United ***** Running Away



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Topic: Science > Prophecies-Of-Nostradamus
User: "AK"
Date: 21 Jul 2004 05:05:44 AM
Object: United ***** Running Away
In the face of stubborn insurgency, troops scale back Anbar patrols
By Tom Lasseter
Knight Ridder Newspapers
RAMADI, Iraq - After more than a year of fighting, U.S. troops have
stopped patrolling large swaths of Iraq's restive Anbar province,
according to the top American military intelligence officer in the area.
Most U.S. Army officers interviewed this week said the patrols in and
around the province's capital, Ramadi - home to many Iraqi military and
intelligence officers under Saddam Hussein - have stopped largely because
the soldiers and commanders there were tired of being shot at by
insurgents who've refused to back down under heavy American military
pressure.
Asked for comment, officials from the 2nd Battalion 4th Marines in Ramadi
- which makes up about one-fifth of the forces there - provided a
21-year-old corporal, who confirmed that the Marines have discontinued
patrols, but said it was because of the hand-over of sovereignty to the
interim Iraqi government.
While American officials in Ramadi wouldn't provide exact figures for the
change in numbers of patrols, there's obviously been a significant drop.
After losing dozens of men to a "voiceless, faceless mass of people" with
no clear leadership or political aim other than killing American soldiers,
the U.S. military has had to re-evaluate the situation, said Army Maj.
Thomas Neemeyer, the head American intelligence officer for the 1st
Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division, the main military force in the
Ramadi area and from there to Fallujah.
"They cannot militarily overwhelm us, but we cannot deliver a knockout
blow, either," he said. "It creates a form of stalemate."
In the wreckage of the security situation, Neemeyer said, U.S. officials
have all but given up on plans to install a democratic government in the
city, and are hoping instead that Islamic extremists and other insurgent
groups don't overrun the province in the same way that they've seized the
region's most infamous town, Fallujah.
"Since Ramadi is the seat of the governate, we worry that if they could
unsettle the government center here they could destabilize the al Anbar
province," said Capt. Joe Jasper, a spokesman for the 1st Brigade.
The apparent failure of a long line of Army and Marine units to bring
peace to the province, which makes up about 40 percent of Iraq's landmass,
will be a major challenge for Iraq's new government and could prove to be
a tipping point for the nation as a whole. Increasingly, Iraq is a place
in which cities or part of cities have been taken over by insurgents and
radicals.
U.S. officers in Ramadi openly acknowledge that the Iraqi security force
trained to take over the hunt for insurgents, the national guard, has
become a site-protection service that so far is incapable and unwilling to
conduct offensive operations.
When the governor of Anbar left town last month, the head of the national
guard, who since has been replaced, took part in an attempt to overthrow
him. National guardsmen in town have refused to go on patrols either alone
or with the Americans. The 2,886 national guardsmen in Ramadi so far have
detained just one person.
To show how operations in Anbar have changed, Jasper sketched a map on a
piece of paper.
Pointing to a neighborhood outside the town of Habbaniyah, between
Fallujah and Ramadi, he said, "We've lost a lot of Marines there and we
don't ever go in anymore. If they want it that bad, they can have it."
And then to a spot on the western edge of Fallujah: "We find that if we
don't go there, they won't shoot us."
Marine Cpl. Charles Laversdorf, who works in his battalion's intelligence
unit, said the Marines averaged just five raids a month and no longer were
running any patrols other than those to observation posts.
The sharp reduction in patrols flies in the face of comments made recently
by a top military official in Baghdad, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
"Any insurgent that ... somehow thinks that after June 28 we'll be pulling
back into base camps will be disappointed," he said. "This is a long-term
program of handing over responsibility. ... It's not going to take days
nor weeks, it's going to be months and years."
More than 124 U.S. troops have died in Anbar since President Bush declared
major combat operations over in Iraq on May 1, 2003.
Between the 1st Brigade's 4,000 soldiers, who arrived in Ramadi last
September, and a battalion of 1,000 Marines, who came in February, more
than 80 have been killed and more than 450 injured.
Since the hand-over of sovereignty June 28, 25 U.S. soldiers have been
killed. Fifteen of them were in Anbar.
The numbers grow more striking at smaller unit levels.
Capt. Mike Taylor, for example, commands a company of men in nearby
Khaldiya. Out of his 76 troops, 18 now have purple hearts, awarded for
combat wounds.
The Marines' Echo company, with 185 members, has had 22 killed.
"There's a possibility that we'll say we'll protect the government and
keep travel routes open, and for the rest of them, to hell with 'em," said
Neemeyer, the intelligence officer. "To a certain degree we've already
done it; we've reduced our presence."
Neemeyer continued: "I'm sure they are beating their chests and saying
they drove us out, but what have they driven us out of? Rural farmland
that's not tactically important. ... If they want to call that victory,
that's fine."
Looking up at a map on the wall, Neemeyer flicked his laser pointer across
a large piece of land between Ramadi and Fallujah. "We don't go into that
area anymore," he said. "Why go there when all that happens is we get hit?"
The U.S. military has poured about $18 million into reconstruction
projects in Ramadi, but Neemeyer said the projects hadn't done much in the
way of winning people over.
"The only way to stomp out the insurgency of the mind," he said, "would be
to kill the entire population."
The commander of one of the local national guard battalions, Col. Adnan
Allawi, said he thought the security situation in Ramadi and Anbar in
general would only get worse.
"If the Americans stay here, the same thing that happened in Fallujah will
happen in Ramadi," he said. "If the situation stays the way it is now, the
Americans will begin losing one city after the next."
Residents in Ramadi had long said the U.S. military underestimated the
resolve of fighters in the area. Also, residents said, soldiers made
community support for the resistance stronger with each cultural misstep,
such as brusque house raids and cultural slights toward important tribal
sheiks.
Many of those interviewed in Ramadi recently said they'd welcome a
Fallujah-like rule by insurgents.
Bashar Hamid, a stationery store owner, said "only the mujahedeen (holy
warriors) can provide stability."
Muhanad Muhammed, a pharmacist, agreed: "The Americans misbehave ...
that's why I do not blame the mujahedeen when they attack them."
Capt. John Mountford, who oversees a central command office in Ramadi for
local police, national guard and U.S. military officials, said that in
retrospect the military should've paid more attention to what the Iraqis
were saying.
"We should have worked with the tribal leaders earlier," he said. "I just
wonder what would have happened if we had worked a little more with the
locals."
---
(Knight Ridder Newspapers special correspondent Omar Jassim contributed to
this report.)
---
(c) 2004, Knight Ridder/Tribune Information Services.
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9200682.htm
.

