Next time someone drives an aeroplane into one of your buildings or
attacks in any other way don't whinge asking "why us, what did we ever
do to them" like you did after sept. 2001. This is, and always has
been, American foreign policy. This is why people attack you. Your
govt. is inviting attacks.
WH
Bush set to launch CIA ops to topple Iran mullahs
Tools
Print Email Search
Search
Go Sunday May 27 2007
TIM SHIPMAN
in WASHINGTON
PRESIDENT GEORGE W Bush has given the CIA approval to launch covert
"black" operations to achieve regime change in Iran, intelligence
sources have revealed.
Mr Bush has signed an official document endorsing CIA plans for a
propaganda and disinformation campaign intended to destabilise, and
eventually topple, the theocratic rule of the mullahs.
Under the plan, pressure will be brought to bear on the Iranian
economy by manipulating the country's currency and international
financial transactions. Details have also emerged of a covert scheme
to sabotage the Iranian nuclear programme, which United Nations
nuclear watchdogs said last week could lead to a bomb within three
years.
Security officials in Washington have disclosed that Tehran has been
sold defective parts on the black market in a bid to delay and disrupt
its uranium enrichment programme, the precursor to building a nuclear
weapon.
A security source said the presidential directive, known as a "non-
lethal presidential finding", would give the CIA the right to collect
intelligence on home soil, an area that is usually the preserve of the
FBI, from the many Iranian exiles and emigres within the US.
"Iranians in America have links with their families at home, and they
are a good two-way source of information," he said.
The CIA will also be allowed to supply communications equipment which
would enable opposition groups in Iran to work together and bypass
internet censorship by the clerical regime.
The plans, which significantly increase American pressure on Iran,
were leaked just days before a meeting in Iraq tomorrow between the US
ambassador, Ryan Crocker, and his Iranian counterpart.
Tensions were ramped up last week when Iran seized what the US regards
as a fourth "hostage". Three academics who hold dual Iranian-American
citizenship are being held, accused of working to undermine the
Iranian government or of spying. An Iranian-American reporter with
Radio Free Europe, who was visiting Iran, has had her passport seized.
Another Iranian American, businessman Ali Shakeri, was believed to
have been detained as he tried to leave Tehran last week. The US
responded with a show of force by the Navy, sending nine warships,
including two aircraft carriers, into the Persian Gulf.
Authorisation of the new CIA mission, which will not be allowed to use
lethal force, appears to suggest that Mr Bush has, for the time being,
ruled out military action.
Bruce Riedel, until six months ago the senior CIA official who dealt
with Iran, said: "I think they have concluded that a military strike
has more downsides than upsides." However, the CIA is giving arms-
length support, supplying money and weapons, to an Iranian militant
group, Jundullah, which has conducted raids into Iran from bases in
Pakistan.
Iranian officials say they captured 10 members of Jundullah last
weekend, carrying $500,000 in cash along with "maps of sensitive
areas" and "modern spy equipment".
The White House National Security Council and CIA refused to comment
on intelligence matters.
=A9 Telegraph
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
27 May 2007 10:19:27 AM |
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On 27 May, 13:07, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Next time someone drives an aeroplane into one of your buildings or
attacks in any other way don't whinge asking "why us, what did we ever
do to them" like you did after sept. 2001. This is, and always has
been, American foreign policy. This is why people attack you. Your
govt. is inviting attacks.
WH
Bush set to launch CIA ops to topple Iran mullahs
Tools
Print Email Search
Search
Go Sunday May 27 2007
TIM SHIPMAN
in WASHINGTON
PRESIDENT GEORGE W Bush has given the CIA approval to launch covert
"black" operations to achieve regime change in Iran, intelligence
sources have revealed.
Mr Bush has signed an official document endorsing CIA plans for a
propaganda and disinformation campaign intended to destabilise, and
eventually topple, the theocratic rule of the mullahs.
