Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War



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Topic: Science > Prophecies-Of-Nostradamus
User: "R. Foreman"
Date: 14 Jan 2004 01:50:11 AM
Object: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War
Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War
Tue Jan 13, 6:25 PM ET
Associated Press Writer
MANCHESTER, N.H. - Democratic presidential candidate Wesley Clark (news -
web sites) on Tuesday criticized the timing of an investigation of former
Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill and suggested President Bush (news - web
sites) was more concerned with "political security" than national
security.
AP Photo
AP Photo
Slideshow: Wesley Clark


Campaigning in New Hampshire two weeks before its primary election, Clark
called for a full congressional investigation into why the United States
went to war in Iraq (news - web sites).
"We don't know what the motivation was. We just don't know. We've spent
$180 billion on it, we've lost 480 Americans, we've got 2,500 with life-
changing injuries," the retired general told reporters.
Clark contended that Bush was obsessed with Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein
(news - web sites), and with establishing a national missile defense, in
the months leading up to the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks — and did not
do enough to protect the nation against such an attack.
In a book released Tuesday, O'Neill criticized Bush's leadership style
and suggested he planned to go after Saddam even before the attacks.
The Treasury Department (news - web sites) announced on Monday that it
was launching an inspector general's investigation into how an agency
document stamped "secret" wound up being used in O'Neill's interview
Sunday night on the CBS program "60 Minutes."
O'Neill, who was fired a year ago in a shake-up of the Bush economic
team, has denied that classified documents were used in a book about his
two years in the administration.
Clark contrasted the speed of the O'Neill investigation with the slow
pace of an inquiry into who last summer divulged the name of a CIA (news
- web sites) official whose husband had criticized the president's Iraq
policy.
"They didn't wait 24 hours in initiating an investigation on Paul
O'Neill," Clark said. "They're not concerned about national security. But
they're really concerned about political security. I think they've got
their priorities upside down."
Democratic candidate Howard Dean (news - web sites) echoed the criticism:
"Paul O'Neill is not a threat to our national security," he said in a
statement. "But the disclosure of the identity of an undercover CIA
operative undermines a key tenet of national security and is a violation
of law."
Clark has bypassed Monday's Iowa caucuses in hopes of scoring well in the
New Hampshire first-in-the-nation primary Jan. 27.
The retired general told participants in a round-table discussion in
Manchester that his proposal to repeal Bush's tax cuts and ending all
taxes on families earning under $50,000 would lift more than 1 million
Americans out of poverty.
During the course of the campaign, Clark has tried to hitch his star to
former President Clinton (news - web sites), and in a conference call
with reporters Tuesday, Clark aides said the last Democratic president
has reviewed Clark's position papers, analyzed polling data and even
referred a major donor to Clark.
The other campaigns have said their candidates have spoken to Clinton as
well, seeking advice and guidance. Aides have said the former president
would not endorse in the primary race.
Several former Clinton administration officials now working for Clark
plan to campaign for him in New Hampshire this weekend.
.

User: "Steven Douglas"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 15 Jan 2004 07:31:43 PM
"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Xns9470881B34B9rrfkwrantispamattbic@63.240.76.16>...

Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War


Campaigning in New Hampshire two weeks before its primary election, Clark
called for a full congressional investigation into why the United States
went to war in Iraq (news - web sites).


"We don't know what the motivation was. We just don't know. We've spent
$180 billion on it, we've lost 480 Americans, we've got 2,500 with life-
changing injuries," the retired general told reporters.


It is odd that Clark doesn't know what the motivation was, since he
testified before the House Armed Services Committe on September 26,
2002, and said things like this:
[quote ] "At some point, it may become possible for Saddam to acquire
the fissionable materials or uranium ore that he needs.  And
therefore, Iraq is not a problem that can be indefinitely postponed.
"In addition, Saddam Hussein's current retention of chemical and
biological weapons and their respective delivery systems violates the
UN resolutions themselves, which carry the weight of international
law.  
"Our President has emphasized the urgency of eliminating these
weapons and weapons programs.   I strongly support his efforts to
encourage the United Nations to act on this problem.  And in taking
this to the United Nations, the President's clear determination to act
if the United Nations can't provides strong leverage undergirding
further diplomatic efforts." [end quote]
Complete statement of General Clark:
http://www.house.gov/hasc/openingstatementsandpressreleases/107thcongress/02-09-26clark.html
.
User: "Mitchell Kaufman"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 15 Jan 2004 09:56:48 PM
On 15 Jan 2004 17:31:43 -0800,
(Steven Douglas)
wrote:

"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Xns9470881B34B9rrfkwrantispamattbic@63.240.76.16>...

Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War


Campaigning in New Hampshire two weeks before its primary election, Clark
called for a full congressional investigation into why the United States
went to war in Iraq (news - web sites).


"We don't know what the motivation was. We just don't know. We've spent
$180 billion on it, we've lost 480 Americans, we've got 2,500 with life-
changing injuries," the retired general told reporters.


It is odd that Clark doesn't know what the motivation was, since he
testified before the House Armed Services Committe on September 26,
2002, and said things like this:

[quote ] "At some point, it may become possible for Saddam to acquire
the fissionable materials or uranium ore that he needs.  And
therefore, Iraq is not a problem that can be indefinitely postponed.

"In addition, Saddam Hussein's current retention of chemical and
biological weapons and their respective delivery systems violates the
UN resolutions themselves, which carry the weight of international
law.  

"Our President has emphasized the urgency of eliminating these
weapons and weapons programs.   I strongly support his efforts to
encourage the United Nations to act on this problem.  And in taking
this to the United Nations, the President's clear determination to act
if the United Nations can't provides strong leverage undergirding
further diplomatic efforts." [end quote]

Complete statement of General Clark:
http://www.house.gov/hasc/openingstatementsandpressreleases/107thcongress/02-09-26clark.html

Clark also talked about the ties between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, about
Saddam being a threat to the US and about the need to go it alone if
the UN wouldn't agree. In short, he sounded like Rumsfeld, Bush,
Powell, et al.
.
User: "TonyZ2001"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 18 Jan 2004 07:31:51 AM

Mitchell Kaufman

wrote:

Clark also talked about the ties between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, about
Saddam being a threat to the US and about the need to go it alone if
the UN wouldn't agree. In short, he sounded like Rumsfeld, Bush,
Powell, et al.

Of course he did, so did most of the Dems; all of the intelligence data from
numerous countries indicated that Iraq had, and was developing more WMD.
Even the Liberal UN came to the same conclusion just 2 weeks before teh war
began.
All of the Morons that are attacking Bush now are doing so purely to score
political points with people who are clueless as to the facts.
Tony
.
User: "Woodswun"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 18 Jan 2004 08:03:54 AM
In article <20040118083151.28383.00000226@mb-m01.aol.com>,
(TonyZ2001) wrote:

Mitchell Kaufman

wrote:

Clark also talked about the ties between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, about
Saddam being a threat to the US and about the need to go it alone if
the UN wouldn't agree. In short, he sounded like Rumsfeld, Bush,
Powell, et al.


Of course he did, so did most of the Dems; all of the intelligence data from
numerous countries indicated that Iraq had, and was developing more WMD.

Even the Liberal UN came to the same conclusion just 2 weeks before teh war
began.

All because the people who were acting as a filter for the intelligence reports
chose to misrepresent the information contained in the reports, and outright
lied about the conclusions that the intelligence community came to in regards to
the intelligence.


All of the Morons that are attacking Bush now are doing so purely to score
political points with people who are clueless as to the facts.

What "facts"?!? They were lies - that's the problem! (And with a lot more
serious implications for this country and the world than lies about some stupid
zipper problem).
Woods
.
User: "Steven Douglas"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 18 Jan 2004 12:52:23 PM
(Woodswun) wrote in message news:<enwOb.36817$Su5.21846@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...

In article <20040118083151.28383.00000226@mb-m01.aol.com>,

(TonyZ2001) wrote:

Mitchell Kaufman

wrote:

Clark also talked about the ties between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, about
Saddam being a threat to the US and about the need to go it alone if
the UN wouldn't agree. In short, he sounded like Rumsfeld, Bush,
Powell, et al.


Of course he did, so did most of the Dems; all of the intelligence data from
numerous countries indicated that Iraq had, and was developing more WMD.

Even the Liberal UN came to the same conclusion just 2 weeks before teh war
began.


All because the people who were acting as a filter for the intelligence
reports chose to misrepresent the information contained in the
reports, and outright lied about the conclusions that the intelligence
community came to in regards to the intelligence.

Not true. As stated above, intelligence data from numberous countries
indicated Iraq, with its WMD's, was a growing threat. The Clinton
appointed CIA director agreed with that assessment.


All of the Morons that are attacking Bush now are doing so purely to score
political points with people who are clueless as to the facts.


What "facts"?!?

The facts that you do not remember (as you have admitted in another
thread).

They were lies - that's the problem! (And with a lot more serious
implications for this country and the world than lies about some stupid
zipper problem).

Then you're accusing President Clinton of lying about those facts as
well.
.
User: "Steven Douglas"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 18 Jan 2004 05:51:40 PM
(Woodswun) wrote:

Bush stands alone on lying to Congress in order to get us
into war.

Western intelligence experts were saying Saddam might give WMDs to Al
Qaeda (and Congress had access to those reports). The idea was to stop
that from happening.

