interesting little bit of info..............
"The very idea of a Christian homosexual marriage seems incredible.
Yet after a twelve year search of Catholic and Orthodox church
archives Yale history professor John Boswell has discovered that a
type of Christian homosexual "marriage" did exist as late as the 18th
century.
Contrary to myth, Christianity's concept of marriage has not been set
in stone since the days of Christ, but has evolved as a concept and as
a ritual.
Professor Boswell discovered that in addition to heterosexual marriage
ceremonies in ancient church liturgical documents (and clearly
separate from other types of non-marital blessings of adopted children
or land) were ceremonies called, among other titles, the "Office of
Same Sex Union" (10th and 11th century Greek) or the "Order for
Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).
These ceremonies had all the contemporary symbols of a marriage: a
community gathered in a church, a blessing of the couple before the
altar, their right hands joined as at heterosexual marriages, the
participation of a priest, the taking of the Eucharist, a wedding
banquet afterwards. All of which are shown in contemporary drawings of
the same sex union of Byzantine Emperor Basil I (867-886) and his
companion John. Such homosexual unions also took place in Ireland in
the late 12th / early 13th century, as the chronicler Gerald of Wales
(Geraldus Cambrensis) has recorded.
Unions in Pre-Modern Europe lists in detail some same sex union
ceremonies found in ancient church liturgical documents. One Greek
13th century "Order for Solemnisation of Same Sex Union", having
invoked St. Serge and St. Bacchus, called on God to "vouchsafe unto
these Thy servants [N and N] grace to love another and to abide
unhated and not cause of scandal all the days of their lives, with the
help of the Holy Mother of God and all Thy saints". The ceremony
concludes: "And they shall kiss the Holy Gospel and each other, and it
shall be concluded".
Another 14th century Serbian Slavonic "Office of the Same Sex Union",
uniting two men or two women, had the couple having their right hands
laid on the Gospel while having a cross placed in their left hands.
Having kissed the Gospel, the couple were then required to kiss each
other, after which the priest, having raised up the Eucharist, would
give them both communion.
Boswell found records of same sex unions in such diverse archives as
those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, Istanbul, and in
Sinai, covering a period from the 8th to 18th centuries. Nor is he the
first to make such a discovery. The Dominican Jacques Goar (1601-1653)
includes such ceremonies in a printed collection of Greek prayer
books."
http://www.libchrist.com/other/homosexual/gaymarriagerite.html
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: the church and same sex union |
14 Jul 2004 05:38:12 PM |
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In article <33b7880.0407140945.68057e54@posting.google.com>, (jha_amin) wrote:
interesting little bit of info..............
"The very idea of a Christian homosexual marriage seems incredible.
Yet after a twelve year search of Catholic and Orthodox church
archives Yale history professor John Boswell has discovered that a
type of Christian homosexual "marriage" did exist as late as the 18th
century.
It's irrelevent. Marriage is a contractual arrangement between 2 adults. If a
church wants to restrict who it will marry, they have every right to do that -
but it's up to the State to determine who is permitted to obtain a marriage
license and get married. If no members of the clergy will perform the marriage,
they can go to a judge.
I really don't see why churches are getting into such a tizzy about - nobody is
about to *force* them to marry anyone that doesn't meet their qualifications.
Woods
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| User: "Su Zanne" |
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| Title: Re: the church and same sex union |
14 Jul 2004 10:04:08 PM |
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woodswun wrote
jha_amin wrote:
interesting little bit of info..............
"The very idea of a Christian
homosexual marriage seems
incredible. Yet after a twelve year
search of Catholic and Orthodox
church archives Yale history professor
John Boswell has discovered that a
type of Christian homosexual
"marriage" did exist as late as the 18th
century.
It's irrelevent.
But interesting......yes?
Marriage is a contractual arrangement
between 2 adults. If a church wants to
restrict who it will marry, they have
every right to do that
They do that to hetero couples. You would have a hard time just walking
into a church off the street and asking them to marry you.
They would want you to join the church first and then attend classes and
counseling.
