With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam. Among
other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
The New Pearl Harbor
By Michael E. Salla, M.A., Ph.D.
11/08/07 "ICH" -- -- -The Bush administration has covered up and
ignored dissenting Pentagon war games analysis that suggests an attack
on Iran's nuclear or military facilities will lead directly to the
annihilation of the Navy's Fifth Fleet now stationed in the Persian
Gulf. Lt. General Paul Van Riper led a hypothetical Persian Gulf
state in the 2002 Millennium Challenge wargames that resulted in the
destruction of the Fifth Fleet. His experience and conclusions
regarding the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to an assymetrical
military conflict with Iran have been ignored. Neoconservatives within
the Bush administration are currently aggressively promoting a range
of military actions against Iran that will culminate in it attacking
the US Navy's Fifth Fleet with sophisticated cruise anti-ship
missiles. They are ignoring Van Riper's experiences in the Millennium
Challenge and how it applies to the current nuclear conflict with
Iran.
Iran has sufficient quantities of cruise missiles to destroy much or
all of the Fifth Fleet which is within range of Iran's mobile missile
launchers strategically located along its mountainous terrain
overlooking the Persian Gulf. The Bush administration is deliberately
downplaying the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to Iran's advanced
missile technology which has been purchased from Russia and China
since the late 1990's. The most sophisticated of Iran's cruise
missiles are the 'Sunburn' and 'Yakhonts'. These are missiles against
which U.S. military experts conclude modern warships have no effective
defense. By deliberately provoking an Iranian retaliation to U.S.
military actions, the neoconservatives will knowingly sacrifice much
or all of the Fifth Fleet. This will culminate in a new Pearl Harbor
that will create the right political environment for total war against
Iran, and expanded military actions in the Persian Gulf region.
The rest of the article : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18687.htm
.
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| User: "Uncle Wally" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
09 Nov 2007 10:09:15 PM |
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FRICK !
Batton down those hatches & start dustin' off the ol' Fallout Shelter,
John !
HOOROO
UNCLE WALLY
----
On Nov 10, 1:17 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam. Among
other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
The New Pearl Harbor
By Michael E. Salla, M.A., Ph.D.
11/08/07 "ICH" -- -- -The Bush administration has covered up and
ignored dissenting Pentagon war games analysis that suggests an attack
on Iran's nuclear or military facilities will lead directly to the
annihilation of the Navy's Fifth Fleet now stationed in the Persian
Gulf. Lt. General Paul Van Riper led a hypothetical Persian Gulf
state in the 2002 Millennium Challenge wargames that resulted in the
destruction of the Fifth Fleet. His experience and conclusions
regarding the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to an assymetrical
military conflict with Iran have been ignored. Neoconservatives within
the Bush administration are currently aggressively promoting a range
of military actions against Iran that will culminate in it attacking
the US Navy's Fifth Fleet with sophisticated cruise anti-ship
missiles. They are ignoring Van Riper's experiences in the Millennium
Challenge and how it applies to the current nuclear conflict with
Iran.
Iran has sufficient quantities of cruise missiles to destroy much or
all of the Fifth Fleet which is within range of Iran's mobile missile
launchers strategically located along its mountainous terrain
overlooking the Persian Gulf. The Bush administration is deliberately
downplaying the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to Iran's advanced
missile technology which has been purchased from Russia and China
since the late 1990's. The most sophisticated of Iran's cruise
missiles are the 'Sunburn' and 'Yakhonts'. These are missiles against
which U.S. military experts conclude modern warships have no effective
defense. By deliberately provoking an Iranian retaliation to U.S.
military actions, the neoconservatives will knowingly sacrifice much
or all of the Fifth Fleet. This will culminate in a new Pearl Harbor
that will create the right political environment for total war against
Iran, and expanded military actions in the Persian Gulf region.
The rest of the article :http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18687.htm
.
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| User: "John Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
10 Nov 2007 07:02:49 AM |
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On Nov 9, 11:09 pm, Uncle Wally <sgdecember2...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
FRICK !
FRICK, YEAH!!!! RIGHT FRICKIN' A STRAIGHT, BUDDY.
Batton down those hatches & start dustin' off the ol' Fallout Shelter,
John !
I don't worry about myself much. If the Lord Jesus doesn't come and
whisk me away I'll may simply stand up, turn west and face Chicago,
put a cigar in my mouth and say, "Light me".
We need to be concerned about our posterity. I've got one spectacular
16 month old grandson and another one due in February. Another boy.
Those are two of the biggest reasons these warmongering assholes
really ***** me off.
HOOROO!!!!
.
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| User: "Pers3id" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
10 Nov 2007 01:51:56 AM |
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John Lemke <jflemke@locallink.net> wrote in
news:1194661050.043300.62070@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam. Among
other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
The New Pearl Harbor
By Michael E. Salla, M.A., Ph.D.
11/08/07 "ICH" -- -- -The Bush administration has covered up and
ignored dissenting Pentagon war games analysis that suggests an attack
on Iran's nuclear or military facilities will lead directly to the
annihilation of the Navy's Fifth Fleet now stationed in the Persian
Gulf. Lt. General Paul Van Riper led a hypothetical Persian Gulf
state in the 2002 Millennium Challenge wargames that resulted in the
destruction of the Fifth Fleet. His experience and conclusions
regarding the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to an assymetrical
military conflict with Iran have been ignored. Neoconservatives within
the Bush administration are currently aggressively promoting a range
of military actions against Iran that will culminate in it attacking
the US Navy's Fifth Fleet with sophisticated cruise anti-ship
missiles. They are ignoring Van Riper's experiences in the Millennium
Challenge and how it applies to the current nuclear conflict with
Iran.
Iran has sufficient quantities of cruise missiles to destroy much or
all of the Fifth Fleet which is within range of Iran's mobile missile
launchers strategically located along its mountainous terrain
I guess it's just a matter of getting the Iranians to shoot first, eh ?
I'm sure Iran would not survive long an all-out war with the US.. get
round-the-clock b1 and b2 bombing raids going from diego garcia and
the US b2 bases, give it about 2 months and Iran would be a smouldering
mess.
After a month of bombing I'm sure Russia would drive over the northern
border and do some of the messy work for us, ground combat and
occupation. Everybody would want a piece of those natural resources.
I bet even China would find a way to get involved.
overlooking the Persian Gulf. The Bush administration is deliberately
downplaying the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to Iran's advanced
missile technology which has been purchased from Russia and China
since the late 1990's. The most sophisticated of Iran's cruise
missiles are the 'Sunburn' and 'Yakhonts'. These are missiles against
which U.S. military experts conclude modern warships have no effective
defense. By deliberately provoking an Iranian retaliation to U.S.
military actions, the neoconservatives will knowingly sacrifice much
or all of the Fifth Fleet. This will culminate in a new Pearl Harbor
that will create the right political environment for total war against
Iran, and expanded military actions in the Persian Gulf region.
The rest of the article :
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18687.htm
.
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| User: "John Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
10 Nov 2007 07:24:31 AM |
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On Nov 10, 2:51 am, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
I guess it's just a matter of getting the Iranians to shoot first, eh ?
Or shoot second, even. Common word is that Israel is ready to go now
that Ahmadinejad announced 3,000 working centrifuges.
I'm sure Iran would not survive long an all-out war with the US.. get
round-the-clock b1 and b2 bombing raids going from diego garcia and
the US b2 bases, give it about 2 months and Iran would be a smouldering
mess.
Perhaps along with some smoke on the water. Dah, dah,
dah...........dah, dah, dah, dah.............dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
After a month of bombing I'm sure Russia would drive over the northern
border and do some of the messy work for us, ground combat and
occupation. Everybody would want a piece of those natural resources.
