Showdown at border ?
Violent, terror-connected gang threatens
to confront civilian immigration patrols
Posted: March 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
2005 WorldNetDaily.com
It looks like there is going to be a second "showdown at the OK
Corral" in Tombstone, Ariz., April 1.
A leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara
Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders
from federal prison to members of his international criminal
organization to teach a lesson to a group of Americans taking border
control into their own hands.
The American civilians, known as the "Minutemen," say they have some
750 volunteers ready to show up in Tombstone to start policing the
border and dealing with illegal immigration.
The Mara Salvatruchas, founded in Los Angeles, has become one of the
most violent and widespread gangs throughout South America, the U.S.
and even Canada. Many of its members and leaders have been deported
from the U.S., but the group is said to be deeply involved in
cross-border arms-running and drug-smuggling operations, according to
U.S. law enforcement sources.
Lately, the gang has joined forces with former members of the
Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front, a radical terrorist group,
and some U.S. intelligence sources say they may also be cooperating
with Islamic terrorist groups – including al-Qaida.
Meanwhile, the Minutemen hope to form a group of civilians from all
walks of life to patrol the border day and night – even with the
threat of such violence. Their goal is stop the flow of illegal
immigration through the Arizona-Mexico border, the biggest entry point
into the U.S.
Jim Gilchrist of Orange County, Calif., is leading the project.
"I struck the mother load of nationalism," he told a local TV station.
"I thought I would be lucky to get 12 volunteers. In six months, I've
gotten almost 500."
The target is a 230-mile stretch of desert along the Arizona-Mexico
border. Some people call the area "America's Open Door." Along this
section of the border, more than 43 percent of all illegal entries to
the U.S. take place.
Last year, the Tucson Border Patrol apprehended 491,000. But for every
person caught, immigration sources say, at least five walk in
undetected.
"We're going to set up at least 40 maybe 80 outposts, four to six
people per outpost 24/7, looking for people who are infiltrating over
that border," said Gilchrist.
To do this, Gilchrist is amassing people from all walks of life to
spend a month camped out on the border.
But some say taking the work of border patrol into their own hands
could be deadly. While Gilchrist stresses non-violence, he doesn't
rule out the possibility that many of his volunteers will be armed.
"Ten percent of our members are retired law enforcement officers who
have a right to carry a concealed weapon. They probably will carry and
you won't know it," he said.
But Andy Adame with the U.S. Border Patrol in Tucson warned "people
are going to get hurt." Adame said many of these volunteers don't know
what they're in for.
"When you have untrained civilians, that are armed, that are out in
the middle of the desert, in the middle of the night, in the dark, and
they meet up with one of these smuggling organizations ... you're
going to have a gun fight," said Adame.
Border patrol agents have seen a growing problem with violence in
recent years. Agents have been attacked by frustrated smugglers with
rocks, bricks, even automatic weapons.
According to authorities, violence along the Tucson sector has climbed
to an all-time high.
"Bringing untrained civilians into this border environment is a recipe
for disaster," said Adame.
But that has not deterred many of the volunteers.
The Minutemen even have an air force. They plan to use about two dozen
aircraft to patrol the skies near the border.
Rivera-Paz was arrested three weeks ago and is accused of murdering
more than two dozen people in Honduras. He was wanted in connection
with the December bus massacre of 28 people, including six children,
in San Pedro Sula, Honduras.
The Mara Salvatruchas identify themselves with tattoos, such as "MS"
or the numbers 13 and 18, signifying their relationship to the gang.
The gang formed in the United States in the 1980s in a Los Angeles
prison. The 13 and 18 signify the city streets in L.A. where they hung
out.
U.S. officials are concerned the gang members might help sneak
al-Qaida terrorists into America.
Rivera-Paz was charged with illegally entering the United States after
being deported, but is expected to be extradited to Honduras to face
charges in connection with the bus massacre.
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| User: "Perseid" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
07 Mar 2005 10:59:28 PM |
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Spat the Words
Showdown at border ?
Violent, terror-connected gang threatens
to confront civilian immigration patrols
Posted: March 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
2005 WorldNetDaily.com
It looks like there is going to be a second "showdown at the OK
Corral" in Tombstone, Ariz., April 1.
A leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara
Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders
from federal prison to members of his international criminal
Yes, I've heard of this group... Jose-Cuervo Al-Qaeda De La MeHico.
organization to teach a lesson to a group of Americans taking border
control into their own hands.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
07 Mar 2005 09:50:35 PM |
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wrote:
Showdown at border ?
Violent, terror-connected gang threatens
to confront civilian immigration patrols
Posted: March 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
2005 WorldNetDaily.com
It looks like there is going to be a second "showdown at the OK
Corral" in Tombstone, Ariz., April 1.
A leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara
Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders
from federal prison to members of his international criminal
organization to teach a lesson to a group of Americans taking border
control into their own hands.
How unfortunate that Bush has sent our National Guard and army to look
after people in other countries, and has ignored his own. Oh well,
anyone who doesn't like it can move out, I guess.
Woods
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
08 Mar 2005 06:29:02 AM |
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itwill@happen.com wrote:
Showdown at border ?
Violent, terror-connected gang threatens
to confront civilian immigration patrols
Posted: March 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
2005 WorldNetDaily.com
It looks like there is going to be a second "showdown at the OK
Corral" in Tombstone, Ariz., April 1.
A leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara
Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders
from federal prison to members of his international criminal
organization to teach a lesson to a group of Americans taking border
control into their own hands.
How unfortunate that Bush has sent our National Guard and army to look
after people in other countries, and has ignored his own.
Yeah, we should have just left the Iraqi people to suffer under Saddam
for another 30 years, right Sandy?
Oh well, anyone who doesn't like it can move out, I guess.
Woods
Yep, you don't like it, so get a goin'.
Tony
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
08 Mar 2005 07:25:19 PM |
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wrote:
wrote:
Showdown at border ?
Violent, terror-connected gang threatens
to confront civilian immigration patrols
Posted: March 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
2005 WorldNetDaily.com
It looks like there is going to be a second "showdown at the OK
Corral" in Tombstone, Ariz., April 1.
A leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara
Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders
from federal prison to members of his international criminal
organization to teach a lesson to a group of Americans taking border
control into their own hands.
How unfortunate that Bush has sent our National Guard and army to look
after people in other countries, and has ignored his own.
Yeah, we should have just left the Iraqi people to suffer under Saddam
for another 30 years, right Sandy?
Well, if you think it's more important to force democracy down Iraq's
throat, then you've nothing to complain about.
Oh well, anyone who doesn't like it can move out, I guess.
Woods
Yep, you don't like it, so get a goin'.
You seem to be suffering from a memory lapse - that's YOUR complaining
about illegal immigrants overrunning our unprotected borders.
Woods
Tony
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
09 Mar 2005 10:46:01 AM |
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itwill@happen.com wrote:
itwill@happen.com wrote:
Showdown at border ?
Violent, terror-connected gang threatens
to confront civilian immigration patrols
Posted: March 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
2005 WorldNetDaily.com
It looks like there is going to be a second "showdown at the OK
Corral" in Tombstone, Ariz., April 1.
A leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara
Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders
from federal prison to members of his international criminal
organization to teach a lesson to a group of Americans taking border
control into their own hands.
How unfortunate that Bush has sent our National Guard and army to look
after people in other countries, and has ignored his own.
Yeah, we should have just left the Iraqi people to suffer under Saddam
for another 30 years, right Sandy?
Well, if you think it's more important to force democracy down Iraq's
throat, then you've nothing to complain about.
LOL!!!
Forcing it down their throats are we?
Did we make them go out in vote when their lives were in danger? Nope.
What we did was free them from Saddam and give them the opportunity to
set up their own Democracy, but somehow you see this as us "forcing it
down their throats."
Weird.
Oh well, anyone who doesn't like it can move out, I guess.
Woods
Yep, you don't like it, so get a goin'.
You seem to be suffering from a memory lapse - that's YOUR complaining
about illegal immigrants overrunning our unprotected borders.
Woods
Oh, so you like to see your country invaded by 10's of millions of
illegal aliens with no end in site?
tony
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
09 Mar 2005 05:58:37 PM |
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wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
Showdown at border ?
Violent, terror-connected gang threatens
to confront civilian immigration patrols
Posted: March 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
2005 WorldNetDaily.com
It looks like there is going to be a second "showdown at the OK
Corral" in Tombstone, Ariz., April 1.
A leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara
Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders
from federal prison to members of his international criminal
organization to teach a lesson to a group of Americans taking border
control into their own hands.
How unfortunate that Bush has sent our National Guard and army to look
after people in other countries, and has ignored his own.
Yeah, we should have just left the Iraqi people to suffer under Saddam
for another 30 years, right Sandy?
Well, if you think it's more important to force democracy down Iraq's
throat, then you've nothing to complain about.
LOL!!!
Forcing it down their throats are we?
Did they form their own democracy? Let's think about it a minute .....
nope.
Did they invite anyone in to assist them in forming a democracy? Let's
think about that one ...... nope.
Did they in any way/shape/form indicate that they wanted equal rights
for everyone? Let's consider that ..... nope.
So, it would appear that this was something *we* wanted, that *we*
forced on them. The only ways it could not have been forced on them is
if they did it themselves, or did it themselves with some assistance.
Did we make them go out in vote when their lives were in danger? Nope.
