I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President Bush will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has stumbled in Iraq and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside those reveries. He's
going all the way—and taking us with him.
The Israeli bombing raid on Syria October 5 was an expansion of the
Bush policy, carried out by the Sharon government but with the
implicit approval of Washington. The government in Iran, said to be
seeking to develop a nuclear weapon, reportedly expects to be the next
target.
No one who believes in democracy need feel any empathy toward the
governments of Syria and Iran, for they assist the terrorist movement,
yet if the Bush White House is going to use its preeminent military
force to subdue and neutralize all "evildoers" and adversaries
everywhere in the world, the American public should be told now. Such
an undertaking would be virtually endless and would require the
sacrifice of enormous blood and treasure.
With no guarantee of success. And no precedent in history for such a
crusade having lasting effect.
People close to the president say that his conversion to evangelical
Methodism, after a life of aimless carousing, markedly informs his
policies, both foreign and domestic. In the soon-to-be-published The
Faith of George W. Bush (Tarcher/Penguin), a sympathetic account of
this religious journey, author Stephen Mansfield writes (in the
advance proofs) that in the election year 2000, Bush told Texas
preacher James Robison, one of his spiritual mentors: "I feel like God
wants me to run for president. I can't explain it, but I sense my
country is going to need me. . . . I know it won't be easy on me or my
family, but God wants me to do it."
Mansfield also reports: "Aides found him face down on the floor in
prayer in the Oval Office. It became known that he refused to eat
sweets while American troops were in Iraq, a partial fast seldom
reported of an American president. And he framed America's challenges
in nearly biblical language. Saddam Hussein is an evildoer. He has to
go." The author concludes: " . . . the Bush administration does deeply
reflect its leader, and this means that policy, even in military
matters, will be processed in terms of the personal, in terms of the
moral, and in terms of a sense of divine purpose that propels the
present to meet the challenges of its time."
Some who read this article may choose to view it as the partisan
perspective of a political liberal. But I have experienced wars—in
India and Indochina—and have measured their results. And most of the
men and women who are advocating the Bush Doctrine have not. You will
find few generals among them. They are, instead, academics and
think-tank people and born-again missionaries. One must not entertain
any illusion that they are only opportunists in search of power, for
most of them truly believe in their vision of a world crusade under
the serious, and they now have power at the top.
I believe that last week's blitz of aggressive speeches and spin by
the president and his chief counselors removed all doubt of his
intentions.
"As long as George W. Bush is president of the United States," Vice
President Cheney told the friendly Heritage Foundation, "this country
will not permit gathering threats to become certain tragedies." The
president himself must tell us now what this vow entails.
The public relations deluge by Bush, Cheney, Secretary of State Colin
Powell, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, and Defense
Secretary Donald Rumsfeld seemed to be aimed at denying any policy
fumbles and insisting that the liberal press was ignoring the positive
developments in Iraq.
Mr. Cheney, the president's usual attack dog, aimed his sharpest and
most sneering words at those who offer dissent about the
administration's foreign and economic policies. Perhaps seeking to
stifle such criticism, he raised the specter of terrorists acquiring
weapons of mass destruction that "could bring devastation to our
country on a scale we have never experienced. Instead of losing
thousands of lives, we might lose tens of thousands or even hundreds
of thousands of lives in a single day of horror." His implication was
that Saddam Hussein in particular had presented this threat—when
virtually all the available intelligence shows that Iraq's weapons
programs had been crippled or drastically diminished by UN inspections
and economic sanctions imposed after the first Gulf war in 1991.
But beyond all the distortions and exaggerations and falsehoods the
Bush people engaged in to rally public support for the Iraq war, what
I have never understood, from the 9-11 day of tragedy onward, is why
this White House has not called on the American people to be part of
the war effort, to make the sacrifices civilians have always made when
this country is at war.
There has been no call for rationing or conservation of critical
supplies, such as gasoline. There has been no call for obligatory
national service in community aid projects or emergency services. As
he sent 150,000 soldiers into battle and now asks them to remain in
harm's way longer than expected, the president never raised even the
possibility of reinstating the military draft, perhaps the most
democratizing influence in the nation's history. Instead, he has cut
taxes hugely, mostly for affluent Americans, saying this would put
money into circulation and create jobs. Since Bush began the tax
cutting two and a half years ago, 2.7 million jobs have disappeared.
All this I don't understand. If it's a crisis—and global terrorism
surely is—then why hasn't the president acted accordingly? What he did
do, when he sent out those first tax rebate checks, was to tell us to
go shopping. Buy clothes for the kids, tires for the car—this would
get the economy humming. How does that measure up as a thoughtful,
farsighted fiscal plan?
In effect, George Bush says, believe in me and I will lead you out of
darkness. But he doesn't tell us any details. And it's in the details
where the true costs are buried—human costs and the cost to our notion
of ourselves as helpers and sharers, not slayers. No one seems to be
asking themselves: If in the end the crusade is victorious, what is it
we will have won? The White House never asked that question in Vietnam
either.
For those who would dispute the assertion that the Bush Doctrine is a
global military-based policy and is not just about liberating the
Iraqi people, it's crucial to look back to the policy's origins and
examine its founding documents.
The Bush Doctrine did get its birth push from Iraq—specifically from
the outcome of the 1991 Gulf war, when the U.S.-led military coalition
forced Saddam Hussein's troops out of Kuwait but stopped short of
toppling the dictator and his oppressive government. The president
then was a different George Bush, the father of the current president.
The father ordered the military not to move on Baghdad, saying that
the UN resolution underpinning the allied coalition did not authorize
a regime change. ***** Cheney was the first George Bush's Pentagon
chief. He said nothing critical at the time, but apparently he came to
regret the failure to get rid of the Baghdad dictator.
A few years later, in June 1997, a group of neoconservatives formed an
entity called the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) and
issued a Statement of Principles. "The history of the 20th Century,"
the statement said, "should have taught us that it is important to
shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before
they become dire." One of its formal principles called for a major
increase in defense spending "to carry out our global responsibilities
today." Others cited the "need to strengthen our ties to democratic
allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values"
and underscored "America's unique role in preserving and extending an
international order friendly to our security, our prosperity and our
principles." This, the statement said, constituted "a Reaganite policy
of military strength and moral clarity."