I bet even China would find a way to get involved.
Can't really think of a better way for us to harm our national
interests in the Middle East than to do this, eh? I mean, you go from
trying to expand your control of ME oil thru imperial aggression and
end up driving nations with oceans of oil under them right into the
laps of your primary competition. Russian or Chinese bases in the ME
instead of our own.
Permanent Russian or Chinese bases in the ME instead of the bases we'd
lusted after? How moronic, how Bushlike.
We go from getting extremely positive overtures from moderates in Iran
after 9/11 to this. We go from Iran aiding us against the Taleban
after 9-11 to this.
We could eat the Russians alive in a conventional war if we had the
assets. The attack on the Syrian "nuclear target" had Israeli pilots
saying afterward that they could fly into Teheran in broad daylight
without being seen. It was our performance in Gulf War I that
convinced the Bear that they'd be ducks on the water against us.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
10 Nov 2007 06:08:25 AM |
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On Nov 10, 2:51 am, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote innews:1194661050.043300.62070@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam. Among
other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
The New Pearl Harbor
By Michael E. Salla, M.A., Ph.D.
11/08/07 "ICH" -- -- -The Bush administration has covered up and
ignored dissenting Pentagon war games analysis that suggests an attack
on Iran's nuclear or military facilities will lead directly to the
annihilation of the Navy's Fifth Fleet now stationed in the Persian
Gulf. Lt. General Paul Van Riper led a hypothetical Persian Gulf
state in the 2002 Millennium Challenge wargames that resulted in the
destruction of the Fifth Fleet. His experience and conclusions
regarding the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to an assymetrical
military conflict with Iran have been ignored. Neoconservatives within
the Bush administration are currently aggressively promoting a range
of military actions against Iran that will culminate in it attacking
the US Navy's Fifth Fleet with sophisticated cruise anti-ship
missiles. They are ignoring Van Riper's experiences in the Millennium
Challenge and how it applies to the current nuclear conflict with
Iran.
Iran has sufficient quantities of cruise missiles to destroy much or
all of the Fifth Fleet which is within range of Iran's mobile missile
launchers strategically located along its mountainous terrain
I guess it's just a matter of getting the Iranians to shoot first, eh ?
Wouldn't take much, the Iranian leaders are not very stable, did
anyone
happen to read what Putin and other Russians had to say about them
the other day? Pretty weird stuff.
I'm sure Iran would not survive long an all-out war with the US.. get
round-the-clock b1 and b2 bombing raids going from diego garcia and
the US b2 bases, give it about 2 months and Iran would be a smouldering
mess.
After a month of bombing I'm sure Russia would drive over the northern
border and do some of the messy work for us, ground combat and
occupation. Everybody would want a piece of those natural resources.
I bet even China would find a way to get involved.
It's a very dangerous world, which is why the West must remain united
and strong.
overlooking the Persian Gulf. The Bush administration is deliberately
downplaying the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to Iran's advanced
missile technology which has been purchased from Russia and China
since the late 1990's. The most sophisticated of Iran's cruise
missiles are the 'Sunburn' and 'Yakhonts'. These are missiles against
which U.S. military experts conclude modern warships have no effective
defense. By deliberately provoking an Iranian retaliation to U.S.
military actions, the neoconservatives will knowingly sacrifice much
or all of the Fifth Fleet. This will culminate in a new Pearl Harbor
that will create the right political environment for total war against
Iran, and expanded military actions in the Persian Gulf region.
The rest of the article :
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18687.htm
.
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| User: "John Lemke" |
|
| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
10 Nov 2007 07:31:46 AM |
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On Nov 10, 7:08 am, wrote:
Wouldn't take much, the Iranian leaders are not very stable, did
anyone
happen to read what Putin and other Russians had to say about them
the other day? Pretty weird stuff.
Why don't you post a credible link that we can all see?
Regardless of their stability or lack thereof wouldn't you expect a
counterstrike if they were attacked?
Would you attack them and continue to comment on their insane
radicalism even after they fought back?
More than likely.
I'm sure Iran would not survive long an all-out war with the US.. get
round-the-clock b1 and b2 bombing raids going from diego garcia and
the US b2 bases, give it about 2 months and Iran would be a smouldering
mess.
After a month of bombing I'm sure Russia would drive over the northern
border and do some of the messy work for us, ground combat and
occupation. Everybody would want a piece of those natural resources.
I bet even China would find a way to get involved.
It's a very dangerous world, which is why the West must remain united
and strong.
It's about to become a worldwide resource war because warmongers like
you are bent on domination rather than any Christian form of business
interaction.
.
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| User: "eric" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
14 Nov 2007 08:15:19 AM |
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On Nov 9, 11:51 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote innews:1194661050.043300.62070@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam. Among
other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
The New Pearl Harbor
By Michael E. Salla, M.A., Ph.D.
11/08/07 "ICH" -- -- -The Bush administration has covered up and
ignored dissenting Pentagon war games analysis that suggests an attack
on Iran's nuclear or military facilities will lead directly to the
annihilation of the Navy's Fifth Fleet now stationed in the Persian
Gulf. Lt. General Paul Van Riper led a hypothetical Persian Gulf
state in the 2002 Millennium Challenge wargames that resulted in the
destruction of the Fifth Fleet. His experience and conclusions
regarding the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to an assymetrical
military conflict with Iran have been ignored. Neoconservatives within
the Bush administration are currently aggressively promoting a range
of military actions against Iran that will culminate in it attacking
the US Navy's Fifth Fleet with sophisticated cruise anti-ship
missiles. They are ignoring Van Riper's experiences in the Millennium
Challenge and how it applies to the current nuclear conflict with
Iran.
Iran has sufficient quantities of cruise missiles to destroy much or
all of the Fifth Fleet which is within range of Iran's mobile missile
launchers strategically located along its mountainous terrain
I guess it's just a matter of getting the Iranians to shoot first, eh ?
I'm sure Iran would not survive long an all-out war with the US.. get
round-the-clock b1 and b2 bombing raids going from diego garcia and
the US b2 bases, give it about 2 months and Iran would be a smouldering
mess.
After a month of bombing I'm sure Russia would drive over the northern
border and do some of the messy work for us, ground combat and
occupation. Everybody would want a piece of those natural resources.
I bet even China would find a way to get involved.
overlooking the Persian Gulf. The Bush administration is deliberately
downplaying the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to Iran's advanced
missile technology which has been purchased from Russia and China
since the late 1990's. The most sophisticated of Iran's cruise
missiles are the 'Sunburn' and 'Yakhonts'. These are missiles against
which U.S. military experts conclude modern warships have no effective
defense. By deliberately provoking an Iranian retaliation to U.S.
military actions, the neoconservatives will knowingly sacrifice much
or all of the Fifth Fleet. This will culminate in a new Pearl Harbor
that will create the right political environment for total war against
Iran, and expanded military actions in the Persian Gulf region.
The rest of the article :
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18687.htm
Good idea to bomb Iran, if America wants another 500,000 potential
"terrorists". Wonder what sort of Government Iran would have had
today, if American Terrorists hadn't overthrown their democratically
elected leader, and installed the Shah. Hmmmm.
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
10 Nov 2007 07:13:50 PM |
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On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:17:30 -0800, John Lemke wrote:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam. Among
other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
They're evil and twisted, and we can only pray that the schmucks who've
been voting these rats into office open their eyes and get 'em out of
office asap!
Woods
.
