With Bush's "soldiers" not only abusing people but gleefully posing for
photographs while doing it, it's clear they have no fear of prosecution -
this goes all the way to the top.
And this most likely means that the pictures are intended by our rulers to
provoke a "terrorist" response on U.S. soil (so they can impose martial law)
and/or to widen the war.
With public opinion turning against them and their war, a desperate
Team-Bush must realize that both Bush's political career and the
neocon/Zionist plans for the Mideast are in serious jeopardy right now. They
need some serious "terrorist" retaliation and/or a wider war, and they need
it ASAP.
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 04:39:17 PM |
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|
"Ex" <ex@ex.com> wrote in article
<B4xnc.3308$FH5.157061@news20.bellglobal.com> :
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405091255.2bfe1e97@posting.google.com...
And if they really wanted to
incite the terrorists, why did they stop the abuse and announce it in
January if they didn't intend to release the pictures until now?
Really?? Source?? Has this been confirmed by the International Red Cross? If
so, then that's good. If not, then you're still full of *****.
Charge of Iraq prisoner abuse to be investigated - 1/17/04
http://www.detnews.com/2004/nation/0401/17/nation-38109.htm
US Army charges six soldiers with cruelty in Iraq. 21/03/2004. ABC
News Online
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1070414.htm
Got any answers to these questions?
Yes ...
No. All you did was invent more drivel.
Go ahead, make up another story to cover your first one.
What story??
The story that was the original post in this thread. It was a bunch of
made up drivel, just like the response you gave me.
If you were doing something as despicable as what these soldiers did,
would you produce 'souveniers' and 'trophies' to pass around if you
you'd be persecuted?? If you were getting the 'OK' from above then not
likely. Go ahead, make up another excuse ...
There are countless cases of people photographing themselves while
engaged in criminal acts. There is currently a rape case in California
where the perpetrators made a video of the rape. Smart, huh?
You are speculating that they were ordered by superiors to photograph
themselves, but you have no proof. Unless you have a source for it.
Hmm?
.
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| User: "Ex" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 07:21:19 PM |
|
|
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405091339.6f48542a@posting.google.com...
"Ex" <ex@ex.com> wrote in article
<B4xnc.3308$FH5.157061@news20.bellglobal.com> :
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405091255.2bfe1e97@posting.google.com...
And if they really wanted to
incite the terrorists, why did they stop the abuse and announce it in
January if they didn't intend to release the pictures until now?
Really?? Source?? Has this been confirmed by the International Red
Cross? If
so, then that's good. If not, then you're still full of *****.
Charge of Iraq prisoner abuse to be investigated - 1/17/04
http://www.detnews.com/2004/nation/0401/17/nation-38109.htm
US Army charges six soldiers with cruelty in Iraq. 21/03/2004. ABC
News Online
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1070414.htm
Got any answers to these questions?
Yes ...
IRC confirmation that the abuse has stopped?
No. All you did was invent more drivel.
Go ahead, make up another story to cover your first one.
What story??
The story that was the original post in this thread. It was a bunch of
made up drivel, just like the response you gave me.
If you were doing something as despicable as what these soldiers did,
would you produce 'souveniers' and 'trophies' to pass around if you
you'd be persecuted?? If you were getting the 'OK' from above then not
likely. Go ahead, make up another excuse ...
There are countless cases of people photographing themselves while
engaged in criminal acts. There is currently a rape case in California
where the perpetrators made a video of the rape. Smart, huh?
Smart? No.
Are you saying then that they hire psychopaths to guard prisoners then?
That's another possibility. It's just funny how they all ended up together.
Psychological profiling is one possibility.
You are speculating that they were ordered by superiors to photograph
themselves, but you have no proof. Unless you have a source for it.
Hmm?
??????
They did it for kicks apparently without any concern of consequence because
it was condoned from above or they were psychopaths the army hired and
grouped together based on psychological profiling ... which one do you think
it is??
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.676 / Virus Database: 438 - Release Date: 5/3/04
.
|
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| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 08:59:19 PM |
|
|
In article <pWznc.5231$FH5.192763@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Ex" <ex@ex.com> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405091339.6f48542a@posting.google.com...
"Ex" <ex@ex.com> wrote in article
<B4xnc.3308$FH5.157061@news20.bellglobal.com> :
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405091255.2bfe1e97@posting.google.com...
And if they really wanted to
incite the terrorists, why did they stop the abuse and announce it in
January if they didn't intend to release the pictures until now?
Really?? Source?? Has this been confirmed by the International Red
Cross? If
so, then that's good. If not, then you're still full of *****.
Charge of Iraq prisoner abuse to be investigated - 1/17/04
http://www.detnews.com/2004/nation/0401/17/nation-38109.htm
US Army charges six soldiers with cruelty in Iraq. 21/03/2004. ABC
News Online
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1070414.htm
Got any answers to these questions?
Yes ...
IRC confirmation that the abuse has stopped?
No. All you did was invent more drivel.
Go ahead, make up another story to cover your first one.
What story??
The story that was the original post in this thread. It was a bunch of
made up drivel, just like the response you gave me.
If you were doing something as despicable as what these soldiers did,
would you produce 'souveniers' and 'trophies' to pass around if you
you'd be persecuted?? If you were getting the 'OK' from above then not
likely. Go ahead, make up another excuse ...
There are countless cases of people photographing themselves while
engaged in criminal acts. There is currently a rape case in California
where the perpetrators made a video of the rape. Smart, huh?
