Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record



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Topic: Science > Prophecies-Of-Nostradamus
User: ""
Date: 27 Jan 2005 07:34:47 AM
Object: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record
As I have have said in the distant past in this group, the more
Archeologists find, the more they will confirm the truth of the Bible.
These are tough times for Liberal nonbelievers.
Tony
Archeologist unearths biblical controversy
Iranian Cultural Heritage News Agency
Canadian archeologist Russell Adams's interest is in Bronze Age and
Iron Age copper production. He never intended to walk into
archeology's vicious debate over the historical accuracy of the Old
Testament -- a conflict likened by one historian to a pack of feral
canines at each other's throats.
Yet by coincidence, Prof. Adams of Hamilton's McMaster University
says, he and an international team of colleagues fit into place a
significant piece of the puzzle of human history in the Middle East --
unearthing information that points to the existence of the Bible's
vilified Kingdom of Edom at precisely the time the Bible says it
existed, and contradicting widespread academic belief that it did not
come into being until 200 years later.
Their findings mean that those scholars convinced that the Hebrew Old
Testament is at best a compendium of revisionist, fragmented history,
mixed with folklore and theology, and at worst a piece of outright
propaganda, likely will have to apply the brakes to their thinking.
Because, if the little bit of the Old Testament's narrative that Prof.
Adams and his colleagues have looked at is true, other bits could be
true as well.
References to the Kingdom of Edom -- almost none of them complimentary
-- are woven through the Old Testament. It existed in what is today
southern Jordan, next door to Israel, and the relationship between the
biblical Edomites and Israelites was one of unrelenting hostility and
warfare.
The team led by Prof. Adams, Thomas Levy of the University of
California at San Diego and Mohammad Najjar of the Jordanian
Department of Antiquities was investigating copper mining and smelting
at a site called Khirbat en-Nahas, by far the largest
copper-production site in the region.
They applied high-precision radiocarbon-dating methods to some of
their finds, and as they say in the British journal Antiquities, "The
results were spectacular."
They firmly established that occupation of the site began in the 11th
century BC and a monumental fortress was built in the 10th century BC,
supporting the argument for existence of an Edomite state at least 200
years earlier than had been assumed.
What is particularly exciting about their find is that it implies the
existence of an Edomite state at the time the Bible says King David
and his son Solomon ruled over a powerful united kingdom of Israel and
Judah.
It is the historical accuracy -- the very existence of this united
kingdom and the might and splendour of David and Solomon, as well as
the existence of surrounding kingdoms -- that lies at the heart of the
archeological dispute.
Those scholars known as minimalists argue that what is known as "state
formation" -- the emergence of regional governments and kings -- did
not take place in the area until the imperialistic expansion of the
Assyrian empire in the 8th century BC, so David and Solomon, rather
than being mighty monarchs, were mere petty chieftains.
And because everything that takes place in the Middle East inevitably
is political, the minimalist argument is seen as weakening modern
Israel's claim to Palestine.
In the biblical narrative, the Edomites are the descendents of Esau,
whose blessing from his father, Isaac, was stolen by his younger
brother, Jacob, ancestor of the Israelites. (Fans of the British
satirical-comedy group Beyond the Fringe will recall how Jacob pulled
off the theft by presenting himself as the hirsute Esau to their blind
father, saying in an aside: "My brother Esau is an hairy man, but I am
a smooth man.")
The Edomites are lambasted in the Bible for refusing to let the
Israelites rest on their land as they flee Egypt. God declares
obscurely: "Over Edom will I cast out my shoe." The Israelites grumble
enviously that there were kings of Edom before there were kings of
Israel -- a highly significant passage because it implies that state
formation occurred in Edom before it happened in Israel.
Finally, there is the biblical account of David's war against the
Edomites, in which David and his general, Joab, kill 18,000 Edomites
and establish military control over them by "putting garrisons
throughout all Edom."
Irish scholar John Bartlett, one of the world's great experts on the
Edomites, dates the battle at 990 to 980 BC, precisely when Prof.
Adams and his colleagues date the fortress.
Says Prof. Adams: "This battle between the Israelites and the
Edomites, although not possible to document, is typical of the sort of
border conflicts between Iron Age states. And the evidence of our new
dates at least proves that it may, in fact, be possible to place the
Edomites in the 10th century [BC] or earlier, which now supports the
chronology of the biblical accounts.
"It is intriguing that at Khirbat en-Nahas, our large Iron Age fort is
dated to just this period, suggesting conflict as a central concern
even at a remote copper-production site."
He concludes: "We're not out to prove the Bible right or wrong. We're
not trying to be controversial. We're just trying to be good
anthropologists and scientists, and tell the story of our
archeological site."
Source : The Globe and Mail
.

