Extremist right-wing loons on the loose. The more you dig into this smear
campaign on Kerry, the uglier these people appear.
J4N
Friday :: Aug 6, 2004
One Of Kerry's Accusers Retracts His Charges - Why Not, It's Regnery
Publishing
One of John Kerry's former commanders, whom the wrongly named Swift Boat
Veterans for Truth group uses in their attack against Kerry, has recanted
his affidavit wherein he asserted that Kerry did not deserve the Silver
Star. Former Lt. Commander George Elliott said yesterday that he "had made
a terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit in a rush to support the
anti-Kerry campaign led by a former Nixon White House operative and
others.
Elliott is quoted as saying that Kerry ''lied about what occurred in
Vietnam . . . for example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never
informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the
back."
The statement refers to an episode in which Kerry killed a Viet Cong
soldier who had been carrying a rocket launcher, part of a chain of events
that formed the basis of his Silver Star. Over time, some Kerry critics
have questioned whether the soldier posed a danger to Kerry's crew. Crew
members have said Kerry's actions saved their lives.
Yesterday, reached at his home, Elliott said he regretted signing the
affidavit and said he still thinks Kerry deserved the Silver Star.
''I still don't think he shot the guy in the back," Elliott said. ''It was
a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words.
I'm the one in trouble here."
Elliott said he was no under personal or political pressure to sign the
statement, but he did feel ''time pressure" from those involved in the
book. ''That's no excuse," Elliott said. ''I knew it was wrong . . . In a
hurry I signed it and faxed it back. That was a mistake."
The affidavit also contradicted earlier statements by Elliott, who came to
Boston during Kerry's 1996 Senate campaign to defend Kerry on similar
charges, saying that Kerry acted properly and deserved the Silver Star.
I have several questions here. First, it appears that these "affidavits"
were faxed to people, who were then asked to sign them in a hurry in
support of the anti-Kerry ad campaign and the soon-to-be-released book by
former Nixon operative John O'Neill. So how many of these other affidavits
were rush jobs of questionable veracity?
Second, note the publisher for O'Neill's book, Regnery, is the same
right-wing publisher of the likes of Ann Coulter and other right-wing
loons, a publisher known for poor editing and nonexistent fact checking,
who uses the Mighty Wurlitzer media outlets like Drudge and bulk buying
rather than individual sales to inflate their book sales totals. This has
already happened with the O'Neill book, which Amazon lists as Number One
already on the sales generated by Drudge's site. Note also that Regnery
refuses to release an advance copy of the book presumably so that
reviewers cannot challenge the veracity of the book's claims and undercut
initial sales by revealing that much of the book, like most if not all of
Regnery's catalogue, is utter propaganda.
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/002437.html#002437
=============================================
Swift Boat Vets chairman's evolving story about knowing Kerry in Vietnam
Retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, chairman and co-founder of Swift Boat Veterans
for Truth, has changed his story about whether or not he actually knew
Senator John Kerry in Vietnam.
May 6: "Hoffman acknowledged he had no first-hand knowledge to discredit
Kerry's claims to valor and said that although Kerry was under his
command, he really didn't know Kerry much personally." [Milwaukee Journal
Sentinel]
August 4: "'I knew him well enough to know him," Hoffman said. 'He's the
most vain individual I've ever met - aloof and arrogant.'" [Scripps Howard
News Service]
August 5: Hoffman said, "We were on the same operations, we were
operating within 25-50 yards of him all the time, and for them to suggest
we don't know John Kerry is pure old bull." [The New York Times]
August 5: In response to Senator John McCain's (R-AZ) denunciation of
the ad, Hoffman "said they respected McCain's 'right to express his
opinion and we hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy,
particularly since we served with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen.
McCain did not.'" [Associated Press]
August 5: Hoffman said, "I knew him well, because I operated very
closely with him and, uh, many of the operations, uh, most of the
operations were-were conducted with multiple boats" - a dramatic shift
from admitting no personal knowledge of Kerry three months earlier; it
went unchallenged by his host. [ABC Radio's Sean Hannity Show]
In the Swift Boat Veterans' ad, Hoffman states, "John Kerry has not been
honest." Well, he should know.
- K.B.