Among the 25 signatories to the PNAC founding statement were *****
Cheney, I. Lewis Libby (Cheney's chief of staff), Donald Rumsfeld (who
was also defense secretary under President Ford), and Paul Wolfowitz
(Rumsfeld's No. 2 at the Pentagon, who was head of the Pentagon policy
team in the first Bush presidency, reporting to Cheney, who was then
defense secretary). Obviously, this fraternity has been marinating
together for a long time. Other signers whose names might ring
familiar were Elliot Abrams, Gary Bauer, William J. Bennett, Jeb Bush,
and Norman Podhoretz.
Three years and several aggressive position papers later—in September
2000, just two months before George W. Bush, the son, was elected
president—the PNAC put military flesh on its statement of principles
with a detailed 81-page report, "Rebuilding America's Defenses." The
report set several "core missions" for U.S. military forces, which
included maintaining nuclear superiority, expanding the armed forces
by 200,000 active-duty personnel, and "repositioning" those forces "to
respond to 21st century strategic realities."
The most startling mission is described as follows: "Fight and
decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars." The report
depicts these potential wars as "large scale" and "spread across [the]
globe."
Another escalation proposed for the military by the PNAC is to
"perform the 'constabulary' duties associated with shaping the
security environment in critical regions."
As for homeland security, the PNAC report says: "Develop and deploy
global missile defenses to defend the American homeland and American
allies, and to provide a secure basis for U.S. power projection around
the world. Control the new 'international commons' of space and
'cyberspace,' and pave the way for the creation of a new military
service—U.S. Space Forces—with the mission of space control."
Perhaps the eeriest sentence in the report is found on page 51: "The
process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing
event—like a new Pearl Harbor."
Apparently for the neoconservative civilians who are running the Iraq
campaign, 9-11 was that catalyzing event—for they are now operating at
full speed toward multiple, simultaneous wars. The PNAC documents can
be found online at newamericancentury.org.
In the end, the answers lie with this president—and later maybe with
Congress and the American voters. Is he so committed to this imperial
policy that he is unable to consider rethinking it? In short, is his
mind closed? And if so, how many wars will he take us into?
These are not questions in a college debate, where the answers have no
consequences. When a president's closest advisers and military
planners are patrons of a policy that speaks matter-of-factly of
fighting multiple, simultaneous, large-scale wars across the globe,
people have a right to be told about it.
In his new book, Winning Modern Wars, retired general Wesley Clark, a
candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, offered a window
into the Bush serial-war planning. He writes that serious planning for
the Iraq war had already begun only two months after the 9-11 attack,
and adds:
"As I went back through the Pentagon in November 2001, one of the
senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still
on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was
being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and
there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then
Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and Sudan. . . . I left the
Pentagon that afternoon deeply concerned."
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How far has the White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president keep the nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only to speak to us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
.
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| User: "Ed Cregger" |
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| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
15 Oct 2003 02:09:14 AM |
|
|
"jha_amin" <jha_amin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some good
points.
(snip lotsa good stuff)
The previous administration spent eight years of marking time and
accomplishing nothing. All that we struggled to obtain in defeating the
Soviet Union was slowly evaporating away. Clinton's main concern was
attending to his sex life, or lack of same.
An administration comes to power that has the vision to maintain the US's
position at the top of the heap. I am for that policy.
Make no mistake, there will always be a top of the heap, whether we wish to
acknowledge it or not. I do not want to live in a world where some other
country is at the top of the heap.
If England, Russia or Germany had succeeded in obtaining a working nuclear
arsenal before America, you can bet that they would now be the world's
preeminent power. Their lack of foresight, vision and good fortune led to
their missing an opportunity to become the world's preeminent superpower.
Let's not fool ourselves. Our wishing for peace and loathing war will only
disarm us. It will not prevent other nations from seeking power and control.
Yes, President Bush follows the path that he sees as correct and moral. His
happens to be that of Christianity. Christianity is still the religion of
America's majority. It seems perfectly natural that the President would form
strategies based upon the Christian paradigm. Are there problems inherent in
this approach? There could be. My concern is that he will be too constrained
because of his Christianity.
Does anyone remember seeing film footage of Afghani citizens attending a
soccer match? Remember the Taliban monitor attending the crowd with his
little horse whip? If someone smiled or expressed emotion while watching the
game, the Taliban idiot, with the IQ of a horsefly, reached out and whipped
them in the face. This is the kind of future world we will have if we screw
up and let the radical elements of Islam propagate. No f***ing way am I
going to permit that to happen. Neither will President Bush.
Ed Cregger
.
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| User: "jha_amin" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
15 Oct 2003 12:22:47 PM |
|
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"Ed Cregger" <ecregger@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bmirqt01vu2@enews1.newsguy.com>...
"jha_amin" <jha_amin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some good
points.
(snip lotsa good stuff)
The previous administration spent eight years of marking time and
accomplishing nothing. All that we struggled to obtain in defeating the
Soviet Union was slowly evaporating away. Clinton's main concern was
attending to his sex life, or lack of same.
An administration comes to power that has the vision to maintain the US's
position at the top of the heap. I am for that policy.
Make no mistake, there will always be a top of the heap, whether we wish to
acknowledge it or not. I do not want to live in a world where some other
country is at the top of the heap.
If England, Russia or Germany had succeeded in obtaining a working nuclear
arsenal before America, you can bet that they would now be the world's
preeminent power. Their lack of foresight, vision and good fortune led to
their missing an opportunity to become the world's preeminent superpower.
Let's not fool ourselves. Our wishing for peace and loathing war will only
disarm us. It will not prevent other nations from seeking power and control.
Yes, President Bush follows the path that he sees as correct and moral. His
happens to be that of Christianity. Christianity is still the religion of
America's majority. It seems perfectly natural that the President would form
strategies based upon the Christian paradigm. Are there problems inherent in
this approach? There could be. My concern is that he will be too constrained
because of his Christianity.
