http://www.smbtech.com/lawsuit.html
Usenet Kooks, Lawsuits, and You
Perhaps some net.kook has been threatening you with a lawsuit. Fear not,
below is a quick guide for handling the wacko:
Note: I'm not a lawyer. Not even close. What follows is based on my own
experiences at an ISP, and from being in/around Usenet since 1991. If
you really are being sued, or if you have committed a crime, then you
need to go find a lawyer. I'm also working under the assumption that you
haven't done anything wrong to get sued over. If you have, or even think
you might have, then you need to find a qualified attorney. Also, this
is page is very U.S.-centric. I know even less about the legal systems
of other countries.
Introduction:
Most threats of legal action are just that -- threats. Seems every
nutcase who can peck out a Usenet post has adopted the phony lawsuit
tactic. Many net.kooks use it as a way of silencing their critics or
perceived enemies, or when they are on the losing end of a debate. There
needs to be a corollary to Godwin's Law such that a thread is considered
ended when one poster brings up suing another.
Everybody hears about the cases where some jury awards the plaintiff a
zillion dollars. Nobody ever hears about all the cases that get booted
out of court or are never filed to begin with. To the uninformed, a
lawsuit threat may seem like a big deal. In reality, for all the threats
made, only a very tiny percentage actually turn into suits. Only a small
percentage of those ever end up with a significant judgement.
The Money Problem:
People toss around lawsuit threats all them time. Very few of the
tossers have ever had the distinct pleasure of paying an attorney a
couple of hundred dollars an hour. That's $200-300 per hour of office
time. Actual courtroom rate is double or triple that. It's also common
to be charged separately for the typist's time, postage, courier costs,
filing fees, and other miscellaneous expenses. Defamation or libel suits
don't work like accident, product liability, or class action suits where
the attorney will work on a contingency. The lawyer is going to want
some serious money up front before he/she/it starts work on the case.
That is, assuming that there is a case there to begin with. Your kook
probably does not have a case, and all but the most unethical of lawyers
will tell him that.
If the would-be plaintiff is not laughed out of his attorney's office,
then the would-be plaintiff will soon rapidly exit under his own power
once the lawyer explains his rates. The up-front expense alone is enough
to weed out the bulk of the silly threats. Keep this in mind the next
time some net.loon waves the lawsuit stick. Also, keep in mind that many
kooks have no financial resources or a even a job.
Calling The Bluff:
One way of dealing with the threat is to ignore it. Many kooks are
trolls, and responding to their post just feeds into their bizarre
needs. Some just like to "hear" the sound of their own "voice" or to see
their every world immortalized. A quick DejaNews search using the kook's
name and the keywords "suit, lawsuit, sue" etc. will tell you how often
he or she has played this game before. Don't be surprised to find out
that there's many instances of the kook threatening to sue, but no cases
of the kook really doing it.
Let's just say that you choose to respond to the threat. Perhaps you're
in a flamewar, or you want to clear your name, or you just want to poke
a stick at 'em and watch 'em squirm. A simple follow-up post telling the
kook that you are ready and willing to meet them in court will usually
end the thread right there. Even though the kook may ask for it, DO NOT
post your address, phone number or other personal information. DO NOT
send it via email, either. Chances are, the nutcase won't use it for
what he claims, but rather, will find some other way to misuse it or
harass you. You are under no obligation to provide your address to
anyone but an officer of the court. If there's the minuscule chance that
the nutcase really does have an attorney, then his attorney will be
doing the legwork of finding your address of record, not the kook.
Dead Trees:
It's also possible that a persistent kook can find your address from
another source, perhaps on the net somewhere. If you receive some
"legal" notice from somebody claiming to represent the kook, make sure
it's coming from a real attorney. The state bar association should be
able to help here. If you hear from somebody who calls themselves an
attorney, but in fact they are not, you might want to report that fact
to your local bar association. Any idiot with a word processor can
created legal-looking documents and claim that he is representing the
kook, so don't get upset if you get some dead tree fillets in the mail.