Posted to the web on Friday August 6, 2004 at 6:20 PM EST
http://mediamatters.org/items/200408060011
=============================================
MMFA investigates: Who is Jerome Corsi, co-author of Swift Boat Vets
attack book?
While much has been written about the identity and history of John E.
O'Neill -- one of the authors of the forthcoming Regnery book Unfit for
Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry (whose links in
the GOP go back to his days as "protégé of Nixon-era dirty trickster
Charles Colson") -- little has been said about his co-author, Jerome R.
Corsi, PhD.
. Corsi on Islam: "a worthless, dangerous Satanic religion"
. Corsi on Catholicism: "Boy buggering in both Islam and Catholicism is
okay with the Pope as long as it isn't reported by the liberal press"
. Corsi on Muslims: "RAGHEADS are Boy-Bumpers as clearly as they are
Women-Haters -- it all goes together"
. Corsi on "John F*ing Commie Kerry": "After he married TerRAHsa, didn't
John Kerry begin practicing Judiasm? He also has paternal grandparents
that were Jewish. What religion is John Kerry?"
. Corsi on Senator "FAT HOG" Clinton: "Anybody ask why HELLary couldn't
keep BJ Bill satisfied? Not lesbo or anything, is she?"
Unfit for Command has received wide media coverage recently, in part
because of hype on The Drudge Report and the website Human Events Online,
which is offering a sample chapter via e-mail, and in part as a result of
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's new attack ad on Kerry's service in
Vietnam. The book has skyrocketed to the top of the Amazon.com "Top
Sellers" list, as of August 6.
Corsi received his PhD in political science from Harvard University in
1972; his dissertation was titled Prior Restraint, Prior Punishment, and
Political Dissent; a Moral and Legal Evaluation. Previously, he
co-authored a report on the 1967 riots in Cleveland, titled "Shoot-out in
Cleveland: Black Militants and the Police," published in 1968 by the
National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence.
In addition to Unfit for Command, Corsi has written books on a variety of
subjects, and is currently the vice president of development and senior
editor of U.S. Financial Marketing Group. Recently, he has been
contributing articles to the website wintersoldier.com on the subject of
Senator John Kerry's record as an anti-war activist following his service
in the Vietnam War.
In this series of articles, Corsi has accused Kerry of "violating the
legal provision against negotiating with foreign powers (18 U.S.C. 953)
and the constitutional prohibition against giving support to our nation's
enemies during wartime (Article III, Section 3)"; asserted that Kerry's
actions as an anti-war activist amounted to treason; and claimed that
"Kerry and the VVAW consistently coordinated their efforts with
Communists." Corsi asserted that, in 1971, Kerry's anti-war activism
amounted to a proclamation by him that "Communists were right in
maintaining that American values were corrupt and that the only solution
was for America to capitulate so Communism could continue to spread." As
Media Matters for America has noted, Kerry was quoted expressing exactly
the opposite sentiment in a December 12, 1971, Boston Globe article: "I
don't like Communists," Kerry said. "In fact, I hate them. I hate all
totalitarians. I'm totally dedicated to representative, pluralistic, free
democracy."
On August 6, Salon.com's Joe Conason documented links between Swift Boat
Veterans for Truth and the conservative online forum www.FreeRepublic.com.
Conason noted that the designer of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth
website is Robert A. Hahn, a director of the Free Republic Network, a
conservative activist organization affiliated with FreeRepublic.com. Scott
Swett, who is listed as the webmaster of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth
website, swiftvets.com, also appeared on FOX News Channel host Sean
Hannity's August 5 radio show to discuss the group. Swett posts frequently
to FreeRepublic.com, using the pseudonym "Interesting Times," and is also
a director of the Free Republic Network. The wintersoldier.com website to
which Swett has contributed articles is a project of the Free Republic
Network.
Corsi is also a frequent participant in FreeRepublic.com's online forums,
posting under the pseudonym "jrlc" since 2001. (Click here to read a full
set of Corsi's posts; click here to read the post in which "jrlc" admits
to being Jerome Corsi.)
On FreeRepublic.com, Corsi has, among other things, said that "ragheads"
are "boy buggers"; referred to "John F*ing Kerry"; called Senator Hillary
Clinton a "Fat Hog"; referred to her daughter as "Chubby Chelsie" Clinton;
referred to Janet Reno as "Janet Rhino"; called Katie Couric "Little Katie
Communist"; suggested Kerry was "practicing Judaism"; and expressed the
wish that a small plane that had crashed into a building in Los Angeles
had instead crashed into the set of NBC'S The West Wing, thereby killing
actor Martin Sheen.