Smart? No.
Are you saying then that they hire psychopaths to guard prisoners then?
That's another possibility. It's just funny how they all ended up together.
Psychological profiling is one possibility.
You are speculating that they were ordered by superiors to photograph
themselves, but you have no proof. Unless you have a source for it.
Hmm?
??????
They did it for kicks apparently without any concern of consequence because
it was condoned from above or they were psychopaths the army hired and
grouped together based on psychological profiling ... which one do you think
it is??
Here's a source for you:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/09/hersh.iraq.abuse/index.html
"The evidence suggests that cameras were part of the interrogation process,"
said Hersh, who won the Pulitzer Prize for his article on the My Lai massacre
during the Vietnam War.
"One of the ways you could get more leverage was shame, humiliation, to threaten
to show these photos to neighbors, others."
<<<
Woods
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 12:18:10 AM |
|
|
(Woodswun) wrote in message news:<XlBnc.18176$hY.3291@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
Here's a source for you:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/09/hersh.iraq.abuse/index.html
"The evidence suggests that cameras were part of the interrogation process,"
"The evidence suggests" is an opinion, not a fact. Now find me a hard
news source that backs up your claim ... if you can.
.
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| User: "Ex" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 05:55:35 AM |
|
|
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405092118.6ba0e20c@posting.google.com...
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<XlBnc.18176$hY.3291@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
Here's a source for you:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/09/hersh.iraq.abuse/index.html
"The evidence suggests that cameras were part of the interrogation
process,"
"The evidence suggests" is an opinion, not a fact. Now find me a hard
news source that backs up your claim ... if you can.
Ok ... then either the cameras were there to produce self-incriminating
'momentoes' of their special time in Iraq because they were psychopaths
hired and grouped by the army or because they had no fear of being caught
since it was fine with 'upper managament' or they were used to threaten
prisoners with further humiliation by showing them to their family.... which
one is it 'Stever' ... pick a door ... got an explanation why the pictures
exist *at all* ...
-ex
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.676 / Virus Database: 438 - Release Date: 5/3/04
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 07:04:20 PM |
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"Ex" <ex@ex.com> wrote in message news:<5dJnc.4242$dr1.180450@news20.bellglobal.com>...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405092118.6ba0e20c@posting.google.com...
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<XlBnc.18176$hY.3291@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
Here's a source for you:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/09/hersh.iraq.abuse/index.html
"The evidence suggests that cameras were part of the interrogation
process,"
"The evidence suggests" is an opinion, not a fact. Now find me a hard
news source that backs up your claim ... if you can.
Ok ... then either the cameras were there to produce self-incriminating
'momentoes' of their special time in Iraq because they were psychopaths
hired and grouped by the army or because they had no fear of being caught
since it was fine with 'upper managament'
They had a lack of leadership in the prison. That's why General
Karpinski was formally admonished and suspended in January as the
story was being made public.
or they were used to threaten prisoners with further humiliation by
showing them to their family.... which one is it 'Stever' ...
pick a door ... got an explanation why the pictures
exist *at all* ...
Maybe we'll find out when the court martials begin. I don't understand
why criminals feel the need to photograph themselves in action, but it
is not uncommon. Recently,there was a gang roaming around and making
videos of themselves vandalizing property.
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
11 May 2004 05:26:20 PM |
|
|
In article <a2b35e99.0405101604.4dc32cb3@posting.google.com>, (Steven Douglas) wrote:
"Ex" <ex@ex.com> wrote in message
news:<5dJnc.4242$dr1.180450@news20.bellglobal.com>...
"Steven Douglas" < > wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405092118.6ba0e20c@posting.google.com...
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<XlBnc.18176$hY.3291@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
Here's a source for you:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/09/hersh.iraq.abuse/index.html
"The evidence suggests that cameras were part of the interrogation
process,"
"The evidence suggests" is an opinion, not a fact. Now find me a hard
news source that backs up your claim ... if you can.
Ok ... then either the cameras were there to produce self-incriminating
'momentoes' of their special time in Iraq because they were psychopaths
hired and grouped by the army or because they had no fear of being caught
since it was fine with 'upper managament'
They had a lack of leadership in the prison. That's why General
Karpinski was formally admonished and suspended in January as the
story was being made public.
Scapegoat, same as Ollie North was.
She was told to take over the prison and who to put in charge.
Woods
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 06:11:48 PM |
|
|
In article <a2b35e99.0405092118.6ba0e20c@posting.google.com>, (Steven Douglas) wrote:
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<XlBnc.18176$hY.3291@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
Here's a source for you:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/09/hersh.iraq.abuse/index.html
"The evidence suggests that cameras were part of the interrogation process,"
"The evidence suggests" is an opinion, not a fact. Now find me a hard
news source that backs up your claim ... if you can.
The "source" was for someone else, whom you conveniently cropped out. Also
conveniently cropped out was the source - the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist
who broke the Mai Lai story.
Woods
.
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| User: "R. Foreman" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 05:31:04 AM |
|
|
"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> Spat the Words
With Bush's "soldiers" not only abusing people but gleefully posing
for photographs while doing it, it's clear they have no fear of
prosecution - this goes all the way to the top.
And this most likely means that the pictures are intended by our
rulers to provoke a "terrorist" response on U.S. soil (so they can
impose martial law) and/or to widen the war.