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| User: "Dani" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
13 Nov 2007 06:27:19 PM |
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On 11 Nov 2007 01:13:50 GMT, Woodswun <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:17:30 -0800, John Lemke wrote:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam. Among
other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
They're evil and twisted, and we can only pray that the schmucks who've
been voting these rats into office open their eyes and get 'em out of
office asap!
Totally agreed! Those idiots who voted him in must be deaf, blind and
dumb. I believe we *will* get our country back, Woods. Maybe I'm too
optimistic but I won't give up!
Dani
Woods
.
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| User: "John Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
11 Nov 2007 07:40:53 AM |
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On Nov 10, 8:13 pm, Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:17:30 -0800, John Lemke wrote:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam. Among
other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
They're evil and twisted, and we can only pray that the schmucks who've
been voting these rats into office open their eyes and get 'em out of
office asap!
Woods
Seems like they've done enough damage already doesn't it.
Y'all may find this an interesting aside.
The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy
exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=492804&in_page_id=1811
American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected
Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise
and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with
4,500 personnel on board.
By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack
submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for
launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.
According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation
in the U.S. Navy
So much for our great Naval capabilities.
.
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| User: "Pers3id" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
11 Nov 2007 07:27:01 PM |
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John Lemke <jflemke@locallink.net> wrote in
news:1194788453.349957.245450@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
On Nov 10, 8:13 pm, Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:17:30 -0800, John Lemke wrote:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam.
Among other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
They're evil and twisted, and we can only pray that the schmucks
who've been voting these rats into office open their eyes and get 'em
out of office asap!
Woods
Seems like they've done enough damage already doesn't it.
Y'all may find this an interesting aside.
The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy
exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_a
rticle_id=492804&in_page_id=1811
American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected
Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise
and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with
4,500 personnel on board.
By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack
submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for
launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.
I don't think these diesel subs are known for their speed and power..
it probably just went real deep then came up like an air bubble, right
in the middle of our fleet.
According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation
in the U.S. Navy
So much for our great Naval capabilities.
.
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| User: "John Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
12 Nov 2007 06:45:42 AM |
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On Nov 11, 8:27 pm, Pers3id <pers...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote innews:1194788453.349957.245450@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
On Nov 10, 8:13 pm, Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:17:30 -0800, John Lemke wrote:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam.
Among other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
They're evil and twisted, and we can only pray that the schmucks
who've been voting these rats into office open their eyes and get 'em
out of office asap!
Woods
Seems like they've done enough damage already doesn't it.
Y'all may find this an interesting aside.
The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy
exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_a
rticle_id=492804&in_page_id=1811
American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected
Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise
and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with
4,500 personnel on board.
By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack
submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for
launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.
I don't think these diesel subs are known for their speed and power..
it probably just went real deep then came up like an air bubble, right
in the middle of our fleet.
I don't know for sure how they stack up speed wise. Of the subs in
the US Fleet the average speed they admit to is 25 knots. Speculation
for the Virginia class subs runs 30-32 knots. The Chinese Song class
subs are listed at 22 knots.
Maybe with the vastness of the oceans a 3 knot difference in speed
could be a lot. They certainly couldn't chase down a carrier.
This particular Chinese sub surfaced 5 nautical miles away from the
Kitty Hawk near Okinawa. Within easy range of the vessel's weapons
systems. A surprise the U.S. didn't welcome, I'm sure.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
13 Nov 2007 01:02:53 AM |
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On Nov 10, 8:13 pm, Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote:
They're evil and twisted, and we can only pray that the schmucks who've
been voting these rats into office open their eyes and get 'em out of
office asap!
Woods
I agree that the Iranian people need to chose new leaders.
.
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| User: "eric" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
09 Nov 2007 11:55:02 PM |
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On Nov 9, 6:17 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam. Among
other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
The New Pearl Harbor
By Michael E. Salla, M.A., Ph.D.
11/08/07 "ICH" -- -- -The Bush administration has covered up and
ignored dissenting Pentagon war games analysis that suggests an attack
on Iran's nuclear or military facilities will lead directly to the
annihilation of the Navy's Fifth Fleet now stationed in the Persian
Gulf. Lt. General Paul Van Riper led a hypothetical Persian Gulf
state in the 2002 Millennium Challenge wargames that resulted in the
destruction of the Fifth Fleet. His experience and conclusions
regarding the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to an assymetrical
military conflict with Iran have been ignored. Neoconservatives within
the Bush administration are currently aggressively promoting a range
of military actions against Iran that will culminate in it attacking
the US Navy's Fifth Fleet with sophisticated cruise anti-ship
missiles. They are ignoring Van Riper's experiences in the Millennium
Challenge and how it applies to the current nuclear conflict with
Iran.
Iran has sufficient quantities of cruise missiles to destroy much or
all of the Fifth Fleet which is within range of Iran's mobile missile
launchers strategically located along its mountainous terrain
overlooking the Persian Gulf. The Bush administration is deliberately
downplaying the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to Iran's advanced
missile technology which has been purchased from Russia and China
since the late 1990's. The most sophisticated of Iran's cruise
missiles are the 'Sunburn' and 'Yakhonts'. These are missiles against
which U.S. military experts conclude modern warships have no effective
defense. By deliberately provoking an Iranian retaliation to U.S.
military actions, the neoconservatives will knowingly sacrifice much
or all of the Fifth Fleet. This will culminate in a new Pearl Harbor
that will create the right political environment for total war against
Iran, and expanded military actions in the Persian Gulf region.
The rest of the article :http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18687.htm
Most of the world will route for Iran. ***** Bush. ***** America
.
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| User: "Dani" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
13 Nov 2007 06:17:19 PM |
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On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:55:02 -0000, eric <ericdavis500@gmail.com>
wrote:
***** Bush. ***** America
***** Bush - NOT America! I still have hope that we will get our
country back! Back the way it used to be before that mutha ***** took
over.
Mark my words, eric - we WILL get America back.
Dani
.
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| User: "eric" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
13 Nov 2007 07:01:19 PM |
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On Nov 13, 4:17 pm, Dani <d.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:55:02 -0000, eric <ericdavis...@gmail.com>
wrote:
***** Bush. ***** America
***** Bush - NOT America! I still have hope that we will get our
country back! Back the way it used to be before that mutha ***** took
over.
Mark my words, eric - we WILL get America back.
Dani
Hopefully when you do, you will jail those criminal bastards.
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| User: "Pers3id" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
13 Nov 2007 09:54:44 PM |
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eric <ericdavis500@gmail.com> wrote in news:1195002079.346976.305470
@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
On Nov 13, 4:17 pm, Dani <d.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:55:02 -0000, eric <ericdavis...@gmail.com>
wrote:
***** Bush. ***** America
***** Bush - NOT America! I still have hope that we will get our
country back! Back the way it used to be before that mutha ***** took
over.
Mark my words, eric - we WILL get America back.
Dani
Hopefully when you do, you will jail those criminal bastards.
Interestingly enough, there's a House of Representatives vote later
this week to hold White House officials in Contempt of Congress.. not
sure what the ramifications will be, but it's one more nail in the
coffin.
White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten and former White House
Counsel Harriet Miers both refused to comply with congressional
subpoenas regarding the U.S. attorney purge, claiming "executive
privilege." Those claims of executive privilege were rejected by
members of Congress. The House has no choice but to assert its
constitutional oversight authority.
.
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| User: "The Kat" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
10 Nov 2007 01:38:11 AM |
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On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:55:02 -0000, eric <ericdavis500@gmail.com> wrote:
Most of the world will route for Iran. ***** Bush. ***** America
A) You're stupid,
B) You're a liar, and
C) You have a VERY poor command of English!
--
Lumber Cartel (tinlc) #2063. Spam this account at your own risk.