User: "ZenIsWhen"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 21 Jul 2004 10:08:16 AM
"AK" <someoneNasty@hotmails.com> wrote in message
news:2sfsf0hqkb8mem0vp9to09s7ikuq9s6sl0@4ax.com...

In the face of stubborn insurgency, troops scale back Anbar patrols

By Tom Lasseter

Knight Ridder Newspapers

RAMADI, Iraq - After more than a year of fighting, U.S. troops have
stopped patrolling large swaths of Iraq's restive Anbar province,
according to the top American military intelligence officer in the area.

Most U.S. Army officers interviewed this week said the patrols in and
around the province's capital, Ramadi - home to many Iraqi military and
intelligence officers under Saddam Hussein - have stopped largely because
the soldiers and commanders there were tired of being shot at by
insurgents who've refused to back down under heavy American military
pressure.

Asked for comment, officials from the 2nd Battalion 4th Marines in Ramadi
- which makes up about one-fifth of the forces there - provided a
21-year-old corporal, who confirmed that the Marines have discontinued
patrols, but said it was because of the hand-over of sovereignty to the
interim Iraqi government.

While American officials in Ramadi wouldn't provide exact figures for the
change in numbers of patrols, there's obviously been a significant drop.

After losing dozens of men to a "voiceless, faceless mass of people" with
no clear leadership or political aim other than killing American soldiers,
the U.S. military has had to re-evaluate the situation, said Army Maj.
Thomas Neemeyer, the head American intelligence officer for the 1st
Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division, the main military force in the
Ramadi area and from there to Fallujah.

"They cannot militarily overwhelm us, but we cannot deliver a knockout
blow, either," he said. "It creates a form of stalemate."

Now if THAT doesn't sound like Vietnam - I don't know what does!!!!!


In the wreckage of the security situation, Neemeyer said, U.S. officials
have all but given up on plans to install a democratic government in the
city, and are hoping instead that Islamic extremists and other insurgent
groups don't overrun the province in the same way that they've seized the
region's most infamous town, Fallujah.

"Since Ramadi is the seat of the governate, we worry that if they could
unsettle the government center here they could destabilize the al Anbar
province," said Capt. Joe Jasper, a spokesman for the 1st Brigade.

The apparent failure of a long line of Army and Marine units to bring
peace to the province, which makes up about 40 percent of Iraq's landmass,
will be a major challenge for Iraq's new government and could prove to be
a tipping point for the nation as a whole. Increasingly, Iraq is a place
in which cities or part of cities have been taken over by insurgents and
radicals.

U.S. officers in Ramadi openly acknowledge that the Iraqi security force
trained to take over the hunt for insurgents, the national guard, has
become a site-protection service that so far is incapable and unwilling to
conduct offensive operations.

When the governor of Anbar left town last month, the head of the national
guard, who since has been replaced, took part in an attempt to overthrow
him. National guardsmen in town have refused to go on patrols either alone
or with the Americans. The 2,886 national guardsmen in Ramadi so far have
detained just one person.

To show how operations in Anbar have changed, Jasper sketched a map on a
piece of paper.

Pointing to a neighborhood outside the town of Habbaniyah, between
Fallujah and Ramadi, he said, "We've lost a lot of Marines there and we
don't ever go in anymore. If they want it that bad, they can have it."

And then to a spot on the western edge of Fallujah: "We find that if we
don't go there, they won't shoot us."

Marine Cpl. Charles Laversdorf, who works in his battalion's intelligence
unit, said the Marines averaged just five raids a month and no longer were
running any patrols other than those to observation posts.