With public opinion turning against them and their war, a desperate
Team-Bush must realize that both Bush's political career and the
neocon/Zionist plans for the Mideast are in serious jeopardy right
now. They need some serious "terrorist" retaliation and/or a wider
war, and they need it ASAP.
Interesting point. One does wonder who snapped all those photos
and shot the videos - there seems to be quite a lot of them. The
obvious thinking would be to hide unlawful activities, so why
would all this evidence be created if not to incite the muslims?
.
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| User: "Cuan" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 07:28:50 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 09 May 2004 10:31:04 GMT, "R. Foreman"
<eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:
"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> Spat the Words
With Bush's "soldiers" not only abusing people but gleefully posing
for photographs while doing it, it's clear they have no fear of
prosecution - this goes all the way to the top.
And this most likely means that the pictures are intended by our
rulers to provoke a "terrorist" response on U.S. soil (so they can
impose martial law) and/or to widen the war.
With public opinion turning against them and their war, a desperate
Team-Bush must realize that both Bush's political career and the
neocon/Zionist plans for the Mideast are in serious jeopardy right
now. They need some serious "terrorist" retaliation and/or a wider
war, and they need it ASAP.
Interesting point. One does wonder who snapped all those photos
and shot the videos - there seems to be quite a lot of them. The
obvious thinking would be to hide unlawful activities, so why
would all this evidence be created if not to incite the muslims?
probably also to enable the USG to crucify the scapegoats when the
story broke - standard procedure.
- cuan
.
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| User: "Ex" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 09:24:25 AM |
|
|
"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:p9-dnS6Bd5TqAADdRVn-ig@adelphia.com...
With Bush's "soldiers" not only abusing people but gleefully posing for
photographs while doing it, it's clear they have no fear of prosecution -
this goes all the way to the top.
And this most likely means that the pictures are intended by our rulers to
provoke a "terrorist" response on U.S. soil (so they can impose martial
law)
and/or to widen the war.
With public opinion turning against them and their war, a desperate
Team-Bush must realize that both Bush's political career and the
neocon/Zionist plans for the Mideast are in serious jeopardy right now.
They
need some serious "terrorist" retaliation and/or a wider war, and they
need
it ASAP.
You have to wonder why they would've produced so much self-incriminating
evidence ... unless they had no fear of persecution. Which in turn makes ya
wonder how high up this was condoned ...
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.676 / Virus Database: 438 - Release Date: 5/3/04
.
|
|
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| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 11:22:33 AM |
|
|
In article <Karnc.1068$FH5.56891@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Ex" <ex@ex.com> wrote:
"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:p9-dnS6Bd5TqAADdRVn-ig@adelphia.com...
With Bush's "soldiers" not only abusing people but gleefully posing for
photographs while doing it, it's clear they have no fear of prosecution -
this goes all the way to the top.
And this most likely means that the pictures are intended by our rulers to
provoke a "terrorist" response on U.S. soil (so they can impose martial
law)
and/or to widen the war.
With public opinion turning against them and their war, a desperate
Team-Bush must realize that both Bush's political career and the
neocon/Zionist plans for the Mideast are in serious jeopardy right now.
They
need some serious "terrorist" retaliation and/or a wider war, and they
need
it ASAP.
You have to wonder why they would've produced so much self-incriminating
evidence ... unless they had no fear of persecution. Which in turn makes ya
wonder how high up this was condoned ...
Exactly.
There's new word coming out about the way detainees at Guantanamo Bay were/are
treated to extract information, and the guy in charge of that was placed in
charge of extracting information in Iraq. He demanded, and got, Abu Ghraib
prison for that purpose.
Somebody way high up had to make the decision that Gitmo's procedures "worked"
and therefore should be put into place with Iraqi detainees.
This is getting more repulsive as information trickles out ...
Woods
.
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| User: "Ex" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 01:29:34 PM |
|
|
"Woodswun" <woodswun@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:dVsnc.17997$hY.65@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
In article <Karnc.1068$FH5.56891@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Ex" <ex@ex.com>
wrote:
"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:p9-dnS6Bd5TqAADdRVn-ig@adelphia.com...
With Bush's "soldiers" not only abusing people but gleefully posing for
photographs while doing it, it's clear they have no fear of
prosecution -
this goes all the way to the top.
And this most likely means that the pictures are intended by our rulers
to
provoke a "terrorist" response on U.S. soil (so they can impose martial
law)
and/or to widen the war.
With public opinion turning against them and their war, a desperate
Team-Bush must realize that both Bush's political career and the
neocon/Zionist plans for the Mideast are in serious jeopardy right now.
They
need some serious "terrorist" retaliation and/or a wider war, and they
need
it ASAP.
You have to wonder why they would've produced so much self-incriminating
evidence ... unless they had no fear of persecution. Which in turn makes
ya
wonder how high up this was condoned ...
Exactly.
There's new word coming out about the way detainees at Guantanamo Bay
were/are
treated to extract information, and the guy in charge of that was placed
in
charge of extracting information in Iraq. He demanded, and got, Abu
Ghraib
prison for that purpose.
Somebody way high up had to make the decision that Gitmo's procedures
"worked"
and therefore should be put into place with Iraqi detainees.
This is getting more repulsive as information trickles out ...
Woods
Oddly enough, the Chickenhawks in this group seemed to staying pretty
tight-lipped over this topic. Other then Jean ( who actually apologized to
you in an earlier post on this topic ) I noticed Tony and McDonald The
Village Idiot haven't been able to defend Bush or his Admin over this one
....