The only lie anyone is gonna remember about Clinton had to do
with a ***** he got - not terribly relevent

I agree it's not relevant. So why do you keep bringing it up?

to anyone who isn't an American borrow-and-spend neocon.

Makes me wonder why you're the one who brought it up?
.
User: "Steven Douglas"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 18 Jan 2004 11:14:33 PM
(Woodswun) wrote:
In article <a2b35e99.0401181551.7a021720@posting.google.com>,
dsteven@flashmail.com (Steven Douglas) wrote:
(Woodswun) wrote:

Bush stands alone on lying to Congress in order to
get us into war.

Western intelligence experts were saying Saddam might
give WMDs to Al Qaeda (and Congress had access to those
reports). The idea was to stop that from happening.

No, they said that was unlikely *unless* we invaded
Iraq. You seem to have the same selective vision
that afflicts Bush!

October 2002 ...
"Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs"
http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm
They said they weren't absolutely sure when or why or how Saddam would
use WMDs. They did say he *might* be more likely to share them with Al
Qaeda if he felt threatened, but that does NOT say he wouldn't share
them under other circumstances.
You say "unlikely" ... okay ... what would you have done?
*Hoped* he wouldn't share them?
Waited until he shared them?
Then what would you have done after that?

The only lie anyone is gonna remember about Clinton had
to do with a ***** he got - not terribly relevent

I agree it's not relevant. So why do you keep bringing it up?

IIRC, you're the one who keeps bringing Clinton up.

Nice evasive tactic! I keep bringing up Clinton because he was
President, and a major player in dealing with the developing WMD
crisis in Iraq. But I am NOT the one who brought up Monica, you did.
And you were right, it's not relevant. So stop bringing it up.
.
User: "Steven Douglas"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 19 Jan 2004 11:29:53 AM
(Woodswun) wrote:

There was no "developing WMD crisis" in Iraq under
Clinton - there was a question mark, nothing more.


Just because you don't remember it accurately doesn't mean it didn't
happen. Whether you like it or not, President Clinton termed the
situation in Iraq a "crisis" on February 17, 1998:

[quote] "Those who have questioned the United States in this moment, I
would argue, are living only in the moment. They have neither
remembered the past, nor imagined the future. So, first, let's just
take a step back and consider why meeting the threat posed by Saddam
Hussein is important to our security in the new era we are entering."

"I want the American people to understand, first, the past: How did
this crisis come about. And I want them to understand what we must do
to protect the national interest and, indeed, the interest of all
freedom-loving people in the world."

"Now, instead of playing by the very rules he agreed to at the end of
the Gulf War, Saddam has spent the better part of the past decade
trying to cheat on this solemn commitment. Consider just some of the
facts. Iraq repeatedly made false declarations about the weapons that
it had left in its possession after the Gulf War. When UNSCOM would
then uncover evidence that gave lie to those declarations, Iraq would
simply amend the reports. For example, Iraq revised its nuclear
declarations four times within just 14 months, and it has submitted
six different biological warfare declarations, each of which has been
rejected by UNSCOM."
"In 1995, Hussein Kamel, Saddam's son-in-law and the chief organizer
of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, defected to Jordan. He
revealed that Iraq was continuing to conceal weapons and missiles and
the capacity to build many more. Then, and only then, did Iraq admit
to developing numbers of weapons in significant quantities, and weapon
stocks. Previously it had vehemently denied the very thing it just
simply admitted once Saddam Hussein's son-in-law defected to Jordan
and told the truth."

"Next, throughout this entire process, Iraqi agents have undermined
and undercut UNSCOM. They've harassed the inspectors, lied to them,
disabled monitoring cameras, literally spirited evidence out of the
back doors of suspect facilities as inspectors walked through the
front door -- and our people were there observing it and have the
pictures to prove it."
"What if he fails to comply and we fail to act, or we take some
ambiguous third route which gives him yet more opportunities to
develop this program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to
press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the
solemn commitments that he made? Well, he will conclude that the
international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that
he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating
destruction. And some day, some way, I guarantee you, he'll use the
arsenal."

"Let me be clear: A military operation cannot destroy all the weapons
of mass destruction capacity. But it can, and will, leave him
significantly worse off than he is now in terms of the ability to
threaten the world with these weapons, or to attack his neighbors. And
he will know that the international community continues to have the
will to act if and when he threatens again."
"Following any strike, we will carefully monitor Iraq's activities
with all the means at our disposal. If he seeks to rebuild his weapons
of mass destruction we will be prepared to strike him again. The
economic sanctions will remain in place until Saddam complies fully
with all U.N. resolutions."

