In article <wAxwc.6028708$iA2.694180@news.easynews.com>,
Jean Guernon <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote:

Abdelkarim Benoit Evans a écrit:

In article <9ip2c0hfukldvidpli79pntiloa2itp8od@4ax.com>,
Think For Yourself <the_truth@reality.com> wrote:

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,snip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

John 1:21
1. Are you the Christ?
2. Are you Elias?
3. Are you the Prophet???

,,,,,,,,snip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Mohammed is the only prophet throughout history to be called just "The
Prophet"

"But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, this is evident
sorcery!" (Q 61.6).

Let's go over this one more time. Islam is the only religion in which:

Well, let's see what happens if we play this silly prooftexting game
your way.

1. The prophet has commanded followers to kill non-followers.

You must kill those who worship another god Exodus 22:20

Moses tells his men to kill all the males and non-virgin women, but to
keep all the virgins alive for themselves. Numbers 31:14-18

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than
your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship
differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own.
Deuteronomy.17:2-7

"Bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by Jesus] hither, and
slay them before me." Luke 19:22-27

Jeez, I can't believe you would use this to make believe that he speaks of
[those who preferred not to be ruled by Jesus]... This is a total lie. You
are
with bad faith like, like the other moron who pretends the prophet is not
about
John.

This was a parable, about the talents and some hypothetical monarch.

Excuse me if I was too subtle in my reply. As I said, I was citing all
those verses only to play the ridiculous proof-texting game that
detractors of Islam like to play--take verses in isolation, give them a
literal reading and then cite them as proof that Islam is a vicious,
violent religion. I certainly do not believe that Jesus (peace be on
him) intended that verse to be read as a literal call to kill unfaithful
servants (or unbelievers, to actualize the parable). I don't believe
that he intended for Christians to be armed vigilantes when he told his
disciples to arm themselves with swords--but there have been some
Christians who have taken it that way and Christian detractors could
take that verse out of context and claim that Jesus intended for all
Christians to carry weapons.

I won't comment on the outdated old testament rules, they have been made
irrelevant.

I certainly don't think a literal application of thise verses would be a
faithful following of scripture for today's Christians and I think it
would be inappropriate to cite them as proof that Christianity is a
violent religion (again, my intention was to shock you by applying the
same prooftexting approach to Christianity that others like to apply to
Islam, and I seem to have suceeded.)

But this in the new testament is an outrage. You need to correct
that in your own mind. You make it sounds as if there is such a scripture in
the
Quram. Where? The only ones I know about religious retribution concern people
who are raised all their lives with islam, them, they have to stick to it,
otherwise, indeed the Quram is not kind for them. But other people do not
have
to be at all subjected to any of that. This is a lie.

Here you are quite right. Non-Muslims do not have to fear for their
lives for the simple fact that they follow another religion. All the
proof texts for "kill them (unbelievers) wherever you find them" must be
understood in the context of legitimate self-defense against a war of
agression or occupation.

Me I's like you to tell me where you find any of this if there is any, not
take
out of context our own scriptures and say it's the same, the same AS WHAT????

Gee.

I'm glad your are so insensed. It is indeed a horrible calumny and a
gross misrepresentation of the truth to take verses from ANY scripture
and to apply them in such a way as to give them a meaning and scope that
they do do have "in situ".

The problem with your scripture is not the scriptures for believers in
something
else, it is that some Muslim who feel trapped by their own scriptures,
pretend
that everyone has to be bound by the same beliefs, which is NOT in the Quram.
yet it leads to war. Indeed the Quram tolerates others in their own
communities,
or territories.

You are indeed correct but why then are there so many, in this group and
among the general public, who are unable to make this distinction
between Islam and its misuse by terrroists?

But terrorists make things like this:
http://lexicorient.com/cgi-bin/eo-direct-frame.pl?http://i-cias.com/e.o/jihad.
htm

You tell me, please, where this is from? It is not from the Quram.

No, it certainly isn't and it is a gross extortion, rather polemical in
tone. The website that it is from describes itself thusly:

"LexicOrient (formerly known as CiAS) is a Norwegian media house aiming
at presenting a better image of North Africa and the Middle East than
what is often found in most Western medias ‹ without withholding the
negative truths.

"LexicOrient is not supported by any governments, organizations or
individuals. All material is based upon a moderate view of human rights
and political rights.

"CiAS was established in March 1996, and launched all its present major
services within the first 6 months: travel guides for North Africa,
encyclopaedia for North Africa and the Middle East and a online language
course for Arabic."