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.676 / Virus Database: 438 - Release Date: 5/3/04
.
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|
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 04:17:25 PM |
|
|
(Woodswun) wrote in message news:<dVsnc.17997$hY.65@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
There's new word coming out about the way detainees at Guantanamo Bay were/are
treated to extract information, and the guy in charge of that was placed in
charge of extracting information in Iraq. He demanded, and got, Abu Ghraib
prison for that purpose.
When was the guy in charge of Guantanamo put in charge of Abu Ghraib?
Was it before or after those pictures were taken?
Somebody way high up had to make the decision that Gitmo's procedures "worked"
and therefore should be put into place with Iraqi detainees.
Do you have a source for this? Or is this just *another* example of
your unsubstatiated drivel?
This is getting more repulsive as information trickles out ...
What information is that? Do you have a source to back up your claim?
Or do you simply have an utter lack of regard for truth? With your
track record, it's got to be the latter.
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 06:27:06 PM |
|
|
In article <a2b35e99.0405091317.7e287a7d@posting.google.com>, (Steven Douglas) wrote:
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<dVsnc.17997$hY.65@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
There's new word coming out about the way detainees at Guantanamo Bay
were/are
treated to extract information, and the guy in charge of that was placed in
charge of extracting information in Iraq. He demanded, and got, Abu Ghraib
prison for that purpose.
When was the guy in charge of Guantanamo put in charge of Abu Ghraib?
Was it before or after those pictures were taken?
Before.
Somebody way high up had to make the decision that Gitmo's procedures
"worked"
and therefore should be put into place with Iraqi detainees.
Do you have a source for this? Or is this just *another* example of
your unsubstatiated drivel?
It was on either CNN.com or MSNBC.com, per a discussion with the brigadier
general who was in charge of the MPs. Your ad hominem earns you a "go look it
up for yourself".
This is getting more repulsive as information trickles out ...
What information is that? Do you have a source to back up your claim?
Or do you simply have an utter lack of regard for truth? With your
track record, it's got to be the latter.
All the personal attacks won't change the truth.
Woods
.
|
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 07:47:54 PM |
|
|
(Woodswun) wrote in article
<KZTnc.18496$hY.14644@twister.nyroc.rr.com> :
In article <a2b35e99.0405092115.6a8bd3b@posting.google.com>,
dsteven@flashmail.com (Steven Douglas) wrote:
(Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<e7znc.18095$hY.1236@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
In article <a2b35e99.0405091317.7e287a7d@posting.google.com>,
dsteven@flashmail.com (Steven Douglas) wrote:
When was the guy in charge of Guantanamo put in charge of Abu
Ghraib?
Was it before or after those pictures were taken?
Before.
Wrong. Again. As usual. Those pictures were taken sometime last
November or December. General Miller wasn't appointed to take over
that prison until April 15 of this year.
You're incorrect, he was appointed in August/September of 2003:
He was on a fact finding trip in August/September. He wasn't
*appointed* to Iraq until April 15.
From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4934436/
From the article:
"Gitmo's aggressive interrogation techniques and underlying philosophy
of secrecy may have morphed into something terrible in the heat of a
brutal guerrilla war. In the dead of night, Iraqi prisoners were
brutalized and photographed in obscene and degrading poses.
Karpinski's MPs, seven of whom are now charged, maintain that they
were simply following new orders, which were, they say, to "soften up"
prisoners for interrogation."
Notice "Gitmo's aggressive interrogation techniques ... morphed into
something terrible" ...
You've been point blank stating that General Miller's Gitmo techniques
ARE to strip prisoners and photograph them in obscene and degrading
poses. The article does not back up that claim. To "soften up"
prisoners, MP's are only allowed to make prisoners' lives a bit
uncomfortable in the middle of the night (for instance, waking them up
every hour, and then telling them to go back to sleep ... some of us
who experienced military boot camp know all about that one) ... it is
not the MP's job to physically abuse or humiliate the prisoners.
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
|
| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
11 May 2004 05:25:26 PM |
|
|
In article <a2b35e99.0405101647.549c9c35@posting.google.com>, (Steven Douglas) wrote:
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in article
<KZTnc.18496$hY.14644@twister.nyroc.rr.com> :
In article <a2b35e99.0405092115.6a8bd3b@posting.google.com>,
(Steven Douglas) wrote:
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<e7znc.18095$hY.1236@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
In article <a2b35e99.0405091317.7e287a7d@posting.google.com>,
(Steven Douglas) wrote:
When was the guy in charge of Guantanamo put in charge of Abu
Ghraib?
Was it before or after those pictures were taken?
Before.
Wrong. Again. As usual. Those pictures were taken sometime last
November or December. General Miller wasn't appointed to take over
that prison until April 15 of this year.
You're incorrect, he was appointed in August/September of 2003:
He was on a fact finding trip in August/September. He wasn't
*appointed* to Iraq until April 15.
He was giving orders to Kapinski, that makes him the one in charge.
From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4934436/
From the article:
"Gitmo's aggressive interrogation techniques and underlying philosophy
of secrecy may have morphed into something terrible in the heat of a
brutal guerrilla war. In the dead of night, Iraqi prisoners were
brutalized and photographed in obscene and degrading poses.