Following are some examples. [Spelling and punctuation are Corsi's own.]
On Catholics and the Pope
CORSI: Maybe while he's there he can tell the UN what he's going to do
about the sexual crimes committed by "priests" in his "Church" during his
tenure. Or, maybe that's the connection -- boy buggering in both Islam and
Catholicism is okay with the Pope as long as it isn't reported by the
liberal press. (03/03/2003)
CORSI: So this is what the last days of the Catholic Church are going to
look like. Buggering boys undermines the moral base and the laywers rip
the gold off the Vatican altars. We may get one more Pope, when this
senile one dies, but that's probably about it. (12/16/2002)
On Islam and Arabs
CORSI: Let's see exactly why it isn't the case that Islam is a worthless,
dangerous Satanic religion? Where's the proof to the contrary?
(04/24/2004)
CORSI: Islam is like a virus -- it affects the mind -- maybe even better
as an analogy -- it is a cancer that destroys the body it infects... No
doctor would hesitate to eliminate cancer cells from the body. (11/26/02)
CORSI: Islam is a peaceful religion as long as the women are beaten, the
boys buggered, and the infidels killed. (11/22/2002)
CORSI: How's this as an analogy -- the Koran is simply the "software" for
producing deviant cancer cell political behavior and violence in human
beings. (02/15/2002)
CORSI: Think the liberal press will ever let out that these 2 were
lovers -- typical Islamic boy-buggering -- older man, younger man -- black
Muslims? I doubt it. Not a pretty picture, but one certain to be hidden by
PC media. (11/08/2002)
CORSI: Isn't the Democratic Party the official SODOMIZER PROTECTION
ASSOCIATION of AMERICA -- oh, I forgot, it was just an accident that
Clintoon's first act in office was to promote "gays in the military."
RAGHEADS are Boy-Bumpers as clearly as they are Women-Haters -- it all
goes together. (11/18/2001)
On Senator John Kerry
CORSI: First let's undermine the US in Vietnam. Then we can go for gay
marriage. When you get to be Pres. JFK-lite, there will be no end to how
much of America we can destroy. (05/17/2004)
CORSI: Just don't let anybody put a tablet with the Ten Commandments in
front of the school where that girl wants to wear a Muslim scarf -- OH,
No --- then the RATS would complain. Anti-Christian, Anti-American -- just
like their Presidential Candidate -- Jean Francois Kerrie. (03/31/2004)
CORSI: After he married TerRAHsa, didn't John Kerry begin practicing
Judiasm? He also has paternal gradparents that were Jewish. What religion
is John Kerry? (03/04/2004)
CORSI: Kerry has a long history of Communist supporters. (03/12/2004)
CORSI: Kerry offers a clear choice. Anti-American hatred. (02/08/2004)
CORSI: John F*ing Commie Kerry and Commie Ted [Kennedy] discuss their plan
to hand America over to our nation's enemies. (02/04/2004)
On former President Bill Clinton
CORSI: When is this guy going to admit he's simply an anti-American
communist? Won't he and his leftist wife simply go away???? Enough
already. (02/24/2002)
CORSI: Hey, Bill, didn't you steal enough when you had the chance?
(02/15/2002)
CORSI: Clinton doesn't get it. Afganistan, and other Moslim countries, are
not poor because they lack money. The culture itself is anti-modern. But
then, maybe Slick did get it and he just wants to create another bork
barrel from which he and his wife can draw slop. (02/15/2002)
CORSI: Clinton was more interested in gays in the military than going
after OBL. Clinton had Janet Rhino pushing the FBI to deport a child to
Castro's nondemocratic Cuba, not searching out OBL sleepers in the USA.