Under the plan, pressure will be brought to bear on the Iranian
economy by manipulating the country's currency and international
financial transactions. Details have also emerged of a covert scheme
to sabotage the Iranian nuclear programme, which United Nations
nuclear watchdogs said last week could lead to a bomb within three
years.
Security officials in Washington have disclosed that Tehran has been
sold defective parts on the black market in a bid to delay and disrupt
its uranium enrichment programme, the precursor to building a nuclear
weapon.
A security source said the presidential directive, known as a "non-
lethal presidential finding", would give the CIA the right to collect
intelligence on home soil, an area that is usually the preserve of the
FBI, from the many Iranian exiles and emigres within the US.
"Iranians in America have links with their families at home, and they
are a good two-way source of information," he said.
The CIA will also be allowed to supply communications equipment which
would enable opposition groups in Iran to work together and bypass
internet censorship by the clerical regime.
The plans, which significantly increase American pressure on Iran,
were leaked just days before a meeting in Iraq tomorrow between the US
ambassador, Ryan Crocker, and his Iranian counterpart.
Tensions were ramped up last week when Iran seized what the US regards
as a fourth "hostage". Three academics who hold dual Iranian-American
citizenship are being held, accused of working to undermine the
Iranian government or of spying. An Iranian-American reporter with
Radio Free Europe, who was visiting Iran, has had her passport seized.
Another Iranian American, businessman Ali Shakeri, was believed to
have been detained as he tried to leave Tehran last week. The US
responded with a show of force by the Navy, sending nine warships,
including two aircraft carriers, into the Persian Gulf.
Authorisation of the new CIA mission, which will not be allowed to use
lethal force, appears to suggest that Mr Bush has, for the time being,
ruled out military action.
Bruce Riedel, until six months ago the senior CIA official who dealt
with Iran, said: "I think they have concluded that a military strike
has more downsides than upsides." However, the CIA is giving arms-
length support, supplying money and weapons, to an Iranian militant
group, Jundullah, which has conducted raids into Iran from bases in
Pakistan.
Iranian officials say they captured 10 members of Jundullah last
weekend, carrying $500,000 in cash along with "maps of sensitive
areas" and "modern spy equipment".
The White House National Security Council and CIA refused to comment
on intelligence matters.
=A9 Telegraph
Stating the Bleeding obvious there WH, never mind the die is caste and
all we can do is watch.
LB
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
27 May 2007 10:34:31 PM |
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On May 27, 5:07 am, WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Next time someone drives an aeroplane into one of your buildings or
attacks in any other way don't whinge asking "why us, what did we ever
do to them" like you did after sept. 2001. This is, and always has
been, American foreign policy. This is why people attack you. Your
govt. is inviting attacks.
Is that what people in the UK were saying after the subway attack? Was
that because British Intelligence worked with the CIA on the 1953 coup
in Iran?
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
27 May 2007 07:36:53 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 27 May 2007 05:07:04 -0700, WH wrote:
Next time someone drives an aeroplane into one of your buildings or
attacks in any other way don't whinge asking "why us, what did we ever
do to them" like you did after sept. 2001. This is, and always has
been, American foreign policy. This is why people attack you. Your
govt. is inviting attacks.
WH
Our government has a very long history of fomenting revolution in other
parts of the world, sad to say. Most Americans are not aware of this
unsavory legacy. I only found out about it, to a limited extent, about 10
years ago - thanks to a foreign exchange student in my daughter's school,
who was shocked to find out that the students didn't have a clue about the
School of the Americas (they've since changed their name to something
else, but their activities remain the same). http://www.soaw.org/
Bush set to launch CIA ops to topple Iran mullahs
This will probably come back to bite us in a decade or so, as our previous
screwed up Middle Eastern policies have. Ditto the crap we're pulling in
Latin America.
I swear, we really have to stop voting in business people who can't think
beyond the next fiscal quarter (let alone the next election)!
