I think we can all agree that the world is in a sorry mess right now.
Since the attack against the USA on September 11we in the west have
invaded two countries. In the first the Muslim world had patience with
us as they felt the pain of America and saw it's right to retaliate as
a fair thing. Then the west was deceived into going to war against
Saddam Hussein. We, the Coalition of the Willing, went in there on
moral grounds, or so we thought. We went to rid the country of its
weapons of mass destruction, which we were told would be used against
us at any moment. That deception has been brought to light. The
secondary reason for going there was to rid a nation of a despot.
American and British troops have been proven to be just as heavy
handed in dealing with prisoners.
Now we have sabre rattling from some in the Arab world against us and
a weakened morale in the countries that sent troops there in the first
place. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that we in
the west, are considered decadent and weak by Muslim nations.
So what do you think will happen. Are we headed for a global war or do
you think that once the Coalition forces leave Iraq people will return
to just distrusting their neighbour and not bothering about the rest
of us.
Nova
.
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
30 May 2004 09:38:05 AM |
|
|
"Nova Carta" <reply@newsgroup.net> wrote in message
news:0oljb0ltq3bhf5s5ciot7s8kufbfm8rvc3@4ax.com...
So what do you think will happen. Are we headed for a global war or do
you think that once the Coalition forces leave Iraq people will return
to just distrusting their neighbour and not bothering about the rest
of us.
Nova
It's hard to say. Situations can be so volatile; unforeseen events can set
off unforeseen actions and reactions. So you generally talk about different
possibilities.
We can still hope that a government freely chosen by the people of Iraq can
flourish. There was no way for the common American or Brit to stop the
invasion but we we've all hoped that peace and freedom can take hold once
Saddam was tossed. It's probably more likely that a horrific civil war will
break out and you'll end up with another Saddam-type tyrant or an Islamic
extremist in control.
There will be serious terrorist attacks leading up to the American
elections. Al-Queda's stated aim is not just to make us bleed a bit, but to
destroy us economically. Will further attacks against America cause us to
rally behind the Bush Administration or throw them out?
There will be further investigation and revelation concerning the
"intelligence" and policies that led up to the invasion. Embarrassed media
institutions are delving into the machinations that manipulated public
support for the invasion. I suspect this will lead to a journalistic
feeding frenzy on the Bush Administration. I hope it does. Read the
following from an article that was published, actually buried, in the NY
Times on March 23, 2003.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/23/international/worldspecial/23CIA.html?ex=1086062400&en=f839addbf045479c&ei=5070
"C.I.A. Aides Feel Pressure in Preparing Iraqi Reports
By JAMES RISEN
WASHINGTON, March 22 - The recent disclosure that reports claiming Iraq
tried to buy uranium from Niger were based partly on forged documents has
renewed complaints among analysts at the C.I.A. about the way intelligence
related to Iraq has been handled, several intelligence officials said.
Analysts at the agency said they had felt pressured to make their
intelligence reports on Iraq conform to Bush administration policies.
For months, a few C.I.A. analysts have privately expressed concerns to
colleagues and Congressional officials that they have faced pressure in
writing intelligence reports to emphasize links between Saddam Hussein's
government and Al Qaeda."
These issues are being brought up in analyzing the mistakes made concerning
the invasion. It's only the beginning.
Too much hatred, too much passion out there to accurately predict what will
happen, how people will react. Only time will tell.
With the pressure on we'll have to make sure our hearts are right.
.
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| User: "MaxBlast36" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
30 May 2004 11:36:39 AM |
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Subject: Re: Where do you think this will all lead
From: " John F Lemke"
Date: 5/30/2004 10:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <J9WdnUh1mYbYbyTdRVn-uw@locallink.net>
"Nova Carta" <reply@newsgroup.net> wrote in message
news:0oljb0ltq3bhf5s5ciot7s8kufbfm8rvc3@4ax.com...
So what do you think will happen. Are we headed for a global war or do
you think that once the Coalition forces leave Iraq people will return
to just distrusting their neighbour and not bothering about the rest
of us.
Nova
It's hard to say. Situations can be so volatile; unforeseen events can set
off unforeseen actions and reactions. So you generally talk about different
possibilities.
We can still hope that a government freely chosen by the people of Iraq can
flourish. There was no way for the common American or Brit to stop the
invasion but we we've all hoped that peace and freedom can take hold once
Saddam was tossed. It's probably more likely that a horrific civil war will
break out and you'll end up with another Saddam-type tyrant or an Islamic
extremist in control.
There will be serious terrorist attacks leading up to the American
elections. Al-Queda's stated aim is not just to make us bleed a bit, but to
destroy us economically. Will further attacks against America cause us to
rally behind the Bush Administration or throw them out?
There will be further investigation and revelation concerning the
"intelligence" and policies that led up to the invasion. Embarrassed media
institutions are delving into the machinations that manipulated public
support for the invasion. I suspect this will lead to a journalistic
feeding frenzy on the Bush Administration. I hope it does. Read the
following from an article that was published, actually buried, in the NY
Times on March 23, 2003.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/23/international/worldspecial/23CIA.html?ex
=1086062400&en=f839addbf045479c&ei=5070
"C.I.A. Aides Feel Pressure in Preparing Iraqi Reports
By JAMES RISEN
WASHINGTON, March 22 - The recent disclosure that reports claiming Iraq
tried to buy uranium from Niger were based partly on forged documents has
renewed complaints among analysts at the C.I.A. about the way intelligence
related to Iraq has been handled, several intelligence officials said.
Analysts at the agency said they had felt pressured to make their
intelligence reports on Iraq conform to Bush administration policies.
For months, a few C.I.A. analysts have privately expressed concerns to
colleagues and Congressional officials that they have faced pressure in
writing intelligence reports to emphasize links between Saddam Hussein's
government and Al Qaeda."
These issues are being brought up in analyzing the mistakes made concerning
the invasion. It's only the beginning.
Too much hatred, too much passion out there to accurately predict what will
happen, how people will react. Only time will tell.
With the pressure on we'll have to make sure our hearts are right.
MaxBlast Wrote:
It has already been foretold by GOD and these things are going to escalate
before there will be peace restored to this world.
The tribulation of many will become the all consuming destruction that GOD
forewarned us about.
ALL will recognize what happens when those with ulterior motives get into
positions with Great Power.
I'm again offering you this information as this information is to help you
prepare.
Trust that GOD is fully aware of these things and those who do these things
will be dealt with according to their deeds!!!
When GOD brings his Wrath on these ignorant fools they will pay the price as
GOD has already forewarned them not to do these things yet, their self-serving
ways have ignored this warning so they...
Will Be Judged Accordingly.
WORD OF GOD!!!
War destroys what peace offers us all... Harmony amongst ourselves!!!
Brother Jon
.
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
|
| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
30 May 2004 11:49:56 AM |
|
|
"MaxBlast36" <maxblast36@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040530123639.00660.00000149@mb-m01.aol.com...
MaxBlast Wrote:
(While preaching to the choir, for the most part) :-)
It has already been foretold by GOD and these things are going to escalate
before there will be peace restored to this world.
The tribulation of many will become the all consuming destruction that GOD
forewarned us about.
ALL will recognize what happens when those with ulterior motives get into
positions with Great Power.
I'm again offering you this information as this information is to help you
prepare.
Trust that GOD is fully aware of these things and those who do these
things
will be dealt with according to their deeds!!!
When GOD brings his Wrath on these ignorant fools they will pay the price
as
GOD has already forewarned them not to do these things yet, their
self-serving
ways have ignored this warning so they...