Clinton was too busy getting BJs in the Oval Office to do more than Wag
the Dog after the Cole was hit. (05/16/2002)
On Senator Hillary Clinton
CORSI: HELL-ary loves the Arabs so much (kiss, kiss Mrs. Arab*RAT) --
wonder how she would look in a Burkha? (05/21/2002)
CORSI: Mullah Ali'Gore-ah is very proud of his new Bin Laden beard and he
hopes others in the Democratic Party will follow his lead. Hell-ary is
disappointed she cannot grow a beard, but her press secretary reminds us
she can still enroll in flight school. (01/07/02)
CORSI: Let the FAT HOG run!!! [regarding a possible presidential bid]
(08/30/2003)
CORSI: Hellary should resign and go away. What ever happened to the people
she ran over with her car at Westchester Airport? Can't anybody sue this
b*tch? (11/17/2002)
CORSI: Anybody ask why HELLary couldn't keep BJ Bill satisfied? Not lesbo
or anything, is she? (06/08/2003)
On Chelsea Clinton
CORSI: According to Talk Magazine, Chubby Chelsea had a very great
adventure on 9/11 in NYC and Hell-ary had the details wrong -- oh, it was
terrible. (12/07/2001)
CORSI: Did the Journalist see Chubbie Chelsea among the wives. Little
Katie Communist [Katie Couric] on the NBC Today show interviewed Hillary
this morning and mom is worried sick about Chelsea. She was last seen in
Kandahar at a Starbucks. But now, as Little Katie Communist sighed, "Who
Knows?" Even British disinformation planted reports such as this grocery
crap will be useful. Anyone with information about Chubbie Chelsea's
whereabouts should post it now. Mom wants to know her daughter is out of
harms way. Mom also wants to be at the center of the story. (11/29/2001)
CORSI: But the real question is: WHERE IS CHUBBIE CHELSEA? Is she in Kabul
in danger, looking for a Starbucks? Waldo wants to know. Please, Little
Katie Communist, HELP US FIND CHELSEA. THE SITUATION MAY BE URGENT.
(11/29/2001)
CORSI: HILLARY SAYS CHELSEA IS MISSING AND JANET RHINO DOESN'T KNOW WHERE
SHE IS? (11/28/2001)
On former Vice President Al Gore
CORSI: Gore isn't available for television. He is growing his regulation
length Bin Laden beard. Mullah Ali'Gore-ah, as he now wishes to be called,
is focused on his new career as a pilot. "Want to fly like bird," he says
after his stint as a professor at Columbia. "No need to learn take-off or
landing, just soar like bird and look at buildings." As to Florida,
Mulllah Gore-ah says, "No big buildings," dismissing the importance of the
state to his future plans." (12/15/2001)
On the Media
CORSI: Time to FREEP Chris Matthews of MSNBC. MSNBC is beginning to stand
for "More Sh*t, Nothing But Communism." (05/16/2002)
CORSI: I didn't realize Little Katie Communist of the NBC Today Show knew
how to hack a website. Finally something impressive from the little wimp.
[responding to news that USA Today's website had been hacked and that the
hackers were mocking President George W. Bush's Christianity] (07/12/2002)
CORSI: COMMUNISM -- it's simple NBC = NOTHING BUT COMMUNISM. (04/19/2004)
CORSI: Susan Estrogen -- even the voice grates. But then with supporters
like her and Ted Kennedy, who needs enemies. Let Susan BLAH BLAH
screatch -- only Chrissy Matthews whines better. (04/13/2004)
Assorted
CORSI: Perfect Liberal -- lesbian, self-absorbed, hates America, anxious
to impose her values on everybody else. [on Martina Navratilova]
(06/26/2002)
CORSI: And now we get Pooh-LEFTY pushed on us by the RATS as Minority
Leader in the House -- here come the SanFrancisco liberals -- hope the
RATS go back to focusing the debate on gay marriages and other pro-choice
topics close to Pelosi's heart. (11/18/2002)
CORSI: Too bad the plane didn't crash into the TV set of the NBC show "THE
LEFT WING" -- especially when Martin Sheen was "acting." (06/07/2003)
- D.B.B.
Posted to the web on Friday August 6, 2004 at 6:20 PM EST
http://mediamatters.org/items/200408060010
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: The Swiftees, the Shiftees, or the Shitties? |
07 Aug 2004 07:37:08 AM |
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In article <cf23ps02b2t@enews1.newsguy.com>, "jews4nostradamus" <francm@mail.com> wrote:
Extremist right-wing loons on the loose. The more you dig into this smear
campaign on Kerry, the uglier these people appear.
Yes, Bush is only shooting himself in the foot with this type of tactic.