Woods
.
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| User: "Perseid" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
27 May 2007 07:53:14 PM |
|
|
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, Woodswun
<woodswun@tepidmail.com> Spat the Words
On Sun, 27 May 2007 05:07:04 -0700, WH wrote:
Next time someone drives an aeroplane into one of your buildings or
attacks in any other way don't whinge asking "why us, what did we ever
do to them" like you did after sept. 2001. This is, and always has
been, American foreign policy. This is why people attack you. Your
govt. is inviting attacks.
WH
Our government has a very long history of fomenting revolution in other
parts of the world, sad to say. Most Americans are not aware of this
unsavory legacy. I only found out about it, to a limited extent, about
10
years ago - thanks to a foreign exchange student in my daughter's
school,
who was shocked to find out that the students didn't have a clue about
the
School of the Americas (they've since changed their name to something
else, but their activities remain the same). http://www.soaw.org/
The yanks are picking up where western europe left off. Up until
about WWII the US was still fairly isolationist and the western
european countries, the old colonial nations, were the ones doing
all the meddling.
Bush set to launch CIA ops to topple Iran mullahs
This will probably come back to bite us in a decade or so, as our
previous
screwed up Middle Eastern policies have. Ditto the crap we're pulling
in
Latin America.
I swear, we really have to stop voting in business people who can't
think
beyond the next fiscal quarter (let alone the next election)!
Woods
.
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
28 May 2007 02:03:13 AM |
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On May 28, 1:53?am, Perseid <eidp...@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
The yanks are picking up where western europe left off. Up until
about WWII the US was still fairly isolationist and the western
european countries, the old colonial nations, were the ones doing
all the meddling.
True, in that Europe was in a turmoil for a few thousand years Randy.
We learned a great deal about the futility of war after 1945.
Geography has more to do with you pre-war Isolationism than does
desire though. America is very large and was growing into a Nation.
That was more than enough to occupy it. Rather like Australia, you
have no need, nor should you have desire to plant your culture
worldwide.
Victorian Colonialism expolited Foreign lands, but also was quite a
benign rule. The British Commonwealth is testament to that. The
comparison falls down on another point too. The 'exploited' Countries
were not developed Nations...just tribal colonies in remote desirable
land. We learned from the experience. As a witness, the US should have
been equally instructed by events. Sadly, this does not appear to be
the case.
Civilised? That's the key question now perhaps. Have we yet learned
tolerence to shy away from interference in foreign affairs that will
inevitably lead to reprisal and to conflict?
Europe by and large has 'grown-up'.
America is a child...a meddling annoying child.
Werewolfy
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
28 May 2007 10:32:34 AM |
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On May 28, 12:03 am, Werewolfy <Werewol...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Europe by and large has 'grown-up'.
One can only hope. As recently as the late 1990s, events show
otherwise.
America is a child...a meddling annoying child.
How ironic that you just recently admoninshed America for its
reluctance to become involved in yet another European War so soon
after World War I ... while completely ignoring the fact our President
Wilson had recommended a more lenient treatment for Germany after that
first war. But instead, Europe's harsh punishment for Germany gave
rise to Hitler, as the harsh treatment of Germany gave him the
platform he needed to cause yet another European war ... additionally,
I wonder if you were annoyed by America's "meddling" (one more time)
in Europe's latest war in the late 1990s?
.
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
28 May 2007 11:13:04 AM |
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On May 28, 4:32?pm, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
"One can only hope. As recently as the late 1990s, events show
otherwise."
You do understand the term, 'by and large'?
"How ironic that you just recently admoninshed America for its
reluctance to become involved in yet another European War so soon
after World War I ... while completely ignoring the fact our President
Wilson had recommended a more lenient treatment for Germany after that
first war. But instead, Europe's harsh punishment for Germany gave
rise to Hitler, as the harsh treatment of Germany gave him the
platform he needed to cause yet another European war ... additionally,
I wonder if you were annoyed by America's "meddling" (one more time)
in Europe's latest war in the late 1990s?"