The sharp reduction in patrols flies in the face of comments made recently
by a top military official in Baghdad, who spoke on condition of

anonymity.


"Any insurgent that ... somehow thinks that after June 28 we'll be pulling
back into base camps will be disappointed," he said. "This is a long-term
program of handing over responsibility. ... It's not going to take days
nor weeks, it's going to be months and years."

More than 124 U.S. troops have died in Anbar since President Bush declared
major combat operations over in Iraq on May 1, 2003.

Between the 1st Brigade's 4,000 soldiers, who arrived in Ramadi last
September, and a battalion of 1,000 Marines, who came in February, more
than 80 have been killed and more than 450 injured.

Since the hand-over of sovereignty June 28, 25 U.S. soldiers have been
killed. Fifteen of them were in Anbar.

The numbers grow more striking at smaller unit levels.

Capt. Mike Taylor, for example, commands a company of men in nearby
Khaldiya. Out of his 76 troops, 18 now have purple hearts, awarded for
combat wounds.

The Marines' Echo company, with 185 members, has had 22 killed.

"There's a possibility that we'll say we'll protect the government and
keep travel routes open, and for the rest of them, to hell with 'em," said
Neemeyer, the intelligence officer. "To a certain degree we've already
done it; we've reduced our presence."

Neemeyer continued: "I'm sure they are beating their chests and saying
they drove us out, but what have they driven us out of? Rural farmland
that's not tactically important. ... If they want to call that victory,
that's fine."

Looking up at a map on the wall, Neemeyer flicked his laser pointer across
a large piece of land between Ramadi and Fallujah. "We don't go into that
area anymore," he said. "Why go there when all that happens is we get

hit?"


The U.S. military has poured about $18 million into reconstruction
projects in Ramadi, but Neemeyer said the projects hadn't done much in the
way of winning people over.

"The only way to stomp out the insurgency of the mind," he said, "would be
to kill the entire population."

The commander of one of the local national guard battalions, Col. Adnan
Allawi, said he thought the security situation in Ramadi and Anbar in
general would only get worse.

"If the Americans stay here, the same thing that happened in Fallujah will
happen in Ramadi," he said. "If the situation stays the way it is now, the
Americans will begin losing one city after the next."

Residents in Ramadi had long said the U.S. military underestimated the
resolve of fighters in the area. Also, residents said, soldiers made
community support for the resistance stronger with each cultural misstep,
such as brusque house raids and cultural slights toward important tribal
sheiks.

Many of those interviewed in Ramadi recently said they'd welcome a
Fallujah-like rule by insurgents.

Bashar Hamid, a stationery store owner, said "only the mujahedeen (holy
warriors) can provide stability."

Muhanad Muhammed, a pharmacist, agreed: "The Americans misbehave ...
that's why I do not blame the mujahedeen when they attack them."

Capt. John Mountford, who oversees a central command office in Ramadi for
local police, national guard and U.S. military officials, said that in
retrospect the military should've paid more attention to what the Iraqis
were saying.

"We should have worked with the tribal leaders earlier," he said. "I just
wonder what would have happened if we had worked a little more with the
locals."

---

(Knight Ridder Newspapers special correspondent Omar Jassim contributed to
this report.)

---

(c) 2004, Knight Ridder/Tribune Information Services.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9200682.htm

.
User: "Jane"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 21 Jul 2004 05:31:28 PM
"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:10ft1murtq9ujb2@corp.supernews.com...


"AK" <someoneNasty@hotmails.com> wrote in message
news:2sfsf0hqkb8mem0vp9to09s7ikuq9s6sl0@4ax.com...

In the face of stubborn insurgency, troops scale back Anbar patrols

By Tom Lasseter

Knight Ridder Newspapers

RAMADI, Iraq - After more than a year of fighting, U.S. troops have
stopped patrolling large swaths of Iraq's restive Anbar province,
according to the top American military intelligence officer in the area.

Most U.S. Army officers interviewed this week said the patrols in and
around the province's capital, Ramadi - home to many Iraqi military and
intelligence officers under Saddam Hussein - have stopped largely

because

the soldiers and commanders there were tired of being shot at by
insurgents who've refused to back down under heavy American military
pressure.

Asked for comment, officials from the 2nd Battalion 4th Marines in

Ramadi

- which makes up about one-fifth of the forces there - provided a
21-year-old corporal, who confirmed that the Marines have discontinued
patrols, but said it was because of the hand-over of sovereignty to the
interim Iraqi government.

While American officials in Ramadi wouldn't provide exact figures for

the

change in numbers of patrols, there's obviously been a significant drop.

After losing dozens of men to a "voiceless, faceless mass of people"

with

no clear leadership or political aim other than killing American

soldiers,

the U.S. military has had to re-evaluate the situation, said Army Maj.
Thomas Neemeyer, the head American intelligence officer for the 1st
Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division, the main military force in the
Ramadi area and from there to Fallujah.

"They cannot militarily overwhelm us, but we cannot deliver a knockout
blow, either," he said. "It creates a form of stalemate."