Woods
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| User: "jews4nostradamus" |
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| Title: Re: The Swiftees, the Shiftees, or the Shitties? |
07 Aug 2004 09:19:51 AM |
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"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:U14Rc.94393$yd5.23926@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
In article <cf23ps02b2t@enews1.newsguy.com>, "jews4nostradamus"
<francm@mail.com> wrote:
Extremist right-wing loons on the loose. The more you dig into this
smear
campaign on Kerry, the uglier these people appear.
Yes, Bush is only shooting himself in the foot with this type of tactic.
Woods
This is going to be a hard, bitter campaign and I think world events,
especially in the Mideast, will help determine the outcome. All my life,
as I grew up through the decades, I was always told and always believed
conservatives, true conservatives, would not be engaged in tearing down a
war veteran's record to hold onto or gain office.
If those who support Bush cannot, or will not return to debating the
issues, promoting his achievements domestically (few to crow about), and
get away from this dirty tactic, they'll likely lose the election.
There's a seeming obsessional feature in this administration that keeps
popping up. They can't get away from grinding on something that would be
better left (for them) alone. I notice that they continue to bring up the
alleged destruction of the Lincoln room, Oval Office, etc. by the
departing Clintonites, even as late as earlier this year. And, if Kerry
isn't getting hammered, they go back to Clinton or his staff and hammer
them. It's like a mercurial obsession and intense hatred, or spitefulness,
that just keeps permeating Bush and his gang.
J4N
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: The Swiftees, the Shiftees, or the Shitties? |
07 Aug 2004 07:44:57 AM |
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"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:U14Rc.94393$yd5.23926@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
In article <cf23ps02b2t@enews1.newsguy.com>, "jews4nostradamus"
<francm@mail.com> wrote:
Extremist right-wing loons on the loose. The more you dig into this smear
campaign on Kerry, the uglier these people appear.
Yes, Bush is only shooting himself in the foot with this type of tactic.
Woods
Tell ya what, I had a chance to listen to John Kerry speak on C-Span day
before yesterday and was greatly impressed. He was speaking/answering
questions before a group of journalists.
Not that I'd end up voting for him or supporting him or anything. Haven't
found anyone perfect enough for that yet. :-)
But the guy is extremely articulate, well prepared, even passionate at
times. Huge difference between him and GWB in these regards. Wouldn't
surprise me at all if once people get a chance to hear him, get past all the
political spin he'll end up with looking like the best man to most people.
Too bad he's still just an elitist Bonesman. :-)
.
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| User: "jews4nostradamus" |
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| Title: Re: The Swiftees, the Shiftees, or the Shitties? |
07 Aug 2004 09:09:16 AM |
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" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote in message
news:q5edna55mZ8HUoncRVn-ig@locallink.net...
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:U14Rc.94393$yd5.23926@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
In article <cf23ps02b2t@enews1.newsguy.com>, "jews4nostradamus"
<francm@mail.com> wrote:
Extremist right-wing loons on the loose. The more you dig into this
smear
campaign on Kerry, the uglier these people appear.
Yes, Bush is only shooting himself in the foot with this type of
tactic.
Woods
Tell ya what, I had a chance to listen to John Kerry speak on C-Span day
before yesterday and was greatly impressed. He was speaking/answering
questions before a group of journalists.
Not that I'd end up voting for him or supporting him or anything.
Haven't
found anyone perfect enough for that yet. :-)
But the guy is extremely articulate, well prepared, even passionate at
times. Huge difference between him and GWB in these regards. Wouldn't
surprise me at all if once people get a chance to hear him, get past all
the
political spin he'll end up with looking like the best man to most
people.
Too bad he's still just an elitist Bonesman. :-)
Yeah, he is a Skull & Bones *lifetime* member, as is Bush. I think what we
have here is a man who is flawed in some ways, like all of us are, but
that given enough exposure in public discussion, I think folks will begin
to see the greater contrast between the two...that Kerry is more warm and
friendly, intelligent, rational and thoughtful on the issues. But, I think
he can be tough and rough if he needs to be, in protection of himself,
policies, this nation, et al (except Teresa--she can defend herself easily
enough). No one really knows how many campaign promises will be kept, even
Kerry can't say for sure. It's the usual.