Will Be Judged Accordingly.
WORD OF GOD!!!
War destroys what peace offers us all... Harmony amongst ourselves!!!
Brother Jon
.
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| User: "Cardinal Blunder" |
|
| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
14 Jun 2004 11:14:10 AM |
|
|
.... To the USA's destruction by fire in the form of nuke terrorism
pretty obvious isn't it? Why can't you see the obvious? If thats an
obvious future, why won't you warn people about it and help those who
are warning people about it?
Nova Carta wrote:
I think we can all agree that the world is in a sorry mess right now.
Since the attack against the USA on September 11we in the west have
invaded two countries. In the first the Muslim world had patience with
us as they felt the pain of America and saw it's right to retaliate as
a fair thing. Then the west was deceived into going to war against
Saddam Hussein. We, the Coalition of the Willing, went in there on
moral grounds, or so we thought. We went to rid the country of its
weapons of mass destruction, which we were told would be used against
us at any moment. That deception has been brought to light. The
secondary reason for going there was to rid a nation of a despot.
American and British troops have been proven to be just as heavy
handed in dealing with prisoners.
Now we have sabre rattling from some in the Arab world against us and
a weakened morale in the countries that sent troops there in the first
place. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that we in
the west, are considered decadent and weak by Muslim nations.
So what do you think will happen. Are we headed for a global war or do
you think that once the Coalition forces leave Iraq people will return
to just distrusting their neighbour and not bothering about the rest
of us.
Nova
.
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| User: "dreamwalker" |
|
| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
30 May 2004 05:32:11 PM |
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|
American and British troops have been proven to be just as heavy
handed in dealing with prisoners.
For Christ sake. Saddam used to drop children out of helicopters while the parents watched. Get your
head out of the lower orfice.
Now we have sabre rattling from some in the Arab world against us and
a weakened morale in the countries that sent troops there in the first
place. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that we in
the west, are considered decadent and weak by Muslim nations.
So what? They hated us before. They hate us after. Remember 9/11? They drew first blood. I'm in no
hurry to win a popularity contest for the ragheads of the world. The only thing that the Islam
nutcases understand is a body count.
So what do you think will happen. Are we headed for a global war or do
you think that once the Coalition forces leave Iraq people will return
to just distrusting their neighbour and not bothering about the rest
of us.
Where have you been? We're in a global war.
Nova
.
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| User: "R. Foreman" |
|
| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
30 May 2004 11:58:57 PM |
|
|
"dreamwalker" <backfromthe@dead.net> Spat the Words
American and British troops have been proven to be just as heavy
handed in dealing with prisoners.
For Christ sake. Saddam used to drop children out of helicopters while
the parents watched. Get your head out of the lower orfice.
Now we have sabre rattling from some in the Arab world against us and
a weakened morale in the countries that sent troops there in the
first place. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that
we in the west, are considered decadent and weak by Muslim nations.
So what? They hated us before. They hate us after. Remember 9/11? They
drew first blood. I'm in no hurry to win a popularity contest for the
ragheads of the world. The only thing that the Islam nutcases
understand is a body count.
Who is 'they' you are speaking of? Do you mean the couple thousand
al-qaeda, mostly uneducated, running around in an Afghan desert
with ak-47's ? Yeah, I think we took care of them already with
a couple of cluster bombs. Or do you speak of the other 3 Billion
muslims?
So what do you think will happen. Are we headed for a global war or
do you think that once the Coalition forces leave Iraq people will
return to just distrusting their neighbour and not bothering about
the rest of us.
Where have you been? We're in a global war.
That's what Bush wants you to believe... and you bought that fast
talk, hook, line, and sinker. Boy are you gullible.
Nova
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
02 Jun 2004 05:34:16 PM |
|
|
"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Xns94F9E9CB158FDrrfkwrantispamattbic@63.240.76.16>...
"dreamwalker" <backfromthe@dead.net> Spat the Words
American and British troops have been proven to be just as heavy
handed in dealing with prisoners.
For Christ sake. Saddam used to drop children out of helicopters while
the parents watched. Get your head out of the lower orfice.
Now we have sabre rattling from some in the Arab world against us and
a weakened morale in the countries that sent troops there in the
first place. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that
we in the west, are considered decadent and weak by Muslim nations.
So what? They hated us before. They hate us after. Remember 9/11? They
drew first blood. I'm in no hurry to win a popularity contest for the
ragheads of the world. The only thing that the Islam nutcases
understand is a body count.
Who is 'they' you are speaking of? Do you mean the couple thousand
al-qaeda, mostly uneducated, running around in an Afghan desert
with ak-47's ? Yeah, I think we took care of them already with
a couple of cluster bombs. Or do you speak of the other 3 Billion
muslims?
The Arab World sided with Hitler during World War II. The Grand Mufti
of Jerusalem spent a lot of time in Berlin, encouraging Hitler to
exterminate the Jews. The Arab World would have loved to see us
speaking German and shouting "Heil Hiter!" Hitler's book, Mein Kamph,
is a best seller in the Arab World to this day. I'd say they've hated
us for a long time, wouldn't you?
.
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
03 Jun 2004 08:20:20 AM |
|
|
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0406021434.1875b63d@posting.google.com...
"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<Xns94F9E9CB158FDrrfkwrantispamattbic@63.240.76.16>...
"dreamwalker" <backfromthe@dead.net> Spat the Words
American and British troops have been proven to be just as heavy
handed in dealing with prisoners.
For Christ sake. Saddam used to drop children out of helicopters while
the parents watched. Get your head out of the lower orfice.
Now we have sabre rattling from some in the Arab world against us and
a weakened morale in the countries that sent troops there in the
first place. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that
we in the west, are considered decadent and weak by Muslim nations.
So what? They hated us before. They hate us after. Remember 9/11? They
drew first blood. I'm in no hurry to win a popularity contest for the
ragheads of the world. The only thing that the Islam nutcases
understand is a body count.
Who is 'they' you are speaking of? Do you mean the couple thousand
al-qaeda, mostly uneducated, running around in an Afghan desert
with ak-47's ? Yeah, I think we took care of them already with
a couple of cluster bombs. Or do you speak of the other 3 Billion
muslims?
The Arab World sided with Hitler during World War II.
Really? So what about all the Arab/bedouin in North Africa who cheerfully
spied on the Afrika Korps and supplied the resulting information to the
French, British and later American troops who were fighting there?
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem spent a lot of time in Berlin, encouraging
Hitler to
exterminate the Jews.
This is true - religious leaders seemed happy to deal with Hitler for their
own ends. See the Catholic church for another example - does this mean that
catholics hate us as well?
The Arab World would have loved to see us
speaking German and shouting "Heil Hiter!"
So why the help in the North African campaign then? Curious way to achieve
that end don't you think?
Hitler's book, Mein Kamph,
"Kampf" actually.
is a best seller in the Arab World to this day.
Cite? Or did you just haul that "fact" out of your arse?
I'd say they've hated
us for a long time, wouldn't you?
What about the revolt against the Turks when the proto-Arabs fought on the
side of the British/Americans against the German/Turkish forces in WWI? Did
"they" hate us then?
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
03 Jun 2004 06:52:48 PM |
|
|
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:<c9n8eb$lpk$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
The Arab World sided with Hitler during World War II.
Really? So what about all the Arab/bedouin in North Africa who cheerfully
spied on the Afrika Korps and supplied the resulting information to the
French, British and later American troops who were fighting there?