After the fact, Tony.
What we did was free them from Saddam and give them the opportunity to
set up their own Democracy, but somehow you see this as us "forcing it
down their throats."
After the fact, Tony. That's merely a fortunate side effect, from our
perspective. Do you really think the sunnis, shiites and kurds are
going to accept anyone in leadership positions but themselves? Look to
have upheaval for decades.
Weird.
Oh well, anyone who doesn't like it can move out, I guess.
Woods
Yep, you don't like it, so get a goin'.
You seem to be suffering from a memory lapse - that's YOUR complaining
about illegal immigrants overrunning our unprotected borders.
Woods
Oh, so you like to see your country invaded by 10's of millions of
illegal aliens with no end in site?
Nope. But the difference is, that I've been all the USA the whole time,
and opposed to sending our troops where they are neither needed nor
wanted. I've been very consistent where you have not been - you want
your cake and eat it too, and it just ain't gonna work that way.
Woods
tony
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
10 Mar 2005 06:48:30 AM |
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itwill@happen.com wrote:
itwill@happen.com wrote:
itwill@happen.com wrote:
Showdown at border ?
Violent, terror-connected gang threatens
to confront civilian immigration patrols
Posted: March 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
2005 WorldNetDaily.com
It looks like there is going to be a second "showdown at the OK
Corral" in Tombstone, Ariz., April 1.
A leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara
Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders
from federal prison to members of his international criminal
organization to teach a lesson to a group of Americans taking border
control into their own hands.
How unfortunate that Bush has sent our National Guard and army to look
after people in other countries, and has ignored his own.
Yeah, we should have just left the Iraqi people to suffer under Saddam
for another 30 years, right Sandy?
Well, if you think it's more important to force democracy down Iraq's
throat, then you've nothing to complain about.
LOL!!!
Forcing it down their throats are we?
Did they form their own democracy? Let's think about it a minute .....
nope.
After we deposed of Saddam that's exactly what they did.
Did they invite anyone in to assist them in forming a democracy? Let's
think about that one ...... nope.
They couldn't invite anyone in while Saddam was standing on their
necks?
Are you really so dense?
Did they in any way/shape/form indicate that they wanted equal rights
for everyone? Let's consider that ..... nope.
Oh right, they wanted to live under a murderous dictator, right?
Sheesh.
So, it would appear that this was something *we* wanted, that *we*
forced on them. The only ways it could not have been forced on them is
if they did it themselves, or did it themselves with some assistance.
You surely are noit thinking clearly.
Did we make them go out in vote when their lives were in danger? Nope.
After the fact, Tony.
After what fact? After we ousted Saddam?
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals don't
understand this is just incredible.
Or maybe you do understand this and just loathe the military so much
that you would rather 25 million people be left under the foot of a
muderous tyrant than to see our military liberate them.
What we did was free them from Saddam and give them the opportunity to
set up their own Democracy, but somehow you see this as us "forcing it
down their throats."
After the fact, Tony. That's merely a fortunate side effect, from our
perspective. Do you really think the sunnis, shiites and kurds are
going to accept anyone in leadership positions but themselves? Look to
have upheaval for decades.
No, that's what you and all the other Liberals are hoping for.
What you are in effect saying is that Iraq can only be ruled by a
tyrant.
Weird.
Oh well, anyone who doesn't like it can move out, I guess.
Woods
Yep, you don't like it, so get a goin'.
You seem to be suffering from a memory lapse - that's YOUR complaining
about illegal immigrants overrunning our unprotected borders.
Woods
Oh, so you like to see your country invaded by 10's of millions of
illegal aliens with no end in site?
Nope. But the difference is, that I've been all the USA the whole time,
and opposed to sending our troops where they are neither needed nor
wanted. I've been very consistent where you have not been - you want
your cake and eat it too, and it just ain't gonna work that way.
Woods
Sorry Sandy, but you simply don't know what you;re talking about.
Your contention that the troops in Iraq are all the military forces
that we have is totaly ludicrious, that somehow if we didn't have
troops in Iraq we could put them on our southen border.
The truth is that we could do that tomorrow if the politicians woke
the hell up.
Secondly, the Iraq people by about 70% in recent polls say that they
want our troops to stay there until their own military is strong
enough to deal with the Terrorists.
And please don't say that they didn't feel that way before the war,
because to do so would be a total lie since these people had no voice
before the war.
Tony
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| User: "Perseid" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
10 Mar 2005 06:23:01 PM |
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Spat the Words
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals don't
understand this is just incredible.
Oh they're experiencing democracy... like the 40 dead Iraqis
found near the Syrian border, and the car bomb that blew up
150 Iraqis (body parts flying all over the place). Democracy
is sprouting up all over Iraq.