User: "tw"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 07:38:37 AM
<itwill@happen.com> wrote in message
news:1106832866.290c16dc3167dee4c5dcd8ec8b79561a@teranews...

As I have have said in the distant past in this group, the more
Archeologists find, the more they will confirm the truth of the Bible.

It will confirm some things no doubt, but not a thousandth as much as it
will dissaprove, you silly superstitious fool.


These are tough times for Liberal nonbelievers.
Tony

Archeologist unearths biblical controversy

Iranian Cultural Heritage News Agency


Canadian archeologist Russell Adams's interest is in Bronze Age and
Iron Age copper production. He never intended to walk into
archeology's vicious debate over the historical accuracy of the Old
Testament -- a conflict likened by one historian to a pack of feral
canines at each other's throats.

Yet by coincidence, Prof. Adams of Hamilton's McMaster University
says, he and an international team of colleagues fit into place a
significant piece of the puzzle of human history in the Middle East --
unearthing information that points to the existence of the Bible's
vilified Kingdom of Edom at precisely the time

Errmm.. how do we get a "precise" date from the Old Testament?

the Bible says it
existed, and contradicting widespread academic belief that it did not
come into being until 200 years later.

Their findings mean that those scholars convinced that the Hebrew Old
Testament is at best a compendium of revisionist, fragmented history,
mixed with folklore and theology, and at worst a piece of outright
propaganda, likely will have to apply the brakes to their thinking.

Because, if the little bit of the Old Testament's narrative that Prof.
Adams and his colleagues have looked at is true, other bits could be
true as well.

LOL! Only a religious nutcase could perform such an illogical leap.


References to the Kingdom of Edom -- almost none of them complimentary
-- are woven through the Old Testament. It existed in what is today
southern Jordan, next door to Israel, and the relationship between the
biblical Edomites and Israelites was one of unrelenting hostility and
warfare.

The team led by Prof. Adams, Thomas Levy of the University of
California at San Diego and Mohammad Najjar of the Jordanian
Department of Antiquities was investigating copper mining and smelting
at a site called Khirbat en-Nahas, by far the largest
copper-production site in the region.

They applied high-precision radiocarbon-dating methods to some of
their finds, and as they say in the British journal Antiquities, "The
results were spectacular."

They firmly established that occupation of the site began in the 11th
century BC and a monumental fortress was built in the 10th century BC,
supporting the argument for existence of an Edomite state at least 200
years earlier than had been assumed.

What is particularly exciting about their find is that it implies the
existence of an Edomite state at the time the Bible says King David
and his son Solomon ruled over a powerful united kingdom of Israel and
Judah.

It is the historical accuracy -- the very existence of this united
kingdom and the might and splendour of David and Solomon, as well as
the existence of surrounding kingdoms -- that lies at the heart of the
archeological dispute.

Those scholars known as minimalists argue that what is known as "state
formation" -- the emergence of regional governments and kings -- did
not take place in the area until the imperialistic expansion of the
Assyrian empire in the 8th century BC, so David and Solomon, rather
than being mighty monarchs, were mere petty chieftains.

And because everything that takes place in the Middle East inevitably
is political, the minimalist argument is seen as weakening modern
Israel's claim to Palestine.

In the biblical narrative, the Edomites are the descendents of Esau,
whose blessing from his father, Isaac, was stolen by his younger
brother, Jacob, ancestor of the Israelites. (Fans of the British
satirical-comedy group Beyond the Fringe will recall how Jacob pulled
off the theft by presenting himself as the hirsute Esau to their blind
father, saying in an aside: "My brother Esau is an hairy man, but I am
a smooth man.")