Of course, there were Arabs who remained neutral and there were Arabs
who took one side or the other. For example Anwar Sadat, a future
leader of Egypt, worked to help the Germans. And the Mufti, who
actively supported Hitler, enjoyed great popular support in the Arab
World.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem spent a lot of time in Berlin, encouraging
Hitler to
exterminate the Jews.
This is true - religious leaders seemed happy to deal with Hitler for their
own ends. See the Catholic church for another example - does this mean that
catholics hate us as well?
Actually, the Catholic Church did not actively support Hitler. In
fact, the Pope spoke against the priciples of Nazism and secretly
worked to save the lives of Jews. It is possible the Catholic Church
didn't do as much as it could have, but it is unfair to draw a
comparison with Mufti's active participation in Hitler's holocaust.
The Arab World would have loved to see us
speaking German and shouting "Heil Hiter!"
So why the help in the North African campaign then? Curious way to achieve
that end don't you think?
The Mufti spoke for the majority of Arabs. When the war ended, he was
warmly received in Egypt. In addition, some Nazi war criminals were
also warmly received and granted safe haven in Egypt.
Hitler's book, Mein Kamph,
"Kampf" actually.
I knew that -- even posted it correctly in the past, but forgot ...
shows how much I care about that book.
is a best seller in the Arab World to this day.
Cite? Or did you just haul that "fact" out of your arse?
Mein Kampf for sale, in Arabic
By Sean O'Neill and John Steele
(Filed: 19/03/2002)
[quote] An Arabic translation of Hitler's Mein Kampf which has become
a bestseller in the Palestinian territories is now on sale in Britain.
Copies of the translation are understood to have been distributed to
London shops towards the end of last year and have been selling well.
In the preface, Luis al-Haj, the translator, states: "National
Socialism did not die with the death of its herald. Rather, its seeds
multiplied under each star." [end quote]
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/03/19/nmein19.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/03/19/ixhome.html
[quote] "It should come as no surprise that Arabic translations both
of Mein Kampf and of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, that
diabolic forgery, are best-sellers in the Arab world." [end quote]
Paul Johnson, National Review Online
http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/06may02/johnson050602.asp
I'd say they've hated
us for a long time, wouldn't you?
What about the revolt against the Turks when the proto-Arabs fought on the
side of the British/Americans against the German/Turkish forces in WWI? Did
"they" hate us then?
I don't remember mentioning WWI, so I don't see the significance of
your point. My point was that they didn't just recently start to hate
us. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem is considered by some to be the
Godfather of modern day terrorism.
.
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| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
04 Jun 2004 02:47:29 AM |
|
|
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0406031552.69c608d@posting.google.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:<c9n8eb$lpk$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
The Arab World sided with Hitler during World War II.
Really? So what about all the Arab/bedouin in North Africa who
cheerfully
spied on the Afrika Korps and supplied the resulting information to the
French, British and later American troops who were fighting there?
Of course, there were Arabs who remained neutral and there were Arabs
who took one side or the other.
Ah, so your comment about the "arab world" was something of a *****
generalistion then? THought so..
For example Anwar Sadat, a future
leader of Egypt, worked to help the Germans. And the Mufti, who
actively supported Hitler, enjoyed great popular support in the Arab
World.
So? Senator Joe Kennedy wanted the US to abandon its support for the UK and
pitch in with Hitler. He enjoyed great popular support in the US. Note that
NOWHERE do I try to extrapolate that this means the US was for Hitler.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem spent a lot of time in Berlin,
encouraging
Hitler to
exterminate the Jews.
This is true - religious leaders seemed happy to deal with Hitler for
their
own ends. See the Catholic church for another example - does this mean
that
catholics hate us as well?
Actually, the Catholic Church did not actively support Hitler.
I can show you a picture of one of their Cardinals inspecting SS troops with
Hitler and seig-heiling for all he's worth.
In fact, the Pope spoke against the priciples of Nazism and secretly
worked to save the lives of Jews.
Please give me a link to any condemnation of nazism issued by the pope
during WWII with particular reference to the Final Solution, if possible,
It is possible the Catholic Church
didn't do as much as it could have
It is certain, there was plenty of collaboration going on.
but it is unfair to draw a
comparison with Mufti's active participation in Hitler's holocaust.
*Active* participation? Hardly. As disgusting as his support for the
holocaust undoubtably was, he wasn't an active participant.
The Arab World would have loved to see us
speaking German and shouting "Heil Hiter!"
So why the help in the North African campaign then? Curious way to
achieve
that end don't you think?
The Mufti spoke for the majority of Arabs.
You are remarkably ignorant about Arab culture - I suspect this is the root
of you prejudice. Did Hitler speak for the majority of non-communist,
Western Europeans/Americans?
When the war ended, he was
warmly received in Egypt. In addition, some Nazi war criminals were
also warmly received and granted safe haven in Egypt.
And in South America - does this mean the South Americans hate us?
Hitler's book, Mein Kamph,
"Kampf" actually.
I knew that -- even posted it correctly in the past, but forgot ...
shows how much I care about that book.
I suspect it shows how much you care about accuracy
is a best seller in the Arab World to this day.
Cite? Or did you just haul that "fact" out of your arse?
Mein Kampf for sale, in Arabic
By Sean O'Neill and John Steele
(Filed: 19/03/2002)
[quote] An Arabic translation of Hitler's Mein Kampf which has become
a bestseller in the Palestinian territories is now on sale in Britain.
So you equate the Palestinian Territories (where it is hardly surprising to
find a bit of rancour towards the Jews) with the "Arab world" which
stretches from the West Coast of Africa to the Indian suncontinent?!
In the preface, Luis al-Haj, the translator, states: "National
Socialism did not die with the death of its herald. Rather, its seeds
multiplied under each star." [end quote]
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/03/19/nmein
19.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/03/19/ixhome.html
The Telegraph eh? Hmmm..
[quote] "It should come as no surprise that Arabic translations both
of Mein Kampf and of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, that
diabolic forgery, are best-sellers in the Arab world." [end quote]
Paul Johnson, National Review Online
http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/06may02/johnson05060
2.asp
By "cite" I meant a link to book sales figures rather than an opinion piece.
Just because you have found someone who spouts teh same crap you do doesn't
mkae it a fact.
I'd say they've hated
us for a long time, wouldn't you?
What about the revolt against the Turks when the proto-Arabs fought on
the
side of the British/Americans against the German/Turkish forces in WWI?
Did
"they" hate us then?
I don't remember mentioning WWI, so I don't see the significance of
your point.
You've said "they've hated us for a long time" , well, WWI isn't all that
long ago. The point is supremely relevant unless you just want to keep on
cherry-picking your examples.
My point was that they didn't just recently start to hate
us.
My point is "they" don't hate "us".Perhaps some of "them" have been conned
into hating "us" by ignorant rabble-rousers who spread half-truths and
prejudice? In whcih case "they" have equal grounds for complaint. I
certainly wouldn't feel comfortable looking at a list of all the stuff the
Western World has done to the Arab world which might make them feel that we
hate them, but I'm sure there's a Steven bin Douglas stirring the ***** over
there too.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem is considered by some to be the
Godfather of modern day terrorism.
Bizarre non-sequitor.
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
04 Jun 2004 07:50:01 PM |
|
|
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:<c9p9a8$jbg$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0406031552.69c608d@posting.google.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:<c9n8eb$lpk$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
The Arab World sided with Hitler during World War II.
Really? So what about all the Arab/bedouin in North Africa who
cheerfully
spied on the Afrika Korps and supplied the resulting information to the
French, British and later American troops who were fighting there?
Of course, there were Arabs who remained neutral and there were Arabs
who took one side or the other.