Tony
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
11 Mar 2005 06:59:46 AM |
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Perseid wrote:
itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals don't
understand this is just incredible.
Oh they're experiencing democracy... like the 40 dead Iraqis
found near the Syrian border, and the car bomb that blew up
150 Iraqis (body parts flying all over the place). Democracy
is sprouting up all over Iraq.
Hey Nitwit,
Those 40 dead Iraqi's were killed by the Terrorists, as were the 150
blown up by the car bomb!
That you do not know that it is these very same people who were ruling
over Iraq while Saddam was in power is just one more piece of evidence
as to how clueless you are.
Tony
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| User: "Perseid" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
11 Mar 2005 08:17:58 AM |
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Spat the Words
Perseid wrote:
Spat the Words
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals don't
understand this is just incredible.
Oh they're experiencing democracy... like the 40 dead Iraqis
found near the Syrian border, and the car bomb that blew up
150 Iraqis (body parts flying all over the place). Democracy
is sprouting up all over Iraq.
Hey Nitwit,
Those 40 dead Iraqi's were killed by the Terrorists, as were the 150
blown up by the car bomb!
Terrorists or Freedom Fighters. How clueless are you ?
George Washington was considered a terrorist by the British.
The British couldn't understand the difference between a terrorist
and a freedom fighter so they lost their colony. Lessons from history
(Bush was awol the day they taught this lesson).
That you do not know that it is these very same people who were ruling
over Iraq while Saddam was in power is just one more piece of evidence
as to how clueless you are.
Tony
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
12 Mar 2005 09:55:45 AM |
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itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
Perseid wrote:
itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals don't
understand this is just incredible.
Oh they're experiencing democracy... like the 40 dead Iraqis
found near the Syrian border, and the car bomb that blew up
150 Iraqis (body parts flying all over the place). Democracy
is sprouting up all over Iraq.
Hey Nitwit,
Those 40 dead Iraqi's were killed by the Terrorists, as were the 150
blown up by the car bomb!
Terrorists or Freedom Fighters.
You fucking Clown, how can you call Saddam thugs "freedom fighters"?
These are the same people who repressed and tortured innocent Iraqi's
under Saddam rule.
George Washington was considered a terrorist by the British.
That a person of youe intellect can actuallt turn on a computer amazes
me, George Washington was fighting for Freedom and deomcracy, these
Saddam thugs are fighting to reinstall a dictatorship.
For you to even try to make such a comparision shows how stupid you
are.
What don't you understand about that, Clown?
Tony
That you do not know that it is these very same people who were ruling
over Iraq while Saddam was in power is just one more piece of evidence
as to how clueless you are.
Tony
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| User: "Perseid" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
13 Mar 2005 04:02:35 AM |
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Spat the Words
Spat the Words
Perseid wrote:
Spat the Words
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals don't
understand this is just incredible.
Oh they're experiencing democracy... like the 40 dead Iraqis
found near the Syrian border, and the car bomb that blew up
150 Iraqis (body parts flying all over the place). Democracy
is sprouting up all over Iraq.
Hey Nitwit,
Those 40 dead Iraqi's were killed by the Terrorists, as were the 150
blown up by the car bomb!
Terrorists or Freedom Fighters.
You fucking Clown, how can you call Saddam thugs "freedom fighters"?
We caught all saddam's thugs. The ones remaining are average
sunnis, and we just invaded their country and toppled their
leader. They don't care how you feel about the former regime...
they just want to kill Americans.
These are the same people who repressed and tortured innocent Iraqi's
under Saddam rule.
Nah, those people all got killed. The only ones left fighting are
people who used to be peaceful, but now GWB has turned them into
angry radical muslims.
George Washington was considered a terrorist by the British.
That a person of youe intellect can actuallt turn on a computer amazes
me, George Washington was fighting for Freedom and deomcracy, these
Saddam thugs are fighting to reinstall a dictatorship.
George Washington was a military leader not an idealogue. He
fought because that was his profession... and he killed any
who were seditious or treasonous against the rebel cause, by
hanging and firing squad. You are such a fucking idiot.
For you to even try to make such a comparision shows how stupid you
are.
Let's hear your half-***** response. You show no real grasp of
the issues.
What don't you understand about that, Clown?
Tony
That you do not know that it is these very same people who were ruling
over Iraq while Saddam was in power is just one more piece of evidence
as to how clueless you are.
Tony
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
13 Mar 2005 10:29:15 AM |
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itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
Perseid wrote:
itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals don't
understand this is just incredible.
Oh they're experiencing democracy... like the 40 dead Iraqis
found near the Syrian border, and the car bomb that blew up
150 Iraqis (body parts flying all over the place). Democracy
is sprouting up all over Iraq.