I want this war to end, this preemptive offensive policy (that was changed
by Bush) to return to its past state, and a national healthcare overhaul
(top to bottom). I want to see the Patriot Act modified. The environment
and economy are very important, too, and I can't see where Bush/Cheney
have improved the natural enviroment, nor done more to ease unemployment,
small business failures, etc.
In the heated vortex of a neck-and-neck campaign, the fast swirl of
personal attacks, propanganda, dirty tricks, et al, often makes it
difficult to step back, as you suggest, and see the candidates more
honestly and clearly.
I'm not a Kerry cheerleader because I think I would've liked another
candidate. My main gripe with him is his Mideast policy of wanting to keep
troops there as long as it takes to build a strong enough in-house
military and government, or gradually internationalizing. I feel that this
war was started illegally and without reason for our self defense, and is
therefore a policy disaster of great magnitude. Impeachable magnitude,
jail time magnitude to be, uh, blunt. It's not going to be easy to sell
them on democracy when it was "introduced" in the manner it was. Too many
factional and fanatical crosscurrents going there, with the USA and the
West eyeing the oil resources.
If Bush wins, it'll make Watergate look like a Sunday choir boy picnic.
And if he wins, I think ultimately we, and the rest of this world, is
going to lose, big time. I'm thinking world war, economic ruin and a
police state.
I usually vote Green, but this year I'm genuinely worried about that
sociopath in office and his policies.
J4N
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: The Swiftees, the Shiftees, or the Shitties? |
07 Aug 2004 11:22:51 AM |
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"jews4nostradamus" <francm@mail.com> wrote in message
news:cf2nqg02vnu@enews1.newsguy.com...
" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote in message
news:q5edna55mZ8HUoncRVn-ig@locallink.net...
Too bad he's still just an elitist Bonesman. :-)
Yeah, he is a Skull & Bones *lifetime* member, as is Bush. I think what we
have here is a man who is flawed in some ways, like all of us are, but
that given enough exposure in public discussion, I think folks will begin
to see the greater contrast between the two...that Kerry is more warm and
friendly, intelligent, rational and thoughtful on the issues. But, I think
he can be tough and rough if he needs to be, in protection of himself,
policies, this nation, et al (except Teresa--she can defend herself easily
enough). No one really knows how many campaign promises will be kept, even
Kerry can't say for sure. It's the usual.
I want this war to end, this preemptive offensive policy (that was changed
by Bush) to return to its past state, and a national healthcare overhaul
(top to bottom). I want to see the Patriot Act modified. The environment
and economy are very important, too, and I can't see where Bush/Cheney
have improved the natural enviroment, nor done more to ease unemployment,
small business failures, etc.
In the heated vortex of a neck-and-neck campaign, the fast swirl of
personal attacks, propanganda, dirty tricks, et al, often makes it
difficult to step back, as you suggest, and see the candidates more
honestly and clearly.
I'm not a Kerry cheerleader because I think I would've liked another
candidate. My main gripe with him is his Mideast policy of wanting to keep
troops there as long as it takes to build a strong enough in-house
military and government, or gradually internationalizing.
I'm with you 100% at this point. I believe, tho, we'll be keeping our
troops there until they're driven out regardless of who wins the election.
Stability there is "most important" and I'm sure it's perceived that the
presence of US forces there could intimidate regional governments into
toeing the line.
I'm wondering if this is where being a "Bonesman" comes into play. As far
as "the powers that be" are concerned it may not matter if Bush or Kerry
wins. The objective was accomplished. As long as there is stability in
Iraq and the oil is flowing out of there at it's maximum capacity who cares
who runs the governmental subsidiary as long as he's "one of us". "Now that
we're in there how can we possibly just turn and walk away?" It's going to
make sense to everyone that we can't let Iraq descend into "chaos".
We'll have the fuel to run the economic engine for years to come, well after
the Caspian Basin reserves come online. Regardless of who wins the election
we all "win" because the lifeblood of our Western lifestyle has been made
safe.
"We" all may not include those that live a middle Eastern lifestyle. If it
takes another tyrant to eventually preserve stability in Iraq then "so be
it". There's never been anything altruistic about American foreign policy.
Terror regimes are fine as long as they're our terror regimes. "Whatever it
takes". "Just win, baby".