The Edomites are lambasted in the Bible for refusing to let the
Israelites rest on their land as they flee Egypt. God declares
obscurely: "Over Edom will I cast out my shoe." The Israelites grumble
enviously that there were kings of Edom before there were kings of
Israel -- a highly significant passage because it implies that state
formation occurred in Edom before it happened in Israel.

Finally, there is the biblical account of David's war against the
Edomites, in which David and his general, Joab, kill 18,000 Edomites
and establish military control over them by "putting garrisons
throughout all Edom."

Irish scholar John Bartlett, one of the world's great experts on the
Edomites, dates the battle at 990 to 980 BC, precisely when Prof.
Adams and his colleagues date the fortress.

Says Prof. Adams: "This battle between the Israelites and the
Edomites, although not possible to document, is typical of the sort of
border conflicts between Iron Age states. And the evidence of our new
dates at least proves that it may, in fact, be possible to place the
Edomites in the 10th century [BC] or earlier, which now supports the
chronology of the biblical accounts.

"It is intriguing that at Khirbat en-Nahas, our large Iron Age fort is
dated to just this period, suggesting conflict as a central concern
even at a remote copper-production site."

He concludes: "We're not out to prove the Bible right or wrong. We're
not trying to be controversial. We're just trying to be good
anthropologists and scientists, and tell the story of our
archeological site."


Source : The Globe and Mail


.
User: ""

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 01:27:43 PM
*HIS* Elect Wrote:
*SINCE* "HIS" *ELECT* "IS" *IN* "THE" *NOW* "I" *WOULD* "START"
*LOOKING* "AT" *TODAY'S* "DATE" *AND* "THEN" *WE* "CAN" *ALL* "START"
*KEEPING* "TRACK" *OF* "THE" *EVENTS* "THAT" *FOLLOW*!!!
*HIS* "ELECT" *SERVES* "LORD" *GOD* "ALMIGHTY" *AND* "HIS"
*CHILDREN*!!!
Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul
delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth
judgment to the Gentiles.
*THAT* "MEANS" *PEOPLE* "IF" *YOU* "ARE" *NOT* "JEWISH" *THEN* "YOU"
*ARE* "A" *GENTILE* "AND" *THAT* "PLACES" *YOU* "UNDER" *MY*
"LEADERSHIP" *AND* "WHAT" *A* "DEFILED" *BUNCH* "YOU" *ARE*!!! *SOME*
"WILL" *BE* "DEPARTING" *LIFE* "AS" *YOU* "KNOW" *IT*!!!
*THE* "LAWS" *OF* "GOD" *ARE* "UPHELD" *EVEN* "FOR" *THE* "GENTILES"!!!
.


User: "Woodswun"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 07:44:48 AM
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:34:47 -0500, itwill wrote:

As I have have said in the distant past in this group, the more
Archeologists find, the more they will confirm the truth of the Bible.

These are tough times for Liberal nonbelievers.
Tony

Changed your handle, I see.
In any case, nobody has made the claim that the events of the Bible
definitely did not occur. There is a huge difference between pointing out
that there is no evidence and claiming things never happened. The only
thing that I'm aware of that nobody believes happened as written was the
world, complete with vegetation and animal life, being created in 6
literal days, as in 144 hours.
Woods
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 29 Jan 2005 11:05:57 AM

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:34:47 -0500, itwill wrote:

As I have have said in the distant past in this group, the more
Archeologists find, the more they will confirm the truth of the Bible.

These are tough times for Liberal nonbelievers.
Tony


Changed your handle, I see.

In any case, nobody has made the claim that the events of the Bible
definitely did not occur. There is a huge difference between pointing out
that there is no evidence and claiming things never happened. The only
thing that I'm aware of that nobody believes happened as written was the
world, complete with vegetation and animal life, being created in 6
literal days, as in 144 hours.

Woods

Once again you're wrong.
Liberals contest most things in the Bible, (just observe your friends
in this group) yet many atheistic Archeologists are finding more proof
of the authenticity of Biblical claims all the time.
Toony
.
User: "Krib"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 29 Jan 2005 11:37:00 AM
<itwill@happen.com> wrote in message
news:1107018337.ba50fe9ed6eccd49280b1a87270cf57d@teranews...