Hey Nitwit,
Those 40 dead Iraqi's were killed by the Terrorists, as were the 150
blown up by the car bomb!
Terrorists or Freedom Fighters.
You fucking Clown, how can you call Saddam thugs "freedom fighters"?
We caught all saddam's thugs. The ones remaining are average
sunnis,
Could you be anymore Clueless?
There were hundreds of thousands of Republican Guards, another 50,000
special guards, and 25,000 if the Feyadeeen.
Why don' you go back to sleep and leave this discussion to people who
have at least a small clue?
These are the same people who repressed and tortured innocent Iraqi's
under Saddam rule.
Nah, those people all got killed. The only ones left fighting are
people who used to be peaceful, but now GWB has turned them into
angry radical muslims.
You're a fucking Idiot!!!
George Washington was considered a terrorist by the British.
That a person of youe intellect can actuallt turn on a computer amazes
me, George Washington was fighting for Freedom and deomcracy, these
Saddam thugs are fighting to reinstall a dictatorship.
George Washington was a military leader not an idealogue. He
fought because that was his profession... and he killed any
who were seditious or treasonous against the rebel cause, by
hanging and firing squad. You are such a fucking idiot.
No, you once again show that you are the Idiot.
Washington became a soldier out of neccessity.
For you to even try to make such a comparision shows how stupid you
are.
Let's hear your half-***** response. You show no real grasp of
the issues.
LOL!!!
You have disqualified yourself from this discussion with your idiotic
claims above.
Tony
What don't you understand about that, Clown?
Tony
That you do not know that it is these very same people who were ruling
over Iraq while Saddam was in power is just one more piece of evidence
as to how clueless you are.
Tony
.
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| User: "Perseid" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
13 Mar 2005 05:11:45 PM |
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Spat the Words
Spat the Words
Spat the Words
Perseid wrote:
Spat the Words
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals
don't
understand this is just incredible.
Oh they're experiencing democracy... like the 40 dead Iraqis
found near the Syrian border, and the car bomb that blew up
150 Iraqis (body parts flying all over the place). Democracy
is sprouting up all over Iraq.
Hey Nitwit,
Those 40 dead Iraqi's were killed by the Terrorists, as were the 150
blown up by the car bomb!
Terrorists or Freedom Fighters.
You fucking Clown, how can you call Saddam thugs "freedom fighters"?
We caught all saddam's thugs. The ones remaining are average
sunnis,
Could you be anymore Clueless?
There were hundreds of thousands of Republican Guards, another 50,000
special guards, and 25,000 if the Feyadeeen.
Why don' you go back to sleep and leave this discussion to people who
have at least a small clue?
These are the same people who repressed and tortured innocent Iraqi's
under Saddam rule.
Nah, those people all got killed. The only ones left fighting are
people who used to be peaceful, but now GWB has turned them into
angry radical muslims.
You're a fucking Idiot!!!
George Washington was considered a terrorist by the British.
That a person of youe intellect can actuallt turn on a computer amazes
me, George Washington was fighting for Freedom and deomcracy, these
Saddam thugs are fighting to reinstall a dictatorship.
George Washington was a military leader not an idealogue. He
fought because that was his profession... and he killed any
who were seditious or treasonous against the rebel cause, by
hanging and firing squad. You are such a fucking idiot.
No, you once again show that you are the Idiot.
Washington became a soldier out of neccessity.
For you to even try to make such a comparision shows how stupid you
are.
Let's hear your half-***** response. You show no real grasp of
the issues.
LOL!!!
You have disqualified yourself from this discussion with your idiotic
claims above.
Please tell me that means you'll stop visiting apn.
Tony
What don't you understand about that, Clown?
Tony
That you do not know that it is these very same people who were
ruling
over Iraq while Saddam was in power is just one more piece of
evidence
as to how clueless you are.
Tony
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
14 Mar 2005 05:30:08 AM |
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itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
Perseid wrote:
itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals
don't
understand this is just incredible.
Oh they're experiencing democracy... like the 40 dead Iraqis
found near the Syrian border, and the car bomb that blew up
150 Iraqis (body parts flying all over the place). Democracy
is sprouting up all over Iraq.
Hey Nitwit,
Those 40 dead Iraqi's were killed by the Terrorists, as were the 150
blown up by the car bomb!
Terrorists or Freedom Fighters.
You fucking Clown, how can you call Saddam thugs "freedom fighters"?
We caught all saddam's thugs. The ones remaining are average
sunnis,
Could you be anymore Clueless?
There were hundreds of thousands of Republican Guards, another 50,000
special guards, and 25,000 if the Feyadeeen.
Why don' you go back to sleep and leave this discussion to people who
have at least a small clue?
These are the same people who repressed and tortured innocent Iraqi's
under Saddam rule.