He he he....that's a good one, Ed. How many christians do you know
that actually follow jesus's teachings. "Bring 'em on" doesn't sound
like the meek.
Does anyone remember seeing film footage of Afghani citizens attending a
soccer match? Remember the Taliban monitor attending the crowd with his
little horse whip? If someone smiled or expressed emotion while watching the
game, the Taliban idiot, with the IQ of a horsefly, reached out and whipped
them in the face. This is the kind of future world we will have if we screw
up and let the radical elements of Islam propagate.
These guys are may be a thousand years behind the west. Do you feel
that they should be exterminated because of their culture?
No f***ing way am I
going to permit that to happen. Neither will President Bush.
I hope your long term plan goes well beyond bad mouthing the rest of
the world that is not like US. That doesn't help much, Ed.
Ed Cregger
.
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| User: "Charly the Bastard" |
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| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
14 Nov 2003 09:57:16 PM |
|
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jha_amin wrote:
"Ed Cregger" <ecregger@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bmirqt01vu2@enews1.newsguy.com>...
"jha_amin" <jha_amin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some good
points.
(snip lotsa good stuff)
The previous administration spent eight years of marking time and
accomplishing nothing. All that we struggled to obtain in defeating the
Soviet Union was slowly evaporating away. Clinton's main concern was
attending to his sex life, or lack of same.
An administration comes to power that has the vision to maintain the US's
position at the top of the heap. I am for that policy.
Make no mistake, there will always be a top of the heap, whether we wish to
acknowledge it or not. I do not want to live in a world where some other
country is at the top of the heap.
If England, Russia or Germany had succeeded in obtaining a working nuclear
arsenal before America, you can bet that they would now be the world's
preeminent power. Their lack of foresight, vision and good fortune led to
their missing an opportunity to become the world's preeminent superpower.
Let's not fool ourselves. Our wishing for peace and loathing war will only
disarm us. It will not prevent other nations from seeking power and control.
Yes, President Bush follows the path that he sees as correct and moral. His
happens to be that of Christianity. Christianity is still the religion of
America's majority. It seems perfectly natural that the President would form
strategies based upon the Christian paradigm. Are there problems inherent in
this approach? There could be. My concern is that he will be too constrained
because of his Christianity.
He he he....that's a good one, Ed. How many christians do you know
that actually follow jesus's teachings. "Bring 'em on" doesn't sound
like the meek.
Let's just say "We've run out of cheeks to turn".
Does anyone remember seeing film footage of Afghani citizens attending a
soccer match? Remember the Taliban monitor attending the crowd with his
little horse whip? If someone smiled or expressed emotion while watching the
game, the Taliban idiot, with the IQ of a horsefly, reached out and whipped
them in the face. This is the kind of future world we will have if we screw
up and let the radical elements of Islam propagate.
These guys are may be a thousand years behind the west. Do you feel
that they should be exterminated because of their culture?
Think of it as Evolution in Action. The last of the dinosaurs probably thrashed around a lot,
just before they croaked.
No f***ing way am I
going to permit that to happen. Neither will President Bush.
I hope your long term plan goes well beyond bad mouthing the rest of
the world that is not like US. That doesn't help much, Ed.
Ed Cregger
If I'd been in the White House on 9/11, the Middle East would be drifting down from the upper
atmosphere right now. Bush is a wimp who sold out to the Big Oil Group long ago.
.
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| User: "Sid See" |
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| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
15 Oct 2003 06:54:34 PM |
|
|
Ed Cregger <ecregger@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bmirqt01vu2@enews1.newsguy.com...
"jha_amin" <jha_amin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some good
points.
(snip lotsa good stuff)
The previous administration spent eight years of marking time and
accomplishing nothing.
You mean eight years fighting off the character
assassinations from the evil Christian Evangelicals...
and I suppose you consider balancing the federal
budget was 'nothing', eh?
An administration comes to power that has the vision to maintain the US's
position at the top of the heap. I am for that policy.
Er... you mean Halliburton or Bechtel, or...? being
at the top of the heap, since the world sees US as
nothing more than corporate bullies and miscreants
-- certainly not as a real world leader... nope... not
since l'il Bushie pissed on our allies and the UN,
illegally invaded a soverign nation (Iraq) without just
cause (no imminent danger)... and has the unethical
fortitude to lie and decieve US and the world!
Yes, President Bush follows the path that he sees as correct and moral.
Just because you or l'il Bushie sees it this way,
does not make it so! The lack of correctness
and/or morality (read: ethics) regarding the
Bush administration's motives is more than
apparent.
His happens to be that of Christianity.
No... he suscribes to a corrupted sect of
Christianity. A sect that does not believe in the
tenets of Jesus' teachings; i.e., peace,
brotherly love, humility, etc... rather it's kill,
plunder, grab power, and make huge profits...
all in the name of Jesus...
Christianity is still the religion of America's majority.
Perhaps, but the majority of Americans do not
suscribe to the corrupted Robertson - Fallwell
version (see above), as does your darling Mr.
Bush!
It seems perfectly natural that the President would form
strategies based upon the Christian paradigm.
<ROTFLMAO> I'm sure you meant to say
corporate paradigm... [translation: greed].
This is the kind of future world we will have if we screw
up and let the radical elements of Islam propagate.
The 'radical' elements of Islam have been
propagating for the last 1200 years... and is
why it's now the largest religion in the world.
It is not our place to be the world's religion
cop... or any type of world cop, for that
matter -- this is the job of the UN.
Incidentally, see no difference between being
oppressed by a corrupted Islam, than by the
corrupted evangelicals... both being equally
repugnant!
No f***ing way am I going to permit that to happen.
By your illusions of grandure, no doubt... as
if you have the power... <snicker>
Sid
Ed Cregger
.
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| User: "Charly the Bastard" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
15 Oct 2003 07:35:54 AM |
|
|
Ed Cregger wrote:
"jha_amin" <jha_amin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some good
points.
(snip lotsa good stuff)
The previous administration spent eight years of marking time and
accomplishing nothing. All that we struggled to obtain in defeating the
Soviet Union was slowly evaporating away. Clinton's main concern was
attending to his sex life, or lack of same.