Now if THAT doesn't sound like Vietnam - I don't know what does!!!!!

Vietnam was lost because of politics.
Jane
.
User: "G,B.A"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 21 Jul 2004 05:45:14 PM
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:31:28 -0400, "Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com>
wrote:


"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:10ft1murtq9ujb2@corp.supernews.com...


"AK" <someoneNasty@hotmails.com> wrote in message
news:2sfsf0hqkb8mem0vp9to09s7ikuq9s6sl0@4ax.com...

In the face of stubborn insurgency, troops scale back Anbar patrols

By Tom Lasseter

Knight Ridder Newspapers

RAMADI, Iraq - After more than a year of fighting, U.S. troops have
stopped patrolling large swaths of Iraq's restive Anbar province,
according to the top American military intelligence officer in the area.

Most U.S. Army officers interviewed this week said the patrols in and
around the province's capital, Ramadi - home to many Iraqi military and
intelligence officers under Saddam Hussein - have stopped largely

because

the soldiers and commanders there were tired of being shot at by
insurgents who've refused to back down under heavy American military
pressure.

Asked for comment, officials from the 2nd Battalion 4th Marines in

Ramadi

- which makes up about one-fifth of the forces there - provided a
21-year-old corporal, who confirmed that the Marines have discontinued
patrols, but said it was because of the hand-over of sovereignty to the
interim Iraqi government.

While American officials in Ramadi wouldn't provide exact figures for

the

change in numbers of patrols, there's obviously been a significant drop.

After losing dozens of men to a "voiceless, faceless mass of people"

with

no clear leadership or political aim other than killing American

soldiers,

the U.S. military has had to re-evaluate the situation, said Army Maj.
Thomas Neemeyer, the head American intelligence officer for the 1st
Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division, the main military force in the
Ramadi area and from there to Fallujah.

"They cannot militarily overwhelm us, but we cannot deliver a knockout
blow, either," he said. "It creates a form of stalemate."


Now if THAT doesn't sound like Vietnam - I don't know what does!!!!!

Vietnam was lost because of politics.

Jane

I respect you.. You are the only liberal in this group that has the
courage to say exactly how you feel about the U.S Military.. Even
though you called them "Pussies" You showed courage for your
convictions.
.
User: "Sam Wilson"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 21 Jul 2004 06:37:43 PM
"G,B.A" <Nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:fgstf0t38ai6ap8bnqlogfkj0ed1vke7fv@4ax.com...

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:31:28 -0400, "Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com>
wrote:


"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:10ft1murtq9ujb2@corp.supernews.com...


"AK" <someoneNasty@hotmails.com> wrote in message
news:2sfsf0hqkb8mem0vp9to09s7ikuq9s6sl0@4ax.com...
Now if THAT doesn't sound like Vietnam - I don't know what does!!!!!

Vietnam was lost because of politics.

Jane

I respect you.. You are the only liberal in this group that has the
courage to say exactly how you feel about the U.S Military.. Even
though you called them "Pussies" You showed courage for your
convictions.

Meet another here who thinks the current policies in the mideast are dead
wrong, but who stands behind the Americans who sacrifice daily to do their
duties in uniform. The unselfish volunteers that make up the US military
should be honored and saluted for all they have done, and those of past
generations should be honored by all Americans. Too bad the current
administration in Washington treats them like crap and sends them out to
become targets....our troops deserve better than they are getting. They
have, and still are, earning it daily.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.723 / Virus Database: 479 - Release Date: 7/19/2004
.

User: "AK"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 22 Jul 2004 04:10:17 AM
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:45:14 GMT, "G,B.A" <Nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:

You are the only liberal in this group that has the
courage to say exactly how you feel about the U.S Military..

Liberal? I thought she was a rightwing nut.
.
User: "Jane"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 24 Jul 2004 02:28:35 PM
"AK" <someoneNasty@hotmails.com> wrote in message
news:p11vf09infb8v0suvjesnv7d8723r6mvql@4ax.com...

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:45:14 GMT, "G,B.A" <Nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:

You are the only liberal in this group that has the
courage to say exactly how you feel about the U.S Military..


Liberal? I thought she was a rightwing nut.

I think he must have answered the wrong post! His answer doesn't fit what I
posted. I am right wing, yes, but I think "nut" applies more to yourself.
Jane


.



User: "Cuan"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 22 Jul 2004 07:28:14 AM
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:31:28 -0400, "Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com>
wrote:


"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:10ft1murtq9ujb2@corp.supernews.com...


"AK" <someoneNasty@hotmails.com> wrote in message
news:2sfsf0hqkb8mem0vp9to09s7ikuq9s6sl0@4ax.com...

In the face of stubborn insurgency, troops scale back Anbar patrols

By Tom Lasseter

Knight Ridder Newspapers

RAMADI, Iraq - After more than a year of fighting, U.S. troops have
stopped patrolling large swaths of Iraq's restive Anbar province,
according to the top American military intelligence officer in the area.