Ah, so your comment about the "arab world" was something of a *****
generalistion then? THought so..
I see. So are generalizations never appropriate? I'm sure there were
many anti-Hitler people in Germany, yet we routinely generalize
Germany as a Nazi nation during World War II. And I generalize the
Arab World as pro-Hitler during World War II, since their chief
spokesman spent most of the war at Hitler's side.
For example Anwar Sadat, a future
leader of Egypt, worked to help the Germans. And the Mufti, who
actively supported Hitler, enjoyed great popular support in the Arab
World.
So? Senator Joe Kennedy wanted the US to abandon its support for the UK and
pitch in with Hitler. He enjoyed great popular support in the US.
Hardly. First of all, Joe Kennedy was never a Senator. He bought
himself a couple of government jobs, including Ambassador to Great
Britain. In 1940, his desier to "appease" Hitler cost him his job, and
he was returned home.
Note that NOWHERE do I try to extrapolate that this means the US
was for Hitler.
Good thing, because I'd still be rolling on the floor laughing if you
had.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem spent a lot of time in Berlin,
encouraging Hitler to exterminate the Jews.
This is true - religious leaders seemed happy to deal with Hitler for
their
own ends. See the Catholic church for another example - does this mean
that
catholics hate us as well?
Actually, the Catholic Church did not actively support Hitler.
I can show you a picture of one of their Cardinals inspecting SS troops with
Hitler and seig-heiling for all he's worth.
There was a change of Pope in 1939, and that's the Pope I referred to
below. Understand that I am not defending every action by every Priest
or Cardinal. At the same time, Mufti actively recruited thousands of
Muslims in Bosnia-Herzgovina and Albania for the German SS.
In fact, the Pope spoke against the priciples of Nazism and secretly
worked to save the lives of Jews.
Please give me a link to any condemnation of nazism issued by the pope
during WWII with particular reference to the Final Solution, if possible,
Here are some articles, from various sources, on Pope Pius XII. As
some of the articles point out, he would have risked Hitler's wrath
for his Church in Germany if he had spoken out more forcefully. But
there is evidence he did quietly help many Jews. If you can see
yourself clear of your own anti-religion bigotry, you might see that.
Articles on Pope Pius XII and the Vatican Diplomacy during the II
World War
http://pioxii.150m.com/enartic.htm
It is possible the Catholic Church
didn't do as much as it could have
It is certain, there was plenty of collaboration going on.
Which you equate with Mufti ... why are you such an
anti-Jew/anti-Christian bigot, but you give a pass to someone like the
Nazi collaborator Mufti?
but it is unfair to draw a
comparison with Mufti's active participation in Hitler's holocaust.
*Active* participation? Hardly. As disgusting as his support for the
holocaust undoubtably was, he wasn't an active participant.
He spent most of the war in Berlin, encouraging Hitler to exterminate
the Jews. In exchange for making propaganda radio broadcasts for
Hitler and recruiting Muslims to the German SS, he got a "promise"
from Hitler to exterminate the Jews in the Palestine Mandate once the
war was over.
The Arab World would have loved to see us
speaking German and shouting "Heil Hiter!"
So why the help in the North African campaign then? Curious way to
achieve
that end don't you think?
The Mufti spoke for the majority of Arabs.
You are remarkably ignorant about Arab culture - I suspect this is the root
of you prejudice. Did Hitler speak for the majority of non-communist,
Western Europeans/Americans?
No comparison. Actually, it's an *absurd* comparsion.
When the war ended, he was
warmly received in Egypt. In addition, some Nazi war criminals were
also warmly received and granted safe haven in Egypt.
And in South America - does this mean the South Americans hate us?
Uh, haven't you been paying attention to Venezuela?
Hitler's book, Mein Kamph,
"Kampf" actually.
I knew that -- even posted it correctly in the past, but forgot ...
shows how much I care about that book.
I suspect it shows how much you care about accuracy
Looking back at some of your ridiculous assertions in this post, that
would apply to you.
is a best seller in the Arab World to this day.
Cite? Or did you just haul that "fact" out of your arse?
Mein Kampf for sale, in Arabic
By Sean O'Neill and John Steele
(Filed: 19/03/2002)
[quote] An Arabic translation of Hitler's Mein Kampf which has become
a bestseller in the Palestinian territories is now on sale in Britain.
So you equate the Palestinian Territories (where it is hardly surprising to
find a bit of rancour towards the Jews) with the "Arab world" which
stretches from the West Coast of Africa to the Indian suncontinent?!
So you can't imagine that book being very popular within the Arab
World? The Arab World that attacked Israel in 1948, 1967, and 1973?
The first Arabic translation of Mein Kampf was distributed to the Arab
World in 1938.
In the preface, Luis al-Haj, the translator, states: "National
Socialism did not die with the death of its herald. Rather, its seeds
multiplied under each star." [end quote]
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/03/19/nmein
19.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/03/19/ixhome.html
The Telegraph eh? Hmmm..
[quote] "It should come as no surprise that Arabic translations both
of Mein Kampf and of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, that
diabolic forgery, are best-sellers in the Arab world." [end quote]
Paul Johnson, National Review Online
http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/06may02/johnson05060
2.asp
By "cite" I meant a link to book sales figures rather than an opinion piece.
Why don't you look it up, and let me know what you find?
Just because you have found someone who spouts teh same crap you do doesn't
mkae it a fact.
I'd say they've hated
us for a long time, wouldn't you?
What about the revolt against the Turks when the proto-Arabs fought on
the
side of the British/Americans against the German/Turkish forces in WWI?
Did
"they" hate us then?
I don't remember mentioning WWI, so I don't see the significance of
your point.
You've said "they've hated us for a long time" , well, WWI isn't all that
long ago. The point is supremely relevant unless you just want to keep on
cherry-picking your examples.
My point was that they didn't just recently start to hate
us.
My point is "they" don't hate "us".Perhaps some of "them" have been conned
into hating "us" by ignorant rabble-rousers who spread half-truths and
prejudice? In whcih case "they" have equal grounds for complaint. I
certainly wouldn't feel comfortable looking at a list of all the stuff the
Western World has done to the Arab world which might make them feel that we
hate them, but I'm sure there's a Steven bin Douglas stirring the ***** over
there too.
If I had ever heard a large outcry of indignation from the Arab World
concerning 9/11, I'm sure I'd have a different outlook on all of this.
Before 9/11, I was just as enlightened as you (actually, I was
ignorant then -- have educated myself in this regard, and now I'm
"ignorant"). Read Thomas Friedman's most recent column in the New York
Times about Saudi Arabia, quoting a Saudi professor who wrote about
the "culture of death" that is taught in Saudi schools.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem is considered by some to be the
Godfather of modern day terrorism.
Bizarre non-sequitor.
The Mufti was Arafat's mentor. How about that, Arafat's PLO has roots
in Nazism. Maybe that's why Mein Kampf is so popular there.
.
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
07 Jun 2004 03:19:09 AM |
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Steven Douglas wrote:
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:c9p9a8$jbg$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
"Steven Douglas" dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0406031552.69c608d@posting.google.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:<c9n8eb$lpk$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
"Steven Douglas" dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
The Arab World sided with Hitler during World War II.
Really? So what about all the Arab/bedouin in North Africa who
cheerfully
spied on the Afrika Korps and supplied the resulting information to
the
French, British and later American troops who were fighting there?
Of course, there were Arabs who remained neutral and there were Arabs
who took one side or the other.
Ah, so your comment about the "arab world" was something of a *****
generalistion then? THought so..
I see. So are generalizations never appropriate?