"Now, let me say to all of you here, as all of you know, the
weightiest decision any President ever has to make is to send our
troops into harm's way. And force can never be the first answer. But
sometimes it's the only answer."

"Let there be no doubt, we are prepared to act. But Saddam Hussein
could end this crisis tomorrow, simply by letting the weapons
inspectors complete their mission. He made a solemn commitment to the
international community to do that and to give up his weapons of mass
destruction a long time ago, now. One way or the other, we are
determined to see that he makes good on his own promise."
"In this century we learned through harsh experience that the only
answer to aggression and illegal behavior is firmness, determination,
and, when necessary, action."
"And we still have, God willing, a chance to find a diplomatic
resolution to this, and if not, God willing, the chance to do the
right thing for our children and grandchildren." [end quote]
The complete transcript is here:
http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1998/02/17/98021704_tpo.html
.
User: "Woodswun"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 19 Jan 2004 11:51:50 AM
In article <a2b35e99.0401190929.15cf50d1@posting.google.com>,
(Steven Douglas) wrote:

woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote:

There was no "developing WMD crisis" in Iraq under
Clinton - there was a question mark, nothing more.


Just because you don't remember it accurately doesn't mean it didn't
happen. Whether you like it or not, President Clinton termed the
situation in Iraq a "crisis" on February 17, 1998:

[quote] "Those who have questioned the United States in this moment, I
would argue, are living only in the moment. They have neither
remembered the past, nor imagined the future. So, first, let's just
take a step back and consider why meeting the threat posed by Saddam
Hussein is important to our security in the new era we are entering."

"I want the American people to understand, first, the past: How did
this crisis come about. And I want them to understand what we must do
to protect the national interest and, indeed, the interest of all
freedom-loving people in the world."

"Now, instead of playing by the very rules he agreed to at the end of
the Gulf War, Saddam has spent the better part of the past decade
trying to cheat on this solemn commitment. Consider just some of the
facts. Iraq repeatedly made false declarations about the weapons that
it had left in its possession after the Gulf War. When UNSCOM would
then uncover evidence that gave lie to those declarations, Iraq would
simply amend the reports. For example, Iraq revised its nuclear
declarations four times within just 14 months, and it has submitted
six different biological warfare declarations, each of which has been
rejected by UNSCOM."

"In 1995, Hussein Kamel, Saddam's son-in-law and the chief organizer
of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, defected to Jordan. He
revealed that Iraq was continuing to conceal weapons and missiles and
the capacity to build many more. Then, and only then, did Iraq admit
to developing numbers of weapons in significant quantities, and weapon
stocks. Previously it had vehemently denied the very thing it just
simply admitted once Saddam Hussein's son-in-law defected to Jordan
and told the truth."

"Next, throughout this entire process, Iraqi agents have undermined
and undercut UNSCOM. They've harassed the inspectors, lied to them,
disabled monitoring cameras, literally spirited evidence out of the
back doors of suspect facilities as inspectors walked through the
front door -- and our people were there observing it and have the
pictures to prove it."

"What if he fails to comply and we fail to act, or we take some
ambiguous third route which gives him yet more opportunities to
develop this program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to
press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the
solemn commitments that he made? Well, he will conclude that the
international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that
he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating
destruction. And some day, some way, I guarantee you, he'll use the
arsenal."

"Let me be clear: A military operation cannot destroy all the weapons
of mass destruction capacity. But it can, and will, leave him
significantly worse off than he is now in terms of the ability to
threaten the world with these weapons, or to attack his neighbors. And
he will know that the international community continues to have the
will to act if and when he threatens again."

"Following any strike, we will carefully monitor Iraq's activities
with all the means at our disposal. If he seeks to rebuild his weapons
of mass destruction we will be prepared to strike him again. The
economic sanctions will remain in place until Saddam complies fully
with all U.N. resolutions."

"Now, let me say to all of you here, as all of you know, the
weightiest decision any President ever has to make is to send our
troops into harm's way. And force can never be the first answer. But
sometimes it's the only answer."

"Let there be no doubt, we are prepared to act. But Saddam Hussein
could end this crisis tomorrow, simply by letting the weapons
inspectors complete their mission. He made a solemn commitment to the
international community to do that and to give up his weapons of mass
destruction a long time ago, now. One way or the other, we are
determined to see that he makes good on his own promise."

"In this century we learned through harsh experience that the only
answer to aggression and illegal behavior is firmness, determination,
and, when necessary, action."