Karpinski's MPs, seven of whom are now charged, maintain that they
were simply following new orders, which were, they say, to "soften up"
prisoners for interrogation."
Notice "Gitmo's aggressive interrogation techniques ... morphed into
something terrible" ...
You've been point blank stating that General Miller's Gitmo techniques
ARE to strip prisoners and photograph them in obscene and degrading
poses. The article does not back up that claim. To "soften up"
prisoners, MP's are only allowed to make prisoners' lives a bit
uncomfortable in the middle of the night (for instance, waking them up
every hour, and then telling them to go back to sleep ... some of us
who experienced military boot camp know all about that one) ... it is
not the MP's job to physically abuse or humiliate the prisoners.
Well, nobody knows what the Gitmo techniques are, do they? Looks like some
abuse was likely involved.
Woods
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 12:15:37 AM |
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(Woodswun) wrote in message news:<e7znc.18095$hY.1236@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
In article <a2b35e99.0405091317.7e287a7d@posting.google.com>, (Steven Douglas) wrote:
(Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<dVsnc.17997$hY.65@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
There's new word coming out about the way detainees at Guantanamo Bay
were/are
treated to extract information, and the guy in charge of that was placed in
charge of extracting information in Iraq. He demanded, and got, Abu Ghraib
prison for that purpose.
When was the guy in charge of Guantanamo put in charge of Abu Ghraib?
Was it before or after those pictures were taken?
Before.
Wrong. Again. As usual. Those pictures were taken sometime last
November or December. General Miller wasn't appointed to take over
that prison until April 15 of this year.
Somebody way high up had to make the decision that Gitmo's procedures
"worked"
and therefore should be put into place with Iraqi detainees.
Do you have a source for this? Or is this just *another* example of
your unsubstatiated drivel?
It was on either CNN.com or MSNBC.com, per a discussion with the brigadier
general who was in charge of the MPs. Your ad hominem earns you a "go look it
up for yourself".
I couldn't find it if I tried, since it doesn't exist.
This is getting more repulsive as information trickles out ...
What information is that? Do you have a source to back up your claim?
Or do you simply have an utter lack of regard for truth? With your
track record, it's got to be the latter.
All the personal attacks won't change the truth.
Wow ... you are amazing, you know? You are simply *wrong* way too
often -- and that is NOT a personal attack, it is just a fact.
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| User: "Joe" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 03:35:12 AM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405092115.6a8bd3b@posting.google.com...
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<e7znc.18095$hY.1236@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
In article <a2b35e99.0405091317.7e287a7d@posting.google.com>,
dsteven@flashmail.com (Steven Douglas) wrote:
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<dVsnc.17997$hY.65@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
There's new word coming out about the way detainees at Guantanamo Bay
were/are
treated to extract information, and the guy in charge of that was
placed in
charge of extracting information in Iraq. He demanded, and got, Abu
Ghraib
prison for that purpose.
When was the guy in charge of Guantanamo put in charge of Abu Ghraib?
Was it before or after those pictures were taken?
Before.
Wrong. Again. As usual. Those pictures were taken sometime last
November or December. General Miller wasn't appointed to take over
that prison until April 15 of this year.
Technically speaking, he's not "wrong", since it appears that Miller's
direct involvement with Abu Ghraib began last August. Apparently you're
wrong.
"Last August, the Department ordered General Geoffrey Miller - then in
charge at Camp X-Ray in Guantanamo Bay - to go to Iraq to find ways to
improve the flow of intelligence from detainees, an investigation by
Britain's Mail on Sunday newspaper has found."
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9519057%5E401,00.html
Somebody way high up had to make the decision that Gitmo's procedures
"worked"
and therefore should be put into place with Iraqi detainees.
Do you have a source for this? Or is this just *another* example of
your unsubstatiated drivel?
Apparently it did happen that way.
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9519057%5E401,00.html
It was on either CNN.com or MSNBC.com, per a discussion with the
brigadier
general who was in charge of the MPs. Your ad hominem earns you a "go
look it
up for yourself".
I couldn't find it if I tried, since it doesn't exist.
This is getting more repulsive as information trickles out ...
What information is that?
What information do you think it is?
Do you have a source to back up your claim?
Or do you simply have an utter lack of regard for truth? With your
track record, it's got to be the latter.
All the personal attacks won't change the truth.
Wow ... you are amazing, you know? You are simply *wrong* way too
often -- and that is NOT a personal attack, it is just a fact.
Coming from you, he should take that as a compliment.
.
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| User: "Ex" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 05:50:58 AM |
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"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:s8OdnRsBWaQqowLdRVn-gg@adelphia.com...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405092115.6a8bd3b@posting.google.com...
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<e7znc.18095$hY.1236@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
In article <a2b35e99.0405091317.7e287a7d@posting.google.com>,
dsteven@flashmail.com (Steven Douglas) wrote:
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<dVsnc.17997$hY.65@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
There's new word coming out about the way detainees at Guantanamo
Bay
were/are
treated to extract information, and the guy in charge of that was
placed in
charge of extracting information in Iraq. He demanded, and got,
Abu
Ghraib
prison for that purpose.
When was the guy in charge of Guantanamo put in charge of Abu Ghraib?
Was it before or after those pictures were taken?
Before.
Wrong. Again. As usual. Those pictures were taken sometime last
November or December. General Miller wasn't appointed to take over
that prison until April 15 of this year.