Generally, no. ;-)
I'm sure there were many anti-Hitler people in Germany, yet we routinely
generalize
Germany as a Nazi nation during World War II.
Yet you haven't shown any evidence for the "Arab world" being pro-Hitler
other than a proclamation by
the Grand Mufti!
And I generalize the
Arab World as pro-Hitler during World War II, since their chief
spokesman spent most of the war at Hitler's side.
No, you generalise because you have an obvious prejudice against Muslims
and Arabs which prevents you from examining facts. The Grand Mufti did NOT
spend the war "at Hitler's side" this is more dishonesty from youl
For example Anwar Sadat, a future
leader of Egypt, worked to help the Germans. And the Mufti, who
actively supported Hitler, enjoyed great popular support in the Arab
World.
So? Senator Joe Kennedy wanted the US to abandon its support for the UK
and
pitch in with Hitler. He enjoyed great popular support in the US.
Hardly. First of all, Joe Kennedy was never a Senator.
Irrelevant - he was an influential political figure.
He bought himself a couple of government jobs, including Ambassador to
Great
Britain.
They were bought? Really? Funny how this example doesn't count merely
because it contradicts your prejudice..
In 1940, his desier to "appease" Hitler cost him his job, and
he was returned home.
He was still extremely popular and influential in the US
Note that NOWHERE do I try to extrapolate that this means the US
was for Hitler.
Good thing, because I'd still be rolling on the floor laughing if you
had.
Yet this is EXACTLY what you try to do in your argument re: Sadat!
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem spent a lot of time in Berlin,
encouraging Hitler to exterminate the Jews.
This is true - religious leaders seemed happy to deal with Hitler for
their
own ends. See the Catholic church for another example - does this
mean that
catholics hate us as well?
Actually, the Catholic Church did not actively support Hitler.
I can show you a picture of one of their Cardinals inspecting SS troops
with
Hitler and seig-heiling for all he's worth.
There was a change of Pope in 1939, and that's the Pope I referred to
below.
So what?
Understand that I am not defending every action by every Priest
or Cardinal. At the same time, Mufti actively recruited thousands of
Muslims in Bosnia-Herzgovina and Albania for the German SS.
Thousands of Danish, Norwegian, Dutch and even Britsh joined the SS - are
the Norwegians, Danish , British and Dutch your enemies too?
In fact, the Pope spoke against the priciples of Nazism and secretly
worked to save the lives of Jews.
Please give me a link to any condemnation of nazism issued by the pope
during WWII with particular reference to the Final Solution, if possible,
Here are some articles, from various sources, on Pope Pius XII. As
some of the articles point out, he would have risked Hitler's wrath
for his Church in Germany if he had spoken out more forcefully.
Failure to provide condemnation noted.
But there is evidence he did quietly help many Jews.
If you can see yourself clear of your own anti-religion bigotry, you might
see that.
Articles on Pope Pius XII and the Vatican Diplomacy during the II
World War
http://pioxii.150m.com/enartic.htm
It is possible the Catholic Church
didn't do as much as it could have
It is certain, there was plenty of collaboration going on.
Which you equate with Mufti
Hardly.-
... why are you such an
anti-Jew/anti-Christian bigot
Provide evidence of this bigotry or apologise.
, but you give a pass to someone like the
Nazi collaborator Mufti?
I'm not giving him a pass at all, you dishonest little *****, I have
condemned his anti-semitism. What I am saying, if you need it spelled out is
that extrapolation his attitude to label the entire Arab wolrd as pro-Hitler
is innacurate at best.
but it is unfair to draw a
comparison with Mufti's active participation in Hitler's holocaust.
*Active* participation? Hardly. As disgusting as his support for the
holocaust undoubtably was, he wasn't an active participant.
He spent most of the war in Berlin, encouraging Hitler to exterminate
the Jews.
So he wasn't an active participant - why did you lie?
In exchange for making propaganda radio broadcasts for
Hitler and recruiting Muslims to the German SS, he got a "promise"
from Hitler to exterminate the Jews in the Palestine Mandate once the
war was over.
The Arab World would have loved to see us
speaking German and shouting "Heil Hiter!"
So why the help in the North African campaign then? Curious way to
achieve
that end don't you think?
The Mufti spoke for the majority of Arabs.
You are remarkably ignorant about Arab culture - I suspect this is the
root
of you prejudice. Did Hitler speak for the majority of non-communist,
Western Europeans/Americans?
No comparison. Actually, it's an *absurd* comparsion.
Why? Please provide an argument to back up your assertion.
When the war ended, he was
warmly received in Egypt. In addition, some Nazi war criminals were
also warmly received and granted safe haven in Egypt.
And in South America - does this mean the South Americans hate us?
Uh, haven't you been paying attention to Venezuela?
So you DO believe the South Americans hate "us" too? LOL
Hitler's book, Mein Kamph,
"Kampf" actually.
I knew that -- even posted it correctly in the past, but forgot ...
shows how much I care about that book.
I suspect it shows how much you care about accuracy
Looking back at some of your ridiculous assertions in this post, that
would apply to you.
Which assertions, specifcally, did you find ridiculous?
is a best seller in the Arab World to this day.
Cite? Or did you just haul that "fact" out of your arse?
Mein Kampf for sale, in Arabic
By Sean O'Neill and John Steele
(Filed: 19/03/2002)
[quote] An Arabic translation of Hitler's Mein Kampf which has become
a bestseller in the Palestinian territories is now on sale in Britain.
So you equate the Palestinian Territories (where it is hardly surprising
to
find a bit of rancour towards the Jews) with the "Arab world" which
stretches from the West Coast of Africa to the Indian suncontinent?!
So you can't imagine that book being very popular within the Arab
World?
Total inability to counter my point noted..
The Arab World that attacked Israel in 1948, 1967, and 1973?
Non sequitor
The first Arabic translation of Mein Kampf was distributed to the Arab
World in 1938.
Non sequitor.
I repeat:
So you equate the Palestinian Territories (where it is hardly surprising to
find a bit of rancour towards the Jews) with the "Arab world" which
stretches from the West Coast of Africa to the Indian suncontinent?!
<snip>
Douglas tries to wriggle out of supporting his assertion that "Mein Kampf is
a best seller in teh Arab World".
[quote] "It should come as no surprise that Arabic translations both
of Mein Kampf and of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, that
diabolic forgery, are best-sellers in the Arab world." [end quote]
Paul Johnson, National Review Online
http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/06may02/johnson05060
2.asp
By "cite" I meant a link to book sales figures rather than an opinion
piece.
Why don't you look it up, and let me know what you find?
Ah. I see you don't understand debate - you made the assertion, YOU provide
the evidence.
What about the revolt against the Turks when the proto-Arabs fought
on the
side of the British/Americans against the German/Turkish forces in
WWI? Did
"they" hate us then?
I don't remember mentioning WWI, so I don't see the significance of
your point.
You've said "they've hated us for a long time" , well, WWI isn't all that
long ago. The point is supremely relevant unless you just want to keep on
cherry-picking your examples.
No answer?
My point was that they didn't just recently start to hate
us.
My point is "they" don't hate "us".Perhaps some of "them" have been
conned
into hating "us" by ignorant rabble-rousers who spread half-truths and
prejudice? In whcih case "they" have equal grounds for complaint. I
certainly wouldn't feel comfortable looking at a list of all the stuff
the
Western World has done to the Arab world which might make them feel that
we
hate them, but I'm sure there's a Steven bin Douglas stirring the *****
over
there too.