You simply cannot be serious. You cannot truly say that Europe caused
WW2 and made Hitler attack everyone. But you are, are you not?
Beyond belief...truly amazing world you live in.
Now..as far as the civil war in Yugoslavia is concerned, yes. You had
no business there. After all, you CAUSED the damned civil war.
The US granted Billions every year to Yugoslavia, in order to ensure
it stayed 'friendly,' and to prevent Russia from establishing a
stronghold there.
The second that Russia collapsed, the Berlin wall fell...your 'aid'
stopped, leaving Yugoslavia in a pretty awful situation.
Always meddling, always subversive and always denying, like some red-
faced schoolboy, 'What, me Sir...No, someone else did it.'
Arrogance as it's worst.
Werewolfy
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
29 May 2007 08:02:04 AM |
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On May 28, 9:13 am, Werewolfy <Werewol...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On May 28, 4:32?pm, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
"One can only hope. As recently as the late 1990s, events show
otherwise."
You do understand the term, 'by and large'?
Yes I do. My response was to your comparison of the "grown-up" Europe
to the "child" America. When is the last time European military forces
were required on the North American continent?
"How ironic that you just recently admoninshed America for its
reluctance to become involved in yet another European War so soon
after World War I ... while completely ignoring the fact our President
Wilson had recommended a more lenient treatment for Germany after that
first war. But instead, Europe's harsh punishment for Germany gave
rise to Hitler, as the harsh treatment of Germany gave him the
platform he needed to cause yet another European war ... additionally,
I wonder if you were annoyed by America's "meddling" (one more time)
in Europe's latest war in the late 1990s?"
You simply cannot be serious. You cannot truly say that Europe caused
WW2 and made Hitler attack everyone. But you are, are you not?
No, I am not. I did not say Europe "made" Hitler attack everyone. If
you read my words, I said the harsh treatment of Germany after World
War I gave rise to Hitler (as in, the German people were receptive to
his ideas for Germany), and gave him the platform he needed to cause
yet another European war.
Beyond belief...truly amazing world you live in.
http://www.schoolhistory.co.uk/year9links/versailles.shtml
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/long_term_causes_of_world_war_tw.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A828317
Now..as far as the civil war in Yugoslavia is concerned, yes. You had
no business there. After all, you CAUSED the damned civil war.
Beyond belief...truly amazing the world you live in.
The US granted Billions every year to Yugoslavia, in order to ensure
it stayed 'friendly,' and to prevent Russia from establishing a
stronghold there.
The second that Russia collapsed, the Berlin wall fell...your 'aid'
stopped, leaving Yugoslavia in a pretty awful situation.
It all started falling apart when Tito died. That was around 1980,
wasn't it? His economic policies left that country in a pretty awful
situation. There was fighting going on between some of those provinces
just about the time the Soviet Union was collapsing. Yet you want to
blame it all on the US. How fair of you.
Always meddling, always subversive and always denying, like some red-
faced schoolboy, 'What, me Sir...No, someone else did it.'
Yes, it must have been Bush's fault, right?
Arrogance as it's worst.
Take a look at yourself sometime.
.
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
29 May 2007 10:09:17 AM |
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On May 29, 2:02?pm, Steven Douglas <dste...@flashmail.com> wrote:
"> Yes I do. My response was to your comparison of the "grown-up"
Europe
to the "child" America. When is the last time European military forces
were required on the North American continent?"
Good. As you understand it, I wonder why you made comments regarding
the
Balkan wars at all.
It was obvious I excluded that from my general statement. There was no
need for you to
add your odd statement.
The last time European Forces were on the NA Continent?
Why, that must have been when you declared war against England, when
you enlisted
the French Army to help you out.
"> No, I am not. I did not say Europe "made" Hitler attack everyone.