This sig censored by the Office of Home, Land & Planet Insecurity...
Remove XYZ to email me
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| User: "Dani" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
13 Nov 2007 06:23:17 PM |
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On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 23:38:11 -0800, The Kat <news1@katxyzkave.net>
wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:55:02 -0000, eric <ericdavis500@gmail.com> wrote:
Most of the world will route for Iran. ***** Bush. ***** America
A) You're stupid,
B) You're a liar, and
C) You have a VERY poor command of English!
Wrong. eric is not stupid, nor is he a liar and he doesn't have a
poor command of English. You are the stupid one for not giving a
coherent response and ALWAYS just responding to people with insults.
Always responding with insults shows YOU are stupid because you have
NOTHING intelligent to say! And obviously you are the one with the
poor command of English if you zero to add to to this group but
insults.
You seem like a very ***** dude who comes on here and vents your
frustrations.
Dani
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
10 Nov 2007 09:06:35 PM |
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On Nov 9, 9:17 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam. Among
other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
The New Pearl Harbor
By Michael E. Salla, M.A., Ph.D.
11/08/07 "ICH" -- -- -The Bush administration has covered up and
ignored dissenting Pentagon war games analysis that suggests an attack
on Iran's nuclear or military facilities will lead directly to the
annihilation of the Navy's Fifth Fleet now stationed in the Persian
Gulf. Lt. General Paul Van Riper led a hypothetical Persian Gulf
state in the 2002 Millennium Challenge wargames that resulted in the
destruction of the Fifth Fleet. His experience and conclusions
regarding the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to an assymetrical
military conflict with Iran have been ignored. Neoconservatives within
the Bush administration are currently aggressively promoting a range
of military actions against Iran that will culminate in it attacking
the US Navy's Fifth Fleet with sophisticated cruise anti-ship
missiles. They are ignoring Van Riper's experiences in the Millennium
Challenge and how it applies to the current nuclear conflict with
Iran.
Iran has sufficient quantities of cruise missiles to destroy much or
all of the Fifth Fleet which is within range of Iran's mobile missile
launchers strategically located along its mountainous terrain
overlooking the Persian Gulf. The Bush administration is deliberately
downplaying the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to Iran's advanced
missile technology which has been purchased from Russia and China
since the late 1990's. The most sophisticated of Iran's cruise
missiles are the 'Sunburn' and 'Yakhonts'. These are missiles against
which U.S. military experts conclude modern warships have no effective
defense. By deliberately provoking an Iranian retaliation to U.S.
military actions, the neoconservatives will knowingly sacrifice much
or all of the Fifth Fleet. This will culminate in a new Pearl Harbor
that will create the right political environment for total war against
Iran, and expanded military actions in the Persian Gulf region.
The rest of the article :http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18687.htm
/rant on
OH COME ON!! That's pure posturing, sloganeering...well it's just
nonsense.
We all know that GW would never do anything to harm Amairicans.
He lives on a ranch after all. He supports our troops. He just
wants to kick a little Iranian butt! I mean, destruction of the 5th
fleet could be construed
as a "catastrophic emergency." If that were to happen, Bush could
suspend the election, take control of all three branches of
government,
declare martial law and turn the US into a dictatorship. And that
would NEVER happen
here.
Pssshaw. Do you really think that Bush and Cheney would end
the lives of thousands of Amairicans just to achieve a strategic,
economic
and political objectives?? I mean, Penn and Teller tell us
that the 9/11 Truth movement is *****. And we all know
how smart those two guys are. They know everything.
Silly PhDs, Physicists and demolitions experts who
claim 9/11 was an inside job..sheesh. Penn AND Teller
say it's all ***** (well, Teller just sort of nods).
Before you perpetuate
stuff like this, take a deep breath and
think about how unpatriotic you are even to suggest
that OUR PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT,
Bush and Cheney would kill thousands of
people just for an excuse to kill more people
and appropriate hundreds of billions more dollars
to put toward the defense industry and of course
halliburton (which Cheney used to be the CEO of, but
Im sure he has no stock in that company now).
We are in a crusade here--it's us or them!! Well...
at least it's Israel or them...but you know what I mean.
How are you gonna feel if some Klingon bird of prey
flies into a building in Las Vegas?? Huh? Bet you'll
think twice about posting nonsense like this if that
happens. Besides we need that oil (cough cough)
I mean, we need to end the threat of their horrible
weapons of mass destruction and bring them
democracy like they had before we paid to have
the Shah take over. OUR kind of democracy--not
that silly religious stuff that they actually
vote for now...
Whew, that was fun. BTW Loose Change Final Cut is out.
/rant off
S~
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
10 Nov 2007 09:30:28 PM |
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<shastaman@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1194750395.723664.25210@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 9, 9:17 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam. Among
other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
The New Pearl Harbor
By Michael E. Salla, M.A., Ph.D.
11/08/07 "ICH" -- -- -The Bush administration has covered up and
ignored dissenting Pentagon war games analysis that suggests an attack
on Iran's nuclear or military facilities will lead directly to the
annihilation of the Navy's Fifth Fleet now stationed in the Persian
Gulf. Lt. General Paul Van Riper led a hypothetical Persian Gulf
state in the 2002 Millennium Challenge wargames that resulted in the
destruction of the Fifth Fleet. His experience and conclusions
regarding the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to an assymetrical
military conflict with Iran have been ignored. Neoconservatives within
the Bush administration are currently aggressively promoting a range
of military actions against Iran that will culminate in it attacking
the US Navy's Fifth Fleet with sophisticated cruise anti-ship
missiles. They are ignoring Van Riper's experiences in the Millennium
Challenge and how it applies to the current nuclear conflict with
Iran.
Iran has sufficient quantities of cruise missiles to destroy much or
all of the Fifth Fleet which is within range of Iran's mobile missile
launchers strategically located along its mountainous terrain
overlooking the Persian Gulf. The Bush administration is deliberately
downplaying the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to Iran's advanced
missile technology which has been purchased from Russia and China
since the late 1990's. The most sophisticated of Iran's cruise
missiles are the 'Sunburn' and 'Yakhonts'. These are missiles against
which U.S. military experts conclude modern warships have no effective
defense. By deliberately provoking an Iranian retaliation to U.S.
military actions, the neoconservatives will knowingly sacrifice much
or all of the Fifth Fleet. This will culminate in a new Pearl Harbor
that will create the right political environment for total war against
Iran, and expanded military actions in the Persian Gulf region.
The rest of the article
:http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18687.htm
/rant on
OH COME ON!! That's pure posturing, sloganeering...well it's just
nonsense.
We all know that GW would never do anything to harm Amairicans.
He lives on a ranch after all. He supports our troops. He just
wants to kick a little Iranian butt! I mean, destruction of the 5th
fleet could be construed
as a "catastrophic emergency." If that were to happen, Bush could
suspend the election, take control of all three branches of
government,
declare martial law and turn the US into a dictatorship. And that
would NEVER happen
here.
Pssshaw. Do you really think that Bush and Cheney would end
the lives of thousands of Amairicans just to achieve a strategic,
economic
and political objectives?? I mean, Penn and Teller tell us
that the 9/11 Truth movement is *****. And we all know
how smart those two guys are. They know everything.
Silly PhDs, Physicists and demolitions experts who
claim 9/11 was an inside job..sheesh. Penn AND Teller
say it's all ***** (well, Teller just sort of nods).