An administration comes to power that has the vision to maintain the US's
position at the top of the heap. I am for that policy.
Make no mistake, there will always be a top of the heap, whether we wish to
acknowledge it or not. I do not want to live in a world where some other
country is at the top of the heap.
If England, Russia or Germany had succeeded in obtaining a working nuclear
arsenal before America, you can bet that they would now be the world's
preeminent power. Their lack of foresight, vision and good fortune led to
their missing an opportunity to become the world's preeminent superpower.
Let's not fool ourselves. Our wishing for peace and loathing war will only
disarm us. It will not prevent other nations from seeking power and control.
Yes, President Bush follows the path that he sees as correct and moral. His
happens to be that of Christianity. Christianity is still the religion of
America's majority. It seems perfectly natural that the President would form
strategies based upon the Christian paradigm. Are there problems inherent in
this approach? There could be. My concern is that he will be too constrained
because of his Christianity.
Does anyone remember seeing film footage of Afghani citizens attending a
soccer match? Remember the Taliban monitor attending the crowd with his
little horse whip? If someone smiled or expressed emotion while watching the
game, the Taliban idiot, with the IQ of a horsefly, reached out and whipped
them in the face. This is the kind of future world we will have if we screw
up and let the radical elements of Islam propagate. No f***ing way am I
going to permit that to happen. Neither will President Bush.
Ed Cregger
Ed, if we wanted to, we could pacify the entire region with the contents of one
submarine. It would only take twenty minutes, and the problem would go away for
a century or so, which is how long it would take for the background count to get
down below 'lethal in five minutes'. But if you kill them all, they won't learn
anything. That's the real problem here, these poor sods haven't got a clue, and
the mullahs pour hate into them every Friday morning. What we are really
battling here is an idea, and ideas are not beaten with physical weapons.
Perhaps, instead of bombs, we should be throwing tenured Professors armed with
web-enabled laptops at them. I've got a buddy in tech school, he has a Middle
Eastern classmate. They were discussing the situation, and this ME classmate
didn't even know what a MIRV was, ,and this guy's supposed to have an
engineering background! They haven't got Clue One, we should pity them their
ignorance.
Charly
.
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| User: "Leigh_Bee" |
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| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
14 Oct 2003 05:02:37 PM |
|
|
(jha_amin) wrote in message news:<33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com>...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President Bush will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has stumbled in Iraq and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside those reveries. He's
going all the way?and taking us with him.
SNIP
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How far has the White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president keep the nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only to speak to us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
H'mm on paper Mr Bush plays to the "Middle ground with simplistic
jingoistic language, and repeats himself like Hitler did, now this is
fine at home but the rest of the world is watching the "Boy Crusader"
mess in the areas of Sovereignty, and the rules of Engagement, well
this does bode well for future conflict, one can easily see Guantamano
Bay is going to look like the Hilton in future camps!
Rights how about Wrongs?
LB
.
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| User: "dreamwalker backfrom" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
14 Oct 2003 10:04:16 PM |
|
|
"Leigh_Bee" <leigh8bee@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39cd5fe.0310141402.4675a815@posting.google.com...
jha_amin@yahoo.com (jha_amin) wrote in message
news:<33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com>...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President Bush will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has stumbled in Iraq and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside those reveries. He's
going all the way?and taking us with him.
SNIP
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How far has the White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president keep the nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only to speak to us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
H'mm on paper Mr Bush plays to the "Middle ground with simplistic
jingoistic language, and repeats himself like Hitler did, now this is
fine at home but the rest of the world is watching the "Boy Crusader"
mess in the areas of Sovereignty, and the rules of Engagement, well
this does bode well for future conflict, one can easily see Guantamano
Bay is going to look like the Hilton in future camps!
Rights how about Wrongs?
LB
3000 dead on 9/11. How many detainees? We got a ways to go.
.
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
15 Oct 2003 08:42:49 AM |
|
|
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vop7el6tcafefa@corp.supernews.com...
"Leigh_Bee" <leigh8bee@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39cd5fe.0310141402.4675a815@posting.google.com...
jha_amin@yahoo.com (jha_amin) wrote in message
news:<33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com>...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President Bush will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has stumbled in Iraq and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside those reveries. He's
going all the way?and taking us with him.
SNIP
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How far has the White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president keep the nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only to speak to us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
H'mm on paper Mr Bush plays to the "Middle ground with simplistic
jingoistic language, and repeats himself like Hitler did, now this is
fine at home but the rest of the world is watching the "Boy Crusader"
mess in the areas of Sovereignty, and the rules of Engagement, well
this does bode well for future conflict, one can easily see Guantamano
Bay is going to look like the Hilton in future camps!
Rights how about Wrongs?
LB
3000 dead on 9/11. How many detainees? We got a ways to go.
Yes, well, it's that kind of "thinking" that led to the 3,000 odd being dead
in the first place.
.
|
|
|
| User: "dreamwalker backfrom" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
15 Oct 2003 02:39:33 PM |
|
|
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmjir3$jrr$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vop7el6tcafefa@corp.supernews.com...
"Leigh_Bee" <leigh8bee@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39cd5fe.0310141402.4675a815@posting.google.com...
jha_amin@yahoo.com (jha_amin) wrote in message
news:<33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com>...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President Bush will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has stumbled in Iraq
and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside those reveries.
He's
going all the way?and taking us with him.
SNIP
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How far has the
White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president keep the
nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only to speak to
us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
H'mm on paper Mr Bush plays to the "Middle ground with simplistic
jingoistic language, and repeats himself like Hitler did, now this is
fine at home but the rest of the world is watching the "Boy Crusader"
mess in the areas of Sovereignty, and the rules of Engagement, well
this does bode well for future conflict, one can easily see Guantamano
Bay is going to look like the Hilton in future camps!
Rights how about Wrongs?
LB
3000 dead on 9/11. How many detainees? We got a ways to go.
Yes, well, it's that kind of "thinking" that led to the 3,000 odd being
dead
in the first place.
And how many attacks have occured since 9/11 on American soil? Can't argue
with success.
