............
.................. Administration officials claiming executive privilege,
former whistleblowing Administration officials having their character
impugned by current government officials, a President reluctant to offer
testimony................
:-)
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans |
02 Apr 2004 07:06:13 PM |
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In article <veqdnZaZ9_oBf_HdRVn-hA@locallink.net>, " John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:6X4bc.3457$LW2.3034@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=507514
Is the Independent a remotely respectable media source? This is written
like a
tabloid, and it's illogical for the 9/11 Commission to question a source
behind
closed doors while said source is blabbing away to the media.
Woods
Are you old enough to remember Watergate, Woods? That whole early 70's
media scene just flashed before my eyes for some reason. Obscure reports
and obscure reporters opening little cracks in the *****. One little wedge
here, one little wedge there..............
I would never assume anything, pro or con, in this situation. I wouldn't
automatically vouch for every article written in the NY Times anymore
either. I'd just spread the discussion as widely as possible.
I'm just wondering what kind of paper the Independent is, as it's a UK paper and
I'm not sure what type of paper it is. Is it more like the Enquirer or
Washington Post .... I don't know, and that's what I'm asking.
Woods
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans |
02 Apr 2004 07:35:12 PM |
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"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:96obc.8915$LW2.7419@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
In article <veqdnZaZ9_oBf_HdRVn-hA@locallink.net>, "
I'm just wondering what kind of paper the Independent is, as it's a UK
paper and
I'm not sure what type of paper it is. Is it more like the Enquirer or
Washington Post .... I don't know, and that's what I'm asking.
Woods
I haven't really looked at it in "depth". I don't know if I'm qualified to
do that, judge it for journalistic integrity. From what I've seen in the
past it's well above the level of the National Enquirer. After your post
last nite I checked it out more closely but didn't spend a lot of time
there, twas late.
Robin Cook is one of their regular columnists. He resigned as Britain's
Foreign Secretary over Tony Blair's push to invade Iraq. Is/was the leader
of the House of Commons.
Robert Fisk is another of their columnists. He's won the Pulitzer and has
meet with and interviewed Osama in Afghanistan a number of times.
Supposedly Britain's most highly decorated foreign correspondent.
Here's their homepage if you're interested doing some general European news
browsing sometime. :-)
http://news.independent.co.uk/
I used to read the Sunday Times of London every week. Stopped doing that
when they started charging for access.
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| User: "Never anonymous Bud" |
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| Title: Re: senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans |
01 Apr 2004 11:16:50 PM |
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While still snuggled in a 'spider hole', (Woodswun)
scribbled:
Is the Independent a remotely respectable media source? This is written like a
tabloid, and it's illogical for the 9/11 Commission to question a source behind
closed doors while said source is blabbing away to the media.
So you think they DON'T really want to roast Rice on a spit??
To reply by email, remove the XYZ.
Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.
This sig censored by the Office of Home and Land Insecurity....
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: senior officials knew of al-Qa'ida's plans |
02 Apr 2004 07:04:46 PM |
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In article <2ptp605fsvi95vpnjimpjckhntd9ul8gn3@4ax.com>, Never anonymous Bud <newskat@katxyzkave.net> wrote:
While still snuggled in a 'spider hole', (Woodswun)
scribbled:
Is the Independent a remotely respectable media source? This is written like
a
tabloid, and it's illogical for the 9/11 Commission to question a source
behind
closed doors while said source is blabbing away to the media.
So you think they DON'T really want to roast Rice on a spit??
I have no idea what they want, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to hold
her testimony behind closed doors when she's been blabbing to the media at every
opportunity while not under oath.
Woods
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