Odds are good that it's the kook himself. If this is the case, and you
are sure that the kook is not an attorney, then my advice is to not
respond to the letter. If you get a letter from the kook that contains
physical threats or other harassment, it's time to get the police or
postal inspector involved. Of course, if it's something really wacky,
but harmless, you might consider scanning the letter and posting it on a
web page for all to see. The same applies to telephone calls you might
get. More than one unwanted phone call from the kook (or his shills) is
harassment and you should report it to your telephone company and to the
police. Of course, you also don't want to give out your address that
way, either. Legitimate attorneys for the plaintiff do not speak with
defendants via the telephone; it's always done via written communication
or through the defendant's attorney.
If you find that it's a real attorney sending you things in the mail,
then it's time for you to go find yourself an attorney. That's not as
bad as it sounds. In many, if not most cases, your attorney will spend a
half-hour writing a letter to the kook's attorney. Usually, it will
contain something like: "my client will blah..blah..blah, if your client
agrees to dah...dah..dah." Decent lawyers will attempt to settle
disputes outside of court, wherever possible. In some locations, civil
cases are required to go to arbitration prior to going to court.
Further, judges frown on attorneys who file nuisance or crank cases.
Your ISP:
A very common kook tactic is to report you to your ISP for "abuse", or
to threaten the ISP with legal action. In the case of spurious abuse
complaints, all you have to do is be sure not to break your ISP's TOS or
AUP. You have read your ISP's TOS or AUP, right ? The kook has read your
ISP's TOS/AUP and is just waiting to scream bloody murder to your ISP's
abuse department the minute you appear to get out of line. There's an
easy way around this. Just don't break your ISP's TOS/AUP. That's good
advice even if you don't have a nutcase after you.
As part of his campaign against you, the loon may try to play legal
games with your ISP. Most larger ISPs are very wise to these tricks.
Under no circumstances will they release information about you without a
subpoena or court order. Also, most larger ISPs have a legal department
that deals with nutcases on a daily basis. They will pretty much tell
the kook that he will need to have his attorney contact the ISP's
attorney in writing. Of course, the kook's game is likely over at that
point because he won't have an attorney.
Kooks messing with smaller ISPs can be more of a problem. Shoestring
outfits may not have a legal staff, or may not be able to afford to
retain outside counsel to deal with these issues. Your ISP may decide
that's it's better to just dump your account than to run the risk of
incurring any legal expenses. If this may be the case, feel free to pass
this URL along to your ISP. It will also help you to point out the
kook's prior threats, and to provide a sample of the kook's loonish
posts. You may still end up having to move to a larger, more experienced
ISP.
Bits an' Pieces:
You run a great risk of being targeted by a kook if you post from your
employer's computer or from a system at your school. It's trivial for
the kook to find the address and send a bogus complaint to the network
administrator. The less clued-in admin may become very upset when he
gets an email or phone call threatening a "lawsuit" for something you
might have done. Even if your admin is wise to such kook stunts,
questions will still be asked about your use of the computer on company
time.
Kooks love to claim that you will be reported to a whole alphabet soup
of government agencies. FBI, DOJ, IRS, PUC -- the list goes on and on.
Those agencies do not get involved in civil disputes. Your kook is just
trying to intimidate you. If you have not committed a crime, you have
nothing to worry about from any government agency.
If you have a web page, expect that the nutcase will try to find
something there to use against you. The safe way is not put information
about yourself, your employer, or your family on your web page. If you
have any logos, pictures, music, or other intellectual property on your
page, make sure that you have permission to use those items, or else the
kook may try reporting you to the Disney cops for that one little
picture of Goofy.
You should always keeps copies of everything that you post. Also, you
should keep a local copy of the kook's postings as well. Hard disks
crash all the time, so either back up onto tape or print them out. Also,
do not count on Dejanews retaining your or the kook's postings.
I hope that I have shown how foolish it looks when a somebody cries,
"lawsuit". Don't start playing the same game as the loon. If you have
truly been wronged, seek legal advise. Your attorney may advise that you
keep your mouth shut and to stop posting on Usenet. Follow that advise.
Comments
.
|
|
| User: "Aidan" |
|
| Title: Re: Usenet Kooks, Lawsuits and You .. |
24 Feb 2005 04:27:07 PM |
|
|
Working at an ISP, we deal with crazy kooks chasing our customers all the
time... Our standard reply goes like this:
kook: "I've been threatened/libeled/slanderd by one of your customers!