Evasion noted
If I had ever heard a large outcry of indignation from the Arab World
concerning 9/11
There was plenty. YOu just chose to fixate on the oft-reoeated footage of a
few Palestinians dancing in the street.
I'm sure I'd have a different outlook on all of this.
Before 9/11, I was just as enlightened as you (actually, I was
ignorant then -- have educated myself in this regard, and now I'm
"ignorant"). Read Thomas Friedman's most recent column in the New York
Times about Saudi Arabia, quoting a Saudi professor who wrote about
the "culture of death" that is taught in Saudi schools.
I have never regarded Saudi Arabia as a shining beacon of democracy or
common sense.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem is considered by some to be the
Godfather of modern day terrorism.
Bizarre non-sequitor.
The Mufti was Arafat's mentor.
Joe Kennedy was John F Kennedy's mentor.
How about that, Arafat's PLO has roots
in Nazism.
How about that, mdern American politics has its roots in Nazism.
Maybe that's why Mein Kampf is so popular there.
So you keep asserting, without any facts. Tell you what, you look up book
sales for Mein Kampf in whatever youo have decided counts as the "Arab
World" and I'll look up the sales figures for the US.
.
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| User: "Absolute Zero" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
07 Jun 2004 10:53:08 AM |
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"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:ca189i$3bj$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
Steven Douglas wrote:
[...]
Maybe that's why Mein Kampf is so popular there.
So you keep asserting, without any facts. Tell you what, you look up book
sales for Mein Kampf in whatever youo have decided counts as the "Arab
World" and I'll look up the sales figures for the US.
LOL - This is sooo reminiscent of set to I had with Jamie Gregorian a
few years back, nice guy but he argued anti-Semitism much like Steven,
as a propagandist. Haven't seen much of him since he was caught posing
as a Reverend.
Two consecutive samples...
==>
From: Absolute Zero (AmyCaton@GoFree.indigo.ie)
Subject: Re: US should NOT attack Iraq
View: Complete Thread (359 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.prophecies.nostradamus
Date: 2002-08-24 18:40:21 PST
I've found a whole 20 minutes to do a little ADL research, sign up for
google posting and knock up a reply to you. I've explained already why
it's utterly pointless engaging you in _debate_ regarding Israel but I
did want to respond to this particular piece of shite from you as it's
representative of your second-rate propaganda.
AMY
I've defended Europe as whole against the charge from you that
Europe as
whole was responsible for the holocaust. Ludicrous.
I've defended the UK and ROI from the charge of being cesspits of
anti-Semitic hatred. Ridiculous, show me the US figures.
JAMIE
Do your own homework, Amy. Countless anti-Semitic incidents and
societal acceptance of anti-Semitism and yet you still maintain that
Europe isn't the Jew-hating hole it has shown itself to be.
"Do your own homework" - I did, see below.
"Countless anti-Semitic incidents" - Countless as in infinite? Could
this be a gross exaggeration and misrepresentation? Not Jamie surely.
OK - Lets get to it...
http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/anti-semitism_global_incidents.asp
http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/audit_JanMay_2002.asp
Jan - May 2002
Ireland: 1 act of graffiti
0 incidents of violence
Total... 1
UK: 5 acts of vandalism
1 act of violence at a demonstration
Total... 6
USA: 435 acts of harassment (intimidation, threats and assaults)
191 acts of vandalism
Total... 626
Well, well, no wonder you didn't want to point me to the stats for the
USA.
Obviously population differences need to be factored in BUT... you've
managed to outdo even France by a factor of 15 with just a six fold
increase in population. So where exactly is it... this cesspit of
anti-Semitic hatred eh?
IIRC wasn't it in LA that a far-right nutcase ran into a Jewish day
care center (of all places) and sprayed bullets?
Do you still seek to paint THE WHOLE of Europe as a 'Jew-hating hole'?
Or has the US applied to join the EU without me noticing ;)
-A
<==
==>
gregorja@my-deja.com (Jamie Gregorian) wrote in message news:<86f422f3.0208271012.6f6c3eda@posting.google.com>...
AmyCaton@GoFree.indigo.ie (Absolute Zero) wrote in message news:<ad960a96.0208241740.651b2c7c@posting.google.com>...
Do your own homework, Amy. Countless anti-Semitic incidents and
societal acceptance of anti-Semitism and yet you still maintain that
Europe isn't the Jew-hating hole it has shown itself to be.
"Do your own homework" - I did, see below.
Good for you.
Point being that I needn't have bothered, my suspicions with regard to
the US stats, just like my suspicions with regard to the French stats
turned out correct. Though I'll admit I didn't expect you to outpace
the French for anti-Semitic incidents quite so thoroughly... and thus
didn't realise what a 'Jew-hating hole' the US actually is. Thanks for
forcing that realisation upon me by making me do the research ;-)
"Countless anti-Semitic incidents" - Countless as in infinite? Could
this be a gross exaggeration and misrepresentation? Not Jamie surely.
Or could you be trying to paint something as literal when it clearly
wasn't?
What exactly in this contribution of yours clearly indicates metaphor?
"Countless anti-Semitic incidents and societal acceptance of
anti-Semitism and yet you still maintain that Europe isn't the
Jew-hating hole it has shown itself to be."
If the seven incidents in the UK & ROI (the countries I have been
defending) or even the forty plus incidents in France, are to be
counted as countless, what adjective would you choose for the 626
incidents in the US? please-don't-look?
What IS clear is that you grossly exaggerate to tarnish the opposing
argument... I don't think it is working.
OK - Lets get to it...
http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/anti-semitism_global_incidents.asp
http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/audit_JanMay_2002.asp
Jan - May 2002
Ireland: 1 act of graffiti
0 incidents of violence
Total... 1
UK: 5 acts of vandalism
1 act of violence at a demonstration
Total... 6
USA: 435 acts of harassment (intimidation, threats and assaults)
191 acts of vandalism
Total... 626
Well, well, no wonder you didn't want to point me to the stats for the
USA.
I wanted you to do your own research.
Thank you, I now realise what a 'Jew-hating hole' the US is ;-)
Obviously population differences need to be factored in BUT... you've
managed to outdo even France by a factor of 15 with just a six fold
increase in population. So where exactly is it... this cesspit of
anti-Semitic hatred eh?
The EU in general and France in specific. Not to mention the member
states of the Arab League.
"The EU in general" is a bogus generalization, your own sources
illustrate the W-I-D-E variations found within the EU.
"and France in specific" which just proves my point about the
invalidity of "The EU in general" statement. LOL
"Not to mention the member states of the Arab League." Right, you
shouldn't have mentioned it in the context of European anti-Semitism.
So even though the figures indicate a Jew to be in greater danger in
the USA it is in fact the EU that's a cesspit of anti-Semitic
hatred... and the US is what? Countless cesspits ;-)
IIRC wasn't it in LA that a far-right nutcase ran into a Jewish day
care center (of all places) and sprayed bullets?
Yes. We have our problems here too.
Really? Would never have guessed!
Do you still seek to paint THE WHOLE of Europe as a 'Jew-hating hole'?
Or has the US applied to join the EU without me noticing ;)
What you're doing is taking the numbers and using them alone as a
guide. It's the culture that I also consider.
You started the numbers game m8, you pointed me to...
http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/anti-semitism_global_incidents.asp
Which shows a country by country breakdown of recorded incidents.
Apart from the USA, which appears to warrant its own page. Thanks for
not showing it to me.
http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/audit_JanMay_2002.asp
So NOW that your numbers game is up we're to flip to culture. Sorry,
but it won't wash. Am I to be amazed that you can find indicators of
apparent anti-Semitism amongst certain elite? Personally, I'd be far
more worried about what people do than what the French Ambassador was
quoted as saying. As before, not being a professional propagandist I
don't yet know where to go to find similar quotes for the USA, but
until I do you'll happily imply that no such culture exists.