Unless we're willing to act on what some believe to be a truthful revelation
on 911, and make meaningful human behavioral and power-structure changes,
rather than be entertained by it all, knowing for a fact that it is an
'inside job' or any of a varying array of conspiracies, is of no real value
to us, is it? So, Penn and Teller may be wrong, or the generic 911.com
purveyors may be right, but being right is not going to affect the changes
in the power heirarchy, or in intrinsic human behaviour, unless people
actually do something to change it -- not simply talk about it, and present
their 'evidence' and wallow around in it.
Rather than live in a state of cynicism and perpetual cryptic entertainment
from 911 theories and 'facts', the revelations we're told that indicate a
shadowy collusion that threatens our freedoms and negatively impacts our
future, it would behoove us instead to take the risks necessary to act upon
these revelations -- if, in fact, they are what they're claimed to be.
I'm sick and tired of conspiratorial fantasies and a continuing clandestine
soap opera that swirls around 911, and the purveyors who are making their
fame and fortune from it, or the psychotics and sociopaths that use it for
their narcissistic purposes.
Yes, Penn and Teller may be wrong. Perhaps no one is right. Perhaps they're
all at least a bit right...etc. If we aren't willing to act upon it, or
change our behaviour, then what good does all the 911 'revelations' and
intrigue do for us? Entertainment? Affirmation of our cynicism?
Narcissistic obsession? Intellectual creative flexing?
I mean, they're still arguing over whether Roosevelt knew Pearl Harbor was
going to be attacked, planned for it to allow it to be attacked, to get
America directly involved in WW2...I mean, they're still arguing whether the
moon mission was a phony or not...whether Kennedy's assassination was a
conspiracy...uh...the list in rather long. Add 911. Stir. Simmer. Season to
your taste.
Doc :))~
Before you perpetuate
stuff like this, take a deep breath and
think about how unpatriotic you are even to suggest
that OUR PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT,
Bush and Cheney would kill thousands of
people just for an excuse to kill more people
and appropriate hundreds of billions more dollars
to put toward the defense industry and of course
halliburton (which Cheney used to be the CEO of, but
Im sure he has no stock in that company now).
We are in a crusade here--it's us or them!! Well...
at least it's Israel or them...but you know what I mean.
How are you gonna feel if some Klingon bird of prey
flies into a building in Las Vegas?? Huh? Bet you'll
think twice about posting nonsense like this if that
happens. Besides we need that oil (cough cough)
I mean, we need to end the threat of their horrible
weapons of mass destruction and bring them
democracy like they had before we paid to have
the Shah take over. OUR kind of democracy--not
that silly religious stuff that they actually
vote for now...
Whew, that was fun. BTW Loose Change Final Cut is out.
/rant off
S~
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
11 Nov 2007 01:07:08 AM |
|
|
On Nov 10, 10:30 pm, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
<shasta...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1194750395.723664.25210@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 9, 9:17 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam. Among
other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
The New Pearl Harbor
By Michael E. Salla, M.A., Ph.D.
/rant on
OH COME ON!! That's pure posturing, sloganeering...well it's just
nonsense.
We all know that GW would never do anything to harm Amairicans.
He lives on a ranch after all. He supports our troops. He just
wants to kick a little Iranian butt! I mean, destruction of the 5th
fleet could be construed
as a "catastrophic emergency." If that were to happen, Bush could
suspend the election, take control of all three branches of
government,
declare martial law and turn the US into a dictatorship. And that
would NEVER happen
here.
Pssshaw. Do you really think that Bush and Cheney would end
the lives of thousands of Amairicans just to achieve a strategic,
economic
and political objectives?? I mean, Penn and Teller tell us
that the 9/11 Truth movement is *****. And we all know
how smart those two guys are. They know everything.
Silly PhDs, Physicists and demolitions experts who
claim 9/11 was an inside job..sheesh. Penn AND Teller
say it's all ***** (well, Teller just sort of nods).
Unless we're willing to act on what some believe to be a truthful revelation
on 911, and make meaningful human behavioral and power-structure changes,
rather than be entertained by it all, knowing for a fact that it is an
'inside job' or any of a varying array of conspiracies, is of no real value
to us, is it?
Sure it is...Once enough people take a close look and realize that it
isn't
fantasy at all. I'm entertained by dim-witted people like you who
shout
conspiracy theory when 30 percent of the population including far
more credible people than some pathetic internet troll who knows
neither his history nor his science can look at the facts and realize
there was more to 9/11 than the flashy distraction.
The value in this case comes in pointing out that the Bush
administration clearly
would kill thousands of people to reach its goals. It comes in
getting
this in front of enough people who aren't so thick-headed and afraid
that they refuse to see the obvious--and there is enterainment for
me in slamming a habitual troll. Whoohoo.
So, Penn and Teller may be (ARE) wrong, or the generic 911.com
purveyors may be right, but being right is not going to affect the changes
in the power heirarchy, or in intrinsic human behaviour, unless people
actually do something to change it -- not simply talk about it, and present
their 'evidence' and wallow around in it.
yeah, terrible, why present evidence? *smacks forehead*
Rather than live in a state of cynicism and perpetual cryptic entertainment
from 911 theories and 'facts', the revelations we're told that indicate a
shadowy collusion that threatens our freedoms and negatively impacts our
future, it would behoove us instead to take the risks necessary to act upon
these revelations -- if, in fact, they are what they're claimed to be.
You mean like risk being called a conspiracy theorist? Like
teaching a class on Islam at an accredited university only to be
attacked by
Hannity while 90% of the faculty at that university support you? But
it's ok,
Sean Hannity is the sole dispensor of truth. He's on Fox News after
all.
I'm sick and tired
I really don't care what you're sick and tired of, there, troll. I'm
sick and tired
of your perpetual attacks and provocations, but that won't make you go
away will it?
of conspiratorial fantasies and a continuing clandestine
soap opera that swirls around 911, and the purveyors who are making their
fame and fortune from it, or the psychotics and sociopaths
fantasies and soap operas swirling and psychotics and sociopaths
and.....
PhDs and Physicists and Demolition Experts and Ex-military
and Entertainers and College Professors and well...anyone not blinded
by fear and discomfort.
But hey, call names. I can do that too. Doc, you're a fake and a
troll.
Normally, I won't waste time on you. But in this case, might as well
take the opportunity to demonstrate the flaws in the ad hominem
attacks.
that use it for
their narcissistic purposes.
Yes, Penn and Teller may be (ARE) wrong. Perhaps no one is right. Perhaps they're
all at least a bit right...etc. If we aren't willing to act upon it, or
change our behaviour, then what good does all the 911 'revelations' and
intrigue do for us? Entertainment? Affirmation of our cynicism?
Narcissistic obsession? Intellectual creative flexing?
Getting people to take a look? Getting more support in the midst of
media
ridicule? Amazing you failed to see those possibilities and instead
go
for flagrantly insulting ones that make people who risk ridicule
because
this issue actually matters look self-serving. You have a future at
Fox.
I mean, they're still arguing over whether Roosevelt knew Pearl Harbor was
going to be attacked, planned for it to allow it to be attacked, to get
America directly involved in WW2...I mean, they're still arguing whether the
moon mission was a phony or not...whether Kennedy's assassination was a
conspiracy...uh...the list in rather long. Add 911. Stir. Simmer. Season to
your taste.
But they aren't arguing that all of the above are straw men--
ridiculous examples that
aren't even close to as obvious as 9/11's false flag. No reason to
argue that...
because it's so obvious.
Our own government had means,
motive, opportunity and the ability to cover it up as quickly as
possible. And if you'll
take a look at the 9/11 report and the way Guiliani handled things,
covering up
is exactly what they did. Bush and Cheney are those that benefited
the most.
And nobody wants to believe it. It's hard. It hurts.