If
you read my words, I said the harsh treatment of Germany after World
War I gave rise to Hitler (as in, the German people were receptive to
his ideas for Germany), and gave him the platform he needed to cause
yet another European war."
Your statement was calculated to apportion blame for WW2 on Europe,
to ensure no association or responsibility lay with the US.
Quite obviously, there was insufficient 'harsh treatment' applied to
Germany after WW1
Your Nation should have insisted on more penalties..maybe build a few
of your
pretty 'detention without trial' centres, such as you now are proud to
possess..
"> It all started falling apart when Tito died. That was around 1980,
wasn't it? His economic policies left that country in a pretty awful
situation. There was fighting going on between some of those provinces
just about the time the Soviet Union was collapsing. Yet you want to
blame it all on the US. How fair of you."
This has nothing whatsoever to do with 'fairness'. It has everything
to do with fact.
I was bloody well IN Yugoslavia when the fighting started. Look up
'Vukovar'.
Compare some dates, look at US 'aid, and look at the reduction, then
stopping of all aid,
along with a graph showing the demise of any threat by Russia to
annexe Yugoslavia.
I repeat. YOU CAUSED THE BLOODY UNREST. You paid Yugoslavia Billions
of dollars,
when you no longer needed them, you bombed their Capital city.
Take your God, your Evangalists, your 'aid' and stay as far away from
me as possible.
Werewolfy
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
28 May 2007 02:06:45 AM |
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Werewolfy <Werewol...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[---nothing---]
That's so cute, my monkey, the way you
mimic people with real opinions. But as
cute as that may be, that is not your job.
You're here to entertain me, my monkey.
Dance. Dance for me. I command you to
dance for me, my monkey.
.
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| User: "Werewolfy" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
28 May 2007 02:11:09 AM |
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On May 28, 8:06?am, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
That's so cute, my monkey, the way you
mimic people with real opinions. But as
cute as that may be, that is not your job.
You're here to entertain me, my monkey.
Dance. Dance for me. I command you to
dance for me, my monkey.
Have a look in your 'other' house. Soc. motss. I've just been
'entertaining' in there...all about you.
Werewolfy
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
28 May 2007 08:34:50 AM |
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On Sun, 27 May 2007 19:53:14 -0500, Perseid wrote:
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, Woodswun
<woodswun@tepidmail.com> Spat the Words
On Sun, 27 May 2007 05:07:04 -0700, WH wrote:
Next time someone drives an aeroplane into one of your buildings or
attacks in any other way don't whinge asking "why us, what did we ever
do to them" like you did after sept. 2001. This is, and always has
been, American foreign policy. This is why people attack you. Your
govt. is inviting attacks.
WH
Our government has a very long history of fomenting revolution in other
parts of the world, sad to say. Most Americans are not aware of this
unsavory legacy. I only found out about it, to a limited extent, about
10
years ago - thanks to a foreign exchange student in my daughter's
school,
who was shocked to find out that the students didn't have a clue about
the
School of the Americas (they've since changed their name to something
else, but their activities remain the same). http://www.soaw.org/
The yanks are picking up where western europe left off. Up until
about WWII the US was still fairly isolationist and the western
european countries, the old colonial nations, were the ones doing
all the meddling.
To be fair, western europe didn't have anywhere near the resources that
the U.S. has, and they've learned their lesson. Seeing as how we
descended from them, and have been able to see the results of their
colonialism (having fought it off, ourselves), there's no excuse for our
following suit. We've become a nation whose purpose is to find ways to
get more money for big business, while occasionally tossing a few bones to
the serfs (American working class) to give them a false sense of hope.
It's disgusting and frightening at the same time. I shudder to think what
the ultimate consequence will be when the rest of the planet has decided
it's had enough.