Technically speaking, he's not "wrong", since it appears that Miller's
direct involvement with Abu Ghraib began last August. Apparently you're
wrong.
"Last August, the Department ordered General Geoffrey Miller - then in
charge at Camp X-Ray in Guantanamo Bay - to go to Iraq to find ways to
improve the flow of intelligence from detainees, an investigation by
Britain's Mail on Sunday newspaper has found."
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9519057%5E401,00.html
Ya think it's a good idea to point out he's wrong when he's in such an
arrogant mood?
Somebody way high up had to make the decision that Gitmo's
procedures
"worked"
and therefore should be put into place with Iraqi detainees.
Do you have a source for this? Or is this just *another* example of
your unsubstatiated drivel?
Apparently it did happen that way.
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9519057%5E401,00.html
It was on either CNN.com or MSNBC.com, per a discussion with the
brigadier
general who was in charge of the MPs. Your ad hominem earns you a "go
look it
up for yourself".
I couldn't find it if I tried, since it doesn't exist.
This is getting more repulsive as information trickles out ...
What information is that?
What information do you think it is?
Do you have a source to back up your claim?
Or do you simply have an utter lack of regard for truth? With your
track record, it's got to be the latter.
All the personal attacks won't change the truth.
Wow ... you are amazing, you know? You are simply *wrong* way too
often -- and that is NOT a personal attack, it is just a fact.
Coming from you, he should take that as a compliment.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.676 / Virus Database: 438 - Release Date: 5/3/04
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 06:56:53 PM |
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"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<s8OdnRsBWaQqowLdRVn-gg@adelphia.com>...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405092115.6a8bd3b@posting.google.com...
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<e7znc.18095$hY.1236@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
In article <a2b35e99.0405091317.7e287a7d@posting.google.com>,
dsteven@flashmail.com (Steven Douglas) wrote:
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<dVsnc.17997$hY.65@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
There's new word coming out about the way detainees at Guantanamo Bay
were/are
treated to extract information, and the guy in charge of that was
placed in
charge of extracting information in Iraq. He demanded, and got, Abu
Ghraib
prison for that purpose.
When was the guy in charge of Guantanamo put in charge of Abu Ghraib?
Was it before or after those pictures were taken?
Before.
Wrong. Again. As usual. Those pictures were taken sometime last
November or December. General Miller wasn't appointed to take over
that prison until April 15 of this year.
Technically speaking, he's not "wrong", since it appears that Miller's
direct involvement with Abu Ghraib began last August. Apparently you're
wrong.
Yes, I was aware of General Miller's fact finding trip to Iraq. The
problem with Abu Ghraib was a lack of leadership on the part of
General Karpinski. In Januray, when a soldier reported to the top
brass at Central Command what was going on in the middle of the night
(stripping prisoners and taking pictures of them), the soldiers
involved were removed from duty, and the Central Command immediately
reported the story to the press.
"Last August, the Department ordered General Geoffrey Miller - then in
charge at Camp X-Ray in Guantanamo Bay - to go to Iraq to find ways to
improve the flow of intelligence from detainees, an investigation by
Britain's Mail on Sunday newspaper has found."
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9519057%5E401,00.html
Somebody way high up had to make the decision that Gitmo's procedures
"worked"
and therefore should be put into place with Iraqi detainees.
Do you have a source for this? Or is this just *another* example of
your unsubstatiated drivel?
Apparently it did happen that way.
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9519057%5E401,00.html
The article makes no claim that General Miller told people to strip
the prisoners and take pictures of them ... which, according to all
the hysteria, must have included ordering the soldiers to pose and
smile for the camera.
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 06:10:34 PM |
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In article <a2b35e99.0405092115.6a8bd3b@posting.google.com>, (Steven Douglas) wrote:
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<e7znc.18095$hY.1236@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
In article <a2b35e99.0405091317.7e287a7d@posting.google.com>,
(Steven Douglas) wrote:
woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<dVsnc.17997$hY.65@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
There's new word coming out about the way detainees at Guantanamo Bay
were/are
treated to extract information, and the guy in charge of that was placed
in
charge of extracting information in Iraq. He demanded, and got, Abu
Ghraib
prison for that purpose.
When was the guy in charge of Guantanamo put in charge of Abu Ghraib?
Was it before or after those pictures were taken?
Before.
Wrong. Again. As usual. Those pictures were taken sometime last
November or December. General Miller wasn't appointed to take over
that prison until April 15 of this year.
You're incorrect, he was appointed in August/September of 2003:
From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4934436/
According to a subsequent inquiry by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, Miller's task was
"to review current Iraqi Theater ability to rapidly exploit internees for
actionable intelligence." Translated into English, that meant to beef up
interrogation techniques so as to break prisoners more quickly. Or as Karpinski
puts it, Miller's plan was to "Gitmo-ize" the place, to teach the soldiers
manning Abu Ghraib his best psychological and physical techniques for squeezing
information out of detainees. That included using Karpinski's MPs to "enhance
the intelligence effort." At a meeting of top military-intelligence and MP
commanders last September, Miller bluntly told Karpinski: "You're going to see.
We have control, and [the prisoners] know it."
<<
From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/ (timeline insert)
Aug. 31-Sept. 9, 2003
Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who runs the military prison for terror suspects at
Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, conducts an inquiry on interrogation and detention
procedures in Iraq. He suggests that prison guards can help set conditions for
the interrogation of prisoners.
October-December
Many of the alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib take place during this time period.