Nah, those people all got killed. The only ones left fighting are
people who used to be peaceful, but now GWB has turned them into
angry radical muslims.
You're a fucking Idiot!!!
George Washington was considered a terrorist by the British.
That a person of youe intellect can actuallt turn on a computer amazes
me, George Washington was fighting for Freedom and deomcracy, these
Saddam thugs are fighting to reinstall a dictatorship.
George Washington was a military leader not an idealogue. He
fought because that was his profession... and he killed any
who were seditious or treasonous against the rebel cause, by
hanging and firing squad. You are such a fucking idiot.
No, you once again show that you are the Idiot.
Washington became a soldier out of neccessity.
For you to even try to make such a comparision shows how stupid you
are.
Let's hear your half-***** response. You show no real grasp of
the issues.
LOL!!!
You have disqualified yourself from this discussion with your idiotic
claims above.
Please tell me that means you'll stop visiting apn.
I should stop visiting APN because you;re clueless??
I don't think so.
Tony
Tony
What don't you understand about that, Clown?
Tony
That you do not know that it is these very same people who were
ruling
over Iraq while Saddam was in power is just one more piece of
evidence
as to how clueless you are.
Tony
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
11 Mar 2005 04:37:04 PM |
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wrote:
Perseid wrote:
Spat the Words
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals don't
understand this is just incredible.
Oh they're experiencing democracy... like the 40 dead Iraqis
found near the Syrian border, and the car bomb that blew up
150 Iraqis (body parts flying all over the place). Democracy
is sprouting up all over Iraq.
Hey Nitwit,
Those 40 dead Iraqi's were killed by the Terrorists, as were the 150
blown up by the car bomb!
That you do not know that it is these very same people who were ruling
over Iraq while Saddam was in power is just one more piece of evidence
as to how clueless you are.
But, it wasn't our problem. If the Iraqi people wanted democracy badly
enough, they'd have united and gotten rid of Saddam. But, the truth of
the matter, which you don't seem to be able to get, is that they have
several factions which will NOT accept anything but power by themselves
- no sharing allowed. That's exactly what's happening now, and that's
exactly what will continue to happen. It's not what I want, it's just
the way it is, and it's a waste of American time, money, and lives to
try to have them do something they simply aren't capable of doing. And
that's regardless of whether it's even ethical for us to engage in such
attempts to begin with, which I do not believe it is.
Woods
Tony
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
12 Mar 2005 09:58:28 AM |
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itwill@happen.com wrote:
Perseid wrote:
itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals don't
understand this is just incredible.
Oh they're experiencing democracy... like the 40 dead Iraqis
found near the Syrian border, and the car bomb that blew up
150 Iraqis (body parts flying all over the place). Democracy
is sprouting up all over Iraq.
Hey Nitwit,
Those 40 dead Iraqi's were killed by the Terrorists, as were the 150
blown up by the car bomb!
That you do not know that it is these very same people who were ruling
over Iraq while Saddam was in power is just one more piece of evidence
as to how clueless you are.
But, it wasn't our problem. If the Iraqi people wanted democracy badly
enough, they'd have united and gotten rid of Saddam.
Woods
Well Sandy, since you show no grasp of reality here there is no point
in discussing this any further.
Tony
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| User: "Perseid" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
11 Mar 2005 11:03:17 PM |
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Woodswun <woodswun@tepidmail.com> Spat the Words
itwill@happen.com wrote:
Perseid wrote:
itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals don't
understand this is just incredible.
Oh they're experiencing democracy... like the 40 dead Iraqis
found near the Syrian border, and the car bomb that blew up
150 Iraqis (body parts flying all over the place). Democracy
is sprouting up all over Iraq.
Hey Nitwit,
Those 40 dead Iraqi's were killed by the Terrorists, as were the 150
blown up by the car bomb!
That you do not know that it is these very same people who were ruling
over Iraq while Saddam was in power is just one more piece of evidence
as to how clueless you are.
But, it wasn't our problem. If the Iraqi people wanted democracy badly
enough, they'd have united and gotten rid of Saddam. But, the truth of
the matter, which you don't seem to be able to get, is that they have
several factions which will NOT accept anything but power by themselves
- no sharing allowed.
Yep. Eventually the US gov't will realize the costs far far
outweigh any benefit we could ever hope to get. Then we leave,
and the US-trained shiites pick up where the US troops left off -
fighting the sunnis. It's a ready-made civil war. The US may want
to consider redrawing geo-political boundaries to minimize blood-shed.
That's exactly what's happening now, and that's
exactly what will continue to happen. It's not what I want, it's just
the way it is, and it's a waste of American time, money, and lives to
try to have them do something they simply aren't capable of doing. And
that's regardless of whether it's even ethical for us to engage in such
attempts to begin with, which I do not believe it is.