I suspect the article on jihad (and probably others too) is taken from
some old, exisiting Orientalist text now in the public domain. It is not
in accordance with the concensus of Muslim scholars.

One of the great problems with the wealth of information on the Internet
today is not the sheer volume (even though that can be overwhelming) but
the absence of ways to know what is good, accurate, useful and what is
bad, inaccurate and useless. Unfortunately, some people simply go
looking for information that reinforces their prejudices and never ask
the pertinent questions: who said this, when, why and so others agree or
disagree with this.

It is probably out of some fanatic's head. Yet, it is hammered in the head of
everyone in Orient as if it was from the islamic scriptures, and as long as
it
is considered as encyclopedic, and it is, there will be a world war to
implement
it. It is already too late. But I would like to know where this comes from.

(Along with the place about the number 1 above. I haven't seen that in the
Koran, but again, it's not my focus, I am an exegete who barely has time to
research the Christian prophecies, so maybe I missed it somehow. Where if in
the
Quram!? if not, then it is good to know where, it is like with the virgins,
as
if God would sacrifice 72 virgins so that serial murderers of innocents will
have sexual pleasures with 72 pre-teens for eternity. Where the hell would He
take them, first of all? They would have to boil a lot of them in Palestine
each
time they brainwash a moron to kill innocent civilians... yet, without this
lie,
it wouldn't work. But it is NOT in the Quram, so there is a way to explain to
people who are not brainwashed. But I digress. What about these two things
above?)

J.

When evil, misguided men want to further an agenda, they seek followers
and they must find "recrutement" techniques. When potential recruits are
intelligent, educated, older, more cosmopolitan men, they are recruited
on the basis of logic, politics and ideolgical necessity. When they are
young, less educated, provincial in outlook and living lives of poverty
and desperation, they are recruted using "pie in the sky in the next
life" arguments.

The Qur'an does not promise virgins (in the human sense of the word) to
anyone. After all, in heaven we will not have flesh and blood bodies
like we do now and our pleasure will come from closeness to God not from
sexual gratification. Yet, to a young, lonely, poor, man without hope, a
luxurient heaven full of sexual promise is a very enticing offer.

God tells us in the Qur'an that he will judge us according to our
heartfelt intentions, using his perfect mercy and his perfect justice.
Frankly I believe that the "sheiks" who pervert young men's minds and
seduce them with stories of vigins and such and who lead them to strap
on explosives and kill innocent people will likely find GodS judgment of
them much harsher than his judgment of those sheiks misguided disciples.

As I said, I was citing all
those verses only to play the ridiculous proof-texting game that
detractors of Islam like to play--take verses in isolation, give them a
literal reading and then cite them as proof that Islam is a vicious,

Jean Guernon <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message news:<wAxwc.6028708$iA2.694180@news.easynews.com>...

Abdelkarim Benoit Evans a écrit:

In article <9ip2c0hfukldvidpli79pntiloa2itp8od@4ax.com>,
Think For Yourself <the_truth@reality.com> wrote:

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,snip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

John 1:21
1. Are you the Christ?
2. Are you Elias?
3. Are you the Prophet???

,,,,,,,,snip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Mohammed is the only prophet throughout history to be called just "The
Prophet"

"But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, this is evident
sorcery!" (Q 61.6).

Let's go over this one more time. Islam is the only religion in which:

Well, let's see what happens if we play this silly prooftexting game
your way.

1. The prophet has commanded followers to kill non-followers.

You must kill those who worship another god Exodus 22:20

Moses tells his men to kill all the males and non-virgin women, but to
keep all the virgins alive for themselves. Numbers 31:14-18

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than
your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship
differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own.
Deuteronomy.17:2-7

"Bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by Jesus] hither, and
slay them before me." Luke 19:22-27

Jeez, I can't believe you would use this to make believe that he speaks of
[those who preferred not to be ruled by Jesus]... This is a total lie. You are
with bad faith like,

like the other moron who pretends the prophet is not about John.

If the THREE equals TWO, then THE PROPHET is John!!!

If the THREE equals TWO, then THE PROPHET is John!!!

In article <nLGwc.6265$fr7.1956@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>,
"Jeff" <joekingyou@pacbll.net> wrote:

Ah, my friend you just don't understand. Can you really believe the
passages you quoted below? We both know that the bible has been corrupted
over the years and is inaccurate, don't we? Of course, that's one of
Allah's tricks, isn't it. Discredit the bible (God's word) when it suits
Allah's purpose and use the bible when it suits another purpose. No, my
friend, the tactics of Allah haven't changed a bit since the Garden and
still works very well.

Please see my longer reply in another message.