Liberals contest most things in the Bible, (just observe your friends
in this group)

Who then and what do they contest?

yet many atheistic Archeologists are finding more proof
of the authenticity of Biblical claims all the time.

Same question or is this more waffle from you
Lastly, do you believe everything in the bible or is some of it
up for doubt?

Toony

Definitely ;0)
--
krib
.

User: "Dani"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 30 Jan 2005 01:34:00 PM
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:05:57 -0500,
wrote:

Toony

lol! How apt.
Dani
.

User: "Woodswun"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 30 Jan 2005 07:42:41 AM
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:05:57 -0500, itwill wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:34:47 -0500, itwill wrote:

As I have have said in the distant past in this group, the more
Archeologists find, the more they will confirm the truth of the Bible.

These are tough times for Liberal nonbelievers.
Tony


Changed your handle, I see.

In any case, nobody has made the claim that the events of the Bible
definitely did not occur. There is a huge difference between pointing out
that there is no evidence and claiming things never happened. The only
thing that I'm aware of that nobody believes happened as written was the
world, complete with vegetation and animal life, being created in 6
literal days, as in 144 hours.

Woods


Once again you're wrong.

Fine, post the articles that state that things in the Bible never happened
at all.


Liberals contest most things in the Bible, (just observe your friends in
this group) yet many atheistic Archeologists are finding more proof of
the authenticity of Biblical claims all the time.

Educated people doubt anything that can't be proven. If you just accepted
everything that was claimed, we'd still be killing cats and condemning
those "unfaithful" who weren't so sure the Earth is flat.

Toony

How apropos.
Woods
.


User: "Absolute Zero"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 07:54:12 AM
Woodswun wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:34:47 -0500, itwill wrote:


As I have have said in the distant past in this group, the more
Archeologists find, the more they will confirm the truth of the Bible.

These are tough times for Liberal nonbelievers.
Tony



Changed your handle, I see.

In any case, nobody has made the claim that the events of the Bible
definitely did not occur. There is a huge difference between pointing out
that there is no evidence and claiming things never happened. The only
thing that I'm aware of that nobody believes happened as written was the
world, complete with vegetation and animal life, being created in 6
literal days, as in 144 hours.

You can add the flood (as described) and a number of other reported events.
-A


Woods


.
User: "Woodswun"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 08:35:09 AM
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 13:54:12 +0000, Absolute Zero wrote:

Woodswun wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:34:47 -0500, itwill wrote:


As I have have said in the distant past in this group, the more
Archeologists find, the more they will confirm the truth of the Bible.

These are tough times for Liberal nonbelievers.
Tony



Changed your handle, I see.

In any case, nobody has made the claim that the events of the Bible
definitely did not occur. There is a huge difference between pointing out
that there is no evidence and claiming things never happened. The only
thing that I'm aware of that nobody believes happened as written was the
world, complete with vegetation and animal life, being created in 6
literal days, as in 144 hours.


You can add the flood (as described) and a number of other reported events.

Well, I wouldn't go quite that far. "As described" only takes into
account the viewpoint of Noah and his family at the time, it does not
address what may have been going on elsewhere. From Noah's perspective,
there was no land that was not flooded.
Woods
.
User: "Absolute Zero"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 09:30:34 AM
Woodswun wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 13:54:12 +0000, Absolute Zero wrote:


Woodswun wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:34:47 -0500, itwill wrote:



As I have have said in the distant past in this group, the more
Archeologists find, the more they will confirm the truth of the Bible.

These are tough times for Liberal nonbelievers.
Tony



Changed your handle, I see.

In any case, nobody has made the claim that the events of the Bible
definitely did not occur. There is a huge difference between pointing out
that there is no evidence and claiming things never happened. The only
thing that I'm aware of that nobody believes happened as written was the
world, complete with vegetation and animal life, being created in 6
literal days, as in 144 hours.


You can add the flood (as described) and a number of other reported events.


Well, I wouldn't go quite that far. "As described" only takes into
account the viewpoint of Noah and his family at the time, it does not
address what may have been going on elsewhere. From Noah's perspective,
there was no land that was not flooded.