Woods
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
28 May 2007 10:34:19 AM |
|
|
On May 28, 6:34 am, Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2007 19:53:14 -0500, Perseid wrote:
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, Woodswun
<woods...@tepidmail.com> Spat the Words
On Sun, 27 May 2007 05:07:04 -0700, WH wrote:
Next time someone drives an aeroplane into one of your buildings or
attacks in any other way don't whinge asking "why us, what did we ever
do to them" like you did after sept. 2001. This is, and always has
been, American foreign policy. This is why people attack you. Your
govt. is inviting attacks.
WH
Our government has a very long history of fomenting revolution in other
parts of the world, sad to say. Most Americans are not aware of this
unsavory legacy. I only found out about it, to a limited extent, about
10
years ago - thanks to a foreign exchange student in my daughter's
school,
who was shocked to find out that the students didn't have a clue about
the
School of the Americas (they've since changed their name to something
else, but their activities remain the same). http://www.soaw.org/
The yanks are picking up where western europe left off. Up until
about WWII the US was still fairly isolationist and the western
european countries, the old colonial nations, were the ones doing
all the meddling.
To be fair, western europe didn't have anywhere near the resources that
the U.S. has, and they've learned their lesson. Seeing as how we
descended from them, and have been able to see the results of their
colonialism (having fought it off, ourselves), there's no excuse for our
following suit.
What is our empire? Can you name our colonies?
We've become a nation whose purpose is to find ways to
get more money for big business, while occasionally tossing a few bones to
the serfs (American working class) to give them a false sense of hope.
It's disgusting and frightening at the same time. I shudder to think what
the ultimate consequence will be when the rest of the planet has decided
it's had enough.
Any particular situation to which you're referring?
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
28 May 2007 12:49:41 PM |
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|
On Mon, 28 May 2007 08:34:19 -0700, Steven Douglas wrote:
On May 28, 6:34 am, Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2007 19:53:14 -0500, Perseid wrote:
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, Woodswun
<woods...@tepidmail.com> Spat the Words
On Sun, 27 May 2007 05:07:04 -0700, WH wrote:
Next time someone drives an aeroplane into one of your buildings or
attacks in any other way don't whinge asking "why us, what did we ever
do to them" like you did after sept. 2001. This is, and always has
been, American foreign policy. This is why people attack you. Your
govt. is inviting attacks.
WH
Our government has a very long history of fomenting revolution in other
parts of the world, sad to say. Most Americans are not aware of this
unsavory legacy. I only found out about it, to a limited extent, about
10
years ago - thanks to a foreign exchange student in my daughter's
school,
who was shocked to find out that the students didn't have a clue about
the
School of the Americas (they've since changed their name to something
else, but their activities remain the same). http://www.soaw.org/
The yanks are picking up where western europe left off. Up until
about WWII the US was still fairly isolationist and the western
european countries, the old colonial nations, were the ones doing
all the meddling.
To be fair, western europe didn't have anywhere near the resources that
the U.S. has, and they've learned their lesson. Seeing as how we
descended from them, and have been able to see the results of their
colonialism (having fought it off, ourselves), there's no excuse for our
following suit.
What is our empire? Can you name our colonies?
It's a set of corporate empires. Our corporations exploit third world
countries.
We've become a nation whose purpose is to find ways to get more money
for big business, while occasionally tossing a few bones to the serfs
(American working class) to give them a false sense of hope. It's
disgusting and frightening at the same time. I shudder to think what
the ultimate consequence will be when the rest of the planet has
decided it's had enough.
Any particular situation to which you're referring?
No, it's a trend. It would take a considerable amount of space to bring
you up to speed on that but here's something of a very brief summary: Our
workers get occasional raises, but they are not sufficient to keep up with
the cost of living and maintain the lifestyle for their class standing.