Most U.S. Army officers interviewed this week said the patrols in and
around the province's capital, Ramadi - home to many Iraqi military and
intelligence officers under Saddam Hussein - have stopped largely

because

the soldiers and commanders there were tired of being shot at by
insurgents who've refused to back down under heavy American military
pressure.

Asked for comment, officials from the 2nd Battalion 4th Marines in

Ramadi

- which makes up about one-fifth of the forces there - provided a
21-year-old corporal, who confirmed that the Marines have discontinued
patrols, but said it was because of the hand-over of sovereignty to the
interim Iraqi government.

While American officials in Ramadi wouldn't provide exact figures for

the

change in numbers of patrols, there's obviously been a significant drop.

After losing dozens of men to a "voiceless, faceless mass of people"

with

no clear leadership or political aim other than killing American

soldiers,

the U.S. military has had to re-evaluate the situation, said Army Maj.
Thomas Neemeyer, the head American intelligence officer for the 1st
Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division, the main military force in the
Ramadi area and from there to Fallujah.

"They cannot militarily overwhelm us, but we cannot deliver a knockout
blow, either," he said. "It creates a form of stalemate."


Now if THAT doesn't sound like Vietnam - I don't know what does!!!!!

Vietnam was lost because of politics.

yeah right!
That's what ended it, not what lost it.
.

User: "AK"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 22 Jul 2004 03:05:05 AM
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:31:28 -0400, "Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote:

Now if THAT doesn't sound like Vietnam - I don't know what does!!!!!

Vietnam was lost because of politics.

That's how most colonial wars are lost. French killed a million Algerians, but
that didn't end the resistance. But French were not military defeated. Americans
killed a million Vietnamese but that didn't end the resistance. You wouldn't
have anti-war protests if there was no resistance.
How did British lose India? If not politics, then? Explain that for us.
.
User: "TonyZ2001"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 22 Jul 2004 07:06:59 AM
Just one look at the posts in this thread shows the utter hatred toward America
by the people of this group.
And take notice that all of those that agree with Saddam remain slilent while
these bastards insult our soldiers.
Tony
.
User: "Jane"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 24 Jul 2004 02:31:31 PM
"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040722080659.03945.00000286@mb-m17.aol.com...

Just one look at the posts in this thread shows the utter hatred toward

America

by the people of this group.

And take notice that all of those that agree with Saddam remain slilent

while

these bastards insult our soldiers.

Tony

Right you are, Tony. I personally don't understand this hatred of
America...it is sad. I am grateful to America because I know that Canada
would not exist in its present form without the big policeman to the south!
Jane
.
User: "R. Foreman"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 24 Jul 2004 03:31:32 PM
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> Spat the Words


"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040722080659.03945.00000286@mb-m17.aol.com...

Just one look at the posts in this thread shows the utter hatred toward

America

by the people of this group.

And take notice that all of those that agree with Saddam remain slilent

while

these bastards insult our soldiers.

Tony


Right you are, Tony. I personally don't understand this hatred of
America...it is sad. I am grateful to America because I know that Canada
would not exist in its present form without the big policeman to the south!

A lot of the hate messages are coming from non-Americans.
It's probably a mixture of fear and envy. They fear the power
and control America has, and they envy what they perceive
as a high lifestyle with material abundance.


Jane


.
User: "Jane"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 24 Jul 2004 09:11:40 PM
"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns953093C35E3C1rrfkwrantispamattbic@63.240.76.16...

"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> Spat the Words


"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040722080659.03945.00000286@mb-m17.aol.com...

Just one look at the posts in this thread shows the utter hatred toward

America

by the people of this group.

And take notice that all of those that agree with Saddam remain slilent

while

these bastards insult our soldiers.

Tony


Right you are, Tony. I personally don't understand this hatred of
America...it is sad. I am grateful to America because I know that

Canada

would not exist in its present form without the big policeman to the

south!


A lot of the hate messages are coming from non-Americans.
It's probably a mixture of fear and envy. They fear the power
and control America has, and they envy what they perceive
as a high lifestyle with material abundance.

I agree. Much of it is envy, methinks.
Jane



Jane



.
User: "Mark"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 25 Jul 2004 01:39:25 AM
"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sFEMc.46644$Gf7.1669604@news20.bellglobal.com...


"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns953093C35E3C1rrfkwrantispamattbic@63.240.76.16...

A lot of the hate messages are coming from non-Americans.
It's probably a mixture of fear and envy. They fear the power
and control America has, and they envy what they perceive
as a high lifestyle with material abundance.

I agree. Much of it is envy, methinks.

"The only good thing appears to be that Bush in the awareness of his power
will commit enough stupidities to bring the whole world against him."
Oh... wait a minute... that was what Einstein said about Hitler!!!
Sorry... I'm SURE this doesn't apply to that wanker Bush or the
Military-Industrial complex that the world knows as America!
And as far as Canada is concerned... we attacked you once, we'll attack you
again!!!
;)
.
User: "R. Foreman"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 25 Jul 2004 09:30:46 AM
"Mark" <mburggra1@earthlink.net> Spat the Words


"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sFEMc.46644$Gf7.1669604@news20.bellglobal.com...