Yet, when we see BBC report that a building
has fallen while it is still standing, when we see someone admit to
destroying
a building for which he had a huge insurance policy and which housed
SEC documentation on insider trading while the mainstream press
feeds the American people another story, when we look at all the
experts
who lose jobs immediatly after saying...wow, clearly a controlled
demoltion...
when we see how many hundreds of billions of dollars
Bush and Cheney got out of the deal...
Time to get the word out. Time to deal with the ad hominem stuff from
smacked asses who think Penn and Teller are Rhodes scholars and from
the press and from all the people who haven't even really looked at
the evidence that couldn't be covered up. Time to deal with all the
straw men arguments like "the planes were holograms" or "aliens did
it."
Talking about it is the first step. Doing anything else, right now,
would amount
to suicide. There isn't enough support. But the number
people who understand is growing--despite how hard it is to accept
that the government officials that we voted into office are the real
terrorists.
S~
V: There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect
even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns
will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be
used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power.
Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the
enunciation of truth.
.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
|
| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
12 Nov 2007 03:34:20 AM |
|
|
<shastaman@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1194764828.254143.165590@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 10, 10:30 pm, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
<shasta...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1194750395.723664.25210@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 9, 9:17 pm, John Lemke <jfle...@locallink.net> wrote:
With the idea being the rallying of America to war with Islam. Among
other "ideas" we may have to deal with.
Just throwing this out there for the heck of it.
The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet
The New Pearl Harbor
By Michael E. Salla, M.A., Ph.D.
/rant on
OH COME ON!! That's pure posturing, sloganeering...well it's just
nonsense.
We all know that GW would never do anything to harm Amairicans.
He lives on a ranch after all. He supports our troops. He just
wants to kick a little Iranian butt! I mean, destruction of the 5th
fleet could be construed
as a "catastrophic emergency." If that were to happen, Bush could
suspend the election, take control of all three branches of
government,
declare martial law and turn the US into a dictatorship. And that
would NEVER happen
here.
Pssshaw. Do you really think that Bush and Cheney would end
the lives of thousands of Amairicans just to achieve a strategic,
economic
and political objectives?? I mean, Penn and Teller tell us
that the 9/11 Truth movement is *****. And we all know
how smart those two guys are. They know everything.
Silly PhDs, Physicists and demolitions experts who
claim 9/11 was an inside job..sheesh. Penn AND Teller
say it's all ***** (well, Teller just sort of nods).
Unless we're willing to act on what some believe to be a truthful
revelation
on 911, and make meaningful human behavioral and power-structure changes,
rather than be entertained by it all, knowing for a fact that it is an
'inside job' or any of a varying array of conspiracies, is of no real
value
to us, is it?
Sure it is...Once enough people take a close look and realize that it
isn't
fantasy at all. I'm entertained by dim-witted people like you
Now...here is where your post shows how 'mature' you are, fella. Note that I
didn't call you any names or make any derogatory references to your
intelligence or personality. My post was generally about the fallacies of
9-11 conspiracy believers. It didn't get down to YOU as a personal swipe.
But, here you begin to go astray quickly and insult me. See it, fella??
Now...move on to my next issue with your personality below...
who
shout
conspiracy theory when 30 percent of the population including far
more credible people than some pathetic internet troll who knows
neither his history nor his science
Again, another direct swipe at me. Insulting arrogant ***** from your mind.
And you think you're not a troll? Aren't trolls often thought of as trying
to provoke posters with insults and insinuations? Sure, that's your own
definition of me as a supposed troll, ain't it? Move on to my next issue
with you pretty please...
can look at the facts and realize
there was more to 9/11 than the flashy distraction.
The value in this case comes in pointing out that the Bush
administration clearly
would kill thousands of people to reach its goals. It comes in
getting
this in front of enough people who aren't so thick-headed and afraid
that they refuse to see the obvious--and there is enterainment for
me in slamming a habitual troll.
Woohoo, is right, fella. Another direct slam at me. Insulting, arrogant
swipe. Move on to my next issue with you please....
Whoohoo.
So, Penn and Teller may be (ARE) wrong, or the generic 911.com
purveyors may be right, but being right is not going to affect the
changes
in the power heirarchy, or in intrinsic human behaviour, unless people
actually do something to change it -- not simply talk about it, and
present
their 'evidence' and wallow around in it.
yeah, terrible, why present evidence? *smacks forehead*
Rather than live in a state of cynicism and perpetual cryptic
entertainment
from 911 theories and 'facts', the revelations we're told that indicate a
shadowy collusion that threatens our freedoms and negatively impacts our
future, it would behoove us instead to take the risks necessary to act
upon
these revelations -- if, in fact, they are what they're claimed to be.
You mean like risk being called a conspiracy theorist? Like
teaching a class on Islam at an accredited university only to be
attacked by
Hannity while 90% of the faculty at that university support you? But
it's ok,
Sean Hannity is the sole dispensor of truth. He's on Fox News after
all.
I'm sick and tired
I really don't care what you're sick and tired of, there, troll. I'm
sick and tired
of your perpetual attacks and provocations, but that won't make you go
away will it?
Attacks and provocations ON YOU? No sir, where have I done this to YOU in
the past? No where to be found in the archives. Look for it. I invite you.
You've repeatedly insulted me, called me a derogatory term, belittled my
contributions, while elevating your contributions as something far superior,
far more desired than what I present. I remind you that my original post to
you was severely questioning 9-11 conspiracy believers...and if you re-read
that post, you'll see that, at that point, I'm being polite but pointed in
my counter-argument. No personal attack on you, no name calling, no insults
to YOU. Now, maybe you should take a good look at your behaviour and wonder
why I then splattered you with insults and name calling in the my next post
as a reply to your personalized attack on me. HUH? But, there, you're
blaming me for getting personal and throwing derogatory stuff at ya, aren't
ya? Listen, mister, you deserve to get what you dish out, and certainly it
wasn't provoked by me to have you get personal like that. Maybe you should
carefully examine why you went off your handle and attacked me like that.
There's no maturity in that kind of response. It reads like a middle-school
kid blowing his lil' top. Don't you dare tell me I'm not mature, you lil'
*****, when your own behaviour makes you a disassociative psycho, a
hypocrite. Do you think you can take personal swipes at people, unprovoked,
and then not have a strong nasty response as their defense? *****.
of conspiratorial fantasies and a continuing clandestine
soap opera that swirls around 911, and the purveyors who are making their
fame and fortune from it, or the psychotics and sociopaths
fantasies and soap operas swirling and psychotics and sociopaths
and.....
PhDs and Physicists and Demolition Experts and Ex-military
and Entertainers and College Professors and well...anyone not blinded
by fear and discomfort.
But hey, call names. I can do that too.
Yeah, you did and you started calling me derogatory names. I didn't do that
to you, fella.
Doc, you're a fake and a
troll.
More insults and put-down crap from ya. Got a lot of rage in your *****,
haven't ya?
Normally, I won't waste time on you. But in this case, might as well
take the opportunity to demonstrate the flaws in the ad hominem
attacks.
Another put down. Ho...hum...
that use it for
their narcissistic purposes.
Yes, Penn and Teller may be (ARE) wrong. Perhaps no one is right. Perhaps
they're
all at least a bit right...etc. If we aren't willing to act upon it, or
change our behaviour, then what good does all the 911 'revelations' and
intrigue do for us? Entertainment? Affirmation of our cynicism?
Narcissistic obsession? Intellectual creative flexing?