"And we still have, God willing, a chance to find a diplomatic
resolution to this, and if not, God willing, the chance to do the
right thing for our children and grandchildren." [end quote]

The complete transcript is here:
http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1998/02/17/98021704_tpo.html

Okay, I read it - he was saying that the inspections program was working and
would be sufficient to contain Saddam Hussein. He was *not* claiming that
Hussein was constructing chemical/biological weapons (a "program" can be a
couple of scientists in a think tank with no facilities except a computer, a
couple of pads of paper, and a couple of pencils), nor did he claim that Iraq
had nuclear weapon capabilities (or even that they were close to achieving
that), nor was he claiming that there was an imminent threat from Iraq.
In short, nothing whatsoever like what Bush claimed was going on, based on the
exact same types of intelligence reports.
Woods
.


User: "Woodswun"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 19 Jan 2004 07:22:10 AM
In article <a2b35e99.0401182114.589763db@posting.google.com>,
(Steven Douglas) wrote:

woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote:

In article <a2b35e99.0401181551.7a021720@posting.google.com>,

(Steven Douglas) wrote:

woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote:

Bush stands alone on lying to Congress in order to
get us into war.


Western intelligence experts were saying Saddam might
give WMDs to Al Qaeda (and Congress had access to those
reports). The idea was to stop that from happening.


No, they said that was unlikely *unless* we invaded
Iraq. You seem to have the same selective vision
that afflicts Bush!


October 2002 ...
"Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs"
http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm

They said they weren't absolutely sure when or why or how Saddam would
use WMDs. They did say he *might* be more likely to share them with Al
Qaeda if he felt threatened, but that does NOT say he wouldn't share
them under other circumstances.

You say "unlikely" ... okay ... what would you have done?

*Hoped* he wouldn't share them?

Waited until he shared them?

Then what would you have done after that?

The only lie anyone is gonna remember about Clinton had
to do with a ***** he got - not terribly relevent


I agree it's not relevant. So why do you keep bringing it up?


IIRC, you're the one who keeps bringing Clinton up.


Nice evasive tactic! I keep bringing up Clinton because he was
President, and a major player in dealing with the developing WMD
crisis in Iraq. But I am NOT the one who brought up Monica, you did.
And you were right, it's not relevant. So stop bringing it up.

There was no "developing WMD crisis" in Iraq under Clinton - there was a
question mark, nothing more.
Woods
.
User: "Steven Douglas"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 19 Jan 2004 12:59:24 PM
(Woodswun) wrote:

Okay, I read it - he was saying that the inspections program was
working and would be sufficient to contain Saddam Hussein.

Good spin. He was *hoping* the inspections would be enough (turns out
they weren't since 10 months later he felt compelled to launch a 4 day
bombardment on Iraq).

He was *not* claiming that Hussein was constructing

chemical/biological

weapons (a "program" can be a couple of scientists in a think tank with
no facilities except a computer, a couple of pads of paper, and a couple
of pencils), nor did he claim that Iraq had nuclear weapon capabilities
(or even that they were close to achieving that), nor was he claiming
that there was an imminent threat from Iraq.

Again, the idea is to PREVENT the imminent threat. That was 1998 --
FIVE years prior to where we were last year at this time.

In short, nothing whatsoever like what Bush claimed was going on,
based on the exact same types of intelligence reports.

For those of you who think the President "lied" about the
intelligence, here is House Minority Leader and Presidential Candidate
Richard Gephardt proclaiming he didn't listen to President Bush about
the intelligence on Iraqi WMDs. Instead, before voting to authorize
the war, he reached his own conclusion from an independent
investigation of the intelligence:
[quoting from the transcript of NBC News Meet the Press with Tim
Russert, January 18, 2004]
REP. GEPHARDT:  Now, I didn't listen to him about the weapons of
mass destruction.  I went to the CIA, talked to George Tenet, I talked
with his top people.  I talked to former Clinton officials.  I became
convinced that Saddam Hussein either had weapons or components of
weapons that could wind up in the United States.  We cannot have a
weapon of mass destruction used in the United States, and I'll do
anything in my power to prevent that from happening. [end quote]
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3979910/
.
User: "Anonymoose Ihatespam"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 19 Jan 2004 01:40:31 PM
(Steven Douglas) wrote in
news:a2b35e99.0401191059.442a4157@posting.google.com:

woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote:

Okay, I read it - he was saying that the inspections program was
working and would be sufficient to contain Saddam Hussein.


Good spin. He was *hoping* the inspections would be enough (turns out
they weren't since 10 months later he felt compelled to launch a 4 day
bombardment on Iraq).

He was *not* claiming that Hussein was constructing

chemical/biological

weapons (a "program" can be a couple of scientists in a think tank

with

no facilities except a computer, a couple of pads of paper, and a

couple

of pencils), nor did he claim that Iraq had nuclear weapon

capabilities

(or even that they were close to achieving that), nor was he claiming
that there was an imminent threat from Iraq.


Again, the idea is to PREVENT the imminent threat. That was 1998 --
FIVE years prior to where we were last year at this time.