.
|
|
|
| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
16 Oct 2003 03:22:40 AM |
|
|
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vor1op52ijin5b@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmjir3$jrr$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vop7el6tcafefa@corp.supernews.com...
"Leigh_Bee" <leigh8bee@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39cd5fe.0310141402.4675a815@posting.google.com...
jha_amin@yahoo.com (jha_amin) wrote in message
news:<33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com>...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some
good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President Bush will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has stumbled in Iraq
and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside those reveries.
He's
going all the way?and taking us with him.
SNIP
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How far has the
White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president keep the
nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only to speak to
us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
H'mm on paper Mr Bush plays to the "Middle ground with simplistic
jingoistic language, and repeats himself like Hitler did, now this
is
fine at home but the rest of the world is watching the "Boy
Crusader"
mess in the areas of Sovereignty, and the rules of Engagement, well
this does bode well for future conflict, one can easily see
Guantamano
Bay is going to look like the Hilton in future camps!
Rights how about Wrongs?
LB
3000 dead on 9/11. How many detainees? We got a ways to go.
Yes, well, it's that kind of "thinking" that led to the 3,000 odd being
dead
in the first place.
And how many attacks have occured since 9/11 on American soil?
How many attacks have occured on Americans NOT on American soil since? A
hell of a lot more. How many people are you going to have to send to a
concentration camp without trial to stop that I wonder?
.
|
|
|
| User: "dreamwalker backfrom" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
16 Oct 2003 10:47:25 AM |
|
|
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmlkep$k23$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vor1op52ijin5b@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmjir3$jrr$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vop7el6tcafefa@corp.supernews.com...
"Leigh_Bee" <leigh8bee@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39cd5fe.0310141402.4675a815@posting.google.com...
jha_amin@yahoo.com (jha_amin) wrote in message
news:<33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com>...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some
good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President Bush will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has stumbled in
Iraq
and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside those
reveries.
He's
going all the way?and taking us with him.
SNIP
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How far has the
White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president keep the
nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only to speak
to
us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
H'mm on paper Mr Bush plays to the "Middle ground with simplistic
jingoistic language, and repeats himself like Hitler did, now this
is
fine at home but the rest of the world is watching the "Boy
Crusader"
mess in the areas of Sovereignty, and the rules of Engagement,
well
this does bode well for future conflict, one can easily see
Guantamano
Bay is going to look like the Hilton in future camps!
Rights how about Wrongs?
LB
3000 dead on 9/11. How many detainees? We got a ways to go.
Yes, well, it's that kind of "thinking" that led to the 3,000 odd
being
dead
in the first place.
And how many attacks have occured since 9/11 on American soil?
How many attacks have occured on Americans NOT on American soil since? A
hell of a lot more. How many people are you going to have to send to a
concentration camp without trial to stop that I wonder?
The answer is simple. As many as it takes.
.
|
|
|
| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
16 Oct 2003 09:50:18 AM |
|
|
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vot8h95l759i9c@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmlkep$k23$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vor1op52ijin5b@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmjir3$jrr$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vop7el6tcafefa@corp.supernews.com...
"Leigh_Bee" <leigh8bee@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39cd5fe.0310141402.4675a815@posting.google.com...
jha_amin@yahoo.com (jha_amin) wrote in message
news:<33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com>...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some
good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President Bush will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has stumbled in
Iraq
and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside those
reveries.
He's
going all the way?and taking us with him.
SNIP
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How far has
the
White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president keep the
nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only to
speak
to
us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
H'mm on paper Mr Bush plays to the "Middle ground with
simplistic
jingoistic language, and repeats himself like Hitler did, now
this
is
fine at home but the rest of the world is watching the "Boy
Crusader"
mess in the areas of Sovereignty, and the rules of Engagement,
well
this does bode well for future conflict, one can easily see
Guantamano
Bay is going to look like the Hilton in future camps!
Rights how about Wrongs?
LB
3000 dead on 9/11. How many detainees? We got a ways to go.
Yes, well, it's that kind of "thinking" that led to the 3,000 odd
being
dead
in the first place.
And how many attacks have occured since 9/11 on American soil?
How many attacks have occured on Americans NOT on American soil since? A
hell of a lot more. How many people are you going to have to send to a
concentration camp without trial to stop that I wonder?
The answer is simple.
As many as it takes.
But by your own logic, if no attack has happened on american soil since
those people were locked up, but more happened to americans abroad, locking
up more people will just kill more americans abroad. This means you'll have
to stay at home in order not to get killed, so who's going to go out and
capture them?
Then, there is the small matter of establishing their gulit and involvement
while you have them in the concentration camp. Something the Bush admin has
been a little bit bad at so far.
.
|
|
|
| User: "dreamwalker backfrom" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
16 Oct 2003 10:16:15 PM |
|
|
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmmb5j$4ps$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vot8h95l759i9c@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmlkep$k23$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vor1op52ijin5b@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmjir3$jrr$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vop7el6tcafefa@corp.supernews.com...
"Leigh_Bee" <leigh8bee@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39cd5fe.0310141402.4675a815@posting.google.com...
jha_amin@yahoo.com (jha_amin) wrote in message
news:<33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com>...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make
some
good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President Bush
will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has stumbled in
Iraq
and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside those
reveries.
He's
going all the way?and taking us with him.
SNIP
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How far has
the
White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president keep
the
nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only to
speak
to
us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
H'mm on paper Mr Bush plays to the "Middle ground with
simplistic
jingoistic language, and repeats himself like Hitler did, now
this
is
fine at home but the rest of the world is watching the "Boy
Crusader"
mess in the areas of Sovereignty, and the rules of Engagement,
well
this does bode well for future conflict, one can easily see
Guantamano
Bay is going to look like the Hilton in future camps!
Rights how about Wrongs?
LB
3000 dead on 9/11. How many detainees? We got a ways to go.
Yes, well, it's that kind of "thinking" that led to the 3,000 odd
being
dead
in the first place.
And how many attacks have occured since 9/11 on American soil?
How many attacks have occured on Americans NOT on American soil since?
A
hell of a lot more. How many people are you going to have to send to a
concentration camp without trial to stop that I wonder?
The answer is simple.