Getting people to take a look? Getting more support in the midst of
media
ridicule? Amazing you failed to see those possibilities and instead
go
for flagrantly insulting ones that make people who risk ridicule
because
Yep, I'm 'insulting' THEM, not YOU directly. I was talking about the
believers in such conspiracies. If I had wanted it to be about YOU, I'd done
exactly what you did to me -- attack you directly and call you names, insult
you, etc.
this issue actually matters look self-serving. You have a future at
Fox.
I mean, they're still arguing over whether Roosevelt knew Pearl Harbor
was
going to be attacked, planned for it to allow it to be attacked, to get
America directly involved in WW2...I mean, they're still arguing whether
the
moon mission was a phony or not...whether Kennedy's assassination was a
conspiracy...uh...the list in rather long. Add 911. Stir. Simmer. Season
to
your taste.
But they aren't arguing that all of the above are straw men--
ridiculous examples that
aren't even close to as obvious as 9/11's false flag. No reason to
argue that...
because it's so obvious.
No, sir, they're not ridiculous comparisons. Millions died in WWII, far
beyond the Iraq-9/11 events' death toll and if there is any truth to that
oft-stated suggestion that there was a President or someone in his
administration back then that helped let it happen, then it is not only a
good comparison of what 9-11 believers have said, but it reaches beyond the
tragedy in numbers. Kennedy's assassination was, likewise, was a devastating
psychic trauma to the nation and the conspiracy theorists tried to prove
there were variously the commies, CIA, Mafia, and even space aliens
involved. Your straw men argument collapses into the straw man argument of
9-11 conspiracy. If you or anyone has that ***** hard evidence, then act
upon it, and bring about a meaningful change for the better. If not, then
shut the hell up about it and accept it was a confluence of circumstances
outside any groups' direct control or design. Why don't you *grow up*, like
you instruct me or other posters you hold in disdain? Accept that ***** just
happens in a seemingly odd way at times....it's not every day airliners are
crashed into major cities, ya know. Anyone would reasonably expect there'd
be a lot of strange things about such extraordinary events.
Our own government had means,
motive, opportunity and the ability to cover it up as quickly as
possible. And if you'll
take a look at the 9/11 report and the way Guiliani handled things,
covering up
is exactly what they did. Bush and Cheney are those that benefited
the most.
Oh, fella, humans, especially politicians, can't keep such massive planning
like was required secret for years. There'd have to be hundreds of people
involved, and even 9-11 nutjobs have suggested parts of the ***** news
media were in on it. Politicians exploit such trajedies and so does the
media. What you more likely have is covering of their administration's
mistakes in handling it, security screw-ups, exploitation for personal gain,
greedy corporate subterfuge (for oil revenue), etc.
We don't need to theorize that 9-11 was necessary to have leaders lie or
manipulate. They've been doing it on their own for decades in this nation's
history. Such big traumatic events, though, help them out, usually, in what
they need to get done if they can convice the public of some fallacy they
promote.
And nobody wants to believe it. It's hard. It hurts.
Yet, when we see BBC report that a building
has fallen while it is still standing, when we see someone admit to
destroying
a building for which he had a huge insurance policy and which housed
SEC documentation on insider trading while the mainstream press
feeds the American people another story, when we look at all the
experts
who lose jobs immediatly after saying...wow, clearly a controlled
demoltion...
when we see how many hundreds of billions of dollars
Bush and Cheney got out of the deal...
Uh,huh...and so what? Is there an easier way to get a lot of money than kill
nearly 2900 people? Sure, there is. Controlled demolition on the opinions of
some firemen and architectural experts countered by other scientific
evidence and expert opinions. It's just inconclusive crapola, fella, unless
you want to believe in something sinister and clandestine so very much. And
apparently you, and a host of folks, really want to believe it. So believe.
Believe, baby, believe. And argue the opinions, testimonies, and evidence
forever more. LOL!
Time to get the word out. Time to deal with the ad hominem stuff from
smacked asses who think Penn and Teller
Smacked asses? Get your head outta your ***** and stop munchin' on your corn,
fella. Insulting, rage-filled lil' character, ain't ya? Mature,
intellectual? Contributing something of 'value' to the group here, are ya?
LOL!
are Rhodes scholars and from
the press and from all the people who haven't even really looked at
the evidence that couldn't be covered up. Time to deal with all the
straw men arguments like "the planes were holograms" or "aliens did
it."
Talking about it is the first step. Doing anything else, right now,
would amount
to suicide. There isn't enough support. But the number
people who understand is growing--despite how hard it is to accept
that the government officials that we voted into office are the real
terrorists.
S~
UH, huh....let's not take any action lest we suddenly are whisked away in
the dark of night by sinister forces trying to silence the truth. Sounds
like the many years of UFO conspiracy nutjobs I've encountered since the
60s -- the truth is always elusive, and when you think you've got some part
of it, secret agents are working to silence your truth-wagging tongue. LOL!
Bottom line: no one risks doing anything, the so-called 'evidence' never
changes anything for the better, and we just go on being paranoid and
waiting for the 'great day of deliverance'.
You grow up, fella...and don't tell me I'm a psycho and an idiot because
hypocrisy doesn't help your argument or attitude.
Doc :))~~
V: There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect
even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns
will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be
used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power.
Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the
enunciation of truth.
Hahahahah...supposed to be a lil' sarcastic entree, eh? I'm not laughing.
You're an *****, fella. A psycho. An immature fart. An arrogant acorn.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
16 Nov 2007 11:59:08 PM |
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On Nov 12, 4:34 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
<shasta...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
Sure it is...Once enough people take a close look and realize that it
isn't
fantasy at all. I'm entertained by dim-witted people like you
Now...here is where your post shows how 'mature' you are, fella. Note that I
didn't call you any names or make any derogatory references to your
intelligence or personality.
Sure you did.
My post was generally about the fallacies of
9-11 conspiracy believers.
Of which I am one, and which was obvious by my post.
It didn't get down to YOU as a personal swipe.
Sure you did, but your flagrant denial of the obvious and
feigned injury is duly noted.
Again, another direct swipe at me. Insulting arrogant ***** from your mind.
And you think you're not a troll? Aren't trolls often thought of as trying
to provoke posters with insults and insinuations? Sure, that's your own
definition of me as a supposed troll, ain't it? Move on to my next issue
with you pretty please...
So...you think the post about the similarity to 9/11 and the
suggestion
that the current administration might set up an attack on the fifth
fleet was an attempt to make you angry? Or an attempt to make you
think...a waste of time to be sure, but still...CLEARLY an attempt
to get people to see the possibility.
can look at the facts and realize
there was more to 9/11 than the flashy distraction.
Woohoo, is right, fella. Another direct slam at me. Insulting, arrogant
swipe. Move on to my next issue with you please....
If the shoe fits...
Attacks and provocations ON YOU? No sir, where have I done this to YOU in
the past?
You do it with everybody. It's your style on this forum, it's
obvious, and it's
pretty much ALL you do!
No where to be found in the archives. Look for it. I invite you.
You've repeatedly insulted me, called me a derogatory term, belittled my
contributions, while elevating your contributions as something far superior,
far more desired than what I present. I remind you that my original post to
you was severely questioning 9-11 conspiracy believers...and if you re-read
that post, you'll see that, at that point, I'm being polite but pointed in
my counter-argument. No personal attack on you, no name calling, no insults
to YOU. Now, maybe you should take a good look at your behaviour and wonder
why I then splattered you with insults and name calling in the my next post
as a reply to your personalized attack on me. HUH? But, there, you're
blaming me for getting personal and throwing derogatory stuff at ya, aren't
ya? Listen, mister, you deserve to get what you dish out, and certainly it
wasn't provoked by me to have you get personal like that. Maybe you should
carefully examine why you went off your handle and attacked me like that.