I feel that this
war was started illegally and without reason for our self defense, and is
therefore a policy disaster of great magnitude. Impeachable magnitude,
jail time magnitude to be, uh, blunt. It's not going to be easy to sell
them on democracy when it was "introduced" in the manner it was. Too many
factional and fanatical crosscurrents going there, with the USA and the
West eyeing the oil resources.
If Bush wins, it'll make Watergate look like a Sunday choir boy picnic.
And if he wins, I think ultimately we, and the rest of this world, is
going to lose, big time. I'm thinking world war, economic ruin and a
police state.
I think you're pretty much right again. It's hard tho to know exactly how
the goals of "Corporatism" (read fascism) will ultimately unfold and
manifest.
I usually vote Green, but this year I'm genuinely worried about that
sociopath in office and his policies.
J4N
By decision time I'm sure most of Nader's supporters are going to turn to
Kerry for the same reasons you express. Too many events ahead to
accurately predict how thing will turn out.
regards..................JL
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| User: "Cuan" |
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| Title: Re: The Swiftees, the Shiftees, or the Shitties? |
10 Aug 2004 04:30:47 AM |
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On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 07:09:16 -0700, "jews4nostradamus"
<francm@mail.com> wrote:
" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote in message
news:q5edna55mZ8HUoncRVn-ig@locallink.net...
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:U14Rc.94393$yd5.23926@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
In article <cf23ps02b2t@enews1.newsguy.com>, "jews4nostradamus"
<francm@mail.com> wrote:
Extremist right-wing loons on the loose. The more you dig into this
smear
campaign on Kerry, the uglier these people appear.
Yes, Bush is only shooting himself in the foot with this type of
tactic.
Woods
Tell ya what, I had a chance to listen to John Kerry speak on C-Span day
before yesterday and was greatly impressed. He was speaking/answering
questions before a group of journalists.
Not that I'd end up voting for him or supporting him or anything.
Haven't
found anyone perfect enough for that yet. :-)
But the guy is extremely articulate, well prepared, even passionate at
times. Huge difference between him and GWB in these regards. Wouldn't
surprise me at all if once people get a chance to hear him, get past all
the
political spin he'll end up with looking like the best man to most
people.
Too bad he's still just an elitist Bonesman. :-)
Yeah, he is a Skull & Bones *lifetime* member, as is Bush. I think what we
have here is a man who is flawed in some ways, like all of us are, but
that given enough exposure in public discussion, I think folks will begin
to see the greater contrast between the two...that Kerry is more warm and
friendly, intelligent, rational and thoughtful on the issues. But, I think
he can be tough and rough if he needs to be, in protection of himself,
policies, this nation, et al (except Teresa--she can defend herself easily
enough). No one really knows how many campaign promises will be kept, even
Kerry can't say for sure. It's the usual.
I want this war to end, this preemptive offensive policy (that was changed
by Bush) to return to its past state, and a national healthcare overhaul
(top to bottom). I want to see the Patriot Act modified. The environment
and economy are very important, too, and I can't see where Bush/Cheney
have improved the natural enviroment, nor done more to ease unemployment,
small business failures, etc.
In the heated vortex of a neck-and-neck campaign, the fast swirl of
personal attacks, propanganda, dirty tricks, et al, often makes it
difficult to step back, as you suggest, and see the candidates more
honestly and clearly.
I'm not a Kerry cheerleader because I think I would've liked another
candidate. My main gripe with him is his Mideast policy of wanting to keep
troops there as long as it takes to build a strong enough in-house
military and government, or gradually internationalizing. I feel that this
war was started illegally and without reason for our self defense, and is
therefore a policy disaster of great magnitude. Impeachable magnitude,
jail time magnitude to be, uh, blunt. It's not going to be easy to sell
them on democracy when it was "introduced" in the manner it was. Too many
factional and fanatical crosscurrents going there, with the USA and the
West eyeing the oil resources.
If Bush wins, it'll make Watergate look like a Sunday choir boy picnic.
And if he wins, I think ultimately we, and the rest of this world, is
going to lose, big time. I'm thinking world war, economic ruin and a
police state.
Makes no real difference. A Skull n' Bones is still a Skull n' Bones.