“For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty
days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will
I destroy from off the face of the earth” (Genesis 7:4). Moses tells us,
“All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the
dry land, died” (Genesis 7:22). The extent of the flood was such that
“the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high
hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits
upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered” (Genesis
7:19-20). According to Genesis 8:4, the ark came to rest on the
mountains of Ararat, mountains of 17,000 foot elevation. According to
Genesis 7:24, the waters “prevailed upon the earth,” or were at their
maximum level, for 150 days, which would hardly be possible for a local
flood "as described".
-A


Woods

.
User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 01:40:40 PM
Absolute Zero wrote:

Woodswun wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 13:54:12 +0000, Absolute Zero wrote:


Woodswun wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 08:34:47 -0500, itwill wrote:



As I have have said in the distant past in this group, the more
Archeologists find, the more they will confirm the truth of the

Bible.


These are tough times for Liberal nonbelievers.
Tony



Changed your handle, I see.

In any case, nobody has made the claim that the events of the

Bible

definitely did not occur. There is a huge difference between

pointing out

that there is no evidence and claiming things never happened. The

only

thing that I'm aware of that nobody believes happened as written

was the

world, complete with vegetation and animal life, being created in

6

literal days, as in 144 hours.


You can add the flood (as described) and a number of other reported

events.


Well, I wouldn't go quite that far. "As described" only takes into
account the viewpoint of Noah and his family at the time, it does

not

address what may have been going on elsewhere. From Noah's

perspective,

there was no land that was not flooded.


"For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth

forty

days and forty nights;

"Over Edom will I cast out my shoe." The Israelites grumble
enviously that there were kings of Edom before there were kings of
Israel -- a highly significant passage because it implies that state
formation occurred in Edom before it happened in Israel.

Fascinating. Kingship migration is a great topic of mine.
Here we know that Kingship moves from the Edomites to the Israelites
which is akin to movement from eastern civil to the later western
civil.
One must keep in mind that ethics came from the Minor biblical prophets
and helped shaped western civil.
.

User: ""

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 03:04:13 PM
Some feel that the tale of Noah was actually the events that occured
during the breakup of Atlantis.
.
User: "Absolute Zero"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 04:16:27 PM
wrote:

Some feel that the tale of Noah was actually the events that occured
during the breakup of Atlantis.

As does your correspondent. I see all sorts of congruence between
Genesis and Solon's tale. The legend of Atlantis came out of Egypt... as
did the Israelites.
-A
.
User: "Absolute Zero"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 04:27:09 PM
Absolute Zero wrote:

naming_el@hotmail.com wrote:

Some feel that the tale of Noah was actually the events that occured
during the breakup of Atlantis.



As does your correspondent. I see all sorts of congruence between
Genesis and Solon's tale. The legend of Atlantis came out of Egypt... as
did the Israelites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses
"If Moses is accepted as a historical figure, various aspects of the
Biblical tale can be re-interpreted. It is quite likely, for example,
that Moses was an Egyptian nobleman or prince influenced by the religion
of Aten (see below), since Moses is an Egyptian name meaning "son" and
was often used in pharaohs' names."
Which was a proposition I put forward recently
(Moses/Aten/Monotheism)... seems I'm not the first.
-A


-A

.
User: ""

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 04:32:06 PM
Absolute Zero wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

naming_el@hotmail.com wrote:

Some feel that the tale of Noah was actually the events that

occured

during the breakup of Atlantis.



As does your correspondent. I see all sorts of congruence between
Genesis and Solon's tale. The legend of Atlantis came out of

Egypt... as

did the Israelites.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses

"If Moses is accepted as a historical figure, various aspects of the
Biblical tale can be re-interpreted. It is quite likely, for example,
that Moses was an Egyptian nobleman or prince influenced by the

religion

of Aten (see below), since Moses is an Egyptian name meaning "son"

and

was often used in pharaohs' names."

Which was a proposition I put forward recently
(Moses/Aten/Monotheism)... seems I'm not the first.

-A


-A

Yes. Could be that Moses was Aten.
.
User: "Absolute Zero"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 04:52:59 PM
wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

wrote:


Some feel that the tale of Noah was actually the events that


occured

during the breakup of Atlantis.