This is compounded by the fact that companies are abusing
misrepresenting needs/actions of technical workers in order to keep
technical salaries lower than the market would otherwise sustain (which,
in turn, discourages students from entering into fields that would keep
America in the running for technical expertise). (I know for a
fact that at least one major corporation was forcing their
personnel people to say their programmers from China were coming
over for "training", when they were, in fact, coming over to
work for less than an American could afford to work for). Meanwhile,
corporate executives are making many more times the salary of the average
worker in comparison to 30 years ago. There's more going on than that, but
that's sufficient to give you the general idea.
You are witnessing the growth of an underclass in America and, eventually,
America *as* an underclass.
Woods
.
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| User: "Perseid" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
29 May 2007 12:02:01 AM |
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|
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, Woodswun
<woodswun@tepidmail.com> Spat the Words
On Mon, 28 May 2007 08:34:19 -0700, Steven Douglas wrote:
On May 28, 6:34 am, Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2007 19:53:14 -0500, Perseid wrote:
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, Woodswun
<woods...@tepidmail.com> Spat the Words
On Sun, 27 May 2007 05:07:04 -0700, WH wrote:
Next time someone drives an aeroplane into one of your buildings
or attacks in any other way don't whinge asking "why us, what did
we ever do to them" like you did after sept. 2001. This is, and
always has been, American foreign policy. This is why people
attack you. Your govt. is inviting attacks.
WH
Our government has a very long history of fomenting revolution in
other parts of the world, sad to say. Most Americans are not aware
of this unsavory legacy. I only found out about it, to a limited
extent, about
10
years ago - thanks to a foreign exchange student in my daughter's
school,
who was shocked to find out that the students didn't have a clue
about
the
School of the Americas (they've since changed their name to
something else, but their activities remain the same).
http://www.soaw.org/
The yanks are picking up where western europe left off. Up until
about WWII the US was still fairly isolationist and the western
european countries, the old colonial nations, were the ones doing
all the meddling.
To be fair, western europe didn't have anywhere near the resources
that the U.S. has, and they've learned their lesson. Seeing as how we
descended from them, and have been able to see the results of their
colonialism (having fought it off, ourselves), there's no excuse for
our following suit.
What is our empire? Can you name our colonies?
It's a set of corporate empires. Our corporations exploit third world
countries.
We've become a nation whose purpose is to find ways to get more money
for big business, while occasionally tossing a few bones to the serfs
(American working class) to give them a false sense of hope. It's
disgusting and frightening at the same time. I shudder to think what
the ultimate consequence will be when the rest of the planet has
decided it's had enough.
Any particular situation to which you're referring?
No, it's a trend. It would take a considerable amount of space to bring
you up to speed on that but here's something of a very brief summary:
Our workers get occasional raises, but they are not sufficient to keep
up with the cost of living and maintain the lifestyle for their class
standing. This is compounded by the fact that companies are abusing
misrepresenting needs/actions of technical workers in order to keep
technical salaries lower than the market would otherwise sustain (which,
in turn, discourages students from entering into fields that would keep
America in the running for technical expertise). (I know for a
fact that at least one major corporation was forcing their
personnel people to say their programmers from China were coming
over for "training", when they were, in fact, coming over to
work for less than an American could afford to work for). Meanwhile,
corporate executives are making many more times the salary of the
average worker in comparison to 30 years ago. There's more going on than
that, but that's sufficient to give you the general idea.
I hear that income disparity between workers and executives hasn't
been higher since the Great Depression. The prevailing view is that
this only hurts the businesses since 2/3 of economic activity is
attributed to consumer spending. Go figure.. business executives
promoting policies which hurt their own business. We don't realize
just how good we had it under Clinton when the lowliest worker was
flush with cash and spending like drunken sailors. The big money
interests, especially when republican political stooges are working
'for big business', seem to be working to their own detriment.
You are witnessing the growth of an underclass in America and,
eventually, America *as* an underclass.