In short, nothing whatsoever like what Bush claimed was going on,
based on the exact same types of intelligence reports.


For those of you who think the President "lied" about the
intelligence, here is House Minority Leader and Presidential Candidate
Richard Gephardt proclaiming he didn't listen to President Bush about
the intelligence on Iraqi WMDs. Instead, before voting to authorize
the war, he reached his own conclusion from an independent
investigation of the intelligence:

[quoting from the transcript of NBC News Meet the Press with Tim
Russert, January 18, 2004]
REP. GEPHARDT:  Now, I didn't listen to him about the weapons of
mass destruction.  I went to the CIA, talked to George Tenet, I talked
with his top people.  I talked to former Clinton officials.  I became
convinced that Saddam Hussein either had weapons or components of
weapons that could wind up in the United States.  We cannot have a
weapon of mass destruction used in the United States, and I'll do
anything in my power to prevent that from happening. [end quote]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3979910/

Please, don't confuse the weenies here with the facts.
.

User: "Woodswun"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 19 Jan 2004 02:29:10 PM
In article <a2b35e99.0401191059.442a4157@posting.google.com>,
(Steven Douglas) wrote:

woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote:

Okay, I read it - he was saying that the inspections program was
working and would be sufficient to contain Saddam Hussein.


Good spin. He was *hoping* the inspections would be enough (turns out
they weren't since 10 months later he felt compelled to launch a 4 day
bombardment on Iraq).

You can add to what was said if it helps you to prop up your support of Bush if
you like - but the fact is that it was Bush who lied to Congress and the UN to
launch a preplanned invasion of Iraq and take it over, not someone else.


He was *not* claiming that Hussein was constructing

chemical/biological

weapons (a "program" can be a couple of scientists in a think tank with
no facilities except a computer, a couple of pads of paper, and a couple
of pencils), nor did he claim that Iraq had nuclear weapon capabilities
(or even that they were close to achieving that), nor was he claiming
that there was an imminent threat from Iraq.


Again, the idea is to PREVENT the imminent threat. That was 1998 --
FIVE years prior to where we were last year at this time.

As stated previously - there was virtually no change in intelligence for the
last 5-6 years, certainly no evidence of any imminent threat.


In short, nothing whatsoever like what Bush claimed was going on,
based on the exact same types of intelligence reports.


For those of you who think the President "lied" about the
intelligence, here is House Minority Leader and Presidential Candidate
Richard Gephardt proclaiming he didn't listen to President Bush about
the intelligence on Iraqi WMDs. Instead, before voting to authorize
the war, he reached his own conclusion from an independent
investigation of the intelligence:

Weren't you just complaining about bringing up people and events that have
nothing to do with the topic? We are discussing Bush lying to the American
people, Congress and the UN.

[quoting from the transcript of NBC News Meet the Press with Tim
Russert, January 18, 2004]
REP. GEPHARDT:  Now, I didn't listen to him about the weapons of
mass destruction.  I went to the CIA, talked to George Tenet, I talked
with his top people.  I talked to former Clinton officials.  I became
convinced that Saddam Hussein either had weapons or components of
weapons that could wind up in the United States.  We cannot have a
weapon of mass destruction used in the United States, and I'll do
anything in my power to prevent that from happening. [end quote]

Bush, Sr lied through his teeth and said "no new taxes" when he was campaigning
- so, we just know that candidates will lie. Big deal. Although, I did find
the bit about Gephardt calling Bush "uninformed" and "inexperienced" to be
mildly amusing, it was a typical, say-anything-to-get-votes type of interview
that means less than nothing.
BTW - this thread is over, as far as I'm concerned You obviously will latch
onto anything at all, even a single sentence in a campaign interveiw, to
attempt to place blame on anyone but Bush for his lies to Congress and the
American people. Moreover, you are apparently spending an inordinate amount
of time to go looking up something, anything, to prop Bush up.
How sad.
Woods
.
User: "Steven Douglas"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 19 Jan 2004 11:56:16 PM
(Woodswun) wrote in message news:<q6XOb.19894$Fe1.10116@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...

In article <a2b35e99.0401191059.442a4157@posting.google.com>,

(Steven Douglas) wrote:


For those of you who think the President "lied" about the
intelligence, here is House Minority Leader and Presidential Candidate
Richard Gephardt proclaiming he didn't listen to President Bush about
the intelligence on Iraqi WMDs. Instead, before voting to authorize
the war, he reached his own conclusion from an independent
investigation of the intelligence:


Weren't you just complaining about bringing up people and events that have
nothing to do with the topic? We are discussing Bush lying to the American
people, Congress and the UN.