"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns953093C35E3C1rrfkwrantispamattbic@63.240.76.16...

A lot of the hate messages are coming from non-Americans.
It's probably a mixture of fear and envy. They fear the power
and control America has, and they envy what they perceive
as a high lifestyle with material abundance.

I agree. Much of it is envy, methinks.


"The only good thing appears to be that Bush in the awareness of his

power

will commit enough stupidities to bring the whole world against him."

Bush does appear to be his own worst enemy. If only he knew
how to make friends (instead of using all his father's friends).


Oh... wait a minute... that was what Einstein said about Hitler!!!

Sorry... I'm SURE this doesn't apply to that wanker Bush or the
Military-Industrial complex that the world knows as America!

I think we can produce far more war material than we can man
it with.


And as far as Canada is concerned... we attacked you once, we'll attack

you

again!!!
;)

Good luck. We attacked you once also.




.
User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 25 Jul 2004 04:11:58 PM
"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Xns95315698F2C71rrfkwrantispamattbic@216.148.227.77>...

"Mark" <mburggra1@earthlink.net> Spat the Words

Bush does appear to be his own worst enemy. If only he knew
how to make friends (instead of using all his father's friends).


Actually Bill Clintons method was easy enough that you could do it.
For example,
Bill Clinton: Hey Zemin I got the high-technology to sell you at a
good price and I got markets so you can make money from us to use to
buy our high-tech military equipment. Then you can use this military
equipment to take over Tiawan then eventually the U.S.A.
Zemin: Ohhh Bill you are my Dear Friend.
Quite easy I saw, this friends making business. ;)
http://prophet.michaelreport.com/nostradamus/1999/beasts/dearfriend/index.htm
.
User: "tw"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 26 Jul 2004 06:41:41 AM
"Michael Johnathan McDonald" <abookoflife@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dd3256f0.0407251311.b04aadd@posting.google.com...

"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message

news:<Xns95315698F2C71rrfkwrantispamattbic@216.148.227.77>...

"Mark" <mburggra1@earthlink.net> Spat the Words




Bush does appear to be his own worst enemy. If only he knew
how to make friends (instead of using all his father's friends).



Actually Bill Clintons method was easy enough that you could do it.


For example,


Bill Clinton: Hey Zemin I got the high-technology to sell you at a
good price and I got markets so you can make money from us to use to
buy our high-tech military equipment. Then you can use this military
equipment to take over Tiawan then eventually the U.S.A.

How do you feel about the enormous amounts of military equipment Israel has
sold to China?
.
User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 26 Jul 2004 01:21:41 PM
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:<ce2qgj$lss$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...

"Michael Johnathan McDonald" <abookoflife@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dd3256f0.0407251311.b04aadd@posting.google.com...

"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message

news:<Xns95315698F2C71rrfkwrantispamattbic@216.148.227.77>...

"Mark" <mburggra1@earthlink.net> Spat the Words




Bush does appear to be his own worst enemy. If only he knew
how to make friends (instead of using all his father's friends).



Actually Bill Clintons method was easy enough that you could do it.


For example,


Bill Clinton: Hey Zemin I got the high-technology to sell you at a
good price and I got markets so you can make money from us to use to
buy our high-tech military equipment. Then you can use this military
equipment to take over Tiawan then eventually the U.S.A.


How do you feel about the enormous amounts of military equipment Israel has
sold to China?

The same.
.
User: "tw"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 27 Jul 2004 03:41:34 AM
"Michael Johnathan McDonald" <abookoflife@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dd3256f0.0407261021.7de1bf21@posting.google.com...

"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message

news:<ce2qgj$lss$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...

"Michael Johnathan McDonald" <abookoflife@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dd3256f0.0407251311.b04aadd@posting.google.com...

"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message

news:<Xns95315698F2C71rrfkwrantispamattbic@216.148.227.77>...

"Mark" <mburggra1@earthlink.net> Spat the Words




Bush does appear to be his own worst enemy. If only he knew
how to make friends (instead of using all his father's friends).



Actually Bill Clintons method was easy enough that you could do it.


For example,


Bill Clinton: Hey Zemin I got the high-technology to sell you at a
good price and I got markets so you can make money from us to use to
buy our high-tech military equipment. Then you can use this military
equipment to take over Tiawan then eventually the U.S.A.


How do you feel about the enormous amounts of military equipment Israel

has

sold to China?



The same.

So you hate Israel as much as you hate Clinton eh?
.
User: "Cuan"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 27 Jul 2004 06:21:12 AM
On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 10:41:34 +0200, "tw" <no@no.com> wrote:


"Michael Johnathan McDonald" <abookoflife@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dd3256f0.0407261021.7de1bf21@posting.google.com...

"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message

news:<ce2qgj$lss$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...

"Michael Johnathan McDonald" <abookoflife@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dd3256f0.0407251311.b04aadd@posting.google.com...

"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message

news:<Xns95315698F2C71rrfkwrantispamattbic@216.148.227.77>...

"Mark" <mburggra1@earthlink.net> Spat the Words




Bush does appear to be his own worst enemy. If only he knew
how to make friends (instead of using all his father's friends).