Apparently you missed my introduction:

"Well, let's see what happens if we play this silly prooftexting game
your way."

I do not believe the passages I quoted are intended to mean that God
calls on Christians and Jews to go out an kill all the unbelievers. I
was simply trying to demonstrate what would happen if Muslims did the
kind of prooftexting that others do. You would be (and apparently are)
shocked and rightly so.

In particular, the parable of the talents obviously does not mean that
the "master" (God) commands his servants to round up and kill his
"unfaithul servants" (disbelievers). Yet, if we apply the same approach
to the Bible that many try to apply to the Qur'an, that's exactly the
interpretation that we would give.

It is wrong to approach the Bible in that way and it is wrong to
approach the Qur'an in that way.

Abdelkarim Benoit Evans

"Abdelkarim Benoit Evans" <kevans@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:kevans-7E2404.23485705062004@news.videotron.net...

In article <9ip2c0hfukldvidpli79pntiloa2itp8od@4ax.com>,
Think For Yourself <the_truth@reality.com> wrote:

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,snip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

John 1:21
1. Are you the Christ?
2. Are you Elias?
3. Are you the Prophet???

,,,,,,,,snip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Mohammed is the only prophet throughout history to be called just "The
Prophet"

"But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, this is evident
sorcery!" (Q 61.6).

Let's go over this one more time. Islam is the only religion in which:

Well, let's see what happens if we play this silly prooftexting game
your way.

1. The prophet has commanded followers to kill non-followers.

You must kill those who worship another god Exodus 22:20

Moses tells his men to kill all the males and non-virgin women, but to
keep all the virgins alive for themselves. Numbers 31:14-18

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than
your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship
differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own.
Deuteronomy.17:2-7

"Bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by Jesus] hither, and
slay them before me." Luke 19:22-27

2. The prophet has authorized followers to lie routinely to
non-followers about any- and everything.

3. Questioning the scripture gets the death penalty

As for your points 2 and 3, they are not found in any of the Abrahamic
scriptures (Torah, Evangel, Qur'an)

4. There has never been a reformation.

There have been reforem or renaissance movements (nahdah) in Islam but
there has never been an event like the Protestant reformation because
Islam is not a strictly organized body with a leader and direct
lieutenants like the Pope and his bishops were (and still are) in the
Catholic Church.

CurrentEvent a écrit:

"Jean Guernon" <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message
news:DVdwc.16824808$Id.2785751@news.easynews.com...

I was talking about your preposterous claims about the Prophet Mohammed which is
NOT at all referenced in the bible. BTW, you keep dreaming about that one.

JUST ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION:

"Have you ever tried to see if there was any verse in the quram that supported
these 3 wild claims:
namely, that the prophet Mohammed has commanded followers to kill non followers
(1),
that the prophet Mohammed has authorized followers to lie routinely to
non followers about any and everything (2)
and that questioning the scripture gets the death penalty (3).

I don't see that in there. Where do you come up with ***** like that?

CurrentEvent a écrit:

"Jean Guernon" <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message
news:DVdwc.16824808$Id.2785751@news.easynews.com...

Think For Yourself a écrit:

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,snip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

John 1:21
1. Are you the Christ?
2. Are you Elias?
3. Are you the Prophet???

,,,,,,,,snip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Mohammed is the only prophet throughout history to be called just "The
Prophet"

*****, they were asking him if he was the baptist, the prophet who

announced

Him (Jesus), in fact.

I don't know how many times I have to sent this message to go thought. On
more try!

OK Mr. Nostra dumb *****,

I do not have to be a biblical scholar to see that they are asking three
questions, not two. Don't you see that?

Moreover, they asked about titles, not names.

According to Christ, John the Baptist turned out to be Elias: "Elias is come
already, and they knew him not... 13 Then the disciples understood that he
spake unto them of John the Baptist. (Matthew 17:10-13)

Nah, NOT HERE. This was an allegory. Here it is concrete. The prophet was the
Baptist here. Period.

The Christ is Jesus.

But who is THE PROPHET? Is this a difficult question?

Yes, where in the Quran does it say all that?

It is a biblical prophecy. It is in the bible. As the case with any true
prophecy, people have to apply it and see a match. And this one, it matches
only mohammed.

Have your referenced your claims? Number 1,2,3 above, at least?

The above verse speaks only about the titles of the coming THREE messengers.
The first two have gone to Jesus and John the Baptist, while the third one
has gone to mohammed. As I said in the original post, he is the only prophet
throughout history to be called just 'THE PROPHET', whether he got that tile
in a miraculous way or a natural way, it doesn't really matter, he got it
and that is it.

Now if you like, you can br