As does your correspondent. I see all sorts of congruence between
Genesis and Solon's tale. The legend of Atlantis came out of


Egypt... as

did the Israelites.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses

"If Moses is accepted as a historical figure, various aspects of the
Biblical tale can be re-interpreted. It is quite likely, for example,



that Moses was an Egyptian nobleman or prince influenced by the


religion

of Aten (see below), since Moses is an Egyptian name meaning "son"
and was often used in pharaohs' names."

Which was a proposition I put forward recently
(Moses/Aten/Monotheism)... seems I'm not the first.


Yes. Could be that Moses was Aten.

I don't know that I'd go so far as to suggest Akhenaton was Moses...
could be but it isn't vital. Recall that Moses allegedly squabbled with
the Pharoah (presumably Ramesses II). So I'd go with wiki here that
Moses was (if historic) probably a Prince who adopted the ruins of
Akhenaton's ideas on monotheism and legged it with the tribe.
The thing that struck me initially was that Akhenaton created the first
known monotheism... and then just a few years later (by the current
conventions of dating) we have Moses creating another! Both in roughly
the same place at the same time... waaaaaaaaaaay too much of a
coincidence. Even if they're not the same person, there has to have been
some connection or other.
-A
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 05:25:07 PM
I did find this:
"Egyptian historian and High Priest, Manetho (c. 300 B.C.), states that
Moses had received much of his education in the Brotherhood under
Akhenaton, the very pharaoh who pioneered monotheism." [Bramley, 1989]
I would guess this came from the "Gods of Eden", but the quote did not
say.
.
User: "Absolute Zero"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 05:48:16 PM
wrote:

I did find this:

"Egyptian historian and High Priest, Manetho (c. 300 B.C.), states that
Moses had received much of his education in the Brotherhood under
Akhenaton, the very pharaoh who pioneered monotheism." [Bramley, 1989]

I would guess this came from the "Gods of Eden", but the quote did not
say.

Excellent!!! Genesis and Exodus sorted in one evening.
Cheers!
-A
.


User: "Woodswun"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 05:50:16 PM
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:52:59 +0000, Absolute Zero wrote:

naming_el@hotmail.com wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

naming_el@hotmail.com wrote:


Some feel that the tale of Noah was actually the events that


occured

during the breakup of Atlantis.



As does your correspondent. I see all sorts of congruence between
Genesis and Solon's tale. The legend of Atlantis came out of


Egypt... as

did the Israelites.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses

"If Moses is accepted as a historical figure, various aspects of the
Biblical tale can be re-interpreted. It is quite likely, for example,



that Moses was an Egyptian nobleman or prince influenced by the


religion

of Aten (see below), since Moses is an Egyptian name meaning "son"
and was often used in pharaohs' names."

Which was a proposition I put forward recently
(Moses/Aten/Monotheism)... seems I'm not the first.


Yes. Could be that Moses was Aten.


I don't know that I'd go so far as to suggest Akhenaton was Moses...
could be but it isn't vital. Recall that Moses allegedly squabbled with
the Pharoah (presumably Ramesses II). So I'd go with wiki here that
Moses was (if historic) probably a Prince who adopted the ruins of
Akhenaton's ideas on monotheism and legged it with the tribe.

That sounds quite reasonable. I wouldn't get stuck much on names, since
Moses' father-in-law experienced a name change without explanation, hence
it was very likely a story handed down for generations, with local
variants, long before it was ever put down in writing.


The thing that struck me initially was that Akhenaton created the first
known monotheism... and then just a few years later (by the current
conventions of dating) we have Moses creating another! Both in roughly
the same place at the same time... waaaaaaaaaaay too much of a
coincidence. Even if they're not the same person, there has to have been
some connection or other.

Likely, they were not slaves to Egyptians either, but rather slaves to
materiality in Egypt. It doesn't make sense that those slaves would have
had enough gold jewelry amongst them to make a calf statue to worship.
(OTOH, they very likely had lots of lead, thus explaining their following
around a pillar of smoke/fire and then destroying perfectly good jewelry
so they could "worship" something they made from it).
Woods
.
User: "Absolute Zero"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 06:43:40 PM
Woodswun wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:52:59 +0000, Absolute Zero wrote:


naming_el@hotmail.com wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:


Absolute Zero wrote:


naming_el@hotmail.com wrote:



Some feel that the tale of Noah was actually the events that


occured


during the breakup of Atlantis.