Woods
Tony
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
12 Mar 2005 06:06:30 AM |
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"Perseid" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9616E05A01B1Errfkwrantispamattbic@216.196.97.136...
Woodswun <woodswun@tepidmail.com> Spat the Words
itwill@happen.com wrote:
Perseid wrote:
itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals don't
understand this is just incredible.
Oh they're experiencing democracy... like the 40 dead Iraqis
found near the Syrian border, and the car bomb that blew up
150 Iraqis (body parts flying all over the place). Democracy
is sprouting up all over Iraq.
Hey Nitwit,
Those 40 dead Iraqi's were killed by the Terrorists, as were the 150
blown up by the car bomb!
That you do not know that it is these very same people who were ruling
over Iraq while Saddam was in power is just one more piece of evidence
as to how clueless you are.
But, it wasn't our problem. If the Iraqi people wanted democracy badly
enough, they'd have united and gotten rid of Saddam. But, the truth of
the matter, which you don't seem to be able to get, is that they have
several factions which will NOT accept anything but power by themselves
- no sharing allowed.
Yep. Eventually the US gov't will realize the costs far far
outweigh any benefit we could ever hope to get. Then we leave,
and the US-trained shiites pick up where the US troops left off -
fighting the sunnis. It's a ready-made civil war.
Oooooh yes.. and let's not forget the Kurds..
The US may want
to consider redrawing geo-political boundaries to minimize blood-shed.
Except if they did, they'd have to create a Kurdish state too which would
***** the Turks right off. THe Kurdish issue is one of the most egregious
bits of doublethink about this enterprise - In the US admin's eyes, Kurds
are brave freedom fighters who struggled against the tyranny and oppression
of Saddam's reign - as long as they stay in Iraq/Iran - if they go a few
miles north (i.e. Turkey) they are filthy terrorist scum and legitimate
targets in T.W.A.T (The War Against Terror)..
That's exactly what's happening now, and that's
exactly what will continue to happen. It's not what I want, it's just
the way it is, and it's a waste of American time, money, and lives to
try to have them do something they simply aren't capable of doing. And
that's regardless of whether it's even ethical for us to engage in such
attempts to begin with, which I do not believe it is.
Woods
Tony
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| User: "Perseid" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
13 Mar 2005 04:11:42 AM |
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"tw" <no@no.com> Spat the Words
"Perseid" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9616E05A01B1Errfkwrantispamattbic@216.196.97.136...
Woodswun <woodswun@tepidmail.com> Spat the Words
itwill@happen.com wrote:
Perseid wrote:
itwill@happen.com Spat the Words
Well guess what Sandy, they would NEVER have gotten to experience
democracy if we just let Saddam be. That you and other Liberals
don't
understand this is just incredible.
Oh they're experiencing democracy... like the 40 dead Iraqis
found near the Syrian border, and the car bomb that blew up
150 Iraqis (body parts flying all over the place). Democracy
is sprouting up all over Iraq.
Hey Nitwit,
Those 40 dead Iraqi's were killed by the Terrorists, as were the 150
blown up by the car bomb!
That you do not know that it is these very same people who were
ruling
over Iraq while Saddam was in power is just one more piece of
evidence
as to how clueless you are.
But, it wasn't our problem. If the Iraqi people wanted democracy
badly
enough, they'd have united and gotten rid of Saddam. But, the truth
of
the matter, which you don't seem to be able to get, is that they have
several factions which will NOT accept anything but power by
themselves
- no sharing allowed.
Yep. Eventually the US gov't will realize the costs far far
outweigh any benefit we could ever hope to get. Then we leave,
and the US-trained shiites pick up where the US troops left off -
fighting the sunnis. It's a ready-made civil war.
Oooooh yes.. and let's not forget the Kurds..
The US may want
to consider redrawing geo-political boundaries to minimize blood-shed.
Except if they did, they'd have to create a Kurdish state too which would
***** the Turks right off. THe Kurdish issue is one of the most egregious
bits of doublethink about this enterprise - In the US admin's eyes, Kurds
are brave freedom fighters who struggled against the tyranny and
oppression
of Saddam's reign - as long as they stay in Iraq/Iran - if they go a few
miles north (i.e. Turkey) they are filthy terrorist scum and legitimate
targets in T.W.A.T (The War Against Terror)..
There are a few sunnis in northern kurd areas, but by and large
most conflict will be sunni vs shiite. Sunnis might get a brain
and realize the kurds would be easier targets and have
large oil reserves in the north. Initially though, most conflict
would be in central Iraq as those areas have a pretty even spread
of sunnis and shiites. I guess it remains to be seen how much
control the new Iraqi gov't can maintain.