As many as it takes.
But by your own logic, if no attack has happened on american soil since
those people were locked up, but more happened to americans abroad,
locking
up more people will just kill more americans abroad. This means you'll
have
to stay at home in order not to get killed, so who's going to go out and
capture them?
Then, there is the small matter of establishing their gulit and
involvement
while you have them in the concentration camp. Something the Bush admin
has
been a little bit bad at so far.
Many countries are extraditing these weirdoes. They don't want them either.
.
|
|
|
| User: "dreamwalker backfrom" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
17 Oct 2003 12:54:06 AM |
|
|
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vougsc5g3h5c6d@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmmb5j$4ps$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vot8h95l759i9c@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmlkep$k23$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vor1op52ijin5b@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmjir3$jrr$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vop7el6tcafefa@corp.supernews.com...
"Leigh_Bee" <leigh8bee@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39cd5fe.0310141402.4675a815@posting.google.com...
jha_amin@yahoo.com (jha_amin) wrote in message
news:<33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com>...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make
some
good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President Bush
will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has stumbled
in
Iraq
and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside those
reveries.
He's
going all the way?and taking us with him.
SNIP
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How far
has
the
White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president keep
the
nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only to
speak
to
us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
H'mm on paper Mr Bush plays to the "Middle ground with
simplistic
jingoistic language, and repeats himself like Hitler did,
now
this
is
fine at home but the rest of the world is watching the "Boy
Crusader"
mess in the areas of Sovereignty, and the rules of
Engagement,
well
this does bode well for future conflict, one can easily see
Guantamano
Bay is going to look like the Hilton in future camps!
Rights how about Wrongs?
LB
3000 dead on 9/11. How many detainees? We got a ways to go.
Yes, well, it's that kind of "thinking" that led to the 3,000
odd
being
dead
in the first place.
And how many attacks have occured since 9/11 on American soil?
How many attacks have occured on Americans NOT on American soil
since?
A
hell of a lot more. How many people are you going to have to send to
a
concentration camp without trial to stop that I wonder?
The answer is simple.
As many as it takes.
But by your own logic, if no attack has happened on american soil since
those people were locked up, but more happened to americans abroad,
locking
up more people will just kill more americans abroad. This means you'll
have
to stay at home in order not to get killed, so who's going to go out and
capture them?
Then, there is the small matter of establishing their gulit and
involvement
while you have them in the concentration camp. Something the Bush admin
has
been a little bit bad at so far.
Many countries are extraditing these weirdoes. They don't want them
either.
I might add, we should start charging these countries room and board for
their criminals.
.
|
|
|
| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
17 Oct 2003 02:46:28 AM |
|
|
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vouq47m8nnepea@corp.supernews.com...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vougsc5g3h5c6d@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmmb5j$4ps$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vot8h95l759i9c@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmlkep$k23$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vor1op52ijin5b@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmjir3$jrr$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vop7el6tcafefa@corp.supernews.com...
"Leigh_Bee" <leigh8bee@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39cd5fe.0310141402.4675a815@posting.google.com...
jha_amin@yahoo.com (jha_amin) wrote in message
news:<33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com>...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does
make
some
good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President Bush
will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has
stumbled
in
Iraq
and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside those
reveries.
He's
going all the way?and taking us with him.
SNIP
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How far
has
the
White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president
keep
the
nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only
to
speak
to
us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
H'mm on paper Mr Bush plays to the "Middle ground with
simplistic
jingoistic language, and repeats himself like Hitler did,
now
this
is
fine at home but the rest of the world is watching the
"Boy
Crusader"
mess in the areas of Sovereignty, and the rules of
Engagement,
well
this does bode well for future conflict, one can easily
see
Guantamano
Bay is going to look like the Hilton in future camps!
Rights how about Wrongs?
LB
3000 dead on 9/11. How many detainees? We got a ways to go.
Yes, well, it's that kind of "thinking" that led to the 3,000
odd
being
dead
in the first place.
And how many attacks have occured since 9/11 on American soil?
How many attacks have occured on Americans NOT on American soil
since?
A
hell of a lot more. How many people are you going to have to send
to
a
concentration camp without trial to stop that I wonder?
The answer is simple.
As many as it takes.
But by your own logic, if no attack has happened on american soil
since
those people were locked up, but more happened to americans abroad,
locking
up more people will just kill more americans abroad. This means you'll
have
to stay at home in order not to get killed, so who's going to go out
and
capture them?
Then, there is the small matter of establishing their gulit and
involvement
while you have them in the concentration camp. Something the Bush
admin
has
been a little bit bad at so far.
Many countries are extraditing these weirdoes. They don't want them
either.
I might add, we should start charging these countries room and board for
their criminals.
If they're criminals, what are they doing locked up in a military
concentration camp without trial or access to lawyers? That's against
international law you know.
.
|
|
|
| User: "dreamwalker backfrom" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
17 Oct 2003 07:14:16 PM |
|
|
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmo6mt$171$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vouq47m8nnepea@corp.supernews.com...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vougsc5g3h5c6d@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmmb5j$4ps$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vot8h95l759i9c@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmlkep$k23$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vor1op52ijin5b@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmjir3$jrr$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vop7el6tcafefa@corp.supernews.com...
"Leigh_Bee" <leigh8bee@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39cd5fe.0310141402.4675a815@posting.google.com...
jha_amin@yahoo.com (jha_amin) wrote in message
news:<33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com>...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does
make
some
good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President
Bush
will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has
stumbled
in
Iraq
and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside
those
reveries.
He's
going all the way?and taking us with him.
SNIP
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How
far
has
the
White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president
keep
the
nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only
to
speak
to
us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
H'mm on paper Mr Bush plays to the "Middle ground with
simplistic
jingoistic language, and repeats himself like Hitler
did,
now
this
is
fine at home but the rest of the world is watching the
"Boy
Crusader"
mess in the areas of Sovereignty, and the rules of
Engagement,
well
this does bode well for future conflict, one can easily
see
Guantamano
Bay is going to look like the Hilton in future camps!
Rights how about Wrongs?
LB
3000 dead on 9/11. How many detainees? We got a ways to
go.