There's no maturity in that kind of response. It reads like a middle-school
kid blowing his lil' top. Don't you dare tell me I'm not mature, you lil'
*****, when your own behaviour makes you a disassociative psycho, a
hypocrite. Do you think you can take personal swipes at people, unprovoked,
and then not have a strong nasty response as their defense? *****.
unprovoked...lol
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, ich bin werklich uberkool.
Grow up, troll boy...HOW DARE YOU!! oh boy Im scared now.
You sure sound tough.
Yeah, you did and you started calling me derogatory names. I didn't do that
to you, fella.
Doc, you're a fake and a
troll.
More insults and put-down crap from ya.
which happen to be limited to empirically true statements that I
backed up...
Got a lot of rage in your *****,
haven't ya?
actually...yes. =) Yes I do. I hate fakes and trolls.
Normally, I won't waste time on you. But in this case, might as well
take the opportunity to demonstrate the flaws in the ad hominem
attacks.
Another put down. Ho...hum...
um, it's pretty much the same one.
Yep, I'm 'insulting' THEM, not YOU directly. I was talking about the
believers in such conspiracies. If I had wanted it to be about YOU, I'd done
exactly what you did to me -- attack you directly and call you names, insult
you, etc.
By names, do you mean fella, bubba, or one of the 15-20
unsubstantiated names
you called me?
No, sir, they're not ridiculous comparisons. Millions died in WWII,
Yes, they are. Thanks for the unnecessary history lesson, but
millions dying in WWII has 0 to do with a direct attack by
our government on our own soil while the best Air Force
in the world somehow failed to scramble a single jet
and protect the best protected building in the world
even after the twin towers had been hit. The comparison is
absurd. At least in this case, the strategic move to allow
the US to enter WWII isn't as commonly ridiculed as the
Kennedy conspiracy theories.
far
beyond the Iraq-9/11 events' death toll and if there is any truth to that
oft-stated suggestion that there was a President or someone in his
administration back then that helped let it happen, then it is not only a
good comparison of what 9-11 believers have said, but it reaches beyond the
tragedy in numbers.
Yeah, because if somehow the president didn't have Pearl Harbor
ready, he is responsible for the millions of deaths from WWII...wait,
no, that's complete horse ***** and a typical example of your weak
reasoning. Nobody accuses Roosevelt of planning Pearl Harbor.
it's not every day airliners are
crashed into major cities, ya know. Anyone would reasonably expect there'd
be a lot of strange things about such extraordinary events.
Yeah lot of strange things, like billions of dollars in insurance paid
out,
trillions of dollars appropriated from the US taxpayer, like...paper
Passports
of supposed terrorists falling to the streets of NYC
while black boxes can't be found...like...
steel being weakened to the point of collapse
by jet fuel and a few minutes of burning while other skyscrapers
even more poorly engineered burn for days on many more floors
and don't fall. Like...satelite evidence of molten steel in the
wreckage which could only be caused by thermite,
like having all that steel removed and taken out of
the country within days of the event effectively eliminating
a full investigation, like Marvin Bush's last day as CEO
of the security company that protected the WTC
being 9/11/2001, like anything
being able to get within miles of the Pentagon
(the best protected building in the world from air) without
even an alarm going off just after a terrorist attack by
aircraft,
like, an announcement by the BBC that building 7
had collapsed from structural damage 25 minutes
before it actually collapsed even though IT WAS
STILL STANDING right behind the reporter
making the announcement, like Larry Silverstein
admitting to giving the go ahead to demolish
the building because of his concern over loss
of life--this same guy asked for 7 billion
dollars in insurance money because the two
planes constituted 2 different terrorist attacks,
and like a paper by PNAC (populated by
many in the current administration) calling
for another pearl harbor.
all completely reasonable when airliners
fly into skyscrapers
It was a decent attempt at trolling...I give you....two stars.
Thanks for the forum/soap box.
Our own government had means,
motive, opportunity and the ability to cover it up as quickly as
possible. And if you'll
take a look at the 9/11 report and the way Guiliani handled things,
covering up
is exactly what they did. Bush and Cheney are those that benefited
the most.
Oh, fella, humans, especially politicians, can't keep such massive planning
like was required secret for years.
No there wouldnt. It would require a few people to place explosives
while bomb-sniffing dogs were not in the building,
and a few people dumb enough to trust our government, get on planes
and hijack them.
And it would take an order from the vice president (that day
for the first time ever in charge of NORAD) not to scramble
jets. That is all. It would be easy. But it would be very hard
to cover up--and that's where they blew it.
There'd have to be hundreds of people
involved, and even 9-11 nutjobs have suggested parts of the ***** news
media were in on it.
So Doc, are you a psychologist or a psychiatrist?
If you're bored, check out these vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mxFRigYD3s
note the big black arrows...they're pointing at building 7.
Try this one. You'll like this guy. You can call him a nutjob.
It'll make you feel better about being such a flagrant fake and troll.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGtOFudmHG8
Uh,huh...and so what? Is there an easier way to get a lot of money than kill
nearly 2900 people?
If you can figure out a faster way to make a couple billion dollars
meanwhile
giving yourself a reason to appropriate 1.3 trillion, and
assure a company for which you were CEO and of which
you still own boatloads of stock a no-bid contract to
fix all the damage you're about to cause to Iraq, I'd like to hear it.
LOL!
Yeah pretty funny that anyone believed the original story.
Get your head outta your ***** and stop munchin' on your corn,
fella. Insulting, rage-filled lil' character, ain't ya?
Now, there is a comedic opportunity here to point out an obvious
hypocrisy,
but I think that if I took such an easy opportunity, there would be,
from
here on out, a sort of...tinny, insincere sound to the laughter by
anyone bored enough to read your rants. It would, after all,
be like...beating a wheel-chair bound little girl with a
louisville slugger. So, I'll let it slide.
UH, huh....let's not take any action lest we suddenly are whisked away in
the dark of night by sinister forces trying to silence the truth. Sounds
like the many years of UFO conspiracy nutjobs I've encountered since the
60s --
the above is an example of a troll using a strawman argument.
Get your head outta your ***** and stop munchin' on your corn,
fella. Insulting, rage-filled lil' character, ain't ya?
You grow up, fella...and don't tell me I'm a psycho and an idiot because
hypocrisy doesn't help your argument or attitude.
It sure doesn't. LOL! Thanks for pointing that out...
Troll and fake are the terms I applied to you because you are both.
Fairly obvious by this point, I think.
V: There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect
even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns
will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be
used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power.
Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the
enunciation of truth.
Hahahahah...supposed to be a lil' sarcastic entree, eh? I'm not laughing.
You're an *****, fella. A psycho. An immature fart. An arrogant acorn.
No, this was an example of art immitating life. It's from a film
called
V for Vendetta, about a government that killed its own people in order
to take away civil liberties. It also shows the power of discourse.
Might wanna have a look sometime. But, if you choose not to,
any time you need a literary reference explained, feel free to ask.
S~
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet |
17 Nov 2007 09:44:18 AM |
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<shastaman@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:e7a19384-125d-46aa-bb53-75099e89d452@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 12, 4:34 am, "Docrodile" <swampth...@hellsbayou.net> wrote:
<shasta...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
Sure it is...Once enough people take a close look and realize that it
isn't
fantasy at all. I'm entertained by dim-witted people like you
Now...here is where your post shows how 'mature' you are, fella. Note
that I
didn't call you any names or make any derogatory references to your
intelligence or personality.
Sure you did.
No, I didn't. I was referring to my FIRST post, reposted below...see any
names I called you? Nope.
I was, as I said, talking about my disdain for consiracy theorists | | | | | | |