As does your correspondent. I see all sorts of congruence between
Genesis and Solon's tale. The legend of Atlantis came out of


Egypt... as


did the Israelites.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses

"If Moses is accepted as a historical figure, various aspects of the
Biblical tale can be re-interpreted. It is quite likely, for example,



that Moses was an Egyptian nobleman or prince influenced by the


religion


of Aten (see below), since Moses is an Egyptian name meaning "son"
and was often used in pharaohs' names."

Which was a proposition I put forward recently
(Moses/Aten/Monotheism)... seems I'm not the first.


Yes. Could be that Moses was Aten.


I don't know that I'd go so far as to suggest Akhenaton was Moses...
could be but it isn't vital. Recall that Moses allegedly squabbled with
the Pharoah (presumably Ramesses II). So I'd go with wiki here that
Moses was (if historic) probably a Prince who adopted the ruins of
Akhenaton's ideas on monotheism and legged it with the tribe.



That sounds quite reasonable. I wouldn't get stuck much on names, since
Moses' father-in-law experienced a name change without explanation, hence
it was very likely a story handed down for generations, with local
variants, long before it was ever put down in writing.



The thing that struck me initially was that Akhenaton created the first
known monotheism... and then just a few years later (by the current
conventions of dating) we have Moses creating another! Both in roughly
the same place at the same time... waaaaaaaaaaay too much of a
coincidence. Even if they're not the same person, there has to have been
some connection or other.



Likely, they were not slaves to Egyptians either, but rather slaves to
materiality in Egypt. It doesn't make sense that those slaves would have
had enough gold jewelry amongst them to make a calf statue to worship.
(OTOH, they very likely had lots of lead, thus explaining their following
around a pillar of smoke/fire and then destroying perfectly good jewelry
so they could "worship" something they made from it).

They clearly were quite a rabble... so my point to our literalist thread
originator would be that if, as seems likely, Moses was of Egyptian
derivation and the tribe an adopted flock, then the Abrahamic path is
pretty irrelevant apart from the legendary baggage they brought. That
the true patriarchs of Judaism (and thus Christianity/Islam) are
Egyptian (Akhenaton/Moses) rather than Mesopotamian.
-A


Woods

.
User: ""

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 29 Jan 2005 11:09:51 AM

They clearly were quite a rabble... so my point to our literalist thread
originator would be that if, as seems likely, Moses was of Egyptian
derivation and the tribe an adopted flock, then the Abrahamic path is
pretty irrelevant apart from the legendary baggage they brought. That
the true patriarchs of Judaism (and thus Christianity/Islam) are
Egyptian (Akhenaton/Moses) rather than Mesopotamian.

-A

Once again a Liberal saying that thr Bible is all lies, it gets them
off to do so.
Tony
.
User: "Absolute Zero"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 29 Jan 2005 11:15:10 AM
wrote:

They clearly were quite a rabble... so my point to our literalist thread
originator would be that if, as seems likely, Moses was of Egyptian
derivation and the tribe an adopted flock, then the Abrahamic path is
pretty irrelevant apart from the legendary baggage they brought. That
the true patriarchs of Judaism (and thus Christianity/Islam) are
Egyptian (Akhenaton/Moses) rather than Mesopotamian.

-A



Once again a Liberal saying that thr Bible is all lies, it gets them
off to do so.

Do insects have four legs, Tone?
Do snails melt when they move?
-A
.


User: "R. Foreman"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 11:28:52 PM
Absolute Zero <amycaton@hotmail.com> Spat the Words

Woodswun wrote:

Likely, they were not slaves to Egyptians either, but rather slaves to
materiality in Egypt. It doesn't make sense that those slaves would have
had enough gold jewelry amongst them to make a calf statue to worship.
(OTOH, they very likely had lots of lead, thus explaining their following
around a pillar of smoke/fire and then destroying perfectly good jewelry
so they could "worship" something they made from it).