Yes, well, it's that kind of "thinking" that led to the
3,000
odd
being
dead
in the first place.
And how many attacks have occured since 9/11 on American soil?
How many attacks have occured on Americans NOT on American soil
since?
A
hell of a lot more. How many people are you going to have to
send
to
a
concentration camp without trial to stop that I wonder?
The answer is simple.
As many as it takes.
But by your own logic, if no attack has happened on american soil
since
those people were locked up, but more happened to americans abroad,
locking
up more people will just kill more americans abroad. This means
you'll
have
to stay at home in order not to get killed, so who's going to go out
and
capture them?
Then, there is the small matter of establishing their gulit and
involvement
while you have them in the concentration camp. Something the Bush
admin
has
been a little bit bad at so far.
Many countries are extraditing these weirdoes. They don't want them
either.
I might add, we should start charging these countries room and board for
their criminals.
If they're criminals, what are they doing locked up in a military
concentration camp without trial or access to lawyers? That's against
international law you know.
Criminals in their respective countries. Military combatants to us.
.
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| User: "Tom" |
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| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
20 Oct 2003 05:02:29 AM |
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"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message news:<vp0qjmgeaq2tbf@corp.supernews.com>...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmo6mt$171$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
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"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vougsc5g3h5c6d@corp.supernews.com...
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news:bmmb5j$4ps$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
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news:vot8h95l759i9c@corp.supernews.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
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news:vop7el6tcafefa@corp.supernews.com...
"Leigh_Bee" <leigh8bee@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39cd5fe.0310141402.4675a815@posting.google.com...
jha_amin@yahoo.com (jha_amin) wrote in message
news:<33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com>...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does
make
some
good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President
Bush
will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has
stumbled
in
Iraq
and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside
those
reveries.
He's
going all the way?and taking us with him.
SNIP
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How
far
has
the
White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president
keep
the
nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only
to
speak
to
us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
H'mm on paper Mr Bush plays to the "Middle ground with
simplistic
jingoistic language, and repeats himself like Hitler
did,
now
this
is
fine at home but the rest of the world is watching the
"Boy
Crusader"
mess in the areas of Sovereignty, and the rules of
Engagement,
well
this does bode well for future conflict, one can easily
see
Guantamano
Bay is going to look like the Hilton in future camps!
Rights how about Wrongs?
LB
3000 dead on 9/11. How many detainees? We got a ways to
go.
Yes, well, it's that kind of "thinking" that led to the
3,000
odd
being
dead
in the first place.
And how many attacks have occured since 9/11 on American soil?
How many attacks have occured on Americans NOT on American soil
since?
A
hell of a lot more. How many people are you going to have to
send
to
a
concentration camp without trial to stop that I wonder?
The answer is simple.
As many as it takes.
But by your own logic, if no attack has happened on american soil
since
those people were locked up, but more happened to americans abroad,
locking
up more people will just kill more americans abroad. This means
you'll
have
to stay at home in order not to get killed, so who's going to go out
and
capture them?
Then, there is the small matter of establishing their gulit and
involvement
while you have them in the concentration camp. Something the Bush
admin
has
been a little bit bad at so far.
Many countries are extraditing these weirdoes. They don't want them
either.
I might add, we should start charging these countries room and board for
their criminals.
If they're criminals, what are they doing locked up in a military
concentration camp without trial or access to lawyers? That's against
international law you know.
Criminals in their respective countries. Military combatants to us.
...in which case they shoudl be treated as POWs, so it's still against
international law..
.
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
17 Oct 2003 05:16:57 PM |
|
|
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:<bmo6mt$171>
If they're criminals, what are they doing locked up in a military
concentration camp without trial or access to lawyers? That's against
international law you know.
================================================================================
I should just hop over and let them all out if I felt as strongly as you do tw.
My but you are a moralist. You must be fun to live with.
Ricky
================================================================================
.
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| User: "Tom" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
20 Oct 2003 05:04:49 AM |
|
|
(Werewolfy) wrote in message news:<85ebfda0.0310171416.1fed0d16@posting.google.com>...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:<bmo6mt$171>
If they're criminals, what are they doing locked up in a military
concentration camp without trial or access to lawyers? That's against
international law you know.
================================================================================
I should just hop over and let them all out if I felt as strongly as you do
tw.
So you don't "feel strongly" about international law being borken
then? Fair enough..
My but you are a moralist.
Bush is the one moralising (while breaking international law).
You must be fun to live with.
Well, if we ever argued, we could just kiss and make up like you and
Dimwanker did, then you'd feel honour bound to kiss my arse and
protect me.
.
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| User: "sUSAn" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
20 Oct 2003 06:40:15 AM |
|
|
What-ever teh heck Tom's user name is >today wrote:
Werewolfy wrote:
You must be fun to live with.
Well, if we ever argued, we could just
kiss and make up like you and
Dimwanker did, then you'd feel honour
bound to kiss my arse and protect me.
This is the second time you have told this lie and now I am going to set
this straight for gOOgle purposes and any recent newcomers that have
seen your lies.
That was definitely a handshake between two men and not a kiss. This was
something that is rarely seen in apn or the real world. It touched a lot
of people and will be remembered for a long time as opposed to the
venomous BS that you have been spewing from your mouth. The fact that
you belittle what transpired tells me you don't have what it takes
inside you to do this yourself.
To show you the difference between a kiss and a handshake, If you
promise to take your very large bruised ego to another NG to be healed
and fed, I 'sUSAn', would *kiss* your arse goodbye and without even
having to bend since you wear it so well on your shoulders.
Think about Mr. BIGSTUFF!
.
|
|
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| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
21 Oct 2003 03:29:13 AM |
|
|
"sUSAn" <tugbertswife@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25576-3F93C99F-43@storefull-2153.public.lawson.webtv.net...
What-ever teh heck Tom's user name is >today wrote:
Werewolfy wrote:
You must be fun to live with.
Well, if we ever argued, we could just
kiss and make up like you and
Dimwanker did, then you'd feel honour
bound to kiss my arse and protect me.
This is the second time you have told this lie and now I am going to set
this straight for gOOgle purposes and any recent newcomers that have
seen your lies.