Remember I wrote about the one that waits in the wings possibly being
worse than the one standing at the podium? I won't hold my breath. I
made that mistake when I supported Bush over Gore. Kerry might
improve on the US's present image, but I doubt he'll make any major
policy changes which can't be held up to the light in the same manner
as Bush's. I don't trust this Masonic bunch one iota - Rep. or Dem.
But, I'll concede that Bush *has* to go.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: The Swiftees, the Shiftees, or the Shitties? |
07 Aug 2004 10:40:48 AM |
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In article <q5edna55mZ8HUoncRVn-ig@locallink.net>, " John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:U14Rc.94393$yd5.23926@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
In article <cf23ps02b2t@enews1.newsguy.com>, "jews4nostradamus"
<francm@mail.com> wrote:
Extremist right-wing loons on the loose. The more you dig into this smear
campaign on Kerry, the uglier these people appear.
Yes, Bush is only shooting himself in the foot with this type of tactic.
Woods
Tell ya what, I had a chance to listen to John Kerry speak on C-Span day
before yesterday and was greatly impressed. He was speaking/answering
questions before a group of journalists.
Not that I'd end up voting for him or supporting him or anything. Haven't
found anyone perfect enough for that yet. :-)
But the guy is extremely articulate, well prepared, even passionate at
times. Huge difference between him and GWB in these regards. Wouldn't
surprise me at all if once people get a chance to hear him, get past all the
political spin he'll end up with looking like the best man to most people.
Too bad he's still just an elitist Bonesman. :-)
Well, better a first term elitist Bonesman than 4 years of a lame duck elitist
bonesman who has already demonstrated an appalling lack of responsibility to the
American public, the military, and anyone outside his "base".
Woods
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: The Swiftees, the Shiftees, or the Shitties? |
07 Aug 2004 10:45:50 AM |
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"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:4K6Rc.117995$bp1.43469@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
In article <q5edna55mZ8HUoncRVn-ig@locallink.net>, " John F Lemke"
<jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote:
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:U14Rc.94393$yd5.23926@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
In article <cf23ps02b2t@enews1.newsguy.com>, "jews4nostradamus"
<francm@mail.com> wrote:
Extremist right-wing loons on the loose. The more you dig into this
smear
campaign on Kerry, the uglier these people appear.
Yes, Bush is only shooting himself in the foot with this type of
tactic.
Woods
Tell ya what, I had a chance to listen to John Kerry speak on C-Span day
before yesterday and was greatly impressed. He was speaking/answering
questions before a group of journalists.
Not that I'd end up voting for him or supporting him or anything.
Haven't
found anyone perfect enough for that yet. :-)
But the guy is extremely articulate, well prepared, even passionate at
times. Huge difference between him and GWB in these regards. Wouldn't
surprise me at all if once people get a chance to hear him, get past all
the
political spin he'll end up with looking like the best man to most
people.
Too bad he's still just an elitist Bonesman. :-)
Well, better a first term elitist Bonesman than 4 years of a lame duck
elitist
bonesman who has already demonstrated an appalling lack of responsibility
to the
American public, the military, and anyone outside his "base".
Woods
Given the clearer choices now it's now getting to where I can't argue
passionately against that. :-)
.
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| User: "dreamwalker" |
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| Title: Re: The Swiftees, the Shiftees, or the Shitties? |
08 Aug 2004 12:46:35 PM |
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The guys that Kerry marches up on to the stage to exploit are losers. They're no bodies who Kerry
dug up from the gutter for his political purposes. I wonder what's in it for them? The Swifties on
the other hand, are business men and respected members of their communities. All have been
successful. This simply shows more of Hairy Kerry's exploitive character. The American people will
never fall for his smoke and mirror tactics.
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| User: "Cuan" |
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| Title: Re: The Swiftees, the Shiftees, or the Shitties? |
10 Aug 2004 04:36:29 AM |
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On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 12:46:35 -0500, "dreamwalker"
<backfromthe@dead.net> wrote:
The guys that Kerry marches up on to the stage to exploit are losers. They're no bodies who Kerry
dug up from the gutter for his political purposes. I wonder what's in it for them? The Swifties on
the other hand, are business men and respected members of their communities. All have been
Businessmen? Well, yes. I can certainly see why they appear credible
on Bush's side.
successful. This simply shows more of Hairy Kerry's exploitive character. The American people will
never fall for his smoke and mirror tactics.
Well they fell for Bush's, didn't they?
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