Was it in Europe or the US where Jews were told not to wear any
outward signs of their religion for fear of being attacked?
Was it in Europe or the USA that bullets were sprayed in a Jewish
daycare center?
Was it Europe or the US that has had a wave of synagogue torchings?
http://www.adl.org/anti_semitism/audit_JanMay_2002.asp
Alameda, CA. - Arson at Temple. Serious damage caused.
Key West, Fl. - Significant damage caused by arson at Congregation
B'nai Zion.
To answer your lop-sided question directly... BOTH.
Was it in London or Washington where the French (big surprise)
Ambassador referrred to Israel as "that shitty little country" and its
inhabitants as "those people"?
So it's London's fault that the French Ambassador said... ?!?
"those people" - can you expand on this please, because in isolation
it doesn't really convey a sense of anything, least of all
anti-Semitism.
Was it in London or Washington where the outrage was not over the
comment but the hostess's indiscretion in revealing it and how common
such comments were?
Diplomats don't like being quoted unofficially as it undermines their
erm trade.
Was it the European media or the American media that featured a
cartoon of the baby Jesus, besieged by Israeli tanks, saying, "Don't
tell me they want to kill me again."
When you say "the European media" you mean ONE Italian newspaper. How
tall are you Jamie? 48'6" ?
Was it an Oxford academic or a Yale academic who posited in The
Guardian that not only should Israel not exist, but that Americans who
immigrate should be shot?
Tom Paulin is a very good poet but nobody I've met (of the tiny
percentage that've even heard of him) takes the slightest notice of
his political views. He says similar things about the UK government
and it's historical entanglements with Ireland to equivalent ho-hum.
And to be a little more precise than you'd like, he was getting
emotional about west-bank settlers rather than Americans per-se.
These all speak to the culture of where they happened. I'm guessing
you got 100% of the answers right on this one...
Wrong again. If you persist along these lines of culture is more
important than the actual numbers of people abused, beaten, murdered
etc, after I've finished laughing at you I'll endeavor to show exactly
the same, if not worse in the USA. Though I concede that with your
rampant political correctness and lack of real 'freedom of speech' it
might prove difficult, but I bet it's there all the same.
-A
<==
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
07 Jun 2004 07:52:15 PM |
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(Absolute Zero) wrote in message news:<8f290e5f.0406070753.eb5929a@posting.google.com>...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:ca189i$3bj$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
Steven Douglas wrote:
[...]
Maybe that's why Mein Kampf is so popular there.
So you keep asserting, without any facts. Tell you what, you look up book
sales for Mein Kampf in whatever youo have decided counts as the "Arab
World" and I'll look up the sales figures for the US.
LOL - This is sooo reminiscent of set to I had with Jamie Gregorian a
few years back, nice guy but he argued anti-Semitism much like Steven,
as a propagandist.
I'm too new here to remember Jamie. But if you care to respond to my
points, feel free.
.
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| User: "Absolute Zero" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
08 Jun 2004 01:22:34 PM |
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Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0406071652.33d448c2@posting.google.com...
amycaton@hotmail.com (Absolute Zero) wrote in message
news:<8f290e5f.0406070753.eb5929a@posting.google.com>...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:ca189i$3bj$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
Steven Douglas wrote:
[...]
Maybe that's why Mein Kampf is so popular there.
So you keep asserting, without any facts. Tell you what, you look up
book
sales for Mein Kampf in whatever youo have decided counts as the "Arab
World" and I'll look up the sales figures for the US.
LOL - This is sooo reminiscent of set to I had with Jamie Gregorian a
few years back, nice guy but he argued anti-Semitism much like Steven,
as a propagandist.
I'm too new here to remember Jamie. But if you care to respond to my
points, feel free.
No, no, you'll be busy enough as it is. If they can be found, you'll likely
lose on the "Mein Kampf" sales figures. This is the point of comparison with
the former discussion. Logs and splinters.
-A
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
08 Jun 2004 08:29:52 PM |
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(Absolute Zero) wrote in message news:<8f290e5f.0406081022.372e8e4b@posting.google.com>...
Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
I'm too new here to remember Jamie. But if you care to respond to my
points, feel free.
No, no, you'll be busy enough as it is. If they can be found, you'll likely
lose on the "Mein Kampf" sales figures. This is the point of comparison with
the former discussion. Logs and splinters.
Please explain, I'm interested.
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
09 Jun 2004 04:30:02 AM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0406081729.1d7cd6c6@posting.google.com...
amycaton@hotmail.com (Absolute Zero) wrote in message
news:<8f290e5f.0406081022.372e8e4b@posting.google.com>...
Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
I'm too new here to remember Jamie. But if you care to respond to my
points, feel free.
No, no, you'll be busy enough as it is. If they can be found, you'll
likely
lose on the "Mein Kampf" sales figures. This is the point of comparison
with
the former discussion. Logs and splinters.
Please explain, I'm interested.
I think her final comment stems from a Biblical parable (a very sensible,
non superstitous, non-savage one IMHO)
Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye,
but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine
eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then
shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. (KJV)
Read her previous post. Jamie claimed Europe was a "cesspool of
anti-semitism". and analysis of actual figures re: Anti-Semitic hate crimes
revealed that America outstripped even the worst offenders in Europe by a
considerable margin even taking population differences into account. It
would appear that if Europe was a "cesspool", on that evidence America was
the entire fucking sewage works and a large chunk of the North Sea. Or more
relevantly the mote was in Europe's eye and the beam was in Jamie's.
Similarly, you have tried to claim the Arab world is pro-Hitler using
(amongst other things) the assertion that Mein Kampf is a best seller "In
the Arab World" (this fact gleaned from sales figures in *The UK* and
anecdotal evidence about *Palestine* thereby ignoring at least 21 countries)
whereas I'm *fairly* certain it is as least , if not more of a best seller
in the US:
http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0395925037/itliteraturep-20/701-056522
5-7039565
Amazon rank it at 181 in their sales rank. Whatever that means. It is also
freely avaliable for free on the internet (presumably considerably less
members of the "Arab World" have internet access than USians.
Hope this helps..
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| User: "TonyZ2001" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
09 Jun 2004 10:59:12 AM |
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"tw"
wrote:
I think her final comment stems from a >Biblical parable (a very sensible,
non superstitous, non-savage one IMHO)
LOL!!!
Tommy Boy likes to pick out of the Bible only things that he agrees with.
Because Tommy is the sum of all intelligence. ;-)
Tony
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
10 Jun 2004 02:31:15 AM |
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"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040609115912.16194.00000830@mb-m15.aol.com...
"tw"
wrote:
I think her final comment stems from a >Biblical parable (a very
sensible,
non superstitous, non-savage one IMHO)
LOL!!!
Tommy Boy likes to pick out of the Bible only things that he agrees with.
LOL!
Because Tommy is the sum of all intelligence. ;-)
You could be to if you laid off the steroids, got an education, learned to
read properly and weren't so incredibly, mind-numbing stupid and bigoted.
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| User: "TonyZ2001" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
10 Jun 2004 08:34:50 AM |
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Tommy Boy has had his ***** whipped by Steven in this thread, yet he continues to
make moronic statements.
Tony
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
10 Jun 2004 08:54:38 AM |
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"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040610093450.07875.00000881@mb-m06.aol.com...