Oct. 13-Nov. 6
Maj. Gen. Donald Ryder, provost marshal of the Army, investigates conditions of
U.S.-run prisons in Iraq, including Abu Ghraib. He finds problems throughout the
prisons. Some units, including the 800th Military Police Brigade, did not
receive adequate training to guard prisons, he notes. He also says military
police (MPs) should not assist in making prisoners more pliable to
interrogation, as their job is to keep prisoners safe.
Nov. 19
The 205th Military Intelligence Brigade is given responsibility for Abu Ghraib
prison and authority over the 800th Military Police Brigade.
November
Two Iraqi detainees die in separate incidents that involved CIA interrogation
officers.
<<
Somebody way high up had to make the decision that Gitmo's procedures
"worked"
and therefore should be put into place with Iraqi detainees.
Do you have a source for this? Or is this just *another* example of
your unsubstatiated drivel?
It was on either CNN.com or MSNBC.com, per a discussion with the brigadier
general who was in charge of the MPs. Your ad hominem earns you a "go look
it
up for yourself".
I couldn't find it if I tried, since it doesn't exist.
Ha, I knew you wouldn't look it up. See above, lazybones.
This is getting more repulsive as information trickles out ...
What information is that? Do you have a source to back up your claim?
Or do you simply have an utter lack of regard for truth? With your
track record, it's got to be the latter.
All the personal attacks won't change the truth.
Wow ... you are amazing, you know? You are simply *wrong* way too
often -- and that is NOT a personal attack, it is just a fact.
With your track record, you're in no position to be trying to cast stones.
Woods
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 03:55:50 PM |
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"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<p9-dnS6Bd5TqAADdRVn-ig@adelphia.com>...
With Bush's "soldiers" not only abusing people but gleefully posing for
photographs while doing it, it's clear they have no fear of prosecution -
this goes all the way to the top.
And this most likely means that the pictures are intended by our rulers to
provoke a "terrorist" response on U.S. soil (so they can impose martial law)
and/or to widen the war.
With public opinion turning against them and their war, a desperate
Team-Bush must realize that both Bush's political career and the
neocon/Zionist plans for the Mideast are in serious jeopardy right now. They
need some serious "terrorist" retaliation and/or a wider war, and they need
it ASAP.
Really? If that's the case, why didn't they release the pictures when
this story was first reported in January? And if they really wanted to
incite the terrorists, why did they stop the abuse and announce it in
January if they didn't intend to release the pictures until now? Got
any answers to these questions? Go ahead, make up another story to
cover your first one.
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| User: "Joe" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 09:14:39 PM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405091255.2bfe1e97@posting.google.com...
"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:<p9-dnS6Bd5TqAADdRVn-ig@adelphia.com>...
With Bush's "soldiers" not only abusing people but gleefully posing for
photographs while doing it, it's clear they have no fear of
prosecution -
this goes all the way to the top.
And this most likely means that the pictures are intended by our rulers
to
provoke a "terrorist" response on U.S. soil (so they can impose martial
law)
and/or to widen the war.
With public opinion turning against them and their war, a desperate
Team-Bush must realize that both Bush's political career and the
neocon/Zionist plans for the Mideast are in serious jeopardy right now.
They
need some serious "terrorist" retaliation and/or a wider war, and they
need
it ASAP.
Really?
Really.
If that's the case, why didn't they release the pictures when
this story was first reported in January? And if they really wanted to
incite the terrorists, why did they stop the abuse and announce it in
January if they didn't intend to release the pictures until now?
Why didn't Harry stop drinking before he damaged his liver?
Why didn't Bill stop smoking before he got emphysema?
Why didn't the U.S. pull out of Vietnam in 1968?
How the hell do I know? I'm not privy to all the classified information that
Team-Bush has.
All I can do is speculate based on generally accepted facts and reasonable
inferences made therefrom: The situation in Iraq has been getting steadily
worse. *At some point* in recent months, Team-Bush must have accepted that
reality the U.S. cannot control Iraq, at least at any acceptable economic
and political cost.
So what to do now? Pull out in disgrace, leaving chaos, and creating a
country full of people with good reason to retaliate? Pull out and risk that
Americans may become sick of militarism and imperialism and the quest for
global domination? Risk the money flowing to the military-industrial
corporate crooks?
Faced with the these risks and the possibility of going down in history as
the worst U.S. President ever, Georgie may be willing to take a shot at
being the first military dictator of the U.S.
Based on everything he's done so far, it doesn't seem too unreasonable, does
it?
Got
any answers to these questions? Go ahead, make up another story to
cover your first one.
I'm sorry if the obvious fact that I was speculating went over your head. I
hope I've cleared things up for you.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 12:21:26 AM |
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"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<NaSdnf-hXKMbeAPdRVn-uQ@adelphia.com>...
I'm sorry if the obvious fact that I was speculating went over your head. I
hope I've cleared things up for you.
Of course you were speculating ... "spreading unsubstantiated rumors"
is another way of saying it.
"Making stuff up" is another way of saying it. "Writing fiction" is
another way of saying it. The list is endless.
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| User: "Joe" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 02:49:26 AM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405092121.3283fc9c@posting.google.com...
"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:<NaSdnf-hXKMbeAPdRVn-uQ@adelphia.com>...
I'm sorry if the obvious fact that I was speculating went over your
head. I
hope I've cleared things up for you.