That's exactly what's happening now, and that's
exactly what will continue to happen. It's not what I want, it's just
the way it is, and it's a waste of American time, money, and lives to
try to have them do something they simply aren't capable of doing.
And
that's regardless of whether it's even ethical for us to engage in
such
attempts to begin with, which I do not believe it is.
Woods
Tony
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| User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
11 Mar 2005 04:42:00 PM |
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Woodswun wrote:
itwill@happen.com wrote:
Perseid wrote:
But, it wasn't our problem. If the Iraqi people wanted democracy
badly
enough, they'd have united and gotten rid of Saddam.
Tell that to the Chinese demonstrators at Tienenanmen square in
June-July 1989 :(
Guns in the hands of the gov is dangerous as the Chinese citizens have
found out.
But, the truth of
the matter, which you don't seem to be able to get, is that they have
several factions which will NOT accept anything but power by
themselves
- no sharing allowed. That's exactly what's happening now, and
that's
exactly what will continue to happen. It's not what I want, it's
just
the way it is, and it's a waste of American time, money, and lives to
try to have them do something they simply aren't capable of doing.
And
that's regardless of whether it's even ethical for us to engage in
such
attempts to begin with, which I do not believe it is.
Woods
Tony
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
12 Mar 2005 09:00:00 AM |
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Michael Johnathan McDonald wrote:
Woodswun wrote:
itwill@happen.com wrote:
Perseid wrote:
But, it wasn't our problem. If the Iraqi people wanted democracy
badly
enough, they'd have united and gotten rid of Saddam.
Tell that to the Chinese demonstrators at Tienenanmen square in
June-July 1989 :(
Guns in the hands of the gov is dangerous as the Chinese citizens have
found out.
True, but it was only a small percentage of the Chinese population that
participated. Plus, they don't seem to be all that dissatisfied with
their government. Yeah, there are abuses, but even the US has been
fingered by the Human Rights Commission for abuses.
Woods
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
11 Mar 2005 04:33:32 PM |
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wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
Showdown at border ?
Violent, terror-connected gang threatens
to confront civilian immigration patrols
Posted: March 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
2005 WorldNetDaily.com
It looks like there is going to be a second "showdown at the OK
Corral" in Tombstone, Ariz., April 1.
A leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara
Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders
from federal prison to members of his international criminal
organization to teach a lesson to a group of Americans taking border
control into their own hands.
How unfortunate that Bush has sent our National Guard and army to look
after people in other countries, and has ignored his own.
Yeah, we should have just left the Iraqi people to suffer under Saddam
for another 30 years, right Sandy?
Well, if you think it's more important to force democracy down Iraq's
throat, then you've nothing to complain about.
LOL!!!
Forcing it down their throats are we?
Did they form their own democracy? Let's think about it a minute .....
nope.
After we deposed of Saddam that's exactly what they did.
Try again. THEY haven't done anything yet - they still have the
government *WE* put into place.
Did they invite anyone in to assist them in forming a democracy? Let's
think about that one ...... nope.
They couldn't invite anyone in while Saddam was standing on their
necks?
Are you really so dense?
Nope, I can see that you're engaging in demagoguery for the sole purpose
of "winning". No matter what was going on, if we weren't invited, we
forced our way in. End of discussion.
Woods
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Violent illegal alien gangs threaten border showdown |
12 Mar 2005 09:57:11 AM |
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itwill@happen.com wrote:
itwill@happen.com wrote:
itwill@happen.com wrote:
itwill@happen.com wrote:
Showdown at border ?
Violent, terror-connected gang threatens
to confront civilian immigration patrols
Posted: March 7, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
2005 WorldNetDaily.com
It looks like there is going to be a second "showdown at the OK
Corral" in Tombstone, Ariz., April 1.
A leader of the violent, terror-connected Latin American gang Mara
Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has reportedly issued orders
from federal prison to members of his international criminal
organization to teach a lesson to a group of Americans taking border
control into their own hands.
How unfortunate that Bush has sent our National Guard and army to look
after people in other countries, and has ignored his own.
Yeah, we should have just left the Iraqi people to suffer under Saddam
for another 30 years, right Sandy?
Well, if you think it's more important to force democracy down Iraq's
throat, then you've nothing to complain about.
LOL!!!
Forcing it down their throats are we?
Did they form their own democracy? Let's think about it a minute .....
nope.
After we deposed of Saddam that's exactly what they did.
Try again. THEY haven't done anything yet - they still have the
government *WE* put into place.
You'rw wrong.
Did they invite anyone in to assist them in forming a democracy? Let's
think about that one ...... nope.
They couldn't invite anyone in while Saddam was standing on their
necks?
Are you really so dense?
Nope,
Woods
You must be, if we follwed your view we would never have entered
Europe during WWII.
Tony
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