Tommy Boy has had his ***** whipped by Steven in this thread
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Where exactly? Steven snipped all the pionts that
contradicted his argument, then ran like a *****. Of course, seeing as
that's exactly what you do, no matter you regard it a victory!
On your way, sonny. LOL
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
11 Jun 2004 12:58:07 AM |
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"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:<ca9p2k$87v$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
Steven snipped all the pionts that contradicted his argument, then ran like a *****.
I'm not going anywhere. In fact, I plan on being around here for quite
awhile. I've had an excellent day today, but it's late, I'm tired and
I've still got a few more important things to do right now than delve
into this long, drawn out, trivial and repetitious debate with you.
Just for the moment, concerning your question about Jesus:
Since you asked ... Jesus has promised to return, and I responded to
another poster by telling him it is not that time yet -- other things
must happen first -- to which you responded by referring to me as
"superstitious savage."
Whatever, I really don't care what a bigot like you thinks. And unlike
you, I won't whine and complain and ask for an apology because I got
called a name. In fact, please don't apologize, because it wouldn't
mean a damn thing to me if you did.
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
11 Jun 2004 02:52:53 AM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0406102158.4c318c4b@posting.google.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:<ca9p2k$87v$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
Steven snipped all the pionts that contradicted his argument, then ran
like a *****.
I'm not going anywhere. In fact, I plan on being around here for quite
awhile. I've had an excellent day today, but it's late, I'm tired and
I've still got a few more important things to do right now than delve
into this long, drawn out, trivial and repetitious debate with you.
Hey, we can just reduce it to your main points if you like:
1) The arab world was for Hitler
Response: This is patently false - see help given to allies by Arabs in
Western desert
2) The arab world was for HItler because it never condemned the Mufti
THe Arab world DID condmen the mufti , he was sacked and exiled on his
return from Berlin.
3) The arab world is for HItler as "Mein Kampf" is a best seller there
...still waiting for proof of this assertion...
Let's limit it to those points, eh?
Just for the moment, concerning your question about Jesus:
Since you asked ... Jesus has promised to return, and I responded to
another poster by telling him it is not that time yet -- other things
must happen first -- to which you responded by referring to me as
"superstitious savage."
Well I withdraw the savage part then.
Whatever, I really don't care what a bigot like you thinks.
Coming form a bigot like you, that doesn't really bother me.
And unlike you, I won't whine and complain and ask for an apology
I was merely trying to make an honest person of you - I see you STILL can't
back up you raccustaion and don't have the balls to apologise. No wonder you
have found an ally in Tony!
because I got called a name.
No, because you lied.
In fact, please don't apologize, because it wouldn't
mean a damn thing to me if you did.
What on earth would I have to apologise for?
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
12 Jun 2004 12:39:25 AM |
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"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:<cabo8a$4nf$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0406102158.4c318c4b@posting.google.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:<ca9p2k$87v$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
Hey, we can just reduce it to your main points if you like:
1) The arab world was for Hitler
Response: This is patently false - see help given to allies by Arabs in
Western desert
You like to point to exceptions as if they are the rule.
2) The arab world was for HItler because it never condemned the Mufti
THe Arab world DID condmen the mufti , he was sacked and exiled on his
return from Berlin.
Another example of pointing to the exception (the King of Jordan) as
if it's the rule. For snubbing the Mufti, that King of Jordan was
assassinated ... which is what happened to Sadat after he dared to
make peace with Israel. Sadat was a true hero for making that attempt,
but unfortunately it cost him his life.
3) The arab world is for HItler as "Mein Kampf" is a best seller there
..still waiting for proof of this assertion...
I'd love to see the actual numbers. You know, during the 1930's there
were rumors about Stalin's purges in the Soviet Union. But there was
no proof, and many defenders of Stalin denied it was occurring. That's
what happens in closed and tyrannical societies.
Take Sudan, and the 21-year-long civil war there. The Arab government
of northern Sudan consistently denied the scope of the genocide it was
conducting in the south of Sudan. The actual numbers are still unknown
because the Arab government of Sudan refuses access to the media.
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
14 Jun 2004 02:15:47 AM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0406112139.7fb0af54@posting.google.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:<cabo8a$4nf$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2b35e99.0406102158.4c318c4b@posting.google.com...
"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:<ca9p2k$87v$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
Hey, we can just reduce it to your main points if you like:
1) The arab world was for Hitler
Response: This is patently false - see help given to allies by Arabs in
Western desert
You like to point to exceptions as if they are the rule.
From the man who admitted he equated the occupied terrritoires withe the
entire Arab World, this is hilarious!
Again, what do you base your "the arab world was for Hitler" ***** on?
Just the behaviour of the Mufti, apparently as you have presenetd no other
evidence.
2) The arab world was for HItler because it never condemned the Mufti
THe Arab world DID condmen the mufti , he was sacked and exiled on his
return from Berlin.
Another example of pointing to the exception (the King of Jordan) as
if it's the rule.
Again, what was the rule? And why ask if the Mufti was condemned, as if this
was an important point, then wriggle out of it when it turns out he was? And
doesn't the fact taht one part of the ArawbWorld can do one thing while
another part does another lead you to doubt your ***** generalisations?
For snubbing the Mufti, that King of Jordan was
assassinated
BWHAHAHAHA! And your proof of that is?! How come subsequent kings of Jordan
also snubbed the mufti (and survived) if it was such a death sentence?
.. which is what happened to Sadat after he dared to
make peace with Israel. Sadat was a true hero for making that attempt,
but unfortunately it cost him his life.
So? Rabin was assassinated for daring to try and make peace with the
Palestinians. Rabin was a true hero for making that attempt,but
unfortunately it cost him his life. This is irrelevant to your "The Arab
World was for Hitler" statement.
3) The arab world is for HItler as "Mein Kampf" is a best seller there
..still waiting for proof of this assertion...
I'd love to see the actual numbers.
So would I! Then you might actually have a case. Again, what do you base
this ***** about it being as best- seller on? Uncorroborated accounts?
Opinion pieces? Your imagination?
You know, during the 1930's there
were rumors about Stalin's purges in the Soviet Union. But there was
no proof, and many defenders of Stalin denied it was occurring. That's
what happens in closed and tyrannical societies.
LOL! So the fact that there were purges under Stalin proves Mein Kampf is a
best seller in whatever you have decided the Arab World means? Lame, Steven,
lame.
Take Sudan, and the 21-year-long civil war there. The Arab government
of northern Sudan consistently denied the scope of the genocide it was
conducting in the south of Sudan. The actual numbers are still unknown
because the Arab government of Sudan refuses access to the media.
And this proves that Mein Kampf sells more copies in the Arab World than in
the US how, exactly?
At least you've dropped you "anti- christian" and "anti-Jew lies, I will
take that as a de-facto apology.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Where do you think this will all lead |
15 Jun 2004 01:30:51 AM |
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"tw" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:<cajj6n$bnn$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>...
"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
You like to point to exceptions as if they are the rule.
From the man who admitted he equated the occupied terrritoires withe the
entire Arab World, this is hilarious!
Again, what do you base your "the arab world was for Hitler" ***** on?
Just the behaviour of the Mufti, apparently as you have presenetd no other
evidence.
Well, you probably won't like this -- but I think ANY government that
wasn't AGAINST Hitler, and didn't FIGHT Hitler, thereby supported
Hitler by omission.
Another example of pointing to the exception (the King of Jordan) as
if it's the rule.
Again, what was the rule? And why ask if the Mufti was condemned, as if this
was an important point, then wriggle out of it when it turns out he was? And
doesn't the fact taht one part of the Ara | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