Of course you were speculating ... "spreading unsubstantiated rumors"
is another way of saying it.
Ok, so you want to argue semantics.
It is "unsubstantiated rumor" in the same sense that saying "I'll see you
tomorrow" is "unsubstantiated rumor"; since no one knows with certainty that
they will see a certain person the next day, e.g., there is a finite
probability that either or both may die of a heart attack before tomorrow.
"Making stuff up" is another way of saying it. "Writing fiction" is
another way of saying it. The list is endless.
LOL! You don't know that it's definitely not true any more than I know that
it's definitely true. Therefore, when you state or imply that it is
definitely not true, without knowing for sure, you too are "making stuff
up". All you can logically state or imply is that I don't know for sure that
my scenario is true.
If someone says to you "I'll see you tomorrow", or, for example, if you call
your mechanic, and tell him your car is making noises and acting a certain
way, and he says to you, "your car might have a bad ball joint or a broken
strut", would you criticize them for "making stuff up"?
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 06:30:24 PM |
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In article <a2b35e99.0405092121.3283fc9c@posting.google.com>, (Steven Douglas) wrote:
"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:<NaSdnf-hXKMbeAPdRVn-uQ@adelphia.com>...
I'm sorry if the obvious fact that I was speculating went over your head. I
hope I've cleared things up for you.
Of course you were speculating ... "spreading unsubstantiated rumors"
is another way of saying it.
"Making stuff up" is another way of saying it. "Writing fiction" is
another way of saying it. The list is endless.
You do realize, do you not, that this group is all about speculating?
Woods
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| User: "Ex" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 04:07:26 PM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0405091255.2bfe1e97@posting.google.com...
"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:<p9-dnS6Bd5TqAADdRVn-ig@adelphia.com>...
With Bush's "soldiers" not only abusing people but gleefully posing for
photographs while doing it, it's clear they have no fear of
prosecution -
this goes all the way to the top.
And this most likely means that the pictures are intended by our rulers
to
provoke a "terrorist" response on U.S. soil (so they can impose martial
law)
and/or to widen the war.
With public opinion turning against them and their war, a desperate
Team-Bush must realize that both Bush's political career and the
neocon/Zionist plans for the Mideast are in serious jeopardy right now.
They
need some serious "terrorist" retaliation and/or a wider war, and they
need
it ASAP.
Really? If that's the case, why didn't they release the pictures when
this story was first reported in January?
Possible Admin pressure to keep things hush-hush, ya figure?? Do you see the
uproar they've created already?? And what's been released isn't the worst of
it ...
And if they really wanted to
incite the terrorists, why did they stop the abuse and announce it in
January if they didn't intend to release the pictures until now?
Really?? Source?? Has this been confirmed by the International Red Cross? If
so, then that's good. If not, then you're still full of *****.
Got any answers to these questions?
Yes ...
Go ahead, make up another story to cover your first one.
What story?? If you were doing something as despicable as what these
soldiers did, would you produce 'souveniers' and 'trophies' to pass around
if you felt you'd be persecuted?? If you were getting the 'OK' from above
then not likely. Go ahead, make up another excuse ...
-ex
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.676 / Virus Database: 438 - Release Date: 5/3/04
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| User: "cesar" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
09 May 2004 08:42:46 AM |
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A very astute analysis. That's the Big Picture. You are right on!
It's a Jihadi Bait so that those Islamic countries can in turn be
annihilated by massive nuclear retaliation.
The Final Solution. A New Clear War!
cesar
"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:p9-dnS6Bd5TqAADdRVn-ig@adelphia.com...
With Bush's "soldiers" not only abusing people but gleefully posing for
photographs while doing it, it's clear they have no fear of prosecution -
this goes all the way to the top.
And this most likely means that the pictures are intended by our rulers to
provoke a "terrorist" response on U.S. soil (so they can impose martial
law)
and/or to widen the war.
With public opinion turning against them and their war, a desperate
Team-Bush must realize that both Bush's political career and the
neocon/Zionist plans for the Mideast are in serious jeopardy right now.
They
need some serious "terrorist" retaliation and/or a wider war, and they
need
it ASAP.
.
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| User: "banana splits" |
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| Title: Re: Torture Pictures Are An Act of Desperation |
10 May 2004 04:00:57 AM |
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"cesar" <cesar@no.email> wrote in message news:<qzqnc.6890$pp.2912@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
A very astute analysis. That's the Big Picture. You are right on!
It's a Jihadi Bait so that those Islamic countries can in turn be
annihilated by massive nuclear retaliation.
The Final Solution. A New Clear War!
======================================================================
& I was just beginning to take a liking to this world, Cesar !!!!
Dang shame !!!!
Best............
Uncle Wally ;-)
=====================================================================
cesar
"Joe" <jpsmith123@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:p9-dnS6Bd5TqAADdRVn-ig@adelphia.com...
With Bush's "soldiers" not only abusing people but gleefully posing for
photographs while doing it, it's clear they have no fear of prosecution -
this goes all the way to the top.
And this most likely means that the pictures are intended by our rulers to
provoke a "terrorist" response on U.S. soil (so they can impose martial
law)
and/or to widen the war.
With public opinion turning against them and their war, a desperate
Team-Bush must realize that both Bush's political career and the
neocon/Zionist plans for the Mideast are in serious jeopardy right now.
They
need some serious "terrorist" retaliation and/or a wider war, and they
need
it ASAP.
.
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