I don't know what gay couple would want to be married in a straight
church, do you?
That's why there are gay churches with gay clergy.
- but it's up to the State to determine
who is permitted to obtain a marriage
license and get married. If no members
of the clergy will perform the marriage,
they can go to a judge.
Any Notary Public can in Florida. Isn't it like that in the rest of the
states?
I really don't see why churches are
getting into such a tizzy about - nobody
is about to *force* them to marry anyone
that doesn't meet their qualifications.
I think they are in a tizzy because they are against gay marriage, not
because they think they might have to marry a gay couple.
"Hallmark Greetings Company" is ALL FOR IT! ;)
Woods
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| User: "R. Foreman" |
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| Title: Re: the church and same sex union |
15 Jul 2004 05:47:12 PM |
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(Su Zanne) Spat the Words
woodswun wrote
jha_amin wrote:
interesting little bit of info..............
"The very idea of a Christian
homosexual marriage seems
incredible. Yet after a twelve year
search of Catholic and Orthodox
church archives Yale history professor
John Boswell has discovered that a
type of Christian homosexual
"marriage" did exist as late as the 18th
century.
It's irrelevent.
But interesting......yes?
Marriage is a contractual arrangement
between 2 adults. If a church wants to
restrict who it will marry, they have
every right to do that
They do that to hetero couples. You would have a hard time just walking
into a church off the street and asking them to marry you.
They would want you to join the church first and then attend classes and
counseling.
I don't know what gay couple would want to be married in a straight
church, do you?
That's why there are gay churches with gay clergy.
- but it's up to the State to determine
who is permitted to obtain a marriage
license and get married. If no members
of the clergy will perform the marriage,
they can go to a judge.
Any Notary Public can in Florida. Isn't it like that in the rest of the
states?
I hear it's real easy in Nevada. They've got special churches
set up to marry anybody who walks in off the street (with the
appropriate $$fee).
Vacation in Nevada, have a one-night stand, get married on
the weekend, then never see your spouse again. It's crazy.
I really don't see why churches are
getting into such a tizzy about - nobody
is about to *force* them to marry anyone
that doesn't meet their qualifications.
I think they are in a tizzy because they are against gay marriage, not
because they think they might have to marry a gay couple.
"Hallmark Greetings Company" is ALL FOR IT! ;)
Woods
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: the church and same sex union |
15 Jul 2004 06:21:23 PM |
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In article <23371-40F5F428-40@storefull-3212.bay.webtv.net>, (Su Zanne) wrote:
woodswun wrote
jha_amin wrote:
interesting little bit of info..............
"The very idea of a Christian
homosexual marriage seems
incredible. Yet after a twelve year
search of Catholic and Orthodox
church archives Yale history professor
John Boswell has discovered that a
type of Christian homosexual
"marriage" did exist as late as the 18th
century.
It's irrelevent.
But interesting......yes?
Marriage is a contractual arrangement
between 2 adults. If a church wants to
restrict who it will marry, they have
every right to do that
They do that to hetero couples. You would have a hard time just walking
into a church off the street and asking them to marry you.
They would want you to join the church first and then attend classes and
counseling.
I don't know what gay couple would want to be married in a straight
church, do you?
That's why there are gay churches with gay clergy.
- but it's up to the State to determine
who is permitted to obtain a marriage
license and get married. If no members
of the clergy will perform the marriage,
they can go to a judge.
Any Notary Public can in Florida. Isn't it like that in the rest of the
states?
Not where I am, they can't. Maybe there are other states who allow them to,
though.
I really don't see why churches are
getting into such a tizzy about - nobody
is about to *force* them to marry anyone
that doesn't meet their qualifications.
I think they are in a tizzy because they are against gay marriage, not
because they think they might have to marry a gay couple.
Actually, I know what it's about - control. They want to control what other
people do. Churches don't "guide" people, they try to "control" them, and
that's why they aren't supposed to be able to influence the government.
"Hallmark Greetings Company" is ALL FOR IT! ;)
Are they really?
Woods
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