What are you talking about? Gephardt is the Democratic Leader in the
House of Representatives. You think he has nothing to do with the
topic?

[quoting from the transcript of NBC News Meet the Press with Tim
Russert, January 18, 2004]
REP. GEPHARDT:  Now, I didn't listen to him about the weapons of
mass destruction.  I went to the CIA, talked to George Tenet, I talked
with his top people.  I talked to former Clinton officials.  I became
convinced that Saddam Hussein either had weapons or components of
weapons that could wind up in the United States.  We cannot have a
weapon of mass destruction used in the United States, and I'll do
anything in my power to prevent that from happening. [end quote]


BTW - this thread is over, as far as I'm concerned You obviously will latch
onto anything at all, even a single sentence in a campaign interveiw, to
attempt to place blame on anyone but Bush for his lies to Congress and the
American people. Moreover, you are apparently spending an inordinate amount
of time to go looking up something, anything, to prop Bush up.

How sad.

Actually it's a lot of fun to provide you with facts, backed up with
sources, and then watch you provide uninformed drivel in return.
.





User: "Woodswun"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 18 Jan 2004 06:39:13 PM
In article <a2b35e99.0401181551.7a021720@posting.google.com>,
(Steven Douglas) wrote:

woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote:

Bush stands alone on lying to Congress in order to get us
into war.


Western intelligence experts were saying Saddam might give WMDs to Al
Qaeda (and Congress had access to those reports). The idea was to stop
that from happening.

No, they said that was unlikely *unless* we invaded Iraq. You seem to have the
same selective vision that afflicts Bush!


The only lie anyone is gonna remember about Clinton had to do
with a ***** he got - not terribly relevent


I agree it's not relevant. So why do you keep bringing it up?

IIRC, you're the one who keeps bringing Clinton up.


to anyone who isn't an American borrow-and-spend neocon.


Makes me wonder why you're the one who brought it up?

See above.
Woods
.


User: "Woodswun"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 18 Jan 2004 03:33:57 PM
In article <a2b35e99.0401181052.5d515686@posting.google.com>,
(Steven Douglas) wrote:

woodswun@tepidmail.com (Woodswun) wrote in message
news:<enwOb.36817$Su5.21846@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...

In article <20040118083151.28383.00000226@mb-m01.aol.com>,


(TonyZ2001) wrote:

Mitchell Kaufman

wrote:

Clark also talked about the ties between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, about
Saddam being a threat to the US and about the need to go it alone if
the UN wouldn't agree. In short, he sounded like Rumsfeld, Bush,
Powell, et al.


Of course he did, so did most of the Dems; all of the intelligence data from
numerous countries indicated that Iraq had, and was developing more WMD.

Even the Liberal UN came to the same conclusion just 2 weeks before teh war
began.


All because the people who were acting as a filter for the intelligence
reports chose to misrepresent the information contained in the
reports, and outright lied about the conclusions that the intelligence
community came to in regards to the intelligence.


Not true. As stated above, intelligence data from numberous countries
indicated Iraq, with its WMD's, was a growing threat. The Clinton
appointed CIA director agreed with that assessment.


All of the Morons that are attacking Bush now are doing so purely to score
political points with people who are clueless as to the facts.


What "facts"?!?


The facts that you do not remember (as you have admitted in another
thread).

They were lies - that's the problem! (And with a lot more serious
implications for this country and the world than lies about some stupid
zipper problem).


Then you're accusing President Clinton of lying about those facts as
well.

Bush stands alone on lying to Congress in order to get us into war. The only
lie anyone is gonna remember about Clinton had to do with a ***** he got - not
terribly relevent to anyone who isn't an American borrow-and-spend neocon.
Woods
.




User: "R. Foreman"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 16 Jan 2004 10:04:29 AM
Mitchell Kaufman <noonebutme@home.com> Spat the Words

On 15 Jan 2004 17:31:43 -0800,

(Steven Douglas)
wrote:

"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<Xns9470881B34B9rrfkwrantispamattbic@63.240.76.16>...

Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War


Campaigning in New Hampshire two weeks before its primary election,
Clark called for a full congressional investigation into why the
United States went to war in Iraq (news - web sites).


"We don't know what the motivation was. We just don't know. We've
spent $180 billion on it, we've lost 480 Americans, we've got 2,500
with life- changing injuries," the retired general told reporters.


It is odd that Clark doesn't know what the motivation was, since he
testified before the House Armed Services Committe on September 26,
2002, and said things like this:

[quote ] "At some point, it may become possible for Saddam to acquire
the fissionable materials or uranium ore that he needs.  And
therefore, Iraq is not a problem that can be indefinitely postponed.

"In addition, Saddam Hussein's current retention of chemical and
biological weapons and their respective delivery systems violates the
UN resolutions themselves, which carry the weight of international
law.  