Actually Bill Clintons method was easy enough that you could do it.


For example,


Bill Clinton: Hey Zemin I got the high-technology to sell you at a
good price and I got markets so you can make money from us to use to
buy our high-tech military equipment. Then you can use this military
equipment to take over Tiawan then eventually the U.S.A.


How do you feel about the enormous amounts of military equipment Israel

has

sold to China?



The same.


So you hate Israel as much as you hate Clinton eh?

perhaps we should get Jean's take on this one, hmm? ;-)
.
User: "Tadapope"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 27 Jul 2004 07:57:15 PM
I predict this is a sign that Michael Jackson
will flee the USA on United Airlines to a
country where he can't be extradited.
He may even take Martha Stewart with him!
Tangents are infinite in all of nature in
all 21 universes constantly and at random.
Oh Joy & Lysergically Yours!
Tom
The Psychedelick Pope
Patron Saint of the Internet
Saint Isadore of Laytonville
http://www.apple2.org.za/gswv/me/
.
User: "Cuan"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 28 Jul 2004 02:45:12 AM
On 28 Jul 2004 00:57:15 GMT,
(Tadapope) wrote:

I predict this is a sign that Michael Jackson
will flee the USA on United Airlines to a
country where he can't be extradited.

of course he could always go and live with McDonald. I'm sure he's
looking for a decent urine dispenser.
.




User: "Cuan"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 27 Jul 2004 01:41:13 AM
On 26 Jul 2004 11:21:41 -0700,
(Michael
Johnathan McDonald) wrote:

"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:<ce2qgj$lss$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...

"Michael Johnathan McDonald" <

> wrote in message
news:dd3256f0.0407251311.b04aadd@posting.google.com...

"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message

news:<Xns95315698F2C71rrfkwrantispamattbic@216.148.227.77>...

"Mark" <mburggra1@earthlink.net> Spat the Words




Bush does appear to be his own worst enemy. If only he knew
how to make friends (instead of using all his father's friends).



Actually Bill Clintons method was easy enough that you could do it.


For example,


Bill Clinton: Hey Zemin I got the high-technology to sell you at a
good price and I got markets so you can make money from us to use to
buy our high-tech military equipment. Then you can use this military
equipment to take over Tiawan then eventually the U.S.A.


How do you feel about the enormous amounts of military equipment Israel has
sold to China?



The same.

you anti-semite terrorist *****-kissing loser!
.







User: "Grantland"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 25 Jul 2004 12:42:05 AM
"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:

"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> Spat the Words


"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040722080659.03945.00000286@mb-m17.aol.com...

Just one look at the posts in this thread shows the utter hatred toward

America

by the people of this group.

And take notice that all of those that agree with Saddam remain slilent

while

these bastards insult our soldiers.

Tony


Right you are, Tony. I personally don't understand this hatred of
America...it is sad. I am grateful to America because I know that Canada
would not exist in its present form without the big policeman to the south!


A lot of the hate messages are coming from non-Americans.
It's probably a mixture of fear and envy. They fear the power
and control America has, and they envy what they perceive
as a high lifestyle with material abundance.

Stupid pig. You're as dumb as she is.
Grantland
.

User: "Cuan"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 26 Jul 2004 01:32:24 AM
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 20:31:32 GMT, "R. Foreman"
<eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote:

"Jane" <pushlinque@hotmail.com> Spat the Words


"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040722080659.03945.00000286@mb-m17.aol.com...

Just one look at the posts in this thread shows the utter hatred toward

America

by the people of this group.

And take notice that all of those that agree with Saddam remain slilent

while

these bastards insult our soldiers.

Tony


Right you are, Tony. I personally don't understand this hatred of
America...it is sad. I am grateful to America because I know that Canada
would not exist in its present form without the big policeman to the south!


A lot of the hate messages are coming from non-Americans.
It's probably a mixture of fear and envy. They fear the power
and control America has, and they envy what they perceive
as a high lifestyle with material abundance.

Don't misperceive too much, Mr. Foreman.
The words I would use are perhaps Anger and Frustration. Anger that
the US feels they can steamroll over international law and disregard
the feelings of 80% of the world, and frustration that there appears
to be nothing that can/will be done about it.
I hope I didn't burst your bubble.
As a wise man once stated (in a galaxy far, far away): "Fear leads to
Anger, Anger leads to Hate, and Hate leads to Suffering."
.



User: "Krib"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 22 Jul 2004 02:26:10 PM
"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040722080659.03945.00000286@mb-m17.aol.com...

Just one look at the posts in this thread shows the utter hatred toward

America

by the people of this group.

Read to me like the OP deliberately cross-posted an obviously inflammatory
piece and got the reaction they wanted from suckers like you.

And take notice that all of those that agree with Saddam remain slilent

while

these bastards insult our soldiers.

And take notice that you deliberately removed all of the other groups and
then whine like this in a pathetic attempt to give your lie about supporters
od saddam hussein some credence. You still haven't shown a single post to
back up your lie, why's that perve, can't find any huh? I'm sure the massed
brainpower of you and the GSR can find at least 1 single post that backs
up your point, after all if you can't then you're lying *again* so how is it
you can't even do that?
--
krib
.