LOL
That was definitely a handshake between two men and not a kiss.
It was neither, they "kissed and made up" metaphorically via email.
This was something that is rarely seen in apn or the real world.
I suggest you get out in teh real world more if you think that.
It touched a lot of people and will be remembered for a long time
Oh, it was lovely. I nearly cried myself.
as opposed to the venomous BS that you have been spewing from your mouth.
Venomous? SO it's venomous to ask someone to bakc up their ***** with
facts is it? Ooooo Kayyyy..
The fact that you belittle what transpired tells me you don't have what it
takes
inside you to do this yourself.
I'm not belittling their apologies toward each other, just Rick's spaniel
like devotion that has followed. Well, I'm not belittling it as such just
questioning the intellectual honesty of it.
To show you the difference between a kiss and a handshake,
...and you can't tell teh difference between metaphors and real life, so
what?
If you promise to take your very large bruised ego to another NG to be
healed
and fed, I 'sUSAn', would *kiss* your arse goodbye and without even
having to bend since you wear it so well on your shoulders.
Oooohh! Get her!
..
.
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
20 Oct 2003 01:03:47 PM |
|
|
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:<bmo6mt$171>
If they're criminals, what are they doing locked up in a military
concentration camp without trial or access to lawyers? That's against
international law you know.
================================================================================
"So you don't "feel strongly" about international law being borken
then? Fair enough.."
From the above response I presume that you do then tw. So, just what
are you doing about things, other than to inundate message boards with
your own brand of posts. I would have thought that you would have been
more active than that. After all, we must stop things being 'borken'
mustn't we?
Tell me all you know about 'International law' then tw. How it is
formed, how it is policed, which courts hold sway over the world to
ensure it is enforced?
Which countries are allowed a part of legislative drafting...and which
are not. Who sets the criteria? How just is it, and is it equally
representative?
There, that should keep you busy looking things up for a while. I
notice you write quite a lot to many threads under different names. Do
you spend 24 hours a day just writing posts? How exciting. Perhaps you
should do something instead of simply complaining ?
Ricky
================================================================================
.
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|
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| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
21 Oct 2003 03:44:33 AM |
|
|
"Werewolfy" <RickyColeclough@aol.com> wrote in message
news:85ebfda0.0310201003.4150161@posting.google.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:<bmo6mt$171>
If they're criminals, what are they doing locked up in a military
concentration camp without trial or access to lawyers? That's against
international law you know.
============================================================================
====
"So you don't "feel strongly" about international law being borken
then? Fair enough.."
From the above response I presume that you do then tw.
I think laws are important yes.
So, just what are you doing about things, other than to inundate message
boards with
your own brand of posts.
I think raising people's awareness of where laws are being broken or
unfairly applied is as good a step as any.
Tell me all you know about 'International law' then tw.
All I know? I'd rather just stick to the pertinenet parts if you don't mind:
International law requires that prisoners are charged and given access to
lawyers. It expressly forbids governments from imprisoning them indefnitely
without trial. You can read all about this in the Universal Charter on Human
Rights, I believe the US is a signatory.
How it is formed,
By the UN office of legal affairs.
how it is policed,
By the UN
which courts hold sway over the world to
ensure it is enforced?
The UN (International Court of justice, International Criminal Court)
Which countries are allowed a part of legislative drafting...and which
are not. Who sets the criteria? How just is it, and is it equally
representative?
There, that should keep you busy looking things up for a while.
Why should I provide any of this information to you when:
1) When asked to provide some basis for your rant against the Independent
you failed to produce any supporting evidence for your argument? (other than
some deeply flawed reasoning which showed you can't tell the difference
between news reporting and opinion pieces)
2) You presumably have access to the internet yourself
http://www.un.org/law/
I notice you write quite a lot to many threads under different names.
I use two accounts, one has the name "TW" one "Tom". Why this has you and
Susan so upset, I don't know..
.
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| User: "Leigh_Bee" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
15 Oct 2003 05:21:44 PM |
|
|
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message news:<vor1op52ijin5b@corp.supernews.com>...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:bmjir3$jrr$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
"dreamwalker" <backfrom the@dead.com> wrote in message
news:vop7el6tcafefa@corp.supernews.com...
"Leigh_Bee" <leigh8bee@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:39cd5fe.0310141402.4675a815@posting.google.com...
jha_amin@yahoo.com (jha_amin) wrote in message
news:<33b7880.0310141052.685acb90@posting.google.com>...
I don't know who this guy Schanberg is, but he does make some good
points.
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0342/schanberg.php
Bush's War Plan Is Scarier Than He's Saying
The Widening Crusade
by Sydney H. Schanberg
October 15 - 21, 2003
f some wishful Americans are still hoping President Bush will
acknowledge that his imperial foreign policy has stumbled in Iraq
and
needs fixing or reining in, they should put aside those reveries.
He's
going all the way?and taking us with him.
SNIP
A five-year military campaign. Seven countries. How far has the
White
House taken this plan? And how long can the president keep the
nation
in the dark, emerging from his White House cocoon only to speak to
us
in slogans and the sterile language of pep rallies?
H'mm on paper Mr Bush plays to the "Middle ground with simplistic
jingoistic language, and repeats himself like Hitler did, now this is
fine at home but the rest of the world is watching the "Boy Crusader"
mess in the areas of Sovereignty, and the rules of Engagement, well
this does bode well for future conflict, one can easily see Guantamano
Bay is going to look like the Hilton in future camps!
Rights how about Wrongs?
LB
3000 dead on 9/11. How many detainees? We got a ways to go.
Yes, well, it's that kind of "thinking" that led to the 3,000 odd being
dead
in the first place.
And how many attacks have occured since 9/11 on American soil? Can't argue
with success.
Now one should not call the game when kickoff has still not been
called, so saying the decks are clean is no measure of success.
But like all Imperial endings none of the participants ever understand
it is over, when the whistle is blown.
LB
.
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|
| User: "dreamwalker backfrom" |
|
| Title: Re: The last crusade? |
15 Oct 2003 08:08:27 PM |
|
| | | | | |