"Our President has emphasized the urgency of eliminating these
weapons and weapons programs.   I strongly support his efforts to
encourage the United Nations to act on this problem.  And in taking
this to the United Nations, the President's clear determination to act
if the United Nations can't provides strong leverage undergirding
further diplomatic efforts." [end quote]

Complete statement of General Clark:
http://www.house.gov/hasc/openingstatementsandpressreleases/107thcongre
ss/02-09-26clark.html


Clark also talked about the ties between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, about
Saddam being a threat to the US and about the need to go it alone if
the UN wouldn't agree. In short, he sounded like Rumsfeld, Bush,
Powell, et al.

Strangely similar to Powell, saying things that seem uncharacteristic
of him. We all know that the boss is always right, regardless
of our personal feelings, until we dump the boss for a new one.
.
User: "no"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 16 Jan 2004 05:00:39 PM
"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Xns94725C5117BB1rrfkwrantispamattbic@204.127.204.17>...

Mitchell Kaufman <noonebutme@home.com> Spat the Words

On 15 Jan 2004 17:31:43 -0800,

(Steven Douglas)
wrote:

"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<Xns9470881B34B9rrfkwrantispamattbic@63.240.76.16>...

Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War


Campaigning in New Hampshire two weeks before its primary election,
Clark called for a full congressional investigation into why the
United States went to war in Iraq (news - web sites).


"We don't know what the motivation was. We just don't know. We've
spent $180 billion on it, we've lost 480 Americans, we've got 2,500
with life- changing injuries," the retired general told reporters.


It is odd that Clark doesn't know what the motivation was, since he
testified before the House Armed Services Committe on September 26,
2002, and said things like this:

[quote ] "At some point, it may become possible for Saddam to acquire
the fissionable materials or uranium ore that he needs.  And
therefore, Iraq is not a problem that can be indefinitely postponed.

"In addition, Saddam Hussein's current retention of chemical and
biological weapons and their respective delivery systems violates the
UN resolutions themselves, which carry the weight of international
law.  

"Our President has emphasized the urgency of eliminating these
weapons and weapons programs.   I strongly support his efforts to
encourage the United Nations to act on this problem.  And in taking
this to the United Nations, the President's clear determination to act
if the United Nations can't provides strong leverage undergirding
further diplomatic efforts." [end quote]

Complete statement of General Clark:
http://www.house.gov/hasc/openingstatementsandpressreleases/107thcongre
ss/02-09-26clark.html


Clark also talked about the ties between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, about
Saddam being a threat to the US and about the need to go it alone if
the UN wouldn't agree. In short, he sounded like Rumsfeld, Bush,
Powell, et al.


Strangely similar to Powell, saying things that seem uncharacteristic
of him. We all know that the boss is always right, regardless
of our personal feelings, until we dump the boss for a new one.

At least Clark wants to close corporate tax loopholes. Current news:
Wall Street companies do not like him.
.

User: "Steven Douglas"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 16 Jan 2004 06:33:33 PM
"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Xns94725C5117BB1rrfkwrantispamattbic@204.127.204.17>...

Mitchell Kaufman <noonebutme@home.com> Spat the Words


Clark also talked about the ties between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, about
Saddam being a threat to the US and about the need to go it alone if
the UN wouldn't agree. In short, he sounded like Rumsfeld, Bush,
Powell, et al.

And Cohen, Clinton, Albright, et al from 1998 and beyond.


Strangely similar to Powell, saying things that seem uncharacteristic
of him. We all know that the boss is always right, regardless
of our personal feelings, until we dump the boss for a new one.

General Clark was retired when he gave this testimony before Congress.
His most recent boss was (and is) President Clinton.
.
User: "TonyZ2001"

Title: Re: Wesley Clark Calls for Probe on Iraq War 18 Jan 2004 07:33:55 AM

dsteven@flashmail.com

wrote:

"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<Xns94725C5117BB1rrfkwrantispamattbic@204.127.204.17>...

Mitchell Kaufman <noonebutme@home.com> Spat the Words

Clark also talked about the ties between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, about
Saddam being a threat to the US and about the need to go it alone if
the UN wouldn't agree. In short, he sounded like Rumsfeld, Bush,
Powell, et al.

And Cohen, Clinton, Albright, et al from >1998 and beyond.

Yep, too bad that most Liberals are ignorant of the facts.

Strangely similar to Powell, saying >>things that seem uncharacteristic
of him. We all know that the boss is >>always right, regardless
of our personal feelings, until we dump >>the boss for a new one.

General Clark was retired when he gave >this testimony before Congress.
His most recent boss was (and is) >President Clinton.

Thanks for pointing this out.
Tony
.






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