User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 22 Jul 2004 12:58:31 PM
(TonyZ2001) wrote in message news:<20040722080659.03945.00000286@mb-m17.aol.com>...

Just one look at the posts in this thread shows the utter hatred toward America
by the people of this group.

And take notice that all of those that agree with Saddam remain slilent while
these bastards insult our soldiers.

Tony

I say AK is en rout to get a hold of Al' Qaeda to bring in dirty bombs
into America.
"Americunts? Who told you I am Muslim? You are not going to do *****
anyway, *****. The final solution still makes sense to me: 10 to 20
briefcase nukes. You are not going to do ***** after that." - AK ,
2004.
.

User: "Cuan"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 22 Jul 2004 07:38:17 AM
On 22 Jul 2004 12:06:59 GMT,
(TonyZ2001) wrote:

Just one look at the posts in this thread shows the utter hatred toward America
by the people of this group.

Perhaps there is a lesson in there for you.

And take notice that all of those that agree with Saddam remain slilent while
these bastards insult our soldiers.

Let's consider that bolony, shall we? If someone agrees with Saddam,
I'm sure they'll be right there dissing the troops with probably much
more vigour than the writers in this thread. You're just making
another feeble attempt at garnering support by guilt tactics. Perhaps
you should enter the debate, rather than hoping for success by passing
dimwitted comments, imbecile.
Personally, I've been overlooking this thread. I only started reading
it because I was bored.
.



User: "Marvin The Paranoid Android"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 22 Jul 2004 12:53:01 PM
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:31:28 -0400, Jane overjoyed me with this news:

"ZenIsWhen" <ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:10ft1murtq9ujb2@corp.supernews.com...


"AK" <someoneNasty@hotmails.com> wrote in message
news:2sfsf0hqkb8mem0vp9to09s7ikuq9s6sl0@4ax.com...

In the face of stubborn insurgency, troops scale back Anbar patrols

By Tom Lasseter

Knight Ridder Newspapers

RAMADI, Iraq - After more than a year of fighting, U.S. troops have
stopped patrolling large swaths of Iraq's restive Anbar province,
according to the top American military intelligence officer in the area.

Most U.S. Army officers interviewed this week said the patrols in and
around the province's capital, Ramadi - home to many Iraqi military and
intelligence officers under Saddam Hussein - have stopped largely

because

the soldiers and commanders there were tired of being shot at by
insurgents who've refused to back down under heavy American military
pressure.

Asked for comment, officials from the 2nd Battalion 4th Marines in

Ramadi

- which makes up about one-fifth of the forces there - provided a
21-year-old corporal, who confirmed that the Marines have discontinued
patrols, but said it was because of the hand-over of sovereignty to the
interim Iraqi government.

While American officials in Ramadi wouldn't provide exact figures for

the

change in numbers of patrols, there's obviously been a significant drop.

After losing dozens of men to a "voiceless, faceless mass of people"

with

no clear leadership or political aim other than killing American

soldiers,

the U.S. military has had to re-evaluate the situation, said Army Maj.
Thomas Neemeyer, the head American intelligence officer for the 1st
Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division, the main military force in the
Ramadi area and from there to Fallujah.

"They cannot militarily overwhelm us, but we cannot deliver a knockout
blow, either," he said. "It creates a form of stalemate."


Now if THAT doesn't sound like Vietnam - I don't know what does!!!!!

Vietnam was lost because of politics.

Jane

The reason politics even came into it was because there were uncertainties
as to whether or not it was legitimate. It was never clear if the U.S. or
anyone needed to be involved in what was happening in VietNam.
Whether it was legit is still a matter of opinion. There wasn't widespread
support at the time.
.
User: "Jane"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 24 Jul 2004 02:37:12 PM
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marv@HeartOfGold.com> wrote in message
news:cdouuk01gg3@news4.newsguy.com...

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:31:28 -0400, Jane overjoyed me with this news:

<snip>

Now if THAT doesn't sound like Vietnam - I don't know what does!!!!!

Vietnam was lost because of politics.

Jane


The reason politics even came into it was because there were uncertainties
as to whether or not it was legitimate. It was never clear if the U.S. or
anyone needed to be involved in what was happening in VietNam.

I know the history. I was young in the 60s and 70s, but have since read a
fair bit. I guess I am old-fashioned and m ore inclined to agree with the
"my country, love it or leave it" crowd. Most of the protestors were just
kids who didn't have a clue about the real world yet...because they were the
baby-boom generation, they were the largest demographic and of course, had
the most influence.
My country goes to war, I am going to support it 110%...if not, I should go
live somewhere else.
Jane


Whether it was legit is still a matter of opinion. There wasn't widespread
support at the time.

.
User: "Grantland"

Title: Re: United ***** Running Away 25 Jul 2004 12:46:23 AM
"


My country goes to war, I am going to support it 110%...if not, I should go
live somewhere else.

No-one would take you. You too fucking STUPID, stupid.
.






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