What are you going to do about it?"
me: "we cannot take any action without the intervention of proper
authorities. Refer it to the police, and we will work with them regarding
these matters"
kook: "....OK, the police... ahh, any chance of some intermediate action
against the customer?"
me: "No. But I do recommend you stay away from the site/group/place where
you have been aledgedly threatened/libeled/slanderd."
Suffice to say, we've never acctually heard from the police regarding any of
these matters.
"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@heartofgold.com> wrote in message
news:1109246073.cdb4aeaaacb19221bfab868b83ff5456@teranews...
http://www.smbtech.com/lawsuit.html
Usenet Kooks, Lawsuits, and You
Perhaps some net.kook has been threatening you with a lawsuit. Fear not,
below is a quick guide for handling the wacko:
Note: I'm not a lawyer. Not even close. What follows is based on my own
experiences at an ISP, and from being in/around Usenet since 1991. If you
really are being sued, or if you have committed a crime, then you need to
go find a lawyer. I'm also working under the assumption that you haven't
done anything wrong to get sued over. If you have, or even think you might
have, then you need to find a qualified attorney. Also, this is page is
very U.S.-centric. I know even less about the legal systems of other
countries.
Introduction:
Most threats of legal action are just that -- threats. Seems every nutcase
who can peck out a Usenet post has adopted the phony lawsuit tactic. Many
net.kooks use it as a way of silencing their critics or perceived enemies,
or when they are on the losing end of a debate. There needs to be a
corollary to Godwin's Law such that a thread is considered ended when one
poster brings up suing another.
Everybody hears about the cases where some jury awards the plaintiff a
zillion dollars. Nobody ever hears about all the cases that get booted out
of court or are never filed to begin with. To the uninformed, a lawsuit
threat may seem like a big deal. In reality, for all the threats made,
only a very tiny percentage actually turn into suits. Only a small
percentage of those ever end up with a significant judgement.
The Money Problem:
People toss around lawsuit threats all them time. Very few of the tossers
have ever had the distinct pleasure of paying an attorney a couple of
hundred dollars an hour. That's $200-300 per hour of office time. Actual
courtroom rate is double or triple that. It's also common to be charged
separately for the typist's time, postage, courier costs, filing fees, and
other miscellaneous expenses. Defamation or libel suits don't work like
accident, product liability, or class action suits where the attorney will
work on a contingency. The lawyer is going to want some serious money up
front before he/she/it starts work on the case. That is, assuming that
there is a case there to begin with. Your kook probably does not have a
case, and all but the most unethical of lawyers will tell him that.
If the would-be plaintiff is not laughed out of his attorney's office,
then the would-be plaintiff will soon rapidly exit under his own power
once the lawyer explains his rates. The up-front expense alone is enough
to weed out the bulk of the silly threats. Keep this in mind the next time
some net.loon waves the lawsuit stick. Also, keep in mind that many kooks
have no financial resources or a even a job.
Calling The Bluff:
One way of dealing with the threat is to ignore it. Many kooks are trolls,
and responding to their post just feeds into their bizarre needs. Some
just like to "hear" the sound of their own "voice" or to see their every
world immortalized. A quick DejaNews search using the kook's name and the
keywords "suit, lawsuit, sue" etc. will tell you how often he or she has
played this game before. Don't be surprised to find out that there's many
instances of the kook threatening to sue, but no cases of the kook really
doing it.
Let's just say that you choose to respond to the threat. Perhaps you're in
a flamewar, or you want to clear your name, or you just want to poke a
stick at 'em and watch 'em squirm. A simple follow-up post telling the
kook that you are ready and willing to meet them in court will usually end
the thread right there. Even though the kook may ask for it, DO NOT post
your address, phone number or other personal information. DO NOT send it
via email, either. Chances are, the nutcase won't use it for what he
claims, but rather, will find some other way to misuse it or harass you.
You are under no obligation to provide your address to anyone but an
officer of the court. If there's the minuscule chance that the nutcase
really does have an attorney, then his attorney will be doing the legwork
of finding your address of record, not the kook.