They clearly were quite a rabble... so my point to our literalist thread
originator would be that if, as seems likely, Moses was of Egyptian
derivation and the tribe an adopted flock, then the Abrahamic path is
pretty irrelevant apart from the legendary baggage they brought. That
the true patriarchs of Judaism (and thus Christianity/Islam) are
Egyptian (Akhenaton/Moses) rather than Mesopotamian.

Don't tell the (present day) Palestinians that. It might upset
their preconception that they're fighting their ancient enemy.


-A


Woods

.






User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 04:50:18 PM
Absolute Zero wrote:

naming_el@hotmail.com wrote:

Some feel that the tale of Noah was actually the events that

occured

during the breakup of Atlantis.

Flood:
Actually Sumer if one believes the Sumerian documents found in the last
200 years there.
see: Gilgamesh for older Flood versions than the Bible.
Chicago University has the original translations on file I believe.


The legend of Atlantis came out of Egypt..

Yep, and the Cinderella story and much of the great Arab tales ( 1000
& one Nights...etc...) originally came from Egyptian civilization (
albeit older versions - same premise) .
.
User: "Absolute Zero"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 04:55:45 PM
Michael Johnathan McDonald wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

naming_el@hotmail.com wrote:

Some feel that the tale of Noah was actually the events that


occured

during the breakup of Atlantis.



Flood:
Actually Sumer if one believes the Sumerian documents found in the last
200 years there.

see: Gilgamesh for older Flood versions than the Bible.

Doesn't really mean much, there are flood legends all over.
-A


Chicago University has the original translations on file I believe.


The legend of Atlantis came out of Egypt..



Yep, and the Cinderella story and much of the great Arab tales ( 1000
& one Nights...etc...) originally came from Egyptian civilization (
albeit older versions - same premise) .

.
User: ""

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 29 Jan 2005 11:11:35 AM


Doesn't really mean much, there are flood legends all over.

-A

Poor Amy doesn't realize that she just gave credence to a worldwide
flood.
Tony
.
User: "Absolute Zero"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 29 Jan 2005 11:16:01 AM
wrote:

Doesn't really mean much, there are flood legends all over.

-A



Poor Amy doesn't realize that she just gave credence to a worldwide
flood.

Poor Tony believes there was one.
-A
.


User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 04:57:43 PM
Absolute Zero wrote:

Michael Johnathan McDonald wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

naming_el@hotmail.com wrote:

Some feel that the tale of Noah was actually the events that


occured

during the breakup of Atlantis.



Flood:
Actually Sumer if one believes the Sumerian documents found in the

last

200 years there.

see: Gilgamesh for older Flood versions than the Bible.


Doesn't really mean much, there are flood legends all over.

I believe this is dated to be the first. I but I gather it was oral
much earlier anyway. Anyway Sumer was flooded periodically - why do you
think they built their temples so high off of terra?


-A


Chicago University has the original translations on file I believe.


The legend of Atlantis came out of Egypt..



Yep, and the Cinderella story and much of the great Arab tales (

1000

& one Nights...etc...) originally came from Egyptian civilization (
albeit older versions - same premise) .

.

User: "Woodswun"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 05:43:40 PM
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:55:45 +0000, Absolute Zero wrote:

Michael Johnathan McDonald wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:

naming_el@hotmail.com wrote:

Some feel that the tale of Noah was actually the events that


occured

during the breakup of Atlantis.



Flood:
Actually Sumer if one believes the Sumerian documents found in the last
200 years there.

see: Gilgamesh for older Flood versions than the Bible.


Doesn't really mean much, there are flood legends all over.

Well, there's your worldwide "proof" right there! ;-)
Woods
.
User: "Absolute Zero"

Title: Re: Surprise! Archeologist's find confirms Biblical record 27 Jan 2005 05:49:44 PM
Woodswun wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:55:45 +0000, Absolute Zero wrote:


Michael Johnathan McDonald wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:


naming_el@hotmail.com wrote:


Some feel that the tale of Noah was actually the events that


occured


during the breakup of Atlantis.



Flood:
Actually Sumer if one believes the Sumerian documents found in the last
200 years there.

see: Gilgamesh for older Flood versions than the Bible.


Doesn't really mean much, there are flood legends all over.



Well, there's your worldwide "proof" right there! ;-)

I forsaw that one coming... but it ain't logical ;)
-A


Woods

.











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