Woods
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
29 May 2007 08:06:41 AM |
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On May 28, 10:49 am, Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2007 08:34:19 -0700, Steven Douglas wrote:
On May 28, 6:34 am, Woodswun <woods...@tepidmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2007 19:53:14 -0500, Perseid wrote:
After Much Chewing of Cud and Cogitation, Woodswun
<woods...@tepidmail.com> Spat the Words
On Sun, 27 May 2007 05:07:04 -0700, WH wrote:
Next time someone drives an aeroplane into one of your buildings or
attacks in any other way don't whinge asking "why us, what did we ever
do to them" like you did after sept. 2001. This is, and always has
been, American foreign policy. This is why people attack you. Your
govt. is inviting attacks.
WH
Our government has a very long history of fomenting revolution in other
parts of the world, sad to say. Most Americans are not aware of this
unsavory legacy. I only found out about it, to a limited extent, about
10
years ago - thanks to a foreign exchange student in my daughter's
school,
who was shocked to find out that the students didn't have a clue about
the
School of the Americas (they've since changed their name to something
else, but their activities remain the same). http://www.soaw.org/
The yanks are picking up where western europe left off. Up until
about WWII the US was still fairly isolationist and the western
european countries, the old colonial nations, were the ones doing
all the meddling.
To be fair, western europe didn't have anywhere near the resources that
the U.S. has, and they've learned their lesson. Seeing as how we
descended from them, and have been able to see the results of their
colonialism (having fought it off, ourselves), there's no excuse for our
following suit.
What is our empire? Can you name our colonies?
It's a set of corporate empires.
I see. I thought the discussion was about actual empires -- such as
the British Empire, things like that.
Our corporations exploit third world countries.
So it's just *our* corporations? No corporations from Europe do that?
No corporations from Asia do that? Only US corporations do that?
We've become a nation whose purpose is to find ways to get more money
for big business, while occasionally tossing a few bones to the serfs
(American working class) to give them a false sense of hope. It's
disgusting and frightening at the same time. I shudder to think what
the ultimate consequence will be when the rest of the planet has
decided it's had enough.
Any particular situation to which you're referring?
No, it's a trend. It would take a considerable amount of space to bring
you up to speed on that but here's something of a very brief summary: Our
workers get occasional raises, but they are not sufficient to keep up with
the cost of living and maintain the lifestyle for their class standing.
This is compounded by the fact that companies are abusing
misrepresenting needs/actions of technical workers in order to keep
technical salaries lower than the market would otherwise sustain (which,
in turn, discourages students from entering into fields that would keep
America in the running for technical expertise). (I know for a
fact that at least one major corporation was forcing their
personnel people to say their programmers from China were coming
over for "training", when they were, in fact, coming over to
work for less than an American could afford to work for). Meanwhile,
corporate executives are making many more times the salary of the average
worker in comparison to 30 years ago. There's more going on than that, but
that's sufficient to give you the general idea.
You are witnessing the growth of an underclass in America and, eventually,
America *as* an underclass.
Yes, I have posted about the emerging underclass as well. But this
thread was not about our internal problems. It was about Empires, and
you turned it into something else.
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
28 May 2007 12:11:45 AM |
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WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Next time someone drives an aeroplane
into one of your buildings or attacks in
any other way don't whinge asking "why
us, what did we ever do to them"
And when Australia is over run by displaced
Asians, you'll know why the United States
won't be there to help.
.
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| User: "Docrodile" |
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| Title: Re: This is why, (for the yanks) |
29 May 2007 12:01:17 AM |
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"JTEM" <jtem01@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180329105.441146.260130@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
WH <boll...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Next time someone drives an aeroplane
into one of your buildings or attacks in
any other way don't whinge asking "why
us, what did we ever do to them"
A rubber duck and a sailboat;
I watch my bath toys sink and float.
They keep me company in the tub
'Til Mommy makes me soap and scrub.
I love to take a bath each night,
And go to bed all clean and bright.
And when Australia is over run by displaced
Asians, you'll know why the United States
won't be there to help.
.
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