Dead Trees:
It's also possible that a persistent kook can find your address from
another source, perhaps on the net somewhere. If you receive some "legal"
notice from somebody claiming to represent the kook, make sure it's coming
from a real attorney. The state bar association should be able to help
here. If you hear from somebody who calls themselves an attorney, but in
fact they are not, you might want to report that fact to your local bar
association. Any idiot with a word processor can created legal-looking
documents and claim that he is representing the kook, so don't get upset
if you get some dead tree fillets in the mail. Odds are good that it's the
kook himself. If this is the case, and you are sure that the kook is not
an attorney, then my advice is to not respond to the letter. If you get a
letter from the kook that contains physical threats or other harassment,
it's time to get the police or postal inspector involved. Of course, if
it's something really wacky, but harmless, you might consider scanning the
letter and posting it on a web page for all to see. The same applies to
telephone calls you might get. More than one unwanted phone call from the
kook (or his shills) is harassment and you should report it to your
telephone company and to the police. Of course, you also don't want to
give out your address that way, either. Legitimate attorneys for the
plaintiff do not speak with defendants via the telephone; it's always done
via written communication or through the defendant's attorney.
If you find that it's a real attorney sending you things in the mail, then
it's time for you to go find yourself an attorney. That's not as bad as it
sounds. In many, if not most cases, your attorney will spend a half-hour
writing a letter to the kook's attorney. Usually, it will contain
something like: "my client will blah..blah..blah, if your client agrees to
dah...dah..dah." Decent lawyers will attempt to settle disputes outside of
court, wherever possible. In some locations, civil cases are required to
go to arbitration prior to going to court. Further, judges frown on
attorneys who file nuisance or crank cases.
Your ISP:
A very common kook tactic is to report you to your ISP for "abuse", or to
threaten the ISP with legal action. In the case of spurious abuse
complaints, all you have to do is be sure not to break your ISP's TOS or
AUP. You have read your ISP's TOS or AUP, right ? The kook has read your
ISP's TOS/AUP and is just waiting to scream bloody murder to your ISP's
abuse department the minute you appear to get out of line. There's an easy
way around this. Just don't break your ISP's TOS/AUP. That's good advice
even if you don't have a nutcase after you.
As part of his campaign against you, the loon may try to play legal games
with your ISP. Most larger ISPs are very wise to these tricks. Under no
circumstances will they release information about you without a subpoena
or court order. Also, most larger ISPs have a legal department that deals
with nutcases on a daily basis. They will pretty much tell the kook that
he will need to have his attorney contact the ISP's attorney in writing.
Of course, the kook's game is likely over at that point because he won't
have an attorney.
Kooks messing with smaller ISPs can be more of a problem. Shoestring
outfits may not have a legal staff, or may not be able to afford to retain
outside counsel to deal with these issues. Your ISP may decide that's it's
better to just dump your account than to run the risk of incurring any
legal expenses. If this may be the case, feel free to pass this URL along
to your ISP. It will also help you to point out the kook's prior threats,
and to provide a sample of the kook's loonish posts. You may still end up
having to move to a larger, more experienced ISP.
Bits an' Pieces:
You run a great risk of being targeted by a kook if you post from your
employer's computer or from a system at your school. It's trivial for the
kook to find the address and send a bogus complaint to the network
administrator. The less clued-in admin may become very upset when he gets
an email or phone call threatening a "lawsuit" for something you might
have done. Even if your admin is wise to such kook stunts, questions will
still be asked about your use of the computer on company time.
Kooks love to claim that you will be reported to a whole alphabet soup of
government agencies. FBI, DOJ, IRS, PUC -- the list goes on and on. Those
agencies do not get involved in civil disputes. Your kook is just trying
to intimidate you. If you have not committed a crime, you have nothing to
worry about from any government agency.
If you have a web page, expect that the nutcase will try to find something
there to use against you. The safe way is not put information about
yourself, your employer, or your family on your web page. If you have any
logos, pictures, music, or other intellectual property on your page, make
sure that you have permission to use those items, or else the kook may try
reporting you to the Disney cops for that one little picture of Goofy.
You should always keeps copies of everything that you post. Also, you
should keep a local copy of the kook's postings as well. Hard disks crash
all the time, so either back up onto tape or print them out. Also, do not
count on Dejanews retaining your or the kook's postings.
I hope that I have shown how foolish it looks when a somebody cries,
"lawsuit". Don't start playing the same game as the loon. If you have
truly been wronged, seek legal advise. Your attorney may advise that you
keep your mouth shut and to stop posting on Usenet. Follow that advise.
Comments
.
|
|
|
|

|
Related Articles |
|
|